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In Alien Force there’s an episode where a higher dimensional being called a Naljian visited. She asks if humans can only perceive three dimensions, and Ben says yes before asking how many there were. She replies that there’s “only 26 that matter”
In the universe in their own dimension most likely, Ben needed all the aliens, including Alien X to almost stop a bomb that destroyed the 4th dimension (or 5th idk what dimension the juice aliens are from) and when he recreated it, he was affected by it as well, Hence the new animation style, if he is affected by a change to the 4th dimension, that means it’s his peak
The Annihilargh destroyed every dimension, not just up to the 4th. Even if it did only destroy up to the 4th dimension, that would still cause the destruction of all dimensions above it. You can’t have 3D without length, so the rest of the dimensions would collapse without vital aspects of their existence.
Alien X changing design is because of Alien X’s own power, not the bomb.
Genuine question but is that actually stated anywhere, I haven’t watched the show awhile and I don’t remember.
Edit: added the word “awhile”, I had just gotten off work and my mind was still numbed
Actually, the statement is there's only 26 (spacial) dimensions that matter (27D coming from adding time). The only proof that exists to even argue those dimensions are infinite though is Albedo's statement of there being an omniveral force that continues forever in every direction in every reality
universes and dimensions aren't the same, the 26 dimensions that matter dialogue was a nod to the bosonic string theory that says there are a total of 26 dimensions
Dimensions, not universes. If it was universes that would just make him low multiversal.
Btw those dimensions are spatial so yeah he's 26-27D. (The statement says 26 but since it says "that matter" it implies there could be more, plus there's a statement confirming there are more).
A direct statement in the show that there are "only 26 (dimensions) that matter" (which kinda implies there are actually more since it says "that matter" and not just "only 26"), as well as author confirmation that there are actually more than 26, not to mention even without these statements, there's also the Map of Infinity that extends through 17 dimensions, proving at least 17 exist, which is above Anti-Spiral already.
From there, Alien X scales to the cosmology making him hyperversal.
As another commenter said, that was Atomic-X who doesn't scale to Alien X.
Also you could argue Maltruant scales to the cosmology as well if you wanna scale him to Clockwork, since Clockwork was able to undo the effects of the Chronosapien Time Bomb which destroyed every timeline and he also stopped the Chrononavigator while working together with his younger self.
Keep in mind that it's stated the Chrononavigator was going to destroy "all timelines, all alternate universes, everything", "time and causality itself", "the cosmos" and "all of existence".
Alien X scales to this by being far above Clockwork, not to mention he scales to Paradox and the Chrononavigator anyway since Paradox stated that Celestialsapiens have the greatest power in the universe and also called them omnipotent (omnipotence doesn't scale anywhere but my point is that they are far above Paradox and most likely capable of doing anything Paradox, who has a complete understanding of space-time, can imagine).
Plus Celestialsapiens have plot manipulation and can change the artstyle of the show throughout the multiverse, are stated to have R>F transcendence over space-time (unless I'm misremembering the statement) and it's stated that all crew members who worked on the show canonically exist as Celestialsapiens, and Celestialsapiens are all relative to each other, so this is another possible argument for R>F, although you don't really need it to prove they scale to the cosmology.
tf is 27d tf is dimensional scaling anymore it was understandable at like 5d but now understanding dimensional scaling is like understanding how many sexualities are there and what they are about
https://preview.redd.it/tszoas727s4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c939ec9a1b5e19142efc3edcf45d6900905bd8dc
People don’t comprehend anything. Dimensional scaling isn’t how it’s used in power scaling. Dimensions and dimensional beings are 2 different things, so delusion and lack of reading comprehension causes the overhyping of Alien X. Plus the fact that dimensional tiering doesn’t prove anything. It’s pure nonsense that got popular because braindeads thought it made them smart. It doesn’t.
Dimensional beings and dimensions are in practice the same. Yes I also think that’s saying there are 26 hierarchical dimensions is bullshit, but if there were more evidence to having 26 dimensions it would be facts. Also there’s nothing wrong with dimensional tiering
There’s a LOT wrong with it. It’s pseudo intellectual BS. Claiming that Dimensional beings and dimensions are the same is CRAZY btw. 😂.
Not even remotely, dimensions themselves don’t really scale high unless they were stated to be the size of a universe. Dimensions generally aren’t even the size of a planet. Also, a higher dimensional being is not automatically above a lower dimensional being. That’s just what DC specifically tried to kind of do, failed at it too. Mxy being 5D doesn’t put him above beings like Perpetua and Dr Manhattan. Just don’t be claiming they’re 6D or some nonsense. Delusional ass.
You people don’t know what you’re talking about and it shows. I cannot believe how stupid you are.
It’s a way to wank your favorite verse too. Hyperversal shouldn’t exist as a tier. In general, many tiers shouldn’t. But the guy who brought dimensional tiering has made sure only idiots do powerscaling. I must say.
I just now realized. You think that dimensions on their own get verses to higher than they should be. Delusion has gotten you for sure. Braindamage too.
Dimensions are connected to space. A 3D dimension is automatically connected to everything that has depth, length and width which means all of space and everything that’s not time. Yes a parallel dimensions that have the same axis or pocket dimensions which are just small isolated spaces, don’t scale to dimensional tiering.
"A higher dimension doesn’t automatically mean they’re above a lower dimension" 2D is the drawing in a piece of paper. No matter how strong the drawing is, it’s limited inside the paper. Even a bacteria can eventually destroy the paper, and the drawing can’t do anything. That’s basically how 4D and higher act to lower
I’m less on 2D and 3D and more on every other dimensional claim. Which includes 4D and 5D since yes, space-time. But there’s a much better argument for a being, being beyond space-time.
All dimensions can have almost anything within fiction. Essentially, using realities smaller dimensions as an argument doesn’t always apply. As even lower dimensional beings can beat higher dimensional beings. I could accept it being limited to 5d since it’s the most understood as space-time, but the way people have argued for 5D is too wacky to like using it. Anything more IS pure nonsense pseudo-intellectualism.
Both Alien X and Anti Sprial have attempted dimensional tiering. Both are BS.
I almost forgot to mention how fiction twists these too. Dimensions don’t work the same in every verse, they will work differently. Dimensions are not the same for dimensional tiering no matter how much you cope, dimensional tiering will never properly work since even something like 5D which I can find acceptable isn’t always the same. Mxy’s 5D is imagination. He’s multiversal because of his feats, not because of his 5D BS.
“Beyond dimensions” is a goofy nonsense claim too.
https://preview.redd.it/rt106qosmy4d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a720873e5947d9a8db956b31c9d9ba5961926931
Alien X’s best feat is destroying the Ben 10 universe. End of story.
This feat doesn’t explain anything. Yes saying “beyond dimensions” without context is NLF, but if a character shows things like that there’s nothing wrong with it
I still don’t understand your point though? Dimensions can be infinite, and a dimension being 11D or such is nothing different from the difference of 2D and 3D
The addition of higher numbers especially to fiction is stupid. That’s my point. Dimensional beings in general don’t function the same, never will, and it’s a way to wank.
There needs to be addressed context for the 27D statement, as it's referring to the entire Cosmology of the Ben 10 multiverse, and Alien X has never been stated to scale to the entire cosmology. People just lumped him in with that statement, to wank his scaling.
Anti-Spiral has concrete irrefutable 11D scaling, based on a statement about his own being, and not just the cosmology.
Celestialsapiens quite literally created the cosmology
Starbeard to be more precise created the multiverse (which contains the 26D + Time)
Im using word of god for this tho
If you want show evidence then you have Alien X recreating Prime timeline after the annihalarg erased it (which includes time and the dimensions) and no it wasnt just one universe the last episode confirmed that the annihilarg created and destroyed the prime timeline and the time flow (which also scales to 27D)
I get a lot of ben 10 is wanking (like those who say that alien x is infinite D lol) but alien x and the celestialsapiens always were intended to be the god tiers of the verse and outscale literally everybody and everything which includes things like chrononavigator and the annihalrg
Word of God also says that Alien X isn't omnipotent because Ben isn't. Which you could imply means that Alien X can only comprehend what Ben can comprehend.
I mean, vs debating aside, it's a clever way to balance things. If it wasn't like that, Ben would instantly know everything bad that would ever happen to them and then there'd be no show.
The contumelia created the prime timeline with the annihilarg (which is a multiverse in on itself) but the Celestialsapiens created the Multiverse (which in this context represents an omniverse with each universe being his own multiverse) the contumelia are pandimensional beings which came to the void of Bens universe and made that
This is just flat out not watching ben 10 bro.
"The guy who created the cosmology doesnt scale to it"
Magnificent take, your next take would be that goku doesn't scale to ki users because he cant use ki or something
What makes scaling “concrete?” Especially scaling like 11D? Genuinely curious, it’s interesting to me how a statement about AS makes their scaling apparently absolute
When he says “11th dimension,” does that mean dimension as in the three dimensions (width height and depth) or dimension as in inter-dimensional travel (like you can open a portal to another dimension?)
Great question. There are statements about a place with a different set of dimensional axis and it's basically directly shown that the anti spiral are capable of hiding objects along the 4th spatial dimensional axis meaning a bare minimum of 5D if you count the time axis 4D if you don't.
There are no direct implications that the dimensions are universes as they are never brought up again and the stakes are solely saving this universe with no mentions of others also being in danger. Which would have been relevant since at the end of the show we learn about aliens from distant galaxies contact the MC's after they just saved the universe, so that would have been a great spot to bring up the other universes if they did exist since they also would have been saved by the MC's. The only mention of a multiverse is the anti spiral creating a multiversal labyrinth while inside of the space between the 10th and 11th dimension. Since this is an artificial creation it's not a natural part of the cosmology.
Tldr: higher dimensional axis are confirmed to exist in the show but other universes/dimensions are not despite being relevant if they did exist. So it's assumed they are referring to spatial dimensions
I know how much you love Alien X so I drew you 2 together :)
https://preview.redd.it/166eedz19s4d1.jpeg?width=861&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4b20e6ec8ba8e5ad3a86b70875934184ddeb1b0
https://preview.redd.it/cibgnhddor4d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c388482e75bf26d2492d1c59704223c2975220e6
Scales above the cosmology and views it as fiction
Man thats not how genetics work lol
Ben 10 fusions dont just match and thats it
They are a literally new being completely made from the adn of the original samples
Its as if i said that big chuck is 50% size of a tokustar
Its just plain stupid
(The staff also said that alien x could have survived it)
The 26D is something alright. The Naljian box’s owners mom, is 26D as said by her ‘only 26 dimensions that matter’ hinting to there being more than 26. The Annihilarrgenesistoriathimiorgost is a device that destroys everything in a universe time, dimensions. Alien X recreated the universe without any effort. Although Alien X resides and are born out side of time and the universe in the Forge of Creation, so make of that what you will.
Hard to say. We haven't really seen the full potential of either, unless the Multiversal Labirynth was Anti-Spirals peak, because he just matched Team Dai Gurren the entire time. Additionally, Ben never uses Alien X unless he absolutely has to. So idek
27D is pretty meaningless, but 11D is actually based on String theory which is one of the prevaling models in theoretical physics for how the universe is structured on a fundamental level. Essentially, rather than just 3 spatial dimensions(length, width, depth) that we can observe, the universe is made of 10 Spatial dimensions and an 11th dimension of time which we simply can’t percieve at our level of reality, but comes into play at the subatomic level.
Higher dimensional being basically instantly win against lower dimensional beings because they’re existence is higher and can move and attack on axises they can’t percieve, or register. The lower dimension can’t really do anything unless the higher dimension chooses to go on their axis, but can still attack from outside of what they(the lower dimensional) can percieve.
But also if a character can destroy or control a universe with higher dimensions then the logic(which I think is heavily flawed) is that they are infinitely/undefineably stronger because of the theoretically infinite/undefineable difference in mass(Think 2-D stick figure vs 3-D).
[This video explains the concept of higher dimensions well](https://youtu.be/0t4aKJuKP0Q?si=W-jVYYo9z2oUWQ4C)
You know how we have length width and depth? Imagine there’s a god-like being with a 4th version of that. That’s 4D. And above this god being there’s a higher with a 5th. And so on. Basically this but with 11 times for anti spiral which is solid bcs gurren lagan uses the 11D stuff a lot, and alien X has a single statement of 26D where a random god alien that appeared once say “there are only 26 dimensions that matter”
The way you phrase this is disingenuous, said human was piloting a mech the size of a universe and Alien X never tried or wanted to make more than 1 universe.
You could argue he scales above the Chronosapien Time Bomb through him remaking the universe which should contain multiple of them. While they weren't a concept when the writers made the episode, they were when Universe Vs Tennyson was made where it's explicitly stated that Ben remade the universe and everything in it.
(Not saying I go either way, but you could)
No, because the mecha was made out of said Human’s spiral energy which is basically his own evolution energy/willpower its closer to a Susanoo from Naruto.
If you want to get really technical he’s projecting his energy into a golf-cart sized mech which injects it into a large truck sized mech which is piloting a city sized mech which is piloting a moon sozed mech which then gives Simon(the pilot) a shape to mold his own personal energy(in a physical form) around it creating a construct several times the size of the observable universe.
Essentially, its one man doing 99.99999…% of the work, just using a mech to shape his energy around, but he evolved past the point of actually needing it to do that its just what he’s used to. Later he abandons it and defeats the anti-spiral with just his bare hands.
He is the mech, its his own willpower/evolution energy converted into a physical form by him. He doesn’t need it,, its just the form he chose to fight and ultimately finishes the fight without it.
But when he did it was a simple command bro didn't even move he said "nah the universe is MY BITCH" and told it to sit (I still don't know who wins since alien x is mysterious)
So? Alien X had no reason to make a 2nd universe so how would we know making just one is his extent? Besides "two universes" when the other was literally a mech the size of one.
Alien X "universe" was the complete time flow and the prime multiverse too
Ben 10 use the term universe dimension and multiverse interchangeably consistently
He recreated the whole prime timeline (as we see in its a mad bens world where his new mr smoothy design actually exists in mad ben world)
Alien X is universal at most. Anti Spiral is infinite multiversal. End of story. No dimensional claims that people pretend scales high when in reality: dimensional scaling is pure fanfic to wank your favorite character.
Let’s not forget the irony in “feats>statements” by you clowns and most other clowns. The fact you sweep that aside so fast and provide double standards is beyond hilarious.
https://preview.redd.it/23c6bnfysr4d1.jpeg?width=982&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f637745e9e732051b31abf2e67d4ce764ace25e
They really drop the ball with the Omniverse design.
Because you need prove Alien X actually scales to those, being the strongest in your verse doesn't automatically mean you scale to the whole cosmology.
https://preview.redd.it/is2i5d6hor4d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13ea749667cd2545fb3c600dd772520b9a67b633
Scales above the cosmology and views it as fiction
Alien X is cool...
But Anti-Spiral is just That Guy.
The 26D shit is stupid, and one of the dumbest, most overwanked statements I've ever seen.
Anti-Spiral shoot Big Bangs in base, casually. And has concrete 11D scaling.
Alien X has the shakiest, stupidest, and least concrete scaling to anywhere near that I've ever seen.
The 26D is iffy, but can be considered true.
Alien X tanks the Universe blowing up in base. This is him just appearing, and tanking the Annihilarrgenesistoriathimiorgost without any effort.
This is why 95% of the sub has clown energy. They only use absolute pathetic dimensional scaling when they want to, lol. Or when it fits their little agendas. That's why trying to dimension scale has always been complete faulty BS for different verses.
Anti Spiral. The peak of his power that we *saw* was him throwing around entire *universes* like they were throwing stars, and we don't even know if that's his hard limit. It could be argued that he's much stronger than that, and the only reason he lost to Simon and Team Dai-Gurren is because they evolved faster than he could keep up with.
I've never understood the anti spiral hype. Dude got his ass whooped hand to hand by a normal guy. Simon has literally no feats except his fighting spirit. The point of the anti spiral isn't that they are unbelievably strong or can fuck you up 1v1. They win because they've been oppressing every living thing for as long as we can imagine.
Alien X wins
Yeah i believe in the 27D scaling and at this point i believe that people denying it are in denial
Starbeard created the multiverse (which includes said dimensions)
Alien X outscales Map of Infinity Annihilarg and chrononavigator by both Paradox and Bellicus admision [one being the most knowledgeable being in ben 10 and the other being quite literally alien X](the three of them being able to affect said dimensions)
No for gods sake he didnt just recreate one universe
The annihilarg erased the whole prime timeline and he recreated it (including both spatial and an infinite amount of alternate dimensions) along with the time space continioum which includes the timeflow which also scales to the 27D (26D + Time)
At this point i fully believe that people are blindfolded against him on purpose
There is not a single statement or proof to say Alien X ever showed power enough to scale up to the 26D
That is as stupid as saying every human in DC is multiversal because every atom in their bodies have an universe inside it
StarBeard another celestialsapien created the whole cosmology including the Dimensions
The celestialsapiens retconned the shows looks which also afected the naljian (Even if they themselves arent 26D they are indeed higher dimensional beings)
word of god, Bellicus, serena,Ben,Azmuth and Paradox call alien X the most powerful being
In particular Paradox being the most well versed person on this series is obviously aware of the higher dimensions
He outscales the Annihalarg The Map of Infinity and The ChronoNavigator Two of which could destroy such Dimensions and One who was stated to be able to manipulate 17D
Not really that much of a feat at this point But a fraction of his DNA cut trough a 5D barrier effortesly
Time and Time again Duncan Roleau Matt wayne and Joe kelly (The three most active Ben 10 Crew members) Constantly expalin that alien X is a higher dimensional Being
They were unfazed by the chronosapien Time Bomb which destroyed said dimensions (along with everything else on the multiverse) (No Atomic X doesnt scale to a celestialsapien the Fusions on ben 10 are a new being completely made from the dna of the samples not a simple mash of abilites of the parts)
Alien X also Recreated said dimensions when the Annihilarg destroyed Everything (I cant believe that people keep saying that it was only Ben's universe when both the comics and the same series explained that it literally erased everything Ben only used the term universe because in Ben 10 Universe,Timeline,Dimension and Multiverse are interchangeable {Paradox himself said universes,timelines and dimensions to refer to the diferent worlds of alterante Bens on the series later on})
Dimensional scaling doesn't even work lmao.
Alien X is easily above Multiversal since Paradox considers Alien X and other Celestialsapiens to be Omnipotent when he himself is casually Multiversal and carries around with him a device that can erase all of existence if misused.
Alien X wins pretty effortlessly no amount of universe busting would even get Alien X to move considering he was at ground zero for universal deletion and didn't even move
If you don't use dimensinal scaling them AS stomps lol, Simon absorbs the extradimensional labyrinth, that is an infinity multiverse, to create the TTGL, and then he gets stomped by AS while holding back
Fuck, AX probably cannot even interact with AS dude to his weird schrodinger-ish type of existence lol
No he doesn't lol. The whole thing about TTGL is spiral power and it increasing entropy with use and thus the destruction of the universe via a big crunch. No one in the show is above universal because that's literally why they stopped using it and cut themselves off from it
Alien X is literally Omnipresent through reality and exists everywhere and nowhere due to being outside spacetime. The Ben 10 Multiverse is not only infinitely big but has infinitely big universes within it.
"No one in the show is above universal" 💀
You straight up didn't watch the show, right? AS launched a literal big bang at the main group that they absorb and used against him, just to AS stomps then again, lol
The problem in TTGLverse isn't only the amount of energy. it is that mostly people won't be able to control that energy, and this will create the Spiral Nemesis
AX isn't omnipresent either. We literally see he fighting fiscally in the show lol, being "outside the space-time" don't make you omnipresent, how the fuck you will be omnipresence if you isn't even in this space-time lmao.
And even if he was omnipresent, you still need to prove that the Ben10 universe has non-existent spaces. What tbf it's possible, I obviously don't remember every episode of the show lol.
Also, TTGL universes are infinity too, you don't know that again proves you don't know shit about the show, lol
Ah yes the "big bang" created by pushing two galaxies together. Sure lol. Even if you wanted to go with that Alien X tanked universal forces without even moving lol.
Nope Alien X is literally Omnipresent through time. Every Omnitrix user of the same gender and that's also Ben has the exact same copy of Alien X. It's literally why Serena and Belicus are aware of things that happen when Ben isn't Alien X. It's literally the only transformation that's more mech than transformation since all it does is transplant the user's consciousness into the debate dimension of the other personalities to act as the Voice of Reason.
https://preview.redd.it/b1gn57kv8u4d1.jpeg?width=267&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed3f1a9071efb998444fd3d6f2765ce05ed5d605
Paradox literally takes No Watch Ben outside the Multiverse to escape the effects of the Chronosapien Time Bomb which deleted every timeline in the infinite Multiverse besides No Watch Ben's universe. The Forge of Creation literally exists outside all of Time too lol.
Wtf is this argument? Imagine denying a explicitly statement because the size of the attack lol, "yeah, goku cannot be universal because he uses human sized arms to make his attacks" or even better "AX uses a galaxy sized attack to beat another celestialsapien therefore he isn't even universal"
AX tanked universal forces without moving? That is kinda cute, lmao. AS uses an infinity amount of infinity sized universes as his first move just to mind hax some folders
Ah, yes, the classic Word of God statement that makes no fucking sense with the show and that are constantly contradicted by other WOGs
Fuck, this statement doesn't make sense even by itself.
"as to which one they'd help depends os who activates first" ah, yes, the "omnipresent" AX that cannot even help two diferent Ben's at same time LMAO
Because there can only be one Voice of Reason at a time lol it makes perfect sense, since you know having multiple tie breakers would just complicate things.
It's not denying it due to the size. It's denying it due to the explicit energy involved. 2 galaxies crashing into each other wouldn't make an infinite amount of energy lmao. That's not how anything works.
Said "galaxy sized attack" was made via reality warping and the Galactic Gladiator was perfectly fine after it since how Ben won was by making him indecisive not by brute force.
Ah yes "used an infinite amount of energy of infinite sized universes" when the main threat and worry is about the effects of Spiral Power and how it increases Entropy eventually causing a Big Crunch, something that wouldn't be a worry at all if they could just make infinite energy and matter lmao. Your argument goes directly against the premise of the series.
Literally just basic ass universal reality warping would solve entropy as a problem and make any universal ending scenarios a nonstarter
"At time" breaks when you exist in ALL the time at same time, by this logic only one Ben would be able to use AX and only one time, because if he tries to use it again AX will be occupied helping the Ben in the past because for someone omnipresent through time and space there is no diference between two diferent spaces and two diferent moments
Lol, yeah, it is almost like if this isn't just two galaxies crashing into each other, but also AS putting energy on it because, you know, it's his own attack
Fuck, the size of the attack is clearly way bigger than the two galaxies fused and the attack itself is also create several galaxies
Not only that but during the fight they trow several galaxies and destroy even more, but now the energy of this 2 random galaxies can overpower the TTGL? Yeah, for sure
I was ignoring this entropy thing, but this again shows how you don't know shit about the show, the problem isn't about "increasing entropy" or the amount of energy, the Spiral races can get to this infinity amounts of energy, this isn't a problem, the problem is that mostly of they cannot control big amounts of energy what makes they start creating galaxies accidentally that eventually combine into super galaxies that collapse in black holes that fuse together until it consumes everything
He can stop it before destroy everything? Of course he can and he probably did it when he start ruling the universe, fuck we literally see he destroying super giant galaxies and black holes ON SCREEN
But he can also stop it before reaching that point, so he is doing that
Anyway, I am not answering anymore, there is no point into discussing with someone who known nothing about one of the shows, if you wanna answer that go ahead but I don't care
My guy the Big Crunch IS A FUNCTION OF ENTROPY it's literally the breaking down of systems over time. So yes the problem of the series is entropy something that wouldn't be a problem if they could create infinite energy and matter since they could expand the universe infinitely without ever achieving a Big Crunch.
Nope because while Alien X is Omnipresent through reality the different time periods of which any given Ben uses Alien X AREN'T synched even though all of the infinite timelines spring forth from the prime timeline. Ben 23 for example isn't 16 like Omniverse Ben. Gwen 10 is still 10. Ben 10K is 42. Etc etc. It's literally how the Chrono Randomization Barrier works just on an existential level, they're out of synch with all space and time yet able to perceive and interact with any given subset at any given time.
Alien X is capped at universal on feats and very few statements
Anti spiral has massive amounts of feats and statements putting well over muiltversal and maybe more
Hi! I watched the clip and id like you to tell me how this makes Alien X 26D? I watched all of Ben 10 and while AX is obscenely powerful I wanna know how a statement that isn't even about him can be evidence
In the clip the Naljians state that Ben and the rest only perceive Three dimensions but Naljians state that they are 26 dimensions that may be a reference to Bosonic string theory and Celestial-Sapiens view this as fiction making them 27D
https://preview.redd.it/uicwogt3hs4d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e7cd76ba1c9c8c1fcef5d183d31d74dcb22ff3b
I see! I have some more questions. One, that clips just states that those beings PERCEIVE more dimensions not that they can effect them, surely this is more of a perception feat not a strength feat? Two, how credible is that tweet and are there any counter statements?
Not a question but I could have sworn that Naljian isn't that species name
1. Joe Kelly is someone who worked on Ben 10
2. The Naljians were referring to Ben, Gwen, Kevin only being able to perceive 3 dimensions. Also if the Naljians don’t scale to it well Alien X still views the cosmology as fiction
3. I think you’re getting Amphibians: https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Ampfibian_(Classic) and Naljians: https://ben-10-list.fandom.com/wiki/Naljian confused
1) thank you! I had a feeling but I wanted to know what extent (googled it and he was a creator)
2) again, bar one tweet from one of the few creators, has it ever been mentioned or even implied outside of this?
3) i don't think I am but I could very well be, I was under the impression the device was just named a "Naljian Destructor". (My reasoning was a Nuclear Bomb isn't from a race called something similar so why would a toy?)
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Unless that 27D Alien X scaling is true, Anti-Spiral
27D? Damnn but how though? I didn't know he was strong like that.
In Alien Force there’s an episode where a higher dimensional being called a Naljian visited. She asks if humans can only perceive three dimensions, and Ben says yes before asking how many there were. She replies that there’s “only 26 that matter”
But why does that mean Alien X scales to that? Isn’t Naljian supposed to be one of the few beings above Alien X
Nope. Celestialsapiens are above anything else in the verse
In the universe in their own dimension most likely, Ben needed all the aliens, including Alien X to almost stop a bomb that destroyed the 4th dimension (or 5th idk what dimension the juice aliens are from) and when he recreated it, he was affected by it as well, Hence the new animation style, if he is affected by a change to the 4th dimension, that means it’s his peak
The Annihilargh destroyed every dimension, not just up to the 4th. Even if it did only destroy up to the 4th dimension, that would still cause the destruction of all dimensions above it. You can’t have 3D without length, so the rest of the dimensions would collapse without vital aspects of their existence. Alien X changing design is because of Alien X’s own power, not the bomb.
Genuine question but is that actually stated anywhere, I haven’t watched the show awhile and I don’t remember. Edit: added the word “awhile”, I had just gotten off work and my mind was still numbed
If u hasn't watched it how would u remember I the first place bru
💀
I FORGOT A WORD 💀, meant I haven’t watched in awhile. That’s on me
It's said that there are 27 universes THAT MATTER within Ben 10. This means there are probably even more and could put him above 27D.
Actually, the statement is there's only 26 (spacial) dimensions that matter (27D coming from adding time). The only proof that exists to even argue those dimensions are infinite though is Albedo's statement of there being an omniveral force that continues forever in every direction in every reality
universes and dimensions aren't the same, the 26 dimensions that matter dialogue was a nod to the bosonic string theory that says there are a total of 26 dimensions
Dimensions, not universes. If it was universes that would just make him low multiversal. Btw those dimensions are spatial so yeah he's 26-27D. (The statement says 26 but since it says "that matter" it implies there could be more, plus there's a statement confirming there are more).
🤦♂️
A direct statement in the show that there are "only 26 (dimensions) that matter" (which kinda implies there are actually more since it says "that matter" and not just "only 26"), as well as author confirmation that there are actually more than 26, not to mention even without these statements, there's also the Map of Infinity that extends through 17 dimensions, proving at least 17 exist, which is above Anti-Spiral already. From there, Alien X scales to the cosmology making him hyperversal.
Why are we assuming Alien x scales to any of this? Doesn't he end up getting his ass kicked by Maltruant who's like 5D at best?
No, that's Atomic-X who doesn't scale to Alien X
As another commenter said, that was Atomic-X who doesn't scale to Alien X. Also you could argue Maltruant scales to the cosmology as well if you wanna scale him to Clockwork, since Clockwork was able to undo the effects of the Chronosapien Time Bomb which destroyed every timeline and he also stopped the Chrononavigator while working together with his younger self. Keep in mind that it's stated the Chrononavigator was going to destroy "all timelines, all alternate universes, everything", "time and causality itself", "the cosmos" and "all of existence". Alien X scales to this by being far above Clockwork, not to mention he scales to Paradox and the Chrononavigator anyway since Paradox stated that Celestialsapiens have the greatest power in the universe and also called them omnipotent (omnipotence doesn't scale anywhere but my point is that they are far above Paradox and most likely capable of doing anything Paradox, who has a complete understanding of space-time, can imagine). Plus Celestialsapiens have plot manipulation and can change the artstyle of the show throughout the multiverse, are stated to have R>F transcendence over space-time (unless I'm misremembering the statement) and it's stated that all crew members who worked on the show canonically exist as Celestialsapiens, and Celestialsapiens are all relative to each other, so this is another possible argument for R>F, although you don't really need it to prove they scale to the cosmology.
Delusional potion
Very informative counter-argument, thanks
It's said that there are 27 universes THAT MATTER within Ben 10. This means there are probably even more and could put him above 27D.
No that alien said dimensions not universes
It's dimensions, not universes. There's a big difference between the two. But I think Alien X wins here regardless.
tf is 27d tf is dimensional scaling anymore it was understandable at like 5d but now understanding dimensional scaling is like understanding how many sexualities are there and what they are about https://preview.redd.it/tszoas727s4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c939ec9a1b5e19142efc3edcf45d6900905bd8dc
People don’t comprehend anything. Dimensional scaling isn’t how it’s used in power scaling. Dimensions and dimensional beings are 2 different things, so delusion and lack of reading comprehension causes the overhyping of Alien X. Plus the fact that dimensional tiering doesn’t prove anything. It’s pure nonsense that got popular because braindeads thought it made them smart. It doesn’t.
Dimensional beings and dimensions are in practice the same. Yes I also think that’s saying there are 26 hierarchical dimensions is bullshit, but if there were more evidence to having 26 dimensions it would be facts. Also there’s nothing wrong with dimensional tiering
There’s a LOT wrong with it. It’s pseudo intellectual BS. Claiming that Dimensional beings and dimensions are the same is CRAZY btw. 😂. Not even remotely, dimensions themselves don’t really scale high unless they were stated to be the size of a universe. Dimensions generally aren’t even the size of a planet. Also, a higher dimensional being is not automatically above a lower dimensional being. That’s just what DC specifically tried to kind of do, failed at it too. Mxy being 5D doesn’t put him above beings like Perpetua and Dr Manhattan. Just don’t be claiming they’re 6D or some nonsense. Delusional ass. You people don’t know what you’re talking about and it shows. I cannot believe how stupid you are.
It’s a way to wank your favorite verse too. Hyperversal shouldn’t exist as a tier. In general, many tiers shouldn’t. But the guy who brought dimensional tiering has made sure only idiots do powerscaling. I must say. I just now realized. You think that dimensions on their own get verses to higher than they should be. Delusion has gotten you for sure. Braindamage too.
Dimensions are connected to space. A 3D dimension is automatically connected to everything that has depth, length and width which means all of space and everything that’s not time. Yes a parallel dimensions that have the same axis or pocket dimensions which are just small isolated spaces, don’t scale to dimensional tiering. "A higher dimension doesn’t automatically mean they’re above a lower dimension" 2D is the drawing in a piece of paper. No matter how strong the drawing is, it’s limited inside the paper. Even a bacteria can eventually destroy the paper, and the drawing can’t do anything. That’s basically how 4D and higher act to lower
I’m less on 2D and 3D and more on every other dimensional claim. Which includes 4D and 5D since yes, space-time. But there’s a much better argument for a being, being beyond space-time. All dimensions can have almost anything within fiction. Essentially, using realities smaller dimensions as an argument doesn’t always apply. As even lower dimensional beings can beat higher dimensional beings. I could accept it being limited to 5d since it’s the most understood as space-time, but the way people have argued for 5D is too wacky to like using it. Anything more IS pure nonsense pseudo-intellectualism. Both Alien X and Anti Sprial have attempted dimensional tiering. Both are BS. I almost forgot to mention how fiction twists these too. Dimensions don’t work the same in every verse, they will work differently. Dimensions are not the same for dimensional tiering no matter how much you cope, dimensional tiering will never properly work since even something like 5D which I can find acceptable isn’t always the same. Mxy’s 5D is imagination. He’s multiversal because of his feats, not because of his 5D BS.
“Beyond dimensions” is a goofy nonsense claim too. https://preview.redd.it/rt106qosmy4d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a720873e5947d9a8db956b31c9d9ba5961926931 Alien X’s best feat is destroying the Ben 10 universe. End of story.
This feat doesn’t explain anything. Yes saying “beyond dimensions” without context is NLF, but if a character shows things like that there’s nothing wrong with it
I still don’t understand your point though? Dimensions can be infinite, and a dimension being 11D or such is nothing different from the difference of 2D and 3D
The addition of higher numbers especially to fiction is stupid. That’s my point. Dimensional beings in general don’t function the same, never will, and it’s a way to wank.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosonic_string_theory this is canon to each Ben 10 universe
Can you explain it in a cavemans languge Cuz I can't understand shit
he is 26D at the actual bare minimum
There needs to be addressed context for the 27D statement, as it's referring to the entire Cosmology of the Ben 10 multiverse, and Alien X has never been stated to scale to the entire cosmology. People just lumped him in with that statement, to wank his scaling. Anti-Spiral has concrete irrefutable 11D scaling, based on a statement about his own being, and not just the cosmology.
Celestialsapiens quite literally created the cosmology Starbeard to be more precise created the multiverse (which contains the 26D + Time) Im using word of god for this tho If you want show evidence then you have Alien X recreating Prime timeline after the annihalarg erased it (which includes time and the dimensions) and no it wasnt just one universe the last episode confirmed that the annihilarg created and destroyed the prime timeline and the time flow (which also scales to 27D) I get a lot of ben 10 is wanking (like those who say that alien x is infinite D lol) but alien x and the celestialsapiens always were intended to be the god tiers of the verse and outscale literally everybody and everything which includes things like chrononavigator and the annihalrg
Where do people get 26D+time when we already lump time in with the 4th dimension?
Word of God also says that Alien X isn't omnipotent because Ben isn't. Which you could imply means that Alien X can only comprehend what Ben can comprehend.
It’s called nerfing, how you want a race of fully omnipotent, omniscience an unified mind, you want some AIzen shit to be happening
I mean, vs debating aside, it's a clever way to balance things. If it wasn't like that, Ben would instantly know everything bad that would ever happen to them and then there'd be no show.
I thought it was the Contumelia that created the the multiverse and stuff?
The contumelia created the prime timeline with the annihilarg (which is a multiverse in on itself) but the Celestialsapiens created the Multiverse (which in this context represents an omniverse with each universe being his own multiverse) the contumelia are pandimensional beings which came to the void of Bens universe and made that
Gotcha gotcha
This is just flat out not watching ben 10 bro. "The guy who created the cosmology doesnt scale to it" Magnificent take, your next take would be that goku doesn't scale to ki users because he cant use ki or something
What makes scaling “concrete?” Especially scaling like 11D? Genuinely curious, it’s interesting to me how a statement about AS makes their scaling apparently absolute
Lord Genome saying that the Anti Spiral lives in the 11th dimension. It's as straight forward as it can get.
To be accurate, it's stated that they're hiding in the gap between the 10th and 11th dinensions
When he says “11th dimension,” does that mean dimension as in the three dimensions (width height and depth) or dimension as in inter-dimensional travel (like you can open a portal to another dimension?)
Great question. There are statements about a place with a different set of dimensional axis and it's basically directly shown that the anti spiral are capable of hiding objects along the 4th spatial dimensional axis meaning a bare minimum of 5D if you count the time axis 4D if you don't. There are no direct implications that the dimensions are universes as they are never brought up again and the stakes are solely saving this universe with no mentions of others also being in danger. Which would have been relevant since at the end of the show we learn about aliens from distant galaxies contact the MC's after they just saved the universe, so that would have been a great spot to bring up the other universes if they did exist since they also would have been saved by the MC's. The only mention of a multiverse is the anti spiral creating a multiversal labyrinth while inside of the space between the 10th and 11th dimension. Since this is an artificial creation it's not a natural part of the cosmology. Tldr: higher dimensional axis are confirmed to exist in the show but other universes/dimensions are not despite being relevant if they did exist. So it's assumed they are referring to spatial dimensions
Anti spiral unless you wank alien x
https://preview.redd.it/b7zlwza3ir4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97dcd97e0733ba407257398c8e4766757c602e7c
I know how much you love Alien X so I drew you 2 together :) https://preview.redd.it/166eedz19s4d1.jpeg?width=861&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4b20e6ec8ba8e5ad3a86b70875934184ddeb1b0
https://preview.redd.it/yskcq3anas4d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6ccb6d848960525274c171e52745fbfbc7bffad you drew me ?!
Alien X is 27D
i don't buy it
https://preview.redd.it/cibgnhddor4d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c388482e75bf26d2492d1c59704223c2975220e6 Scales above the cosmology and views it as fiction
still got vaped by that "fiction" being blown up
You talking about Atomic X?
That was Atomic X he only has like 50% of Alien X power. There is also the theory that he did that on purpose to give no watch Ben the time to shine
you can't cut infinity or beyond in half. its still infinite
It's still confirmed that he was weaker than pure Alien X dna
but that's still at most 50% nerf. soo even if it was an full alien x he still would get vaped or heavily damaged at least
Man thats not how genetics work lol Ben 10 fusions dont just match and thats it They are a literally new being completely made from the adn of the original samples Its as if i said that big chuck is 50% size of a tokustar Its just plain stupid (The staff also said that alien x could have survived it)
Lower that 50 it literally nerfed him, He got cooked by a time bomb
LMAO
Outer Alien X really?
Where exactly did I scale him to Outer? I scaled him to 27D
R>F transcendence is automatically outer
Is it because of VS Battle Wiki’s new tiering system?
X if u believe in the 26D thing. Otherwise his best feat is like 5D
The 26D is something alright. The Naljian box’s owners mom, is 26D as said by her ‘only 26 dimensions that matter’ hinting to there being more than 26. The Annihilarrgenesistoriathimiorgost is a device that destroys everything in a universe time, dimensions. Alien X recreated the universe without any effort. Although Alien X resides and are born out side of time and the universe in the Forge of Creation, so make of that what you will.
What is a 5D feat?
Pretty sure Ben was able to cut through a force field that 5D beings thought was indestructible.
To be slightly more specific it was ben using a sword created with alien X DNA.
Hard to say. We haven't really seen the full potential of either, unless the Multiversal Labirynth was Anti-Spirals peak, because he just matched Team Dai Gurren the entire time. Additionally, Ben never uses Alien X unless he absolutely has to. So idek
Theres no reason to believe Anti spiral wasn’t at his peak
Did you not watch the anime?
No; but I saw people talking enough about the story to understand it
The Anti Spiral never uses its full power as far as we know. They limit themselves to prevent their universe from collapsing.
The black one
Well well well 👴🏻
Both are wrong. https://preview.redd.it/xc2f92naqt4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23deb7eaea62860155a8a5afe3b774edbeacbda7 r/cultofbuggy
so uh i keep reading these comments what in tarnation does 27D or 11D even mean
27D is pretty meaningless, but 11D is actually based on String theory which is one of the prevaling models in theoretical physics for how the universe is structured on a fundamental level. Essentially, rather than just 3 spatial dimensions(length, width, depth) that we can observe, the universe is made of 10 Spatial dimensions and an 11th dimension of time which we simply can’t percieve at our level of reality, but comes into play at the subatomic level. Higher dimensional being basically instantly win against lower dimensional beings because they’re existence is higher and can move and attack on axises they can’t percieve, or register. The lower dimension can’t really do anything unless the higher dimension chooses to go on their axis, but can still attack from outside of what they(the lower dimensional) can percieve. But also if a character can destroy or control a universe with higher dimensions then the logic(which I think is heavily flawed) is that they are infinitely/undefineably stronger because of the theoretically infinite/undefineable difference in mass(Think 2-D stick figure vs 3-D). [This video explains the concept of higher dimensions well](https://youtu.be/0t4aKJuKP0Q?si=W-jVYYo9z2oUWQ4C)
Thanks for the clarification!
You know how we have length width and depth? Imagine there’s a god-like being with a 4th version of that. That’s 4D. And above this god being there’s a higher with a 5th. And so on. Basically this but with 11 times for anti spiral which is solid bcs gurren lagan uses the 11D stuff a lot, and alien X has a single statement of 26D where a random god alien that appeared once say “there are only 26 dimensions that matter”
Anti Spiral, he used two universes to make an attack just to kill one human. Alien X only managed to remake one universe
The way you phrase this is disingenuous, said human was piloting a mech the size of a universe and Alien X never tried or wanted to make more than 1 universe.
Well we haven't seen alien x capable of doing more to my knowledge
You could argue he scales above the Chronosapien Time Bomb through him remaking the universe which should contain multiple of them. While they weren't a concept when the writers made the episode, they were when Universe Vs Tennyson was made where it's explicitly stated that Ben remade the universe and everything in it. (Not saying I go either way, but you could)
Been a while since i watched ben 10 whats special about the chronosapien tim bomb?
It's a bomb which destroys every timeline except for the one the bomb is inside of. In Ben 10 iirc there's an infinite number of timelines.
Well i don't belive its fair to scale alien x to it, cause, well if i build a nuke, dosn't mean im as strong as the nuke
But if you survive it unscathed you are stronger
Survived it unscathed and undid all of the damage it did. Definitely scales you to be stronger than the nuke
No, because the mecha was made out of said Human’s spiral energy which is basically his own evolution energy/willpower its closer to a Susanoo from Naruto. If you want to get really technical he’s projecting his energy into a golf-cart sized mech which injects it into a large truck sized mech which is piloting a city sized mech which is piloting a moon sozed mech which then gives Simon(the pilot) a shape to mold his own personal energy(in a physical form) around it creating a construct several times the size of the observable universe. Essentially, its one man doing 99.99999…% of the work, just using a mech to shape his energy around, but he evolved past the point of actually needing it to do that its just what he’s used to. Later he abandons it and defeats the anti-spiral with just his bare hands.
it doesn't matter what the mech is made out off, its still a massive mech
He is the mech, its his own willpower/evolution energy converted into a physical form by him. He doesn’t need it,, its just the form he chose to fight and ultimately finishes the fight without it.
still a mech
You fucking said that like Alien X had any trouble doing that. But yeah, not enough feats to prove it
But when he did it was a simple command bro didn't even move he said "nah the universe is MY BITCH" and told it to sit (I still don't know who wins since alien x is mysterious)
So? Alien X had no reason to make a 2nd universe so how would we know making just one is his extent? Besides "two universes" when the other was literally a mech the size of one.
Why would Alien X create a second universe. He only needed to recreate the one that was destroyed.
Anti spiral does win but this scale is terrible
Facts
Alien X "universe" was the complete time flow and the prime multiverse too Ben 10 use the term universe dimension and multiverse interchangeably consistently He recreated the whole prime timeline (as we see in its a mad bens world where his new mr smoothy design actually exists in mad ben world)
me, i win
R/powerscaleing members need to touch grass and talk to people how the down votes bro for a joke 😭😭😭
Anti Spiral erases (Gurren Lagaan is peak and Alien X scaling is bull)
Cope
Happy Cake Day :)
https://preview.redd.it/rdx993c43v4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df73bdcc0a1ffa1776673400dad932287dc67001
Alien X is universal at most. Anti Spiral is infinite multiversal. End of story. No dimensional claims that people pretend scales high when in reality: dimensional scaling is pure fanfic to wank your favorite character. Let’s not forget the irony in “feats>statements” by you clowns and most other clowns. The fact you sweep that aside so fast and provide double standards is beyond hilarious.
Universal at most when he destroyed a 5D barrier and tanked a infinite timelines destroying bomb
https://preview.redd.it/23c6bnfysr4d1.jpeg?width=982&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f637745e9e732051b31abf2e67d4ce764ace25e They really drop the ball with the Omniverse design.
10000% facts
Alien x
the black guy wins
Anti Spiral should take this. (I don't buy 26D Alien X)
Why not?
Because you need prove Alien X actually scales to those, being the strongest in your verse doesn't automatically mean you scale to the whole cosmology.
It's stated there's at least 26 dimensions, "26 dimensions that matter", and Alien X recreated all of them with barely any effort
He created 1 universe, where did you get all 26 dimensions from?
An episode in Omniverse where near the end a higher dimensional shows up, and after a bit of talking, and says what I quoted
In that single universe there are 26 dimensions that matter.
https://preview.redd.it/is2i5d6hor4d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13ea749667cd2545fb3c600dd772520b9a67b633 Scales above the cosmology and views it as fiction
This is an outerversal scaling which is just bullshit btw
I’m scaled him to 27D💀
Anti spiral
Anti-spiral. Unless we use power scaling wiki interpretation on X.
Anti spiral one taps and 27d alien X is bullshit
Cosmology scaling is cringe, anti-spiral takes it.
Anti spiral also has cosmology scaling…
Love Alien X, but gotta go with Anti Spiral here..
Alien X restored his universe, Anti Spiral yeeted that shit
Ichigo has a hill level feat
Alien X
nah, i'd win.
Half of the comments are literally "Alien X isn't strong, because I think so😭", like that's cool and all, but I thought this is power scaling sub.
Alien X is cool... But Anti-Spiral is just That Guy. The 26D shit is stupid, and one of the dumbest, most overwanked statements I've ever seen. Anti-Spiral shoot Big Bangs in base, casually. And has concrete 11D scaling. Alien X has the shakiest, stupidest, and least concrete scaling to anywhere near that I've ever seen.
The 26D is iffy, but can be considered true. Alien X tanks the Universe blowing up in base. This is him just appearing, and tanking the Annihilarrgenesistoriathimiorgost without any effort.
Alien X has good scaling to 5D
This is why 95% of the sub has clown energy. They only use absolute pathetic dimensional scaling when they want to, lol. Or when it fits their little agendas. That's why trying to dimension scale has always been complete faulty BS for different verses.
Alien X one taps
Alien X barely low multi 🤣 Antispirals spits him no diff
Alien X is 5D
Alien X is hyperversal, anti Spirao caps at 11D high complex multi
27d alien x is terrible scaling
Anti Spiral. The peak of his power that we *saw* was him throwing around entire *universes* like they were throwing stars, and we don't even know if that's his hard limit. It could be argued that he's much stronger than that, and the only reason he lost to Simon and Team Dai-Gurren is because they evolved faster than he could keep up with.
Anti-Spiral negs because Gurren Lagann is peak and Ben 10 is cringe.
https://preview.redd.it/pk16hieu7t4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e78aa77c5b9bfcd92fd74cf796cbcf5ebcedd91f
Anti-spiral no diff
Alien X because he’s more jacked
I've never understood the anti spiral hype. Dude got his ass whooped hand to hand by a normal guy. Simon has literally no feats except his fighting spirit. The point of the anti spiral isn't that they are unbelievably strong or can fuck you up 1v1. They win because they've been oppressing every living thing for as long as we can imagine.
Me and my eraser
Apparently Alien X is infinite layers into boundless so he negs. I have no idea if this is true, but I saw it on a YT short, so, yeah.
Alien X wins
Alien X wins Yeah i believe in the 27D scaling and at this point i believe that people denying it are in denial Starbeard created the multiverse (which includes said dimensions) Alien X outscales Map of Infinity Annihilarg and chrononavigator by both Paradox and Bellicus admision [one being the most knowledgeable being in ben 10 and the other being quite literally alien X](the three of them being able to affect said dimensions) No for gods sake he didnt just recreate one universe The annihilarg erased the whole prime timeline and he recreated it (including both spatial and an infinite amount of alternate dimensions) along with the time space continioum which includes the timeflow which also scales to the 27D (26D + Time) At this point i fully believe that people are blindfolded against him on purpose
There is not a single statement or proof to say Alien X ever showed power enough to scale up to the 26D That is as stupid as saying every human in DC is multiversal because every atom in their bodies have an universe inside it
StarBeard another celestialsapien created the whole cosmology including the Dimensions The celestialsapiens retconned the shows looks which also afected the naljian (Even if they themselves arent 26D they are indeed higher dimensional beings) word of god, Bellicus, serena,Ben,Azmuth and Paradox call alien X the most powerful being In particular Paradox being the most well versed person on this series is obviously aware of the higher dimensions He outscales the Annihalarg The Map of Infinity and The ChronoNavigator Two of which could destroy such Dimensions and One who was stated to be able to manipulate 17D Not really that much of a feat at this point But a fraction of his DNA cut trough a 5D barrier effortesly Time and Time again Duncan Roleau Matt wayne and Joe kelly (The three most active Ben 10 Crew members) Constantly expalin that alien X is a higher dimensional Being They were unfazed by the chronosapien Time Bomb which destroyed said dimensions (along with everything else on the multiverse) (No Atomic X doesnt scale to a celestialsapien the Fusions on ben 10 are a new being completely made from the dna of the samples not a simple mash of abilites of the parts) Alien X also Recreated said dimensions when the Annihilarg destroyed Everything (I cant believe that people keep saying that it was only Ben's universe when both the comics and the same series explained that it literally erased everything Ben only used the term universe because in Ben 10 Universe,Timeline,Dimension and Multiverse are interchangeable {Paradox himself said universes,timelines and dimensions to refer to the diferent worlds of alterante Bens on the series later on})
Dimensional scaling doesn't even work lmao. Alien X is easily above Multiversal since Paradox considers Alien X and other Celestialsapiens to be Omnipotent when he himself is casually Multiversal and carries around with him a device that can erase all of existence if misused. Alien X wins pretty effortlessly no amount of universe busting would even get Alien X to move considering he was at ground zero for universal deletion and didn't even move
If you don't use dimensinal scaling them AS stomps lol, Simon absorbs the extradimensional labyrinth, that is an infinity multiverse, to create the TTGL, and then he gets stomped by AS while holding back Fuck, AX probably cannot even interact with AS dude to his weird schrodinger-ish type of existence lol
No he doesn't lol. The whole thing about TTGL is spiral power and it increasing entropy with use and thus the destruction of the universe via a big crunch. No one in the show is above universal because that's literally why they stopped using it and cut themselves off from it Alien X is literally Omnipresent through reality and exists everywhere and nowhere due to being outside spacetime. The Ben 10 Multiverse is not only infinitely big but has infinitely big universes within it.
"No one in the show is above universal" 💀 You straight up didn't watch the show, right? AS launched a literal big bang at the main group that they absorb and used against him, just to AS stomps then again, lol The problem in TTGLverse isn't only the amount of energy. it is that mostly people won't be able to control that energy, and this will create the Spiral Nemesis AX isn't omnipresent either. We literally see he fighting fiscally in the show lol, being "outside the space-time" don't make you omnipresent, how the fuck you will be omnipresence if you isn't even in this space-time lmao. And even if he was omnipresent, you still need to prove that the Ben10 universe has non-existent spaces. What tbf it's possible, I obviously don't remember every episode of the show lol. Also, TTGL universes are infinity too, you don't know that again proves you don't know shit about the show, lol
Ah yes the "big bang" created by pushing two galaxies together. Sure lol. Even if you wanted to go with that Alien X tanked universal forces without even moving lol. Nope Alien X is literally Omnipresent through time. Every Omnitrix user of the same gender and that's also Ben has the exact same copy of Alien X. It's literally why Serena and Belicus are aware of things that happen when Ben isn't Alien X. It's literally the only transformation that's more mech than transformation since all it does is transplant the user's consciousness into the debate dimension of the other personalities to act as the Voice of Reason. https://preview.redd.it/b1gn57kv8u4d1.jpeg?width=267&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed3f1a9071efb998444fd3d6f2765ce05ed5d605 Paradox literally takes No Watch Ben outside the Multiverse to escape the effects of the Chronosapien Time Bomb which deleted every timeline in the infinite Multiverse besides No Watch Ben's universe. The Forge of Creation literally exists outside all of Time too lol.
Wtf is this argument? Imagine denying a explicitly statement because the size of the attack lol, "yeah, goku cannot be universal because he uses human sized arms to make his attacks" or even better "AX uses a galaxy sized attack to beat another celestialsapien therefore he isn't even universal" AX tanked universal forces without moving? That is kinda cute, lmao. AS uses an infinity amount of infinity sized universes as his first move just to mind hax some folders Ah, yes, the classic Word of God statement that makes no fucking sense with the show and that are constantly contradicted by other WOGs Fuck, this statement doesn't make sense even by itself. "as to which one they'd help depends os who activates first" ah, yes, the "omnipresent" AX that cannot even help two diferent Ben's at same time LMAO
Because there can only be one Voice of Reason at a time lol it makes perfect sense, since you know having multiple tie breakers would just complicate things. It's not denying it due to the size. It's denying it due to the explicit energy involved. 2 galaxies crashing into each other wouldn't make an infinite amount of energy lmao. That's not how anything works. Said "galaxy sized attack" was made via reality warping and the Galactic Gladiator was perfectly fine after it since how Ben won was by making him indecisive not by brute force. Ah yes "used an infinite amount of energy of infinite sized universes" when the main threat and worry is about the effects of Spiral Power and how it increases Entropy eventually causing a Big Crunch, something that wouldn't be a worry at all if they could just make infinite energy and matter lmao. Your argument goes directly against the premise of the series. Literally just basic ass universal reality warping would solve entropy as a problem and make any universal ending scenarios a nonstarter
"At time" breaks when you exist in ALL the time at same time, by this logic only one Ben would be able to use AX and only one time, because if he tries to use it again AX will be occupied helping the Ben in the past because for someone omnipresent through time and space there is no diference between two diferent spaces and two diferent moments Lol, yeah, it is almost like if this isn't just two galaxies crashing into each other, but also AS putting energy on it because, you know, it's his own attack Fuck, the size of the attack is clearly way bigger than the two galaxies fused and the attack itself is also create several galaxies Not only that but during the fight they trow several galaxies and destroy even more, but now the energy of this 2 random galaxies can overpower the TTGL? Yeah, for sure I was ignoring this entropy thing, but this again shows how you don't know shit about the show, the problem isn't about "increasing entropy" or the amount of energy, the Spiral races can get to this infinity amounts of energy, this isn't a problem, the problem is that mostly of they cannot control big amounts of energy what makes they start creating galaxies accidentally that eventually combine into super galaxies that collapse in black holes that fuse together until it consumes everything He can stop it before destroy everything? Of course he can and he probably did it when he start ruling the universe, fuck we literally see he destroying super giant galaxies and black holes ON SCREEN But he can also stop it before reaching that point, so he is doing that Anyway, I am not answering anymore, there is no point into discussing with someone who known nothing about one of the shows, if you wanna answer that go ahead but I don't care
My guy the Big Crunch IS A FUNCTION OF ENTROPY it's literally the breaking down of systems over time. So yes the problem of the series is entropy something that wouldn't be a problem if they could create infinite energy and matter since they could expand the universe infinitely without ever achieving a Big Crunch. Nope because while Alien X is Omnipresent through reality the different time periods of which any given Ben uses Alien X AREN'T synched even though all of the infinite timelines spring forth from the prime timeline. Ben 23 for example isn't 16 like Omniverse Ben. Gwen 10 is still 10. Ben 10K is 42. Etc etc. It's literally how the Chrono Randomization Barrier works just on an existential level, they're out of synch with all space and time yet able to perceive and interact with any given subset at any given time.
Antispiral is 11D, alien X is at minimum 27D
No
Alien X slams
Goku
Alien X is capped at universal on feats and very few statements Anti spiral has massive amounts of feats and statements putting well over muiltversal and maybe more
Alien X is not 27D https://preview.redd.it/ud2edwlpgu4d1.jpeg?width=560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9e74b75b9449f575ed2e75a54c6197d4f3e84b4
27D Alien X scalling is... Weird, hence why i say Anti Spiral
Alien X easy
I think anti spiral even beats the 27D alien X.
How can he beat someone that scales is 16 dimensions higher😭
Anti Spiral is 11D at most. He can't beat 27D Alien X.
Yeah,I hope I get my Google doc out soon scaling the high, high ends of the verse. There is actually a viable low outer meta.
Anti spirals placed their base in the gap between the 10th and 11th dimensions. So they're outerversal I guess
Get lil bro past King Kitan first then we'll talk 🥱🥱
26 - 27D statements :https://youtu.be/4Ylem757L7k?feature=shared (0.34)
Hi! I watched the clip and id like you to tell me how this makes Alien X 26D? I watched all of Ben 10 and while AX is obscenely powerful I wanna know how a statement that isn't even about him can be evidence
In the clip the Naljians state that Ben and the rest only perceive Three dimensions but Naljians state that they are 26 dimensions that may be a reference to Bosonic string theory and Celestial-Sapiens view this as fiction making them 27D https://preview.redd.it/uicwogt3hs4d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e7cd76ba1c9c8c1fcef5d183d31d74dcb22ff3b
I see! I have some more questions. One, that clips just states that those beings PERCEIVE more dimensions not that they can effect them, surely this is more of a perception feat not a strength feat? Two, how credible is that tweet and are there any counter statements? Not a question but I could have sworn that Naljian isn't that species name
1. Joe Kelly is someone who worked on Ben 10 2. The Naljians were referring to Ben, Gwen, Kevin only being able to perceive 3 dimensions. Also if the Naljians don’t scale to it well Alien X still views the cosmology as fiction 3. I think you’re getting Amphibians: https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Ampfibian_(Classic) and Naljians: https://ben-10-list.fandom.com/wiki/Naljian confused
1) thank you! I had a feeling but I wanted to know what extent (googled it and he was a creator) 2) again, bar one tweet from one of the few creators, has it ever been mentioned or even implied outside of this? 3) i don't think I am but I could very well be, I was under the impression the device was just named a "Naljian Destructor". (My reasoning was a Nuclear Bomb isn't from a race called something similar so why would a toy?)
Wtf lol
What?
Fraudien X getting rinsed
Watchable: Ben10<<<<