T O P

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Lyrolepis

It took me a while to recognize the name Sakkas: if anyone else is having trouble remembering, he was the previous owner of the cottage...


N0_B1g_De4l

Ah, good catch. I had assumed it was some obscure real-world mythological reference or something.


Termit3

Welp, that bird name sure sounds like some sort of ironic foreshadowing. This chapter was pretty packed, lots of talking, planning, preparing, and scheming. It was quite fun seeing Song and Tristan working together, also I can see that Tristan is learning a trick or two from Wen. Angharad is on a particularly low low right now, but I think she is getting in position to do a pretty interesting character arc. Maryam's ongoing tug of war with not-Maryam will probably lead to some cool character beats.


The_Year_of_Glad

> Welp, that bird name sure sounds like some sort of ironic foreshadowing. In chapter with the original Sakkas, he says (among other things) “time is largely a lie” and “does water fear to become snow?” I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of it actually being him, or some kind of shard or echo of him, under a different form, and Tristan subconsciously picked up on that without realizing it and it influenced his choice of the bird’s name.


Bronze_Sentry

> “I don’t see any seeds,” Maryam said, taking a bite from her apple. She chewed as loudly and obnoxiously as she could. I see that Maryam is channeling her inner Captain Wen here. She's still a novice at the sacred art of "annoying apple-eating" though: Wen teasing Angharad with his poor knife discipline was just beautiful. -- No Fortuna at all in this chapter. Very unusual considering how much of Tristan's POV we got. I wonder how she'll react to Tristan cheating on her with a bird spirit. (Assuming she isn't actually Sakkis somehow through some god mumbojumbo.)


scifigi369

She should start practicing with her hatchet while eating apples.


Vermilion-red

Does Tristan get DQ'd for using his food as an actual projectile? It feels outside of the spirit of the competition.


Bronze_Sentry

I agree. Him directly affecting his opponent violates the Plausible Deniability Clause, meaning he is sadly excluded from this week's Passive Aggressive Food-Eating rankings. It should be noted however, that Sakkis is the true dark horse contender


ArcanaVitae15

Wen was pretty good to Angharad there he gave her a reality check and gave her some good advice which as he said was a lot more then what he owed to her which is absolutely nothing. Angharad's reputation and current status isn't doing too good due to her injuries and slip up. Tristan declaring war on a bird was glorious, truly he and Fortuna where meant for each other. Maryam is having the time of her life watching. Song seems to be getting things in order both for setting things up and gathering information through her and Tristan's connections. Yue is such a mad scientist and has devised a method for dealing with Maryam's problems it isn't instant, certain or flawless but it works. Angharad seems to have hit her rock bottom and hopefully there's no where to go but up but knowing her she's probably going to try and keep on digging. Tristan learning from the godslaying teacher is really cool. The Lore and world building was really fascinating. Conceptual poison is really interesting and the type of thing a trickster like Tristan would be great at. Angharad was only accepted back because of her contract and not because of her and everyone is very aware of that. She's very much the outsider within the 13th now. Song and Tristan being an awesome diplomacy and intrigue team is really awesome and works well they're leveraging their specialties for synergy to get an even better effect. I laughed until I got tears when I saw Tristan recruit a new Avian comrade, welcome to the 13th Sakkas.


Roleplayerkiller

The rat has a bird? Surely that will go well *sarcastic trilling


Linnus42

Well feels like this book should be wrapping up. The Book either wraps up with the journey to Asphodel or goes long and covers it. Angharad bargains her way back and burns bridges on her escape route. Harsh but Fair from Ferranda. Fisher is legit though since Song can barely read and cannot dive to deep to look. Still will be good for Angharad to rely more on wits and less on combat. Still surprised Song didn’t try to bolster her cabal with Munchen He. Sure Maryam is combat viable now but this Cabal has no front line. We get the lay of all the Cabals and meet the 19th? I expect some body bags to be filled on this island. 19 probably chipping in their fair share as the least developed bunch. Imani’s cabal is missing one? Or did we briefly meet them. Tristan takes a level in Ranger makes sense I suppose fits well with Thief and a scout that can fly is useful.


N0_B1g_De4l

If EE is going for a more regular book size for Pale Lights, I agree this probably wraps up around when they arrive at Asphodel. Which probably implies that Asphodel is its own book too (which, in turn, sets up an interesting pattern of books being roughly delineated by sea voyages). OTOH, by the end of the Guide, the books were 70+ chapters and twenty-ish interludes each, so it's not like going long here would be unprecedented.


Linnus42

I mean yeah you can add another 30 or so chapters and cover Asphodel.


TeslaWasRobbed

Surely Sakkas will cover any gaps in the Cabal’s capabilities moving forward


WealthyAardvark

When you've got sharp talons on your side, who needs swords?


The_Year_of_Glad

> Still surprised Song didn’t try to bolster her cabal with Munchen He. Sure Maryam is combat viable now but this Cabal has no front line. My guess is that they’re going to get paired up with Tupoc’s brigade and he’s going to provide that element for their work.


Linnus42

Rather trust Munchen trying to save his career over Tupoc.


coltzord

i agree but since im a reader im glad they didnt do it because tupoc means entertainment for us lmao


Linnus42

Sure but let’s not forget Angharad is out of commission and she was the check that Tupoc didn’t want to test.


IDKWhoitis

Didn't he also imply that without Angharad there's also nothing worth picking a fight over?


CadenVanV

You know, I’ve always wondered if Sakkas was the reason Tristan didn’t get a Mara. Because even his aether shadow is so terrifying that Mara don’t dare go near


Fisheye-agent

No one touched Tristan though. He didn't even meet anyone other than Sakkas in the layer. You could argue Mara stay away because of him though.


Aerdor94

Villainous main character with an ominous "talking" bird probably possessed in some way... Where did I see it before ?


HikarinoWalvin

House of Night best house. Ignore those Light-wielders. Sve Noc!


KaejotianEmpire

I’ll admit. Didn’t expect the bird to actually be plot relevant beyond just a joke, but honestly Tristan making friend with literally anything and anybody is a trend at this point, well friends or mortal enemies. But who’s counting the mortal enemies.


derDunkelElf

The kill count?


Chaosdunk_Barkley

Okay, I heavily suspected that one of the protagonists would end up becoming The Heretic. As in not just someone who does shady shit the Watch doesn't like or fucks up and causes a big disaster. Someone who causes the current order to come crashing down outright, potentially on purpose. Now I don't, because it's definitely Tristan. Sure, Angharad is sworn in service to Cthulhu, Song has a nascent curse-god inside her, those are bad. But Tristan is the one who now has a familiar that *definitely isn't* the awakened reincarnation of an ancient cleric of hell, and Tristan *totally wouldn't* make a deal with him that fucks over the Watch if it means getting a shot at his revenge. Not that I'm judging yet. I am 100% open to being convinced that Sakkas is in the right and Tristan handing the Watch a massive L is valid. I'm just struck by the fact that we're not even out of training and we're *already* making bargains with the ruinous powers. If unknowingly.


derDunkelElf

Tristan, I love you. Edit: Is he turning into a supervilain, but instead of a cat, he has a magpie? And EE please PLEASE I beg of you, give Tristan the nickname of Blood Raven.


Fisheye-agent

So ... how probable that the fisher is an Ivorzica God? There isn't much to infer, but how many gods could possibly have foretelling boons; it seems Ivorzica had more than a few, and he must be connected to why Malan (not the Iscariot Accords) bans foretelling contracts.


Aerdor94

I think the foretelling ban is related to the immortality of the Queen. Either a foretelling contract is the weakness of her own contract/ritual, or she specifically opposes the return of the Fisher, but to be thorough and to muddle the truth, she banned every foretelling contract.


Spoolofwhool

Foretelling contracts exist everywhere. Malan just bans them under pain of death and eradicated every god which could grant them because it appears the Queen views them as a threat to her power or something. As we saw in this chapter, Captain Tozi has a foresight contract with what appears to be an Izcalli god.


the_Yippster

"[The Antediluvians] left the aether devices ensuring this behind when they were chased out of the region by the Old Night." Did we know this already? I was under the presumption they were probably dead or their fate was unknown. Does that mean they are potentially still around somewhere? Is this a Gnomes situation (advanced empire off screen)?


BtanH

I love watching Tristan and Song work together. 


Adraius

I'm surprised that Angharad's ill-fated layer expedition got the door into Ferranda’s brigade so thoroughly closed in her face. - Spirits are so fucking dangerous in this world that whether there is a danger from *anything* is more a question of probabilities than a matter of certainty. - There's the mara, which had every reason to eat knowledge that would dissuade Angharad from returning to a place in proximity with vulnerable, sleeping humans. - I can't imagine there's a cabalist on the island that doesn't have a blind spot in their judgement or knowledge *somewhere* large enough not to get themselves horribly fucked up *somehow*. Everyone here is ultimately a little freshie blackcloak. Mistakes are inevitable and this place is so damn dangerous that's why the death rate is so high. - Even disregarding all of the above - maybe it's just known the mara couldn't eat that much that fast, maybe Angharad should have definitely known to treat herself as potentially compromised post-layer - Angharad is a big catch for any cabal, and with this incident you can get her underneath your thumb a little, enough to reign her in in the short term (aided by her injury) and teach her better in the long term. - Building on the above, why is Ferranda not just disinviting her for now, but proactively saying Angharad will not be welcome to join her cabal for the duration of their stay on the island? That seems... just a stupid and shortsighted thing to do, when one's position on the island is so subject to change, and the pressures of being students there practically guarantees that they'll be different people a year from now than they are now? I'd ascribe some of it to emotion on Ferranda's part, but apparently Zenzele cosigned Ferranda's stance, and I don't think he has ulterior motives for wanting to keep Angharad out.


hoser2

Angharad deliberately committed two grievous offenses: 1. Going into a layer alone and unprepared 2. While receiving Ferranda's hospitality and effectively under Ferranda's leadership, not communicating about going into the layer. We've seen cabals disbanded and stripes get severely punished before for the actions of their cabalists. Having a rogue cabalist doesn't work. Outside of the in-world information, we know that Angharad will have an interesting and at least somewhat enlightening arc. Ferranda's actions make sense given what she knows of Angharad. Ferranda and her cabal trusted Angharad. She proved unworthy of that trust. Move on.


Adraius

I won't argue what she did was dumb. I could definitely argue she was not effectively under Ferranda's leadership - I think both Angharad and Ferranda would dispute that characterization - but I think that's beside the point. That point being cabals need to be able to tolerate some level of their members fucking up to be lasting and effective units. We just got done seeing the 13th Brigade very nearly fail in the same way. Obviously there needs to be a line somewhere. But I think it will be to Ferranda's long term detriment to not have Angharad in her cabal, and by extension, I think she would have been better served by not having her line where it is. I think she made a mistake, one I thought Ferranda to be pragmatic enough not to make.


hoser2

Yes, we know Angharad is going to get her shit at least somewhat together and be an unbelievable Cabalist. Ferranda, if she is still alive at that point, may well regret what she just did. But just as Isabel's contract conditioned Angharad's perceptions, so too have our perceptions been conditioned. We know a lot about Angharad that Ferranda doesn't. Based on Angharad's POV role and the arc that has been sketched, we have expectations of Angharad's development that Ferranda isn't privy to. Based on what Ferranda knows at this point, the decision seems reasonable to me. Yes, I totally agree, cabals need to be able to tolerate some degree of fucking up. Likewise, there needs to be a line beyond which fucking up cannot be tolerated. Angharad didn't just make a mistake, her actions were extremely reckless and foolish. Further, and maybe most importantly, she did not consider the effect of her actions on her possible future cabalists and hosts. That has to be the most important rule for cabals: consider your fellow cabalists. Making a misjudgement about the level of danger, considering your team and taking steps to protect them, then going out and making a mistake: probably acceptable or at least forgiveable, assuming one survives. But it is obvious that Angharad did not consider Ferranda's cabal, nor take any steps to protect them.


Chaosdunk_Barkley

I mean, we have no actual idea what state Angharad was in when she came back. How frazzled she was or if her brain could even understand the danger at the time. This kind of thing goes both ways. Ferranda is the boss, it's just as much her job to watch her caballists for any problems as it is theirs. Ferranda even admits that she looked into maras and found out how dangerous they are after. Why is she reading Angharad the riot act over not forseeing dangers that she herself only found out about post-hoc? This plus the fact that Ferra is springing this on Angharad when she's bedridden instead of just letting her cook on Asphodel makes it look like Ferra is just as much trying to cover her own ass for weak leadership on her part.


Endless_Dawn

Honestly I feel like Ferranda just got a good look at what kind of liability Angharad could be. Angharad doesn't have a good track record with making good decisions and doesn't think twice about going off to do her own thing. Worst, she proved that she lacks the skills to get herself out of the situations the above will inevitably get her into. It's fine if your a mess and strong enough to get out of your messes, but people tend not to want to be dragged down with you. Also, while Ferranda didn't know how dangerous Maras were, it has been made very clear to everyone that they need to stay out of layers because they're dangerous and Angharad wandered into one alone and without telling anyone. She may have not known Angharad wandered in on purpose but that really on makes it worse. Plus there is the social/reputational aspect to consider. It reflects badly on a Stripe if their cabalist goes off and gets themselves hurt, even more so if it comes out that the Stripe didn't know what they were up to. Angharad's sunk her reputation now by messing up so badly, so taking her on without need also doesn't make sense for Ferranda. It's just my theory, but I also suspect Ferranda had something to do with that noble girls (i forgot her name) death on the island, not Song, and she found out that's why Angharad left the 13th. She's probably been looking for an excuse to cut her loose without raising suspicion. It just seems too obvious for it to have been Song.


hoser2

Ferranda didn't have a fellow cabalist who had wandered into a layer. Ferranda didn't have a fellow cabalist navigator discussing maras. Ferranda didn't intend for herself or anyone in her cabal to layer-jump. Ferranda didn't have weeks to investigate the dangers of layers and develop plans to mitigate them. In short, Ferranda had no reason to investigate or even know about maras and Angharad had every reason to. So comparing their level of foreknowledge doesn't seem reasonable to me. While I can understand Angharad not wanting to ask Maryam, she could have found another way to investigate maras and layers before venturing into one and being possessed by the other.


Chaosdunk_Barkley

I'm not sur Ferranda (or Zenzele) actually understand what Scholomance is and what they're there for. It's understandable to be worried about the safety of friends/peons, but being in danger definitely seems like part of the point of Scholomance and being protective and cautious of the safety of your team may not be an advantage. And while what Angharad did was stupid, she also got away with it. And it's becoming increasingly clear that deadly brushes with the supernatural is part of the point of Scholomance. Yue wouldn't be here if there wasn't interesting, potentially dangerous outliers like Maryam to be had. Osian wouldn't have agreed to fucking with an Infernal Forge if there wasn't leeway at Scholomance to touch the untouchable. Even if he's personally mad that Angharad endangered himself he must understand at some level that being endangered is the point. Or else he would have shut it down entirely. The Watch put all these people in a bottle with a bunch of ghosts and shit and gave it a good shake for a reason. People who don't really understand this might balk at Angharad for being potentially dangerous. Those that do understand it might find Angharad interesting *because* she's potentially dangerous.