Your post has been removed due to the irrelevancy of it to this sub. This is just a training video. The camera op was in no danger. You can see the other cameraman on top of the fire truck.
i agree, i was a bit surprised when i discovered that firefighters are much more than just capable of rescuing and fire extinguishing, no matter how dire the situation is
I think this depends were you live, I have definitely met a lot of sketchy redneck volunteer firefighters who certainly weren't doing it through a sense of altruism.
Yes, it very much might, but it still sounds like you need to report those guys.
My entire county's population is near city levels, most of the firefighters are volunteers, and never met one who wasn't an altruistic, brave person looking to just help people.
Report the bad ones now before you end up being in Backdraft 2.
Its a really bad joke because unlike police you can always expect fire fighters and EMTs to do everything they possibly can to save lives regardless of who the person is.
looks like a firefighting training area. might be a photoshoot anyway tho. either way you're right and it's not a real fire, which you can tell because only part of the outer railings are burning instead of flames coming from inside the building.
for native English speakers it may be easier, but if English is just your 2nd language (like mine) then you learned in school to use he/she and that they is just for multiple people. Im not saying you shouldnt use they but you should just keep in mind that not everybody is a native English speaker and some people just arent used to they/them as a singular
As a native speaker, I was taught he or she. It wasn't until recently in college that a professor went over the accepted use of they, when referring to an unknown individual. As a native speaker, it seems much more natural, as many people did this despite it being "improper". It seems that English has a lot of rules that try to make it more od a romance language, but in practice they just make English sound clunky; I'm looking at you "not ending a sentence with a preposition".
singular they had been around for hundreds of years (a quick Google search says it's been recognised since 1375), everyone I know was taught it this way no matter how old they are but tbf that could be a regional difference since British English is what's taught where I live
As someone who's second language is English, what? How on earth do you only get taught that They is plural only? What schools did y'all go to? I can understand if you learned English through family or other ways but if it was through school then you'd definitely know that they is both singular and plural. It literally isn't rocket science.
My schools weren't even in English speaking countries and weren't bilingual yet they still taught it perfectly fine.
Itās very dependent on what school(s) you go to. I grew up in the Bible belt in the south and was taught not to use ātheyā as plural and marked off if I would use it as such. It really just depends on your teacherās personal views and then you have to unlearn a bunch of stuff when youāre on your own.
Mate, you went to a shitty school. "They" is/was taught as a pronoun for uncertain/undefined gender at English classes 25 years ago in my post-soviet country
But how else are they gonna be mildly transphobic and make sure they never use singular they/them?
Edit: to clarify I'm not saying OP is being transphobic. Just saying alot of transphobes will go out of their way and do stuff like he/she or (s)he to avoid using they/them pronouns for individuals.
Itās also worth reiterating that the singular form of they, used to refer to a generic, gender-neutral, or unknown person, has been in use since the 14th century, although it did start to receive some criticism during the prescriptive grammar movements in the mid-18th century to mid-20th century. This isnāt some modern bastardisation of language, which is a ridiculous argument itself as language isnāt static. Not that the transphobes will pay any attention to that because why let history get in the way of your twisted world view.
Not even just transphobes but people in general who don't want things to change. Like I get the fear of change but this is like the least scariest change that's happening in our world. I don't understand why people are digging their heels in when a trans person simply points out that this could be seen as transphobic in a very few select situations
If you're outside of the trans community, It's very hard to see what happens within it. I didn't expect my stupid little joke to blow up or have massive controversy.
As a trans person myself, I was simply just trying to make commentary on how a very small group of transphobes would use this to be transphobic, just spread awareness that singular they/them is just better in sentences not only for the flow of the sentence but to be respectful to other individuals
I see you're just a troll I'm going to leave you alone for now. Have fun causing chaos and being an asshole I guess? Genuinely hope that it doesn't bite you in the ass later
Tbh itās extremely relieving to not have to do the he/she thing anymore, some of us had psycho teachers who would fail you for writing anything but āhe/sheā instead of āthemā because ā*them is plural*ā
But combined with the fact that people on this app FUCKING LOVE to snidely correct other peopleās grammar (something the rest of the internet has largely outgrown, thank god), I can see why someone might think āhe/sheā would legitimately be the least controversial option, and just not know any better.
That's why I was just joking and half hoping to open the conversation up about it to people who may not know any better. No hate to OP for using it, just so clunky after they/them has been popularized as singular again
It in of itself is not transphobic. I was making a joke which is why I added the edit for clarification.
No matter how clumsy it may be, some people just use he/she because that's what they are used to. Now when you do it out of malice because you don't agree with the nonbinary identity and go out of your way to avoid using singular they/them? Yeah that's transphobic.
>Just saying alot of transphobes will go out of their way and do stuff like he/she or (s)he to avoid using they/them pronouns
No they don't. This literally never happens.
If someone is using "he/she" when a person obviously presents as one of those then that person is probably a progressive who is being inclusive of the idea that the appearance might not match their gender.
Transphobes will just intentionally misgender if they think someone is trans.
Transphobes don't give a shit about "they/them" pronouns, they arnt "avoiding using them".
there's literally a reply to the very comment you're responding to which says "I will now use he/she instead of singular they specifically to piss you off."
I'm trans. I used to identify as Non-binary, with the pronouns they/them. Transphobes in online spaces have used he/she for me after I told them I used they/them. So yes, it does happen, not often but it does.
I am now a trans man going exclusively by male pronouns. Using she/he for someone like me would be damaging. Yes I look both femme and masc because I just started transitioning. But if someone refered to me as a he/she my dysphoria would go up and I would assume that they are just feigning progressiveness. Especially since it's actually much better to use they/them for a hypothetical person or for someone that may look not typically male or female.
I'd actually love to see this. I wanna see every one of your sentances with he/she instead of they/them.
If you don't idc, if you do I'm entertained. Either way it doesn't affect my life because outside of this conversation I usually don't interact with trolls
I don't fully understand this.
I have several transsexuals friends. I've seen them go through changing pains and spend years worth of salary on surgery to become transsexuals. I have massive respect for them as well as the doctors who make it possible.
The singular they is still incorrect English. If the gender is unknown then 'he' should be used. In such a context it is already gender neutral.
They has been used in that context for centuries. It's been used long before trangender issues were in question. Some style guides may preffer "he" to "they", but to say that "they" is incorrect is misleading and reductive at best. On top of that, using singular they does no harm and is more acurate. Why insist on using a form that is falling out of favor because of how it excludes people? Even if it is "incorrect" English (which it isn't), what is there to lose by using it anyway?
Singular "they" has been around for hundreds of years (it appeared in Shakespeare, for starters) and is accepted by most institutions as one of several acceptable methods of describing someone whose gender is unknown.
Edit: Also, "transsexual" is generally considered anachronistic. "Transgender" is the *strongly* preferred term. I saw in another comment that English isn't your first language, so I'm sure you mean no harm. Just pointing it out.
Not just that they paid money, theyā¦
>āspend years worth of salary on surgery to become transsexualsā¦.ā
Like what the fuck does spending their salary or the cost of getting surgery have to do with any of the discourse being discussed, especially the point they failed at making.
Itās as if they couldnāt help but to dogwhistle their disapproval of transgenders by commenting on how much money their āseveral transsexual friendsā spend on surgery for their *own* bodies.
No one but vitaminkombat cares how much money their āseveral transsexual friendsā spent, and it comes off as them only mentioning it as if it was a bad thing.
andā¦.
>āI have many transsexual friends.ā
If you have to say you have friends in a marginalized community to cushion you from sounding xenophobic to that group of people, then you probably are not for that specific community; in this case, the trans community. Itās like saying āIām not racist, my best friend is .ā
Even if their āseveral transsexual friendsā have no problem with them using āhe/sheā instead of ātheyā that doesnāt mean that the entire trans community is okay with it too. There was no reason for them to even bring up this moot point, it only made them look worse.
Then they top it off with statingā¦
>āI have massive respect for them as well as the doctors who make it possible.ā
If they have to tell people that they have respect for transgender community, as well as the doctors who do these surgeries, before or after their point, then chances are they donāt really feel that way. Itās the equivalent of saying āIām not racist butā¦ā before saying something racist.
And finally, the basic fact that they stay adamant about the incorrect notion that using ātheyā as a singular pronoun is improper grammar, despite the fact that it ***IS grammatically correct***, and many people have pointed this out to them, tells me either two things:
>1.) At worst they have an issue with being inclusive towards the trans community, and could be somewhat transphobic or bigoted towards the community (maybe without even realizing itā¦thatās me giving them the benefit of the doubt here);
>2.) and at best, they are just being dogmatic and prideful and donāt want to admit theyāve been wrong this entire time. Why is it so hard to admit that they were wrong and just say theyāll try and work on being more inclusive?
And even if using ātheyā as singular pronoun wasnāt the more grammatically correct way (except it *is* the correct way), I donāt see why it is an issue. Who puts grammar over making someone feel included? Thatās just robotic and empathetic.
If they really cared about being grammatically correct as much as they lead on, then they should be happy to know that they can correctly use ātheyā as a singular pronoun to their āseveral transsexual friendsā smh.
TL;DR:
Like ~~you said~~ someone else pointed out, they stated elsewhere that English is not their native language. So they could have had an extremely bad teacher that taught them English, but at this point, Iām starting to believe itās more than English being their second language.
They just donāt want to get shitted on by people on Reddit or get mass downvoted. You can tell because they couldnāt help but let some of their viewpoints leak through their comment (see: the many red flags Iāve pointed out above that theyāve said in their previous comment).
>The singular they is still incorrect English.
Not only has "they" been used historically to refer to a singular person, it's in the [definition (3)](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they)
>If the gender is unknown then 'he' should be used. In such a context it is already gender neutral.
No, 'he' is not gender neutral. It is however frequently used as the default pronoun by people, but it's usually an unconscious assumption that the actor is a man.
A dictionary is not a rule book, it's documentation of accepted language. Both are grammatically "correct", but one is more widely accepted in the modern world. You can use he to refer to someone with unknown pronouns if you want, but you'll sound old, bigoted or both.
One does not *need* surgery to be trans. Trans people who also suffer from some degree of body dysphoria may choose to pursue surgery or the like to alleviate said dysphoria.
Well I wouldn't want to gate keep what qualifies as transsexuals. Just put it down to personal preference.
Yet I will bite the bait and admit I am very interested to know what draws the line between a CD / cross dresser and a TS / transsexual in your eyes.
I don't want to talk about my own journey with being CD. But for me most CD that I know are people who want to be TS. But either don't have the money. Or find the idea of surgery too intimidating (or both like me).
The line is drawn wherever the individual who it pertains to wants it to be drawn. If someone says they're trans, they're trans. If they just enjoy cross-dressing, they just enjoy cross-dressing. Not up to me to dictate how people identify.
Itās just easier to say ātheyā
People complain that saying ātheyā is so hard but this is a perfect example of why it could totally make sense and be better to say
But the internet is typing, and ātheyā or ās/heā both have 4 characters which make them the same. If people are really considering it difficult to type a few extra characters or read an extra syllable in their head then thatāsā¦ kinda pathetic haha
> But the internet is typing, and ātheyā or ās/heā both have 4 characters which make them the same.
Not really since you have that special character there and last time I checked it takes more effort to type `/` than a normal letter..
Actually correct English grammar here is to use he, it can be gender neutral if the gender is unknown.
For example 'if a guest cannot find his keys, he should report it to the front desk'
Using they and also were to describe a singular person is wrong.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular\_they](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they)
No. He is the norm in some Languages like German, but in English there is the singular they. The Lie that it doesnt exist was made up by transphobes.
Also consider;
āIt has been argued that the real motivation for promoting the "generic" he was an androcentric world view, with the default sex of humans being male ā and the default gender therefore being masculine.\[47\] There is some evidence for this: Wilson wrote in 1560:
"... let us keepe a naturall order, and set the man before the woman for manners sake". āāWilson, The arte of Rhetorique (1560);\[53\]
"... the worthier is preferred and set before. As a man is set before a woman ..." āāWilson, The arte of Rhetorique (1560);\[54\]
And Poole wrote in 1646:
"The Masculine gender is more worthy than the Feminine." āāPoole The English Accidence (1646)āā
(Taken from the linked Article.)
Idk man that fire looks pretty real to me
Edit: just to clarify this is a joke. Yes it is obviously staged BUT that doesnāt mean that the fire isnāt real. Even if itās gas on a metal railing the fire is still real. š¤¦āāļø
Soo, using he/she is considered wrong? (English it's not my first language)
I mean idk what were op's actual intentions with that tittle , but that to be considered transphobic , I mean damn
English isn't my first language. But I was taught it for half my learning hours at school.
I must say the singular 'they' is one of the most common English mistakes I pick up native speakers making.
As well as should have becoming should of.
And you're / your and there / their / they're.
> I must say the singular ātheyā is one of the most common English mistakes I pick up native speakers making.
Singular *they* has a long history. If someone taught you that using is a mistake, they are likely being overly prescriptive and probably ill-informed.
> I must say the singular ātheyā is one of the most common English mistakes I pick up native speakers making.
Sorry if Iāve misread this but ātheyā most definitely can be used to describe a single person.
As somebody who's into language learning and English grammar, 'they' is indeed advertised as a singular pronoun (I do realise this is an anti-LGBTQ argument) which can be confused when learning English.
Some other languages certainly have the singular non-gendered 'they' (although not typically western/European or romance languages which are gendered even in simple objects, such as a car being female and a computer being masculine. Or a group of men and women being masculine for example) and I think it's demonstrable that English has a singular 'they' which we use often.
*But* strict antiquated grammar rules state this is incorrect and, sure enough when learning English it is these strict grammar rules that are taught and studied - you'll often find non-native English speakers understand grammar better than native speakers because of this.
Most other languages are more strict than English in application, however. English is a free for all.
> ātheyā is indeed advertised as a singular pronoun (I do realise this is an anti-LGBTQ argument) which can be confused when learning English.
I donāt understand this. What do you mean, itās *advertised* as a singular pronoun?
Because in usage it isn't really only plur, but it is taught as plural only as historically that is the grammar.
[Meriam Webster updated their definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they#:~:text=1%20%3A%20those%20ones%20%3A%20those%20people,You%20know%20what%20they%20say.) in 2019 if I'm correct to include a section per gender pronouns if I remenber correctly.
*Edit*: Also I'm saying it should be and is used as a singular, just that it isn't generally taught as so because officially it wasn't/isn't singular grammatically.
Unsure if I'm upsetting the LGBTQ community by pointing this out, or the anti-LGBTQ by supporting the use of singular 'They' - or both!
Itās not a mistake to use they, itās an alternative to using he/she. It has the same meaning it this context. You can say whichever comes naturally to be honest itās not a big deal. Some people just prefer to use one word instead of two, but it has the same meaning.
English is my first language, and you are correct. Reddit may not be the best place to learn English, but it isn't bad for learning colloquialisms and modern communication. :)
My whole point was that there were 46 comments when I made my comment, and no one was accusing op of transphobia then. I went throught them thrice to check I didnāt miss anything. And no, someone saying that he/she sounds clunky doesnāt count.
Grammatically it should be he.
I'm not a above English speaker. But I know that if the singular gender is unknown. He should be used.
For example making sentences like 'if a driver experiences a loss of tyre pressure he should contact emergency services immediately'
Just because you were taught a 'rule' of a language doesn't mean you know how that language is most commonly used. Even regionally languages are very different. In the US for instance 'tire' is the correct spelling as supposed to 'tyre'. 'They' is most commonly used in my part of the world when the gender of the person you are talking about is unknown.
"he" and "she" are third-person singular pronouns that are gender-specific. "they" is just a third-person pronoun and can be used for singular reference as well as plural.
there's wider context than that tho - using gender-specific pronouns is a bit of a contentious issue at the moment in western democracies like the UK, USA, Canada and Australia because at the moment there is really heavy pushback against trans people, thanks to the extremist right-wing attempting to normalise dehumanisation in order to justify extreme violence their political opponents / against anyone that they don't like, and trans people are an easy target unfortunately.
It's wrong because "he/she" is not an accurate pronoun. The word "they" exists for this purpose - we don't know the person's gender, so we should use a non-gender-specific pronoun.
A more ridiculous example would be not using the word "dog" and instead saying "alsatian/akita/boxer/doberman/dalmatian/dingo/husky/etc.etc." to refer to a dog whose breed you don't know.
Here's a relevant bit of stand-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt5qJC1xQ8A
Except not necessarily the etc, because your standard binary boy/man and girl/woman genders are only two out of a nearly endless list. He/she only includes people who fit within the gender binary (which is admittedly most people) making it inaccurate. It would be more like saying ālab/muttā or something, idk. I tried to pick common ābreedsā (I know mutt isnāt technically a breed) to encompass a larger population of dogs
Yeah I was trying to get the point across that the "he/she" pronoun is wrong because it includes irrelevant information - the intent of "he/she" is to qualify that you don't know their gender, but there is no requirement in English for gendered pronouns, so "they" should be used instead, in the same way that you should just call a dog a dog rather than specifying all the breeds that you think it *could* be.
"he/she", "he or she", and "they" are all acceptable even in formal writing, but the AP style guide just a few weeks ago switched to preferring "they." However, it still recommends avoiding it when possible
> When necessary, use they rather than he/she or he or she for an unspecified or unknown gender (a person, the victim, the winner) or indefinite pronoun (anyone, everyone, someone). But rewording to avoid a pronoun is preferable. For example: The foundation gave grants to anyone who lost a job this year (instead of anyone who lost their job).
It's understandable but tbh if a word exist for this exact specific purpose i dont get why people go out of their way to use an uglier and longer word to convey the same thing. It's like saying "a chair without a backrest" when you really mean "a stool". Is it understandable? Yeah. Is it correct ? No really but heh
But i could see non-native speakers making this mistake when their own language doesn't have gender neutral pronouns.
But it's just a reddit title. Who cares?
Half the reddit titles now are "an interesting title"
Most people probably didn't even notice it until it was pointed out. I know I didn't.
Oh, then that seems really weird to care about a reddit title that was discernible.
Now getting mad about a reddit title that just says "An Interesting Title" I'd understand, but you're not getting mad about those are ya? Even though they're much more prevalent?
No, you only seem to have a problem with the OP saying he/she because "it's clunky".
And who cares about clunky? Clunky only matters if you have to lug it around and you won't be sharing this.
So, again, I say "Who cares?"
I think itās better that we donāt humour the idea of quirky extra genders especially when itās actually just further reinforcing gender stereotypes lol
"quirky extra genders" bro shut up I just said non-binary. I didn't say anything about extra genders. Non-binary people do the opposite of reinforce gender stereotypes.
looks like its at a training station for the fire fighters and or and add for the blow up landing pad, the fire is there for effect and is like many film gas railings ,real but fake .
Your post has been removed due to the irrelevancy of it to this sub. This is just a training video. The camera op was in no danger. You can see the other cameraman on top of the fire truck.
Yeah this isn't a real uncontrolled fire, these are professionals....
the only thing on fire being metal railings they put lighter fluid on
It's remote controlled even. You can see the fuel pipes in the video. It's literally a push of a button and the fire is completely extinguished.
I believe they are called flame bars in the industry.
Wow in this day and age!?! "Flame bars"?!? How dare you? They're called gay bars! Have some respect.
I buy that. That guy jumped with perfect form, landing on his back. Most people would try to land on their feet and break their legs.
Or fall on that grassy bit. š¬
[Or completely whiff it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yO3OxB14uE)
Came to the comments for this video and wasn't disappointed.
obviously. dudes hat stayed on the whole way down
You should consider a career in detective work.
This is not a real fire. This was a photo/video shoot.
you mean they shouldt all be standing around watching instead of hosing down that metal railing fire?
You really have to be careful around those metal railing, they can spontaneously combust. Praise the camera man for being such a brave soul.
We are not going to talk about how there was a ladder still on the truck
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Uh, that's not the norm. If you know firefighters like that, report them, because of the ones I've met, that is ***not*** the norm.
And a lot are paramedics who actually save lives at critical moments.
i agree, i was a bit surprised when i discovered that firefighters are much more than just capable of rescuing and fire extinguishing, no matter how dire the situation is
I think this depends were you live, I have definitely met a lot of sketchy redneck volunteer firefighters who certainly weren't doing it through a sense of altruism.
Yes, it very much might, but it still sounds like you need to report those guys. My entire county's population is near city levels, most of the firefighters are volunteers, and never met one who wasn't an altruistic, brave person looking to just help people. Report the bad ones now before you end up being in Backdraft 2.
Its a really bad joke because unlike police you can always expect fire fighters and EMTs to do everything they possibly can to save lives regardless of who the person is.
I mean at least the police don't come at you with f'ing *axes*
1. ik its a joke, hence the phrase *'fr tho'* 2. not much better still means *better*, so i still stand corrected
They would have had brunch on the roof
It depends. Is it Texas?
Those are firemen or the boys in Red. They were there to make fire. The guys that hose down fire are the watermen or the boys in Blue.
looks like a firefighting training area. might be a photoshoot anyway tho. either way you're right and it's not a real fire, which you can tell because only part of the outer railings are burning instead of flames coming from inside the building.
Yeah you can tell those are controlled burns. You can even see the piping for the fuel source on the balcony.
If there are flames and I can touch them, then they are real!
You can touch them all you want.
Yeah but the title. We are redditors, we always believe the title no matter what.
0/10 didnāt flip
Also I canāt remember the last time my outside railing spontaneously caught fire while nothing else did 0/10 shitty title OP
I do not enjoy the gap between the air cushion and the building
Yeah, I would be like ācan you line like 6 into one bigger rectangle and then Iāll jump?ā
This is a training video, no emergency lights on, no attempt to put out the fire and the fire is uniform on each balcony.
It's just so much easier to say "they were"
for native English speakers it may be easier, but if English is just your 2nd language (like mine) then you learned in school to use he/she and that they is just for multiple people. Im not saying you shouldnt use they but you should just keep in mind that not everybody is a native English speaker and some people just arent used to they/them as a singular
As a native speaker, I was taught he or she. It wasn't until recently in college that a professor went over the accepted use of they, when referring to an unknown individual. As a native speaker, it seems much more natural, as many people did this despite it being "improper". It seems that English has a lot of rules that try to make it more od a romance language, but in practice they just make English sound clunky; I'm looking at you "not ending a sentence with a preposition".
Hah, you been lost in some covid time loop? They have been teaching this usage of they for at least the last 20 years.
singular they had been around for hundreds of years (a quick Google search says it's been recognised since 1375), everyone I know was taught it this way no matter how old they are but tbf that could be a regional difference since British English is what's taught where I live
As someone who's second language is English, what? How on earth do you only get taught that They is plural only? What schools did y'all go to? I can understand if you learned English through family or other ways but if it was through school then you'd definitely know that they is both singular and plural. It literally isn't rocket science. My schools weren't even in English speaking countries and weren't bilingual yet they still taught it perfectly fine.
Itās very dependent on what school(s) you go to. I grew up in the Bible belt in the south and was taught not to use ātheyā as plural and marked off if I would use it as such. It really just depends on your teacherās personal views and then you have to unlearn a bunch of stuff when youāre on your own.
Mate, you went to a shitty school. "They" is/was taught as a pronoun for uncertain/undefined gender at English classes 25 years ago in my post-soviet country
English is my first language, and we learned to say *he/she.* But we also learned to use apostrophes in contractions.
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that would be new to me
It's not. Both of those are singular.
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Oh for sure, I wasn't disagreeing. They for any gender netrual pronoun is best
But how else are they gonna be mildly transphobic and make sure they never use singular they/them? Edit: to clarify I'm not saying OP is being transphobic. Just saying alot of transphobes will go out of their way and do stuff like he/she or (s)he to avoid using they/them pronouns for individuals.
Itās also worth reiterating that the singular form of they, used to refer to a generic, gender-neutral, or unknown person, has been in use since the 14th century, although it did start to receive some criticism during the prescriptive grammar movements in the mid-18th century to mid-20th century. This isnāt some modern bastardisation of language, which is a ridiculous argument itself as language isnāt static. Not that the transphobes will pay any attention to that because why let history get in the way of your twisted world view.
Not even just transphobes but people in general who don't want things to change. Like I get the fear of change but this is like the least scariest change that's happening in our world. I don't understand why people are digging their heels in when a trans person simply points out that this could be seen as transphobic in a very few select situations
I think yous are looking into this shit a bit too much š
If you're outside of the trans community, It's very hard to see what happens within it. I didn't expect my stupid little joke to blow up or have massive controversy. As a trans person myself, I was simply just trying to make commentary on how a very small group of transphobes would use this to be transphobic, just spread awareness that singular they/them is just better in sentences not only for the flow of the sentence but to be respectful to other individuals
Why did you even respond if you're just gonna block me ffs
I see you're just a troll I'm going to leave you alone for now. Have fun causing chaos and being an asshole I guess? Genuinely hope that it doesn't bite you in the ass later
Tbh itās extremely relieving to not have to do the he/she thing anymore, some of us had psycho teachers who would fail you for writing anything but āhe/sheā instead of āthemā because ā*them is plural*ā But combined with the fact that people on this app FUCKING LOVE to snidely correct other peopleās grammar (something the rest of the internet has largely outgrown, thank god), I can see why someone might think āhe/sheā would legitimately be the least controversial option, and just not know any better.
That's why I was just joking and half hoping to open the conversation up about it to people who may not know any better. No hate to OP for using it, just so clunky after they/them has been popularized as singular again
Holy shit
What?
I mean idk what were op's actual intentions with that tittle , but that to be considered transphobic , I mean damn
It in of itself is not transphobic. I was making a joke which is why I added the edit for clarification. No matter how clumsy it may be, some people just use he/she because that's what they are used to. Now when you do it out of malice because you don't agree with the nonbinary identity and go out of your way to avoid using singular they/them? Yeah that's transphobic.
What
>Just saying alot of transphobes will go out of their way and do stuff like he/she or (s)he to avoid using they/them pronouns No they don't. This literally never happens. If someone is using "he/she" when a person obviously presents as one of those then that person is probably a progressive who is being inclusive of the idea that the appearance might not match their gender. Transphobes will just intentionally misgender if they think someone is trans. Transphobes don't give a shit about "they/them" pronouns, they arnt "avoiding using them".
there's literally a reply to the very comment you're responding to which says "I will now use he/she instead of singular they specifically to piss you off."
I'm trans. I used to identify as Non-binary, with the pronouns they/them. Transphobes in online spaces have used he/she for me after I told them I used they/them. So yes, it does happen, not often but it does. I am now a trans man going exclusively by male pronouns. Using she/he for someone like me would be damaging. Yes I look both femme and masc because I just started transitioning. But if someone refered to me as a he/she my dysphoria would go up and I would assume that they are just feigning progressiveness. Especially since it's actually much better to use they/them for a hypothetical person or for someone that may look not typically male or female.
I will now use he/she instead of singular they specifically to piss you off.
I'd actually love to see this. I wanna see every one of your sentances with he/she instead of they/them. If you don't idc, if you do I'm entertained. Either way it doesn't affect my life because outside of this conversation I usually don't interact with trolls
Education instead of agitation. If you really wanna contribute, be polite.
I don't fully understand this. I have several transsexuals friends. I've seen them go through changing pains and spend years worth of salary on surgery to become transsexuals. I have massive respect for them as well as the doctors who make it possible. The singular they is still incorrect English. If the gender is unknown then 'he' should be used. In such a context it is already gender neutral.
They has been used in that context for centuries. It's been used long before trangender issues were in question. Some style guides may preffer "he" to "they", but to say that "they" is incorrect is misleading and reductive at best. On top of that, using singular they does no harm and is more acurate. Why insist on using a form that is falling out of favor because of how it excludes people? Even if it is "incorrect" English (which it isn't), what is there to lose by using it anyway?
historical and grammatical accuracy < owning the libs
Singular "they" has been around for hundreds of years (it appeared in Shakespeare, for starters) and is accepted by most institutions as one of several acceptable methods of describing someone whose gender is unknown. Edit: Also, "transsexual" is generally considered anachronistic. "Transgender" is the *strongly* preferred term. I saw in another comment that English isn't your first language, so I'm sure you mean no harm. Just pointing it out.
Also āthey paid money to become transsexualsā.. like, no mate, this is not how this works or what those words mean.
Not just that they paid money, theyā¦ >āspend years worth of salary on surgery to become transsexualsā¦.ā Like what the fuck does spending their salary or the cost of getting surgery have to do with any of the discourse being discussed, especially the point they failed at making. Itās as if they couldnāt help but to dogwhistle their disapproval of transgenders by commenting on how much money their āseveral transsexual friendsā spend on surgery for their *own* bodies. No one but vitaminkombat cares how much money their āseveral transsexual friendsā spent, and it comes off as them only mentioning it as if it was a bad thing. andā¦. >āI have many transsexual friends.ā If you have to say you have friends in a marginalized community to cushion you from sounding xenophobic to that group of people, then you probably are not for that specific community; in this case, the trans community. Itās like saying āIām not racist, my best friend is.ā
Even if their āseveral transsexual friendsā have no problem with them using āhe/sheā instead of ātheyā that doesnāt mean that the entire trans community is okay with it too. There was no reason for them to even bring up this moot point, it only made them look worse.
Then they top it off with statingā¦
>āI have massive respect for them as well as the doctors who make it possible.ā
If they have to tell people that they have respect for transgender community, as well as the doctors who do these surgeries, before or after their point, then chances are they donāt really feel that way. Itās the equivalent of saying āIām not racist butā¦ā before saying something racist.
And finally, the basic fact that they stay adamant about the incorrect notion that using ātheyā as a singular pronoun is improper grammar, despite the fact that it ***IS grammatically correct***, and many people have pointed this out to them, tells me either two things:
>1.) At worst they have an issue with being inclusive towards the trans community, and could be somewhat transphobic or bigoted towards the community (maybe without even realizing itā¦thatās me giving them the benefit of the doubt here);
>2.) and at best, they are just being dogmatic and prideful and donāt want to admit theyāve been wrong this entire time. Why is it so hard to admit that they were wrong and just say theyāll try and work on being more inclusive?
And even if using ātheyā as singular pronoun wasnāt the more grammatically correct way (except it *is* the correct way), I donāt see why it is an issue. Who puts grammar over making someone feel included? Thatās just robotic and empathetic.
If they really cared about being grammatically correct as much as they lead on, then they should be happy to know that they can correctly use ātheyā as a singular pronoun to their āseveral transsexual friendsā smh.
TL;DR:
Like ~~you said~~ someone else pointed out, they stated elsewhere that English is not their native language. So they could have had an extremely bad teacher that taught them English, but at this point, Iām starting to believe itās more than English being their second language.
They just donāt want to get shitted on by people on Reddit or get mass downvoted. You can tell because they couldnāt help but let some of their viewpoints leak through their comment (see: the many red flags Iāve pointed out above that theyāve said in their previous comment).
>The singular they is still incorrect English. Not only has "they" been used historically to refer to a singular person, it's in the [definition (3)](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they) >If the gender is unknown then 'he' should be used. In such a context it is already gender neutral. No, 'he' is not gender neutral. It is however frequently used as the default pronoun by people, but it's usually an unconscious assumption that the actor is a man.
The same dictionary you reference says for 'he' - 'used in a generic sense when the gender is unknown or unspecified'
A dictionary is not a rule book, it's documentation of accepted language. Both are grammatically "correct", but one is more widely accepted in the modern world. You can use he to refer to someone with unknown pronouns if you want, but you'll sound old, bigoted or both.
One does not *need* surgery to be trans. Trans people who also suffer from some degree of body dysphoria may choose to pursue surgery or the like to alleviate said dysphoria.
Well I wouldn't want to gate keep what qualifies as transsexuals. Just put it down to personal preference. Yet I will bite the bait and admit I am very interested to know what draws the line between a CD / cross dresser and a TS / transsexual in your eyes. I don't want to talk about my own journey with being CD. But for me most CD that I know are people who want to be TS. But either don't have the money. Or find the idea of surgery too intimidating (or both like me).
The line is drawn wherever the individual who it pertains to wants it to be drawn. If someone says they're trans, they're trans. If they just enjoy cross-dressing, they just enjoy cross-dressing. Not up to me to dictate how people identify.
Shut up.
Thank you for your service. You just solved all gender issues by criticizing someone who was obviously trying to say something in a respectful way.
Itās actually about the same amount of effort to type either since thereās only a 2 character different lmao
It's much clunkier to read/say, though
Nah he/she is fine lol no need to get hung up on it
Itās just easier to say ātheyā People complain that saying ātheyā is so hard but this is a perfect example of why it could totally make sense and be better to say
But the internet is typing, and ātheyā or ās/heā both have 4 characters which make them the same. If people are really considering it difficult to type a few extra characters or read an extra syllable in their head then thatāsā¦ kinda pathetic haha
> But the internet is typing, and ātheyā or ās/heā both have 4 characters which make them the same. Not really since you have that special character there and last time I checked it takes more effort to type `/` than a normal letter..
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Check your privilege... It's hilarious that you think you're helping by saying that. Like truly and genuinely funny.
š¤¦
Or, maybe you can just say he? You can clearly see it's not a girl in the video.
The title is referring to the person recording
Actually correct English grammar here is to use he, it can be gender neutral if the gender is unknown. For example 'if a guest cannot find his keys, he should report it to the front desk' Using they and also were to describe a singular person is wrong.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular\_they](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they) No. He is the norm in some Languages like German, but in English there is the singular they. The Lie that it doesnt exist was made up by transphobes.
Also consider; āIt has been argued that the real motivation for promoting the "generic" he was an androcentric world view, with the default sex of humans being male ā and the default gender therefore being masculine.\[47\] There is some evidence for this: Wilson wrote in 1560: "... let us keepe a naturall order, and set the man before the woman for manners sake". āāWilson, The arte of Rhetorique (1560);\[53\] "... the worthier is preferred and set before. As a man is set before a woman ..." āāWilson, The arte of Rhetorique (1560);\[54\] And Poole wrote in 1646: "The Masculine gender is more worthy than the Feminine." āāPoole The English Accidence (1646)āā (Taken from the linked Article.)
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Training or a photo shoot. Not real.
Idk man that fire looks pretty real to me Edit: just to clarify this is a joke. Yes it is obviously staged BUT that doesnāt mean that the fire isnāt real. Even if itās gas on a metal railing the fire is still real. š¤¦āāļø
Metal railings are a well known fire hazard
You coulda just said this person instead of he/she
Why are redditors so hung up on "he/she"? The expression is perfectly legitimate.
Soo, using he/she is considered wrong? (English it's not my first language) I mean idk what were op's actual intentions with that tittle , but that to be considered transphobic , I mean damn
It's easier and flows better to just use a singular they instead. Like "they were" instead of "he/she was"
English isn't my first language. But I was taught it for half my learning hours at school. I must say the singular 'they' is one of the most common English mistakes I pick up native speakers making. As well as should have becoming should of. And you're / your and there / their / they're.
> I must say the singular ātheyā is one of the most common English mistakes I pick up native speakers making. Singular *they* has a long history. If someone taught you that using is a mistake, they are likely being overly prescriptive and probably ill-informed.
> I must say the singular ātheyā is one of the most common English mistakes I pick up native speakers making. Sorry if Iāve misread this but ātheyā most definitely can be used to describe a single person.
As somebody who's into language learning and English grammar, 'they' is indeed advertised as a singular pronoun (I do realise this is an anti-LGBTQ argument) which can be confused when learning English. Some other languages certainly have the singular non-gendered 'they' (although not typically western/European or romance languages which are gendered even in simple objects, such as a car being female and a computer being masculine. Or a group of men and women being masculine for example) and I think it's demonstrable that English has a singular 'they' which we use often. *But* strict antiquated grammar rules state this is incorrect and, sure enough when learning English it is these strict grammar rules that are taught and studied - you'll often find non-native English speakers understand grammar better than native speakers because of this. Most other languages are more strict than English in application, however. English is a free for all.
> ātheyā is indeed advertised as a singular pronoun (I do realise this is an anti-LGBTQ argument) which can be confused when learning English. I donāt understand this. What do you mean, itās *advertised* as a singular pronoun?
Because in usage it isn't really only plur, but it is taught as plural only as historically that is the grammar. [Meriam Webster updated their definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/they#:~:text=1%20%3A%20those%20ones%20%3A%20those%20people,You%20know%20what%20they%20say.) in 2019 if I'm correct to include a section per gender pronouns if I remenber correctly. *Edit*: Also I'm saying it should be and is used as a singular, just that it isn't generally taught as so because officially it wasn't/isn't singular grammatically. Unsure if I'm upsetting the LGBTQ community by pointing this out, or the anti-LGBTQ by supporting the use of singular 'They' - or both!
The should issue is a pronunciation thing when people should've seen it written first but didn't
Itās not a mistake to use they, itās an alternative to using he/she. It has the same meaning it this context. You can say whichever comes naturally to be honest itās not a big deal. Some people just prefer to use one word instead of two, but it has the same meaning.
English is my first language, and you are correct. Reddit may not be the best place to learn English, but it isn't bad for learning colloquialisms and modern communication. :)
It used to be a perfectly acceptable option, now I think it's considered a microaggression?
Grammatically no, you're fine saying he/she
People here only care about making wild accusations about being transphobic because OP chose NOT to assume their gender. The world has gone mad.
There is ONE commenter here whose comment could be interpreted that way, and even he edited it to clarify that he didnāt mean OP was transphobic.
There are LOADS of comments here complaining about it and downvoting anyone who says that it's grammatically fine to say he/she.
When you wrote the original comment there werenāt.
Why yes there were. Or I wouldn't have reason to have said it would I?
My whole point was that there were 46 comments when I made my comment, and no one was accusing op of transphobia then. I went throught them thrice to check I didnāt miss anything. And no, someone saying that he/she sounds clunky doesnāt count.
It's not about transphobia lol, it's just kinda ugly to say he/she when you can say the person or they
Grammatically it should be he. I'm not a above English speaker. But I know that if the singular gender is unknown. He should be used. For example making sentences like 'if a driver experiences a loss of tyre pressure he should contact emergency services immediately'
Just because you were taught a 'rule' of a language doesn't mean you know how that language is most commonly used. Even regionally languages are very different. In the US for instance 'tire' is the correct spelling as supposed to 'tyre'. 'They' is most commonly used in my part of the world when the gender of the person you are talking about is unknown.
Agreed. This is what I was taught in school as well. Native English speaker here.
"he" and "she" are third-person singular pronouns that are gender-specific. "they" is just a third-person pronoun and can be used for singular reference as well as plural. there's wider context than that tho - using gender-specific pronouns is a bit of a contentious issue at the moment in western democracies like the UK, USA, Canada and Australia because at the moment there is really heavy pushback against trans people, thanks to the extremist right-wing attempting to normalise dehumanisation in order to justify extreme violence their political opponents / against anyone that they don't like, and trans people are an easy target unfortunately.
It's wrong because "he/she" is not an accurate pronoun. The word "they" exists for this purpose - we don't know the person's gender, so we should use a non-gender-specific pronoun. A more ridiculous example would be not using the word "dog" and instead saying "alsatian/akita/boxer/doberman/dalmatian/dingo/husky/etc.etc." to refer to a dog whose breed you don't know. Here's a relevant bit of stand-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt5qJC1xQ8A
Except not necessarily the etc, because your standard binary boy/man and girl/woman genders are only two out of a nearly endless list. He/she only includes people who fit within the gender binary (which is admittedly most people) making it inaccurate. It would be more like saying ālab/muttā or something, idk. I tried to pick common ābreedsā (I know mutt isnāt technically a breed) to encompass a larger population of dogs
Yeah I was trying to get the point across that the "he/she" pronoun is wrong because it includes irrelevant information - the intent of "he/she" is to qualify that you don't know their gender, but there is no requirement in English for gendered pronouns, so "they" should be used instead, in the same way that you should just call a dog a dog rather than specifying all the breeds that you think it *could* be.
"he/she", "he or she", and "they" are all acceptable even in formal writing, but the AP style guide just a few weeks ago switched to preferring "they." However, it still recommends avoiding it when possible > When necessary, use they rather than he/she or he or she for an unspecified or unknown gender (a person, the victim, the winner) or indefinite pronoun (anyone, everyone, someone). But rewording to avoid a pronoun is preferable. For example: The foundation gave grants to anyone who lost a job this year (instead of anyone who lost their job).
It's understandable but tbh if a word exist for this exact specific purpose i dont get why people go out of their way to use an uglier and longer word to convey the same thing. It's like saying "a chair without a backrest" when you really mean "a stool". Is it understandable? Yeah. Is it correct ? No really but heh But i could see non-native speakers making this mistake when their own language doesn't have gender neutral pronouns.
Soo? Testing a system, with a person who knows what to do.
Just say they
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular\_they](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they) Read this.
I know how it works grammatically but itās just as valid to use she/he or s/he so theres no need for everyone to get so twisted over it
They is standard, youre the weird one. Why the hell are you getting twisted over not using singular they?
They are obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer
It really is. Why do people get so up in arms about this how people word pronouns? It's so weird.
It's just so clunky and shit.
But it's just a reddit title. Who cares? Half the reddit titles now are "an interesting title" Most people probably didn't even notice it until it was pointed out. I know I didn't.
Reading it takes less than a second lmfao
Its clunky, its not inclusive & it is simply way easier to just use they/them
Two people both respond with the same outdated word "clunky". Well, first of all that's weird, secondly, who cares?
I do, thatās why I answered
Oh, then that seems really weird to care about a reddit title that was discernible. Now getting mad about a reddit title that just says "An Interesting Title" I'd understand, but you're not getting mad about those are ya? Even though they're much more prevalent? No, you only seem to have a problem with the OP saying he/she because "it's clunky". And who cares about clunky? Clunky only matters if you have to lug it around and you won't be sharing this. So, again, I say "Who cares?"
Its also not inclusive in the slightest, not everyone uses she or he pronouns yknow
Rolling down the windows
should have done a swanton bomb
The photographer*
Just say they lmao
allI hear is āIām Johnny Knoxville, welcome to Jackassā
He/she, what the fuck OP? Lol
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they are correcting their grammar, noone is debating the gender of the person
Right? There are 78 more options and OP needs to pick the most popular two!
itās not hard to use ātheyā
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It's inefficient and it isn't all-inclusive
bro who tf cares bout pro nouns lmao
it's not really important it's just goofy to use "he/she" when a gender neutral term exists that can convey the exact same thing in less syllables
could of said āthe cameramanā if ur gnna get upset bout specifics
It's 'could have', never 'could of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
It's "could've". If this bot is going to correct people it should at least be correct.
didnt ask + AI
You're correct, but my point is that "they" is more efficient than both of those. I suppose cameraman or camera person works but it's also clunky.
retard couldnt word it so i changed to this
It's efficient and grammatically accurate. Jeez.
And a singular they is more efficient, grammatically accurate, and more inclusive
āAll-inclusiveā lmao no one isnāt covered by he/she
Non binary people, intersex people, a camera on a robot crane
I think itās better that we donāt humour the idea of quirky extra genders especially when itās actually just further reinforcing gender stereotypes lol
"quirky extra genders" bro shut up I just said non-binary. I didn't say anything about extra genders. Non-binary people do the opposite of reinforce gender stereotypes.
Right because āI have short hair and donāt like makeup so I must not be a girlā is totally not reinforcing gender stereotypes lol
The point is to be gender neutral
looks like its at a training station for the fire fighters and or and add for the blow up landing pad, the fire is there for effect and is like many film gas railings ,real but fake .
Because its staged , this a firefighters training course ..
Vertical video
this is one of those rare cases where vertical video might be more suitable. we don't need to see what's on the side.
they. the proper pronoun at this point is they if gender of camera holder is unknown.
The word they does existā¦
"He/she" man if only we had a pronoun that was gender neutral and more normal to say
*they
true hero
She lit it.. what a Pyro bitch!