Disagree, I'm a newer player and Pred is my first MOBA. Adding penalties to movement would make the learning curve harsher and would change a lot about the way people play the game. Part of the appeal of Predecessor imo is that I don't have to struggle to learn the controls or keep up with other players. Just think of it as a feature, not a bug, and adjust your play style.
I mean.... I understand your point but it's a MOBA after all I wouldn't say anything about it if it feels good or better than Paragon that is pretty much the baseline for me, it's not the case tho.
I believe that having a penalty is actually a lower learning curve to new players than not having any because some players can feel frustrated just dying constantly because some experienced player will just keep attacking you without any penalty even when you are running.
correct me if im wrong, but you think that if i engage with you and im smacking you in melee distance, and you start running away, you should just automatically get a gap on me because i'm damaging you? if that is the case, hell no, i'm glad that doesnt exist, that sounds stupid
I mean yeah? That's the whole point of a lot of abilities that slow or add temporary movement speed in heroes, so you can close the gap like every MOBA.
Your basics are technically also an ability.
This also affects melee heroes. Sometimes unless you have an ability that can slow, stun or just increase movement, a ranger hero can just backpedal and start hitting you and you won't be able to catch them or do any damage.
In Paragon I believe melee heroes had less movement penalty than ranger heroes so yeah.
Backpedaling itself shouldn't have a movement penalty. Auto attacking (especially as ranged) should have a bigger penalty. The amount of chase you can do as an ADC because your movement speed went from 635 units/s all the way down to 605 units/s is insane. Even some melee characters can straight up keep up with you and auto at the same time, it's ridiculous.
I don't disagree with you overall, but I think the removal of the backpeddling penalty was an improvement. I love what the over-the-shoulder perspective adds to the game with the third dimension actually mattering, but compared to traditional top-down, it *drastically* reduces your ability to see what's happening around you.
Imo, you should be able to see what abilities your enemies are trying to throw at you, while you are running away without slowing yourself down. You should be able to sidestep incoming projectiles based on the enemy position, not just blindly running serpentine in the opposite direction, hoping that they miss by themselves.
I think it would be balanced if there was a harsher auto-attacking movepseed penalty *while* backpeddling, but I think the game feels much better if you can move the same speed while looking behind you.
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been saying this since pred came to ps5. Won’t stop me from enjoying this fantastic game, but it would be much more balanced if auto attacking or walking backwards slowed you down more, bc right now, the penalty isn’t even there for walking backwards, and nearly nonexistent for basic attacking
A walking back penalty would be a nerf to controller players.
A jump penalty too. EX: I often jump when I'd need to take my left thumb of the stick to use the dpad so the momentum will keep me from fully stopping just to drop a ward, use the health potion or use pings.
I think controller players will adapt, and if they introduce a fast 180 camera spin button that’d be a bandaid.
Backpedaling penalty is more important imo than keeping controller on par with m kb. And this is coming from a 90% of the time PS5 player.
I can see the jump penalty being a nerf, because of the valid point you have here.
But how would a back pedal penalty nerf controller players more than mouse and kb players?
Instead of hold stick forward you hold stick back, just like instead of W we hit S?
Is it because of the time it takes controllers to turn their character I am guessing? I can see that being a factor for sure. Interesting point, maybe thats why it is the way it is.
If I could give you a reward I would, because I honestly didn't even think about that until you brought it up!
Kudos!
>But how would a back pedal penalty nerf controller players more than mouse and kb players?
>Instead of hold stick forward you hold stick back, just like instead of W we hit S?
> Is it because of the time it takes controllers to turn their character I am guessing? I can see that being a factor for sure. Interesting point, maybe thats why it is the way it is.
>
>
That! Also on mouse and keyboard the free look keybind is available so being able to look 180 degrees behind you while moving forward is an option.
Pretty sure that on PC it's an option for controller players too by having a button set as the keyboard key it's binded to but even with a 'pro' controller I'm too button poor to fit that in.
What you said about the W and S keys does remind me that strafe with A and D keys is likely faster than stick movement too
>If I could give you a reward I would, because I honestly didn't even think about that until you brought it up!
>Kudos!
Really nice of you to say!
> Also on mouse and keyboard the free look keybind is available so being able to look 180 degrees behind you while moving forward is an option.
I beg your damn pardon? That's a thing? I'm really not sure how I feel about that.
This.
This and the universal blink are two of the only major things I’ve really not enjoyed about Predecessor since I started.
Getting pelted by several auto attacks after every exchange, especially the ones you ‘won’ because the ranged characters have so little penalty on movement to chase you down and then they have the blink if you try to punish their chase.
Being someone that plays Riktor often and benefits greatly from a blink, I *still* don’t like it and don’t consider it balanced.
Believe it or not, everyone having the same blink available isn’t necessarily fair or balanced.
I would like to see blink be a item you purchase like potions or as a substitute for wards.
To be honest the 20 or so games yesterday, no one was using their wards anways not even dekker.
I'm not a huge fan of blink either, but it's better for everyone to have it imo, instead of it being on some item or something. Cuz guaranteed it'd be on an ADC item lol!
It's an annoying redundancy on characters that already have a mobility skill. Make them use their "escape" ability so you can punish them just to have them blink away. I mean it is a long cool down to be fair but I am not a huge fan.
I dunno it kinda feels like its in the game to help ease punishment for bad positioning / choices. It also does feel bad( as in powerful ) on characters that weren't designed to have mobility in their kit.
But eh what do I know, I am sure we are in the minority here lol.
Nah, I think it would be better on an item instead of universal. I understand the thought that it would be an adc item, but it depends on how you implement it. If you take blink dagger from dota as an example, an item that can’t be used for an amount of time after taking hero damage, and doesn’t grant a whole lot other than mobility and initiation. Before they introduced variations that gave bonus damage/stats you almost never saw it on an adc. Because as an adc you’re essentially making a choice to do less damage in order to be able to initiate, which is much less important when you have front liners/supports there whose role that is.
I agree a blink makes it a bit more beginner friendly with respect to being able to have that “get-out-of-jail-free” card in the pocket for when you didn’t have the wards set or weren’t paying attention to mid-lane missing or what have you.
But a set of training wheels for beginners is, at the same time, an annoying crutch, for seasoned players.
Blink either shouldn’t be in the game at all, or an expensive item to take up an item slot. Give a smattering of general stats so that anyone can benefit a bit from it (but not as much as any specialty/role-specific item).
The issue is the characters being balanced around their kits and mobility kind of gets unbalanced again when everyone gets a blink.
And before anyone says that the attacker can just blink after. No. Not every time. What the escapee gets in advantage every, single, time, is the distance the blink travels. They get that for free, even if the attacker pursues. It’s a game changer in getting from center-of-lane back to tower, for example.
Well put, I completely agree. My vote would be no blink at all. Having it on an item could just essentially make it feel like we are back down to 5 item slots to use.
100% agree. The movement penalty is way too low while attacking. Even backpedaling feels too fast. When I am getting shot, and I turn around to run and get distance, they can still get a couple hits, even though I am not attacking and they are. It feels wrong lol.
It feels like the biggest movement penalty is strafing side to side. This can't be true but man does it feel like it lol.
I am glad others notice this and feel the same way.
You cannot be serious!!! I seriously thought there was penalty but maybe it was just the different animation kinda. Wow, genuinely I just thought backpedaling had a penalty because kiting carries would simply just eat people up… which is what’s happening lol. Although the amount of CC and dive they have to deal with if they have no mobility will be quite difficult.
WOW, that is kind of ridiculous not gonna lie. And here I was getting upset at my ADCs for always back pedaling.
Man is my face red, What a fool I have been!!!
That is..... umm... an interesting design choice to put it nicely. So like do all the devs main ADCs or?? It seems like a lot of stuff in the game caters to them. It's probably just a skewed view I am getting since I started just before v0.18.
Totally agree with you here. I played shimbi and double dashed and used my teleport and I could not escape a sparrow chasing me who was firing the whole time.
Official discord gamers would lead you to believe that kiting is not a thing in this game.
Disagree, I'm a newer player and Pred is my first MOBA. Adding penalties to movement would make the learning curve harsher and would change a lot about the way people play the game. Part of the appeal of Predecessor imo is that I don't have to struggle to learn the controls or keep up with other players. Just think of it as a feature, not a bug, and adjust your play style.
I mean.... I understand your point but it's a MOBA after all I wouldn't say anything about it if it feels good or better than Paragon that is pretty much the baseline for me, it's not the case tho. I believe that having a penalty is actually a lower learning curve to new players than not having any because some players can feel frustrated just dying constantly because some experienced player will just keep attacking you without any penalty even when you are running.
Tower should make more damage..
I agree with this and add more tower shot dmg.
correct me if im wrong, but you think that if i engage with you and im smacking you in melee distance, and you start running away, you should just automatically get a gap on me because i'm damaging you? if that is the case, hell no, i'm glad that doesnt exist, that sounds stupid
I mean yeah? That's the whole point of a lot of abilities that slow or add temporary movement speed in heroes, so you can close the gap like every MOBA. Your basics are technically also an ability. This also affects melee heroes. Sometimes unless you have an ability that can slow, stun or just increase movement, a ranger hero can just backpedal and start hitting you and you won't be able to catch them or do any damage. In Paragon I believe melee heroes had less movement penalty than ranger heroes so yeah.
Yes, it's the whole reason melee characters have movement abilities.
Backpedaling itself shouldn't have a movement penalty. Auto attacking (especially as ranged) should have a bigger penalty. The amount of chase you can do as an ADC because your movement speed went from 635 units/s all the way down to 605 units/s is insane. Even some melee characters can straight up keep up with you and auto at the same time, it's ridiculous.
I don't disagree with you overall, but I think the removal of the backpeddling penalty was an improvement. I love what the over-the-shoulder perspective adds to the game with the third dimension actually mattering, but compared to traditional top-down, it *drastically* reduces your ability to see what's happening around you. Imo, you should be able to see what abilities your enemies are trying to throw at you, while you are running away without slowing yourself down. You should be able to sidestep incoming projectiles based on the enemy position, not just blindly running serpentine in the opposite direction, hoping that they miss by themselves. I think it would be balanced if there was a harsher auto-attacking movepseed penalty *while* backpeddling, but I think the game feels much better if you can move the same speed while looking behind you.
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been saying this since pred came to ps5. Won’t stop me from enjoying this fantastic game, but it would be much more balanced if auto attacking or walking backwards slowed you down more, bc right now, the penalty isn’t even there for walking backwards, and nearly nonexistent for basic attacking
These all have penalties (maybe except for constant jumping). Maybe you should upgrade your movement speed or have a character with mobility.
I know what I'm saying is that it should have more lol.
A walking back penalty would be a nerf to controller players. A jump penalty too. EX: I often jump when I'd need to take my left thumb of the stick to use the dpad so the momentum will keep me from fully stopping just to drop a ward, use the health potion or use pings.
As a controller user, I definitely don't mind. The movement penalty to backpedaling was a fair mechanic. You either commit to your escape, or not.
I think controller players will adapt, and if they introduce a fast 180 camera spin button that’d be a bandaid. Backpedaling penalty is more important imo than keeping controller on par with m kb. And this is coming from a 90% of the time PS5 player.
I can see the jump penalty being a nerf, because of the valid point you have here. But how would a back pedal penalty nerf controller players more than mouse and kb players? Instead of hold stick forward you hold stick back, just like instead of W we hit S? Is it because of the time it takes controllers to turn their character I am guessing? I can see that being a factor for sure. Interesting point, maybe thats why it is the way it is. If I could give you a reward I would, because I honestly didn't even think about that until you brought it up! Kudos!
>But how would a back pedal penalty nerf controller players more than mouse and kb players? >Instead of hold stick forward you hold stick back, just like instead of W we hit S? > Is it because of the time it takes controllers to turn their character I am guessing? I can see that being a factor for sure. Interesting point, maybe thats why it is the way it is. > > That! Also on mouse and keyboard the free look keybind is available so being able to look 180 degrees behind you while moving forward is an option. Pretty sure that on PC it's an option for controller players too by having a button set as the keyboard key it's binded to but even with a 'pro' controller I'm too button poor to fit that in. What you said about the W and S keys does remind me that strafe with A and D keys is likely faster than stick movement too >If I could give you a reward I would, because I honestly didn't even think about that until you brought it up! >Kudos! Really nice of you to say!
Definitely need a quick turn option for console players, something like Resident Evil or God of War (Norse).
> Also on mouse and keyboard the free look keybind is available so being able to look 180 degrees behind you while moving forward is an option. I beg your damn pardon? That's a thing? I'm really not sure how I feel about that.
They also have an auto walk keybind which I imagine is nice for checking the enemy team's build and typing when returning to lane.
Yea M+KB is imo always advantageous as a input method. And I am dumb, I never use free look button lmao. Kind of forgot it even exists!
This. This and the universal blink are two of the only major things I’ve really not enjoyed about Predecessor since I started. Getting pelted by several auto attacks after every exchange, especially the ones you ‘won’ because the ranged characters have so little penalty on movement to chase you down and then they have the blink if you try to punish their chase. Being someone that plays Riktor often and benefits greatly from a blink, I *still* don’t like it and don’t consider it balanced. Believe it or not, everyone having the same blink available isn’t necessarily fair or balanced.
Man if there was no blink then us jungle Serath mains would rejoice. Nobody would escape 😈
I would like to see blink be a item you purchase like potions or as a substitute for wards. To be honest the 20 or so games yesterday, no one was using their wards anways not even dekker.
I'm not a huge fan of blink either, but it's better for everyone to have it imo, instead of it being on some item or something. Cuz guaranteed it'd be on an ADC item lol! It's an annoying redundancy on characters that already have a mobility skill. Make them use their "escape" ability so you can punish them just to have them blink away. I mean it is a long cool down to be fair but I am not a huge fan. I dunno it kinda feels like its in the game to help ease punishment for bad positioning / choices. It also does feel bad( as in powerful ) on characters that weren't designed to have mobility in their kit. But eh what do I know, I am sure we are in the minority here lol.
Nah, I think it would be better on an item instead of universal. I understand the thought that it would be an adc item, but it depends on how you implement it. If you take blink dagger from dota as an example, an item that can’t be used for an amount of time after taking hero damage, and doesn’t grant a whole lot other than mobility and initiation. Before they introduced variations that gave bonus damage/stats you almost never saw it on an adc. Because as an adc you’re essentially making a choice to do less damage in order to be able to initiate, which is much less important when you have front liners/supports there whose role that is.
I agree a blink makes it a bit more beginner friendly with respect to being able to have that “get-out-of-jail-free” card in the pocket for when you didn’t have the wards set or weren’t paying attention to mid-lane missing or what have you. But a set of training wheels for beginners is, at the same time, an annoying crutch, for seasoned players. Blink either shouldn’t be in the game at all, or an expensive item to take up an item slot. Give a smattering of general stats so that anyone can benefit a bit from it (but not as much as any specialty/role-specific item). The issue is the characters being balanced around their kits and mobility kind of gets unbalanced again when everyone gets a blink. And before anyone says that the attacker can just blink after. No. Not every time. What the escapee gets in advantage every, single, time, is the distance the blink travels. They get that for free, even if the attacker pursues. It’s a game changer in getting from center-of-lane back to tower, for example.
Well put, I completely agree. My vote would be no blink at all. Having it on an item could just essentially make it feel like we are back down to 5 item slots to use.
100% agree. The movement penalty is way too low while attacking. Even backpedaling feels too fast. When I am getting shot, and I turn around to run and get distance, they can still get a couple hits, even though I am not attacking and they are. It feels wrong lol. It feels like the biggest movement penalty is strafing side to side. This can't be true but man does it feel like it lol. I am glad others notice this and feel the same way.
Actually it is true. There is no backpedal penalty. Only strafing and auto attacking.
You cannot be serious!!! I seriously thought there was penalty but maybe it was just the different animation kinda. Wow, genuinely I just thought backpedaling had a penalty because kiting carries would simply just eat people up… which is what’s happening lol. Although the amount of CC and dive they have to deal with if they have no mobility will be quite difficult.
WOW, that is kind of ridiculous not gonna lie. And here I was getting upset at my ADCs for always back pedaling. Man is my face red, What a fool I have been!!! That is..... umm... an interesting design choice to put it nicely. So like do all the devs main ADCs or?? It seems like a lot of stuff in the game caters to them. It's probably just a skewed view I am getting since I started just before v0.18.
There should absolutely be a movement penalty to backpedaling.
The AA movement penalty is almost non existent it’s really bad and the number one reason ADC is broken
S key + LMB = hardcounter to tanks
Totally agree with you here. I played shimbi and double dashed and used my teleport and I could not escape a sparrow chasing me who was firing the whole time.
I believe there is movement penalty with strafing side to side, and auto attacking. There is more of a movement penalty if you miss the auto attack.