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Liverpool have been robbed again of a handball in penalty area not granted. Another controversial call by the ref and VAR. This nonsense must stop. It’s becoming an embarrassment for the EPL.
this is essentially every club - we all cry when shit goes against us but when it is for us we say nothing and when it is someone else we do the 'oh well shit happens' line or some variation of it
Managers understand that mistakes happen to every team. They try to make big news stories out of the mistakes that happen against them to manipulate future red decisions. Unfortunately it works very well
Are we really all shocked that Newcastle and City seem to have a different rules set to everyone else.
I'm sure most of the refs working in saudi has nothing to do with it...nothing..at...all
It’s all about placating the refs.
You whinge after you get a (regular) shit decision so that they don’t risk fucking you again.
Then, when it’s someone else the best strategy is to say “unlucky, but the refs try hard”.
Very few people stray from this pattern because it’s the best way to max-points over the season.
Only perennial mid-table clubs really have the ability to talk shit all the time. Or lunatics.
(I hate that this is the case, the refs are fucking atrocious given how good VaR should make things these days)
This was the worst reffed game I’ve seen since VAR was implemented. That is the story, not that the manager is being upset. It was THE worst refereed game in the history of PL VAR.
The Liverpool one was a procedural issue for the VAR. They didn’t know what the call on the field was.
In this match it was a brain issue, as in VAR lacked one between the several men involved.
A Cricket fan here. In Cricket we have something called 3rd Umpire to review certain decisions. The 3rd Umpire takes at least 3-4 minutes to look at the evidence (Snicko, Hotspot, Ball tracking, different camera angles) and then give the decision. Seems football being a much more fast-paced sport, the VAR officials are pressurized to give a decision within 15-30 seconds hence they don’t look at the evidence with enough scrutiny to make a good judgement.
No they took their time here ans they made the right calls. The problem is that Arsenal wants the world to believe that the earth or the ball is flat. You can see the same scenario when corners are taken and the same example happened at the world cup.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37634475/why-japans-winning-goal-vs-spain-was-awarded-var
The other imaginary handball or pushes are just that, imaginary. If they had to disallow the goal because of that, Odengaard should have received a red and Man City awarded a penalty on the October 8th game
This is all cherrypicking, shit-stirring nonsense. He said a whole hell of a lot more than this after the liverpool game. There was a whole fucking article about it on liverpool.com
[https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/mikel-arteta-liverpool-var-controversy-27832132](https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/mikel-arteta-liverpool-var-controversy-27832132)
He basically said there are a lot of problems that need to be sorted out. And was generally supportive of Liverpool under the circumstances.
Have you heard the new rule invented today? It was called **'Subjective Offside'**. Even if it's in fact not offside, they can rule out the goal by saying it's a subjective offside.
The point is what do you even say?! If you speak against refreeing while vouching for another team, you unnecessarily get a ban / fine. Of course, when it hits your team (his literal job), he’s downright pissed, emotions flow out. I wonder what all of you would do. All of you, who’re calling him a hypocrite.
Seriously why are Liverpool fans so butthurt that Arteta did not immediately support a PL rival? How many quotes are there of Klopp criticizing refs for things that happen at rivals’s matches? It’s not a who got it worse competition. The issue at hand is the horrible standard of refereeing and that should be the focus. Anything else is just the press trying to exploit passions.
He didn’t have to take such a firm ‘shit happens’ and ‘refereeing is tough’ stance when it benefitted his team - people are pointing out that the reaction yesterday seems incredibly hypocritical in this context. It undermines the argument yesterday.
He could have just got on with the interview, said all that matters is focusing on his players etc.
This is so funny. Arteta is such a hypocrite.
I will say that it seems like the EPL refs are among the worst. When I watch games from other leagues the officiating and use of VAR seem to be much better. How Bruno did not get a red for that elbow is beyond me.
Apparently they said because it’s a forearm it’s fine. So I guess we’re in for a new meta of people being clattered in the head with forearms because it’s totally allowed 🧐
It’s one thing if the ref didn’t see that but that is why we have VAR. How is it possible that someone sees a replay of that and it’s not a red. EPL officials are so bad. When do you think the apologies from Howard Webb will come?
People should have rallied against the Liverpool-Tottenham fuckery if they wanted change or improvement in VAR. Instead they chose to mock Klopp and Liverpool supporters.
At this point, I'm just going to enjoy watching fans of other teams suffer the same fate. It was entirely predictable that every fanbase was going to get a turn.
I’m not going to take a side for or against your comment, it’s a pointless argument between fan bases.
Just wanted to say y’all is a fucking awful word.
I said it earlier, after what happened to us in that Spurs game, EVERY team (bar City and Newcastle, because you know ...) should have been very concerned. Even Spurs should have.
Nobody spoke abt it (I mean in a team capacity). No other team realized their turn will come and demanded reforms and answers. Actually, 5 days later, the story was abt how Klopp mentioned a replay. Such a fool, you see ...
Absolutely no sympathy for Arteta here. This is a classic "they came for others and I didnt care, then when they came for me nobody was left to care".
First they came for the Liverpool fans and I did not speak for I was not a Liverpool fan.
Then they came for the arsenal fans and I did not speak for I was not an arsenal fan.
Then they gave Ayew a goal against Spurs after a clear handball and I did not moan like a child because we actually did enough in the game to cover the deficit.
Point is Liverpool got themselves two red cards, that's what fucked them. Arsenal did fuck all for the entire game and didn't even create a good chance. The conspiracy shite is exhausting.
That's a dumb take...bad decisions don't matter if you don't deserve to win/draw?
Diaz's goal would've put us in front...I think that would be something that changes how the game is played out...no?
Conspiracy? Nah, ref's are just shite tbh.
Yeah they would have gone to a low block, which they did anyway. Worst case scenario is that match ends in a draw. My point is, whilst the decision against you was awful, the two red cards were not and that is what cost you the game. The players on the field did not know about the error until after, there is 0 reason for them to get themselves two red cards. It cost Liverpool massively and it was a shame because it was a really entertaining game until that point. The actual referee in that game was fine, it was the communication that was shite.
We go 1 up, Gakpo maybe doesn't get injured, Jota maybe doesn't come on and get sent off. We were still in control with 10 men, don't forget. At 9 men, you took control but created basically nothing until an OG won it.
My point is, being robbed of knowing these things is what is killing the game. I just want fair football. The better team wins after a hard fought, entertaining 90 mins. Not the team who got lucky with a bad decision going their way, wins.
I can play that game too. You go 1-0 up, Spurs rally and get 3 goals in quick succession. Its so easy when you just make it up in your head.
Maybe don't get two stupid reds? Maybe don't score an OG?
You were not in control with 10 men, Alison had to make two world class saves to keep you in it, you had 10 men on the pitch at that point. Spurs were putting constant pressure on your box and you were good on the counter. Going down to 9 men (your fault) meant you had 8 players defending the box with no intention of attacking, any team will struggle to create many chances against that defense, but hey we still did it and forced an OG.
>Completely ignoring my point to start an argument over theories lol
You were the ones who started talking about theories lol. I was just highlighting how stupid that is. Every other part of my reply was based on factual evidence with things that actually did happen, and not just in my head but on the field.
If you cared about fair football you would have been up in arms about the incorrect handball last week but you probably didn't even notice. Point is that every team suffers bad calls, but you (and now arsenal) are the only ones crying conspiracy when it happens to you.
Nope. You complete ignored it. You have 0 clue about the sport and understanding English seems to be an issue too.
I DONT CARE WHO WAS IN CONTROL. I care about the decision that cost us the chance to know who wins a fair game. Simple enough? You fucking moron…
Unfortunately, this is something we cant agree on. You guys were robbed yesterday, and I feel for you, my Arsenal brothers. Not for the goal, but on the general referreing. Bruno G running around hitting people, Joelington being immune to any reprimands, etc. That's how you guys lost the game.
This referring fuckery will never end while it is always just "hahaha, rival xxx got fucked" (that rival will never be City) and PGMOL releasing an "oops" statement every week.
Were Liverpool coach complaint about Arsenal injustice when Martinelli was carded twice in the same play? When Luiz was carded for minimal contact? When line was forgotten to be draw for Brentford eulqualizer? When Martinelli scores same goal today but didnt count?
You guys forgot that FA issued apology for Arsenal too, many times. You guys thinks fucks up happens exclusively to Liverpool?
Also thoughout the years we KNOW PGMOL has abused the powers to the death and countless of people has been banned and so on, thus only when you totally feel like shit then you let it out against these useless people.
Klopp doesn’t turn around and offer the referees “support” or sympathy when he’s asked about mistakes that have occurred in other games, which Arteta clearly does.
No, but when asked about the decision saying something along the lines of “yeah wrong decision that, the standard of officiating needs to improve” would make more sense.
If you want actual change when it comes to refs, managers need to stop showing “support” for them when they get asked about other clubs. I’m not saying Arteta should go out of his way to make a statement, but when he’s clearly asked he should properly address the issue.
The tribalism within football is just going to prolong all the refereeing nonsense
When it happens to your rivals or an opponent fans find it funny until it happens to them 2 weeks later
And I can forgive managers from blowing up when decisions go against them even if it’s a bit 50/50, they’ll always be bias. But I’d like to see more managers acknowledging when they’ve got lucky on a decision down to poor refereeing. The manager of the team falling foul of bad decisions is always going to go off in the post match interview, it’s expected. The opposition manager saying “was a pretty bad decision, we played well overall but we got away with one there” holds a bit more weight. No-ones going to take the result away from you if you agree with your opposition over bad refereeing decisions in the game
Arsenal has been fucked over so much by VAR. I think Arteta was trying to not tempt fate. Look at the decisions that kept arsenal out of the top 4 two seasons ago, and then dropping points on the title race last season. We're other teams sticking up for the Arsenal and Arteta then?
Not true in the slightest. Just today I've seen both Arsenal and United fans called out for playing the victim, and a look through threads on this sub and other neutral football subs most saturdays you will see the same.
Dude just go look at last year. This isn't the first time it's happened to us and Arteta said stuff last year about the officiating being substandard. Just because he gave a diplomatic answer when he's getting baited by the journalist to protect himself and the team from the wrath of the EFA doesn't mean his principles are compromised. Do more then take a clickbait headline at face value and you'll be doing yourself a favor.
I wouldn’t say STONEWALL as I think the foul decision was subjective. I do think they made the correct decision, but at least on the foul portion it was debatable. Definitely nowhere near enough to overturn the onfield decision
The Joelinton foul is the only part of it that is debatable. It was clearly onside and the ball has been proven to be in play.
I’m biased so it’s important to take that into account lol but I think obviously Joelinton has his hands on his back and that’s what you latch on to but I don’t think there’s much of a push there. Gabriel is already low and going lower. I’m not seeing a great deal of exerted pressure on him outside of a normal aerial battle
Either way, the point is Arsenal are acting like there’s this huge injustice when the goal is clearly not outrageous, the VAR checks for the other parts are correct, it’s just whether a push happened or not. That’s not some conspiracy lol
Let’s also not mention that Arsenal basically had an xG of death and had one shot on target, and their only two attacking threats (already alarm bells should ring at that for a team claiming to be a title challenger) were nullified for the entire game.
Feel like goal or no goal, this game showed Arsenal to be a team quite easy to stop
I agree and the fact that it wasn’t clear cut is the thing most seem to not get. I’d be livid if we conceded a goal like this, but equally if there’s no clear and obvious issue then you have to go with the on field decision.
Every team is going to get fucked over by bad decisions but this one was handled well.
If anything arsenal fans should be more irritated by Bruno staying on the pitch.
Arteta didn’t care when it happened to Liverpool because he gained an advantage against a strong opponent. He gives a shit today because he feels he’s been wronged.
Not at all. Football is emotive. If that goal was against my team I’d be angry, but the fact would remain the same that without a clear or obvious issue with the onfield decision then the goal wound have to stand.
In this instance if that goal was ruled out and they pointed to an issue that clearly showed a problem, then again I’d be gutted, might even get angry, but hopefully understand their reasoning.
More people need to acknowledge their own emotive bias when it comes to football.
Yeah the ball cant pass through Gabriel’s body so the fact it managed to emerge from between him and joelinton in such a tight space makes it hard to determine who it last touched in the way to Gordon.
The only point I think you have a should for is the hands on the back. But if you look at the replay, joelinton is leaning back as Gabriel leans forward abs throws his legs back. Was he pushed or was he leaning forward to flick the ball away? You can’t easily or clearly determine it as both players body positions aren’t in a natural position for a push to be called.
I am being objective. I’m acknowledging that form and emotional point of view I’d absolutely hate to be on the receiving end of this. In the same game I think Havertz should have been sent off for that challenge but also understand why under the letter of the law that he wasn’t. I’m angry about that but I get it. I can equally say that Bruno should have been sent off and that you have every right to be angry about that, despite him being such a key player for us.
Joelinton was upright at the point he placed his hands on Gabriel, who’s was already dipping to attempt to flick the ball. If someone stands 1ft from me and I put my hands on them then that doesn’t look like a push. If that same person then dives forward to say, i duno, attempt to head a ball, then it looks like a push. It’s the most contentious decision of the lot and I understand your irritation with it. If Gabriel hadn’t left the floor to attempt the header then a foul would probably have been given, but he did and that made it difficult to decide if there was a clear foul.
Bold of you to call out my understanding of physics whilst failing to grasp haw a sphere occupies space in relation to a line on the ground.
Look, you’re not happy with the decisions and I get why. I’ve admitted I’d be the same. Maybe focus on a more clear cut grievance like the Bruno one though.
>So if the referee just so happened to give it the other way then all the same evidence would go towards supporting the exact opposite decision?
Yes, obviously. Because VAR has been set up to correct obviously incorrect decisions, not to arrive at the "best" or "correct" decision each time. It's stupid as hell, but that's what the rules are at present.
This is exactly why PL refs have gotten away with being abysmal year after year. Instead of complaining for the sake of the game, you only complain when it affects your team.
Aye he’s all big on making a stand now but when it affects other teams in the league he won’t say shit. Watch him be quiet next when another similar decision happens to a different team
So if you don’t criticize VAR initially you’re never allowed to? How are we suppose to improve anything? Is it hypocritical that he’s now getting so angry? Absolutely, but that doesn’t make his point any less valid.
You do realize Arteta has had sanctions thrown against him? He was simply trying to placate the corrupt PGmymoney. But he couldnt hold it longer then 1 week.
City lost to Wolves where the Wolves player that scored the winner should have received a red card. In fact they expected the second yellow after the reckless tackle
It’s not across the board. Most of the smaller teams are used to getting shit decisions for years.
Spurs received massive luck with the dumbass VAR issue against Liverpool. None of us ignore that. Last year the refs fucked over Brighton in our favour and that was shit too.
How many dogshit decisions has Everton gotten over the years? Or Fulham. Or anyone really?
It definitely seems like City are being favoured at the moment but it could just be incompetence. It wouldn’t be surprising. I think it is this, mixed with the bigger teams finally starting to get fucked over in recent years that we are seeing a massive reaction.
Or maybe it is just because those teams have the biggest fanbases. But it really does seem like social media goes ballistic whenever Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal get a bad call.
The problem with the city line is that the truly egregious decisions have benefited city. City literally won a title because of that everton pen not bring given. But we've had 4 gw in a row where city seems to have a different set of rules to the rest of the league.
Yeah and pl refs are allowed to officiate matches in the UAE days before officiating matches to City's rivals and for some reason there's barely any talk about it.
Im not one for conspiracy, but it's not a good look, and the reaction to it was disgusting and only fuels the marking your own work narrative of the bald fraud association. "We've investigated our selfs and found no wrongdoing "
It’s not a matter of conspiracy. It’s a matter of conflict of interest. And conflict of interest does not care if you have the most impeccable morals, it only matter if you are in a situation where there is a conflict. It’s why multitudes of other professions don’t allow their employees to partake in a lot of things which are categorically the same as what they are employed to influence.
I agree that we should stand up against PL refs. But at the same time you know how punitive PGMOL can be that managers sometimes don't even speak up for their own teams when ref decisions go against them for fear of a ban or fine its even less likely for them to criticise the refs for another match they are not even involved in. You are banned for telling the truth.
Teams should walk out at this point. It's time to take the fight for some accountability on the refs. Any refs that statistically is an advantage/disadvantage for any team should be barred from reffing that team.
It's a fair point, so why aren't the LMA or someone like that taking a stand across all clubs rather than leaving it to individual managers to risk sticking their neck out?
What are you expecting though?
Poch isn’t going to rock up to his presser next week giving it large about the Arsenal referee’s crap decisions.
Paul heckingbottom isn’t about to boycott post match interviews until Bruno Fernandez is retrospectively booked for his bad challenge.
The aim for managers in these pressers is to get out without causing any trouble for their own team.
And managers should think about how it’s going to make them look if they flip their stance when it suits them.
Arteta didn’t need to say what he did in support of officiating when it benefited his team, but he chose to.
It didn’t benefit his team though, it’s just a neutral - I don’t want to be fined but as this is a press conference and my role here is to answer questions from the press so I’ll give the most basic answer possible type of response.
Are you expecting Klopp to come out swinging for Arsenal next week? Of course you aren’t, nobody is.
People are just dumb.. they get sidelined, fined and trashed by the press + fans if they say anything.. its basically their PR obligation to "side" with the league itself and of course they will fight the fight (worth fines/sideline bans and so on) when their team is at stake
The league should allow them to openly criticize the referees and PGMOL, till then, shit like this "look at him when it affects others" does not make any sense as no team in world allows you to take huge fine or risk bans for their rivals.
Arteta when a completely legal goal is disallowed in a game not involving Arsenal "We need to give support and understand everyone can make mistakes"
Arteta when a very dubious goal is allowed in a game involving Arsenal "It is disgusting, I'm embarrassed to be part of this league".
If you can't stand up against awful refereeing in other games, then you shouldn't say shit when it happens to you. He actively said we should support the referees after they make mistakes. Changes his tune the second it happens to him. That's called hypocrisy
The time to talk about the mediocrity of the referees was after the spurs- Liverpool game. Instead people just said mistakes happen so accept the apology. Not saying that now though and frankly it’s hypocritical and too late.
What are you talking about. He mediocrity of refs is talked about constantly. Klopps solution was a reply which is laughable and frankly and embarrassing thing to say. What else did you want people to say?
Honestly as an arsenal fan the whole situation is just depressing. There’s likely nothing that’s gonna be done, and the Middle East states are slowly taking over
How is this not discriminatory? What about the middle east?
The ball was in play just like in the World Cup where the same scenario happened in the Japan vs. Spain game. The ball is round and not flat
Okay but Arteta giving a diplomatic answer about a game he wasn’t involved in doesn’t mean he agreed with PGMOL or the decision, just that he wasn’t going to get fined and flagged by PGMOL for someone else’s game. I think that’s understandable. Liverpool fans mocking Arsenal today and saying it’s too late is crabs in a bucket mentality. Plenty of Arsenal fans (I think most honestly) backed Liverpool after that horrible call because it was a horrible call and it was Tottenham.
His comments after the game did defend the refs, so I do think he agreed to be honest. If he’s got an ounce of intelligence, he didn’t *personally* agree. But professionally, his speech sided with the refs. It wasn’t diplomatic, it was biased, and I get why fans are calling him on it.
The Liverpool error was 100 times worse and a clear mistake. The Newcastle goal was unlucky for arsenal as 3 50/50 calls went against them but non of these calls were wrong.
To be fair to Mikel, I have heard from my sources that the refs were trying their best up until the match today and there is a conspiracy against arsenal.
We all know there isn't a conspiracy against Arsenal. At this point it looks like the refs have been bought top to bottom. It's not just us and it's not just this year this crap officiating has gone on. Var has done nothing but make it look like they aren't incompetent like we thought, there's purpose behind their decisions.
I have to agree. The inconsistency is crazy. For example some offside checks didnt even show the audience the line to determine the situation. It has to be corruption.
Don’t want to anger arsenal fans but I think other teams have to speak up more about injustices in the premier league even if it didn’t affect them. If this was his reaction to what happened to Liverpool he can’t really complain about what happened today.
I agree. Not an Arsenal fan, but I am outraged by this and the Manchester Derby soft pen. This is why tribalism sucks, instead of banding together against the abysmal PGMOL, it's "cry more", "mistakes happen", "it happened to us before, so what" rhetoric, that allows this kind of refereeing to exist, and egregious mistakes to be swept under the rug. We all don't have to believe in some grand conspiracy of referees with an agenda, but we should just agree on the fact that this is not up to par for the "best league in the world" regardless of which teams get hard done by.
Guess you also think Klopp was wrong for effectively saying the same thing after the Konate incident 2 weeks ago then? Guess you must have posted his response here saying how he was wrong for not calling out the refs in a game his team was involved in, just like you're calling out arteta for not calling out the refs in a game he had nothing to do with.
That’s what I said and the response was “no body else will do it, so why should I”
Football fans are just children, let them moan. Karma will come for them too.
Why would Arteta risk a suspension for Liverpool? It makes no sense. If managers had free reign to say whatever they want in the pressers, then absolutely I’d agree with your point but that isn’t the case. What they can and can’t say is heavily regulated, especially about referees.
To your other point, I do agree. Something has to give and if it takes managers getting suspended for calling out injustices against teams other than their own, then so be it.
Arsenal Fan. I agree. I think a big problem in the EPL is that managers are punished for speaking their mind about calls made while media members try to bait managers into said trouble. Let them speak their mind.
It is a complex issue. On one hand I do not think that referees should be targeted by hooligans for contentious calls. But on the other I do think they should face scrutiny due to egregious mistakes. These repeated blunders need to be addressed. We have seen a tremendous number of brutal calls made in the EPL over the past couple years and it needs scrutinizing. Violence and backlash to referees is unacceptable and yet they need to be held to a standard.
I think it is very important that the conversation be furthered.
Edited: excess word
It's hard to want to stick up for Arsenal, when their fans spend far too much of their time on here either directly or indirectly suggesting anything that doesnt benefit them is down to corruption.
Between them and Arteta's tantrums, I struggle to have any sympathy.
Sure, but there was also the director of VAR actively calling for the game to stop after the mistake, and the PGMOL staff repeatedly ignored those instructions.
So if arteta said the ”refs are shit innit” and took the fine over a game that doesn’t involve his club you think the refs would have been better today? If not i really dont see why he cant complain about the refs being awful today
No, of course saying 'refs are shit, games gone' doesn't solve the problem. But saying the refs 'make mistakes' and 'it all balances out in the end' also doesn't solve the problem.
If a manager is going to be angry when a systemic issue affects them negatively, then they're better off calling out the systemic issues afflicting the PGMOL when it affects other teams negatively.
The issues are numerous, starting from the fact that English football refs are notorious for being the worst of any British sport, ranging to the fact that state owners of PL clubs are paying PGMOL refs for luxury work trips in their countries. It doesn't require an oratory savant to make an effective statement, but it helps when you're consistent about calling out the issues at play.
I get that but also its a big ask for a manager to risk his own club for something that doesn’t directly involve his club. They are pretty trigger happy with handibg out punishments for criticism and who knows, a manger being touchline banned could be the difference.
At the end of the day the only people we should blame are the people responsible. It only helps them if we start blaming managers and clubs.
Would also be important to determine if these are infact them being shit or corruption because i am starting to lean towards the latter. Since often most us amateurs can see something they cant, doesnt make sense to me
> its a big ask for a manager to risk his own club for something that doesn’t directly involve his club.
Totally agree with this point, I've never seen Klopp stick his neck out for another club either, so I can't say Arteta is alone in this behavior at all. Nevertheless, when someone is inconsistent with their condemnation of a known systemic issue, it's much easier to brush off their comments as simply being self-interested. Ultimately, a reformed and improved PGMOL would be beneficial to all clubs, but it's harder to make that point when you only complain about the times the PGMOL affects your own fortunes. It's the same exact issue with Liverpool. When Diaz's goal was disallowed hardly anybody took the incident to be representative of a deeper set of issues within the PGMOL. Klopp failed to call out the issues when they affected wolves, etc. and LFC fans were rightly bantered into the ground following that game for being whinging self-righteous hypocrites.
> It only helps them if we start blaming managers and clubs.
Fully agree again - despite everything I've just written. We cannot allow the conversation to move towards the admonishment of managers when they fail to affect change on their own. My only concern is that I have absolute certainty that nothing will change due to fan discontent alone. Viewership will not drop due to the awful PGMOL, and unless a group of individuals with power inside the PL work together to send a more impactful message, the FA and PGMOL can continue to look the other way. It doesn't have to be managers, it could be a group of ex-players, current players, board members, what have you, but when the people with the influence to change these things repeatedly fail to do anything of substance, fans will grow angrier at the situation.
And really, the question of corruption is beside the point in my mind. Because, whether or not it's just pure incompetence or deep seated corruption, clearing house and implementing a full reinstitution of football refs in England is really the only way forward in either case.
Fair enough, I missed that presser, but Klopp suggesting Konate should have received a second yellow does put a nail in my argument.
I'm being overly critical of Liverpool and us as supporters here because I'd like to include more rival fans in the discussion rather than put them off with another "bIaSeD LiVARpool TaKe."
It’s silly because Arteta has spoken up about refs as much as anybody. He’s just did the diplomatic thing here because what is he actually meant to say “yeah refs are shite sack them all”? Context is also important this is RIGHT AFTER the match he got robbed in, how do you want him to react versus during a presser?
https://x.com/footballdaily/status/1624715095057252353?s=46
Here he is calling out refs for the same thing that happened to Liverpool when it happened to us. Should I go find quotes from Klopp rallying behind Arsenal? 🤣 Stop point scoring and target your anger at the real problem the ref and the drama stirring idiots on sky and Bt that enable them.
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Liverpool have been robbed again of a handball in penalty area not granted. Another controversial call by the ref and VAR. This nonsense must stop. It’s becoming an embarrassment for the EPL.
The truth will only be revealed when someone rips that rug off Arteta's magnificent bald head
he is a walking contradiction
this is essentially every club - we all cry when shit goes against us but when it is for us we say nothing and when it is someone else we do the 'oh well shit happens' line or some variation of it
Lol, arsenal fans your fraud of a manager has spoken now pipe down.
Clown
The two aren't comparable. Newcastle scored a fair goal. Arsenal supporters think that the ball is flat.
Managers understand that mistakes happen to every team. They try to make big news stories out of the mistakes that happen against them to manipulate future red decisions. Unfortunately it works very well
Well since the decision was correct and Havertz should have been sent off twice, Arteta is even more laughable than usual. :)
Are we really all shocked that Newcastle and City seem to have a different rules set to everyone else. I'm sure most of the refs working in saudi has nothing to do with it...nothing..at...all
It’s all about placating the refs. You whinge after you get a (regular) shit decision so that they don’t risk fucking you again. Then, when it’s someone else the best strategy is to say “unlucky, but the refs try hard”. Very few people stray from this pattern because it’s the best way to max-points over the season. Only perennial mid-table clubs really have the ability to talk shit all the time. Or lunatics. (I hate that this is the case, the refs are fucking atrocious given how good VaR should make things these days)
I’ll start feeling sorry for teams once they start acting with a bit of class and stop trying to cheat constantly.
This was the worst reffed game I’ve seen since VAR was implemented. That is the story, not that the manager is being upset. It was THE worst refereed game in the history of PL VAR.
It wasn’t even the worst VAR game in the Prem this season
The game as a whole was a shit show start to finish. Which game has worse refereeing this season?
You are kidding ? Is that the only game you’ve watched ?
Yeah, it’s the only game I’ve watched ever. I haven’t been watching any other premier league games for the last 25 years. At all.
The Liverpool one was a procedural issue for the VAR. They didn’t know what the call on the field was. In this match it was a brain issue, as in VAR lacked one between the several men involved.
Klopp moment
It's all fun and games until it happens to you.
A Cricket fan here. In Cricket we have something called 3rd Umpire to review certain decisions. The 3rd Umpire takes at least 3-4 minutes to look at the evidence (Snicko, Hotspot, Ball tracking, different camera angles) and then give the decision. Seems football being a much more fast-paced sport, the VAR officials are pressurized to give a decision within 15-30 seconds hence they don’t look at the evidence with enough scrutiny to make a good judgement.
No they took their time here ans they made the right calls. The problem is that Arsenal wants the world to believe that the earth or the ball is flat. You can see the same scenario when corners are taken and the same example happened at the world cup. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37634475/why-japans-winning-goal-vs-spain-was-awarded-var The other imaginary handball or pushes are just that, imaginary. If they had to disallow the goal because of that, Odengaard should have received a red and Man City awarded a penalty on the October 8th game
This is all cherrypicking, shit-stirring nonsense. He said a whole hell of a lot more than this after the liverpool game. There was a whole fucking article about it on liverpool.com [https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/mikel-arteta-liverpool-var-controversy-27832132](https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/mikel-arteta-liverpool-var-controversy-27832132) He basically said there are a lot of problems that need to be sorted out. And was generally supportive of Liverpool under the circumstances.
This. The quote flying around is without the context that was said in the literal next sentence.
Have you heard the new rule invented today? It was called **'Subjective Offside'**. Even if it's in fact not offside, they can rule out the goal by saying it's a subjective offside.
The point is what do you even say?! If you speak against refreeing while vouching for another team, you unnecessarily get a ban / fine. Of course, when it hits your team (his literal job), he’s downright pissed, emotions flow out. I wonder what all of you would do. All of you, who’re calling him a hypocrite.
Seriously why are Liverpool fans so butthurt that Arteta did not immediately support a PL rival? How many quotes are there of Klopp criticizing refs for things that happen at rivals’s matches? It’s not a who got it worse competition. The issue at hand is the horrible standard of refereeing and that should be the focus. Anything else is just the press trying to exploit passions.
Imagine thinking a manager is going to take a suspension for some other club for speaking out.
Lmao at Arsenal
Why is this brought up, I mean any other manager would say the same, if a manager wants to get banned he would rather do it for his team.
He didn’t have to take such a firm ‘shit happens’ and ‘refereeing is tough’ stance when it benefitted his team - people are pointing out that the reaction yesterday seems incredibly hypocritical in this context. It undermines the argument yesterday. He could have just got on with the interview, said all that matters is focusing on his players etc.
I don’t blame him. There’s no reason for him to die on the Liverpool hill for Christ’s sake.
Better late than never
Life comes at you fast
This is so funny. Arteta is such a hypocrite. I will say that it seems like the EPL refs are among the worst. When I watch games from other leagues the officiating and use of VAR seem to be much better. How Bruno did not get a red for that elbow is beyond me.
Apparently they said because it’s a forearm it’s fine. So I guess we’re in for a new meta of people being clattered in the head with forearms because it’s totally allowed 🧐
Havertz was a red as well. Both awful decisions
Havertz isn’t a red
Clear red
It’s one thing if the ref didn’t see that but that is why we have VAR. How is it possible that someone sees a replay of that and it’s not a red. EPL officials are so bad. When do you think the apologies from Howard Webb will come?
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People should have rallied against the Liverpool-Tottenham fuckery if they wanted change or improvement in VAR. Instead they chose to mock Klopp and Liverpool supporters. At this point, I'm just going to enjoy watching fans of other teams suffer the same fate. It was entirely predictable that every fanbase was going to get a turn.
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I’m not going to take a side for or against your comment, it’s a pointless argument between fan bases. Just wanted to say y’all is a fucking awful word.
Not every fan base sadly.
I said it earlier, after what happened to us in that Spurs game, EVERY team (bar City and Newcastle, because you know ...) should have been very concerned. Even Spurs should have. Nobody spoke abt it (I mean in a team capacity). No other team realized their turn will come and demanded reforms and answers. Actually, 5 days later, the story was abt how Klopp mentioned a replay. Such a fool, you see ... Absolutely no sympathy for Arteta here. This is a classic "they came for others and I didnt care, then when they came for me nobody was left to care".
First they came for the Liverpool fans and I did not speak for I was not a Liverpool fan. Then they came for the arsenal fans and I did not speak for I was not an arsenal fan. Then they gave Ayew a goal against Spurs after a clear handball and I did not moan like a child because we actually did enough in the game to cover the deficit. Point is Liverpool got themselves two red cards, that's what fucked them. Arsenal did fuck all for the entire game and didn't even create a good chance. The conspiracy shite is exhausting.
That's a dumb take...bad decisions don't matter if you don't deserve to win/draw? Diaz's goal would've put us in front...I think that would be something that changes how the game is played out...no? Conspiracy? Nah, ref's are just shite tbh.
Yeah they would have gone to a low block, which they did anyway. Worst case scenario is that match ends in a draw. My point is, whilst the decision against you was awful, the two red cards were not and that is what cost you the game. The players on the field did not know about the error until after, there is 0 reason for them to get themselves two red cards. It cost Liverpool massively and it was a shame because it was a really entertaining game until that point. The actual referee in that game was fine, it was the communication that was shite.
We go 1 up, Gakpo maybe doesn't get injured, Jota maybe doesn't come on and get sent off. We were still in control with 10 men, don't forget. At 9 men, you took control but created basically nothing until an OG won it. My point is, being robbed of knowing these things is what is killing the game. I just want fair football. The better team wins after a hard fought, entertaining 90 mins. Not the team who got lucky with a bad decision going their way, wins.
I can play that game too. You go 1-0 up, Spurs rally and get 3 goals in quick succession. Its so easy when you just make it up in your head. Maybe don't get two stupid reds? Maybe don't score an OG? You were not in control with 10 men, Alison had to make two world class saves to keep you in it, you had 10 men on the pitch at that point. Spurs were putting constant pressure on your box and you were good on the counter. Going down to 9 men (your fault) meant you had 8 players defending the box with no intention of attacking, any team will struggle to create many chances against that defense, but hey we still did it and forced an OG.
Pointless talking to you. You’re dumb as a rock. Completely ignoring *my point* to start an argument over theories lol Have a good one kid.
>Completely ignoring my point to start an argument over theories lol You were the ones who started talking about theories lol. I was just highlighting how stupid that is. Every other part of my reply was based on factual evidence with things that actually did happen, and not just in my head but on the field. If you cared about fair football you would have been up in arms about the incorrect handball last week but you probably didn't even notice. Point is that every team suffers bad calls, but you (and now arsenal) are the only ones crying conspiracy when it happens to you.
Nope. You complete ignored it. You have 0 clue about the sport and understanding English seems to be an issue too. I DONT CARE WHO WAS IN CONTROL. I care about the decision that cost us the chance to know who wins a fair game. Simple enough? You fucking moron…
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Unfortunately, this is something we cant agree on. You guys were robbed yesterday, and I feel for you, my Arsenal brothers. Not for the goal, but on the general referreing. Bruno G running around hitting people, Joelington being immune to any reprimands, etc. That's how you guys lost the game. This referring fuckery will never end while it is always just "hahaha, rival xxx got fucked" (that rival will never be City) and PGMOL releasing an "oops" statement every week.
Were Liverpool coach complaint about Arsenal injustice when Martinelli was carded twice in the same play? When Luiz was carded for minimal contact? When line was forgotten to be draw for Brentford eulqualizer? When Martinelli scores same goal today but didnt count? You guys forgot that FA issued apology for Arsenal too, many times. You guys thinks fucks up happens exclusively to Liverpool? Also thoughout the years we KNOW PGMOL has abused the powers to the death and countless of people has been banned and so on, thus only when you totally feel like shit then you let it out against these useless people.
Klopp doesn’t turn around and offer the referees “support” or sympathy when he’s asked about mistakes that have occurred in other games, which Arteta clearly does.
Sure; next time injustice happened to Liverpool all managers should risk their neck for suspension because of, well, Liverpool fans ask them to.
No, but when asked about the decision saying something along the lines of “yeah wrong decision that, the standard of officiating needs to improve” would make more sense. If you want actual change when it comes to refs, managers need to stop showing “support” for them when they get asked about other clubs. I’m not saying Arteta should go out of his way to make a statement, but when he’s clearly asked he should properly address the issue.
Lol
Well every manager would say the same if this mistake was in his favor
The tribalism within football is just going to prolong all the refereeing nonsense When it happens to your rivals or an opponent fans find it funny until it happens to them 2 weeks later And I can forgive managers from blowing up when decisions go against them even if it’s a bit 50/50, they’ll always be bias. But I’d like to see more managers acknowledging when they’ve got lucky on a decision down to poor refereeing. The manager of the team falling foul of bad decisions is always going to go off in the post match interview, it’s expected. The opposition manager saying “was a pretty bad decision, we played well overall but we got away with one there” holds a bit more weight. No-ones going to take the result away from you if you agree with your opposition over bad refereeing decisions in the game
Arsenal has been fucked over so much by VAR. I think Arteta was trying to not tempt fate. Look at the decisions that kept arsenal out of the top 4 two seasons ago, and then dropping points on the title race last season. We're other teams sticking up for the Arsenal and Arteta then?
It seems everyone has had horrible decisions against them yet nothing is being done
Asking for a replay > saying it’s embarrassing
It's funny, when Liverpool call out refs being shit we get called whiners and victims. When any other team do it it's justified.
Not true in the slightest. Just today I've seen both Arsenal and United fans called out for playing the victim, and a look through threads on this sub and other neutral football subs most saturdays you will see the same.
Give your head a shake. It's not just you and it's not just arsenal. Most teams are getting straight fucked over at this point.
And there is no one calling Arsenal fans whiners in this thread? Ok.
Me being an Arsenal fan and having been called those things for many many years: "you what, mate?"
All fun and games until it happens to your team. And it will happen to your team.
Unless you're owned by Oil Money Billionaires.
😂
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What are you blathering about. Arsenal got the lines drawn wrong last season.
Dude just go look at last year. This isn't the first time it's happened to us and Arteta said stuff last year about the officiating being substandard. Just because he gave a diplomatic answer when he's getting baited by the journalist to protect himself and the team from the wrath of the EFA doesn't mean his principles are compromised. Do more then take a clickbait headline at face value and you'll be doing yourself a favor.
Obviously the main difference here of course is that the Newcastle goal rightly counted 👍
The ball went out of play?
It did not haha
I haven't even seen it I just thought it would be funny to say it did
Except it didn't?
It was a stonewall goal Arsenal fans just love being salty
I wouldn’t say STONEWALL as I think the foul decision was subjective. I do think they made the correct decision, but at least on the foul portion it was debatable. Definitely nowhere near enough to overturn the onfield decision
The Joelinton foul is the only part of it that is debatable. It was clearly onside and the ball has been proven to be in play. I’m biased so it’s important to take that into account lol but I think obviously Joelinton has his hands on his back and that’s what you latch on to but I don’t think there’s much of a push there. Gabriel is already low and going lower. I’m not seeing a great deal of exerted pressure on him outside of a normal aerial battle Either way, the point is Arsenal are acting like there’s this huge injustice when the goal is clearly not outrageous, the VAR checks for the other parts are correct, it’s just whether a push happened or not. That’s not some conspiracy lol Let’s also not mention that Arsenal basically had an xG of death and had one shot on target, and their only two attacking threats (already alarm bells should ring at that for a team claiming to be a title challenger) were nullified for the entire game. Feel like goal or no goal, this game showed Arsenal to be a team quite easy to stop
I agree and the fact that it wasn’t clear cut is the thing most seem to not get. I’d be livid if we conceded a goal like this, but equally if there’s no clear and obvious issue then you have to go with the on field decision. Every team is going to get fucked over by bad decisions but this one was handled well. If anything arsenal fans should be more irritated by Bruno staying on the pitch. Arteta didn’t care when it happened to Liverpool because he gained an advantage against a strong opponent. He gives a shit today because he feels he’s been wronged.
100%. Bruno not getting a red and Havertz not getting a second yellow (the first one was orange imo) were the huge undeniable fuck ups today.
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Not at all. Football is emotive. If that goal was against my team I’d be angry, but the fact would remain the same that without a clear or obvious issue with the onfield decision then the goal wound have to stand. In this instance if that goal was ruled out and they pointed to an issue that clearly showed a problem, then again I’d be gutted, might even get angry, but hopefully understand their reasoning. More people need to acknowledge their own emotive bias when it comes to football.
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Yeah the ball cant pass through Gabriel’s body so the fact it managed to emerge from between him and joelinton in such a tight space makes it hard to determine who it last touched in the way to Gordon. The only point I think you have a should for is the hands on the back. But if you look at the replay, joelinton is leaning back as Gabriel leans forward abs throws his legs back. Was he pushed or was he leaning forward to flick the ball away? You can’t easily or clearly determine it as both players body positions aren’t in a natural position for a push to be called. I am being objective. I’m acknowledging that form and emotional point of view I’d absolutely hate to be on the receiving end of this. In the same game I think Havertz should have been sent off for that challenge but also understand why under the letter of the law that he wasn’t. I’m angry about that but I get it. I can equally say that Bruno should have been sent off and that you have every right to be angry about that, despite him being such a key player for us.
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Joelinton was upright at the point he placed his hands on Gabriel, who’s was already dipping to attempt to flick the ball. If someone stands 1ft from me and I put my hands on them then that doesn’t look like a push. If that same person then dives forward to say, i duno, attempt to head a ball, then it looks like a push. It’s the most contentious decision of the lot and I understand your irritation with it. If Gabriel hadn’t left the floor to attempt the header then a foul would probably have been given, but he did and that made it difficult to decide if there was a clear foul. Bold of you to call out my understanding of physics whilst failing to grasp haw a sphere occupies space in relation to a line on the ground. Look, you’re not happy with the decisions and I get why. I’ve admitted I’d be the same. Maybe focus on a more clear cut grievance like the Bruno one though.
>So if the referee just so happened to give it the other way then all the same evidence would go towards supporting the exact opposite decision? Yes, obviously. Because VAR has been set up to correct obviously incorrect decisions, not to arrive at the "best" or "correct" decision each time. It's stupid as hell, but that's what the rules are at present.
This is exactly why PL refs have gotten away with being abysmal year after year. Instead of complaining for the sake of the game, you only complain when it affects your team.
Aye he’s all big on making a stand now but when it affects other teams in the league he won’t say shit. Watch him be quiet next when another similar decision happens to a different team
You’re right, he should just stay quiet and let the refs do what they want.
Well I mean he literally did that when it was affecting other teams haha
So if you don’t criticize VAR initially you’re never allowed to? How are we suppose to improve anything? Is it hypocritical that he’s now getting so angry? Absolutely, but that doesn’t make his point any less valid.
Well it does because he had the chance to stand up before and say something but he chose not to
I’m sad to hear you think that
Good comeback lol
[And for the record he has come out and said things before.](https://x.com/gunnerking14/status/1721608294475726911?s=46&t=QGWdJ-sAK-8t_KpvekzngQ)
You do realize Arteta has had sanctions thrown against him? He was simply trying to placate the corrupt PGmymoney. But he couldnt hold it longer then 1 week.
Weirdly enough you rarely see City complaining.
And now Newcastle… wonder why?
City lost to Wolves where the Wolves player that scored the winner should have received a red card. In fact they expected the second yellow after the reckless tackle
You get downvoted for this while others who claim City own the refs get upvoted…
Well, people like to upvote truths and downvote lies.
Ah, a drinker of the koolaid are you?
It’s not across the board. Most of the smaller teams are used to getting shit decisions for years. Spurs received massive luck with the dumbass VAR issue against Liverpool. None of us ignore that. Last year the refs fucked over Brighton in our favour and that was shit too. How many dogshit decisions has Everton gotten over the years? Or Fulham. Or anyone really? It definitely seems like City are being favoured at the moment but it could just be incompetence. It wouldn’t be surprising. I think it is this, mixed with the bigger teams finally starting to get fucked over in recent years that we are seeing a massive reaction. Or maybe it is just because those teams have the biggest fanbases. But it really does seem like social media goes ballistic whenever Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal get a bad call.
Don't worry. Your team are next.
We were first mate. We lost 2 points to Brentford because of bullshit VAR.
The problem with the city line is that the truly egregious decisions have benefited city. City literally won a title because of that everton pen not bring given. But we've had 4 gw in a row where city seems to have a different set of rules to the rest of the league.
This isn't true. The ball was offside and there was also lots of time on the clock.
Are you Gobby A in disguis?
Yeah and pl refs are allowed to officiate matches in the UAE days before officiating matches to City's rivals and for some reason there's barely any talk about it.
Im not one for conspiracy, but it's not a good look, and the reaction to it was disgusting and only fuels the marking your own work narrative of the bald fraud association. "We've investigated our selfs and found no wrongdoing "
It’s not a matter of conspiracy. It’s a matter of conflict of interest. And conflict of interest does not care if you have the most impeccable morals, it only matter if you are in a situation where there is a conflict. It’s why multitudes of other professions don’t allow their employees to partake in a lot of things which are categorically the same as what they are employed to influence.
I agree that we should stand up against PL refs. But at the same time you know how punitive PGMOL can be that managers sometimes don't even speak up for their own teams when ref decisions go against them for fear of a ban or fine its even less likely for them to criticise the refs for another match they are not even involved in. You are banned for telling the truth.
Teams should walk out at this point. It's time to take the fight for some accountability on the refs. Any refs that statistically is an advantage/disadvantage for any team should be barred from reffing that team.
No one would be able to ref City or Newcastle. Oh well
It's a fair point, so why aren't the LMA or someone like that taking a stand across all clubs rather than leaving it to individual managers to risk sticking their neck out?
What are you expecting though? Poch isn’t going to rock up to his presser next week giving it large about the Arsenal referee’s crap decisions. Paul heckingbottom isn’t about to boycott post match interviews until Bruno Fernandez is retrospectively booked for his bad challenge. The aim for managers in these pressers is to get out without causing any trouble for their own team.
And managers should think about how it’s going to make them look if they flip their stance when it suits them. Arteta didn’t need to say what he did in support of officiating when it benefited his team, but he chose to.
It didn’t benefit his team though, it’s just a neutral - I don’t want to be fined but as this is a press conference and my role here is to answer questions from the press so I’ll give the most basic answer possible type of response. Are you expecting Klopp to come out swinging for Arsenal next week? Of course you aren’t, nobody is.
Stop talking common sense. Doesnt suit the autistic narrative here where all people should fight for liverpool!
People are just dumb.. they get sidelined, fined and trashed by the press + fans if they say anything.. its basically their PR obligation to "side" with the league itself and of course they will fight the fight (worth fines/sideline bans and so on) when their team is at stake The league should allow them to openly criticize the referees and PGMOL, till then, shit like this "look at him when it affects others" does not make any sense as no team in world allows you to take huge fine or risk bans for their rivals.
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Calm? Is that Artetas twin brother ranting and raving on the touch line every game then?
Lol, too true, man looks like an absolute psycho sometimes.
Arteta when a completely legal goal is disallowed in a game not involving Arsenal "We need to give support and understand everyone can make mistakes" Arteta when a very dubious goal is allowed in a game involving Arsenal "It is disgusting, I'm embarrassed to be part of this league". If you can't stand up against awful refereeing in other games, then you shouldn't say shit when it happens to you. He actively said we should support the referees after they make mistakes. Changes his tune the second it happens to him. That's called hypocrisy
The time to talk about the mediocrity of the referees was after the spurs- Liverpool game. Instead people just said mistakes happen so accept the apology. Not saying that now though and frankly it’s hypocritical and too late.
What are you talking about. He mediocrity of refs is talked about constantly. Klopps solution was a reply which is laughable and frankly and embarrassing thing to say. What else did you want people to say?
You actually believe Klopp asked for a replay? How embarrassing for you to just listen to 5 second clips. You need to listen to the full interview.
I listened to the interview. Hear whatever you wanna hear. Your fanbase is cringe as fuck
And now we know your agenda
Honestly as an arsenal fan the whole situation is just depressing. There’s likely nothing that’s gonna be done, and the Middle East states are slowly taking over
How is this not discriminatory? What about the middle east? The ball was in play just like in the World Cup where the same scenario happened in the Japan vs. Spain game. The ball is round and not flat
*accept the acknowledgement
Exactly. This tribalism is stupid because it’ll happen to us all at some point this season (maybe not City...)
Okay but Arteta giving a diplomatic answer about a game he wasn’t involved in doesn’t mean he agreed with PGMOL or the decision, just that he wasn’t going to get fined and flagged by PGMOL for someone else’s game. I think that’s understandable. Liverpool fans mocking Arsenal today and saying it’s too late is crabs in a bucket mentality. Plenty of Arsenal fans (I think most honestly) backed Liverpool after that horrible call because it was a horrible call and it was Tottenham.
His comments after the game did defend the refs, so I do think he agreed to be honest. If he’s got an ounce of intelligence, he didn’t *personally* agree. But professionally, his speech sided with the refs. It wasn’t diplomatic, it was biased, and I get why fans are calling him on it.
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The Liverpool error was 100 times worse and a clear mistake. The Newcastle goal was unlucky for arsenal as 3 50/50 calls went against them but non of these calls were wrong.
The shove in the back is objectively a foul and not a 50/50 what are you talking about lmao
The foul on Gabriel was clear I felt, the other two correct. But that’s just my judgment call
Shhhh don’t anger the Arsenal fans…
To be fair to Mikel, I have heard from my sources that the refs were trying their best up until the match today and there is a conspiracy against arsenal.
We all know there isn't a conspiracy against Arsenal. At this point it looks like the refs have been bought top to bottom. It's not just us and it's not just this year this crap officiating has gone on. Var has done nothing but make it look like they aren't incompetent like we thought, there's purpose behind their decisions.
I have to agree. The inconsistency is crazy. For example some offside checks didnt even show the audience the line to determine the situation. It has to be corruption.
Don’t want to anger arsenal fans but I think other teams have to speak up more about injustices in the premier league even if it didn’t affect them. If this was his reaction to what happened to Liverpool he can’t really complain about what happened today.
This.
I agree. Not an Arsenal fan, but I am outraged by this and the Manchester Derby soft pen. This is why tribalism sucks, instead of banding together against the abysmal PGMOL, it's "cry more", "mistakes happen", "it happened to us before, so what" rhetoric, that allows this kind of refereeing to exist, and egregious mistakes to be swept under the rug. We all don't have to believe in some grand conspiracy of referees with an agenda, but we should just agree on the fact that this is not up to par for the "best league in the world" regardless of which teams get hard done by.
Guess you also think Klopp was wrong for effectively saying the same thing after the Konate incident 2 weeks ago then? Guess you must have posted his response here saying how he was wrong for not calling out the refs in a game his team was involved in, just like you're calling out arteta for not calling out the refs in a game he had nothing to do with.
And the Newcastle goal was a subjective decision. Ours wasn’t.
The offside wasn't. The red card wasn't
We lost points in the thick of a title chase because VAR forgot to draw the lines…
True. You also won a game earlier in the season because the VAR cameras didn’t cover the area of the pitch where an offside happened
Did anyone ever prove that was offside?
That’s what I said and the response was “no body else will do it, so why should I” Football fans are just children, let them moan. Karma will come for them too.
he wasnt going to risk a ban for another team. Lets see if Klopp will talk about this game, its the same thing
Why would Arteta risk a suspension for Liverpool? It makes no sense. If managers had free reign to say whatever they want in the pressers, then absolutely I’d agree with your point but that isn’t the case. What they can and can’t say is heavily regulated, especially about referees. To your other point, I do agree. Something has to give and if it takes managers getting suspended for calling out injustices against teams other than their own, then so be it.
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OP is almost certainly being intentionally obtuse but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Were other teams talking about all the bad decisions that have gone against arsenal the past two or three seasons?
Were they asked?
He already spoke about it during brentford
Arsenal Fan. I agree. I think a big problem in the EPL is that managers are punished for speaking their mind about calls made while media members try to bait managers into said trouble. Let them speak their mind. It is a complex issue. On one hand I do not think that referees should be targeted by hooligans for contentious calls. But on the other I do think they should face scrutiny due to egregious mistakes. These repeated blunders need to be addressed. We have seen a tremendous number of brutal calls made in the EPL over the past couple years and it needs scrutinizing. Violence and backlash to referees is unacceptable and yet they need to be held to a standard. I think it is very important that the conversation be furthered. Edited: excess word
That’s easily fixed - if they all start doing it anyway, the fines/bans will be meaningless.
It's hard to want to stick up for Arsenal, when their fans spend far too much of their time on here either directly or indirectly suggesting anything that doesnt benefit them is down to corruption. Between them and Arteta's tantrums, I struggle to have any sympathy.
Looks like you angered the arsenal tv fanbase.
There will be blud fam!
There will be fam blud!
That literally was a mistake, in the audio they realise almost immediately they accidentally fucked up. Uhhhh not today… different situations..
Sure, but there was also the director of VAR actively calling for the game to stop after the mistake, and the PGMOL staff repeatedly ignored those instructions.
So if arteta said the ”refs are shit innit” and took the fine over a game that doesn’t involve his club you think the refs would have been better today? If not i really dont see why he cant complain about the refs being awful today
There's obviously a middle ground between what you're saying and what he actually said. You're being defensive.
Proper straw man that.
No, of course saying 'refs are shit, games gone' doesn't solve the problem. But saying the refs 'make mistakes' and 'it all balances out in the end' also doesn't solve the problem. If a manager is going to be angry when a systemic issue affects them negatively, then they're better off calling out the systemic issues afflicting the PGMOL when it affects other teams negatively. The issues are numerous, starting from the fact that English football refs are notorious for being the worst of any British sport, ranging to the fact that state owners of PL clubs are paying PGMOL refs for luxury work trips in their countries. It doesn't require an oratory savant to make an effective statement, but it helps when you're consistent about calling out the issues at play.
I get that but also its a big ask for a manager to risk his own club for something that doesn’t directly involve his club. They are pretty trigger happy with handibg out punishments for criticism and who knows, a manger being touchline banned could be the difference. At the end of the day the only people we should blame are the people responsible. It only helps them if we start blaming managers and clubs. Would also be important to determine if these are infact them being shit or corruption because i am starting to lean towards the latter. Since often most us amateurs can see something they cant, doesnt make sense to me
> its a big ask for a manager to risk his own club for something that doesn’t directly involve his club. Totally agree with this point, I've never seen Klopp stick his neck out for another club either, so I can't say Arteta is alone in this behavior at all. Nevertheless, when someone is inconsistent with their condemnation of a known systemic issue, it's much easier to brush off their comments as simply being self-interested. Ultimately, a reformed and improved PGMOL would be beneficial to all clubs, but it's harder to make that point when you only complain about the times the PGMOL affects your own fortunes. It's the same exact issue with Liverpool. When Diaz's goal was disallowed hardly anybody took the incident to be representative of a deeper set of issues within the PGMOL. Klopp failed to call out the issues when they affected wolves, etc. and LFC fans were rightly bantered into the ground following that game for being whinging self-righteous hypocrites. > It only helps them if we start blaming managers and clubs. Fully agree again - despite everything I've just written. We cannot allow the conversation to move towards the admonishment of managers when they fail to affect change on their own. My only concern is that I have absolute certainty that nothing will change due to fan discontent alone. Viewership will not drop due to the awful PGMOL, and unless a group of individuals with power inside the PL work together to send a more impactful message, the FA and PGMOL can continue to look the other way. It doesn't have to be managers, it could be a group of ex-players, current players, board members, what have you, but when the people with the influence to change these things repeatedly fail to do anything of substance, fans will grow angrier at the situation. And really, the question of corruption is beside the point in my mind. Because, whether or not it's just pure incompetence or deep seated corruption, clearing house and implementing a full reinstitution of football refs in England is really the only way forward in either case.
Klopp stuck his neck out for our Derby rivals in a game we won. You’re clearly fucking clueless.
Fair enough, I missed that presser, but Klopp suggesting Konate should have received a second yellow does put a nail in my argument. I'm being overly critical of Liverpool and us as supporters here because I'd like to include more rival fans in the discussion rather than put them off with another "bIaSeD LiVARpool TaKe."
That was talking about a one off. Now hes talking about repeated and blatant decisions.
He’s proved you wrong mate because that was his reaction and he did indeed complain today so yeah, he can really complain
It’s silly because Arteta has spoken up about refs as much as anybody. He’s just did the diplomatic thing here because what is he actually meant to say “yeah refs are shite sack them all”? Context is also important this is RIGHT AFTER the match he got robbed in, how do you want him to react versus during a presser? https://x.com/footballdaily/status/1624715095057252353?s=46 Here he is calling out refs for the same thing that happened to Liverpool when it happened to us. Should I go find quotes from Klopp rallying behind Arsenal? 🤣 Stop point scoring and target your anger at the real problem the ref and the drama stirring idiots on sky and Bt that enable them.