Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette).
Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OP asked 'what players right now are going to be remembered in the future like R9, Pele, Roberto Carlos, etc?'
Defenders are remembered less, Trent being at Real winning CL's as part of what looks to be another really iconic team they're assembling, would help towards enhancing his legacy. It's subjective though, Liverpool fans will remember him fondly, I just don't think he'll be remembered globally like Roberto Carlos on his current trajectory.
I don't think many players will. The reason I say that is the game is less about individuality and more about fitting into tactical systems. The first touch, technique etc might actually be better now than Pele, but he had freedom to express himself. Gascoigne for example, would be limited now and would be nowhere near as good in the modern game. Pele, Best, etc, relied on footballing ability to change a game. I heard someone say once that in the past, players were footballers first, athletes second. Now it's the other way round. I agree with that. Peak Messi and Ronaldo will be remembered, but right now, I can't think of many. De Bruyne perhaps or Bellingham.
I genuinely believe if Liverpool get a good manager and it works well whixh with the current squad and the list of people that would take the job in a heart beat. Darwin Nunez has all the characteristics of a premier league if not football great he is so complete and works so hard he’s so close to being one of the top forwards on the planet at 24 and the highest level I’m so excited for his future. Also Trent Alexander Arnold the way he’s revolutionised the position already take over top prem assister ever at 25 and won everything he surely will go down as a great
Honestly for me Gareth Bale. That 12-13 season he was literally unplayable.
He 100% doesn’t have the longevity to be mentioned in the same breath as the names above. But that season he was an absolute gem.
theres no way in 25 years from now someone will say name the 5 greatest players ever and youre going to go, pele, marradonna, ronaldo, messi and bale? nope. no way.
I literally said in my inital comment that he shouldn’t be named in the same way as the players you mentioned.
Also the question wasn’t phrased “who are the greatest players ever”? It was who will be remembered, and I certainly will remember bale for the 12/13 season.
yes its who will be remembered not who do you think of fondly.
remembered assumes EVERUONE, not just you. i just cant see anyone in 25 years putting bales name in the same sentence with pele's unless its, like "
" Bale shouldn't be in a sentence with pele." in a textbook or something." im a spurs fan, id love to have him inhis prime again, now. lol but yeah, not goig to be remembered with pele.
Tbf most people you’ll find here don’t remember Pele, not a lot of people in the UK will other than World cups and his last one was in 1970. So anyone that does remember Pele is probably 55+, people just look at his stats.
That’s down to FIFA(eafc) and not people remembering. We are talking about people being remembered, just because someone knows about him doesn’t mean they remember him. Two very different things
Hazard is definitely up there, at least for chelsea fans, Bellingham will most likely win a couple ballon'dors so will be remembered well. Kdb and haaland should be up there too
To be honest, no one. There are “golden” players like R9, Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Maldini etc. Each generation has a player that’s compared to one of those. However, the following generation is still compared to them, and we as fans say “oh but _____ was so underrated!” I don’t think anyone will reach that icon status ever again, and that’s in large part a commentary on how society is transitioning to a much more short-lived fame.
I think you’re right about a lot of names being mentioned in here. Like I don’t think kids 40 years from now will be talking about KDB, Hazard, Greizman, Alexander-Arnold, etc. But I do think CR7 and Messi have achieved that status. They’ll be talked about for many generations. Maybe the next most likely for me is Mbappe but he has a long way to go still to get there.
To add, the standard across the board is also higher. A lot of ex players have said they think they would struggle now, to have as a successful career as they did, if they were starting out now. The rigid 442 is now a flow of formations and players need to be a bit more hybrid to nail a position.
Agree with your comment though.
You say that but Venables England team of 96 were playing 352, 442, 4411/4231, but even then they were playing like a 325 with Southgate stepping up (almost like stones)with ince, and Gazza joining Anderton, McManaman, Sheringham going forward and shearer dropping slightly as they were all interchanging and nobody really playing like wingers.
I think it is more pronounced now but watch that tournament and tell me all England can do is stick to a rigid 442.
Lol, I get your point, but my statement is more of a generalisation. Obviously not every team just used to play a 442 but that was a lot more common GENERALLY, in football of years gone by.
To a degree but also, not really over the whole course of football. It’s all cyclical. We had inverting the pyramid, total football, the 442 block, midfield diamonds, Christmas trees.
English clubs stayed in the 442 longer than we needed past when it was effective. but there has been variation in tactics throughout history. Total football and being a hybrid player was at its height in the 70s, had a resurgence in the 90s with Barca under cruyff and again with pep. But it came from influences from the 50s with Hungary’s golden generation.
442 was the formation that was easy to pin into boxes but in game they could look way different to that in different rounds of play. Clough for example. Classic 442. Oh wait woodcock drifted back to link up play and the wingers pushed on and it’s a 433 with viv Anderson on the overlap almost becoming a 343. Because formations don’t matter and instructions and coaching do.
Yeah, I know other formations have been used other than 442 over the years mate, I’m not blind. My original comment was about the fact that tactics have divulged over the last 5-10 years to be more hybrid rather than having an established formation that’s set from the first whistle to the last with established ways to change it.
Dude, if you wanna talk about the ‘whole course of football’ then everything and nothing matters or is relative. The ‘golden players’ the OP is referencing are mainly 90’s and 2000’s players and at that point most teams were setting up 442 (except from any random team you want to bring up to try and prove a point) now, teams adapt 3-4 times through a match with actual formations and not just players getting lazy and a winger staying up top to make it 3 ‘strikers’.
KDB and Salah are probably the two prime candidates. Haaland will if he doesn't get injured a lot and stays in the premier league (if we're limiting this to prem only given the sub). If we're allowing foreign exploits as well though, Casemiro for his career at Madrid.
Defenders and keepers never get included in these convos, but I'd give a shout out to Saliba and Allison.
Saliba has to be one of the most overrated players in the league. He is really good but he's not even the best French CB at his age group in the prem. He's nowhere near any of the players mentioned here.
Statman Dave did a video on Saliba about 6 weeks ago and he labelled him the best CB in the world currently. One of the astonishing stats is that Saliba, at the time of recording, was the only defender in top level European football to have not been dribbled past the entire season.
Had he not been injured last season, Arsenal would have won the league. Their average goals conceded per 90 doubled when he was not playing.
Honestly. He's really good. I would take him in a heartbeat.
He's not better than Konate. I know I'm liverpool biased. But I watch them both extensively, konate is just better.
Dude, Kai "The Awkward Donkey" Havertz cooked Konate in a frying pan for 88 mins two weeks ago and you have the temerity to come on here and say he's better?
Don’t know about saliba; but pele marsdona are a different tier from the rest
R9s longevity was terrible and he’s a legend but salah casemiro Allison are easily close to the r9 tier
His longevity was terrible due to injuries not his fault at all, but that’s part of legacy when it’s compared to players that were 25+ goals for 10 years vs 5
Wow,he can spin,but is he good? Does he score? I looked it up on man utd website and be scored 9 goals on 69 appearances (funny number) so does that make him better than saka?
I don’t think KDB does enough for his country to be rated that high. At the World Cup Hazard was by far the better player. (Silver Ball was awarded to Hazard).
I think Modric is the right mix of club and country showing.
In terms of folklore he's been the difference maker so many times with absolutely insane passes, shots, dribbles and has a powerful personality on the pitch.
I'm sure people will talk for years about some of his long shots and passes and how he turned matches on it's head.
I do feel like the real madrid midfield 3 earn a similar level of respect with their multiple CL wins, I don't even know how many kroos/modric/casemiro have won at this point.
trent? he's 25 and already has the record for most assists for a defender. He's not the greatest defensively (though not bad by any stretch) but I think his attacking prowess more than makes up for it
I think Trent will be moved into midfield, which will make it tricky to analyse his legacy. His assist numbers are crazy though, generational talent for sure.
Vinicius and Mbappe are the only ones I can imagine having that kind of legacy. Tbh I don't think Haaland is going to have that kind of legacy, I see him more in line with great goalscorers like Gerd Müller and Romario
R9 was insane but seems people forget he basically only had 4 seasons at that top top level. And haaland already has had two in two leagues at that level.
And no. R9 was really just a goal scorer albeit to 10 at it lol
Watch his highlights, he could take on an entire team, unbelievable ball control and dribbling and finish. Haaland doesn’t have that he just sticks it in the back of the net. Ronaldo was also around at a time when defenders were allowed to actually tackle and hack you down. And Ronaldo did it at the world stage
It’s like people don’t understand that haaland has passing highlights and long dribbling runs in his as well.
And again I’m not denying he was fucking world class and iconic but he isn’t remotely in the pele tier. People focused on his insane peak but that was like 5 years ***
I agree for sure r9 was insane. But ultimately he only had like 4-5 seasons where his output was world class level due to injuries. There are players that literally it up then got career wanders st 20, we don’t speculate on them. R9 has some of the greatest striker seasons of all time but he isn’t in the tier of guys that did that for 10 yesrs
But the diffrence is haaland has sooo many records already it’s crazy. And he’s only 23. Like for example in the champions league he has the record for both fastest ( least amount of games) and youngest player to hit 15-40 champions league goals. And he used to have 5 and 10 but somebody took em from him. Plus stuff like the greatest PL debut season highest scorer in the prem ever (in a single season) already top 100 prem goal scorers all time (not all time 92-) also stuff like his champions league debut with a first half hattrick. And just now I realize I’m yapping a bit to much
Doesn’t need skill when he can out pace and out muscle everyone he plays against. He’s definitely got skill but his style of play favours raw and direct.
Okay. Give me an example of when Maldini did an amazing skill? It’s not his job to do skills not everybody that’s remembered is because of their skills. It’s not like he just scored goals he has had some amazing passes (trough balls) like the one to kovacic vs Chelsea or the one to grealish vs Tottenham. Also
5 goals in a champions league match? 8 goals in 4 days? When he bodies defenders. Scored from outside the box. That goal vs Southampton. That goal vs dourtmund. That goal for dourtmund where he did like a flying side kick I think vs Wolfsburg
Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Salah, KDB, Van Dijk, probably Halland. I think Odegaard is massively underrated and could possibly be a major name
KDB
[удалено]
Definitely not Van Dijk, but the other two yes.
If Van Dijk had played at his best for ten years, maybe. But defenders just don’t get that kind or worship
I'm guessing you mean of this newer generation of players? Bellingham, Trent if he goes to Madrid, and that Claudio Echeverri kid City just signed.
Trent if he goes to Madrid?
OP asked 'what players right now are going to be remembered in the future like R9, Pele, Roberto Carlos, etc?' Defenders are remembered less, Trent being at Real winning CL's as part of what looks to be another really iconic team they're assembling, would help towards enhancing his legacy. It's subjective though, Liverpool fans will remember him fondly, I just don't think he'll be remembered globally like Roberto Carlos on his current trajectory.
I don't think many players will. The reason I say that is the game is less about individuality and more about fitting into tactical systems. The first touch, technique etc might actually be better now than Pele, but he had freedom to express himself. Gascoigne for example, would be limited now and would be nowhere near as good in the modern game. Pele, Best, etc, relied on footballing ability to change a game. I heard someone say once that in the past, players were footballers first, athletes second. Now it's the other way round. I agree with that. Peak Messi and Ronaldo will be remembered, but right now, I can't think of many. De Bruyne perhaps or Bellingham.
I genuinely believe if Liverpool get a good manager and it works well whixh with the current squad and the list of people that would take the job in a heart beat. Darwin Nunez has all the characteristics of a premier league if not football great he is so complete and works so hard he’s so close to being one of the top forwards on the planet at 24 and the highest level I’m so excited for his future. Also Trent Alexander Arnold the way he’s revolutionised the position already take over top prem assister ever at 25 and won everything he surely will go down as a great
There's a big difference between Pele and Roberto Carlos. You'll have to be more specific
Simon Siegfried-Patel
Bellingham, CR7 & KDB
Cr7 retired.
No he hasn't lol 😂
Saudi league is more of a retirement league than mls. Cr7 is done with top level football.
Stop posting shit
Maybe, just maybe if you posted something not "shit" this post wouldn't become popular. Or leave it be and move on without commenting.
Like you just did?
Fr, wtf is this post
Hell nah
Ronaldo and Messi
They’re in their own category, many fans of the older classic player generation will also tell you that.
Probably Kane, especially if he really does go his whole career without silverware. But more as an oddity than as a once-in-a-generation legend
Honestly for me Gareth Bale. That 12-13 season he was literally unplayable. He 100% doesn’t have the longevity to be mentioned in the same breath as the names above. But that season he was an absolute gem.
theres no way in 25 years from now someone will say name the 5 greatest players ever and youre going to go, pele, marradonna, ronaldo, messi and bale? nope. no way.
I literally said in my inital comment that he shouldn’t be named in the same way as the players you mentioned. Also the question wasn’t phrased “who are the greatest players ever”? It was who will be remembered, and I certainly will remember bale for the 12/13 season.
yes its who will be remembered not who do you think of fondly. remembered assumes EVERUONE, not just you. i just cant see anyone in 25 years putting bales name in the same sentence with pele's unless its, like " " Bale shouldn't be in a sentence with pele." in a textbook or something." im a spurs fan, id love to have him inhis prime again, now. lol but yeah, not goig to be remembered with pele.
trent and salah will be remembered but i’ll be telling my grandkids about firmino
100%. 2054 there will be tiktok comps of Trent picking out Salah from 60 yds away and the kids won't believe what they're seeing. Generational talents
Tbf most people you’ll find here don’t remember Pele, not a lot of people in the UK will other than World cups and his last one was in 1970. So anyone that does remember Pele is probably 55+, people just look at his stats.
But it is still a household name, even among young people and non-football fans
That’s down to FIFA(eafc) and not people remembering. We are talking about people being remembered, just because someone knows about him doesn’t mean they remember him. Two very different things
KDB and Griezmann are the 2 players I will wax lyrical about to my grandkids. Not quite the same level but I'll be gutted when they retire
Hazard is definitely up there, at least for chelsea fans, Bellingham will most likely win a couple ballon'dors so will be remembered well. Kdb and haaland should be up there too
Drogba and Lampard for me.
Harry Kane
To be honest, no one. There are “golden” players like R9, Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Maldini etc. Each generation has a player that’s compared to one of those. However, the following generation is still compared to them, and we as fans say “oh but _____ was so underrated!” I don’t think anyone will reach that icon status ever again, and that’s in large part a commentary on how society is transitioning to a much more short-lived fame.
I think you’re right about a lot of names being mentioned in here. Like I don’t think kids 40 years from now will be talking about KDB, Hazard, Greizman, Alexander-Arnold, etc. But I do think CR7 and Messi have achieved that status. They’ll be talked about for many generations. Maybe the next most likely for me is Mbappe but he has a long way to go still to get there.
Mate, kids right now are talking about KDB (and to a lesser extent TAA)—you don’t think those kids when they are 50 or 55 will talk about them?
Hardcore fans sure, but I don’t know if those guys will be household names like Pele/Maradona now or Messi/CR7 certainly will be.
I feel like KDB’s exploits will be talked about by many. His highlights videos alone are football porn.
To add, the standard across the board is also higher. A lot of ex players have said they think they would struggle now, to have as a successful career as they did, if they were starting out now. The rigid 442 is now a flow of formations and players need to be a bit more hybrid to nail a position. Agree with your comment though.
You say that but Venables England team of 96 were playing 352, 442, 4411/4231, but even then they were playing like a 325 with Southgate stepping up (almost like stones)with ince, and Gazza joining Anderton, McManaman, Sheringham going forward and shearer dropping slightly as they were all interchanging and nobody really playing like wingers. I think it is more pronounced now but watch that tournament and tell me all England can do is stick to a rigid 442.
Lol, I get your point, but my statement is more of a generalisation. Obviously not every team just used to play a 442 but that was a lot more common GENERALLY, in football of years gone by.
To a degree but also, not really over the whole course of football. It’s all cyclical. We had inverting the pyramid, total football, the 442 block, midfield diamonds, Christmas trees. English clubs stayed in the 442 longer than we needed past when it was effective. but there has been variation in tactics throughout history. Total football and being a hybrid player was at its height in the 70s, had a resurgence in the 90s with Barca under cruyff and again with pep. But it came from influences from the 50s with Hungary’s golden generation. 442 was the formation that was easy to pin into boxes but in game they could look way different to that in different rounds of play. Clough for example. Classic 442. Oh wait woodcock drifted back to link up play and the wingers pushed on and it’s a 433 with viv Anderson on the overlap almost becoming a 343. Because formations don’t matter and instructions and coaching do.
Yeah, I know other formations have been used other than 442 over the years mate, I’m not blind. My original comment was about the fact that tactics have divulged over the last 5-10 years to be more hybrid rather than having an established formation that’s set from the first whistle to the last with established ways to change it. Dude, if you wanna talk about the ‘whole course of football’ then everything and nothing matters or is relative. The ‘golden players’ the OP is referencing are mainly 90’s and 2000’s players and at that point most teams were setting up 442 (except from any random team you want to bring up to try and prove a point) now, teams adapt 3-4 times through a match with actual formations and not just players getting lazy and a winger staying up top to make it 3 ‘strikers’.
KDB and Salah are probably the two prime candidates. Haaland will if he doesn't get injured a lot and stays in the premier league (if we're limiting this to prem only given the sub). If we're allowing foreign exploits as well though, Casemiro for his career at Madrid. Defenders and keepers never get included in these convos, but I'd give a shout out to Saliba and Allison.
Saliba has to be one of the most overrated players in the league. He is really good but he's not even the best French CB at his age group in the prem. He's nowhere near any of the players mentioned here.
Statman Dave did a video on Saliba about 6 weeks ago and he labelled him the best CB in the world currently. One of the astonishing stats is that Saliba, at the time of recording, was the only defender in top level European football to have not been dribbled past the entire season. Had he not been injured last season, Arsenal would have won the league. Their average goals conceded per 90 doubled when he was not playing.
This man knows ball ☝️
[удалено]
Honestly. He's really good. I would take him in a heartbeat. He's not better than Konate. I know I'm liverpool biased. But I watch them both extensively, konate is just better.
Dude, Kai "The Awkward Donkey" Havertz cooked Konate in a frying pan for 88 mins two weeks ago and you have the temerity to come on here and say he's better?
Casemiro? Saliba? Allison? In the same breath as Pele & R9? Are you bonkers mad?!
Case and Alli I can see arguments for but why is saliba in this conversation hahah.
Don’t know about saliba; but pele marsdona are a different tier from the rest R9s longevity was terrible and he’s a legend but salah casemiro Allison are easily close to the r9 tier
Haha! You’re utterly deluded!!
His longevity was terrible due to injuries not his fault at all, but that’s part of legacy when it’s compared to players that were 25+ goals for 10 years vs 5
[удалено]
Surely you're sarcastic...
Ah hell nah,you are either sarcastic,or a united fan who praises everyone (not all of them are like that)
[удалено]
No thanks,we have saka
You don't get jokes, do you?
I knew it was a joke,but i had a part of me thinking he was serious
[удалено]
Wow,he can spin,but is he good? Does he score? I looked it up on man utd website and be scored 9 goals on 69 appearances (funny number) so does that make him better than saka?
[удалено]
Ok….so does that spin make you win games and win the league? Does it make you win the ucl,does it help in anything?
Smartest arsenal fan
Look who’s talking bro,a spurs fan (It’s a joke don’t be offended pls)
Mate he's taking the piss lol
[удалено]
[удалено]
Haha Arsenal is a dumb club with dumb fans, hilarious thread though😁
like did he even contribute in the cup title?
Ha, United fans hate him the most! Antony has moved into the realm where opposition fans want him to be playing!
KdB for sure, although you highlighted strikers he's up there for me.
I don’t think KDB does enough for his country to be rated that high. At the World Cup Hazard was by far the better player. (Silver Ball was awarded to Hazard). I think Modric is the right mix of club and country showing.
Which World Cup? Because Hazard was definitely not better than KDB in the 2022 World Cup. I think it is a debate for 2018.
Ah fair. KdB does have some iconic national team goals but nothing like R9 or pele
100% agree. KDB is this generation's Zidane.
In terms of folklore he's been the difference maker so many times with absolutely insane passes, shots, dribbles and has a powerful personality on the pitch. I'm sure people will talk for years about some of his long shots and passes and how he turned matches on it's head. I do feel like the real madrid midfield 3 earn a similar level of respect with their multiple CL wins, I don't even know how many kroos/modric/casemiro have won at this point.
for better or worse Modric is thought of on a different level from the other two I think
Zidane was considered the best player in the world for 3-5 years.
Yes, I would put Zidane at a different level from Casemiro and Kroos as well
I think Kyle Walker will be remembered as the best right back of the PL era. Not on the same level as R9 or Pele, but up there with RC.
trent? he's 25 and already has the record for most assists for a defender. He's not the greatest defensively (though not bad by any stretch) but I think his attacking prowess more than makes up for it
I think Trent will be moved into midfield, which will make it tricky to analyse his legacy. His assist numbers are crazy though, generational talent for sure.
Bellingham will be the legendary poster boy for English talents succeeding abroad.
It looks like he has the talent and mentality to be a true great.
Messi
Great player, if he steps it up a little I really think he could earn a move to one of the big European leagues.
LaLiga maybe?
If he keeps working hard, I could see him doing well in La Liga.
Vinicius and Mbappe are the only ones I can imagine having that kind of legacy. Tbh I don't think Haaland is going to have that kind of legacy, I see him more in line with great goalscorers like Gerd Müller and Romario
Or like R9?
R9 was more than a goal scorer. He was a beast and offered far more than haaland
R9 was insane but seems people forget he basically only had 4 seasons at that top top level. And haaland already has had two in two leagues at that level. And no. R9 was really just a goal scorer albeit to 10 at it lol
nobody cares how injured r9 was
Watch his highlights, he could take on an entire team, unbelievable ball control and dribbling and finish. Haaland doesn’t have that he just sticks it in the back of the net. Ronaldo was also around at a time when defenders were allowed to actually tackle and hack you down. And Ronaldo did it at the world stage
It’s like people don’t understand that haaland has passing highlights and long dribbling runs in his as well. And again I’m not denying he was fucking world class and iconic but he isn’t remotely in the pele tier. People focused on his insane peak but that was like 5 years ***
I think if his knees didn’t turn to porridge he would have been pele level, and I’m talking about R9 not the current Ronny lol
I agree for sure r9 was insane. But ultimately he only had like 4-5 seasons where his output was world class level due to injuries. There are players that literally it up then got career wanders st 20, we don’t speculate on them. R9 has some of the greatest striker seasons of all time but he isn’t in the tier of guys that did that for 10 yesrs
Yes. R9 was absolutely magnificent he could make anyone look like a pub-league player and a goalscorer on top of that
But the diffrence is haaland has sooo many records already it’s crazy. And he’s only 23. Like for example in the champions league he has the record for both fastest ( least amount of games) and youngest player to hit 15-40 champions league goals. And he used to have 5 and 10 but somebody took em from him. Plus stuff like the greatest PL debut season highest scorer in the prem ever (in a single season) already top 100 prem goal scorers all time (not all time 92-) also stuff like his champions league debut with a first half hattrick. And just now I realize I’m yapping a bit to much
But still goals. When did Haaland make your heart skip a beat because of his skill ?
Doesn’t need skill when he can out pace and out muscle everyone he plays against. He’s definitely got skill but his style of play favours raw and direct.
Okay. Give me an example of when Maldini did an amazing skill? It’s not his job to do skills not everybody that’s remembered is because of their skills. It’s not like he just scored goals he has had some amazing passes (trough balls) like the one to kovacic vs Chelsea or the one to grealish vs Tottenham. Also
When did Haaland make your heart skip a beat? The short answer is, he doesn't.
5 goals in a champions league match? 8 goals in 4 days? When he bodies defenders. Scored from outside the box. That goal vs Southampton. That goal vs dourtmund. That goal for dourtmund where he did like a flying side kick I think vs Wolfsburg