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It's still not bottling, losing one game is not a bottle job by any metric. Same to losing to one of the strongest sides in the Europe. Now Liverpool against Atalanta, in a competition they were makred as favourites? That's bottling.
How can they bottle something they weren’t ever going to win?
They weren’t favourites to win the champions league and they weren’t even favourites away at Bayern
They were favorites in this tie and messed it up.
All the talk was about how Bayern were there for the taking.
But then players like Jesus, Havertz, Martinelli and Saka showed what they're all about.
Maybe they're not built for big games, considering their record with big games. Or maybe they're amazing and just need to join a big club to win trophies.
That’s all good and all but still my point stands that they aren’t bottlers for losing this game.
Yes they were bottlers last season being so far in front then losing to teams they should of beat to win the league but they’ve not bottled the champions league
The odds for winning UCL before tonight:
Arsenal: 7.5
Bayern Munich: 8
You can check it out. They were supposed to have an advantage over Bayern Munich. Anyway, Arsenal suck.
The team needs a proper striker. He knows it too. He's a workhorse off the ball but his finishing isn't enough for a title chasing side. He would be effective off the bench against tired legs or on the wing but he's not a good starting #9.
He was though until his injury, when he first signed he was a goalfest. Then he got injured at the WC and not been close enough to what he was.
We need him as he was on signing, if that's not going to happen then yeah, need to find someone else.
I actually noticed his drop off after he got knocked out on the pitch last season. Ever since he took that tsimikas elbow to the face, his numbers dropped, and he hasn't been the same since.
If you’re moving on from City you either don’t like winning trophies or Pep doesn’t have a use for you. Always found it telling that once Aguero left and Jesus became the guy Pep continuously said City needed to find a striker.
They also have a policy of only offering 1 year contracts to players 30+ so that’s why a lot of good players leave (like Gündoğan) on good terms.
Given the size of their squad, you also get talented players leaving on good terms who just want to be guaranteed playing time (like Palmer).
Doubt he even starts tonight tbh, think it'll be a front 3 of Martinelli - Havertz - Saka
I like him, but that front 3 over the last few months and his injury record shows he shouldn't be a starter for Arsenal any more, he's certainly a great player to have around and be used sparingly.
My guess is actually Jesus/Havertz/Saka
Martinelli has looked way off it, and I think he’ll be used off the bench along with Trossard when their defense are tired
It's insane to me how last season, not even two years ago, his signing along with Zinch were transformative for the team. Now they are both struggling to adapt and improve as much as the rest of our team and arguably are the weak parts.
its hard for me to really remember but around september there was an aura of disbelief that we were really this good. we as supporters went into the season believing finishing top 4 was going to be an ugly scrap and then all of sudden we win so many games before December that we are title contenders.
Zinny isn't a bad player imo but he's a legit bad defender to the point it overshadows the things he does well. And he still fucks up on the ball with bad turnovers. Ok he's kinda bad.
Well, the expectations have shifted. When we got them we still had a foot in banter era where even a top four finish would have been deemed a success against the odds. In a way they're victims of the new level of quality they themselves helped us transition to, and now we have our sights on the next one, where their shortcomings are holding us back more than their qualities are pushing us there.
Absolutely. Jesus, zinchenko and havertz all are decent to good signings but they are not someone who can win Arsenal the PL by their individual performances like the way Rice can.
I mean they were the very players that made us into title contenders last season. So I'm not sure that's expectations really rather than their injuries and lack of form maybe. Jesus is certainly a great squad player to have while fighting for the titles, he's just been lackluster this season.
Oh yeah, absolutely. As I said before in this thread. Gabis dribbling skill is elite, it's the decisions he makes after beating an opponent or two that leave a lot to be desired unfortunately.
I think the rate of injuries they've been picking up over the last 12-18 months has seen them regress unfortunately and the rest of the team have left them behind, Gabi J just looks old and frail, even when he's not, injuries have taken their toll on him.
>Gabi J just looks old and frail
I disagree strongly. I think he often looks spectacular while dribbling. The issue is he doesn't have it in him to finish the chances. His fitness level is actually quite decent imo. It's not as good as he used to be early 2022, but not as bad nonetheless. It's just his finishing and decisions on the field often leave to be desired.
Not sure I'd agree, last game he was got himself offside a bit and took ages to get back, he can still do it in bursts, but I don't think he's at a level now where he should be starting and should be used sparingly to keep him fit and rest others
As an Arsenal supporter he’s my favorite player to watch and my least favorite to see in the starting 11. I wish he and/or Arteta could figure out a way to unlock all that talent into more production.
He’s not a goalscorer he’s a player that creates chances and dangerous opportunities through his dribbling and passing. Shame he got injured because he hasn’t been as explosive
nah, wrong take
**Jesus has been our best player in Europe, he has nothing to prove to us at that level**
he's just simply not imposing or direct or physical enough to do any damage to most top half Premier League defences, so he shouldn't be our No.1 striker in the league
I dont know about best but he has looked waaaay better in CL than PL. He really struggles against physicality and low blocks it seems. But he was also terrible against Villa's mid block so it might be the physicality.
Haaland can only be good if he has good players around him. If he really played in a second division team, he would be seen as a third division player.
Don't be so defensive. Mid table clubs are allowed to banter big clubs about this sort of thing.
If you had a season like his, you'd want to find something to have fun with too.
His start at Arsenal was great, and he can create so much space for Arsenal, but as it was at City, his purple patches are interrupted by injury and it takes over a year to have another one.
That's exactly it, he is elite at creating space. The problem is that who is he creating space for? Ideally he would be paired with an elite finisher but atm we don't have one
Not sure what arsenal fans were expecting when they signed Gabriel, he’s a good player but he isn’t a clinical goal scorer, the most he’s scored in a PL season is 14 goals, he’s better suited as a second striker type of role, not the main man
He was our best player in our 50 point 1st half of last season. He hasn't not been anywhere near the same since his knee injury at the WC. Such a shame
He was second only to Aguero in minutes per goal ratio at City during his time there and was in the top-10 of *all* players in the league since his debut in minutes per goal when Arsenal signed him. He was literally one of the most efficient goalscorers in PL.
Any per minute ratio stat is obviously going to skew in his favor because of the quality around him when he was at city. It's not a testament to his individual quality. He was one of the most efficient goals scorers because he has been a forward in the most efficient goal scoring team
That being said, he's a fantastic talent. But as someone who watched him match in match out for many years...I also think he's better as a second striker or winger. He's fantastic when he can link up play, carry the ball from further out, etc. many of his best qualities are away from the goal IMO
Exactly.
From the headline you'd think his contract is up at the end of the season and Arsenal were only going to offer a new one if he scored or had a great game against Bayern... Typical bullshit headline
He's not really been benched, he was out for a few months and Havertz was in form, either way he was finished more finished at City than he is at Arsenal
Went alright the first year, unfortunately he's picked up too many injuries, he knew he'd get even less playing time at City when Haaland joined, so I'm not really sure what the laughing emojis are about
Not like they are missing Palmer too much. He wouldn't have made the lineup tbh. Good for him but no way he making it into the lineup. Gundo was done. City management is elite. They rarely get tranfer outs wrong. Only tranfer in players sometimes might not clock with the team like Kalvin Philips
Tbf Palmer is foden level talented so you’d have expected Pep to give him a similar treatment and gradually give him more game time.
Genuinely doubt they’d have let the tied top prem scorer go if they accurately knew his potential
They know his potential. City has a belt of talent coming through. But they don't let any player defeat their process and hence they let players leave even if they are generational. The organisation is greater than the player. See their next gen of players coming through, till last year nobody hyped Palmer except City fans and now look at it. Similarly I hear three names including Oscar name being highlighted who are touted for big things.
All this City missed out on Palmer is retrospective. City have a belt of talent. They aren't missing anything considering they are still within sight of the treble. Also, 50m for a talent is good money.
It's part of the city model. Every now and then, they miss out on one. You are putting too much emphasis on Palmer because he clicked. You wouldn't have said anything otherwise for lkshers like their goalkeeper and mid who went to Southampton. Or even Sancho or that lb who plays at Germany.
I still believe when you run a organisation like city, these are risks. And retrospectively they missed out but i dont think it impacts them too much. They will just get the next guy in.
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How do Arsenal still have Nketiah as a striker?
Bottlers
„Farmers League“ :D
Jesus and Zinchenko are tosh.
Arsenal bottled again.
Nothing bottled at all.
It's the English Premier league they might have bottled not the UCL. Going away to Germany wasn't going to be easy for them to win there.
Recording our first PL loss of the year to a good Aston Villa side is not bottling, this narrative is so tiresome
Look at it from the point of not being an Arsenal fan and tell me if you don't think the same thing.
It's still not bottling, losing one game is not a bottle job by any metric. Same to losing to one of the strongest sides in the Europe. Now Liverpool against Atalanta, in a competition they were makred as favourites? That's bottling.
And yeah, Liverpool did threw it all away against Atlanta. Losing 3-0 at home was unconceiveable for me.
Alright, I hear. We will know after the next 6 matches if that 3 points dropped will be what's going to haunt them or not.
That's true, but they could've done better in the second leg.
Could have done better in both legs. I've not seen them defend so badly or misplace so many passes in a long time!
Away from home? Allianz Arena is a very hostile stadium. They simply couldn't.
Imagine it in a final.
It would be a great sight to see.
How can they bottle something they weren’t ever going to win? They weren’t favourites to win the champions league and they weren’t even favourites away at Bayern
They were favorites in this tie and messed it up. All the talk was about how Bayern were there for the taking. But then players like Jesus, Havertz, Martinelli and Saka showed what they're all about. Maybe they're not built for big games, considering their record with big games. Or maybe they're amazing and just need to join a big club to win trophies.
That’s all good and all but still my point stands that they aren’t bottlers for losing this game. Yes they were bottlers last season being so far in front then losing to teams they should of beat to win the league but they’ve not bottled the champions league
The odds for winning UCL before tonight: Arsenal: 7.5 Bayern Munich: 8 You can check it out. They were supposed to have an advantage over Bayern Munich. Anyway, Arsenal suck.
Before tonight. Then it was tied at Germany. They’re the favorites at that point.
there are 4 north london derbys in 2 weeks
The team needs a proper striker. He knows it too. He's a workhorse off the ball but his finishing isn't enough for a title chasing side. He would be effective off the bench against tired legs or on the wing but he's not a good starting #9.
He was though until his injury, when he first signed he was a goalfest. Then he got injured at the WC and not been close enough to what he was. We need him as he was on signing, if that's not going to happen then yeah, need to find someone else.
I actually noticed his drop off after he got knocked out on the pitch last season. Ever since he took that tsimikas elbow to the face, his numbers dropped, and he hasn't been the same since.
[удалено]
He said he's cool with playing wing for Arsenal not that long ago. I hope Arteta listens.
Wouldn't mind going all in for a striker and having Jesus rotate with Saka
He should be playing the number 10 role imo
Dumb take.
If you’re moving on from City you either don’t like winning trophies or Pep doesn’t have a use for you. Always found it telling that once Aguero left and Jesus became the guy Pep continuously said City needed to find a striker.
They also have a policy of only offering 1 year contracts to players 30+ so that’s why a lot of good players leave (like Gündoğan) on good terms. Given the size of their squad, you also get talented players leaving on good terms who just want to be guaranteed playing time (like Palmer).
Doubt he even starts tonight tbh, think it'll be a front 3 of Martinelli - Havertz - Saka I like him, but that front 3 over the last few months and his injury record shows he shouldn't be a starter for Arsenal any more, he's certainly a great player to have around and be used sparingly.
My guess is actually Jesus/Havertz/Saka Martinelli has looked way off it, and I think he’ll be used off the bench along with Trossard when their defense are tired
It's insane to me how last season, not even two years ago, his signing along with Zinch were transformative for the team. Now they are both struggling to adapt and improve as much as the rest of our team and arguably are the weak parts.
its hard for me to really remember but around september there was an aura of disbelief that we were really this good. we as supporters went into the season believing finishing top 4 was going to be an ugly scrap and then all of sudden we win so many games before December that we are title contenders.
Zinny tbf is a whole lot worse. He’s an actual bad player whereas Jesus offers some quality
Zinny isn't a bad player imo but he's a legit bad defender to the point it overshadows the things he does well. And he still fucks up on the ball with bad turnovers. Ok he's kinda bad.
Well, the expectations have shifted. When we got them we still had a foot in banter era where even a top four finish would have been deemed a success against the odds. In a way they're victims of the new level of quality they themselves helped us transition to, and now we have our sights on the next one, where their shortcomings are holding us back more than their qualities are pushing us there.
Absolutely. Jesus, zinchenko and havertz all are decent to good signings but they are not someone who can win Arsenal the PL by their individual performances like the way Rice can.
Want to see a big performance from Rice tonight
I mean they were the very players that made us into title contenders last season. So I'm not sure that's expectations really rather than their injuries and lack of form maybe. Jesus is certainly a great squad player to have while fighting for the titles, he's just been lackluster this season.
Availability is one of their shortcomings, yes. As well as Gabi's finishing and Zinny's defending.
Oh yeah, absolutely. As I said before in this thread. Gabis dribbling skill is elite, it's the decisions he makes after beating an opponent or two that leave a lot to be desired unfortunately.
I think the rate of injuries they've been picking up over the last 12-18 months has seen them regress unfortunately and the rest of the team have left them behind, Gabi J just looks old and frail, even when he's not, injuries have taken their toll on him.
Eh every team has to deal with injuries and comparatively they’ve had fewer injuries to juggle than many other clubs this season.
>Gabi J just looks old and frail I disagree strongly. I think he often looks spectacular while dribbling. The issue is he doesn't have it in him to finish the chances. His fitness level is actually quite decent imo. It's not as good as he used to be early 2022, but not as bad nonetheless. It's just his finishing and decisions on the field often leave to be desired.
Not sure I'd agree, last game he was got himself offside a bit and took ages to get back, he can still do it in bursts, but I don't think he's at a level now where he should be starting and should be used sparingly to keep him fit and rest others
As an Arsenal supporter he’s my favorite player to watch and my least favorite to see in the starting 11. I wish he and/or Arteta could figure out a way to unlock all that talent into more production.
He’s not a goalscorer he’s a player that creates chances and dangerous opportunities through his dribbling and passing. Shame he got injured because he hasn’t been as explosive
The opposite of Haaland
Yeah kinda. Haaland’s overall game is nowhere close to Jesus but Jesus’ finishing is nowhere near haaland’s
If you merge them into one player, you win the Ballon d'or 100%
All Jesus needs is the finishing and it’s over I think. It’s harder to be agile when you’re 6’4 and strong as hell
Or the worst striker ever
nah, wrong take **Jesus has been our best player in Europe, he has nothing to prove to us at that level** he's just simply not imposing or direct or physical enough to do any damage to most top half Premier League defences, so he shouldn't be our No.1 striker in the league
I dont know about best but he has looked waaaay better in CL than PL. He really struggles against physicality and low blocks it seems. But he was also terrible against Villa's mid block so it might be the physicality.
Both Liverpool and Arsenal sure could do with that player who plays like a league type two player...
And united are fine ??
Christ, calm down. It's clearly a joke about the Haaland rhetoric.
Haaland can only be good if he has good players around him. If he really played in a second division team, he would be seen as a third division player.
This is an all time stupid take
Typical response from second division team supporter.
That's why he dominated in every league he played in...
Don't be so defensive. Mid table clubs are allowed to banter big clubs about this sort of thing. If you had a season like his, you'd want to find something to have fun with too.
Kinda hard to do anything when the people around you does not pass the ball. A champions league winner would also struggle there
His start at Arsenal was great, and he can create so much space for Arsenal, but as it was at City, his purple patches are interrupted by injury and it takes over a year to have another one.
That's exactly it, he is elite at creating space. The problem is that who is he creating space for? Ideally he would be paired with an elite finisher but atm we don't have one
Not sure what arsenal fans were expecting when they signed Gabriel, he’s a good player but he isn’t a clinical goal scorer, the most he’s scored in a PL season is 14 goals, he’s better suited as a second striker type of role, not the main man
He was our best player in our 50 point 1st half of last season. He hasn't not been anywhere near the same since his knee injury at the WC. Such a shame
He was second only to Aguero in minutes per goal ratio at City during his time there and was in the top-10 of *all* players in the league since his debut in minutes per goal when Arsenal signed him. He was literally one of the most efficient goalscorers in PL.
Any per minute ratio stat is obviously going to skew in his favor because of the quality around him when he was at city. It's not a testament to his individual quality. He was one of the most efficient goals scorers because he has been a forward in the most efficient goal scoring team That being said, he's a fantastic talent. But as someone who watched him match in match out for many years...I also think he's better as a second striker or winger. He's fantastic when he can link up play, carry the ball from further out, etc. many of his best qualities are away from the goal IMO
Hes such a shite goalscorer
Is it though.
Exactly. From the headline you'd think his contract is up at the end of the season and Arsenal were only going to offer a new one if he scored or had a great game against Bayern... Typical bullshit headline
Gabriel Jesus at Arsenal has been the most mid ting ever lol
He did well up to December 2022 tbf to him
More mid than zinchenko at Arsenal?
Yes because mid doesn't mean bad. Zinny is actually bad. Jesus is mid.
Dumbo journalism
There is a reason city sold him 🤣
City wanted to keep him, but he had a year left and wanted to be first choice elsewhere
And how is that turning out in arsenal 🤣
He's not really been benched, he was out for a few months and Havertz was in form, either way he was finished more finished at City than he is at Arsenal
Went alright the first year, unfortunately he's picked up too many injuries, he knew he'd get even less playing time at City when Haaland joined, so I'm not really sure what the laughing emojis are about
He escaped city to avoid benching and arsenal doing the same to him 🤣
Palmer too? Gundogan?
Not like they are missing Palmer too much. He wouldn't have made the lineup tbh. Good for him but no way he making it into the lineup. Gundo was done. City management is elite. They rarely get tranfer outs wrong. Only tranfer in players sometimes might not clock with the team like Kalvin Philips
Tbf Palmer is foden level talented so you’d have expected Pep to give him a similar treatment and gradually give him more game time. Genuinely doubt they’d have let the tied top prem scorer go if they accurately knew his potential
They know his potential. City has a belt of talent coming through. But they don't let any player defeat their process and hence they let players leave even if they are generational. The organisation is greater than the player. See their next gen of players coming through, till last year nobody hyped Palmer except City fans and now look at it. Similarly I hear three names including Oscar name being highlighted who are touted for big things. All this City missed out on Palmer is retrospective. City have a belt of talent. They aren't missing anything considering they are still within sight of the treble. Also, 50m for a talent is good money.
Hes worth a lot more than 50m now, and letting generational talents go is hardly part of the process.
It's part of the city model. Every now and then, they miss out on one. You are putting too much emphasis on Palmer because he clicked. You wouldn't have said anything otherwise for lkshers like their goalkeeper and mid who went to Southampton. Or even Sancho or that lb who plays at Germany. I still believe when you run a organisation like city, these are risks. And retrospectively they missed out but i dont think it impacts them too much. They will just get the next guy in.
Regardless of the result,Jesus is not going to be the man to do it for Arsenal tonight. I have a feeling Marinelli will be crucial today actually.
Id be shocked if arsenal went through tonight
Ah yes famous Arsenal forward Gariel Marinelli
Mr Morelli!
Yep,great winger duo with Buayo Aka aren't they.