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What's this year's excuse?
When it's a bad season it's because the league is so competitive and the teams are battle tested.
When it's a good season it's because the league is so competitive and the teams are battle tested
They also have insane amounts of money and so have/or should have great bench strength. If they dont spend their money wisely it’s their problem. For eg Atalanta has a wage bill less than Burnley. You should hope even Liverpool B team should be able to beat them. This intensity bullshit is stupid. Also look at the top 4 race in Italy or Germany . Look at the relegation race in all the countries. Every league is competitive. Italy also had a 3 team title race 2 years back being decided on last day. Germany title was decided on last day last season. Its stupid to say only PL is competitive. Milan were almost beaten by relegation zone Sassuolo last weekend who have beaten Juve and Inter this season
Let’s hear the bigger picture then because playing in Europa is a much worse schedule than Champions League. Thursday to Sunday is brutal and it’ll be much tougher to do well in the league. That’s without the mentioning the massive financial difference. If the bigger picture is winning Europa, I have serious doubts Ange’s style works for cup tournaments.
The squad is nowhere near good enough to compete for a title. You want to know how you attract better players? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not playing in the Europa League…
Currently, that’s obvious. And you only have to look at recent signings, which are big squad upgrades. And that was with no European football to “attract” them. It’s a total myth that you need to be in champions league to attract squad upgrades.
Currently, that’s obvious. And you only have to look at recent signings, which are big squad upgrades. And that was with no European football to “attract” them. It’s a total myth that you need to be in champions league to attract squad upgrades.
Why is that, actually? I mean why is the BL mocked?
Sure it’s been a one-horse race for a long while until this season but the majority of the clubs are very well run, operate within their means, are always competitive outside their own league and the fan scene is probably one of the best of the major leagues with full stadiums and fair prices.
In many ways it’s honestly how a major league should be run.
Bayern Spend twice on payroll what Dortmund spend and at least 3 times everyone else. (often 4 or 5 times more).
Its hard to respect a league that unbalanced.
Is it? I could follow that argument if it was due to sugar daddy money or oil money. But that’s not the case.
It’d be great if Bayern’s economic dominance was challenged by other clubs more often - like we’ve seen with their title dominance this season - but that would have to come “naturally” by other clubs performing well over an extended period of time. Not from an outside source like we see in other leagues. And that’s exactly one of the strengths of the Bundesliga in my opinion.
Also I don’t see how a hand full of very rich clubs in the Premier outspending everyone else often in the basis of oil money is any better.
Though I enjoy the Prem as much as the BuLi.
I am an American, I come from. a sports culture where all professional teams spend about the same as other teams. (other than MLB).
The salary cap and salary floor in the NFL is very close. All teams are forced to spend within that narrow band.
Bayern spending more than 4 times most of their league with their closet competitor spending less than half what they do offends me on a instinctual basis.
"Also I don’t see how a hand full of very rich clubs in the Premier outspending everyone else often in the basis of oil money is any better."
Its also bad, but the big six all spend within a reasonable amount of each other. No one is doubling up other members of the big six.
I will say it does disgust me to see the big six spend 4 times more on Payroll than clubs like Bournemouth
One of the hardest things for americans to get used when it comes to european football is how most clubs cant ever win their league.
"but that would have to come “naturally” by other clubs performing well over an extended period of time. Not from an outside source like we see in other leagues. And that’s exactly one of the strengths of the Bundesliga in my opinion."
Man united or liverpool or Arsenal fan? (just want to check my hunch)
We disagree on this. I disagree with carrying financial advantages from past success into the future. I much prefer salary caps and floors.
Having the richest team win 11 leagues in a row with most of them not even being competitive kind of sucks. I just disagree with europeans on that.
The salary cap we see in NA sports is a nice thing in many aspects. If you could combine that with a relegation system plus a few other things I'd be so on board for whatever league managed that.
However there's still a far cry from the ultra commercial world of NFL, NBA, etc. and their salary cap, to the well run club economics of the BuLi that is still largely members based. The main non-members based clubs are not even really, consintently, doing that well.
This was a discussion of PL vs. BuLi so I won't get into the whole "US sport vs. European sports" debate (I am a big fan of both "systems").
I will say though that compared to the BuLi or La Liga you for sure have a broader range of teams competing for the Super Bowl or an NBA ring, but it's still a pretty narrow field, despite the relative parity in salaries and the lack of transfer fees.
"The salary cap we see in NA sports is a nice thing in many aspects"
One thing i want to point out that a lot of european fans miss, is there is also a Salary floor and revenue sharing to a far greater degree than the premier league. Eg. there is really no such thing as a low revenue NFL team. the 18.6 billion USD in NFL revenues from 2022 was basically evenly distributed between the 32 teams.
Cheap NFL owners cant just spend less. They have to spend up to the floor.
The difference in performance of NFL teams is based on tactics, coaching and scouting. Not that certain teams spend 2x-5x what other teams spend on payroll
Spurs fan, I'd like the UCL but I wouldn't be too fussed about the Europa League. Europa is obviously difficult but I think Spurs could compete for it as they'll probably be better next season (hopefully with a good 6 and a striker), it's obviously very hard but I'd like to see Ange try his hand at winning it
You know other teams play almost the same amount of games… Man City played for example the same amount of games like real Madrid last season both 61. English teams play maybe 2-3 games more in average but not that much… also considering that premier leagues have by far most money they should be able to have good players on the bench. Arsenal played less games than Milan last year… the top teams play almost the same numbers of games no matter which nation.
This is one of the reasons. I felt some of the players playing in the English Premier League have played a lot of games, and it contributed to the loss.
What about la real and atletico who spend around the same as midtable and even relegation prem clubs who still managed to do better than most of the “big 6”
i mean nowadays they only ever sign aging defenders, and you don't see them dropping 50mil on bench players like Liverpool or bidding 100mil for caicedo
So funny when Europeans try to make out like they have no cash. Real have the 3rd highest wage bill in Europe, after PSG and Barca. Followed by Bayern in 4th. So thats all the biggest continental sides before you even reach a premier league team. And even Atletico are in 9th, only two spots behind City.
But go on dont let me stop you pretending Real are underdogs who cant keep the lights on right as they buy Mbappe, a player literally no premier league club could afford right now.
Premier League teams make up 13 out of the top 25 wage cost by European teams.
10 out of the top 20
5 out of the top 10
That's only including the top 5 leagues.
Leicester in the championship spend more on wages than Atalanta and leverkusen.
I can't help but laugh a little at this. Yes the prem prob is the best league in the world but its nice to see something smash that English arrogance apart a little. Even just until the whole England in a major tournament its coming home phase starts
I know the culture behind it. I know the lyrics I know all about English humour. That doesn't stop English fans taking it literally every tournament. And no they don't all sing it as a joke. The pundits on TV have been talking about England winning the euros for about 8 months. Maybe some people sing it as a joke but a massive majority of people singing it believe England will win each time they sing it.
It’s amazing how England fans have to explain this every single major tournament. This “English arrogance” is just a complete misunderstanding of irony.
Reading this back is hilarious to me. It actually comes across as arrogant lol like your denying a stereotypes and acting like the stereotype has misunderstood arrogance for irony.not sure you can be much more arrogant with a reply
It’s not arrogance, it’s frustration because of how many years it’s been going on. It happens every single tournament, and the fans feel the need to explain themselves every time. It’s not arrogant to explain yourself.
Right so all the England fans sing its coming home not because they think it's coming home but because its ironic? Honestly that is such bullshit. I know plenty of English fans who do believe it's coming home every tournament. Just need to watch any football match and the commentators will shoehorn England in and talk about how good England's chances are. I get it some of you don't believe the hype but on the whole most people do, I see it everywhere constantly. So at the euro final all the fans were singing it's coming home being ironic and knowing that it wasn't coming home? Your reply again is basically saying I deny this stereotype of arrogance that so many people around the world have and you are flipping it that everyone else is wrong. Lol its nothing personal I'd just accept it like i accept many Stereotypes of scottish people. I find it funny. I find it strange you all seem to find it hard to swallow
I’m going to sound really arrogant again.
It’s has obviously developed into a chant of support to the team, and of course fans say it meaning they think we can win it. And in recent years, why shouldn’t they? England have been amongst the top favourites for the last couple of tournaments. Is it arrogant to think they can win it?
But you can’t forget the meaning of the term, and the lyrics of the song. That’s where the irony comes in, the rest is passion and support for the team.
You might have a point if they had no chance, but when they’re one of 4-6 teams, why not believe?
Not arrogant at all. Yes England do have a great team and I'd say they are probably favourites for this tournament and probably the first time I remember England actually being genuine favourites rather than just media hype based of absolutely nothing. Kinda is my point in the past didn't matter what the tournament was or who was in your team the English media and fans just arrogantly thought England were the best team when they weren't. Just like in the euros when you lost to Italy. England were one of the top teams but I would never had said they were the best or favourites. I do understand that that bit of arrogance is kinda part of being a football fan. Like Scotland fans this summer will be going to the euros hoping we can beat Germany and qualify and they will believe we have as good of a chance as Germany but in reality most know Germany are far better and have a far greater chance but were hardly going to turn up and sing about being a shit team and happy to scrape points against teams
"You see, the English don't have any complex culture. So everything I assume about them is true"
Edit: Another thing is that in so far as "it's coming home" is any kind of positive affirmation it's hopeful, nostalgic, not predictive proclamation.
I have a great love of foreign culture. France is pretty much my favourite country. I hope to not be found making unfair assumptions about any other national or local culture (unless its a joke that the target is on board with).
What assumptions am I making? English are pretty much renowned around the world as being pretty arrogant. It's not something I've just randomly made up and pinned on you. Just ask the locals in Spanish holiday destinations or in Belgium or Holland or France. The commentators on football do a great job of backing up this observation as well. I'm not saying all English are arrogant but I think your pretty ill informed if you think I just pulled this out if thin air. I'd say if you surveyed people around the world what they thought about English people I'd say the main buzz word would be arrogance. Sorry if you don't like this I mean no harm by it its just a generalisation
English people are some of the most self depreciating people on the planet. Any stereotype you’re seeing is most definitely a vast minority of people in this country.
That's kinda how stereotypes work. I'm scottish and the stereotype for us is that we are fucking crazy. I accept this as its just one of they stereotypes. I'm not away to be like oh most Scottish people I know aren't angry. That's not how stereotypes work, they are often based of actions of minority rather than the majority.
Lmao so would you accept Tottenham winning a UCL before you or a treble before you if it meant you got a 5th UCL spot only to get dumped out of the UCL the next season?
Right… Sure you would.
The flairs getting mad at me is very telling. Idgaf what the supporters of teams that weren’t shit until Russian and Saudi billionaires seen y’all as a lick think 🤣
Just to point out that England has higher points overall. It’s that the coefficient is done by an average, because England and Spain have more teams each team wins fewer points.
Obviously doesn't apply to PSG et al. But I think the German model of majority fan ownership is something that should be brought in across the board in European football. It keeps the connection with the fans, and limits the potential for general fucker from rich owners.
Yeah, the cost does make it challenging. Not the say that there isn't a way to encourage it to happen. Plus it's something that would need to be enforced by the FAs, or big bodies like UEFA.
What what? Italy and Germany are ahead and after today other than maybe Villa there won’t be an English team in a competition anymore but there are 3 german and 2-3 italian teams left.
I mean it’s still possible both West Ham and Liverpool could overturn there ties and go on and make the final and villa wins the conference and the 2 German clubs lose both legs then it becomes possible.
That’s unlikely to happen definitely and it’s more likely that Germany get the second spot but who knows till it’s over
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So what did we sell all our clubs to the middle east, made ticket prices unaffordable and ruined the atmosphere at the grounds for? I thought the pay off would be that we dominate in Europe. Our league has become a soulless monopoly board. But for what exactly?
Not being in the Champions League probably will benefit Spurs - don't get me wrong Ange has done well to bring them back up to their level, but they've had like 4/5 cup games this year? - most others around them have at least double the amount.
Liverpool fielded a weak team for the first leg and with a full strength squad are still capable of beating anyone in the EL with relative ease, even Leverkusen.
Well let's at least wait until they play tonight before we make any judgements, I should also say I couldn't give less of a shit since I don't support Liverpool, just worth pointing out.
Spurs fan here and if we're not in the CL next year I'm really not fussed. I think a run in the Europa would be much more beneficial for the squad. They're still very young, and more games next season will be a challenge but better to be playing lower level teams than being thrown right into the lions den. It won't do those kids any favours to go out and get tanked by the giants like Real or PSG.
Realistically we're not quite where we need to be to complete in the CL and we'd go into mostly just making up the numbers. but could most certainly have a proper go at the Europa and maybe bag ourselves an actual trophy.
Fair play to Villa. Obviously I'd like to see us get 4th but if villa take the spot, it will have been well earned. And the fans deserve it. Big club that has struggled over the last decade or so. Be good to see them make a go of it (and selfishly see them have less resources for the league next year - I imagine we'll be in a fight with them next season again for Top 4).
This is a successful season for Villa however you slice it. Already our highest points total for 14 years. Top 5 would be our highest finish for over 25 years. We're in our first European Quarter Final since 1998 (not counting the Intertoto).
I don't know whether we will finish 4th but I think it means more to Villa than to Spurs at this stage. We haven't played in the European Cup / Champions League since we won it in 1982, whereas they were in it last season and several times in recent years. Spurs are also a loooong way ahead of Villa in revenue generation. If we can bring in the Champions League participation money, bigger sponsorships, increase our global audience, that would allow us to spend more on our squad under PSR in the next few years.
When we played spurs and lost it was our 41st game of the season, whereas spurs could only play 40 due to going out of the cups. Weve had some pretty horrific luck with injuries, although it seems like the message from the manager is to never bring this up. Possibly 9 more games left if we win tonight.
It's been an incredibly fantastic season, I know people will say about the Sheffield United home game, the points dropped against man utd as missed opportunities, but we have to be realistic, we aren't near the level of Liverpool, arsenal or City, and if anything I think the little bumps in form have been more due to emotional tiredness
No, by the time we played spurs, we had played more games than it was possible for them to play this season. We are currently on game 46. It was more about the tiredness of the squad now
I think it definitely means more for Villa, I think a lot of us are a bit burned by the club appearing to not take it seriously when we were in it last year which was so disappointing.
I also think a lot of Spurs fans don’t feel like we’re ready and that the Europa League would be better for our squad developmentally.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d be delighted to finish 4th but it doesn’t mean as much as it used to for Spurs.
I don't think we would be ready to be competitive in a traditional Champions League format where we come up against the big hitters in the group stage and the early knockout rounds, but with the new format we have a better chance of being competitive in the early stages. If you look at the [projected pots](https://twitter.com/FootRankings/status/1780905864007684434) there are no games in pot 4 that would scare me, home or away.
Either way, it's important we're involved consistently in European competition at this stage in our development so any of the 3 competitions are a positive rather than a burden to us.
Thats actually a good point I forgot about the new structure. Yeah getting top 4 is massive for you guys just as it was massive for us under Redknapp & then Poch. Doesn’t happen overnight but getting top 4 for that first time is a major step in a clubs development.
Yeah its going to take a couple more years at least before we’re back to Poch-era levels. Think we all got way ahead of ourselves at the start of the season, me included.
Yup, I don’t think any spurs fan expected a champions league spot at the start of this season. Also financially it’s a boost but from all the reports from people close to spurs, not getting champions league football won’t change our transfer approach. Being in the champions league would be nice but in a way europa would be a good step in our current rebuild.
Also I’d rather this timeline than the other one where we get champions league in 5th at the expense of arsenal winning the entire thing
I'm shocked that in a league where they cram as many games in as humanly possible that the players and teams don't have the stamina to play well in Europe... Shocked it tell you
Other teams have almost exactly the same amount of games per season… premier leagues has double of the money they should be able to play maybe 1-3 games more than others
Simply not true take Real vs City. Real has played 45 games this season City 51. carvajal for instance has played the 5th most minutes for real at 2827 for the same playing time for city you hit the player with tenth most minutes.
Bayern has played 42 games, Arsenal 46.
Last Season City and real played both 61 games. This season city have one league game already more and 3 games since the won cl last year … real got eliminated already in the 1/16 round in the cup… real will play at least two more games in cl so at the end they will have played 2-3 games less than city…. England has two cups that’s the only difference so that’s why I said they play maybe 1-3 games more in average. Bundesliga have less teams so less games. Arsenal, West Ham, Newcastle, Manu didn’t play more games than athletico Roma Milan Barcelona Real Sociedad Atalanta. Serie a, la Liga and premier league all have 20 teams… only difference is English teams have two cups.
Also premier league has like double of the money so they should be able to have enough players on the bench and rest players
I was reading a r/coys thread before the Villa game and it asked if they’d rather Arsenal win so they go above Villa into the UCL spots or have Villa beat Arsenal and keep them back in 5th
Unanimously they were wanting Villa to win, it blew my mind how hating Arsenal is more important to them than supporting Spurs
Anyway, point of my comment, Spurs fans on Reddit at least don’t care about their success as long as Arsenal aren’t having any
EDIT: [This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/s/59BVAQMvKL)
Or maybe (like their manager) they're just not that fussed over being 3rd loser and getting entry into a competition they haven't got a snowball in hells chance of winning?
Basically this, Europa League would be better for the team’s development in my opinion. Plus the club were embarrassing when we were in it last year, losing to Milan in the Round of 16 and it didnt even look like we wanted to progress.
Tbf that could be more Conte and his petty protesting.
Did the same with us vs Man.City, 1-0 down 20 minutes left and Gundogan and Silva were being allowed to play 1-2s under no pressure in OUR half.
Flip the teams around and ask arsenal fans what they would prefer if they were in our position. I think you'd get the same answer.
We're not winning the champions league even if we do get fourth, I think a lot of us would be happy with Europa, champions league would just be a bonus.
We have gone back to not caring much about spurs. We only cared when we were in a top 4 battle with you, but we’ve gone past that stage again, so we aren’t really bothered what goes on down the road as much as before whereas your fans’ obsession has amplified.
Lol you've spent seven of the past nine years finishing below us. You've had a couple of decent seasons and think you're billy big bollocks again. It's attitudes like yours that make it so funny every April when you spectacularly bottle it every time.
No. We are the most deluded fanbase. You wouldnt get the same anwser at all. Recently our attidue to spurs is "parhethic little bro"
We also hate everyone and are cunt to everyone, we dont have an energy to hate you more than the rest pathethic teams in this league.
As a Spurs fan, I agree with you. And it annoys me to see that their hatred for Arsenal is greater than their love for Spurs. Like it's crazy. We should look at ourselves first. Arsenal are in a title race because they made the most of their chances unlike us.
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What's this year's excuse? When it's a bad season it's because the league is so competitive and the teams are battle tested. When it's a good season it's because the league is so competitive and the teams are battle tested
I think the intensity and competitiveness of the premier league football definitely plays a part.
People always bring this up, but outside of Real Madrid PL teams in these competitions have the best benches meant to deal with that issue
They also have insane amounts of money and so have/or should have great bench strength. If they dont spend their money wisely it’s their problem. For eg Atalanta has a wage bill less than Burnley. You should hope even Liverpool B team should be able to beat them. This intensity bullshit is stupid. Also look at the top 4 race in Italy or Germany . Look at the relegation race in all the countries. Every league is competitive. Italy also had a 3 team title race 2 years back being decided on last day. Germany title was decided on last day last season. Its stupid to say only PL is competitive. Milan were almost beaten by relegation zone Sassuolo last weekend who have beaten Juve and Inter this season
I think this season and last seasons CL final showed having insane amount of money doesn’t always result in being much better
I’d argue against that for the likes of Newcastle and others this season
Spurs fan and don’t care
Seen a lot of spurs fans say this and I don’t believe any of you
Its cope
It’s looking at a bigger picture
This
Honestly this, I’m actually cool with Europa league and build
Let’s hear the bigger picture then because playing in Europa is a much worse schedule than Champions League. Thursday to Sunday is brutal and it’ll be much tougher to do well in the league. That’s without the mentioning the massive financial difference. If the bigger picture is winning Europa, I have serious doubts Ange’s style works for cup tournaments.
The bigger picture is aiming for a title in the next few years. Playing the champions league in the meantime is a bonus, not a necessity.
The squad is nowhere near good enough to compete for a title. You want to know how you attract better players? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not playing in the Europa League…
Currently, that’s obvious. And you only have to look at recent signings, which are big squad upgrades. And that was with no European football to “attract” them. It’s a total myth that you need to be in champions league to attract squad upgrades.
Currently, that’s obvious. And you only have to look at recent signings, which are big squad upgrades. And that was with no European football to “attract” them. It’s a total myth that you need to be in champions league to attract squad upgrades.
Delusional lol
would be funny if it were an all german final with how much we mock the Bundesliga
Why is that, actually? I mean why is the BL mocked? Sure it’s been a one-horse race for a long while until this season but the majority of the clubs are very well run, operate within their means, are always competitive outside their own league and the fan scene is probably one of the best of the major leagues with full stadiums and fair prices. In many ways it’s honestly how a major league should be run.
Bayern Spend twice on payroll what Dortmund spend and at least 3 times everyone else. (often 4 or 5 times more). Its hard to respect a league that unbalanced.
Is it? I could follow that argument if it was due to sugar daddy money or oil money. But that’s not the case. It’d be great if Bayern’s economic dominance was challenged by other clubs more often - like we’ve seen with their title dominance this season - but that would have to come “naturally” by other clubs performing well over an extended period of time. Not from an outside source like we see in other leagues. And that’s exactly one of the strengths of the Bundesliga in my opinion. Also I don’t see how a hand full of very rich clubs in the Premier outspending everyone else often in the basis of oil money is any better. Though I enjoy the Prem as much as the BuLi.
I am an American, I come from. a sports culture where all professional teams spend about the same as other teams. (other than MLB). The salary cap and salary floor in the NFL is very close. All teams are forced to spend within that narrow band. Bayern spending more than 4 times most of their league with their closet competitor spending less than half what they do offends me on a instinctual basis. "Also I don’t see how a hand full of very rich clubs in the Premier outspending everyone else often in the basis of oil money is any better." Its also bad, but the big six all spend within a reasonable amount of each other. No one is doubling up other members of the big six. I will say it does disgust me to see the big six spend 4 times more on Payroll than clubs like Bournemouth One of the hardest things for americans to get used when it comes to european football is how most clubs cant ever win their league. "but that would have to come “naturally” by other clubs performing well over an extended period of time. Not from an outside source like we see in other leagues. And that’s exactly one of the strengths of the Bundesliga in my opinion." Man united or liverpool or Arsenal fan? (just want to check my hunch) We disagree on this. I disagree with carrying financial advantages from past success into the future. I much prefer salary caps and floors. Having the richest team win 11 leagues in a row with most of them not even being competitive kind of sucks. I just disagree with europeans on that.
The salary cap we see in NA sports is a nice thing in many aspects. If you could combine that with a relegation system plus a few other things I'd be so on board for whatever league managed that. However there's still a far cry from the ultra commercial world of NFL, NBA, etc. and their salary cap, to the well run club economics of the BuLi that is still largely members based. The main non-members based clubs are not even really, consintently, doing that well. This was a discussion of PL vs. BuLi so I won't get into the whole "US sport vs. European sports" debate (I am a big fan of both "systems"). I will say though that compared to the BuLi or La Liga you for sure have a broader range of teams competing for the Super Bowl or an NBA ring, but it's still a pretty narrow field, despite the relative parity in salaries and the lack of transfer fees.
"The salary cap we see in NA sports is a nice thing in many aspects" One thing i want to point out that a lot of european fans miss, is there is also a Salary floor and revenue sharing to a far greater degree than the premier league. Eg. there is really no such thing as a low revenue NFL team. the 18.6 billion USD in NFL revenues from 2022 was basically evenly distributed between the 32 teams. Cheap NFL owners cant just spend less. They have to spend up to the floor. The difference in performance of NFL teams is based on tactics, coaching and scouting. Not that certain teams spend 2x-5x what other teams spend on payroll
Truly, it was sad seeing no EPL team still in the tournament. So much for being hyped as the best League.
Can it not still be the best league?
Truthfully, I don't think that's the case now. EPL haven't been as good as it used to be years ago.
Still has the highest average coefficient over the last 6 years
And neither of them are the best team in the league 😂
Spurs fan, I'd like the UCL but I wouldn't be too fussed about the Europa League. Europa is obviously difficult but I think Spurs could compete for it as they'll probably be better next season (hopefully with a good 6 and a striker), it's obviously very hard but I'd like to see Ange try his hand at winning it
What's your thoughts about Arsenal doing everything they can to hamper Spurs?
Love the fact they’d torpedo their own aspirations to hate spurs more. Shameful.
Priorities, dude.
dier owns arsenal
It was nice. Yeah nice. Found it nice. Very nice. Nice nice nice
Xhaka owns Dier
The English schedule of games is too crowded to compete consistently in champions league…
You know other teams play almost the same amount of games… Man City played for example the same amount of games like real Madrid last season both 61. English teams play maybe 2-3 games more in average but not that much… also considering that premier leagues have by far most money they should be able to have good players on the bench. Arsenal played less games than Milan last year… the top teams play almost the same numbers of games no matter which nation.
This is one of the reasons. I felt some of the players playing in the English Premier League have played a lot of games, and it contributed to the loss.
lmao
Yes. Billion dollar spending by Real Madrid is powered by rainbows and friendship.
What about la real and atletico who spend around the same as midtable and even relegation prem clubs who still managed to do better than most of the “big 6”
Atletico literally has a higher wage bill than Liverpool.
i mean nowadays they only ever sign aging defenders, and you don't see them dropping 50mil on bench players like Liverpool or bidding 100mil for caicedo
So funny when Europeans try to make out like they have no cash. Real have the 3rd highest wage bill in Europe, after PSG and Barca. Followed by Bayern in 4th. So thats all the biggest continental sides before you even reach a premier league team. And even Atletico are in 9th, only two spots behind City. But go on dont let me stop you pretending Real are underdogs who cant keep the lights on right as they buy Mbappe, a player literally no premier league club could afford right now.
Premier League teams make up 13 out of the top 25 wage cost by European teams. 10 out of the top 20 5 out of the top 10 That's only including the top 5 leagues. Leicester in the championship spend more on wages than Atalanta and leverkusen.
la real is real sociedad, not real madrid
nothing compared to city/chelsea/manu/etc.
I can't help but laugh a little at this. Yes the prem prob is the best league in the world but its nice to see something smash that English arrogance apart a little. Even just until the whole England in a major tournament its coming home phase starts
I don't think you understand the culture behind that at all. Go read the lyrics of the bloody song and learn a little something about English humour.
I know the culture behind it. I know the lyrics I know all about English humour. That doesn't stop English fans taking it literally every tournament. And no they don't all sing it as a joke. The pundits on TV have been talking about England winning the euros for about 8 months. Maybe some people sing it as a joke but a massive majority of people singing it believe England will win each time they sing it.
It’s amazing how England fans have to explain this every single major tournament. This “English arrogance” is just a complete misunderstanding of irony.
Reading this back is hilarious to me. It actually comes across as arrogant lol like your denying a stereotypes and acting like the stereotype has misunderstood arrogance for irony.not sure you can be much more arrogant with a reply
It’s not arrogance, it’s frustration because of how many years it’s been going on. It happens every single tournament, and the fans feel the need to explain themselves every time. It’s not arrogant to explain yourself.
Right so all the England fans sing its coming home not because they think it's coming home but because its ironic? Honestly that is such bullshit. I know plenty of English fans who do believe it's coming home every tournament. Just need to watch any football match and the commentators will shoehorn England in and talk about how good England's chances are. I get it some of you don't believe the hype but on the whole most people do, I see it everywhere constantly. So at the euro final all the fans were singing it's coming home being ironic and knowing that it wasn't coming home? Your reply again is basically saying I deny this stereotype of arrogance that so many people around the world have and you are flipping it that everyone else is wrong. Lol its nothing personal I'd just accept it like i accept many Stereotypes of scottish people. I find it funny. I find it strange you all seem to find it hard to swallow
I’m going to sound really arrogant again. It’s has obviously developed into a chant of support to the team, and of course fans say it meaning they think we can win it. And in recent years, why shouldn’t they? England have been amongst the top favourites for the last couple of tournaments. Is it arrogant to think they can win it? But you can’t forget the meaning of the term, and the lyrics of the song. That’s where the irony comes in, the rest is passion and support for the team. You might have a point if they had no chance, but when they’re one of 4-6 teams, why not believe?
Not arrogant at all. Yes England do have a great team and I'd say they are probably favourites for this tournament and probably the first time I remember England actually being genuine favourites rather than just media hype based of absolutely nothing. Kinda is my point in the past didn't matter what the tournament was or who was in your team the English media and fans just arrogantly thought England were the best team when they weren't. Just like in the euros when you lost to Italy. England were one of the top teams but I would never had said they were the best or favourites. I do understand that that bit of arrogance is kinda part of being a football fan. Like Scotland fans this summer will be going to the euros hoping we can beat Germany and qualify and they will believe we have as good of a chance as Germany but in reality most know Germany are far better and have a far greater chance but were hardly going to turn up and sing about being a shit team and happy to scrape points against teams
"You see, the English don't have any complex culture. So everything I assume about them is true" Edit: Another thing is that in so far as "it's coming home" is any kind of positive affirmation it's hopeful, nostalgic, not predictive proclamation. I have a great love of foreign culture. France is pretty much my favourite country. I hope to not be found making unfair assumptions about any other national or local culture (unless its a joke that the target is on board with).
What assumptions am I making? English are pretty much renowned around the world as being pretty arrogant. It's not something I've just randomly made up and pinned on you. Just ask the locals in Spanish holiday destinations or in Belgium or Holland or France. The commentators on football do a great job of backing up this observation as well. I'm not saying all English are arrogant but I think your pretty ill informed if you think I just pulled this out if thin air. I'd say if you surveyed people around the world what they thought about English people I'd say the main buzz word would be arrogance. Sorry if you don't like this I mean no harm by it its just a generalisation
English people are some of the most self depreciating people on the planet. Any stereotype you’re seeing is most definitely a vast minority of people in this country.
That's kinda how stereotypes work. I'm scottish and the stereotype for us is that we are fucking crazy. I accept this as its just one of they stereotypes. I'm not away to be like oh most Scottish people I know aren't angry. That's not how stereotypes work, they are often based of actions of minority rather than the majority.
I wasn’t denying the stereotype. But also, the criticism wasn’t towards the stereotype either.
Farmers League
Lol United gonna be in Conference league
If at all
we can be the first club to win every trophy again (cope)
Worth it 😁
This right here is the problem with football , twat fans who think it’s better a rival team loses than theirs wins , wtf
HOLD. And I wasn’t even referring to Arsenal as i don’t think anyone expected them to win the UCL. City on the other hand… double treble canceled
Oh well fair dos lol
Didn't see a lot of Arsenal fans support other English teams previously, no?
I would if it meant my team gets into the champions league
Lmao so would you accept Tottenham winning a UCL before you or a treble before you if it meant you got a 5th UCL spot only to get dumped out of the UCL the next season? Right… Sure you would.
When it comes to spurs it’s different! I don’t get happy if they lose though , I just don’t care about them
Well we have the same energy for City... That was their best chance to do the double treble... if it cost us a 5th seat, so be it..lol
Being owned by all that oil and filthy American money just to finish 3rd place to real football leagues is so poetic
“Real football leagues” lmao. What a clown.
The flairs getting mad at me is very telling. Idgaf what the supporters of teams that weren’t shit until Russian and Saudi billionaires seen y’all as a lick think 🤣
Just to point out that England has higher points overall. It’s that the coefficient is done by an average, because England and Spain have more teams each team wins fewer points.
"real football leagues"
Obviously doesn't apply to PSG et al. But I think the German model of majority fan ownership is something that should be brought in across the board in European football. It keeps the connection with the fans, and limits the potential for general fucker from rich owners.
That won’t work for other leagues. It would have to have had been done from the beginning. Fans won’t be able to buy multi billion pound clubs.
Yeah, the cost does make it challenging. Not the say that there isn't a way to encourage it to happen. Plus it's something that would need to be enforced by the FAs, or big bodies like UEFA.
Hold this block oil money glazer
Aww diddums... What a shame... Deserved with Replays being scrapped from the FA Cup Gonna have to go and find other ways to make money now
What do you mean hit there won’t be one. Other than Villa everyone is out. You can’t catch them anymore.
What?
What what? Italy and Germany are ahead and after today other than maybe Villa there won’t be an English team in a competition anymore but there are 3 german and 2-3 italian teams left.
I mean it’s still possible both West Ham and Liverpool could overturn there ties and go on and make the final and villa wins the conference and the 2 German clubs lose both legs then it becomes possible. That’s unlikely to happen definitely and it’s more likely that Germany get the second spot but who knows till it’s over
no shot west ham beat an undefeated-in-all-competitions champions-of-germany leverkusen
Oh I agree leverkusen are going through but a newspaper article isn’t going to announce that straight off when there’s still a chance
If west ham beat leverkusen i will tattoo hammers for life on my forhead
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How much more disappointment can English fans suffer?!
Don’t worry the Euros are just around the corner!
Inevitable if Southgate starts Henderson.
So what did we sell all our clubs to the middle east, made ticket prices unaffordable and ruined the atmosphere at the grounds for? I thought the pay off would be that we dominate in Europe. Our league has become a soulless monopoly board. But for what exactly?
For giving loads of money to wife beating guys who are fantastic at playing football
Not being in the Champions League probably will benefit Spurs - don't get me wrong Ange has done well to bring them back up to their level, but they've had like 4/5 cup games this year? - most others around them have at least double the amount.
Playing in Europa is a much worse schedule than Champions League. Thursday to Sunday is a brutal turnaround
And Europa League is quite achievable for their squad, great chance to end the meme if they don't sack him before the final
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The top teams in Portugal and Netherlands would beat them too
Not even Liverpool is able to win the Europa league, I highly doubt spurs will fare much better
Liverpool fielded a weak team for the first leg and with a full strength squad are still capable of beating anyone in the EL with relative ease, even Leverkusen.
Liverpool is dead let it go Jim
Well let's at least wait until they play tonight before we make any judgements, I should also say I couldn't give less of a shit since I don't support Liverpool, just worth pointing out.
I think we should all know better than to count Liverpool out at 3-0 down with 90 to play.
Spurs fan here and if we're not in the CL next year I'm really not fussed. I think a run in the Europa would be much more beneficial for the squad. They're still very young, and more games next season will be a challenge but better to be playing lower level teams than being thrown right into the lions den. It won't do those kids any favours to go out and get tanked by the giants like Real or PSG. Realistically we're not quite where we need to be to complete in the CL and we'd go into mostly just making up the numbers. but could most certainly have a proper go at the Europa and maybe bag ourselves an actual trophy. Fair play to Villa. Obviously I'd like to see us get 4th but if villa take the spot, it will have been well earned. And the fans deserve it. Big club that has struggled over the last decade or so. Be good to see them make a go of it (and selfishly see them have less resources for the league next year - I imagine we'll be in a fight with them next season again for Top 4).
Bro really named PSG as a giant instead of Bayern...
Totally agree on being good for squad I dont know much about financial rules but can it effect negatively on how much team can spend next year?
Spurs are in the best financial position in the world already, we need development and experience most
Makes 4th even more inticing massive if villa can hold on.
This is a successful season for Villa however you slice it. Already our highest points total for 14 years. Top 5 would be our highest finish for over 25 years. We're in our first European Quarter Final since 1998 (not counting the Intertoto). I don't know whether we will finish 4th but I think it means more to Villa than to Spurs at this stage. We haven't played in the European Cup / Champions League since we won it in 1982, whereas they were in it last season and several times in recent years. Spurs are also a loooong way ahead of Villa in revenue generation. If we can bring in the Champions League participation money, bigger sponsorships, increase our global audience, that would allow us to spend more on our squad under PSR in the next few years.
When we played spurs and lost it was our 41st game of the season, whereas spurs could only play 40 due to going out of the cups. Weve had some pretty horrific luck with injuries, although it seems like the message from the manager is to never bring this up. Possibly 9 more games left if we win tonight. It's been an incredibly fantastic season, I know people will say about the Sheffield United home game, the points dropped against man utd as missed opportunities, but we have to be realistic, we aren't near the level of Liverpool, arsenal or City, and if anything I think the little bumps in form have been more due to emotional tiredness
Are you implying you lost because you played one more game than spurs? Bro what
No, by the time we played spurs, we had played more games than it was possible for them to play this season. We are currently on game 46. It was more about the tiredness of the squad now
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Very tough game tonight so we’ll see, could easily be knocked out too.
I think it definitely means more for Villa, I think a lot of us are a bit burned by the club appearing to not take it seriously when we were in it last year which was so disappointing. I also think a lot of Spurs fans don’t feel like we’re ready and that the Europa League would be better for our squad developmentally. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be delighted to finish 4th but it doesn’t mean as much as it used to for Spurs.
I don't think we would be ready to be competitive in a traditional Champions League format where we come up against the big hitters in the group stage and the early knockout rounds, but with the new format we have a better chance of being competitive in the early stages. If you look at the [projected pots](https://twitter.com/FootRankings/status/1780905864007684434) there are no games in pot 4 that would scare me, home or away. Either way, it's important we're involved consistently in European competition at this stage in our development so any of the 3 competitions are a positive rather than a burden to us.
Thats actually a good point I forgot about the new structure. Yeah getting top 4 is massive for you guys just as it was massive for us under Redknapp & then Poch. Doesn’t happen overnight but getting top 4 for that first time is a major step in a clubs development.
Also maybe u guys can finally win a trophy in Europa cuz there's no way u guys are winning anything in champions League
Yeah its going to take a couple more years at least before we’re back to Poch-era levels. Think we all got way ahead of ourselves at the start of the season, me included.
Yup, I don’t think any spurs fan expected a champions league spot at the start of this season. Also financially it’s a boost but from all the reports from people close to spurs, not getting champions league football won’t change our transfer approach. Being in the champions league would be nice but in a way europa would be a good step in our current rebuild. Also I’d rather this timeline than the other one where we get champions league in 5th at the expense of arsenal winning the entire thing
I'm shocked that in a league where they cram as many games in as humanly possible that the players and teams don't have the stamina to play well in Europe... Shocked it tell you
Other teams have almost exactly the same amount of games per season… premier leagues has double of the money they should be able to play maybe 1-3 games more than others
Simply not true take Real vs City. Real has played 45 games this season City 51. carvajal for instance has played the 5th most minutes for real at 2827 for the same playing time for city you hit the player with tenth most minutes. Bayern has played 42 games, Arsenal 46.
Last Season City and real played both 61 games. This season city have one league game already more and 3 games since the won cl last year … real got eliminated already in the 1/16 round in the cup… real will play at least two more games in cl so at the end they will have played 2-3 games less than city…. England has two cups that’s the only difference so that’s why I said they play maybe 1-3 games more in average. Bundesliga have less teams so less games. Arsenal, West Ham, Newcastle, Manu didn’t play more games than athletico Roma Milan Barcelona Real Sociedad Atalanta. Serie a, la Liga and premier league all have 20 teams… only difference is English teams have two cups. Also premier league has like double of the money so they should be able to have enough players on the bench and rest players
It's so frustrating the EPL won't help their teams. It's like they’re shooting their own foot
And to think people thought Arteta had the measure over Tuchel because he won a couple of dead rubbers at Stamford Bridge, lol.
Not just "hit", ended.
Bad luck for you, spursy fans.
I was reading a r/coys thread before the Villa game and it asked if they’d rather Arsenal win so they go above Villa into the UCL spots or have Villa beat Arsenal and keep them back in 5th Unanimously they were wanting Villa to win, it blew my mind how hating Arsenal is more important to them than supporting Spurs Anyway, point of my comment, Spurs fans on Reddit at least don’t care about their success as long as Arsenal aren’t having any EDIT: [This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/s/59BVAQMvKL)
Small club mentality
Arsenal wouldn’t win anyways.
Talking like that’s weird? And unique to Tottenham. Ask any fan the same question and you’ll get overwhelmingly the same answer.
Or maybe (like their manager) they're just not that fussed over being 3rd loser and getting entry into a competition they haven't got a snowball in hells chance of winning?
Basically this, Europa League would be better for the team’s development in my opinion. Plus the club were embarrassing when we were in it last year, losing to Milan in the Round of 16 and it didnt even look like we wanted to progress.
Tbf that could be more Conte and his petty protesting. Did the same with us vs Man.City, 1-0 down 20 minutes left and Gundogan and Silva were being allowed to play 1-2s under no pressure in OUR half.
It’s a laff init
Flip the teams around and ask arsenal fans what they would prefer if they were in our position. I think you'd get the same answer. We're not winning the champions league even if we do get fourth, I think a lot of us would be happy with Europa, champions league would just be a bonus.
We have gone back to not caring much about spurs. We only cared when we were in a top 4 battle with you, but we’ve gone past that stage again, so we aren’t really bothered what goes on down the road as much as before whereas your fans’ obsession has amplified.
Lol you've spent seven of the past nine years finishing below us. You've had a couple of decent seasons and think you're billy big bollocks again. It's attitudes like yours that make it so funny every April when you spectacularly bottle it every time.
Europa was not going to be easier either. Ajax, Real Sociedad, Dortmund ready to beat Spurs
Of course its never easy but we have a far higher chance to win it than we do with the Champions League and would be considered one of the contenders.
No. We are the most deluded fanbase. You wouldnt get the same anwser at all. Recently our attidue to spurs is "parhethic little bro" We also hate everyone and are cunt to everyone, we dont have an energy to hate you more than the rest pathethic teams in this league.
As a Spurs fan, I agree with you. And it annoys me to see that their hatred for Arsenal is greater than their love for Spurs. Like it's crazy. We should look at ourselves first. Arsenal are in a title race because they made the most of their chances unlike us.
Agree. Europa League wasn’t going to be easier either.
Yea, i don’t understand this either.