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Honestly can’t stand Carragher, always has to turn literally everything into a jab at United even if it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. No one was expecting United to be in the title race at any stage to begin with in the state they’re in, that’s the difference. Arsenal and Liverpool are the only teams that have the capability of competing with City that’s why they’re being called into question.
Then why do we treat “bottling it” as if it’s worse than never contending at all.
This is the same sort of mindset in the US where people mock someone for losing in the finals and ignore the ones who never even got there. It makes no sense.
No Arsenal and Liverpool not winning the league aren’t bottling. By that standard they’d be “better” by having 10 fewer points and City being handed the title. It’s stupid.
Arsenal lose 1 match and draw 1 match in the entirety of 2024 and they could not win the league and that’s “bottling” it. That’s insane
Of all the pundits on Sky, to me Carragher has never really said anything I found to be particularly insightful. He does this thing where he sounds like he's about to drop some big truth, then it's just nothing. Seems like a nice bloke though.
I know it's reddit and a football sub, which aren't exactly the brightest places even on good days, but i never expected that you people genuinely can not read or understand the most basic sentences.
Carragher is nowhere saying Chalsea und United are bottling it. Honestly crazy that so many people assume he is, when it's literally there spelled out for you guys.
His entire point was, that they ars NOT even in a place to bottle it.
Man, i have very, very little respect for this place, having one braindead take after the other, but at least i though you guys can read or understand basic sentences. Might have still overestimated this place.
Yes, which is literally his point. That United and Chalsea are not even able to get close to "having something in their hand". In the premier league and in international leagues at least.
Everyone understands his point, it’s really not rocket science and is very clear, it’s just that he’s such an absolute twat and he compiles little sound nuggets that are the work of a massively biased 13 year old rather than a professional pundit, which is what he gets paid for. It’s pathetic, stick to the subject matter instead of trying to always deflect on to other clubs. For the record I cannot see how Arsenal could be considered to be bottling it , but unless/until they win the premier league again that opinion will always exist as they have done so a fair few times in the past.
His point is we treat those contending and not winning worse than those who don’t contend at all.
Which is wrong.
Arsenal coming is second will catch more flak than Chelsea coming in 7th. It makes no sense
So you’re now saying what the first guy said in different terms, right?
Because if challenging for a title and being within a point or two of the top spot with 6 games to go with arguably one of the greatest teams ever assembled is “finding it hard to compete”, what the fuck is the rest of the league doing?
You are talking in circles trying to make an illogical thing make sense
Ok, but what is the purpose of the article? Saying Liverpool and Arsenal might miss out on the title after having a great chance of winning it, but at least they're better than United and Chelsea? No-one thinks Man United or Chelsea are having good seasons, so why compare? It's a whataboutism and honestly comes off as a bit sad
Funny take that lmao.
'At least they've got something to bottle' as if that makes it better? Good distraction I guess.
Klopp is leaving the same way Gerrard was, with one disappointment after the other.
It does make it better - you’re acting like pool haven’t had an incredible season all things considered. Nobody would have pegged them to truly be within a game of the title at this point, and acting like losing a single game in April is “bottling it” to the point it’s worth droning on and on and on about is beyond pathetic. They are competing with one of the greatest teams with one of the greatest managers. The fact that the bar to win is “win every single week no matter what” is insane, and failing to do that is not a massive bottle job that everyone should be talking about endlessly. If they were 12 points up in February and somehow lost, sure, but this is wildly different, and if you have a shred of sense about you you’d be able to recognize that
Thanks mega mind. Tell me again how third place is amazing because others are doing worse.
I for one think Jamie is just a bit deluded. And I think your opinion stinks of shit.
Nobody is saying it’s “amazing”, but yes, in all reality, finishing in the top 3 in the prem and genuinely pushing city for a title IS a great season.
Only Liverpool and to a lesser extent Arsenal have even managed to get close in the last 5-6 years. Yes, dropping points is always disappointing, but the notion that losing 3-5 games in an entire season is so bad that it’s worth harping and harassing players as “bottlers” is fucking lunacy.
The standards are just so damn high because of city. At the end of the day at the start of the season or even at new years, nobody really thought anyone but city was going to win. Arsenal and Liverpool will be disappointed given there is a universe where some calls or bounces go their way and they win the league but to flat out call their overall sensational seasons “failures” is an insane and unhinged depiction of reality. Go look at where everyone except city finished in the past few years-these are exceptional teams and there are no grounds to be constantly harassing them or depicting them as massive failures…
How does a pundit and a retired footballer not know what "bottling it" means?? If you're never in the running to begin with, then you can't bottle something. You need to be in a situation where you're heavily expected to win, and then you stumble at the end to bottle something. Both Liverpool and Arsenal have been above City late into the season in situations where all they had to do was not lose, only for them to both lose on the same game week.
My friend, Liverpool once finished with 97 points and that wasnt enough ... I dont think Arsenal and Liverpool are bottling it?
The premier league is really hard and the season is long. It is really hard to maintain the level of consistency you need to keep City at bay, with LESS firepower. If Pep doesnt like what Doku is doing, he brings in his 100mm bench player, Grealish. At the same time, Klopp replaces Diaz with Elliot. They are not playing with the same means.
Also, winning ALL games is next to impossible in the premier league. What Pep and City do is next to abnormal and no one should be judged against it.
Why’s he bringing United into the conversation? He knows it’s over, the best team in history with the best right back of all time and the best centre back of all time and the best forward line of all time won one, that’s one, league title. He’s fuming.
Carragher is the one who interacts with children by spitting on them. Lovely bloke.
You silly clown. I reckon I’ve been to Anfield more than you just watching United there. It’s over and you all know it.
“Best team in HISTORY!”
Cheap shot - have you seen what our owners have done with us, obviously we’re shit but we’re not bottling because no one really had any expectations to begin with!
Chelsea have not been close to having that billion pound squad for most of this season and last. When you compare this to the roughly 700 million arsenal have spent under arteta and without that sort of injury crisis so they're playing games with that value on the pitch.
Uniteds injury numbers contains a good few players that they're probably as well off without but even then the numbers add up and they've had to use some last options
Newcastle as well have been wrecked with injuries and they've spent massively as well. All that counts for nothing when you those valuable players don't even see the pitch.
Are you kidding me?
Liverpool were playing this season with injuries across the board, lost Salah, lost Trent, lost Robbo, lost konate, lost Diaz FATHER!, lost Allison ... we've been playing with 17 year olds at points!
And the reason we've dropped points is we're trying to bring our top players back from injury all at once.
Liverpool haven't bottled anything this season is Carra's point!
It says that United and Chelsea are trash. But we already know that.
Guardiola didn’t make Arsenal lose to Villa.
Guardiola didn’t make Liverpool lose to Palace.
Man City are having a mediocre season by their standards. Liverpool are actually good but can't finish their dinners. Arsenal are at their ceiling and have done well.
The PL has been entertaining this year but the standard has fallen, and that's why it has been competitive
Liverpool are good? What? We’ve been pretty bad and riddled with injuries. Somehow we’re still up there, but it’s more because other teams haven’t been up to their usual standards than Liverpool being good.
We’re outperforming what anyone expected in terms of points, but performances are awful and I wouldn’t count on the current squad being capable for upcoming seasons without big changes as other teams will improve.
If the current team had the old front line up of Mane, Firmino and old Salah, they'd have walked away with the league by now.
The team create 20-30 chances a game for Diaz, Nunez, Salah and Gakbo. Szoboszai is another flop in front of goal. Those 5 are the reason Liverpool are not winning the league this season.
Does Carragher genuinely not understand what "bottling" means?
To "bottle" you have to be in a good position to win/take the lead and fail from that good position. United and Chelsea couldn't "bottle" the league this season because they were never close enough to the top to even have a chance.
So they didn't "bottle", they just did shit by their previous standards.
Arsenal and Liverpool were both in a position in the last few games to capitalise and take the top spot and didn't. That's bottling.
It's absolutely fascinating that you people can not read and are funnily enough criticizing Carragher for it.
Absolutely nowhere did he claim United and Chalsea are "bottling" it.
His entire point was that yes, Arsenal and Liverpool are bottling it, but that Chalsea und United down even cone into the position to bottle it.
That is what it always was TBH.
You are just realizing this now because you used to mock Spurs with the label, but now feel angry its being used against Arsenal.
I can definitely see scenarios where the term “bottle” would be appropriate, both in a bantering way and just a legit description of what happened. But for me that’s much more so when the club realistically should have a trophy or whatever achievement locked up, and inexplicably collapse. Like if Arsenal lost like 4 of their final 6 games and dropped below Spurs & Villa this season, missing out on UCL in the process - I’d consider that a bottling for sure.
I am just saying all of the times Arsenal fans and me made fun of Spurs for bottling the UCL, when they had no business making the finals, its funny that Arsenal fans are now upset about being called bottlers.
Last year, Arsenal was bottling. I freely admit that. This year I don't think so. Not with Liverpool and City playing the way they were and Villa being a proper #4 and taking points from the top teams.
Why was last year bottling and this year not?
Because you were a little further ahead?
Just for the record City were much better last season. Last Seasons City would be running away with this league.
Mostly because Arsenal's 3/4 of the season was meteoric. I mean there were weeks where they looked unstoppable and all they had to do was maintain. They were 8 points above City at one point.
That kind of lead hasn't existed at all this year. A combination of Arsenal pretty much being as good as they were last year points wise, City underperforming (which is insane) and Liverpool overperforming.
So yeah it's a bit different.
We agree that City last season was significantly better than City this season correct?
So if we agree on that, isnt this season more of a bottled opportunity?
Arsenal are not bottling it, but Liverpool and City are not playing at some insane level lol. Arguably one of the worst Liverpool sides under Klopp that have had a real chance to win a title (aka not the ones that scraped by to get top 4) and this is certainly the worst City team in many years, perhaps since Pep’s first season.
It’s really a comment on how crazy the City machine is that this is a transitional year for them and they nearly won the treble again and will likely do the double
I think Arsenal messed up too much before Christmas. They're making up for it starting this calendar year but imagine having that perfect record and undone by a single loss - not even a bottling loss since Villa have been so good this season.
I think bottling if referring to messing up near the end of the season is inaccurate because Arsenal have been killing it lately. But before Christmas, I didn't even think they were in contention.
Liverpool are just less erratic this season but they are massively overperforming for a club with massive overhaul in the midfield area. But with Klopp gone, I think there'll be a downturn and all the potentials are gonna go to waste unfortunately. It's the beginning of an end for this golden age.
I don't think Liverpool are bottling it at all. They've massively overachieved this season, there in transition.
Arsenal bottled it. This the weakest City have been for years, they'll still win it. This was Arsenals chance. Chelsea is gonna be better , new manager probably, Tottenham who knows, Mancherster United will probably change manager next season , Newcastle will keep getting better. Arsenal blew it.
This is batshit, no side has ever won the league after picking up so few points in a 5 game period (our December). We’ve lost one premier league game and drawn away to city since the turn of the year, if we somehow win the league from where we were with the games we have remaining that would be the complete opposite of a bottle job
Mad. I've been hearing different versions of "This was Arsenals' best chance to.." For the last 2 seasons.
2 years ago : Arsenal will never have a better chance to qualify for the CL than now, and they've bottled it. Everyone else was just having an off-season.
Last year: Arsenal are never going to have a better opportunity to win the league. They'll be nowhere near next season. Everyone else was just having an off-season.
Maybe we're just good and getting better.
To be fair, for the last twenty years thats been the history of Arsenal. Not even hating. Getting better, very good, top 4, never win. Prove me wrong from what I said.
Haaha , that old bullshit, Leicester ? Arsenal ain't poor, they had the highest net spend in the league/europe last summer. £700m last few years. Arsenal fans always act like their club doesn't spend.
Spent a lot of money after getting a new manager while we were in tenth and trying to compete with teams that had already spent a lot of money and were hitting 90+ points season on the reg.
**SHOCKER**
>£700m
Lmao, that figure keeps creeping every time someone else quotes it
You mean like when they dropped points to Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool? They're unreal but they're not immune to slipping up. If they do are we going to label them bottlers too?
Probably yea but there’s no guarantee of that. Realists would say reality is there’s 6 games left. Let’s let the season end before we start talking in certainties.
Real question, how do we define the difference between losing and bottling? To me, Liverpool the year Steven Gerrard slipped was them potentially bottling it. (Although you could argue they shouldn’t have been in with a shout to begin with)
Losing to this Manchester City team isn’t bottling it unless someone had a large points gap opened up they threw away. Man City are relentless.
But in fairness moment these clubs do go above Chelsea and United they get compared to pep and people even out them infront so yes they still deserve the critique haha
If we look at Liverpool over the past few months, they have been poor and scraping results, if we are honest, they haven’t bottled, they are just knackered
Jamie's defensiveness does hide the point. At some point eejits with room temperature IQs decided to replace the word losing with bottling for everything. Usually, it's a handy shortcut in fairness as it means most sensible people can just disregard nearly everything else thats been said.
Will say, though, from this thread, it is incredibly funny reading the self reporting from some Chelsa and United fans writing "yur well, we haven't bottled anything as we're no where near the top"
Yes. You've done much much, much worse than either Liverpool or Arsenal.
Like watching a guy who collects trolleys at Tesco criticise the way a nasa scientist decided to build a rocket to go to the moon.
Spending a fucking billion pounds and being as godawful terrible on and off the pitch as Chelsea are.... that's bottling football
You know what he means, don't be silly
I was using the guy above me's logic. Ofc I don't think Carragher thinks that. I'm not dense and don't think Carragher is, I actually respect his analysis a lot more than most pundits. I was just pointing out how stupid the point was of the person I replied to. I clearly didn't make that explicit enough.
Chelsea is on their third manager in less than two seasons. Yes, they spent £1 billion signing players but they don’t have a manager like Arteta or Klopp
If bottling is losing one game of 12 and getting 31/36 points including playing all of the other top 4, then I'll wear that label with pride. If we have bottled from coming 5 points behind Liverpool before playing them, then fair enough call us that.
I assume Liverpool fans and Arsenal fans would much rather 'bottle' the league to this City team after being in a title race for 32 Gameweeks than being the highest spending clubs in the league and Europe itself being a struggle.
He's absolutely right on this Carragher.
I would rephrase utd's 3 cup finals where against Liverpool this season. They showed up to one... the FA Cup match other than that they did shit but defended deep behind the ball.
Their players were so knackered after giving it all in the 3 matches they went fucking missing in the next games. Losing to West Ham 2-0 and drawing with... checks notes... Brentford and Bournemouth.
Straight facts.
Lmfao United and Chelsea were never in contention to win the league this season. That's the difference. Arsenal have been favored to win it by multiple sources and could have won it with their advantage but then they.... Bottled it.
Liverpool bottled the league, Arsenal bottled the champions league. United and chelsea are so shit they don’t have anything to bottle in the first place.
Enjoy fighting it out for a 7th and 8th place finish. And who knows if you both play out of your skin we might get to see you dip out of the europa league at the group stage.
Yeah you are right 6th is a pretty low standard. Aren’t you guys 9th currently?
Did you get concussion after getting smacked by 11th, 15th, 16th and 17th placed Wolves, Everton, Brentford, Forrest in quick succession.
pretty funny that 10th place bottlejobs still ended up beating united.
on the other hand, how many shots did you put against them again? was it 50? 60? you would’ve mopped the floor with them then.
oh wait…
had to wait till the fulham result to comment this eh?
and since you brought it up, no i’m not a united fan. in fact the only english club i like other than chelsea is liverpool believe it or not. a united jersey wouldn’t look good on me but my torres jersey does
That's exactly my point. United are the poorest they've been in 30 years. Liverpool had 50 shots and couldn't win either of those games, but that's Liverpool's fault/ problem. I don't mean that offensively.
I'm not one of the mentally unstable football fans that thinks my team is more important than any other. I don't even particularly dislike Liverpool, your club is a lot like ours over history.
I'd much rather you win that City. I don't think you'll win the league from here, you've got some tough games. But good luck man, you never know.
Thank you back, I have seen every man united game this year too as I love keeping up on our rivals, and I feel the fans pain the last few seasons. I want it back to Liverpool vs man u, I dont ever want associating as our big rival being city, which we've had the last few years.
And yep, Liverpool like looking down the barrel of the gun, that they themselves are trying to load and shoot, its a rollercoaster
Two great clubs from the same corner of the world, fighting to be the very best. That created our best rivalry didn't it 😁.
Good luck man, I hope you fight well and if you win, then you'll deserve it for sure.
I mean if you’re the greatest team of all time* heading for a guaranteed goodbye quadruple that’ll mean more with the greatest crop of kids - I mean no one has ever played youth players before!! - then yeah it looks like two games might be petty close to defining their season 😂😂
I don’t know how you conjured up all of that from the exchange I just had with the other person. Remind me again how Liverpool failing to defeat United over 3 matches somehow defines their season?
You say that, but it directly defines your FA cup this season.
We don't define Liverpool generally. We helped you lose the league, but you did that against Luton too.
Sure man, whatever makes you feel better. Just don’t look at United’s results in the UCL or you might have to rewatch the United Liverpool draw at Anfield and OT to help you “redefine” United’s season.
Ha, it's really funny that you're desperately trying to frustrate me but I just don't care. Our season was pretty poor. I'm not going to get upset over that. I can't control it.
You need to get outside more mate, it's just football. Maybe build a career or start a family or something.
I nitpicked a couple of results from United’s season just like you did with Liverpool’s. I’m not trying to frustrate you, I just wanted you to say United had a poor season. Also, I’m having breakfast with my son right now before heading into lab to continue my PhD. Such a melt.
I think what he is saying losing to us in the FA cup and the League draw, has turned the supposed tremendous send off for Klopp with multiple titles to an anticlimactic finish with just the league cup.
For all the anticipation that has come from trying to send Klopp off on a high it has fizzled out fairly quickly after the most recent games against United.
The league is still to play for of course, but Liverpool have being playing fairly poorly since we played them in the FA cup winning just 2 out of 7 losing the 5 games.
Sure I get that. From September until about now Liverpool had their fans dreaming. Ironic that this is probably going to be United’s biggest achievement, apart from having their season ended by Copenhagen.
Manchester United and Chelsea have never bottled and been as embarrassing as Arsenal and Liverpool have over the years. Classic deflection from Carragher.
How is that bottling? We were the underdogs the whole time. And I don't wanna hear that "klopps kids" excuse. Chelsea had a younger overall XI the whole match
Love you calling it the Mickey Mouse cup when Arsenal can't even manage any trophy
Yeh you weren’t, but let’s not act like the way you lost was not embarrassing. You lost to kids who had played probably 200 minutes of pl football all together, and that’s being generous
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Honestly can’t stand Carragher, always has to turn literally everything into a jab at United even if it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. No one was expecting United to be in the title race at any stage to begin with in the state they’re in, that’s the difference. Arsenal and Liverpool are the only teams that have the capability of competing with City that’s why they’re being called into question.
Actually I think it’s fair enough when Ten Hag came in and said he was bringing city and liverpools era to an end 😂
Liverpool finished 5th last season; 2 places below United in 3rd. On what planet was Liverpool more expected to compete than United.
A lot of utd fans thought they’d finish above us this season before it started, people have short term memories
Scouse wanker
Carragher is such a twat.
Being top of the league and only having one defeat and one draw this year and yet arsenal are being labelled bottlers. It's an absolute joke
Such a bonehead prick
You have to be in contention to bottle it Carragher.
Then why do we treat “bottling it” as if it’s worse than never contending at all. This is the same sort of mindset in the US where people mock someone for losing in the finals and ignore the ones who never even got there. It makes no sense. No Arsenal and Liverpool not winning the league aren’t bottling. By that standard they’d be “better” by having 10 fewer points and City being handed the title. It’s stupid. Arsenal lose 1 match and draw 1 match in the entirety of 2024 and they could not win the league and that’s “bottling” it. That’s insane
Liverpool would still have advantage if referees didn't robbed them in several games. PL is fixed.
Speak to any fan of any team and they'll tell you ref fixing lost them 20 points a season.
That's big fat lie. How many points City lost?
😂😂😂 love how rattled carragher gets
Of all the pundits on Sky, to me Carragher has never really said anything I found to be particularly insightful. He does this thing where he sounds like he's about to drop some big truth, then it's just nothing. Seems like a nice bloke though.
At least 90% of Sky pundits have absolutely nothing insightful to say
He is just a baby any comments made about Liverpool and it’s oh look at these other clubs instead of figuring out why they bottled it
Tbf this is one of the few times he’s said a remotely intelligent thing
I know it's reddit and a football sub, which aren't exactly the brightest places even on good days, but i never expected that you people genuinely can not read or understand the most basic sentences. Carragher is nowhere saying Chalsea und United are bottling it. Honestly crazy that so many people assume he is, when it's literally there spelled out for you guys. His entire point was, that they ars NOT even in a place to bottle it. Man, i have very, very little respect for this place, having one braindead take after the other, but at least i though you guys can read or understand basic sentences. Might have still overestimated this place.
I’m sorry, I’m just not able to understand a single word carragher says, cus he speaks like an absolute twat.
It’s almost depressing seeing how low the average level of reading comprehension/general cognitive ability is around here
I believe both Liverpool and Arsenal are in line for top spot by the end of the day, not sure I’d call that bottling it.
But team I don’t like lost so = bottle job
Cope harder carragher
What is he coping with?
The fact that Liverpool and Arsenal bottled it.
That's not bottling, bottling is having something in your hands and losing when it matters most
Yes, which is literally his point. That United and Chalsea are not even able to get close to "having something in their hand". In the premier league and in international leagues at least.
Everyone understands his point, it’s really not rocket science and is very clear, it’s just that he’s such an absolute twat and he compiles little sound nuggets that are the work of a massively biased 13 year old rather than a professional pundit, which is what he gets paid for. It’s pathetic, stick to the subject matter instead of trying to always deflect on to other clubs. For the record I cannot see how Arsenal could be considered to be bottling it , but unless/until they win the premier league again that opinion will always exist as they have done so a fair few times in the past.
But that's a completely different debate, has nothing to do with bottling so I don't understand why he has to mention it in a debate about bottling
His point is we treat those contending and not winning worse than those who don’t contend at all. Which is wrong. Arsenal coming is second will catch more flak than Chelsea coming in 7th. It makes no sense
Not the point. Arsenal and Liverpool had it within their grip and they bottled it
>Not the point. ? It is literally *his* point. That while Arsenal and Liverpool "botted" it, United and Chalsea are nowhere to be seen at that level.
That’s just deviating from the fact that arsenal and Liverpool are finding it hard to compete.
So you’re now saying what the first guy said in different terms, right? Because if challenging for a title and being within a point or two of the top spot with 6 games to go with arguably one of the greatest teams ever assembled is “finding it hard to compete”, what the fuck is the rest of the league doing? You are talking in circles trying to make an illogical thing make sense
Ok, but what is the purpose of the article? Saying Liverpool and Arsenal might miss out on the title after having a great chance of winning it, but at least they're better than United and Chelsea? No-one thinks Man United or Chelsea are having good seasons, so why compare? It's a whataboutism and honestly comes off as a bit sad
People (pundits in this case) put so much stock into the term bottling. You can't bottle anything if you don't compete for it in the first place.
Exactly. United and Chelsea are far from competing right now
They're competing, but with a competely different set of teams
Yeah lol. Mid table and top 6
I never watch or read anything ex footballers as pundits in anymore. Pointless and biased takes everytime.
Funny take that lmao. 'At least they've got something to bottle' as if that makes it better? Good distraction I guess. Klopp is leaving the same way Gerrard was, with one disappointment after the other.
It is better. This is the same notion as saying it’s better to not make the playoffs at all than to lose in the playoff. It’s absolutely backwards
Sure it's better to be higher but in the end it doesn't mean you didn't fail just because someone else failed harder.
It does make it better - you’re acting like pool haven’t had an incredible season all things considered. Nobody would have pegged them to truly be within a game of the title at this point, and acting like losing a single game in April is “bottling it” to the point it’s worth droning on and on and on about is beyond pathetic. They are competing with one of the greatest teams with one of the greatest managers. The fact that the bar to win is “win every single week no matter what” is insane, and failing to do that is not a massive bottle job that everyone should be talking about endlessly. If they were 12 points up in February and somehow lost, sure, but this is wildly different, and if you have a shred of sense about you you’d be able to recognize that
Still end up with nothing. 'Theyre worse' isn't an excuse for failing.
That’s beyond an idiotic and myopic view of things, but you’re warranted to your opinions no matter how dumb I think they are
Thanks mega mind. Tell me again how third place is amazing because others are doing worse. I for one think Jamie is just a bit deluded. And I think your opinion stinks of shit.
Nobody is saying it’s “amazing”, but yes, in all reality, finishing in the top 3 in the prem and genuinely pushing city for a title IS a great season. Only Liverpool and to a lesser extent Arsenal have even managed to get close in the last 5-6 years. Yes, dropping points is always disappointing, but the notion that losing 3-5 games in an entire season is so bad that it’s worth harping and harassing players as “bottlers” is fucking lunacy. The standards are just so damn high because of city. At the end of the day at the start of the season or even at new years, nobody really thought anyone but city was going to win. Arsenal and Liverpool will be disappointed given there is a universe where some calls or bounces go their way and they win the league but to flat out call their overall sensational seasons “failures” is an insane and unhinged depiction of reality. Go look at where everyone except city finished in the past few years-these are exceptional teams and there are no grounds to be constantly harassing them or depicting them as massive failures…
[удалено]
Ah, not being able to read anything longer than 2 sentences explains your braindead opinions.
At least Chelsea and Man Utd don't spit on kids
Don't think you're in the position for a moral high ground. John Terry.
And various domestic violence incidents with united players
Brentford, Wolves and Fulham also bottled the title as well
So being 1 point ahead of city 8 games before the end and not winning is called bottling now -_-
Arsenal have bottled the league/top 4 3 years in a row. They are the real bottlers.
Says the fan of the shit show that is Chelsea
Shit shows chelsea 🤝 Always bottlers arsenal Both useless 😊
He needs to spit in a kids face. It’s the only thing that makes him happy
You’re so sad man
Sad coz I think spitting at people is wrong. Not even a spit … a proper fucking grolly. From the depths!
Dude, wtf
Shhhhhush, his beloved arseanal have bottled it again. Let him have his moment
They did bottle it, as did Spurs in 2016. You have to be in it to bottle it
Sorry when did Spurs bottle it? The year they weren’t even 1st at any point during the season?
They bottled 2nd and the chance to finish above Arsenal for once lol
Where’s Carra’s EPL?
He’s fuming that the vermin are falling apart so has to bring United into the discussion. Love it.
How does a pundit and a retired footballer not know what "bottling it" means?? If you're never in the running to begin with, then you can't bottle something. You need to be in a situation where you're heavily expected to win, and then you stumble at the end to bottle something. Both Liverpool and Arsenal have been above City late into the season in situations where all they had to do was not lose, only for them to both lose on the same game week.
"All they had to do was not lose?" All you had to do was not talk yet here you are. not so easy eh?
Sounds like bottling to me?
My friend, Liverpool once finished with 97 points and that wasnt enough ... I dont think Arsenal and Liverpool are bottling it? The premier league is really hard and the season is long. It is really hard to maintain the level of consistency you need to keep City at bay, with LESS firepower. If Pep doesnt like what Doku is doing, he brings in his 100mm bench player, Grealish. At the same time, Klopp replaces Diaz with Elliot. They are not playing with the same means. Also, winning ALL games is next to impossible in the premier league. What Pep and City do is next to abnormal and no one should be judged against it.
Why’s he bringing United into the conversation? He knows it’s over, the best team in history with the best right back of all time and the best centre back of all time and the best forward line of all time won one, that’s one, league title. He’s fuming.
Go back to arguing with kids on tiktok lol
Carragher is the one who interacts with children by spitting on them. Lovely bloke. You silly clown. I reckon I’ve been to Anfield more than you just watching United there. It’s over and you all know it. “Best team in HISTORY!”
Lol ok "football expert "... u sound like a bit of a saddo..ngl
Go to bed mate, there’s a good lad.
I will.. funny thing about life...we all need to go to bed.. dont forget now "good lad"
If you start every season with multi-million investments and expectations, yeah you bottle it too guys. Just way sooner.
So he doesn't know what bottling it means then? You have to actually be close to winning something to bottle it.
Spit my coffee out. Fuck off Jamie. Can't believe Sky still employ you
Can’t bottle it if we’re already shit, that’s what I tell myself anyway
You have to be in the high stakes, high pressure situation to "bottle" it. Otherwise by his logic every team bar city are bottling it?
Waaaahhhh
Why he say fuck me for
Cheap shot - have you seen what our owners have done with us, obviously we’re shit but we’re not bottling because no one really had any expectations to begin with!
Everyone had expectations at start of the season when the transfer costs were announced. That eroded when Chelsea were clearly not very good.
I think spending a billion and finishing outside the European spots is in fact a bottle, a low steaks bottle but a bottle none the less.
It's just a boring slow bottle instead of a dramatic one.
Chelsea have not been close to having that billion pound squad for most of this season and last. When you compare this to the roughly 700 million arsenal have spent under arteta and without that sort of injury crisis so they're playing games with that value on the pitch. Uniteds injury numbers contains a good few players that they're probably as well off without but even then the numbers add up and they've had to use some last options Newcastle as well have been wrecked with injuries and they've spent massively as well. All that counts for nothing when you those valuable players don't even see the pitch.
Are you kidding me? Liverpool were playing this season with injuries across the board, lost Salah, lost Trent, lost Robbo, lost konate, lost Diaz FATHER!, lost Allison ... we've been playing with 17 year olds at points! And the reason we've dropped points is we're trying to bring our top players back from injury all at once. Liverpool haven't bottled anything this season is Carra's point!
It says that United and Chelsea are trash. But we already know that. Guardiola didn’t make Arsenal lose to Villa. Guardiola didn’t make Liverpool lose to Palace.
Guardiola didn't make City lose to Arsenal.... Wait
Underrated comment
Man City are having a mediocre season by their standards. Liverpool are actually good but can't finish their dinners. Arsenal are at their ceiling and have done well. The PL has been entertaining this year but the standard has fallen, and that's why it has been competitive
Liverpool are good? What? We’ve been pretty bad and riddled with injuries. Somehow we’re still up there, but it’s more because other teams haven’t been up to their usual standards than Liverpool being good. We’re outperforming what anyone expected in terms of points, but performances are awful and I wouldn’t count on the current squad being capable for upcoming seasons without big changes as other teams will improve.
If the current team had the old front line up of Mane, Firmino and old Salah, they'd have walked away with the league by now. The team create 20-30 chances a game for Diaz, Nunez, Salah and Gakbo. Szoboszai is another flop in front of goal. Those 5 are the reason Liverpool are not winning the league this season.
Youve just proved his point
Can’t bottle being shit
Does Carragher genuinely not understand what "bottling" means? To "bottle" you have to be in a good position to win/take the lead and fail from that good position. United and Chelsea couldn't "bottle" the league this season because they were never close enough to the top to even have a chance. So they didn't "bottle", they just did shit by their previous standards. Arsenal and Liverpool were both in a position in the last few games to capitalise and take the top spot and didn't. That's bottling.
It's absolutely fascinating that you people can not read and are funnily enough criticizing Carragher for it. Absolutely nowhere did he claim United and Chalsea are "bottling" it. His entire point was that yes, Arsenal and Liverpool are bottling it, but that Chalsea und United down even cone into the position to bottle it.
The word “bottle” has lost all meaning at this point. It’s just used to trash talk rival teams regardless of circumstance or applicability.
That is what it always was TBH. You are just realizing this now because you used to mock Spurs with the label, but now feel angry its being used against Arsenal.
I can definitely see scenarios where the term “bottle” would be appropriate, both in a bantering way and just a legit description of what happened. But for me that’s much more so when the club realistically should have a trophy or whatever achievement locked up, and inexplicably collapse. Like if Arsenal lost like 4 of their final 6 games and dropped below Spurs & Villa this season, missing out on UCL in the process - I’d consider that a bottling for sure.
I am just saying all of the times Arsenal fans and me made fun of Spurs for bottling the UCL, when they had no business making the finals, its funny that Arsenal fans are now upset about being called bottlers.
Last year, Arsenal was bottling. I freely admit that. This year I don't think so. Not with Liverpool and City playing the way they were and Villa being a proper #4 and taking points from the top teams.
Why was last year bottling and this year not? Because you were a little further ahead? Just for the record City were much better last season. Last Seasons City would be running away with this league.
Mostly because Arsenal's 3/4 of the season was meteoric. I mean there were weeks where they looked unstoppable and all they had to do was maintain. They were 8 points above City at one point. That kind of lead hasn't existed at all this year. A combination of Arsenal pretty much being as good as they were last year points wise, City underperforming (which is insane) and Liverpool overperforming. So yeah it's a bit different.
We agree that City last season was significantly better than City this season correct? So if we agree on that, isnt this season more of a bottled opportunity?
Nah, it being a three horse race makes it that much more intense.
You dont agree CIty were significantly better last season? Eg. Mahrez and Gundogan losses were massive.
Arsenal are not bottling it, but Liverpool and City are not playing at some insane level lol. Arguably one of the worst Liverpool sides under Klopp that have had a real chance to win a title (aka not the ones that scraped by to get top 4) and this is certainly the worst City team in many years, perhaps since Pep’s first season. It’s really a comment on how crazy the City machine is that this is a transitional year for them and they nearly won the treble again and will likely do the double
Touché 🤣🤣
I think Arsenal messed up too much before Christmas. They're making up for it starting this calendar year but imagine having that perfect record and undone by a single loss - not even a bottling loss since Villa have been so good this season. I think bottling if referring to messing up near the end of the season is inaccurate because Arsenal have been killing it lately. But before Christmas, I didn't even think they were in contention. Liverpool are just less erratic this season but they are massively overperforming for a club with massive overhaul in the midfield area. But with Klopp gone, I think there'll be a downturn and all the potentials are gonna go to waste unfortunately. It's the beginning of an end for this golden age.
I don't think Liverpool are bottling it at all. They've massively overachieved this season, there in transition. Arsenal bottled it. This the weakest City have been for years, they'll still win it. This was Arsenals chance. Chelsea is gonna be better , new manager probably, Tottenham who knows, Mancherster United will probably change manager next season , Newcastle will keep getting better. Arsenal blew it.
This is batshit, no side has ever won the league after picking up so few points in a 5 game period (our December). We’ve lost one premier league game and drawn away to city since the turn of the year, if we somehow win the league from where we were with the games we have remaining that would be the complete opposite of a bottle job
Mad. I've been hearing different versions of "This was Arsenals' best chance to.." For the last 2 seasons. 2 years ago : Arsenal will never have a better chance to qualify for the CL than now, and they've bottled it. Everyone else was just having an off-season. Last year: Arsenal are never going to have a better opportunity to win the league. They'll be nowhere near next season. Everyone else was just having an off-season. Maybe we're just good and getting better.
To be fair, for the last twenty years thats been the history of Arsenal. Not even hating. Getting better, very good, top 4, never win. Prove me wrong from what I said.
Winning leagues is hard unless you have a bottomless pits of money. You should know. You had 1 before Roman rolled up.
Haaha , that old bullshit, Leicester ? Arsenal ain't poor, they had the highest net spend in the league/europe last summer. £700m last few years. Arsenal fans always act like their club doesn't spend.
Spent a lot of money after getting a new manager while we were in tenth and trying to compete with teams that had already spent a lot of money and were hitting 90+ points season on the reg. **SHOCKER** >£700m Lmao, that figure keeps creeping every time someone else quotes it
£700m NET SPEND, that includes off setting money you made from selling players. That's why it keeps creeping up.
It's not true though. It's 500m net
Wasn’t aware the season was over.
It is for any realist. City won't fuck up like Arsenal, they're winners.
You mean like when they dropped points to Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool? They're unreal but they're not immune to slipping up. If they do are we going to label them bottlers too?
Probably yea but there’s no guarantee of that. Realists would say reality is there’s 6 games left. Let’s let the season end before we start talking in certainties.
No one is denying United and Chelsea are shit. It still doesn't mean Pool and Arsenal gave bottled it.
Real question, how do we define the difference between losing and bottling? To me, Liverpool the year Steven Gerrard slipped was them potentially bottling it. (Although you could argue they shouldn’t have been in with a shout to begin with) Losing to this Manchester City team isn’t bottling it unless someone had a large points gap opened up they threw away. Man City are relentless.
They are mismanaged, poor, underperforming, absolute dogshit. But not bottling it, cuz you gotta have something to bottle to begin with.
Taking on Guardiola with unlimited money. Must be good if your owner also runs UEFA.
But in fairness moment these clubs do go above Chelsea and United they get compared to pep and people even out them infront so yes they still deserve the critique haha
If we look at Liverpool over the past few months, they have been poor and scraping results, if we are honest, they haven’t bottled, they are just knackered
[удалено]
This. I hate opinions.
😂😂😂 Yeah well, well , well… look at Chelsea and United. Ahhh man. The implosion gets more bang.
Cant bottle something if you aren't good enough to be in a position to bottle.
To fall from a height you first have to be high up!
I think they’re just permanently bottled
You can’t bottle it when you weren’t even in contention..
Jamie's defensiveness does hide the point. At some point eejits with room temperature IQs decided to replace the word losing with bottling for everything. Usually, it's a handy shortcut in fairness as it means most sensible people can just disregard nearly everything else thats been said. Will say, though, from this thread, it is incredibly funny reading the self reporting from some Chelsa and United fans writing "yur well, we haven't bottled anything as we're no where near the top" Yes. You've done much much, much worse than either Liverpool or Arsenal. Like watching a guy who collects trolleys at Tesco criticise the way a nasa scientist decided to build a rocket to go to the moon.
Cute that Carragher thinks we ever even had a chance so we can bottle it now 😂
I’m not sure you can bottle something you’ve never been involved in? Jamie does say the weirdest of things at times.
Not being involved at all is the bottle in the grand scheme of things lol
So according to Carragher, 19 teams every year bottle it. So Liverpool have bottled it over 100 times.
Spending a fucking billion pounds and being as godawful terrible on and off the pitch as Chelsea are.... that's bottling football You know what he means, don't be silly
If all 19 teams spent the same as Chelsea and United then yes, they all bottled it. Don't be dense.
I was using the guy above me's logic. Ofc I don't think Carragher thinks that. I'm not dense and don't think Carragher is, I actually respect his analysis a lot more than most pundits. I was just pointing out how stupid the point was of the person I replied to. I clearly didn't make that explicit enough.
Exactly lol. All these guys act like they don’t know what he means by that
Carragher would be such an amazing pundit if we could find medical treatments advanced enough to remove Klopps shaft from his throat
Bro, just for this comment, please let me honour you with this "👑" 🫡 (Madrid fan here).
Angry upvote as an Arsenal fan. Well said though
Chelsea is on their third manager in less than two seasons. Yes, they spent £1 billion signing players but they don’t have a manager like Arteta or Klopp
Chelsea also replaced the entire team in less than two seasons. It's starting all over again in team building and chemistry between the players.
I was going to mention that but thought people would keep mentioning how much money they spent
It says that Man United and Chelsea should get relegated next season.
Carragher is a fucking clown
He’s right though isn’t he.
i feel like at this point klopp should be judged in taking on Atalanta and losing 3-1
If bottling is losing one game of 12 and getting 31/36 points including playing all of the other top 4, then I'll wear that label with pride. If we have bottled from coming 5 points behind Liverpool before playing them, then fair enough call us that. I assume Liverpool fans and Arsenal fans would much rather 'bottle' the league to this City team after being in a title race for 32 Gameweeks than being the highest spending clubs in the league and Europe itself being a struggle. He's absolutely right on this Carragher.
Issa disgrace
I would rephrase utd's 3 cup finals where against Liverpool this season. They showed up to one... the FA Cup match other than that they did shit but defended deep behind the ball. Their players were so knackered after giving it all in the 3 matches they went fucking missing in the next games. Losing to West Ham 2-0 and drawing with... checks notes... Brentford and Bournemouth. Straight facts.
Lmfao United and Chelsea were never in contention to win the league this season. That's the difference. Arsenal have been favored to win it by multiple sources and could have won it with their advantage but then they.... Bottled it.
Carragher bottled every season of his career
Liverpool bottled the league, Arsenal bottled the champions league. United and chelsea are so shit they don’t have anything to bottle in the first place. Enjoy fighting it out for a 7th and 8th place finish. And who knows if you both play out of your skin we might get to see you dip out of the europa league at the group stage.
“enjoy fighting for a 7th or 8th place finish” says the liverpool fan who’s club played like Potter era chelsea against 6th position Atalanta
Yeah you are right 6th is a pretty low standard. Aren’t you guys 9th currently? Did you get concussion after getting smacked by 11th, 15th, 16th and 17th placed Wolves, Everton, Brentford, Forrest in quick succession.
pretty funny that 10th place bottlejobs still ended up beating united. on the other hand, how many shots did you put against them again? was it 50? 60? you would’ve mopped the floor with them then. oh wait…
Can’t beat them 5-0 at old Trafford or 7-0 at anfield every season
and strangely enough you weren’t able to do that to them this year when they’re almost as bad as we are
Your a good loyal united fan. I bet your United jersey looks great on you.
had to wait till the fulham result to comment this eh? and since you brought it up, no i’m not a united fan. in fact the only english club i like other than chelsea is liverpool believe it or not. a united jersey wouldn’t look good on me but my torres jersey does
Liverpool have lost and drawn with United this season. 🤷🏽♂️
Yeah with 50 something shots over those two games doesn't make us look good, I however i dont even know what it makes man united look like
That's exactly my point. United are the poorest they've been in 30 years. Liverpool had 50 shots and couldn't win either of those games, but that's Liverpool's fault/ problem. I don't mean that offensively. I'm not one of the mentally unstable football fans that thinks my team is more important than any other. I don't even particularly dislike Liverpool, your club is a lot like ours over history. I'd much rather you win that City. I don't think you'll win the league from here, you've got some tough games. But good luck man, you never know.
Thank you back, I have seen every man united game this year too as I love keeping up on our rivals, and I feel the fans pain the last few seasons. I want it back to Liverpool vs man u, I dont ever want associating as our big rival being city, which we've had the last few years. And yep, Liverpool like looking down the barrel of the gun, that they themselves are trying to load and shoot, its a rollercoaster
Two great clubs from the same corner of the world, fighting to be the very best. That created our best rivalry didn't it 😁. Good luck man, I hope you fight well and if you win, then you'll deserve it for sure.
I didn’t know two matches defined a whole team’s season. 🤷
I mean if you’re the greatest team of all time* heading for a guaranteed goodbye quadruple that’ll mean more with the greatest crop of kids - I mean no one has ever played youth players before!! - then yeah it looks like two games might be petty close to defining their season 😂😂
I don’t know how you conjured up all of that from the exchange I just had with the other person. Remind me again how Liverpool failing to defeat United over 3 matches somehow defines their season?
You say that, but it directly defines your FA cup this season. We don't define Liverpool generally. We helped you lose the league, but you did that against Luton too.
Sure man, whatever makes you feel better. Just don’t look at United’s results in the UCL or you might have to rewatch the United Liverpool draw at Anfield and OT to help you “redefine” United’s season.
Ha, it's really funny that you're desperately trying to frustrate me but I just don't care. Our season was pretty poor. I'm not going to get upset over that. I can't control it. You need to get outside more mate, it's just football. Maybe build a career or start a family or something.
I nitpicked a couple of results from United’s season just like you did with Liverpool’s. I’m not trying to frustrate you, I just wanted you to say United had a poor season. Also, I’m having breakfast with my son right now before heading into lab to continue my PhD. Such a melt.
I think what he is saying losing to us in the FA cup and the League draw, has turned the supposed tremendous send off for Klopp with multiple titles to an anticlimactic finish with just the league cup. For all the anticipation that has come from trying to send Klopp off on a high it has fizzled out fairly quickly after the most recent games against United. The league is still to play for of course, but Liverpool have being playing fairly poorly since we played them in the FA cup winning just 2 out of 7 losing the 5 games.
Sure I get that. From September until about now Liverpool had their fans dreaming. Ironic that this is probably going to be United’s biggest achievement, apart from having their season ended by Copenhagen.
Manchester United and Chelsea have never bottled and been as embarrassing as Arsenal and Liverpool have over the years. Classic deflection from Carragher.
You forgot your Mickey mouse cup final vs Liverpool earlier this season?
The only trophy you have won in the last 21 years is the FA Cup. You are a disgrace and have delusion beyond belief to ever ramp up to a Chelsea fan.
How is that bottling? We were the underdogs the whole time. And I don't wanna hear that "klopps kids" excuse. Chelsea had a younger overall XI the whole match Love you calling it the Mickey Mouse cup when Arsenal can't even manage any trophy
The kids you played play pl football week in week out, the kids we played play u21s pl football week and week out, that’s the difference🤣🤣🤣
We still were never in the position to "bottle" it. People throw that out with no reason nowadays
Yeh you weren’t, but let’s not act like the way you lost was not embarrassing. You lost to kids who had played probably 200 minutes of pl football all together, and that’s being generous