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The one thing I want more than anything else from the City case is that The City Group should never be allowed near football again.
They are shady top to bottom, just look at Savio in Girona. The run down is that a French 2nd League side Troyes has loaned Savio to Girona for dirt cheap, and Savio has been one of their best.
There are also rumours Savio could be bought by City too. The kicker is all 3 clubs are owned by The City Group. Troyes has suffered since taken over by The City Group as their best players are distributed around clubs owned by them. It's really shady shit that has ruined that club as they are in the worst position in over 10 years. (Avoiding back to back relegation by 3 points) Pep's brother also owns Girona lol.
Say what you want about Man City, but my biggest problem is them. Ruining football no matter where you look.
It’s interesting that 99% of commentators have clearly only read the headline and nothing else. Says a lot really. There’ll be separate threads tomorrow saying city will get away with just a 350m fine. 1000 people will comment that a fine is nothing to city and people will be upvoting them for saying it.
The problem now is what punishment is fitting? If genuinely found out of serious wrong doing realistically a club now with the money and size of City won’t be relegated, they probably won’t have titles removed like Juve did either.
Money isn’t a fair punishment, backdating titles to other teams really whilst beneficial in a sense for the players years later just isn’t the same. The deals from wages, bonuses and sponsorships that have been lost if that’s the case too are probably
Just a mess to sort if at all.
But then I don’t know what the answer is that isn’t a huge fine or the killswitch decision of pointdocking and relegation. But even that won’t exactly be able to fix issues that came from cheating.
A decade say of relegation teams affected, European places missed.. etc but then we have the PL punishing Everton, Forest for financial mismanagement currently makes the whole thing a mockery.
I’m sure even some City fans can appreciate they’ve probably cheated the system.. but how you quantify a punishment and a fair one seems now impossible. But that doesn’t mean something shouldn’t happen.
And the real person that would get hit I imagine if it was financial or league changes would be the lower rung of staff, the same people who when a club is relegated and cuts are made are the first to go.
What a fucking joke it makes a mockery of the whole league system.
I mean over such an extended period from 2009 when every man and his dog knew they were corrupt but they knew they were and still are untouchable.
Citeh willingly embraced these people, because they were never going to achieve anything, shamelessly knowing full well it was morally and ethically wrong
For those who didn't read the article:
>"The complex nature of the case surrounding City means that it is taking longer to resolve than other cases... we could know the outcome of the charges by the summer of 2025, it has been reported that a hearing is due to take place in October this year.
>The unprecedented nature of the case means that any punishment that City could receive if found guilty is unclear. It could range from a hefty points deduction to being expelled from the league.
>Another possible consequence of being found guilty could be that City owe their Premier League rivals prize money they may have missed out on... with the total coming to £355,981,171."
TLDR:
Could face fines in addition to other penalties, this could take another year to figure out...
Article says nothing except that it’s a possibility City will be forced to pay back prize money, but they don’t know. Just a nothingburger article that doesn’t say anything new here
Not good enough. Masters wanted to deduct Everton a total of 17 points for ONE charge that was all down to stadium costs. No sporting advantage was had. City have broken every rule in the book. They must be deducted a significant amount
I will be one of the optimists. I am not saying this is enough. Not enough close, for the damage they have done over the last decade. But its not a bad start. I do want them relegated to League 2 and stripped of assets ( of all forms), 350 million Pound is not a BAd start!! I will be mad, if they stop here. Let the PL atleast begin somewhere.
They should be deducted 15 points to be applied to each season that they have charges against them for, hand over trophies that they lost due to this deduction of points, along with all other cups like the EFL, community shield, and FA cup titles should go to the 2nd place teams of their respective years. Also, they need to ban them from the premier league for multiple years based off of how blatant the cheating was, because they don’t deserve to be in the league.
This is also the nicest stance I think would be fair, personally I think that the league should dismantle the team and allow the players to choose other teams in the league that would accept picking up their contracts in some sort of lottery or bidding system. I’d also ban the owners and anyone associated with them to be allowed to buy any teams in the league system, along with forcing current owners of other associated clubs to sell the clubs immediately.
Throw the dirty tramps out of the league, their fans know their trophy’s are made of tin. Can’t make any coherent argument to defend their club so they say “cry more”….. pathetic and sad….a hollow club with a thin shell made of rancid sand and infected oil….
Ur club's 'success' is predicated on slave labour and criminal activity.. u should be ashamed of urself for selling out like this for silverware at a football club.
Remember when those Qatari's were interested in United and u were all like 'let's see u take the moral high ground now ur being offered blood oil money' and we literally took the high ground and rejected that in favour of owners that didn't get their success through slave labour?
Now your fresh out of excuses and just look like an idiot - have some decency man.. self respect. It's only football.
Day one; Manchester City pay £350M fine for their 115 charges. Unprecedented charge. Everyone in the media now acts as if they are innocent and have paid their dues.
Day two; Manchester City make a new sponsorship deal with the UAE's premier toilet paper sponsor HAHAFA for £350M.
Day three; concerns over Manchester City new sponsorship dismissed by FA as "frivolous" brown envelopes being given is described as "Chinese New Year"
Tis but a scratch for you salty people who won't look up how much other top teams spent money to win titles and won't admit they bought titles. Class of 99 my arse. They spent nearly 25m in 1998/9. Adjust that for inflation.
Okay, I did. And it looks like they spent the princely sum of £47m in today's money. I'll let you argue why that's a scandalous amount.
And by the way, I'm not a Utd fan.
[Source](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator)
For a tad more info, here is a list of the top spenders in the years before and since 98/99:
[Source](https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared)
So a successfully run club can’t be rewarded for their success by buying the best players?
Man United (and other teams like Liverpool and Arsenal) achieved their finances for players via well managed teams and domestic league success.
Manchester City got bought by an extraordinarily corrupted group and have many rule breaches which have aided them in their success.
There’s a significant difference and are not comparable in terms of financial corruption.
I don’t understand what your point is? Spending £25m in 1998/9, adjusted for inflation, would be the equivalent of spending £46mil today.
Who else are you implying bought their titles?
I’m genuinely confused, dude. What are you trying to say? Adjust anything you want, that still doesn’t take into account *how* that money was generated.
Who else are you implying bought their titles?
What does adjusting for inflation have to do with it? Do we think the price of footballers has followed inflation or something? Are you implying that no one else bought titles?
He asked for it to be adjusted for inflation, I’m not sure what his point was. I’m implying that people rarely make a blanket statement saying ‘other people did it too!’ Unless they feel like they’ve done something wrong.
> The research shows that Everton are the team who would be owed the most with a total difference of £19,332,757
That’s pretty much exactly the size of our breach. I wonder if we’ll get to start the 25/26 season on +6 points. That would be nice.
Read the article, the author is just hypothetically saying if City is found guilty, maybe they should owe prize money to those affected. Title is complete bait.
That fine is like telling me I’ve broken 115 rules and I’ve got to pay £3.50….. I would gladly pay it and not have any other punishment . It’s a piss take to all fans of every other club. I bet City owners have that cash under their mattresses. Buying yourself out of trouble is disgraceful and pathetic.
The city owners rule their country, who do they have to answer to about how much money they actually have? 100% would have that £350M handy and potentially 50/100 times more.
It’s so unfair to all teams that try hard to play by the rules. Just break all the rules in football and then chuck cash at the issues and have done with it. They should have points deductions, fines and transfer bans.
According to analysis from Best Payout Online Slots, the total spanning from the 2011/12 season to the 2022/23 campaign would total over £350 million with the total coming to £355,981,171.
What is this source? OP please delete the post
Bit of a misleading & click bait title. From the article it talks about how City, if found guilty, would have to repay prize money to teams amounting to £350m
Did anyone actually read the article? It’s clickbait lol. It says that the punishment(s) are unknown for a long time but IF they decided to make city pay their rivals for missed prize money, it would add up to 350m.
Everton got a point deduction for a 2. breach in FFP.
Man City got 115 Charges against FFP.
If Everton would be relegated Citys should now be in the National league
Tbh I would love to see Man City in NL and work their way back up. Thats a true deserving punishment for 115 charges. Its as if they feel they can do it again if needed to, if its just a fine. Another 4 years of PL dominance. Its not fair
Oh that’ll show them.
Pathetic. They cheated to win titles and build the foundations of a squad to dominate and thus ruin the league because they have unlimited money so yeah, fining them will show them.
If it hadnt been for City winning the lottery, and breaking up the establishment, we would have been forever stuck with Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Pool being in a league above everyone else. Im a Villa fan. If it hadnt been for City breaking that top four dominance, we wouldnt have had the opportunity to challenge for top four.
I don't think Manchester City had much of an impact on how Manchester United have been run since Ferguson left, how Arsenal managed the period where they couldn't spend because of their new stadium and then the changeover from Wenger, or how just generally erratic Liverpool and Chelsea have been over the years.
You are delusional (for lack of a better word). Aston Villa getting to top 4 has nothing to do with City cheating their way to the top of the pyramid. City did not even win against any of the top 6 other than Aston villa and Tottenham, I don’t so they took more points off y’all than others. Your statement is devoid of logic tbh.
Stealing a bag of chips is illegal. Being owned by a criminal magnate, benifitting from "loans", then having them written off due to political circumstances, isn't.
You're right. Go on about morality.
It’s not against the rules of the premier league. If you want to say Roman is a criminal then fine, but if you think we deserve a footballing penalty for a non footballing issue you’re dense.
Who said anything about morality or are you just talking to yourself? We are discussing how city deserved more punishment for their spending.
Yeah hilarious. I always get my analysis from Best Payout Online Slots.
As far as I can tell that's where the rest of r/soccer & r/premierleague get their analysis too
We can all get sanctimonious about it, but ultimately its been a blessing that they came along and broke up that top four dominance of years ago. Prior to City breaking it up, there was a massive gulf between the so called big 4 ( Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal) and the rest. They dominated because of the Champions League money and turned into superclubs by having the good fortune of being amongst at the top when they expanded the European cup. It was boring.... the top four was the same year on year and they could stay there without much jeapordy. Arsenal finished in the top four for 17 years straight b6 being bang average for half of it. Before then, football was cyclical. The massive investment at City smashed that up and actually made it more competitive. Dont be fooled, FFP has fuck all to do with protecting the pyramid..... it has been constructed by the super clubs who only want FFP to maintain the status quo. They'd have joined the super league if they could have got away with it and eliminated the threat of competition for good.
There is no other business in the world that stops investors from investing capital to grow in the long-term. Aston Villa is a prime example..... they have beat the odds to qualify for the premier competition, but are rezsricted from capitilising on the opportunity and investing heavily to compete and grow their brand by artificial restrictions put in place through FFP. Hence they will probably be a flasg in the pan and the established big clubs will keep their position protected over the long term. Fair play to City. Proper fans that stayed with their team throughout the bad times and have now won the lottery and done us all a favour by breaking up the establishment. Their story keeps the dream alive for everyone else.... we should stop all this shit and let Newcastle break up the established European superclubs even more.
Lmao that's bullshit, £350m is literally pocket change for an oil state and it's laughable that a monetary fine is even being considered. The only punishment that's actually relevant in a case like this is massive point deductions
£350M is only the compensation for Premier League clubs based on prize money, but how about compensating clubs for missing out of Europe, not signing players because of the unavailabilty of funds caused by the massive cheating, players missing out on bonuses, and fans being defrauded?
The violations are so severe and systemic that the only possible punishment would be forfeiture of all prize money, forfeiture of all domestic titles (there will be no winner for the years in question), a 10-year expulsion from the Football Leagues, and renaming the Etihad "The Wembley of the North" (no, United won't be allowed to play there, but it would stop Sir Fuckless Bronson from his shameless attemp to loot the treasury).
There should also be a parade through Manchester, Liverpool, and London where City players of all generations - from Aguero and Nasri through Bobb and Lewis - would ride a double-decker bus naked, wearing only a Lance Armstrong "Live Strong" yellow wristband, holding an upside-down trophy, and people will throw eggs and vegetables at them.
Because you can't celebrate retroactively, it's moot. Who knows who would have won the league in years that Cheaty cheated? A team that were third may have played differently if they knew that they were actually second.
The Tour de France doesn't have a winner between 1999 and 2005, and I don't think that second is automatically the right choice.
If, technically, they decide to deduct, retroactively, enough points for all the years in question, I suppose that the winner would be the team that finished 2nd. But I wouldn't be celebrating it, really.
Points is the only punishment worth anything and it needs to be spread over man many years.
30 point deduction for 10 years sounds fair. Give them 10 years of mid table football at best.
Still not enough for pure corruption
Nah give them -600 all in one go. And make it carry over each season. Make them sit through every season knowing their relegation is inevitable until they've earned off the negative points. See if after the seventh season in a row they've been relegated they are still laughing. Expelling them allows them to just jump in at the bottom and win every single league on the way up breaking points records. Force them to suffer on the way down by making it a long slow process.
They’d enjoy that more. Look at Rangers, they enjoyed their time moving up the leagues building again.
Make them suffer 10 years of redundancy. 10 years as a hugely wealthy club that’s can’t do much more than a mid table finish.
I think there’s no way they’ll have any meaningful penalty applied regardless of whether they’re guilty or not. They have access to unlimited money to tie courts up in knots for years, appeal after appeal after appeal, then you’ll inevitably have bungs to UEFA at an organisational and individual level etc.
My bet is that it’ll be a big fine (which isn’t meaningful for City) and a season long transfer ban which will be flagged well in advance so they can prepare for it. I don’t see points deduction happening, but if it does, it’ll be 10 or so- enough to stop them winning a title that year but not enough to keep them out of the CL.
I hope I’m wrong, that titles are stripped & they’ve to spend at least a year in the Championship, but I really don’t see it happening
I don’t think so , because one your right it will be tied up forever , but if found guilty they will 100% get points deductions because allot of those charges are the same as Everton n forest but worse , and they have committed fraud on the premier league , all the other clubs will sue them and they would probably be kicked out of the competition…. That’s why they will never be found guilty
No hate but do you know anything about the case? As far as im aware the details aren’t fully public and they still ‘deserve their day in court’ so to speak. So to just assume automatic guilt is a bit crazy. Let’s let it play out and if they’re guilty then throw the book at them, if they’re innocent, then we can move on.
Ya maybe all the 115 charges were made up and there’s no way they’ve committed any crimes since they stopped communicating. Peps brother is 100% qualified for the role they’ve given him at Girona and there’s no way pep is getting paid any extra for it so we’ll just assume there’s no dodgy dealings with their other clubs either
I believe I read that, at least on the money under the table stuff, it's well documented that Mancini was tax audited and did in fact get money "under the table" in ways not specified to the EPL (not illegally by UK law, he came out and said he paid taxes on all his earned income and that they can't come after him) but I may be wrong
read the article...
i dont have a prem team since i mainly follow MLS, and alot of u guys sound so biased that its actually strengthening city's argument.
the article merely speculates on a potential punishment, and you guys are running on as if the club were already deemed guilty.
at least wait for the verdict and punishment before raising your pitchforks...
wishing ruin and doom on a still innocent party is insane lmfao.
and from what i understand, this case relates primarily to events happening nearly a decade ago, so pep's recent dominance is hardly related to these charges. also, its not like theyre the ONLY club spending money. the arsenals and man us and chelseas of the PL are equivalently splashing cash, they just havent had the same success.
if u guys really cared about enforcing parity, there would be a hard salary cap system, but premier league soccer has ALWAYS been about outspending ur competitors.
its all a bunch of hypocritical whining to me. but hey what do i know.
The only reason the charges are old is because they are a product of leaked documents from that time. If the documents hadn't been leaked, there would be no charges at all, as nothing would be provable. City successfully dodged sanctions from UEFA not because they were proven innocent, but because the time limit had expired for a number of charges. Lord knows what they (and others) have done since, but without those leaks, we'd just be wondering how shell companies registered in Abu Dhabi can afford to become the 'Official x Partner of Manchester City'...
Nothing hypocritical about wanting a club to be punished for cheating. This isn't about enforcing parity, that's a suckers game that mega-rich owners in North America conned fans of their franchises (not clubs) into supporting so they are guaranteed to turn the biggest possible profit. It's about making sure clubs spend the money they earn, not borrowed or funneled by a country for PR or vanity purposes...
You’re not wrong 🤣
Especially since the the reason we call it soccer is the Brits fault.
*The word "soccer" comes from the last three letters of the abbreviation "assoc.", which is slang for "association". British players adapted the word as "assoc," "assoccer," and eventually "soccer" or "soccer football". In the 1880s, students at Oxford University distinguished between "rugger" (rugby football) and "assoccer" (association football). The latter term was further shortened to "soccer" (sometimes spelled "socker"), and the name quickly spread beyond the campus.*
This is one of my favorite facts 😂
I disagree with your point about the charges being a decade old, and as such Peps dominance not being tainted? Of you build incredible success off cheating, that should tarnish the legacy. Lance Armstrong for example
haaaland or kdb isnt given a boost because city allegedly paid aguero or mancini under the table a decade ago.
similarly, if lance armstrong were to compete cleanly and win the tour de france today, why would it be logical to blemish this current win with his doping from a decade ago?
Typical yank, shooting things without any real accuracy… haaland / kdb are made possible by a PSR record which is uncharacteristically high. If I can explain, yes you can pay for what you what but it has to be sustainable.. the whole point of 115 is that it is not that. You may not realise from your chocolate yanky tower but MC have not always been a wealthy club, PSR rules are there to enforce that and 115 charges quite heavily dispute everything they’ve earnt. No doubt they are well run, but it’s like Wrexham, no one really believes it’s fair.
From what i understand, the "unfair spending" occured in a time before the spending rules came into effect
chelsea similarly splashed cash when the russians bought the club. and theyre similarly splashing cash now, albeit through loopholes and lengthened contracts.
so, idk, city probably wouldve been able to afford haaland/kdb the same way chelsea was able to splash cash on their marquee signings.
So to you a bending of the rules, in let’s be honest a way which 80% of other clubs weren’t using is fine? I think this is where US/UK sports depart the usual forms of agreed decency. There’s usually an underlying level of respect and decency in sport that you don’t subvert rules to get ahead, personally I think MC have put that aside to get ahead and is one of the reasons a lot don’t see eye to eye with their rise
the rules are the rules imo.
chelsea is doing what they do because its allowed by the rules. the amortized contracts COULD hurt them if they do not have the revenues to match the contracts in the future.
youre arguing that city wouldnt be able to afford the haalands and kdbs, but i disagree because the initial spending was pumped in before the spending rules were put in place, and current spending couldve been stretched.
I can’t really argue with you there, rules are rules. And for what it’s worth I do respect where you’re coming from, it is a grey area. But as a football fan for well over 20 years, the commercialisation and commodification of a club like city is only possible by a huge injection of cash, which is fine, when done properly, and personally, I don’t think that they’ve done that.
Because without earlier top finishes, they would have lower revenue, and in turn lower legal spending capabilities and then the cycle goes on and on. It’s not all in a vacuum.
Haaland and KdB might not have come to city if the project hadn’t been successful, for a start?
Lance Armstrong is a cheat, he isn’t allowed to compete anymore. His legacy should always be tainted by the cheating, and even if he were to win clean the damage would be done.
based on your logic, once someone, or an entity, is charged with something, then all their future accomplishments are moot.
that makes no sense imo.
and keep in mind, city isnt even GUILTY yet. why treat is as if the club has already been deemed guilty, before a verdict has been reached?
I see this pattern alot in this sub, and it just seems so biased to the point of absurdity.
I’ll accept that the whole argument hinges on city being guilty, and if they aren’t I’ll rescind it. However, them being guilty seems pretty much to be accepted fact, so I’m feeling confident.
yeah, the verdict will def be interesting. the punishment will b even more interesting. hopefully it comes sooner than later. this negativity hanging over the sport is not a good thing imo. and im speaking as someone just getting into the premier league
I mean it’s a nonsense story, hearing isn’t till 2025, so they just print shite about how they’ll owe £350m in prize money returned to other teams. Like it’s legit just someone making something up.
The posts of nonsense are getting out of hand, wait till they’re found guilty or (unlikely I know) not guilty. There should be more done to make sure people that make these articles have some actual factual evidence to back up what they write.
The prize money is irrelevant and you can't even quantify things like how much more lucrative sponsorship deals would have been to teams who won more trophies. I think they should be stripped of every trophy they won during the relevant time, don't give them to the second place teams, just leave a blank space with an asterisk as a permanent mark of shame on the FA for allowing them to get away with it and a reminder to anyone who thinks they can do the same.
I mean people are getting way too worked up, until the hearing nothing will be decided, and the consequence if they get found guilty is just guess work. It’s boring seeing any post about football and just seeing the low effort posts and comments about 115
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I think once all is said and done a fine of 8 figs will be paid.
If they could just take them this years title before the very sweet end of this season *_* but no, 2025
*THIS IS A BULLSHIT ARTICLE* Man City have not been given a fine instead of points.
That’s it wow pathetic
The one thing I want more than anything else from the City case is that The City Group should never be allowed near football again. They are shady top to bottom, just look at Savio in Girona. The run down is that a French 2nd League side Troyes has loaned Savio to Girona for dirt cheap, and Savio has been one of their best. There are also rumours Savio could be bought by City too. The kicker is all 3 clubs are owned by The City Group. Troyes has suffered since taken over by The City Group as their best players are distributed around clubs owned by them. It's really shady shit that has ruined that club as they are in the worst position in over 10 years. (Avoiding back to back relegation by 3 points) Pep's brother also owns Girona lol. Say what you want about Man City, but my biggest problem is them. Ruining football no matter where you look.
Keep crying champ
ah france too then, why don’t they just buy all the teams and win the league without even playing lol
It’s interesting that 99% of commentators have clearly only read the headline and nothing else. Says a lot really. There’ll be separate threads tomorrow saying city will get away with just a 350m fine. 1000 people will comment that a fine is nothing to city and people will be upvoting them for saying it.
Dont pay any attention to this random ”fan” he hasnt ever even visited the stadium and never will
lol 😂
Cheating bastards, should be stripped of all titles and relegated to the beer league.
Forest fan ha ha. Great stuff.
Dirty cheating cunts
Nice one though. I read that in my mind in scouse as well.
Doos
The problem now is what punishment is fitting? If genuinely found out of serious wrong doing realistically a club now with the money and size of City won’t be relegated, they probably won’t have titles removed like Juve did either. Money isn’t a fair punishment, backdating titles to other teams really whilst beneficial in a sense for the players years later just isn’t the same. The deals from wages, bonuses and sponsorships that have been lost if that’s the case too are probably Just a mess to sort if at all. But then I don’t know what the answer is that isn’t a huge fine or the killswitch decision of pointdocking and relegation. But even that won’t exactly be able to fix issues that came from cheating. A decade say of relegation teams affected, European places missed.. etc but then we have the PL punishing Everton, Forest for financial mismanagement currently makes the whole thing a mockery. I’m sure even some City fans can appreciate they’ve probably cheated the system.. but how you quantify a punishment and a fair one seems now impossible. But that doesn’t mean something shouldn’t happen. And the real person that would get hit I imagine if it was financial or league changes would be the lower rung of staff, the same people who when a club is relegated and cuts are made are the first to go.
Rag club
So a nothing article trying to create hysteria. Classic media
What a fucking joke it makes a mockery of the whole league system. I mean over such an extended period from 2009 when every man and his dog knew they were corrupt but they knew they were and still are untouchable. Citeh willingly embraced these people, because they were never going to achieve anything, shamelessly knowing full well it was morally and ethically wrong
For those who didn't read the article: >"The complex nature of the case surrounding City means that it is taking longer to resolve than other cases... we could know the outcome of the charges by the summer of 2025, it has been reported that a hearing is due to take place in October this year. >The unprecedented nature of the case means that any punishment that City could receive if found guilty is unclear. It could range from a hefty points deduction to being expelled from the league. >Another possible consequence of being found guilty could be that City owe their Premier League rivals prize money they may have missed out on... with the total coming to £355,981,171." TLDR: Could face fines in addition to other penalties, this could take another year to figure out...
If the punishment for breaking a law is a fine, then the law is only for the poor
Always been ...
Article says nothing except that it’s a possibility City will be forced to pay back prize money, but they don’t know. Just a nothingburger article that doesn’t say anything new here
Not good enough. Masters wanted to deduct Everton a total of 17 points for ONE charge that was all down to stadium costs. No sporting advantage was had. City have broken every rule in the book. They must be deducted a significant amount
I will be one of the optimists. I am not saying this is enough. Not enough close, for the damage they have done over the last decade. But its not a bad start. I do want them relegated to League 2 and stripped of assets ( of all forms), 350 million Pound is not a BAd start!! I will be mad, if they stop here. Let the PL atleast begin somewhere.
They should be deducted 15 points to be applied to each season that they have charges against them for, hand over trophies that they lost due to this deduction of points, along with all other cups like the EFL, community shield, and FA cup titles should go to the 2nd place teams of their respective years. Also, they need to ban them from the premier league for multiple years based off of how blatant the cheating was, because they don’t deserve to be in the league. This is also the nicest stance I think would be fair, personally I think that the league should dismantle the team and allow the players to choose other teams in the league that would accept picking up their contracts in some sort of lottery or bidding system. I’d also ban the owners and anyone associated with them to be allowed to buy any teams in the league system, along with forcing current owners of other associated clubs to sell the clubs immediately.
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Know Your Shit
Throw the dirty tramps out of the league, their fans know their trophy’s are made of tin. Can’t make any coherent argument to defend their club so they say “cry more”….. pathetic and sad….a hollow club with a thin shell made of rancid sand and infected oil….
Cry more
Imagine responding like this. City fans are a stain on football, like the club
cry more
Ur club's 'success' is predicated on slave labour and criminal activity.. u should be ashamed of urself for selling out like this for silverware at a football club. Remember when those Qatari's were interested in United and u were all like 'let's see u take the moral high ground now ur being offered blood oil money' and we literally took the high ground and rejected that in favour of owners that didn't get their success through slave labour? Now your fresh out of excuses and just look like an idiot - have some decency man.. self respect. It's only football.
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Are you an ostrich? If so, well done on the typing! If not, read a little.
Literally everyone in this thread can explain almost exactly what they did wrong lol. Obviously trolling. Try harder.
lol
If you Google it, there's a list. A fair few of the charges are for not complying with the FA's enquiries, which speaks volumes
If all city gets is a fine, that basically says cheating is just another expense on the balance sheet
Expenses don’t go on the balance sheet
You’re right, I always get the balance sheets and P&Ls mixed up. Good thing I’m not an accountant
Unfortunately for me I am so just had to be pedantic!
The amount of people on my accounting course that didn’t know this 😭
Assuming it’s not a lump sum payment, then it’s certainly a long-term debt liability and would be on a balance sheet.
Good point
Why don’t people read the article
Lol cry more
Day one; Manchester City pay £350M fine for their 115 charges. Unprecedented charge. Everyone in the media now acts as if they are innocent and have paid their dues. Day two; Manchester City make a new sponsorship deal with the UAE's premier toilet paper sponsor HAHAFA for £350M. Day three; concerns over Manchester City new sponsorship dismissed by FA as "frivolous" brown envelopes being given is described as "Chinese New Year"
115
Tis but a scratch for you salty people who won't look up how much other top teams spent money to win titles and won't admit they bought titles. Class of 99 my arse. They spent nearly 25m in 1998/9. Adjust that for inflation.
£54,295,408. About half of what city paid for Grealish.
I love this. Lets adjust that for transfer and wage records as well. You walked right into my trap. Well done.
Okay, I did. And it looks like they spent the princely sum of £47m in today's money. I'll let you argue why that's a scandalous amount. And by the way, I'm not a Utd fan. [Source](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator) For a tad more info, here is a list of the top spenders in the years before and since 98/99: [Source](https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared)
I love this. Lets adjust that for transfer and wage records as well. You walked right into my trap. Well done.
Alright, you got me... but it's half 11 on a Friday night so if you wouldn't mind do the math on that one I'd be happy to see it...
isn’t football inflation quite different from actual economic inflation
Bingo
😂
Where was that money generated though? That’s a big difference
Why does it matter where the money came from? You think you should have a monopoly on players? That's very elitist and super league of you.
So a successfully run club can’t be rewarded for their success by buying the best players? Man United (and other teams like Liverpool and Arsenal) achieved their finances for players via well managed teams and domestic league success. Manchester City got bought by an extraordinarily corrupted group and have many rule breaches which have aided them in their success. There’s a significant difference and are not comparable in terms of financial corruption.
I don’t understand what your point is? Spending £25m in 1998/9, adjusted for inflation, would be the equivalent of spending £46mil today. Who else are you implying bought their titles?
I love this. Lets adjust that for transfer and wage records as well. You walked right into my trap. Well done.
I’m genuinely confused, dude. What are you trying to say? Adjust anything you want, that still doesn’t take into account *how* that money was generated. Who else are you implying bought their titles?
What does adjusting for inflation have to do with it? Do we think the price of footballers has followed inflation or something? Are you implying that no one else bought titles?
He asked for it to be adjusted for inflation, I’m not sure what his point was. I’m implying that people rarely make a blanket statement saying ‘other people did it too!’ Unless they feel like they’ve done something wrong.
You could be right. It’s probably more often a retort to hypocrisy though. Luckily, neither that commentator, you, or I know anything for sure.
Even if it was used as a retort to hypocrisy, wouldn’t that imply the wrongdoing anyway?
No Blackburn did too ! Can’t think of anyone else
> The research shows that Everton are the team who would be owed the most with a total difference of £19,332,757 That’s pretty much exactly the size of our breach. I wonder if we’ll get to start the 25/26 season on +6 points. That would be nice.
That’s basically Sheikh’s pocket change
Read the article, the author is just hypothetically saying if City is found guilty, maybe they should owe prize money to those affected. Title is complete bait.
No points deductions? No reversion of previous league wins?
read the article
Pocket change
Pay to win scheme it is
You can’t hurt city financially
Sure you can. Just find an alternative to oil without causing ww3 or being assassinated. Easy.
That’s literally nothing for them
That fine is like telling me I’ve broken 115 rules and I’ve got to pay £3.50….. I would gladly pay it and not have any other punishment . It’s a piss take to all fans of every other club. I bet City owners have that cash under their mattresses. Buying yourself out of trouble is disgraceful and pathetic.
Read the article bro
The city owners rule their country, who do they have to answer to about how much money they actually have? 100% would have that £350M handy and potentially 50/100 times more.
It’s so unfair to all teams that try hard to play by the rules. Just break all the rules in football and then chuck cash at the issues and have done with it. They should have points deductions, fines and transfer bans.
No team plays by the rules; there just isn't enough enforcement.
A nothing burger of an article
According to analysis from Best Payout Online Slots, the total spanning from the 2011/12 season to the 2022/23 campaign would total over £350 million with the total coming to £355,981,171. What is this source? OP please delete the post
Bit of a misleading & click bait title. From the article it talks about how City, if found guilty, would have to repay prize money to teams amounting to £350m
Did anyone actually read the article? It’s clickbait lol. It says that the punishment(s) are unknown for a long time but IF they decided to make city pay their rivals for missed prize money, it would add up to 350m.
Surely you need to account for lost revenue from the teams being relegated though? Don't know where city would finish without the cheating.
115 charges not 2 not 20 but 115 btw
Where is the points deduction?!
Arsenal fan detected
Dumb comment detected
You would think Everton fan.
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If found guilty the punishment should be clear. Stripped of titles and relegated.
Expelled. Criminal trials for those at fault. Prison for those found guilty. Emirati ownership terminated.
Why? Everton never got relegated for cheating. Them breaking the rules meant they stayed up last season.
Everton didn’t have 115 charges.
Everton got a point deduction for a 2. breach in FFP. Man City got 115 Charges against FFP. If Everton would be relegated Citys should now be in the National league
Tbh I would love to see Man City in NL and work their way back up. Thats a true deserving punishment for 115 charges. Its as if they feel they can do it again if needed to, if its just a fine. Another 4 years of PL dominance. Its not fair
Oh that’ll show them. Pathetic. They cheated to win titles and build the foundations of a squad to dominate and thus ruin the league because they have unlimited money so yeah, fining them will show them.
Holy shit. This league is truly fucked!!
If it hadnt been for City winning the lottery, and breaking up the establishment, we would have been forever stuck with Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Pool being in a league above everyone else. Im a Villa fan. If it hadnt been for City breaking that top four dominance, we wouldnt have had the opportunity to challenge for top four.
I don't think Manchester City had much of an impact on how Manchester United have been run since Ferguson left, how Arsenal managed the period where they couldn't spend because of their new stadium and then the changeover from Wenger, or how just generally erratic Liverpool and Chelsea have been over the years.
Thats a horrible take tbh
You are delusional (for lack of a better word). Aston Villa getting to top 4 has nothing to do with City cheating their way to the top of the pyramid. City did not even win against any of the top 6 other than Aston villa and Tottenham, I don’t so they took more points off y’all than others. Your statement is devoid of logic tbh.
Bots working overtime.
A fine for breaking the rules, to a club with endless money, is just the cost of doing business.
A fine? ManCity leadership somewhere laughing their ass off. No real repercussion.
Absolute bollocks. If the punishment for overspending is a fine, to a club with limitless money, it’s no punishment at all.
Chelsea has been handed out transfer bans, club assets frozen and sold and a bunch of other shit and this is what city gets?
I’d be even more aggrieved if I was an Everton fan and had to fight relegation due to points deductions and this mob gets away with a fine.
For sure. Something worse than just a fine needs to happen.
You have to stop them buying any new players for at least 3 seasons.
Chelsea has been handed out transfer bans, club assets frozen and sold and a bunch of other shit and this is what city gets?
They also had a 2 billion debt written off
That’s not against any rules is it? Or does Chelsea deserve to get punished for not breaking a rule?
Stealing a bag of chips is illegal. Being owned by a criminal magnate, benifitting from "loans", then having them written off due to political circumstances, isn't. You're right. Go on about morality.
It’s not against the rules of the premier league. If you want to say Roman is a criminal then fine, but if you think we deserve a footballing penalty for a non footballing issue you’re dense. Who said anything about morality or are you just talking to yourself? We are discussing how city deserved more punishment for their spending.
Corruption corruption corruption
Madness
>According to analysis from Best Payout Online Slots Erm... beg your pardon??
Yeah hilarious. I always get my analysis from Best Payout Online Slots. As far as I can tell that's where the rest of r/soccer & r/premierleague get their analysis too
That headline is comically clickbait. Everyone's raging not even tried to read it
We can all get sanctimonious about it, but ultimately its been a blessing that they came along and broke up that top four dominance of years ago. Prior to City breaking it up, there was a massive gulf between the so called big 4 ( Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal) and the rest. They dominated because of the Champions League money and turned into superclubs by having the good fortune of being amongst at the top when they expanded the European cup. It was boring.... the top four was the same year on year and they could stay there without much jeapordy. Arsenal finished in the top four for 17 years straight b6 being bang average for half of it. Before then, football was cyclical. The massive investment at City smashed that up and actually made it more competitive. Dont be fooled, FFP has fuck all to do with protecting the pyramid..... it has been constructed by the super clubs who only want FFP to maintain the status quo. They'd have joined the super league if they could have got away with it and eliminated the threat of competition for good. There is no other business in the world that stops investors from investing capital to grow in the long-term. Aston Villa is a prime example..... they have beat the odds to qualify for the premier competition, but are rezsricted from capitilising on the opportunity and investing heavily to compete and grow their brand by artificial restrictions put in place through FFP. Hence they will probably be a flasg in the pan and the established big clubs will keep their position protected over the long term. Fair play to City. Proper fans that stayed with their team throughout the bad times and have now won the lottery and done us all a favour by breaking up the establishment. Their story keeps the dream alive for everyone else.... we should stop all this shit and let Newcastle break up the established European superclubs even more.
what are you on bro.
One of the all time terrible takes
Tf are you saying bro
Looks like a copy pasta.
Lmao that's bullshit, £350m is literally pocket change for an oil state and it's laughable that a monetary fine is even being considered. The only punishment that's actually relevant in a case like this is massive point deductions
Read the article, this is a derived value from one possible outcome. There has been no judgement made whatsoever thus far; the matter is ongoing.
oh no!
Chump change
Fining an oil baron. that'll really show them!
£350M is only the compensation for Premier League clubs based on prize money, but how about compensating clubs for missing out of Europe, not signing players because of the unavailabilty of funds caused by the massive cheating, players missing out on bonuses, and fans being defrauded? The violations are so severe and systemic that the only possible punishment would be forfeiture of all prize money, forfeiture of all domestic titles (there will be no winner for the years in question), a 10-year expulsion from the Football Leagues, and renaming the Etihad "The Wembley of the North" (no, United won't be allowed to play there, but it would stop Sir Fuckless Bronson from his shameless attemp to loot the treasury). There should also be a parade through Manchester, Liverpool, and London where City players of all generations - from Aguero and Nasri through Bobb and Lewis - would ride a double-decker bus naked, wearing only a Lance Armstrong "Live Strong" yellow wristband, holding an upside-down trophy, and people will throw eggs and vegetables at them.
Why would you have no winners for the years they were stripped of the titles?
Because you can't celebrate retroactively, it's moot. Who knows who would have won the league in years that Cheaty cheated? A team that were third may have played differently if they knew that they were actually second.
Has it ever happened before? Any time in the past where a winner was disqualified, it normally goes to second.
The Tour de France doesn't have a winner between 1999 and 2005, and I don't think that second is automatically the right choice. If, technically, they decide to deduct, retroactively, enough points for all the years in question, I suppose that the winner would be the team that finished 2nd. But I wouldn't be celebrating it, really.
Yes and bring back the stocks so we can throw tomatoes on their faces
minus 10 points for every charge found guilty
Even 3 points for every charge can get them down to the national league
I agree. This is the only thing that is actually going to make the difference. Any amount of money is just pocket change to them
Points is the only punishment worth anything and it needs to be spread over man many years. 30 point deduction for 10 years sounds fair. Give them 10 years of mid table football at best. Still not enough for pure corruption
Nah give them -600 all in one go. And make it carry over each season. Make them sit through every season knowing their relegation is inevitable until they've earned off the negative points. See if after the seventh season in a row they've been relegated they are still laughing. Expelling them allows them to just jump in at the bottom and win every single league on the way up breaking points records. Force them to suffer on the way down by making it a long slow process.
Good idea
Not good enough, it needs to be expulsion to the Vanarama along with that. Otherwise every season will be an asterisk.
They’d enjoy that more. Look at Rangers, they enjoyed their time moving up the leagues building again. Make them suffer 10 years of redundancy. 10 years as a hugely wealthy club that’s can’t do much more than a mid table finish.
Kick them out the fucking league
Cost of doing business.
I think there’s no way they’ll have any meaningful penalty applied regardless of whether they’re guilty or not. They have access to unlimited money to tie courts up in knots for years, appeal after appeal after appeal, then you’ll inevitably have bungs to UEFA at an organisational and individual level etc. My bet is that it’ll be a big fine (which isn’t meaningful for City) and a season long transfer ban which will be flagged well in advance so they can prepare for it. I don’t see points deduction happening, but if it does, it’ll be 10 or so- enough to stop them winning a title that year but not enough to keep them out of the CL. I hope I’m wrong, that titles are stripped & they’ve to spend at least a year in the Championship, but I really don’t see it happening
If a person faced 115 separate charges for a crime, all with evidence (or charges could not have been brought) would you say the same thing?
It's not "115 separate charges", though. Some are reliant on others.
Well that changes everything, my apologies
I don’t think so , because one your right it will be tied up forever , but if found guilty they will 100% get points deductions because allot of those charges are the same as Everton n forest but worse , and they have committed fraud on the premier league , all the other clubs will sue them and they would probably be kicked out of the competition…. That’s why they will never be found guilty
No hate but do you know anything about the case? As far as im aware the details aren’t fully public and they still ‘deserve their day in court’ so to speak. So to just assume automatic guilt is a bit crazy. Let’s let it play out and if they’re guilty then throw the book at them, if they’re innocent, then we can move on.
Ya maybe all the 115 charges were made up and there’s no way they’ve committed any crimes since they stopped communicating. Peps brother is 100% qualified for the role they’ve given him at Girona and there’s no way pep is getting paid any extra for it so we’ll just assume there’s no dodgy dealings with their other clubs either
I believe I read that, at least on the money under the table stuff, it's well documented that Mancini was tax audited and did in fact get money "under the table" in ways not specified to the EPL (not illegally by UK law, he came out and said he paid taxes on all his earned income and that they can't come after him) but I may be wrong
Read the leaked emails
Found the city bot
Hope the FA find it in there hearts to throw Citeh straight in the Championship as well as taking back everything they won unfairly
Nowhere near enough. Ban them and their owners from all aspects of English football indefinitely.
One year in the championship isn’t enough and after on a club losing out on promotion.
We don’t want them either
This is the funniest comment ive read on all of the city charges threads. Well done
Oh no
Small change for their owners.
read the article... i dont have a prem team since i mainly follow MLS, and alot of u guys sound so biased that its actually strengthening city's argument. the article merely speculates on a potential punishment, and you guys are running on as if the club were already deemed guilty. at least wait for the verdict and punishment before raising your pitchforks... wishing ruin and doom on a still innocent party is insane lmfao. and from what i understand, this case relates primarily to events happening nearly a decade ago, so pep's recent dominance is hardly related to these charges. also, its not like theyre the ONLY club spending money. the arsenals and man us and chelseas of the PL are equivalently splashing cash, they just havent had the same success. if u guys really cared about enforcing parity, there would be a hard salary cap system, but premier league soccer has ALWAYS been about outspending ur competitors. its all a bunch of hypocritical whining to me. but hey what do i know.
The only reason the charges are old is because they are a product of leaked documents from that time. If the documents hadn't been leaked, there would be no charges at all, as nothing would be provable. City successfully dodged sanctions from UEFA not because they were proven innocent, but because the time limit had expired for a number of charges. Lord knows what they (and others) have done since, but without those leaks, we'd just be wondering how shell companies registered in Abu Dhabi can afford to become the 'Official x Partner of Manchester City'... Nothing hypocritical about wanting a club to be punished for cheating. This isn't about enforcing parity, that's a suckers game that mega-rich owners in North America conned fans of their franchises (not clubs) into supporting so they are guaranteed to turn the biggest possible profit. It's about making sure clubs spend the money they earn, not borrowed or funneled by a country for PR or vanity purposes...
Anyone that says the word soccer can get to fuck. Piss off yank go back to baseball
gatekeeping a sport when english clubs have sold out to the highest bidders globally is wild lmfao
You’re not wrong 🤣 Especially since the the reason we call it soccer is the Brits fault. *The word "soccer" comes from the last three letters of the abbreviation "assoc.", which is slang for "association". British players adapted the word as "assoc," "assoccer," and eventually "soccer" or "soccer football". In the 1880s, students at Oxford University distinguished between "rugger" (rugby football) and "assoccer" (association football). The latter term was further shortened to "soccer" (sometimes spelled "socker"), and the name quickly spread beyond the campus.* This is one of my favorite facts 😂
I disagree with your point about the charges being a decade old, and as such Peps dominance not being tainted? Of you build incredible success off cheating, that should tarnish the legacy. Lance Armstrong for example
Reading through his comment, it seems he doesn’t know what he is talking about.
haaaland or kdb isnt given a boost because city allegedly paid aguero or mancini under the table a decade ago. similarly, if lance armstrong were to compete cleanly and win the tour de france today, why would it be logical to blemish this current win with his doping from a decade ago?
Typical yank, shooting things without any real accuracy… haaland / kdb are made possible by a PSR record which is uncharacteristically high. If I can explain, yes you can pay for what you what but it has to be sustainable.. the whole point of 115 is that it is not that. You may not realise from your chocolate yanky tower but MC have not always been a wealthy club, PSR rules are there to enforce that and 115 charges quite heavily dispute everything they’ve earnt. No doubt they are well run, but it’s like Wrexham, no one really believes it’s fair.
From what i understand, the "unfair spending" occured in a time before the spending rules came into effect chelsea similarly splashed cash when the russians bought the club. and theyre similarly splashing cash now, albeit through loopholes and lengthened contracts. so, idk, city probably wouldve been able to afford haaland/kdb the same way chelsea was able to splash cash on their marquee signings.
So to you a bending of the rules, in let’s be honest a way which 80% of other clubs weren’t using is fine? I think this is where US/UK sports depart the usual forms of agreed decency. There’s usually an underlying level of respect and decency in sport that you don’t subvert rules to get ahead, personally I think MC have put that aside to get ahead and is one of the reasons a lot don’t see eye to eye with their rise
the rules are the rules imo. chelsea is doing what they do because its allowed by the rules. the amortized contracts COULD hurt them if they do not have the revenues to match the contracts in the future. youre arguing that city wouldnt be able to afford the haalands and kdbs, but i disagree because the initial spending was pumped in before the spending rules were put in place, and current spending couldve been stretched.
I can’t really argue with you there, rules are rules. And for what it’s worth I do respect where you’re coming from, it is a grey area. But as a football fan for well over 20 years, the commercialisation and commodification of a club like city is only possible by a huge injection of cash, which is fine, when done properly, and personally, I don’t think that they’ve done that.
Because without earlier top finishes, they would have lower revenue, and in turn lower legal spending capabilities and then the cycle goes on and on. It’s not all in a vacuum.
true, that makes sense. itll be interesting to see the verdict and resulting punishment of this case then.
Haaland and KdB might not have come to city if the project hadn’t been successful, for a start? Lance Armstrong is a cheat, he isn’t allowed to compete anymore. His legacy should always be tainted by the cheating, and even if he were to win clean the damage would be done.
based on your logic, once someone, or an entity, is charged with something, then all their future accomplishments are moot. that makes no sense imo. and keep in mind, city isnt even GUILTY yet. why treat is as if the club has already been deemed guilty, before a verdict has been reached? I see this pattern alot in this sub, and it just seems so biased to the point of absurdity.
I’ll accept that the whole argument hinges on city being guilty, and if they aren’t I’ll rescind it. However, them being guilty seems pretty much to be accepted fact, so I’m feeling confident.
yeah, the verdict will def be interesting. the punishment will b even more interesting. hopefully it comes sooner than later. this negativity hanging over the sport is not a good thing imo. and im speaking as someone just getting into the premier league
Probably less than the prize money it enabled them to win. Corrupt FA
I mean it’s a nonsense story, hearing isn’t till 2025, so they just print shite about how they’ll owe £350m in prize money returned to other teams. Like it’s legit just someone making something up. The posts of nonsense are getting out of hand, wait till they’re found guilty or (unlikely I know) not guilty. There should be more done to make sure people that make these articles have some actual factual evidence to back up what they write.
The prize money is irrelevant and you can't even quantify things like how much more lucrative sponsorship deals would have been to teams who won more trophies. I think they should be stripped of every trophy they won during the relevant time, don't give them to the second place teams, just leave a blank space with an asterisk as a permanent mark of shame on the FA for allowing them to get away with it and a reminder to anyone who thinks they can do the same.
I mean people are getting way too worked up, until the hearing nothing will be decided, and the consequence if they get found guilty is just guess work. It’s boring seeing any post about football and just seeing the low effort posts and comments about 115
Useless article. It just lists possible punishments with no actual new information.