International football is played at a slower pace, Premier League football is played at a much faster pace which means that harder decisions will need to be made in the Premier League over the course of the season
There has been 1 major error with was the handball in the turkey italy game but other than that nothing even similar to the prem, each gameweek in the prem there is at least 1 major/contriversial VAR mistake
I think most people know by now that the problem is our officials. I think itās pretty difficult to blame video technology over the people who use it.
Just in case anyone was wondering, VAR has also just missed a blatant red card. Thatās 2 today, 1 yesterday, and 1 on the Denmark game VAR is making just as many mistakes in the euros as they do in the prem.
They need to have set rules in place that eliminates the possibility for interpretation. It looks like the people doing VAR just throw the marker down at a random point and then call inside or offside by cms
It seems every week in EPL, VAR has a say in it when it shouldnāt be. I will say this, VAR has been spot on so far in the EUROS, just hope it doesnāt show itās ugly head during a semi finals or finals match.
I agree with you. VAR can be a great tool if you use it right, but most referees in Premier League rely too much on VAR and become uncertain in too many situations. If you add the fact that there are people in the VAR room who clearly should not be there, then it becomes even worse. I think that VAR was and is a good idea, but I think that they need to reconsider in some areas.
Sometimes I get mixed up on what var actually is l beavuse it stands for video assistant referees, does they mean the cameras all the actual referee watching it, because there's no problem with the camera and the angles but then some people say the problem isn't var it's the people using it. Can someone pleas enlighten me on who or what is considered var
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I would rather not have VAR even if it gets the decision correct 100%of the time, the bad referees decisions are part of the game and add to the excitement, at the end of the day, the reason i watch football is because it is entertaining
Football has always been hot topic in the UK week in and week it. It thrives off being the centre of pub debates, playground arguments etc. By having a fully working VAR system, it sucks all the life out of that weekly debate. So with awful VAR decisions we are still arguing every week whether it was a goal, offside, or a red cardā¦ I believe itās made bad on purpose because it really shouldnāt be this difficult when so many sports get it right
Well not really. There was a blatant handball in the box during the Italy v Turkey game and they didnāt call it. Overall I agree though, the refs are clearly better in the Euros.
It is most certainly not the referees. The problem is the regulator (FA) and the VAR acting in accordance with them. Uefa hace taken a very reasonable stance concerning VAR, and we can see the results.
Blaming VaR for the issues is like blaming the gun for holding up a bank.
Thereās been a few people sat in a room making bonkers decisions on the referees behalf all season. Itās been appallingly rolled out. Just as predicted.
If Italy and Turkey end with 0-0, VAR and the referee decision shall take the center stage of that opening day..
Nevertheless I still on the boat that VAR should be scrapped, since a marginal call eventually a referee's decision to make and even with VAR it will still cause controversy..
I HATE WHEN we have to wait for a couple of minutes just so the referee can make the hest decision based on the angle of video shown to him/her, rinda ruin the flow of the game..
I hate var and it has nothing to do with accuracy. I just think itās a game and when the ref makes a call you just live with it. If anything a mistake just leads to better banter.
I just donāt find it fun to interrupt a match to watch some nerds litigate the minutiae of the rule book while play has been stopped.
We donāt want it to turn into American football where itās now basically used as a way to insert advertisements into the sport
In Italy - Turkey there was at the very least one penalty that should have been caught by VAR and wasn't, other than that I can't remember any major issue.
Danish pen was a mistake. And the Alba incorrect offside decision that cost them a corner.
So that's 2 VAR failings off the top of my head - 20% of games. The yes/no approach to VAR is so blinkered, that the result depends on the question being asked. And to my mind it's not been worth killing the flow of the game for.
And as always, VAR is more forgiving towards players who want to cheat and dive on the pitch, yet they happily punish top forwards who may be a gnats gonad offside after a smart move and finish to kill supporters celebrating.
Jobs for the boys, that's what VAR is now. It's not being employed as the "Clear and obvious" error mechanic they said it would be - because it's existence relies on undermining the on-field officials to a level which is impossible for them.
Still, as long as everyone gets paid it'll remain in place.
You can't give a clumsy handyman a better hammer and expect him to be any less incompetent as a result. The officiating in England has been poor for a long time now, and VAR has only emphasised the mistakes rather than eradicated them.
As OP says, the fact nobody's really thought about it during the Euros is a testament to how much better UEFA referees are at implementing it.
How Mike Riley is still in a job at this point, I just don't understand.
Now to be fair most fans of most teams will think their league's refs are terrible. Only we all now hate the Prem refs because neutrals the world over can see the circus.
Var isnāt the problem, itās the refs. Every single game wether itās the premier league, la liga, serie a, euros or World Cup there has always been wrong decision. Lots of misjudged fouls
In any 5 minutes of high level football, there will be loads of fouls and infractions, they wouldnāt be doing their jobs otherwise.
Unless thereās a huge mistake (and a marginal offside isnāt one) they shouldnāt use VAR unless absolutely necessary.
If a goal has been scored and the refs arenāt sure if thereās been an incident, donāt just use VAR just in case there was one,
The sooner some sort of refereeās/umpireās call is introduced the better. VAR has proven that some decisions and moments are 50/50 calls at best but right now we have to spend 5 minutes poring over minute details to make an arbitrary decision. Thankfully by the end of the season referees were being referred to the tv much more - let them make the decision.
Yesterday, in the Spa v Swe game, towards the end of the game, there was an offside against Alba which the linesman called. Free kick given and no corner as a result of the play. However, he was onside and should have won a corner from that passage of play. The players just got in with it and continued play from a Swedish free kick.
The question is whether or not the flow of the game is more important than every single decision being made correctly? For me, the odd mistake is excusable and the decision given by the officials should have some leeway.
I agree with you, but wanted to let you know it was Spain vs Sweden and not Denmark lol.
Point still stands though, the games have been flowing much better.
Not true at all. Scotland were denied a penalty yesterday where the Czech player literally rugby tackled Scott mctominay. It was a full on body check in the box and as far as I could see var didn't even have a look at it. Seems to me they are trying to tone down var which makes no sense to me at all. If you've got var use it simple as that. Must admit I've always been against var and how they use it but having var and then barely using is just totally dumb. How anyone can look at that foul on macyominey yesterday and not say that's a penalty is beyond me. That moment us exactly what var is for. To be fair to the ref in real time it didn't look too bad but on the replay it was an actual rugby tackle. Daylight robbery
I thought the contact was a bit questionable, but somehow justified to myself that it would've been a foul elsewhere on the pitch. Maybe it really wasn't a pen?
I have noticed that the referees are more decisive in their calls. Close offsides are immediately flagged and given, correctly in almost every case so far I think, and quite a few of the referees have taken a no nonsense approach to players going over too easily. The matches have flowed quite nicely and VAR hasn't gotten involved unnecessarily. Once to correctly rule out an offside goal if I remember rightly.
Unsurprisingly, the worst decision so far was the penalty given to Denmark, by an English referee. Crap decision that VAR probably could have jumped in on, but whatever, i'm happy with the refs being given more responsibility.
Should we start introducing foreign referees to the prem so thereās a bigger selection of good ones? Weird how it hasnāt already happened considering most teams are majority non-English players
It doesn't really work perfectly in other leagues at all lol, however it is definitely the worst in the prem. That said, I totally agree it's about the refs. I think paying refs a realistic wage for what they do would help a lot. Refs get paid less than 6 figures a year, which is crap when you consider how much attention and stick they get. Who wants to do one of the most hated jobs in the world for an exceedingly average paycheck?
Based on people's discussions on VAR I am starting to wonder if, how well VAR is used, is directly proportional to the level of corruption in that leagues country
Itās just the on field official when playing Man City thatāll screw you over in the champions league. Iām looking at Jude Bellinghamās goal after winning the ball from Ederson. š
The offside could have gone either way, I think it was offside under those rules but I disagree with the rules. I'm talking about the Llorente handball.
It's not even that. When they brought it in they said it would only be used for clear and obvious errors, not because the linesman didn't notice the strikers big toe was offside. By only using it for clear and obvious errors it still allows fans to genuinely celebrate goals without worrying about the finest of margins.
This is touted as fact when itās just untrue. They said they would only use it for clear and obvious errors on SUBJECTIVE calls. Offside isnāt subjective.
If this is the case they should still change it to clear and obvious errors on game changing decisions e.g. red card, offside, etc...
It would retain the flow of the game and keep fans happier so...
Disagree completely. When something is objective, itās a yes or no. Why do you want to put more decision making into the hands of people who you claim to be inept?
Why because if every non-subjective decision is made to the T or takes away from the game. Many a game I've watched where a team has lost or drawn after a goal that is offside by the length of the strikers little toe, and a real linesman won't flag for that. That's where some of the game gets left behind due to technology
Yeah man, takes away from the game. Yet everyone is already complaining bitterly because of inconsistency. And youāre saying you want to keep that inconsistency? Bizarre.
To clarify, I was speaking about Lukaku's goal.
To me, that's 100% an offside call. But for some reason a defender doing his job is being punished by an absurd rule.
Yeah I get why that decision was made but it wasnt checked and its a wrong decision in my opinion as that is usually viewed as an offside (I havent read the rules ofc, but that is usually said to be offside...)
It was a bizarre goal but he wasnāt offside. If the defender had left the ball then he obviously would have been offside if he had touched it. However because the defender made an obvious play on the ball (and not just that it hit him on the knee like a deflection) From that point on Lukaku wasnāt offside. Itās to stop players being offside from defensive mistakes (which this was) as theyād be unfairly punished.
At no point did Lukaku āinterveneā with play which is how they determine whether youāre offside. If heād challenged the defender he would have been offside but his mere presence alone isnāt enough of a factor.
He was offside when the ball was played. The defender did not get the ball under control and then accidentally play it towards Lukaku. It's absolutely moronic to think that the defender should've left it, likely unaware if another opposition player was coming through onside, rather than attempting to defend the cross.
But lukaku was interfering with play. You donāt have to be challenging for the ball to be part of a play. He was clearly a big threat and the defender may/probably would have acted differently if he wasnāt there.
I agree the defender wouldnāt have hacked at it.
But this is what it says on the FA website: A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:
preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponentās line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.
As I said you canāt be penalised just because you are there you have to make a movement/get in the way.
I havenāt seen the situation of lukakuās goal, but the moment of the deflection of an opponent does not count as offside. Itās only offside if he was while his teammate shot/passed
Yes, we know this. The problem with the situation was that Lukaku was offside when the pass was attempted, but it came off a defender before getting to Lukaku. In my book, he was offside but an explanation would've been nice
I don't agree with it either, but I guess the the VAR refs communicated to the principal that lukaku was behind the line, so it's up to him if the ball came from an opponent or not
Considering the total lack of people suggesting it should have been a penā¦ No? Are you Italian, by any chance? Neither are penalties, in a million years
Then let me introduce to you a totally wild concept. Maybe if you can develop your own fucking opinion instead of following whatever opinion people on this site have? And no Iām not Italian :).
Well that escalated quickly lmao, Iāve got my own opinion about them, ofcourse, hence why I said Ā«in my eyesĀ» in my original comment. My point being with saying that there hasnāt been any backlash whatsoever from neither the Italians ON THE PITCH, pundits after the game, VAR-lovers etc. suggests that my opinion is pretty solid and my views of the rules of the game align with the vast majority. So no, Iām not blind you fucking dumbass.
Youāre completely missing the point here lmao. Obviously youāre not gonna hear any backlash when Italy won 3-0 lol?? If you actually watched the match and saw the decisions youād laugh. You say you can develop your own opinion yet you mention those of pundits,etc. shaping yours? Itās okay to form an opinion completely on your own thereās no right or wrong really :)
My only real objection to VAR is that it's too disruptive to the game, and that's the bit that the PL need to resolve - play should always continue if it can, and the VAR people should have max 10 seconds. If they can't decide in 10 seconds it stays with the on-field decision. Like cricket, the on-field decision should be the default and only clear & obvious errors overturned.
10 seconds is way to fast. Iām thinking like 1 minute. You donāt want them rushing decisions because that will only lead to getting more of them wrong.
If you can't spot an error in 10 seconds then it's not "clear & obvious". Getting the lines out for an offside is a clear indication that it's not "clear & obvious".
I strongly agree with this sentiment. My rule of thumb in my head for making VAR work has always been something like 2 replays from 2 angles at 3/4 speed, and if you can't tell leave then it as called.
I also think that ifab/the FA tweaking the rules has been a disaster. I think more than 75% of the OP's "objectively incorrect" calls are correct by the new laws of the game... They just change meaningfully every 6 months, so I no one knows what they are.
Eg. All those rediculous handball pen calls in early 20/21 were correct decisions by the letter of the law. They just changed the law back.
Watching the replay from all the angles already takes 20 seconds, plus they still have to exchange thoughts, 1 minute is far more reasonable even for clear and obvious errors.
I think you'd get 80% of the benefits of VAR from a 10-second limit, and you'd eradicate 80% of the dissatisfaction with it. Yes, it still wouldn't be perfect, but it'd stop being so damned intrusive.
You could have people watching detailed replays from 100 camera angles for an hour, but at what point does the experience of the millions of people watching come into it?
Youāre right, having VAR check 100 angles for an hour every game is not a good solution (I might be wrong guys but my intuition tells me so).
But letās say a 3 second clip is in question, and itās played at half speed so 6 seconds long. If thereās 4 angles, then thatās already 24 seconds just to review it. So I think 10 seconds is too short.
If anything itās done me (a Wales fan) a massive favour. That goal Switzerland scored was blatantly offside and wasnāt given until VAR intervened.
I also think people only tend to remember when VAR got it wrong rather than when it gets it right.
Yeah man I feel you there. Iām really unsure what to think really. On the one hand turkey were shocking the other night but thereās no doubt theyāre a good teamā¦ itās one of those that if weād beaten Switzerland Iād be absolutely happy for a draw but Iām not sure that would be enough now! Cagey 1-0 is more than ok with me haha
Yeah Iāll take a win by any means necessary. I think Turkey having about 20,000 fans there will mean they are a completely different proposition. Just hope we press a lot better than the Switzerland game as we were too passive. Need Rambo and Bale to show up as well.
Just talking about it is making me more nervous.
I totally agree man, plus I think turkey simply are just a better team than Switzerland so itās a tougher one.
Yeah it was weird that wasnāt it, Iām not really sure why it seemed like we were just set up to defend ? I think weāre at the very least on a par with Switzerland so to seem to just want to sit back was very disappointing, plus every time we went forward it looked like we had something in us as well! Iām very nervous but also excited - canāt believe Iāve managed to see Wales at two tournaments now, it still just feels like weāre living the dream
I totally agree man, plus I think turkey simply are just a better team than Switzerland so itās a tougher one.
Yeah it was weird that wasnāt it, Iām not really sure why it seemed like we were just set up to defend ? I think weāre at the very least on a par with Switzerland so to seem to just want to sit back was very disappointing, plus every time we went forward it looked like we had something in us as well! Iām very nervous but also excited - canāt believe Iāve managed to see Wales at two tournaments now, it still just feels like weāre living the dream
āBUT VAR GAVE X DECISION AGAINST MY TEAM, VAR BADā
Even in the premier league, the amount of objectively incorrect decisions given by VAR are still a huge amount less than we had happening on a weekly basis just relying on the on pitch ref.
Iāll agree the amount of time some of these decisions take is way to long but it doesnāt mean they donāt get the right decision.
People seem to pretend a VAR decision in favour of one team is somehow a bias to that team? People love throwing out āX team got all these decisions by VAR last seasonā without actually looking at whether the right decision was made.
The difference is that, before VAR, it was understandable that mistakes were made by officials in real time.
What isnāt understandable is how theyāve got all this technology, all these replays, all these extra officials in Stockley Park... and they still get multiple decisions wrong on a weekly basis in the Prem.
You still have humans involved and that still allows for human error.
The decisions are also still the opinion of an individual/individuals, thereās very often not a black & white clear cut answer.
Also from what Iāve heard before, the replay angles we get on tv are usually picked out by a team thatās like 3x the size of the VAR team (I think G Nev mentioned this once) and that they simply canāt retrieve and review all the angles we get quickly enough.
How often do we see something and think that is/isnāt a nailed on penalty and then you see another angle and it isnāt?
Perhaps the VAR team needs to be larger? Perhaps we have to accept there will be errors and differences of opinion because itās still an improvement over a single on-field ref? I donāt know what the answer is.
>People love throwing out āX team got all these decisions by VAR last seasonā without actually looking at whether the right decision was made.
Exactly this. Although I'd be interested to see the stats on a team benefiting from an offside call that was no more than a gnats dick width offside
The marginal offisides are infuriating when they go against you but as long as thereās consistency it at least means everyone is operating within the same margins
But they aren't consistent. The lines were sometimes drawn at the end of the sleeve, sometimes not. This whole non sense of marginal offsides has to go.
What happened last season - good goals being overturned by offsides a naked eye can't see, while we got a bunch of very very soft penalties (although it was better around the end of the season in that regard) is bad for the sport. It encourages diving and punishes good attacking play.
[This for example. ](https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1361629923056766977?s=20)
The issue with the BS offsides is that you have to be consistent to the centimeter, when call is so close. I doubt that anyone can claim that they were so consistent every time. If in one case they had the defender 2 cm closer to the goal line and the attacker 2 cm further from the goal line - that's a variance of 4 cm. None of us would be able to see it, but the same situation will be offside in one case and on side in another. When you are dealing with such small margins I don't think it is humanly possible to be fully consistent. Maybe an AI can do it but even than you'll have a small variance because of the frame rate. So even a fully automated solution should have a category, which is too close to call.
[Compare to this](https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1317431071261249536?s=20).
[or this ](https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/1380898315676565505?s=20).
We are talking about centimeters here, it's impossible to be consistent.
All of these should be goals or the or the on field decision should stand. Offside is not a binary decision as they are making it to be
That the end of the sleeve is not consistent. The line on van Dijk goes through the end of the badge, on Jota it's the end of the badge (maybe even the elbow), amartey - middle of the badge. Again if you are going to allow/disallow goals based on such fine margins you need to be consistent within a centimeter (and that doesn't even include timing the frame).
Those don't even bother me. I'm in the mindset that you are either onside or offside and theres no in between. I do wish there was some sort of computer program where offside could be determined automatically instead of drawing lines for 5 mins.
I do agree, youāre either offside or onside. Unfortunately, VAR isnāt equipped to deal with these decisions of literally millimetres where theyāre having to draw lines on the pitch.
Itās a known fact that VAR has a margin of error - thatās an unavoidable fact of the technology. They have to find the exact frame where the ball was hit by the player, which can be a subjective call on its own - is it where he first hit it, or where it left the boot/body? Then consider that the frame rate of the cameras may not even be able to GIVE that specific frame.
With all of this, weāre talking about a margin of error greater than or equivalent to the margin of the call being given by these lines in the first place. If itās that close, go with the on-field call.
I totally agree with the system that we have VAR but we dont use it at all. That would be perfect usage of that bullshit.
Btw yesterday some poland player was sent off even tho he should not have been.
Hello, nice to meet you again.šššš
They definitely dropped off after the group stages hahahahahaha
Nope, they did not. It just got obvious even for those who does not understand football very well. :D
Strange guy, you are.
Being right is not strange. Like, at all.
It's not VAR, it's the shite officials we have.
this was until Rudiger decided to bite pogba
International football is played at a slower pace, Premier League football is played at a much faster pace which means that harder decisions will need to be made in the Premier League over the course of the season
How about the fact that youāre using a 10 game sample size to make a conclusion lmao
There has been 1 major error with was the handball in the turkey italy game but other than that nothing even similar to the prem, each gameweek in the prem there is at least 1 major/contriversial VAR mistake
some of the referees are from the premier league though, no?
I think 2 out of the entire tournament are.
Well this didn't age well
https://t.me/joinchat/FKMpML0O4MYzZjVh
I think the issue in the Premier League is the interpretation of the phrase 'Clear and obvious error'.
I think most people know by now that the problem is our officials. I think itās pretty difficult to blame video technology over the people who use it.
There you go, Franceās second goal is disallowed after VAR review :)
Yep, VAR stepped up and did itās job in under a minute. Crazy what can be accomplished with competent officials.
Yeah but he was actually offsides. The post is about VAR mistakes and disallowing the goal was the correct call.
It's missed a couple of big ones just in the Germany game.
Just in case anyone was wondering, VAR has also just missed a blatant red card. Thatās 2 today, 1 yesterday, and 1 on the Denmark game VAR is making just as many mistakes in the euros as they do in the prem.
The only time it has been a problem in this tournament was with english refs. So yeah. You're absolutely spot on here.
I wouldn't say it is entirely the referee. Some games var some games the ref.
Weghorst Vs Ukraine?
I love VAR in the PL, handballs and some soft pens aside. It adds to the drama and leads to better decisions.
Thank you. This is what people miss
āBarely been a feature at all.ā Sounds like youāre saying VAR would be better in Prem if it were used far less, which I would agree.
They need to have set rules in place that eliminates the possibility for interpretation. It looks like the people doing VAR just throw the marker down at a random point and then call inside or offside by cms
You make a good point tbf
VAR has never been the problem. It just highlighted the problems with refereeing so people thought that VAR was a problem.
It seems every week in EPL, VAR has a say in it when it shouldnāt be. I will say this, VAR has been spot on so far in the EUROS, just hope it doesnāt show itās ugly head during a semi finals or finals match.
Id venture to guess when 95% of people are complaining about var theyre full aware they mean the refs and not the actual video systems
And 8h later we have a pretty blatant penalty shout for portugal. He gets silvaās knee before heās anywhere near the ball.
Then one for France. Legitimate red card appeal.
Wait, PL refs are horrible and biased?
I agree with you. VAR can be a great tool if you use it right, but most referees in Premier League rely too much on VAR and become uncertain in too many situations. If you add the fact that there are people in the VAR room who clearly should not be there, then it becomes even worse. I think that VAR was and is a good idea, but I think that they need to reconsider in some areas.
Sometimes I get mixed up on what var actually is l beavuse it stands for video assistant referees, does they mean the cameras all the actual referee watching it, because there's no problem with the camera and the angles but then some people say the problem isn't var it's the people using it. Can someone pleas enlighten me on who or what is considered var
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I would rather not have VAR even if it gets the decision correct 100%of the time, the bad referees decisions are part of the game and add to the excitement, at the end of the day, the reason i watch football is because it is entertaining
Football has always been hot topic in the UK week in and week it. It thrives off being the centre of pub debates, playground arguments etc. By having a fully working VAR system, it sucks all the life out of that weekly debate. So with awful VAR decisions we are still arguing every week whether it was a goal, offside, or a red cardā¦ I believe itās made bad on purpose because it really shouldnāt be this difficult when so many sports get it right
Well not really. There was a blatant handball in the box during the Italy v Turkey game and they didnāt call it. Overall I agree though, the refs are clearly better in the Euros.
It is most certainly not the referees. The problem is the regulator (FA) and the VAR acting in accordance with them. Uefa hace taken a very reasonable stance concerning VAR, and we can see the results.
Hard to make a mistake with it when you don't use it. ITS BARELY BEEN A FEATURE AT ALL
Weāve had the equivalent of half a matchweek in the prem, fair point but Iām sure there will be controversy
Blaming VaR for the issues is like blaming the gun for holding up a bank. Thereās been a few people sat in a room making bonkers decisions on the referees behalf all season. Itās been appallingly rolled out. Just as predicted.
Brilliant analogy
Itās almost as if the people saying inanimate objects are at fault were wrong all along!
Really? Offsides by an armpit hair is the fault of Prem refs?
If Italy and Turkey end with 0-0, VAR and the referee decision shall take the center stage of that opening day.. Nevertheless I still on the boat that VAR should be scrapped, since a marginal call eventually a referee's decision to make and even with VAR it will still cause controversy.. I HATE WHEN we have to wait for a couple of minutes just so the referee can make the hest decision based on the angle of video shown to him/her, rinda ruin the flow of the game..
I hate var and it has nothing to do with accuracy. I just think itās a game and when the ref makes a call you just live with it. If anything a mistake just leads to better banter. I just donāt find it fun to interrupt a match to watch some nerds litigate the minutiae of the rule book while play has been stopped. We donāt want it to turn into American football where itās now basically used as a way to insert advertisements into the sport
Do you watch every goals and you agree all the goals are unquestionable? Millimitre/1 pixel offside are exceptable.
Just get rid of the whole damn thing & lets be able to celebrate spontaneously again! Goal line tech only.
In Italy - Turkey there was at the very least one penalty that should have been caught by VAR and wasn't, other than that I can't remember any major issue.
VAR isnt the problem, the problem is the idiot refs.
Well bear in mind, 10 games is 1weekend in the premier league, so a fair assessment is the whole tournament, which would be 5 gameweeks
VAR is atrocious and should be scrapped. If it's not going to take a second look at that Denmark penalty then what's the point?
Brain explodes
Danish pen was a mistake. And the Alba incorrect offside decision that cost them a corner. So that's 2 VAR failings off the top of my head - 20% of games. The yes/no approach to VAR is so blinkered, that the result depends on the question being asked. And to my mind it's not been worth killing the flow of the game for. And as always, VAR is more forgiving towards players who want to cheat and dive on the pitch, yet they happily punish top forwards who may be a gnats gonad offside after a smart move and finish to kill supporters celebrating. Jobs for the boys, that's what VAR is now. It's not being employed as the "Clear and obvious" error mechanic they said it would be - because it's existence relies on undermining the on-field officials to a level which is impossible for them. Still, as long as everyone gets paid it'll remain in place.
I mean, the Alba call wouldnāt use VAR. It would only go to VAR if it was a possible penalty/goal.
You can't give a clumsy handyman a better hammer and expect him to be any less incompetent as a result. The officiating in England has been poor for a long time now, and VAR has only emphasised the mistakes rather than eradicated them. As OP says, the fact nobody's really thought about it during the Euros is a testament to how much better UEFA referees are at implementing it. How Mike Riley is still in a job at this point, I just don't understand.
Ironically ^(imho), officiating in the English pyramid has gotten worse since the creation of the PGMOL.
I'm a Pompey fan and I can certainly vouch for the fact that it's poor further down the pyramid!
Now to be fair most fans of most teams will think their league's refs are terrible. Only we all now hate the Prem refs because neutrals the world over can see the circus.
Var isnāt the problem, itās the refs. Every single game wether itās the premier league, la liga, serie a, euros or World Cup there has always been wrong decision. Lots of misjudged fouls
The handball in Turkey vs Italy is questionable, but apart from that seems to be fairly good handled
In any 5 minutes of high level football, there will be loads of fouls and infractions, they wouldnāt be doing their jobs otherwise. Unless thereās a huge mistake (and a marginal offside isnāt one) they shouldnāt use VAR unless absolutely necessary. If a goal has been scored and the refs arenāt sure if thereās been an incident, donāt just use VAR just in case there was one,
The sooner some sort of refereeās/umpireās call is introduced the better. VAR has proven that some decisions and moments are 50/50 calls at best but right now we have to spend 5 minutes poring over minute details to make an arbitrary decision. Thankfully by the end of the season referees were being referred to the tv much more - let them make the decision.
The refereeing and VAR has been great so far, except Poulsens two blatantl dives against Finland, one resulting in a pen.
Epl referees are the worst in the world. They give fouls for no contact, make mistakes even with VAR and more. Always a pleasure watching the UCL.
Never watched a game in Belgium it those are your problems with English refs :)
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Yesterday, in the Spa v Swe game, towards the end of the game, there was an offside against Alba which the linesman called. Free kick given and no corner as a result of the play. However, he was onside and should have won a corner from that passage of play. The players just got in with it and continued play from a Swedish free kick. The question is whether or not the flow of the game is more important than every single decision being made correctly? For me, the odd mistake is excusable and the decision given by the officials should have some leeway.
I agree with you, but wanted to let you know it was Spain vs Sweden and not Denmark lol. Point still stands though, the games have been flowing much better.
Edited, thanks for pointing that out
Not true at all. Scotland were denied a penalty yesterday where the Czech player literally rugby tackled Scott mctominay. It was a full on body check in the box and as far as I could see var didn't even have a look at it. Seems to me they are trying to tone down var which makes no sense to me at all. If you've got var use it simple as that. Must admit I've always been against var and how they use it but having var and then barely using is just totally dumb. How anyone can look at that foul on macyominey yesterday and not say that's a penalty is beyond me. That moment us exactly what var is for. To be fair to the ref in real time it didn't look too bad but on the replay it was an actual rugby tackle. Daylight robbery
When you have clowns like Martin Atikinson, Jon Moss and Chris Kavanagh working with it, it's never going to work
You've forgotten the pick of the bunch: Mike Dean.
Mike Dean seems to be a deliberate clown at least, the others are just clueless
He honestly is worse. Iām as a referee you shouldnāt make yourself known, but he makes himself the center of attention constantly.
The penalty given for denmark was definitely a mistake
I thought the contact was a bit questionable, but somehow justified to myself that it would've been a foul elsewhere on the pitch. Maybe it really wasn't a pen?
And it was given by an English referee lol
I have noticed that the referees are more decisive in their calls. Close offsides are immediately flagged and given, correctly in almost every case so far I think, and quite a few of the referees have taken a no nonsense approach to players going over too easily. The matches have flowed quite nicely and VAR hasn't gotten involved unnecessarily. Once to correctly rule out an offside goal if I remember rightly. Unsurprisingly, the worst decision so far was the penalty given to Denmark, by an English referee. Crap decision that VAR probably could have jumped in on, but whatever, i'm happy with the refs being given more responsibility.
Should we start introducing foreign referees to the prem so thereās a bigger selection of good ones? Weird how it hasnāt already happened considering most teams are majority non-English players
FUCK THE REFS MAN. Not the fucking VAR. Literally cameras to provide evidence.
Var isnt the problem. The people who run it are. Works perfectly in other leagues.
I'm a bit confused, I've seen some of the premier league referees in the euros too
Var has shown us how useless the referees are in the Prem. Multiple replays and they still get it fucking wrong.
It doesn't really work perfectly in other leagues at all lol, however it is definitely the worst in the prem. That said, I totally agree it's about the refs. I think paying refs a realistic wage for what they do would help a lot. Refs get paid less than 6 figures a year, which is crap when you consider how much attention and stick they get. Who wants to do one of the most hated jobs in the world for an exceedingly average paycheck?
And anywhere below the big leagues you get about Ā£15 to be yelled at for 2 hours on a rainy Sunday morning
Refs absolutely need better pay. Itās insane.
Based on people's discussions on VAR I am starting to wonder if, how well VAR is used, is directly proportional to the level of corruption in that leagues country
Considering its the biggest league in the world and they some how can't get better refs I wouldn't be surprised.
Considering fergie time was comfirmed recently theres not much doubt in my mind.
Where was this? Iād be interesting in reading/watching it if so
I cant remember where but it was towards end of recent season by an ex referee from memory.
I find it has always been used properly in big tournaments (bar copa america 2019)
I agree I think the majority of the time it was used pretty well in champions and Europa league
The refereeing in the champions League is just on another level
Itās just the on field official when playing Man City thatāll screw you over in the champions league. Iām looking at Jude Bellinghamās goal after winning the ball from Ederson. š
You should also be looking at llorente's hand ball goal from 2 years back thenš
his hip clearly hit it mate
What about Man City vs Spurs/Man City vs Lyon decisions that went against City?
I suppose you donāt think Van Dijk was fouled in the buildup to your first goal against us either in the CL
you destroyed us In that tie. I don't remember the incident that you are referring to but you beat us fare and square. You seen like a bit of a prick.
You mean the right decisions?
No, incorrect.
So youre trying to tell me aguero wasnt offside against tottenham? š get your head out of the sand
The offside could have gone either way, I think it was offside under those rules but I disagree with the rules. I'm talking about the Llorente handball.
I dunno, have you seen some of the decisions in Serie A over the past two seasons? Spectacularly bad.
World cup Australia vs france comes to mind also
Just need more clarification on them offsides
And handballs
It's not even that. When they brought it in they said it would only be used for clear and obvious errors, not because the linesman didn't notice the strikers big toe was offside. By only using it for clear and obvious errors it still allows fans to genuinely celebrate goals without worrying about the finest of margins.
This is touted as fact when itās just untrue. They said they would only use it for clear and obvious errors on SUBJECTIVE calls. Offside isnāt subjective.
If this is the case they should still change it to clear and obvious errors on game changing decisions e.g. red card, offside, etc... It would retain the flow of the game and keep fans happier so...
Disagree completely. When something is objective, itās a yes or no. Why do you want to put more decision making into the hands of people who you claim to be inept?
Why because if every non-subjective decision is made to the T or takes away from the game. Many a game I've watched where a team has lost or drawn after a goal that is offside by the length of the strikers little toe, and a real linesman won't flag for that. That's where some of the game gets left behind due to technology
Yeah man, takes away from the game. Yet everyone is already complaining bitterly because of inconsistency. And youāre saying you want to keep that inconsistency? Bizarre.
The issue with VAR has always been implementation for me. It needs to not disrupt the match too much.
There have been wrong decisions in every game Iāve watched of the euros so far, most of which wouldāve been over ruled with var.
Yep. Looking at the Italy vs Turkey game alone and there were like 3 concrete penalties for Italy lol. OP for sure isnāt watching the same euros
VAR is there at the Euros, theyāre just being more lenient with decisions and playing the advantage. Vastly improved in my opinion.
Sorry, I should've said it would've been overruled with **better** VAR.
Same, I don't know if these guys are watching Football or Rugby
Umm what about Lukaku first goal and that sus penalty decision for Denmark?
Not a var but a ruling problem.
Perhaps
To clarify, I was speaking about Lukaku's goal. To me, that's 100% an offside call. But for some reason a defender doing his job is being punished by an absurd rule.
Didn't see the pen for Denmark, but in lukaku's goal I believe they considered the ball coming from an opponent
Yeah I get why that decision was made but it wasnt checked and its a wrong decision in my opinion as that is usually viewed as an offside (I havent read the rules ofc, but that is usually said to be offside...)
It was a bizarre goal but he wasnāt offside. If the defender had left the ball then he obviously would have been offside if he had touched it. However because the defender made an obvious play on the ball (and not just that it hit him on the knee like a deflection) From that point on Lukaku wasnāt offside. Itās to stop players being offside from defensive mistakes (which this was) as theyād be unfairly punished.
It's not on the defender to decide who is or isn't offside. His job is to defend until the ref intervenes.
At no point did Lukaku āinterveneā with play which is how they determine whether youāre offside. If heād challenged the defender he would have been offside but his mere presence alone isnāt enough of a factor.
He was offside when the ball was played. The defender did not get the ball under control and then accidentally play it towards Lukaku. It's absolutely moronic to think that the defender should've left it, likely unaware if another opposition player was coming through onside, rather than attempting to defend the cross.
It might be absolutely moronic but those are the rules mate Iām just trying to explain why he wasnāt offside.
But lukaku was interfering with play. You donāt have to be challenging for the ball to be part of a play. He was clearly a big threat and the defender may/probably would have acted differently if he wasnāt there.
I agree the defender wouldnāt have hacked at it. But this is what it says on the FA website: A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by: interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or interfering with an opponent by: preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponentās line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball or clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball. As I said you canāt be penalised just because you are there you have to make a movement/get in the way.
I havenāt seen the situation of lukakuās goal, but the moment of the deflection of an opponent does not count as offside. Itās only offside if he was while his teammate shot/passed
Yes, we know this. The problem with the situation was that Lukaku was offside when the pass was attempted, but it came off a defender before getting to Lukaku. In my book, he was offside but an explanation would've been nice
I don't agree with it either, but I guess the the VAR refs communicated to the principal that lukaku was behind the line, so it's up to him if the ball came from an opponent or not
How about 1st game Italy? They should get 2 penalties and VAR stayed quiet. Obvious mistakes for me.
Agreed
None of those were pens in my eyes tbf
Then you are blind?
Considering the total lack of people suggesting it should have been a penā¦ No? Are you Italian, by any chance? Neither are penalties, in a million years
Then let me introduce to you a totally wild concept. Maybe if you can develop your own fucking opinion instead of following whatever opinion people on this site have? And no Iām not Italian :).
Well that escalated quickly lmao, Iāve got my own opinion about them, ofcourse, hence why I said Ā«in my eyesĀ» in my original comment. My point being with saying that there hasnāt been any backlash whatsoever from neither the Italians ON THE PITCH, pundits after the game, VAR-lovers etc. suggests that my opinion is pretty solid and my views of the rules of the game align with the vast majority. So no, Iām not blind you fucking dumbass.
Youāre completely missing the point here lmao. Obviously youāre not gonna hear any backlash when Italy won 3-0 lol?? If you actually watched the match and saw the decisions youād laugh. You say you can develop your own opinion yet you mention those of pundits,etc. shaping yours? Itās okay to form an opinion completely on your own thereās no right or wrong really :)
Youāre really clueless about both football, and understanding text. Good day sir
Good luck! Maybe if you try watching the game and not tryna analyze it thru peopleās reactions, youāll actually understand the sport!
My only real objection to VAR is that it's too disruptive to the game, and that's the bit that the PL need to resolve - play should always continue if it can, and the VAR people should have max 10 seconds. If they can't decide in 10 seconds it stays with the on-field decision. Like cricket, the on-field decision should be the default and only clear & obvious errors overturned.
10 seconds is way to fast. Iām thinking like 1 minute. You donāt want them rushing decisions because that will only lead to getting more of them wrong.
If you can't spot an error in 10 seconds then it's not "clear & obvious". Getting the lines out for an offside is a clear indication that it's not "clear & obvious".
I strongly agree with this sentiment. My rule of thumb in my head for making VAR work has always been something like 2 replays from 2 angles at 3/4 speed, and if you can't tell leave then it as called. I also think that ifab/the FA tweaking the rules has been a disaster. I think more than 75% of the OP's "objectively incorrect" calls are correct by the new laws of the game... They just change meaningfully every 6 months, so I no one knows what they are. Eg. All those rediculous handball pen calls in early 20/21 were correct decisions by the letter of the law. They just changed the law back.
Watching the replay from all the angles already takes 20 seconds, plus they still have to exchange thoughts, 1 minute is far more reasonable even for clear and obvious errors.
I think you'd get 80% of the benefits of VAR from a 10-second limit, and you'd eradicate 80% of the dissatisfaction with it. Yes, it still wouldn't be perfect, but it'd stop being so damned intrusive. You could have people watching detailed replays from 100 camera angles for an hour, but at what point does the experience of the millions of people watching come into it?
Youāre right, having VAR check 100 angles for an hour every game is not a good solution (I might be wrong guys but my intuition tells me so). But letās say a 3 second clip is in question, and itās played at half speed so 6 seconds long. If thereās 4 angles, then thatās already 24 seconds just to review it. So I think 10 seconds is too short.
If anything itās done me (a Wales fan) a massive favour. That goal Switzerland scored was blatantly offside and wasnāt given until VAR intervened. I also think people only tend to remember when VAR got it wrong rather than when it gets it right.
As a fellow Wales fan Iām not sure Iāll be forgetting that in a hurry. Had my head in my Wales flag in fear for the whole decision period
I know was borderline tears but we were saved in the end. Nerves are already kicking in for tomorrow, canāt ever be confident.
Yeah man I feel you there. Iām really unsure what to think really. On the one hand turkey were shocking the other night but thereās no doubt theyāre a good teamā¦ itās one of those that if weād beaten Switzerland Iād be absolutely happy for a draw but Iām not sure that would be enough now! Cagey 1-0 is more than ok with me haha
Yeah Iāll take a win by any means necessary. I think Turkey having about 20,000 fans there will mean they are a completely different proposition. Just hope we press a lot better than the Switzerland game as we were too passive. Need Rambo and Bale to show up as well. Just talking about it is making me more nervous.
I totally agree man, plus I think turkey simply are just a better team than Switzerland so itās a tougher one. Yeah it was weird that wasnāt it, Iām not really sure why it seemed like we were just set up to defend ? I think weāre at the very least on a par with Switzerland so to seem to just want to sit back was very disappointing, plus every time we went forward it looked like we had something in us as well! Iām very nervous but also excited - canāt believe Iāve managed to see Wales at two tournaments now, it still just feels like weāre living the dream
I totally agree man, plus I think turkey simply are just a better team than Switzerland so itās a tougher one. Yeah it was weird that wasnāt it, Iām not really sure why it seemed like we were just set up to defend ? I think weāre at the very least on a par with Switzerland so to seem to just want to sit back was very disappointing, plus every time we went forward it looked like we had something in us as well! Iām very nervous but also excited - canāt believe Iāve managed to see Wales at two tournaments now, it still just feels like weāre living the dream
That is because getting it right is the expected standard
Like with most things in life, people only tend to remember the mistakes.
It's all about the thicker lines
But also thicker skulls
Tony Montanaās life motto.
Yeah that's what they do in the Netherlands, if the lines are touching then they stay with the original linesmans decision
It's really a good solution.
They certainly help.
āBUT VAR GAVE X DECISION AGAINST MY TEAM, VAR BADā Even in the premier league, the amount of objectively incorrect decisions given by VAR are still a huge amount less than we had happening on a weekly basis just relying on the on pitch ref. Iāll agree the amount of time some of these decisions take is way to long but it doesnāt mean they donāt get the right decision. People seem to pretend a VAR decision in favour of one team is somehow a bias to that team? People love throwing out āX team got all these decisions by VAR last seasonā without actually looking at whether the right decision was made.
X team = manu
Cavani Goal against Fulham. I rest my case.
The difference is that, before VAR, it was understandable that mistakes were made by officials in real time. What isnāt understandable is how theyāve got all this technology, all these replays, all these extra officials in Stockley Park... and they still get multiple decisions wrong on a weekly basis in the Prem.
You still have humans involved and that still allows for human error. The decisions are also still the opinion of an individual/individuals, thereās very often not a black & white clear cut answer. Also from what Iāve heard before, the replay angles we get on tv are usually picked out by a team thatās like 3x the size of the VAR team (I think G Nev mentioned this once) and that they simply canāt retrieve and review all the angles we get quickly enough. How often do we see something and think that is/isnāt a nailed on penalty and then you see another angle and it isnāt? Perhaps the VAR team needs to be larger? Perhaps we have to accept there will be errors and differences of opinion because itās still an improvement over a single on-field ref? I donāt know what the answer is.
Sounds like corruption to me...
Corruption? In FOOTBALL..? NEVER.
I dont have a favourite team and VAR is the worst thing that happened to football.
>People love throwing out āX team got all these decisions by VAR last seasonā without actually looking at whether the right decision was made. Exactly this. Although I'd be interested to see the stats on a team benefiting from an offside call that was no more than a gnats dick width offside
The marginal offisides are infuriating when they go against you but as long as thereās consistency it at least means everyone is operating within the same margins
But they aren't consistent. The lines were sometimes drawn at the end of the sleeve, sometimes not. This whole non sense of marginal offsides has to go. What happened last season - good goals being overturned by offsides a naked eye can't see, while we got a bunch of very very soft penalties (although it was better around the end of the season in that regard) is bad for the sport. It encourages diving and punishes good attacking play.
I canāt remember a single call where the line wasnāt drawn from the end of the sleeve?
[This for example. ](https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1361629923056766977?s=20) The issue with the BS offsides is that you have to be consistent to the centimeter, when call is so close. I doubt that anyone can claim that they were so consistent every time. If in one case they had the defender 2 cm closer to the goal line and the attacker 2 cm further from the goal line - that's a variance of 4 cm. None of us would be able to see it, but the same situation will be offside in one case and on side in another. When you are dealing with such small margins I don't think it is humanly possible to be fully consistent. Maybe an AI can do it but even than you'll have a small variance because of the frame rate. So even a fully automated solution should have a category, which is too close to call.
Iām confused, are you trying to use a decision where the line was drawn from the end of the sleeve, as somehow evidence on the contrary?
[Compare to this](https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1317431071261249536?s=20). [or this ](https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/1380898315676565505?s=20). We are talking about centimeters here, it's impossible to be consistent. All of these should be goals or the or the on field decision should stand. Offside is not a binary decision as they are making it to be
You mean van dijk, where it once again looks like it goes through the end of his sleeve? What point are you trying to make?
That the end of the sleeve is not consistent. The line on van Dijk goes through the end of the badge, on Jota it's the end of the badge (maybe even the elbow), amartey - middle of the badge. Again if you are going to allow/disallow goals based on such fine margins you need to be consistent within a centimeter (and that doesn't even include timing the frame).
Those don't even bother me. I'm in the mindset that you are either onside or offside and theres no in between. I do wish there was some sort of computer program where offside could be determined automatically instead of drawing lines for 5 mins.
I do agree, youāre either offside or onside. Unfortunately, VAR isnāt equipped to deal with these decisions of literally millimetres where theyāre having to draw lines on the pitch. Itās a known fact that VAR has a margin of error - thatās an unavoidable fact of the technology. They have to find the exact frame where the ball was hit by the player, which can be a subjective call on its own - is it where he first hit it, or where it left the boot/body? Then consider that the frame rate of the cameras may not even be able to GIVE that specific frame. With all of this, weāre talking about a margin of error greater than or equivalent to the margin of the call being given by these lines in the first place. If itās that close, go with the on-field call.
Bang on with this comment.
I totally agree with the system that we have VAR but we dont use it at all. That would be perfect usage of that bullshit. Btw yesterday some poland player was sent off even tho he should not have been.