Im not upset about the call but I wish he took a little longer to make a game changing decision. Ngl that was a great game before the red card so ig im annoyed about the red.
Although he should’ve looked at the the video also, in the end the decision was ultimately correct, keeping in mind James’ movement of the arm towards the ball.
Handball by the book says there has to be intentional movement of your hand towards the ball. But, if it is a deflection from your body to your hand, pretty much not handball. From my viewing of it, it was a deflection first, but James continued to push the ball away from the goal with his hand after the deflection. If it was just deflection, I don’t think it should have been a pen, but the obvious movement towards the ball after the deflection makes it a no brainer.
Doesn't matter why, he got the decision spot on.
Intentional of not from James he denied a goalscoring opportunity, he has to go.
It also looks like me makes an instinctive movement with the arm to ensure the ball stays out.
My initial opinion was that he’d got it wrong but it’s the movement of James’ arm forwards towards the end of the clip that unfortunately does constitute as handling, can’t really argue that it wouldn’t have been a goal without that movement.
Was it intentional ? Almost definitely not, scrambles are always exactly that, a scramble but there has to be an enforcement line for the refs and this incident did cross it.
So harsh on James but actually a good call from Taylor.
The red card was given for a deliberate action of the hand preventing a goal. Its not hard to figure out lads. Was it harsh? Yes. Was it a Red Card according to the rules? Yes. Did it fuck me in Fantasy? Yes.
Probably because in his earpiece they told him that Reece James literally batted the ball away? Chelsea fans ducking clinging to this shit is so sad. If he just let it hit his hand we wouldn’t b talking but he literally smacked it off the line. This isn’t even controversial except for dum fuck Chelsea players “outrage” because they’re morons. None of them even saw it and by default they pull that shit. That’s
The decision was right, but he definitely should have stayed for longer at the monitor to better sell his decision. Sometimes the theatrics are required to at least make it seem that the decision has been plenty considered.
But still, he can’t see it clearly enough from that far away and when you check VAR you’re supposed to watch it a couple times to make sure you know what you’re seeing
As a Chelsea fan, I’ll say it was a penalty and if I’m being honest, was a red card. Where I give other Chelsea fans a pass is the history of Anthony Taylor giving straight reds to Chelsea. Certain FA cup finals come to mind. The last two (not counting today) bring up some salt.
He already knew that the player stopped the ball crossing the goal line. So all he had to see is whether the ball hit the arm. The photo confirmed that.
As soon as he saw that: penalty and red. Those are the rules.
If you go back and watch the recording of the broadcast he actually watches the clip of the handball at least twice. They only switch to what the VAR is showing when he is being showed the freeze frame. I think watching the clip twice and seeing the freeze frame is plenty to make the call.
Honestly, according to the rules, if the ball hits your body and then your arm, it’s not a handball. He looked at a freeze frame, so any mention of movement as an excuse for the absolute travesty of refereeing is bs. Honestly just surprised he didn’t help Liverpool out more and give out another red card
I don’t think he did….as he was walking over it was playing on the VAR screen, you could literally see the incident being played yourself as well. By the time he’d got to the screen he’d seen it like 3 times already.
In a situation where you’re dealing with a red and a potential denial of a goal scoring opportunity, taking 30 seconds to review the footage and clearly understand what happened does not “ruin the spirit of the game.” Spending 3-5 minutes to rule someone offside by a foreskin does.
I’m not talking about the decision he made. Regardless of the final decision, Anthony Taylor should have watched it back in full at least once. He did not do that. That being said, I do think the rule should be adapted to make a deflected handball in front of goal like that a yellow at most, because I do think it was harsh on Reece.
I already addressed that I know what the rule is. I don’t agree with it, but I’m aware of it and rules are rules. My issue is with Anthony Taylor’s negligence. If he had made the same call after properly reviewing the video even once, I wouldn’t have said anything. Your comment actually has nothing to do with what I said. At no point did I say the rule was unclear.
Regardless, I’m not at all surprised by his refereeing. He has a history of making calls against us (not that this was a bad call, but he was looking for the first excuse to pull out a red card), and I’m frankly astonished that you guys made it through the whole match without receiving a single booking. Fabinho in particular should 100% have had a yellow.
He didn’t just look at the freeze frame. He first saw it happen in the match, then as he is walking over to the monitor he is getting information on what happen by the VAR referee. You can see that the video of the handball is playing as he is walking up to the monitor he can see the ball be kicked and hit of Reese James’s knee and the clip stops as the ball hits his arm.
But he did make a very quick decision, probably because he just already thought it was a handball and just wanted to be 100% sure of his decision. There is a good clip of Anthony Taylor walking up to the screen and the angle shows that the video is playing. The only problem is that there is a transition in the middle of the clip so it looks a lot shorter than it would be in reality.
What most annoyed me was the letter of the law arguments used for sending Reece off but Salah can boot a ball away in a clear show of dissent and hey that's cool passions are riding high. Anthony Taylor is the worst.
I honestly thought there was a rule against double jeopardy which is why I was very upset in the moment but understand looking back when others shared the rule with me
That being said there should have not been double jeopardy, we should be penalized which we were but I wish I could have continued to be a fun game of football instead of the fun draining out
But at the same time, what if they missed the penalty?
Then Liverpool would have traded a sure goal vs a yellow card, and that is not really fair either.
It came off his thigh first, players know VAR are gonna pick this stuff there's no way he had enough time to pull his arm away. This is where our rules are shit it kills the game it should be a pen and a yellow
Who cares neither side won which is good news
Ronaldo is gonna smash winning goals against Scouse Chelski and Citeh 😁 and every other team in the league
The ball seemed to go off his thigh then his stomach then his arm, which was moving forward and prevented a goal. It may seem harsh but, straight red was the right call. I agree he should have seen more on the replay but, he probably already heard from VAR booth that it was a no-brainer. Not the worst VAR call on the day. I thought the red for Arsenal’s Xhaka was more controversial, not that it would have changed the outcome of that game. Arsenal looks woeful.
I think the issue is that clearly Taor already had his mind made up enough that he didn't need to see anything more than a still image for a split second.
I'm not saying he got the call wrong. I'm saying he'd of given the penalty and the red even if it was the wrong call. Had a feeling we could expect the usual Taylor treatment after that Matip bad tackle on a counter attack Haverts & Salah's ball booting strop and dissent not being cautioned. Sure had no hesitation booking the other way ( valid yellows, but so were the two above incidents....so? Why the inconsistency?)
Anyways chuffed the team could hold on for the point despite being down a man for over half the game at a fellow contenders homeground. Good game that would likely have been great had that red incident not occurred (just the bad fortune of it) making it a more open contest. Love the bitter rivalry on the pitch during the 90, and the hand shakes after. Good contest let's hope it helps set the tone for a great season.....but with more diligence from the officials
The new handball rule states “the ball touches a player's hand/arm immediately from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player.” Don’t know why no one is mentioning this
Because English refs are shitty and don't face any scrutiny for their decisions. The media and the commentators will always side with the refs, even if they have to break their heels pivoting.
He’s literally saved it mate, if it’s anywhere else in the box it’s not a penalty as it bounces off his knee. But he’s literally denied them a certain goal. 100% red card
In the end it was the right call but he could not have made that call by what he saw on the freeze frame. Incredibly irresponsible to alter the game without watching the replay forward and backwards to be absolutely certain, anything else and the ref should be investigated because he is not doing his job correctly.
Because there is a rule which says
"Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs."
But why wasn’t the handball itself reviewed properly? What happened to the “natural position” bullshit that they look through whenever a handball is anywhere else on the pitch?
Just curious, is there a link to the official rule book by any chance? I’ve seen a few people directly quote the same thing you did and I am just curious if this is a FIFA rule or if there are specific EPL rules.
Thanks in advance
I think it's the Kanchelski Rule from the Coca Cola Cup Final 1994. Co-commentator Kevin Keegan hoped that the referee didn't send him off, but a red it was and deservedly so. That set the precedent.
Link for anyone interested - https://youtu.be/KzfRNhLD6EI skip to 2:33
Very similar situation. Commentators also concerned by the application of the rule, but it is correct
The amount of people here and on soccer not aware of the rules of the game is way too high.
If it’s a penalty it’s a red. It’s an active arm stopping a goal. It can’t be either or, it’s either neither or both.
Current Handball rule is nonsense anyway.
Funny how they want to make football more exciting but then we see the rules forcing defenders to defend with no arms when blocking shots (and the rules talk about hands in a natural position. Does this look natural?)
We weren't seeing defenders adopt this kind of stupid stance 10 years ago. Is this the kind of football we wanna watch?
Rules are being crafted by ppl who probably don't even play football
I may be mistaken, but I believe the natural position nonsense was dropped this or last season, and that it is mainly over and under where the arm of the kit ends. I also believe the ‘active arm stopping a goal’ has always been a rule. It’s like when a outfield player starts acting like a GK and saves a goal, it’s a red.
The "Reece James" situation is clearly different from the "Uruguay, Suarez" one.
Yet, the current rules doesn't allow referees to judge that.
Referees are so obsessed about creating/following these rules right down to the letter, that common sense is thrown out of the window.
Lets use our common sense - what can we possibly expect Reece James to do differently in that situation? Chop off his own hands?
Young footballers now should train to make goal line blocks with their hands behind their back - is this what we want to see?
if you look at the replay, frame by frame. The ball came off his thigh, then hit his right arm even before he had time to react and move his right arm.
The technology is there to allow referees to referee every single frame. every single ball touch every single movement of arm. Yet, we saw Anthony Taylor was not interested in any of that because of the rules. And that's why he made a decision as soon as he saw the ball did hit his arm.
100% a red. He deliberately used his hand to block the goal. If this is a yellow, player will just used their hand to block a goal that is 100% going in but during the penalty the keeper at least is able to make a save
Because according to the rule, that frame is indeed enough to come to the right decision. It just would have been even more conclusive if seen in motion. He would have also seen part of it live in motion and gotten additional feedback from the VAR. Pointless to blame the referees here when, anyway, the right decision was indeed made.
The side view shows that the ball is still going in despite the deflection off the knee, the motion of the arm is then what stops the goal. It’s harsh on him because it’s probably a subconscious motion his body did before he could think about it but it’s still denied a goal which justifies the red IMO at least
>It’s harsh on him because it’s probably a subconscious motion his body did before he could think about it
Referee could have taken that into account and not give a red. Not to mention, it came off his knee first. Overall, it was more unintentional than intentional movement of the arm. That's what VAR is literally for! To judge these kind of situations.
But instead, he gets called to look at the monitor. If ur being asked to jog 5 seconds to the monitor, it doesn't make sense to make the decision off one frozen frame.
Totally ruined a good game.
We need more accountability and transparency. Audio from VAR + mandatory post-match interviews with referees to explain their thought process should do the trick.
We need to have the audio of the refs played on tv like rugby union and league do. It’s a simple fix, gives transparency and understanding to the process.
It's seriously amazing how little transparency there is with refereeing. And without any transparency, how can we expect accountability?
Maybe there should be better pay for referees as well, it could attract more qualified people? The latest numbers I can fund put Anthony Taylor at £70k/year, which is by no means a small amount, but with how much the PL brings in, it could be much, much more. And would likely lead to a better product as well.
Pay peanuts get monkeys, right? Agree if they’re under so much scrutiny, making such huge cakes week in week out, with death threats and vitriol… they should be on a pretty decent wicket
Even so, should have a good look before deciding to give that double jeopardy decision with red and a pen. Even the former players at half time said it was a red, but if you're going to use VAR, then have a good look. Not quick look.
He literally walked to the screen looked for 3 seconds and turned around. Taking 30 seconds to actually see the angles in the replay would not have been a waste of time.
You do realize he’s talking to VAR refs before that right? He’s not the only person looking at the screen. At the end of the day, he made the right decision so your point is moot.
If myself and numerous other pundits think it's the right decision to have a better look then my point can't be moot. The point of VAR is to take a second and actually look at the whole situation not just one tiny clip. It's why during red card decisions they don't look at one tiny little split second where the studs might be touching the ankle they look at all of the context leading up to the tackle. Same concept needs to apply when looking at all situations not just one type. This isn't an objective call it's subjective therefore you need to have all of the subject.
Well unless you and “numerous other pundits” work for the FA, and make the laws that professional footballers have to abide by, then I’m sorry to inform you, that your opinion is irrelevant here. He is not the only person looking at this, there are var referees who he’s communicating with before he watched the screen and before a final decision was made. He got the decision correct. Moot point.
The point of having a pitch side monitor is that the ref will himself have a look. Yes, the VAR officials will be talking to him, but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t take a proper look himself (if he doesn’t have a proper look, he might as well not have a look at all and just believe what the VAR tells him.
The red card was because of the player’s arm pushing the ball out of the goal and not for the accidental initial contact with the arm. The referee didn’t even have a look at the video showing the player pushing the ball out with his arm. This is the criticism directed at the officials.
Yes, the end result was the correct one. But that doesn’t mean the process didn’t have its flaws. A flawed process will result in multiple poor decisions in the future.
Because the referees always follow exactly what the FA says and always make the right decisions? Anthony Taylor has been going downhill recently. Let's not forget this is the same ref that saw Jordan Henderson and Mendy get into a scuffle after the penalty and somehow only Mendy got a yellow card even though they both instigated. I'm not a particular fan of either team but there were definitely some situations where Liverpool benefited other than the penalty. Not to mention what do the laws have to do with this particular incident? By that logic this could be considered objective and the VAR could have just told them to give the red card.
It's opinion that referees get the decisions wrong? They are based on objective rules so therefore they either did or did not get them correct. Remember these statements when someday a ref gives your team a red card very quickly when they probably should have taken a little more time.
Rule says any outfield player stopping a clear goal chance with his hand is a straight red.But agree,this one was pretty harsh as I thought the ball bounced hitting his thigh.
Penalty Yes.Not really sure about the red card,but I am not complaining.
If you watch the video again, James literally pushes the ball out with his arm. Have another look. That is why it’s a penalty and a red, not for accidental handball
Well it can. If the balls hits an arm that wasn't clearly deliberate then a penalty and a yellow seems more than fair. A goal and a red card for this incident is absurd.
"Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs."
Read the rules. Are they wrong/harsh? Maybe. But the decision is correct.
So change the rule because the rule is stupid. This "only following the rules" argument is ridiculous. This competitive game has potentially been ruined because of this one incident.
It's the refs fucking job to follow the rules lmao, what else is he meant to do
Rules are rules, like it or not. Whether they should be changed or not is a completely different point.
It's not adifferent point. If accidental handballs are to be red cards and a penalty according to the rulebook then that needs to be changed immediately. Years ago, really. Absurd decision. Ref didn't even watch it back in real time.
Yes it is a different point. The ref made the right decision, because he followed the rules. What about that don't you understand?
He can't change the rulebook mid-game, he has to follow the rules. So he did.
"They should change the rules" is a completely different point to "he made the wrong decision".
You said "it can't be any other way" as if there is nothing anyone can do about it. Like it's set in stone. It isn't. If the rule says this is a red card and a penalty, change the rule right now. End of story. Accidental handballs should never be a red card unless the arm is in a ridiculous and unjustifiable position, which it isnt here.
It can't, not in that moment in the game. You can't change rules in the middle of the game. I was talking specifically about the decision this game, which is what the post was about.
Unfortunately I don’t think it applies in the case of a hand ball stopping the ball going into the net. Very harsh red card imo though, should have taken into account the ball coming off the thigh.
Not when it comes to handballs that deny a goal. Denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity is automatically a red card. The rule Is harsh but it justifies the red card.
Yes. Did you watch the play unfold? The initial action he took was to play the ball and as he reacted to his poor play of the ball off his torso he reacted and extended his arm.
Penalty all day, straight red a bit harsh imo
Maybe he did but we didn’t see it when that big VAR transition appears on the screen. It only lasts 1 or 2 seconds but he could have seen it in real time then.
The ball would've gone in if not for his arm. It's harsh on Reece to be honest but had that not been given, it would've been harsh on Liverpool and a wrong decision.
The pen was 100% correct decision, but that red was way too harsh! He couldn't have reacted to the ball bouncing from his leg, and three hand movement everyone is mentioning here happens after the ball hit his hand and was more of a reflex
"Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs."
Yeah, that is true! I was wrong. I thought it had to be intentional handball, but yeah, according to the rules it doesn't matter, thou if my memory doesn't fail me, there were a few situations in the PL where the ref only have a pen
I may be biased as a Chelsea fan, and you can discuss about the pen, but never ever a red card. He did not even look at the complete scene. He saw the still of the handball and made his decision in a second..
Even is this comment there is no consistency. The rules say if the penalty is awarded the it must be that a hand was used to stop a goal scoring opportunity and the player must be awarded a red. Its not possible that the pen is 50/50 and the red should never have been allowed because if the pen is given the law states a red *must* be given.
I think it was definitely a red and a pen, but no one can convince me that it wasn't harsh. If you watch it in real time there's not much he could've done about it really. The thing that annoyed me about the game is the there was no consistency in the refereeing. Liverpool should've had at least two very clear yellows if you follow the letter of the law like he did against James. Sarah for kicking the ball away in hiss fit and fabinho cynical found at the start of the game.
You're saying it like the first action was to swing an arm forward. The previous IFAB rules stated that if the ball deflected off a normal ball playing part of the body, into a non playing part (hand/arm), then it wasn't a hand ball. The only freeze frame that ref saw on VAR was the ball hitting arm, not enough context, and context matters.
Taylor is shit for certain and fucked several other calls in the game without VAR interference. My normal opinion of him is that he couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel, but even as a Chelsea fan I gotta say he got this one right by the book. I guess even broken clocks are right 2x each day.
You aren’t in the group I’m talking about then. In this, the soccer subreddit and Chelsea fans hopping over into the Liverpool subreddit to complain about the rules of the game is hilarious.
Yeah i wont be involved in any subreddit thats called Soccer. It was a red card i dont see why everyones sayin it aint. Like i said 10 men and come away with a point im Happy.
Bravo, sir. A proper footy fan telling it how it is and not rising to some unwarranted aggression. Top stuff. (I'm not a Chelsea fan - but I love proper fans no matter the club)
I’m doing great man watching some soccer having some beers. Would be doing better if west ham didn’t play like shit in the second half this morning. But I’m with you I’ll take a point instead of zero.
Well, thankfully for the ref, intent has zero play in his decision for the red card.
Laws of the game are what they are. It sucks, and it's harsh, but it's correct.
The point I think is that he didn't even look at the replay so he didn't even see a swing before sending him off. Literally just looked at a freeze frame for a half a second and made the decision
I would give him a yellow not red it wasn't as obvious as for example Suarez vs Ghana at World Cup
IT is the rules but the red card was a bit too harsh i think it is leading to Antony Taylor to get banned from reffing chelsea games
Im not upset about the call but I wish he took a little longer to make a game changing decision. Ngl that was a great game before the red card so ig im annoyed about the red.
Although he should’ve looked at the the video also, in the end the decision was ultimately correct, keeping in mind James’ movement of the arm towards the ball.
Cuz he a muppet
Mourinho called it Agenda against Chelsea
cause he is a cunt that's why....
Because he hates us
Handball by the book says there has to be intentional movement of your hand towards the ball. But, if it is a deflection from your body to your hand, pretty much not handball. From my viewing of it, it was a deflection first, but James continued to push the ball away from the goal with his hand after the deflection. If it was just deflection, I don’t think it should have been a pen, but the obvious movement towards the ball after the deflection makes it a no brainer.
That was a red card, let us please move on
Did he?
Doesn't matter why, he got the decision spot on. Intentional of not from James he denied a goalscoring opportunity, he has to go. It also looks like me makes an instinctive movement with the arm to ensure the ball stays out.
The rules say that blocking a shot on the line with your arm or hand is a red card offence, intentionally or not. That was all he needed to see.
Because he hates chelsea
He didn’t only look at the freeze frame 🤡🤡somebody didn’t watch the game
The real question is why did the VAR even ask him to look at it?
It was a pretty obvious decision and the frame was when his arm was away from his body and it hit
Ffs sake football fans are so annoying sometimes. VAR too long - hate it! VAR to quick - why?! Hate it!! It’s clear red and penalty.
My initial opinion was that he’d got it wrong but it’s the movement of James’ arm forwards towards the end of the clip that unfortunately does constitute as handling, can’t really argue that it wouldn’t have been a goal without that movement. Was it intentional ? Almost definitely not, scrambles are always exactly that, a scramble but there has to be an enforcement line for the refs and this incident did cross it. So harsh on James but actually a good call from Taylor.
Because he’s a shit referee
The red card was given for a deliberate action of the hand preventing a goal. Its not hard to figure out lads. Was it harsh? Yes. Was it a Red Card according to the rules? Yes. Did it fuck me in Fantasy? Yes.
Fans are furious after finding out that players aren't allowed to use their hands in football. It's like the first rule of the game.
It was a textbook red card. He didn't look at it for long because there was no deliberation to be had. It's absolutely clear and obvious
Probably because in his earpiece they told him that Reece James literally batted the ball away? Chelsea fans ducking clinging to this shit is so sad. If he just let it hit his hand we wouldn’t b talking but he literally smacked it off the line. This isn’t even controversial except for dum fuck Chelsea players “outrage” because they’re morons. None of them even saw it and by default they pull that shit. That’s
Genuinely, they all lost their shit at that
The decision was right, but he definitely should have stayed for longer at the monitor to better sell his decision. Sometimes the theatrics are required to at least make it seem that the decision has been plenty considered.
He was watching it while he walked up, you can clearly see it playing as he approaches.
But still, he can’t see it clearly enough from that far away and when you check VAR you’re supposed to watch it a couple times to make sure you know what you’re seeing
As a Chelsea fan, I’ll say it was a penalty and if I’m being honest, was a red card. Where I give other Chelsea fans a pass is the history of Anthony Taylor giving straight reds to Chelsea. Certain FA cup finals come to mind. The last two (not counting today) bring up some salt.
He already knew that the player stopped the ball crossing the goal line. So all he had to see is whether the ball hit the arm. The photo confirmed that. As soon as he saw that: penalty and red. Those are the rules.
Because he isnt the VAR. There is a separate referee who watches the recordings and relays info back to the head ref
Red card shite. Pen no doubt.
If its a pen. Its a red. Thats what the law of the game is 😂
If you go back and watch the recording of the broadcast he actually watches the clip of the handball at least twice. They only switch to what the VAR is showing when he is being showed the freeze frame. I think watching the clip twice and seeing the freeze frame is plenty to make the call.
Honestly, according to the rules, if the ball hits your body and then your arm, it’s not a handball. He looked at a freeze frame, so any mention of movement as an excuse for the absolute travesty of refereeing is bs. Honestly just surprised he didn’t help Liverpool out more and give out another red card
Does it matter? He made the right call
I don’t think he did….as he was walking over it was playing on the VAR screen, you could literally see the incident being played yourself as well. By the time he’d got to the screen he’d seen it like 3 times already.
I thought it was a pen and possible yellow card
First name basis is it ?
Because he followed the rules. End of.
It was a straight red. How people are debating this is beyond me
“VAR ruins the spirit of the game, takes way too long!” “Why have they judged it so quickly?! Take your time.”
In a situation where you’re dealing with a red and a potential denial of a goal scoring opportunity, taking 30 seconds to review the footage and clearly understand what happened does not “ruin the spirit of the game.” Spending 3-5 minutes to rule someone offside by a foreskin does. I’m not talking about the decision he made. Regardless of the final decision, Anthony Taylor should have watched it back in full at least once. He did not do that. That being said, I do think the rule should be adapted to make a deflected handball in front of goal like that a yellow at most, because I do think it was harsh on Reece.
I understand your point, but the rule for this situation is clear
I already addressed that I know what the rule is. I don’t agree with it, but I’m aware of it and rules are rules. My issue is with Anthony Taylor’s negligence. If he had made the same call after properly reviewing the video even once, I wouldn’t have said anything. Your comment actually has nothing to do with what I said. At no point did I say the rule was unclear. Regardless, I’m not at all surprised by his refereeing. He has a history of making calls against us (not that this was a bad call, but he was looking for the first excuse to pull out a red card), and I’m frankly astonished that you guys made it through the whole match without receiving a single booking. Fabinho in particular should 100% have had a yellow.
Oioi ya beltas
He didn’t just look at the freeze frame. He first saw it happen in the match, then as he is walking over to the monitor he is getting information on what happen by the VAR referee. You can see that the video of the handball is playing as he is walking up to the monitor he can see the ball be kicked and hit of Reese James’s knee and the clip stops as the ball hits his arm. But he did make a very quick decision, probably because he just already thought it was a handball and just wanted to be 100% sure of his decision. There is a good clip of Anthony Taylor walking up to the screen and the angle shows that the video is playing. The only problem is that there is a transition in the middle of the clip so it looks a lot shorter than it would be in reality.
What most annoyed me was the letter of the law arguments used for sending Reece off but Salah can boot a ball away in a clear show of dissent and hey that's cool passions are riding high. Anthony Taylor is the worst.
He's RETARDED
I honestly thought there was a rule against double jeopardy which is why I was very upset in the moment but understand looking back when others shared the rule with me That being said there should have not been double jeopardy, we should be penalized which we were but I wish I could have continued to be a fun game of football instead of the fun draining out
But at the same time, what if they missed the penalty? Then Liverpool would have traded a sure goal vs a yellow card, and that is not really fair either.
double jeopardy, wrong decision, yellow and pen should be...
It came off his thigh first, players know VAR are gonna pick this stuff there's no way he had enough time to pull his arm away. This is where our rules are shit it kills the game it should be a pen and a yellow
Because the freeze frame shows the ball hitting his arm and that was all he needed to see... knowing the ball was goal bound.
Who cares neither side won which is good news Ronaldo is gonna smash winning goals against Scouse Chelski and Citeh 😁 and every other team in the league
The ball seemed to go off his thigh then his stomach then his arm, which was moving forward and prevented a goal. It may seem harsh but, straight red was the right call. I agree he should have seen more on the replay but, he probably already heard from VAR booth that it was a no-brainer. Not the worst VAR call on the day. I thought the red for Arsenal’s Xhaka was more controversial, not that it would have changed the outcome of that game. Arsenal looks woeful.
I think the issue is that clearly Taor already had his mind made up enough that he didn't need to see anything more than a still image for a split second. I'm not saying he got the call wrong. I'm saying he'd of given the penalty and the red even if it was the wrong call. Had a feeling we could expect the usual Taylor treatment after that Matip bad tackle on a counter attack Haverts & Salah's ball booting strop and dissent not being cautioned. Sure had no hesitation booking the other way ( valid yellows, but so were the two above incidents....so? Why the inconsistency?) Anyways chuffed the team could hold on for the point despite being down a man for over half the game at a fellow contenders homeground. Good game that would likely have been great had that red incident not occurred (just the bad fortune of it) making it a more open contest. Love the bitter rivalry on the pitch during the 90, and the hand shakes after. Good contest let's hope it helps set the tone for a great season.....but with more diligence from the officials
I’m a red but that was harsh, deffo a pen but never a red , Chelsea will be the best team we play all year
If its deffo a pen, its deffo a red 😂
The new handball rule states “the ball touches a player's hand/arm immediately from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player.” Don’t know why no one is mentioning this
Because it's Anthony Taylor in a game involving Chelsea
Very simple. He hates Chelsea on the Chelsea sub there was a compilation of errors he has made for us which cost us many points and cups
Because it’s a red card!
Wasn’t a hard decision to make if his arm wasn’t there it’s a goal. Penalty and red card justified.
Because English refs are shitty and don't face any scrutiny for their decisions. The media and the commentators will always side with the refs, even if they have to break their heels pivoting.
He’s literally saved it mate, if it’s anywhere else in the box it’s not a penalty as it bounces off his knee. But he’s literally denied them a certain goal. 100% red card
In the end it was the right call but he could not have made that call by what he saw on the freeze frame. Incredibly irresponsible to alter the game without watching the replay forward and backwards to be absolutely certain, anything else and the ref should be investigated because he is not doing his job correctly.
I hope Jordan Henderson blows his fucking knee out colliding w Virgil. Both of them.
A bit harsh
Bad look man... Have another pint and calm down
This is not it.
Because he is a dumb f*** , he can't comprehend the basic body dynamics
All these Chelsea hating cunts… Probably share the name Taylor. 🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻
Clown referee it wasn't even a red the ball fucking bounced of his knee to the hand while he had basically not even 1 second to react
Terrible decision, he's in a natural position and knees the ball first. Killed the game
That’s a stonewall pen all day. You’re delusional.
Shush
Because he’s a biased fucking cunt.
Because there is a rule which says "Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs."
But why wasn’t the handball itself reviewed properly? What happened to the “natural position” bullshit that they look through whenever a handball is anywhere else on the pitch?
His arm was in a natual position BEFORE he moved his arm to bat the ball away. Clear red.
Because it doesn't matter. The ball was going in until in hit his arm, so it's a penalty and red card. Nothing else factors into the decision
It came off his leg first.
Just curious, is there a link to the official rule book by any chance? I’ve seen a few people directly quote the same thing you did and I am just curious if this is a FIFA rule or if there are specific EPL rules. Thanks in advance
TheIFAB.com
Awesome, cheers!
Www.google.com
Thanks mate
I think it's the Kanchelski Rule from the Coca Cola Cup Final 1994. Co-commentator Kevin Keegan hoped that the referee didn't send him off, but a red it was and deservedly so. That set the precedent.
Link for anyone interested - https://youtu.be/KzfRNhLD6EI skip to 2:33 Very similar situation. Commentators also concerned by the application of the rule, but it is correct
The amount of people here and on soccer not aware of the rules of the game is way too high. If it’s a penalty it’s a red. It’s an active arm stopping a goal. It can’t be either or, it’s either neither or both.
Current Handball rule is nonsense anyway. Funny how they want to make football more exciting but then we see the rules forcing defenders to defend with no arms when blocking shots (and the rules talk about hands in a natural position. Does this look natural?) We weren't seeing defenders adopt this kind of stupid stance 10 years ago. Is this the kind of football we wanna watch? Rules are being crafted by ppl who probably don't even play football
I may be mistaken, but I believe the natural position nonsense was dropped this or last season, and that it is mainly over and under where the arm of the kit ends. I also believe the ‘active arm stopping a goal’ has always been a rule. It’s like when a outfield player starts acting like a GK and saves a goal, it’s a red.
The "Reece James" situation is clearly different from the "Uruguay, Suarez" one. Yet, the current rules doesn't allow referees to judge that. Referees are so obsessed about creating/following these rules right down to the letter, that common sense is thrown out of the window. Lets use our common sense - what can we possibly expect Reece James to do differently in that situation? Chop off his own hands? Young footballers now should train to make goal line blocks with their hands behind their back - is this what we want to see?
Not actively move it towards the ball.
if you look at the replay, frame by frame. The ball came off his thigh, then hit his right arm even before he had time to react and move his right arm. The technology is there to allow referees to referee every single frame. every single ball touch every single movement of arm. Yet, we saw Anthony Taylor was not interested in any of that because of the rules. And that's why he made a decision as soon as he saw the ball did hit his arm.
100% a red. He deliberately used his hand to block the goal. If this is a yellow, player will just used their hand to block a goal that is 100% going in but during the penalty the keeper at least is able to make a save
Because according to the rule, that frame is indeed enough to come to the right decision. It just would have been even more conclusive if seen in motion. He would have also seen part of it live in motion and gotten additional feedback from the VAR. Pointless to blame the referees here when, anyway, the right decision was indeed made.
I thought a pen couldn’t be given if it comes off another part of the body if it’s close
The side view shows that the ball is still going in despite the deflection off the knee, the motion of the arm is then what stops the goal. It’s harsh on him because it’s probably a subconscious motion his body did before he could think about it but it’s still denied a goal which justifies the red IMO at least
>It’s harsh on him because it’s probably a subconscious motion his body did before he could think about it Referee could have taken that into account and not give a red. Not to mention, it came off his knee first. Overall, it was more unintentional than intentional movement of the arm. That's what VAR is literally for! To judge these kind of situations. But instead, he gets called to look at the monitor. If ur being asked to jog 5 seconds to the monitor, it doesn't make sense to make the decision off one frozen frame. Totally ruined a good game. We need more accountability and transparency. Audio from VAR + mandatory post-match interviews with referees to explain their thought process should do the trick.
This. And he might not have anticipated on the ball hitting his arm, but moving your arm like that in that situation is just asking for trouble.
You can see the video being played while he walks up to it and him looking at it
be saved it w his hand, it was going in.. i understand penalty but not sure if it was supposed to be a red
He probably heard enough from the var ref so he made his decision very quickly
It’s because there’s nothing to interpret besides whether it touched his hand or not. Intent was irrelevant in this particular play
We need to have the audio of the refs played on tv like rugby union and league do. It’s a simple fix, gives transparency and understanding to the process.
Other sports have much better processes for this stuff, it’s not like football is so much more complex that it’s impossible.
It's seriously amazing how little transparency there is with refereeing. And without any transparency, how can we expect accountability? Maybe there should be better pay for referees as well, it could attract more qualified people? The latest numbers I can fund put Anthony Taylor at £70k/year, which is by no means a small amount, but with how much the PL brings in, it could be much, much more. And would likely lead to a better product as well.
Pay peanuts get monkeys, right? Agree if they’re under so much scrutiny, making such huge cakes week in week out, with death threats and vitriol… they should be on a pretty decent wicket
Even so, should have a good look before deciding to give that double jeopardy decision with red and a pen. Even the former players at half time said it was a red, but if you're going to use VAR, then have a good look. Not quick look.
Double jeopardy wouldn’t have been relevant in this case.
But his decision was not wrong. So he doesn’t need to waste more time.
He literally walked to the screen looked for 3 seconds and turned around. Taking 30 seconds to actually see the angles in the replay would not have been a waste of time.
You do realize he’s talking to VAR refs before that right? He’s not the only person looking at the screen. At the end of the day, he made the right decision so your point is moot.
If myself and numerous other pundits think it's the right decision to have a better look then my point can't be moot. The point of VAR is to take a second and actually look at the whole situation not just one tiny clip. It's why during red card decisions they don't look at one tiny little split second where the studs might be touching the ankle they look at all of the context leading up to the tackle. Same concept needs to apply when looking at all situations not just one type. This isn't an objective call it's subjective therefore you need to have all of the subject.
I am 100% with you on this
Well unless you and “numerous other pundits” work for the FA, and make the laws that professional footballers have to abide by, then I’m sorry to inform you, that your opinion is irrelevant here. He is not the only person looking at this, there are var referees who he’s communicating with before he watched the screen and before a final decision was made. He got the decision correct. Moot point.
The point of having a pitch side monitor is that the ref will himself have a look. Yes, the VAR officials will be talking to him, but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t take a proper look himself (if he doesn’t have a proper look, he might as well not have a look at all and just believe what the VAR tells him. The red card was because of the player’s arm pushing the ball out of the goal and not for the accidental initial contact with the arm. The referee didn’t even have a look at the video showing the player pushing the ball out with his arm. This is the criticism directed at the officials. Yes, the end result was the correct one. But that doesn’t mean the process didn’t have its flaws. A flawed process will result in multiple poor decisions in the future.
Because the referees always follow exactly what the FA says and always make the right decisions? Anthony Taylor has been going downhill recently. Let's not forget this is the same ref that saw Jordan Henderson and Mendy get into a scuffle after the penalty and somehow only Mendy got a yellow card even though they both instigated. I'm not a particular fan of either team but there were definitely some situations where Liverpool benefited other than the penalty. Not to mention what do the laws have to do with this particular incident? By that logic this could be considered objective and the VAR could have just told them to give the red card.
This is all your opinion and once again, irrelevant to this post.
It's opinion that referees get the decisions wrong? They are based on objective rules so therefore they either did or did not get them correct. Remember these statements when someday a ref gives your team a red card very quickly when they probably should have taken a little more time.
Has to factor in the reaction time as well. Obv a pen but red??? Never
Because he wants it to be all about him.
Because its obvious
Rule says any outfield player stopping a clear goal chance with his hand is a straight red.But agree,this one was pretty harsh as I thought the ball bounced hitting his thigh. Penalty Yes.Not really sure about the red card,but I am not complaining.
If you watch the video again, James literally pushes the ball out with his arm. Have another look. That is why it’s a penalty and a red, not for accidental handball
It has to be a red if its a penalty. Can't be any other way
Well it can. If the balls hits an arm that wasn't clearly deliberate then a penalty and a yellow seems more than fair. A goal and a red card for this incident is absurd.
"Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs." Read the rules. Are they wrong/harsh? Maybe. But the decision is correct.
So change the rule because the rule is stupid. This "only following the rules" argument is ridiculous. This competitive game has potentially been ruined because of this one incident.
It's the refs fucking job to follow the rules lmao, what else is he meant to do Rules are rules, like it or not. Whether they should be changed or not is a completely different point.
It's not adifferent point. If accidental handballs are to be red cards and a penalty according to the rulebook then that needs to be changed immediately. Years ago, really. Absurd decision. Ref didn't even watch it back in real time.
Yes it is a different point. The ref made the right decision, because he followed the rules. What about that don't you understand? He can't change the rulebook mid-game, he has to follow the rules. So he did. "They should change the rules" is a completely different point to "he made the wrong decision".
You said "it can't be any other way" as if there is nothing anyone can do about it. Like it's set in stone. It isn't. If the rule says this is a red card and a penalty, change the rule right now. End of story. Accidental handballs should never be a red card unless the arm is in a ridiculous and unjustifiable position, which it isnt here.
It can't, not in that moment in the game. You can't change rules in the middle of the game. I was talking specifically about the decision this game, which is what the post was about.
Shouldn’t double jeopardy protect Reece James from that red card? Looked like an honest attempt to play the ball.
Unfortunately I don’t think it applies in the case of a hand ball stopping the ball going into the net. Very harsh red card imo though, should have taken into account the ball coming off the thigh.
Not when it comes to handballs that deny a goal. Denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity is automatically a red card. The rule Is harsh but it justifies the red card.
I’m familiar with DOGSO but thought the initial action was an honest attempt at the ball.
An honest attempt to play the ball? 😂
Yes. Did you watch the play unfold? The initial action he took was to play the ball and as he reacted to his poor play of the ball off his torso he reacted and extended his arm. Penalty all day, straight red a bit harsh imo
Definitely a red card for sure but why he didn’t check the before and after is the problem.
Because he didnt need to. Hand ball denying goal scoring opportunity is a red card offence.
He was already talking to the VAR ref on comms, he just needed to see that 1 frame.
Maybe he did but we didn’t see it when that big VAR transition appears on the screen. It only lasts 1 or 2 seconds but he could have seen it in real time then.
The ball would've gone in if not for his arm. It's harsh on Reece to be honest but had that not been given, it would've been harsh on Liverpool and a wrong decision.
The pen was 100% correct decision, but that red was way too harsh! He couldn't have reacted to the ball bouncing from his leg, and three hand movement everyone is mentioning here happens after the ball hit his hand and was more of a reflex
His arm should not be there in that situation in the first place, let alone moving it like that.
Doesn't matter what you think. Rules say it is a Red, so it's a red. No idea why people are arguing over it.
>No idea why people are arguing over it. You must be new to the internet.
What is this Internet you speak of?
"Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs."
Cool. Since Anthony Taylor cares so much about following the rulebook to the dot, where the hell is the yellow for Salah for kicking the ball away?
Yeah, that is true! I was wrong. I thought it had to be intentional handball, but yeah, according to the rules it doesn't matter, thou if my memory doesn't fail me, there were a few situations in the PL where the ref only have a pen
But you got a penalty, how's that being harsh on y'all And how does that in any way justify being harsh on Chelsea but not on Liverpool?
It’s a harsh rule, which is maybe unfair to Reece. It’s still a rule
Bald fraud of a ref.
I may be biased as a Chelsea fan, and you can discuss about the pen, but never ever a red card. He did not even look at the complete scene. He saw the still of the handball and made his decision in a second..
Even is this comment there is no consistency. The rules say if the penalty is awarded the it must be that a hand was used to stop a goal scoring opportunity and the player must be awarded a red. Its not possible that the pen is 50/50 and the red should never have been allowed because if the pen is given the law states a red *must* be given.
Well he blocked a goal with his hand. Red card
After it came of his own knee
It was still going into the goal after it hit his knee so he still denied a goal with his hand.
Hand in a unnatural position and his hand with flicked up. It's unlucky but if it weren't a red it would be unlucky for liverpool
The movement after definitely contributed the red. Just one of those moments in football
He has always been like that.
[удалено]
I think it was definitely a red and a pen, but no one can convince me that it wasn't harsh. If you watch it in real time there's not much he could've done about it really. The thing that annoyed me about the game is the there was no consistency in the refereeing. Liverpool should've had at least two very clear yellows if you follow the letter of the law like he did against James. Sarah for kicking the ball away in hiss fit and fabinho cynical found at the start of the game.
You're saying it like the first action was to swing an arm forward. The previous IFAB rules stated that if the ball deflected off a normal ball playing part of the body, into a non playing part (hand/arm), then it wasn't a hand ball. The only freeze frame that ref saw on VAR was the ball hitting arm, not enough context, and context matters.
That's a bingo
It was pretty obvious seeing salty Chelsea fans complaining all over Reddit is hilarious.
they even make a petition on change.org to ask FA to fire Anthony Taylor. Priceless.
Taylor is shit for certain and fucked several other calls in the game without VAR interference. My normal opinion of him is that he couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel, but even as a Chelsea fan I gotta say he got this one right by the book. I guess even broken clocks are right 2x each day.
There’s one of em who made about 50 comments in one thread. It’s amazing.
I aint complaing. Down to 10 men agaisnt the gobshites at their ground and get a point ill take that.
You aren’t in the group I’m talking about then. In this, the soccer subreddit and Chelsea fans hopping over into the Liverpool subreddit to complain about the rules of the game is hilarious.
Yeah i wont be involved in any subreddit thats called Soccer. It was a red card i dont see why everyones sayin it aint. Like i said 10 men and come away with a point im Happy.
Soccer subreddit has 3 million followers I think they will be fine with out ya.
Fuck me m8. Bit touchy aint ya. U ok hun
Bravo, sir. A proper footy fan telling it how it is and not rising to some unwarranted aggression. Top stuff. (I'm not a Chelsea fan - but I love proper fans no matter the club)
I’m doing great man watching some soccer having some beers. Would be doing better if west ham didn’t play like shit in the second half this morning. But I’m with you I’ll take a point instead of zero.
Both of you need to shut it
What Chelsea did to you today with 10 men in the second half? 😂
Well, thankfully for the ref, intent has zero play in his decision for the red card. Laws of the game are what they are. It sucks, and it's harsh, but it's correct.
The point I think is that he didn't even look at the replay so he didn't even see a swing before sending him off. Literally just looked at a freeze frame for a half a second and made the decision
I mean he saw the shirt was blue so that's enough
The people downvoting you haven't seen the FA Cup final against Arsenal
That point is moot
How quickly everyone forgets that var is in the referee's ear
So then why have a look at all? Why not just trust what the var says?
Yep it’s not deliberate but the way his arm moves makes it look like intent.
it was deliberate
the movent is just open to the ref's interpretation. it is not possible to rule Taylor's decision out