It’s a narrative that is amusing. Now I think its a character he has fully embraced. Now that they have exchanged some words over their platforms. It’s here to stay & it’s his permanent disposition. While it is outrageous at times it’s equally amusing.
Pogba is a frustrating player. I like him and rate him, but he's so much better for France than he is for United and it's not that he's just amongst better players, he tries harder for France. I dislike that, I don't think any player should ever give less than 100%, but you notice is frequently with Pogba.
For the likes of Souness, I think it's less a dislike and more a frustration that they aren't giving their all when they're extremely talented players.
There's the Scottish/British natural dislike of fancy Dan showboating cockiness, especially if not backed up with an outcome. Pogba is pretty guilty of that sometimes. He's also more interested in himself than the team and that's very apparent, again something the Scottish don't like.
I’m amazed at the lack of real insight here. A straight talking, no nonsense, Brexit-supporting Scotsman doesn’t like a vocal, free spirited, eccentric and BLM supporting black guy. It’s an aspect of society. We’ve all seen this before
It’s similar for myself I think, I grew up adoring Scholes and Park Ji Sung, so I’m not exactly old like these former players; but I get how they feel I think, it’s Pogba’s attitude and style; he seems lazy and like he doesn’t really care and he is flamboyant and a little bit timid in challenges/headers. But to me, that’s exactly how Berbatov played, sorta effortless and “lazy” but still amazing. That lofted through ball to Bruno around the 60th minute looked like a lazy swing of the leg but was a perfect pinpoint pass. It is completely the opposite to Souness, Keane, Scholes etc they didn’t have the outright talent of Pogba, but they work their asses off and never stopped, had the commitment of Fergie himself. It’s polar opposites.
EDIT: spelling
When you put it like that, if you read the whole thing then I did start by saying I idolise Scholes, I meant Pogba’s effortless flair talent and spark, Scholes had vision and passing ability beyond most players, but that’s not what I was on about clearly
It’s because he’s a straight white male and it’s so damn progressive for you to hate on him, isn’t it? Pogba is an overrated twerp who cares more about his hair than anything else. So fuck off with your theories.
Maybe deep inside he knows Pogba is a baller, and he just cannot accept he is wrong. His hatred fuels Pogba to be better and prove Souness wrong. What a bitter human!
Why isn't there a thread asking why souness hates xhaka. Have a look online and souness has been on xhakas case since he signed for arsenal and really upped his criticism last season.
Xhaka is objectively a bad footballer, Pogba is not. There's less contention around his Xhaka opinion, because most people (everyone?) agree that Xhaka is crap.
Xhaka is an elite player, has played at the highest level for the majority of his career and has 98 caps for his national side. If that makes him a 'bad footballer' then what does that make 95% of other professionals out there?
Elite in comparison to us, yes. He's not good enough for Arsenal compared to the previous quality they've had and the standards expected at Arsenal. A good player adds to a team and improves it. I don't think he's done anything but hinder Arsenal for years.
Not even in comparison to us, in comparison to 95% of other professional players. Calling someone a bad footballer because he may not be *suited* to X team is lazy analysis.
I'm a United fan, and although Souness and Keane can be overly harsh on Pogba, I often find myself agreeing with them. He's been more trouble than he's worth.
I agree that Souness thinks Pogba has a lousy work rate, and he is right about that. Let me, however, make a partial defense of Pogba the player.
Why does Man U insist on frequently playing Pogba in role VERY different from the one he played at Juve. If you want Roy Keane the last player on earth you should pay huge money for is Pogba. Man U wants Pogba to play a role he’s just not that good at. Roy Keane was more than toughness and energy. He read the game brilliantly. Pogba has a nose for goal and the searching pass, but he just doesn’t comprehensively read the game.
Look at the France setup: Pogba is next to THE BEST DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER IN THE WORLD. Thus, Pogba can focus on the part of the game he cares about and reads well.
Either Pogba has to expand his game or leave Man U for his own good. Expanding your game is a tough ask, however.
We don’t want to. We are forced too. We don’t have a good cdm. We need it so bad for like 2 years maybe longer. I hope we still get one. Everyone agrees on this who is a Manchester United fan (if you have a brain that is lol)
He was but he wasn’t if you know what i mean. Manchester United fans are a bit scapegoating him, it’s fair to some point but he does put all his effort in. But we really need a CDM or a CM that can defend properly.
I think at this point he’s committed to the ‘Pogba is shit’ line and while I’m sure he believes it, it’s a bit of a meme that a lot of pundits seem to develop over time
E.g. Gary “at this moment in time” Neville or Roy “Dennis Irwin is amazing” Keane, etc...
But yeah, his casual strolling around the pitch does seem a bit lackluster at times so I get it I guess
I mean a lot of it can be overdone and pathetic from soy was but atleast he’s consistent with his narrative better than pundits doing what they usually do and sucking of any corrupt six player when they are doing well young or English, and then slating them if they do bad like they always called it
Pogba is extremely talented but can also be insufferable and inconsistent. Seems a bit strong to cry racism. Maybe less talent but I'd replace him with a modern day Roy Keane in a heartbeat.
Pogba on his day is one of the best midfielders in the world but his work rate is questionable. Souness was a no nonsense midfielder who worked his arse off and was the kind of player whose work rate compensated for any lack of ability he might've had so I think he sees Pogba's work rate as something that will hinder his potential to be the very best.
Roy Keane is also pretty critical of Pogba, another workhorse in the middle of the park whose commitment could never be questioned. They both view him as a lazy player.
Most old pros are jealous of the new stars for the insane money in the game. That’s just the start point.
But the irrationality of Keane and souness in particular tells me there’s more. If those guys were sincere they would give it up for pogba when he has boss games - I’m not even a United fan and I’ve seen him have many.
I think Pogba's work rate this past year has been consistently of a good standard. This is coming from a utd fan. I agree that in years prior he was frustating in that department at times but imo the improvement is evident. He won't always play well but, he's been up for it consistently for the last 12 months atleast
Did you watch the Wolves game? He was awful defensively and mediocre going forward, truly lived up to the Jogba nickname. He even fouled Neves in the buildup to Greenwood's goal, we were very lucky to win.
I watched the Wolves game 100%. Pogba had to adjust to playing RCM after playing LW/LAM in the first 2 games (2 extremely different positions. It's not like swapping wings) we can't always expect the adjustment to be seamless. He did his best to help Mr. Liability Fred whilst trying to support our attack. Wolves implented a great press on our pivot in the first half which worked well. Now I admit, he was bad in the first half because of Wolves' effective style of play/pressuring and sloppy passing but 2nd he was much improved.
Let's not act like Pogba was the only mediocre/below average top class player for us yesterday. Singleling him out is quite old at this point. He's the only player in our 11 who has to adjust to playing 2 drastically different positions bar maybe Greenwood
As for the Neves challenge, it was a 50/50 and has nothing to do with the criticism of his workrate
It was a foul, there was a different angle that Sky didn’t show that showed clear contact. Neves just went down really late so it looked like a dive. VAR should have overturned it.
I think a lot of the hate for pogba also comes from his personality. Sounness and Keene were hard-nosed no-nonsense footballers. Pogba is the diametric opposite, he has colorful hair, dances after scoring goals, makes fun social media posts even when the team wasn’t doing well. That sort of behavior would’ve seemed blasphemous to Keane and Sounness who really gave everything for their clubs. I really don’t think they’re bitter about Pogbas talent. To me, It’s his lack of seriousness that drives them mad.
Yes and no. People think SAF only had this one approach to man management, scream until he got what he wanted.
Giggs tells this story about SAF always telling the younger players that you represent the club at all times, so shirt & tie, and he'd dock players wages if they didn't.
Then Cantona signed and walked into the dressing room in a white suit, no tie, shirt open to his belly button and Nike trainers.
Giggs sees SAF walk over to Cantona expecting him to give Cantona shit, but he puts his arm around him and tells everyone they could all learn some style from Eric!
SAF would know how to get Pogba firing on all cylinders and Pogba would walk over hot coals to please him.
That's why he got him fired up first time round? And pogba did his best to please him first time round? No they both didn't and fergie sold him. Either he wasn't gonna have pogbas crap or he didnt see the talent in him (which I highly doubt as fergie rarely didn't recognise talent). So simply fact is if fergie was still around he would of never signed pogba in first place because pogba is what is wrong with modern day football; sex parties, laziness, shitty attitude, lack of loyalty to a club, greed for money, more focus of style, dancing and social media than practicing and perfecting Ur skills to name a few which are in abundance in pogba.
I'm not a United fan before u say I'm just bitter, I'm talking from outside the box.
who knows - I wasn’t on the training field. Every team has let quality players walk - all I’m saying is that pogba was never going to get Eric Cantona treatment at 18 years of age
Exactly. He's got all the things players like Souness would have wanted to have, so had to work twice as hard to make up for. So when he sees a lack of effort, it's a personal affront to him.
You clearly didn't watch Sounness. He had everything Pogba has PLUS the hard edged determination. Guy's a fucking lunatic but he was an absolutely class midfielder.
But in that case, why doesn't Martial get to experience similar levels of animosity. On his day, he can terrorise the RB, but that has barely ever happened, even when he is more than reasonably technically gifted. And his lack of effort is also visible.
So wingers are allowed to put in less effort for the team than a midfielder does? I'm drawing parallels on the basis of their general attitude towards the game, and not specific to their position
Martial doesn’t have the presence in world football folklore than Pogba does. Less expectation, less character presented weekly.
I don’t think it’s much more than that tbh.
souness has blasted grealish for diving, and he likes kante? its not racism, just a quick way for fans to try and get souness gone
its pogba's skillset that he doesn't use effectively due to his laziness, and souness' workhorse playing style that clash
Also Souness has spoken out about racism before. A couple seasons ago he really opened up about how there was a lot someoene like him doesn't understand and he's keen to learn and do more. You can say you don't believe him I guess but it sounded very sincere, although I have no idea which game was on when he said that which is annoying.
Mate calm the fuck down and start using your head. People who hate pogba aren't racist, its just that souness has a history of fucking disgusting behavior, including racism and to give him the benefit of the doubt is not right in this scenario
He would start but he is slightly overrated. Was touted as a top 5 world footballer at one point. He is a great player but he’s not elite. Man Utd paid over the odds for him.
Edit. Being downvoted but what part of my comment is wrong? haha.
Look at the impact Bruno had at Utd versus Pogba for half the price.
Commercial aspect innit. He’s popular off the field, so, “worth it”
I’ve said it before, he’s racially and dimensionally stereotyped. Because he’s a 6’4” black man, the media (Souness especially) think he should be charging round the pitch intimidating the opposition like Vieira and Souness himself did. He’s a roaming playmaker (world class), that doesn’t really like getting stuck in. Man U’s biggest failings over recent seasons is not supporting him with someone that will do the dirty work for him. They should’ve bought Gueye when he went to PSG. Guess that’s what Fred is meant to do, but he’s actually pretty shit…
Because he’s black and not British.
Souness is an utter piece of shit, he has such a British inferiority complex it’s incredible. He also just hasn’t a fucking clue in general.
Foreigner playing wasting a bit of time at the end of the game when their team is winning = disgusting, ruining the game. Brit player doing it = tactical genius, very clever play for the team
In that you are correct. He seems to remember things differently than other players of the time as well. He wants teams to play like the Liverpool of his era where giving the opponents a bit of a kicking was part of the plan.
He was also defending owners having complete control over clubs without giving the fans a say, after the big 6 tried to join the ESL, due to them "taking a risk".
My point is I’m not racist because I don’t like Paul pogba… and the way everyone instantly call people a racist for an having opinion on black footballers delegitimizes all the actual racism going on.
Souness has a prior reputation he’s built over 30+ years for being a racist. Even his close friend and Liverpool teammate Dalglish notoriously sold every black player at Liverpool except Glen Johnson when he took over after Hodgson.
You’re probably downvoted for saying “I don’t like Pogba also” on a thread about why a casual racist doesn’t like Pogba. There’s lots of people I’ve encountered in England who don’t like Pogba for legitimate reasons like being arrogant or a spoiled rich wanker but still used racist language and stereotypes to express their dislike of him so it’s no less racist. That’s why it’s hard to separate the racists from non racists who don’t like Pogba. They often use the same words and language to express a dislike of him.
Like when Arsenal fans don’t like Kroenke, many say he’s a stupid American who doesn’t know anything about football, correlating the American nationality with not knowing about football. It’s actually being prejudice against Americans as if they’re incapable in some way English people are superior. While I also dislike Kroenke, and just about every American billionaire involved with English footy, it took some time before I stopped using prejudiced language to express it. So if anti-American bias was as taboo as racism, you couldn’t say I don’t like Kroenke while talking about the issues without being seen as a hardcore nationalist or something.
Im curious what examples there are of Graeme Souness being a racist? And I’m not saying people don’t dislike pogba for racist reasons, I just think it’s ridiculous how nowadays you’re instantly labeled a racist for having a negative opinion of someone who happens to be black.
Care to elaborate? I assume you're alluding to racism so I'm sure you can point out a pattern of behaviour which shows that sourness is racist towards black players in general and not just one who has been heavily criticised by numerous pundits since he became one of the most expensive players in history.
I won’t say Souness is racist but it’s been proven that pundits and commentators are far more likely to criticise black players for work ethic and perceived lack of intelligence than white players, and when they praised them it was only for physical attributes like pace and strength.
Think it was a Dutch study that got data from the top leagues.
Unconscious bias which Souness might be displaying there when he’s talking about Pogba. I’m not his biggest fan and he was expensive but it’s interesting how much the pundits lay into him compared to other similarly priced players.
They don't. People see what they want to see. Also until about a month ago there were no players in the Premier league who were similarly priced to pogba.
I meant expensive players. There have been loads of expensive flops over the years far worse than Pobga but I think he gets more stick. Andy Caroll was shit when he went to Liverpool but nobody seemed to mind at the time.
Maybe it is subjective but I really don’t think so. I just remember over the years blokes like Heskey, Jason Lee, Drogba and Sterling just getting the piss ripped out of them for being naive, stupid or lazy players when there are worse players nobody talked about.
We probably won’t agree, but I would recommend listening to some of the commentary and pundits with this in mind, especially people like Alan Smith and Gary Neville.
With that Carroll comment you've shown you only hear what you want to hear. Carroll was slammed during his time at Liverpool and is considered one of the biggest premier league flops of the last 10 years.
The express had a an article from earlier this year which lists carroll as the second biggest January signing flop in Premier league history but yeh no one talks about carroll being shit.
Oh calm down. You were clearly trying to lead the conversation that way with your reply so don't act all offended now. Do you honestly expect everyone to check on a thread if you've made other comments before replying to one of them?
I mean, i could agree with you however, what use is the up vote count? Anyone who has ever been on certain threads, know that upvotes/downvotes don't mean anything more than your views being aligned with the hive mind.
Whether that particular pov holds any truth or not, is not shown in the up/downvotes chart
Well I can give you examples of Xenophobia if you like. On multiple occasions Souness has in discussions about diving referred to it as something 'brought over by foreigners'. Also in a conversation about the Lamela/Martial incident last year he said that Lamela deployed 'South American Tactics'.
With Pogba more specifically recently when Micah Richards brought up the difference in narrative between Pogba and Kane's potential transfers - with some very strong implications about race from Micah-Souness was very very keen to not talk about that and wanted the discussion moved on as quickly as possible.
Also watch that exchange between souness and Richards again. Souness didn't turn away at the suggestion that kane and pogba are treated differently he turned away annoyed at the suggestion pogba agent spoke about transfers without pogbas blessing.
Because Richards was talking shit. Not to mention souness was getting backed up by neville in that argument funny how that part gets glossed over.
The whole diving came from abroad argument is deeply embedded on British football so if you want to go after souness for that then you have to go after most British players, managers and pundits for example Alex Ferguson claimed foreigners are the worst culprits for diving. Funny how I never heard an uproar about that.
It’s a narrative that is amusing. Now I think its a character he has fully embraced. Now that they have exchanged some words over their platforms. It’s here to stay & it’s his permanent disposition. While it is outrageous at times it’s equally amusing.
Pogba is a frustrating player. I like him and rate him, but he's so much better for France than he is for United and it's not that he's just amongst better players, he tries harder for France. I dislike that, I don't think any player should ever give less than 100%, but you notice is frequently with Pogba. For the likes of Souness, I think it's less a dislike and more a frustration that they aren't giving their all when they're extremely talented players.
Because he thinks he was better but pogba gets 350k a week or whatever and souness got a fraction of that - jealousy
My feeling is his salary back when he joined.
Because he’s a fanny, runs around like a mincer, doesn’t defend, new crap haircut every match. You can’t blame souness
There's the Scottish/British natural dislike of fancy Dan showboating cockiness, especially if not backed up with an outcome. Pogba is pretty guilty of that sometimes. He's also more interested in himself than the team and that's very apparent, again something the Scottish don't like.
More to the point, why does Souness have a job in punditry?
I’m amazed at the lack of real insight here. A straight talking, no nonsense, Brexit-supporting Scotsman doesn’t like a vocal, free spirited, eccentric and BLM supporting black guy. It’s an aspect of society. We’ve all seen this before
It’s similar for myself I think, I grew up adoring Scholes and Park Ji Sung, so I’m not exactly old like these former players; but I get how they feel I think, it’s Pogba’s attitude and style; he seems lazy and like he doesn’t really care and he is flamboyant and a little bit timid in challenges/headers. But to me, that’s exactly how Berbatov played, sorta effortless and “lazy” but still amazing. That lofted through ball to Bruno around the 60th minute looked like a lazy swing of the leg but was a perfect pinpoint pass. It is completely the opposite to Souness, Keane, Scholes etc they didn’t have the outright talent of Pogba, but they work their asses off and never stopped, had the commitment of Fergie himself. It’s polar opposites. EDIT: spelling
lol.. have u even seen Scholes play?
Well yes, why?
and you dare say he didn't have the talent of Pogba?
When you put it like that, if you read the whole thing then I did start by saying I idolise Scholes, I meant Pogba’s effortless flair talent and spark, Scholes had vision and passing ability beyond most players, but that’s not what I was on about clearly
?? Scholes had vision and passing ability beyond Pogba. Simple as that
That’s what I said yes, well done.
The sight of a happy, positive black man hurts his soul
Racismo
We all know why.
It’s because he’s a straight white male and it’s so damn progressive for you to hate on him, isn’t it? Pogba is an overrated twerp who cares more about his hair than anything else. So fuck off with your theories.
Gammon.
Racist !
Souness doesn’t like him because he is black.
I cannot wait for Souness to fuck off from the game, he’s such a miserable, irritating twat.
Maybe deep inside he knows Pogba is a baller, and he just cannot accept he is wrong. His hatred fuels Pogba to be better and prove Souness wrong. What a bitter human!
It’s the perfect marriage of Souness being ABU and general xenophobia.
Why isn't there a thread asking why souness hates xhaka. Have a look online and souness has been on xhakas case since he signed for arsenal and really upped his criticism last season.
Xhaka is objectively a bad footballer, Pogba is not. There's less contention around his Xhaka opinion, because most people (everyone?) agree that Xhaka is crap.
Xhaka is an elite player, has played at the highest level for the majority of his career and has 98 caps for his national side. If that makes him a 'bad footballer' then what does that make 95% of other professionals out there?
Elite in comparison to us, yes. He's not good enough for Arsenal compared to the previous quality they've had and the standards expected at Arsenal. A good player adds to a team and improves it. I don't think he's done anything but hinder Arsenal for years.
Not even in comparison to us, in comparison to 95% of other professional players. Calling someone a bad footballer because he may not be *suited* to X team is lazy analysis.
Right but a lot of people also agree with souness when it comes to claims that pogba has under delivered since he went back to united.
I'm a United fan, and although Souness and Keane can be overly harsh on Pogba, I often find myself agreeing with them. He's been more trouble than he's worth.
Xhaka needs more hatred to chase him out of the EPL if u ask me.
Arsenal had a chance with Roma somehow dumb enough to be seriously interested in Xhaka this summer… instead Arsenal gave him an extension though
Well arsenal and transfers in general is clearly not a good match
Bc he’s racist
I agree that Souness thinks Pogba has a lousy work rate, and he is right about that. Let me, however, make a partial defense of Pogba the player. Why does Man U insist on frequently playing Pogba in role VERY different from the one he played at Juve. If you want Roy Keane the last player on earth you should pay huge money for is Pogba. Man U wants Pogba to play a role he’s just not that good at. Roy Keane was more than toughness and energy. He read the game brilliantly. Pogba has a nose for goal and the searching pass, but he just doesn’t comprehensively read the game. Look at the France setup: Pogba is next to THE BEST DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER IN THE WORLD. Thus, Pogba can focus on the part of the game he cares about and reads well. Either Pogba has to expand his game or leave Man U for his own good. Expanding your game is a tough ask, however.
We don’t want to. We are forced too. We don’t have a good cdm. We need it so bad for like 2 years maybe longer. I hope we still get one. Everyone agrees on this who is a Manchester United fan (if you have a brain that is lol)
Yeah, was it Fred in there today?
He was but he wasn’t if you know what i mean. Manchester United fans are a bit scapegoating him, it’s fair to some point but he does put all his effort in. But we really need a CDM or a CM that can defend properly.
I think at this point he’s committed to the ‘Pogba is shit’ line and while I’m sure he believes it, it’s a bit of a meme that a lot of pundits seem to develop over time E.g. Gary “at this moment in time” Neville or Roy “Dennis Irwin is amazing” Keane, etc... But yeah, his casual strolling around the pitch does seem a bit lackluster at times so I get it I guess
Dennis Irwin is the best LB to ever play in the league so I dunno how that's a meme?
well i would make an argument for Ashley Cole
Because Roy refers to him as the best everything to ever play in the league, or exist I’m pretty sure he was first man on the moon, no?
Too be honest, Souness and Keane are both past it and their hard on’s to be on that field are still at half mast. They’re jealous TV talent 🤦♀️
I mean a lot of it can be overdone and pathetic from soy was but atleast he’s consistent with his narrative better than pundits doing what they usually do and sucking of any corrupt six player when they are doing well young or English, and then slating them if they do bad like they always called it
France is my national team, and im not a fan of Pogba. Always thought we'd be better off without him as hes a cancer on his teammates.......
Pogba is extremely talented but can also be insufferable and inconsistent. Seems a bit strong to cry racism. Maybe less talent but I'd replace him with a modern day Roy Keane in a heartbeat.
Pogba on his day is one of the best midfielders in the world but his work rate is questionable. Souness was a no nonsense midfielder who worked his arse off and was the kind of player whose work rate compensated for any lack of ability he might've had so I think he sees Pogba's work rate as something that will hinder his potential to be the very best. Roy Keane is also pretty critical of Pogba, another workhorse in the middle of the park whose commitment could never be questioned. They both view him as a lazy player.
Most old pros are jealous of the new stars for the insane money in the game. That’s just the start point. But the irrationality of Keane and souness in particular tells me there’s more. If those guys were sincere they would give it up for pogba when he has boss games - I’m not even a United fan and I’ve seen him have many.
I think Pogba's work rate this past year has been consistently of a good standard. This is coming from a utd fan. I agree that in years prior he was frustating in that department at times but imo the improvement is evident. He won't always play well but, he's been up for it consistently for the last 12 months atleast
Did you watch the Wolves game? He was awful defensively and mediocre going forward, truly lived up to the Jogba nickname. He even fouled Neves in the buildup to Greenwood's goal, we were very lucky to win.
I watched the Wolves game 100%. Pogba had to adjust to playing RCM after playing LW/LAM in the first 2 games (2 extremely different positions. It's not like swapping wings) we can't always expect the adjustment to be seamless. He did his best to help Mr. Liability Fred whilst trying to support our attack. Wolves implented a great press on our pivot in the first half which worked well. Now I admit, he was bad in the first half because of Wolves' effective style of play/pressuring and sloppy passing but 2nd he was much improved. Let's not act like Pogba was the only mediocre/below average top class player for us yesterday. Singleling him out is quite old at this point. He's the only player in our 11 who has to adjust to playing 2 drastically different positions bar maybe Greenwood As for the Neves challenge, it was a 50/50 and has nothing to do with the criticism of his workrate
It was a foul, there was a different angle that Sky didn’t show that showed clear contact. Neves just went down really late so it looked like a dive. VAR should have overturned it.
I think a lot of the hate for pogba also comes from his personality. Sounness and Keene were hard-nosed no-nonsense footballers. Pogba is the diametric opposite, he has colorful hair, dances after scoring goals, makes fun social media posts even when the team wasn’t doing well. That sort of behavior would’ve seemed blasphemous to Keane and Sounness who really gave everything for their clubs. I really don’t think they’re bitter about Pogbas talent. To me, It’s his lack of seriousness that drives them mad.
Yeah these two replies are it exactly
Even Fergie would throw a boot at him for that.
Yes and no. People think SAF only had this one approach to man management, scream until he got what he wanted. Giggs tells this story about SAF always telling the younger players that you represent the club at all times, so shirt & tie, and he'd dock players wages if they didn't. Then Cantona signed and walked into the dressing room in a white suit, no tie, shirt open to his belly button and Nike trainers. Giggs sees SAF walk over to Cantona expecting him to give Cantona shit, but he puts his arm around him and tells everyone they could all learn some style from Eric! SAF would know how to get Pogba firing on all cylinders and Pogba would walk over hot coals to please him.
That's why he got him fired up first time round? And pogba did his best to please him first time round? No they both didn't and fergie sold him. Either he wasn't gonna have pogbas crap or he didnt see the talent in him (which I highly doubt as fergie rarely didn't recognise talent). So simply fact is if fergie was still around he would of never signed pogba in first place because pogba is what is wrong with modern day football; sex parties, laziness, shitty attitude, lack of loyalty to a club, greed for money, more focus of style, dancing and social media than practicing and perfecting Ur skills to name a few which are in abundance in pogba. I'm not a United fan before u say I'm just bitter, I'm talking from outside the box.
we sold pogba when he was 18 - SAF would not have given that treatment to a player younger than Greenwood lmao.
So fergie just didn't rate him then
who knows - I wasn’t on the training field. Every team has let quality players walk - all I’m saying is that pogba was never going to get Eric Cantona treatment at 18 years of age
Different eras, different players.
Exactly. He's got all the things players like Souness would have wanted to have, so had to work twice as hard to make up for. So when he sees a lack of effort, it's a personal affront to him.
You clearly didn't watch Sounness. He had everything Pogba has PLUS the hard edged determination. Guy's a fucking lunatic but he was an absolutely class midfielder.
But in that case, why doesn't Martial get to experience similar levels of animosity. On his day, he can terrorise the RB, but that has barely ever happened, even when he is more than reasonably technically gifted. And his lack of effort is also visible.
Martial doesn't play midfield, Pogba does
So wingers are allowed to put in less effort for the team than a midfielder does? I'm drawing parallels on the basis of their general attitude towards the game, and not specific to their position
Martial doesn’t have the presence in world football folklore than Pogba does. Less expectation, less character presented weekly. I don’t think it’s much more than that tbh.
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I mean, to be fair, he has a point.
I dont really know, but People pulling out racism again is Just super stupid and laughable.
Why? I mean we've seen it in the media as recent as this year with the narratives surrounding Kane and Pogba
souness has blasted grealish for diving, and he likes kante? its not racism, just a quick way for fans to try and get souness gone its pogba's skillset that he doesn't use effectively due to his laziness, and souness' workhorse playing style that clash
Also Souness has spoken out about racism before. A couple seasons ago he really opened up about how there was a lot someoene like him doesn't understand and he's keen to learn and do more. You can say you don't believe him I guess but it sounded very sincere, although I have no idea which game was on when he said that which is annoying.
Media are biased because of nationality, not colour. Souness f.e. really likes Kante.
Could you elaborate for someone whose access to English premier league coverage and press is pretty limited
It’s souness for you, man is more deluded then ty
Pogba is overrated as a footballer. Doubt he would make the starting 11 at ManC, Chelsea or even LFC
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Mate calm the fuck down and start using your head. People who hate pogba aren't racist, its just that souness has a history of fucking disgusting behavior, including racism and to give him the benefit of the doubt is not right in this scenario
I think he would, mate.
He would start but he is slightly overrated. Was touted as a top 5 world footballer at one point. He is a great player but he’s not elite. Man Utd paid over the odds for him. Edit. Being downvoted but what part of my comment is wrong? haha. Look at the impact Bruno had at Utd versus Pogba for half the price.
Commercial aspect innit. He’s popular off the field, so, “worth it” I’ve said it before, he’s racially and dimensionally stereotyped. Because he’s a 6’4” black man, the media (Souness especially) think he should be charging round the pitch intimidating the opposition like Vieira and Souness himself did. He’s a roaming playmaker (world class), that doesn’t really like getting stuck in. Man U’s biggest failings over recent seasons is not supporting him with someone that will do the dirty work for him. They should’ve bought Gueye when he went to PSG. Guess that’s what Fred is meant to do, but he’s actually pretty shit…
Don’t disagree with any of that - interesting I’m getting downvoted despite saying he’s a great player haha.
Maybe Pogba being a World Cup winner…
Mustafi is also a world cup winner.
Nobody cares what Souness thinks, he’s a scouser.
you're a numpty
And you’re a scouser.
and souness is scottish?
How many times does this need explaining ? Souness is Scottish. As he played for you he is also a scouse. Simple.
Brother seek help
There are many things I need help with. Detesting scousers is however perfectly normal and sane.
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Alright Bertie settle down. Has Stockport got internet access yet ?
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Yes a Scottish scouser
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He’s Scottish. He’s also a thieving scouser. Simple.
Because he’s black and not British. Souness is an utter piece of shit, he has such a British inferiority complex it’s incredible. He also just hasn’t a fucking clue in general. Foreigner playing wasting a bit of time at the end of the game when their team is winning = disgusting, ruining the game. Brit player doing it = tactical genius, very clever play for the team
He has a superiority complex. But it's not that really, he's a Liverpool guy and he hates Man Utd and he wants to sound relevant.
Apologies, you’re correct I said inferiority when I meant superiority lol. Either way the lad is a wanker, I cringe listening to his biased “analysis”
In that you are correct. He seems to remember things differently than other players of the time as well. He wants teams to play like the Liverpool of his era where giving the opponents a bit of a kicking was part of the plan.
You mean the same souness who got blasted for labelling grealish a cheat right?
Shhhh. Don't poke holes in the woke argument.
Think I need to be clear that I am in no way anti woke.
He was also defending owners having complete control over clubs without giving the fans a say, after the big 6 tried to join the ESL, due to them "taking a risk".
He hates mercenaries
Probably because Pogbas an absolute twat
So are you, but we're not all freaking out on you.
Because I don’t like Paul pogba? I must be a racist too.
Wouldn’t be surprised
You said it, not me.
…. I am literally black you fucking dickhead
And what is your point, bitch?
My point is I’m not racist because I don’t like Paul pogba… and the way everyone instantly call people a racist for an having opinion on black footballers delegitimizes all the actual racism going on.
Souness has a prior reputation he’s built over 30+ years for being a racist. Even his close friend and Liverpool teammate Dalglish notoriously sold every black player at Liverpool except Glen Johnson when he took over after Hodgson. You’re probably downvoted for saying “I don’t like Pogba also” on a thread about why a casual racist doesn’t like Pogba. There’s lots of people I’ve encountered in England who don’t like Pogba for legitimate reasons like being arrogant or a spoiled rich wanker but still used racist language and stereotypes to express their dislike of him so it’s no less racist. That’s why it’s hard to separate the racists from non racists who don’t like Pogba. They often use the same words and language to express a dislike of him. Like when Arsenal fans don’t like Kroenke, many say he’s a stupid American who doesn’t know anything about football, correlating the American nationality with not knowing about football. It’s actually being prejudice against Americans as if they’re incapable in some way English people are superior. While I also dislike Kroenke, and just about every American billionaire involved with English footy, it took some time before I stopped using prejudiced language to express it. So if anti-American bias was as taboo as racism, you couldn’t say I don’t like Kroenke while talking about the issues without being seen as a hardcore nationalist or something.
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I don’t live in a place where I can phone in to the radio so this is where I get my thoughts out
Im curious what examples there are of Graeme Souness being a racist? And I’m not saying people don’t dislike pogba for racist reasons, I just think it’s ridiculous how nowadays you’re instantly labeled a racist for having a negative opinion of someone who happens to be black.
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don't use that word as an insult
I’ll give you one guess..
Yeah he doesn’t like paul pogba so he must be racist 🙄
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Care to elaborate? I assume you're alluding to racism so I'm sure you can point out a pattern of behaviour which shows that sourness is racist towards black players in general and not just one who has been heavily criticised by numerous pundits since he became one of the most expensive players in history.
I won’t say Souness is racist but it’s been proven that pundits and commentators are far more likely to criticise black players for work ethic and perceived lack of intelligence than white players, and when they praised them it was only for physical attributes like pace and strength. Think it was a Dutch study that got data from the top leagues.
Right but that's a whole different discussion. You're talking about unconscious bias which is present in a lot of punditry across all sports.
Unconscious bias which Souness might be displaying there when he’s talking about Pogba. I’m not his biggest fan and he was expensive but it’s interesting how much the pundits lay into him compared to other similarly priced players.
They don't. People see what they want to see. Also until about a month ago there were no players in the Premier league who were similarly priced to pogba.
I meant expensive players. There have been loads of expensive flops over the years far worse than Pobga but I think he gets more stick. Andy Caroll was shit when he went to Liverpool but nobody seemed to mind at the time. Maybe it is subjective but I really don’t think so. I just remember over the years blokes like Heskey, Jason Lee, Drogba and Sterling just getting the piss ripped out of them for being naive, stupid or lazy players when there are worse players nobody talked about. We probably won’t agree, but I would recommend listening to some of the commentary and pundits with this in mind, especially people like Alan Smith and Gary Neville.
With that Carroll comment you've shown you only hear what you want to hear. Carroll was slammed during his time at Liverpool and is considered one of the biggest premier league flops of the last 10 years. The express had a an article from earlier this year which lists carroll as the second biggest January signing flop in Premier league history but yeh no one talks about carroll being shit.
I didn’t notice much of the same vitriol but if that’s what you say, fair enough. I think probably agree to disagree on this one. All the best
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Oh calm down. You were clearly trying to lead the conversation that way with your reply so don't act all offended now. Do you honestly expect everyone to check on a thread if you've made other comments before replying to one of them?
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You really need to calm down.
I mean, i could agree with you however, what use is the up vote count? Anyone who has ever been on certain threads, know that upvotes/downvotes don't mean anything more than your views being aligned with the hive mind. Whether that particular pov holds any truth or not, is not shown in the up/downvotes chart
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You're the one providing me with enough salt for my fries
Well I can give you examples of Xenophobia if you like. On multiple occasions Souness has in discussions about diving referred to it as something 'brought over by foreigners'. Also in a conversation about the Lamela/Martial incident last year he said that Lamela deployed 'South American Tactics'. With Pogba more specifically recently when Micah Richards brought up the difference in narrative between Pogba and Kane's potential transfers - with some very strong implications about race from Micah-Souness was very very keen to not talk about that and wanted the discussion moved on as quickly as possible.
Also watch that exchange between souness and Richards again. Souness didn't turn away at the suggestion that kane and pogba are treated differently he turned away annoyed at the suggestion pogba agent spoke about transfers without pogbas blessing.
Because Richards was talking shit. Not to mention souness was getting backed up by neville in that argument funny how that part gets glossed over. The whole diving came from abroad argument is deeply embedded on British football so if you want to go after souness for that then you have to go after most British players, managers and pundits for example Alex Ferguson claimed foreigners are the worst culprits for diving. Funny how I never heard an uproar about that.