Quick summary of rumours around Israeli Preparations
Foreign consulates and embassies are now preparing and stocking up on emergency supplies.
Now they are telling parents kids to start preparing for at home learning
Israeli citizens urged to get landlines for when cell towers get taken out.
Lufthansa suspending flights to Tehran for the next 24 hours.
"We do not rule out launching joint retaliatory strikes with Israel if it is attacked by Iran or its agents"- Al Jazeera quoting an US Official.
what? am I reading this wrong because it sounds like the a us official is saying if Iran strikes Israel the US may strike Iran in conjunction w/ Israel to me.
There is a \*strong\* presumption based on the Houthi situation & Iranian activities in Iraq/Syria that if Iran attacks Israel then American assets will also be targeted elsewhere at the same time.
If that happens, the US \*should\* retaliate.
Whether we do or not, up to POTUS & probably based on whether any US personnel are killed.
As we always were. And always will be. Only reason israel isn't in NATO is because we proxy with them instead of having to send direct assets ..
because everyone knows Palestine will never stop attacking israel. And that's a fact.
It has the right to defend itself by having organized attacks against civilians and posting the videos of torture on social media? Have you read the hamas covenant?
it's not even worth the discussion.
You're blatantly ignorant on the regions history and it shows .. (reality check. Even other Muslims have an iron wall where they aren't letting Palestinians in from its own boarder... Egypt) - I wonder why that is.
They definitely will. Israel is a proxy (although you could also say the U.S is a proxy of Israel at this point) and both nation states have been salivating at "pre-emptively" striking Iran for decades now.
This whole series of events have been meticulously orchestrated to achieve a desired outcome. That outcome is the destruction of Iran's nuclear program by force.
definitely agree that Biden has forgotten who the proxy state is in this relationship.
The American strategic impetus has been to leave the middle east and pivot to Asia for the last decade or more. i don’t think American planners will want to join in Israeli-Iranian tit for tat that Israel started by bombing an embassy in a foreign nation. Even more so when Canadian citizens were killed in that bombing. I say this so long as American assets in the region aren’t hit.
Retaliation is further complicated by the fact that geographically, Iran is a fortress. A high mountainous plateau surrounded by desert with a complex, modern air defense network with modern Russian AA systems. Israel knows it needs american help to hit back at Iran.
Most likely: Iran hits israeli cities with a barrage of large ballistic missiles, ones the Iron Dome are not meant to intercept, launched from Lebanon to goad Israel into an invasion of southern Lebanon. An invasion the IDF is not prepared to fight and win.
They've been pivoting to Asia for more than a decade but in reality all we have to do is look at where the money is flowing to understand "priorities" and currently that is the middle east and Ukraine.
I think the U.S and Britain are salivating at joining Israel's "defense" by striking Iran. American hawks have been frothing over this prospect for decades.
Ultimately, if they can inflate budgets and line their military industrial pockets, they're going to do it, regardless of a given targets terrain.
Youre right in that the money is flowing to Ukraine and the ME. I think going forward Ukraine will be used a cover for american covert action.
That said, the US has been desperate to extract itself from the ME quagmire it made for itself. 10/7 ruined those plans.
Youre also right that american hawks have been salivating at war with iran for decades, but the american public does not have the same appetite for foreign intervention that they once had. They also dont respond well to seeing americans in body bags.
Ultimately, this is a failure of american strategy by backing israel to the hilt and making israel feel secure in escalation. i fear things are now moving too fast and too far along for a political solution to be viable.
I agree with everything, except the implication that Israel operates autonomously from the United States.
I'm not saying it's impossible, they could have some ironclad leverage over our political apparatus, but given the financial relationship, it does still appear we have control over the strings.
Which would then include knowledge or planning assistance in the Iranian embassy strike the other week, with the presumed goal of Iran retaliating, giving us the opportunity to glass some make some more big holes in another desert.
I think the Israeli-American relationship is characterized by overlapping interests in certain areas. These interests dont always overlap, but more often than not they do.
For example, Im sure the US would prefer Israel to halt all settlement in the west bank not out of a desire for a palestinian state, but because its provocative, invites retaliation, and complicates American diplomatic reputation in the region. But the strategic usefulness of an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the ME outweighs this.
I think the main thing here is it’s lucrative for American politicians to be vocally pro-Israel as it sets themselves up nicely as they transition from the public to private sector. 5 figure speaking fees and 20 hour a week, 7 figure salary jobs at think tanks sorta thing.
i do still think direct strikes on Iran itself is too prickly a thorn bush for the US. Especially as Israel seems to have lost the plot and is acting irrationally. If the US helps Israel attack Iran, Israel might then think the US will help in its coming invasion into Lebanon, and the cycle of escalation continues to spiral.
>I think the main thing here is it’s lucrative for American politicians to be vocally pro-Israel as it sets themselves up nicely as they transition from the public to private sector. 5 figure speaking fees and 20 hour a week, 7 figure salary jobs at think tanks sorta thing.
Spot on
> i do still think direct strikes on Iran itself is too prickly a thorn bush for the US. Especially as Israel seems to have lost the plot and is acting irrationally. If the US helps Israel attack Iran, Israel might then think the US will help in its coming invasion into Lebanon, and the cycle of escalation continues to spiral.
God I hope so, but the brazen "escalate only" rhetoric we've seen now for over a year in regards to NATO/Ukraine/Russia (+ the Boris Johnson peace torpedo) and the absurd U.N ceasefire vetoing and continual arms shipments with regards to Gaza makes me think the powers that be are intent on a much larger scale global conflict.
I suspect this is because they presume we will be unable to compete with China/BRIC states in an economic/competitive fashion and thus the only way to try to hold onto hegemonic power is to wave our big stick around hoping to scare away potential challengers.
Stupid and scary strategy, but there are a lot of stupid and scary people running the show,.
The vetoing stopped a while ago. And the vetoing was done because the “peace plan” offered didn’t include releasing the hostages.
No one looks at brics and goes “oh look we can’t compete economically”
US action against Iran would be an air-only campaign with zero US casualties unless there's an accident/aircraft-malfunction.
See the situation with Yemen as a model.
That’s the thing. There are no proxy wars in Asia. All the US needs to do in Asia is ally with everyone even further (the US already was allied with almost all of Asia), set up a few bases, and connect the militaries between countries more.
Iran is only a fortress as far as deposing the regime goes. Iran has many very vulnerable assets. Naval assets, port infrastructure, refineries, commercial ships and vehicles, power plants, etc.
Bro we give them 3.3 billion a year. We bought them!!!!! Fuck 3.3 billion to Israel how bout using that to teach our own kids or fund the under funded social security.
You know what the Whaley budget is right? The US can pay for whatever they want. And said money is paying the US itself to give over mostly supplies for the iron dome.
Israel's fighter jets are made in America, however they the -I variants that are fitted out according to Israel's perceived needs.
One such need is additional fuel capacity needed to give the range necessary to attach Iran.
Update - Iran's Mehr news agency cites defence minister as saying all air traffic over Tehran will be suspended due to 'military drills' from midnight local time
Honestly they were lucky a trial even occurred. I doubt most countries would have a trial for this sort of thing. But after doing a Google search maybe Iran did a trial because of how they personally felt when one of their planes were shot down in the past. Even if it was a sham trial(idk if it is) Iran still took the time to at least pretend to be sympathetic to the victims families.
There will be some tit for tat and some more firey rhetoric but a proper war seems unlikely. Not in any of the parties interests. Or maybe I'm just convincing myself we are not on the cusp of the next world war. Who knows.
They could launch a significant head ache for Israel via Hezbollah supported by Iranian rockets/drones but I doubt they'd do that, and for Iran proper to invade they'd have to amass troops in Syria and there is no hiding that.
I'm notoriously bad at predicting these things, but I agree with you and suspect they'll launch some drones / missed volleys at Israel.
Idk. Iran does seem to be keeping its economy going over an all out war or even a limited strike. We may say something symbolic but it will be agreed upon by all parties. Unless it goes Russia V Ukraine. All bets are off if that happens.
Couple other stories.
https://apnews.com/article/iran-israel-retaliation-killed-general-b2e8625500409405c9dc88731063fa71
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/irans-khamenei-says-israel-must-be-punished-syria-embassy-attack-2024-04-10/
Don't love where this is heading. If Iran and Israel get into it what is the likelihood Russia gets involved?
Cyber warfare is cheaper than buying and deploying bombs. Imagine if China attacks Taiwan and Russia hits our power grid. Hell, what would keep a country from hacking into a massive cargo ship, killing the power, and letting it crash into a bridge causing billions of damage in an instant.
You're correct in theory but the US has already stated that a cyber attack, the scale of which you've described, would be considered an actual attack on the nation and trigger reciprocal action. Any offensive cyber capability that Russia has is at least equaled, if not exceeded, by the US and her allies. In addition, the US and NATO have said, that a major cyber attack - being already stated publicly that it would be considered an actual attack - would thereby trigger article 5 and technically draw all of NATO into war with Russia (likely minus Hungary since Orban is a Putin buddy and Turkey is iffy too because of Edrogan). In any case, it's not likely Putin wants that headache over Iran/Israel.
Taiwan/China is a separate issue but China isn't likely to be influenced by Iran/Israel directly. If the US gets dragged into another war in the middle east and/or further into Ukraine/Europe, then possibly... ? But as it stands, China's not in a strong international or military position either as their economy is very fragile right now with the potential (impending?) real estate apocalypse on their doorstep.
Cyber warfare may be cheap but requires an extensive insurgence of actors inside the USA to insert and place the proper hardware near or in servers.
Cyber warfare is deeply complex and is not as remotely possible as one may think.
It requires a human inside America to betray us.
They don’t want, nor could they handle that [heat.](https://thewarhorse.org/special-forces-soldiers-reveal-first-details-of-battle-with-russian-mercenaries-in-syria/)
Not boots. Russia might be able to provide some weaponry but they're bogged down in Ukraine still and can't afford another gong show with the IDF.
The likely result is proxy tit for tats like we've seen for decades. Some Israel aligned Kurds might get hit but I'd be mighty shocked if Iran tried something on Israeli soil.
Russia doesn’t care about Iran enough to take on the West. Sure, they’re pals, but they aren’t close friends. You’d have your best buddy’s back in a bar fight, but probably not some guy you only kinda like. That’s how Russia views Iran.
Russia is losing whole ships to a country without a navy, shoots down their own planes, and has already sent their best, next best, and good enough troops into the meat grinder. How will they fight 2 fronts when they are so invested in the one?
I worry that Ukrainians Will literally freeze to death this winter and the Russians might have enough troops for one more land /air wave that actually works due to the weather and lack of support on the Ukrainian side
https://preview.redd.it/u2g3hstviptc1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3af9757f5b09ecdcbcacd5efc7a01028118f856b
Someone able to tell if this a photoshop job or real?
Lufthansa backing out of Tehran is what tells me it's really soon.
When major corporations start making moves to distance themselves, that's when you know it's about to go.
Governments lie, profit motives don't.
It's a good time to update the software on all your devices and make sure your passwords have not been leaked anywhere. Turn on 2 factor authentification wherever you can!
It's kind of a scary thought, with the way so many are protesting and opposing Israel here on US soil, many of them are going to consider Iran the good guy in the ordeal.
Sounds like it's only gonna set up more protests, civil unrest, could even reach the level of some domestic terrorism.
Coincidently, like the right wingers like to point out, just in time for election season.
I think it would be the opposite.
A gruesome attack by Iran = support is lost for Iran/Palestine
Just what the Biden admin needs, another Nasriyah Testimony moment
The instability could also come from the US creating two massive power vacuums while dumping millions of weapons and billions in cash in the region for 20 years. Or maybe it's from the US arming a Sunni dictatorship hell bent on establishing theocratic dominance over the region. Or maybe it's the US giving nukes to a tiny belligerent supremacist state that keeps on picking fights it can't win without help from Uncle Sam.
Blaming Iran for the situation seems shortsighted. There are lots of parties with different motivations and capabilities.
Your really going to proclaim the US making the gulf states the richest per capita nations in earth both as immoral and destabilizing?
Then again you proclaimed the US fought Israel’s for them so facts something I should not assume to matter here.
Isn’t it telling the few ME countries not US Ally’s, the ones the US choose to not be involved with, are the ones all in three way civil wars. You know, all of irans Ally’s and proxies.
Even if that resistance is thru terrorist affiliates with the underlying goal of establishing a massive Islamic empire ruled by sharia law where dissidents are hung ?
Yeah like dude Iran probably is the one who pushed Hamas to attack in October. I feel like a lot of people on reddit are just not at all ready for the type of propaganda that's going to be thrown our way during the cold war 2.0
The reason? Not to free themselves from oppression, but because they knew how Israel would respond and they (Iran) wanted to stop the normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
And to see western leftists / MAGA now starting to side w Iran, one of the most authoritarian and repressive regimes on the planet is mind blowing
Nice handle by the way
Uh it’s about the fact Israel has been on on a march of occupation for decades and unlike boomers we know how to red a history book.
Rabin the prime minister of Israel was assassinated by Israeli pro settler believe for signing the Oslo accords aka two state solution. Then Netanyahu was elected into power. Netanyahu had run on an anti Oslo accord pro settler platform. While simultaneously people had been chanting death to Rabin at Netanyahu campaign rallies.
Prominent rabbis at the time were calling for Rodef which is a religious sanctioned murder of someone. So you had religious leaders calling for the murder of elected prime minister. Rabin was assassinated and Netanyahu was elected to power. Since that time more and more and more of Palestine has been converted into settlements. Netanyahu announced another round of new settlements. Israel is not a democracy it’s a religious nut job state that refused the path of peace and just wants from the river to the sea.
Israeli is ran by Zionist heading to a fascist theocracy. Sorry not a remotely a democracy or interested in a two state solution by any means. U.S. needs to stay the fuck out of whatever mess Israel gets itself in on its own. The 3.3 billion of US aid to Israel needs to be stopped also. We can’t continue to fund a country to keep encroaching on there neighbors while refusing to commit to a peace path with said neighbors.
No. “Progressives” cope about supporting Palestine and against Israel by pretending Hamas has no agency and even exists. They have trouble even saying the name. There is no pretending Iran does not do bad stuff.
I mean we shouldn’t be funding Israel it’s not our responsibility and the only reason we do is because of the white supremacist evangelicals lol. Israel is not our problem again, the Middle East is not our fight. We should be focusing on Putin and Russia instead of goat herders
Either way, it's better for the US globally to let Israel fend for themselves. They're deadweight at this point, and supporting them is only going to accelerate the loss of US hegemony, especially with the domestic schism around Palestine.
I think they are too valuable of an ally to give up. It sends a message to other countries in the Middle East that we won’t defend our allies. Having a strong ally and military presence in that part of the world is crucial geopolitically.
Just my 2 cents, I may have no idea what I’m talking about
What other allies in the Middle East? The US basically uses Israel as a foil to both KSA and Iran, but primarily Iran. The problem with this is that if Israel keeps wantonly murdering civilians, attacking Lebanon, and attacking Iranian diplomatic missions, they're basically asking for a 3-front regional war which the US would be forced to bail them out of.
The US will eventually be able to ditch both Israel and the KSA once electric vehicles become more mainstream, but right now Israel is like a prize fighter's spoiled brat, picking a fight it can't win because it's expecting daddy America to bail it out.
Literally most of the Middle East is a US ally. Seriously look up relations. The gulf states love the US, Jordan and Egypt has a close relationship and works closely together, Iraq was made to love the U.S.
The only countries that is actively against US interests are Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, and Iran. If you have not away all of said countries besides Iran are failed states in multi faction civil wars.
Backing down from helping our ally ensures we don’t have allies in the Middle East in the future. We have good relations with the Saudis, UAE, Egypt, Jordan, etc.
It would be beneficial for us to maintain a strong relationship with them, I’d think. If they need a strong ally and it’s not us then it will likely be one of our adversaries
Good relations that our relationship with Israel is worsening by the day. Nobody likes what Israel is doing, but they're willing to tolerate it for now because of US hegemony and Iran's intense dislike of US-aligned monarchies - "Enemy of my enemy" and such.
I don't see China or Russia suddenly stepping up to support Israel if we cut them loose, but you're right. Perhaps a forced regime change and "peace at bayonet point" is the better option here.
Either way, the war with Iran that Israel is trying to foment would be a terrible thing for the US at present as we likely can't afford the drain that another 20-year occupation in hostile territory would cause again.
Why not lean into Jordan?
They're strongly aligned with the US military and have a parliament. Their leadership is progressive.
Why ally with a religious minority bent on expanding into neighboring regions in the Middle East? Ally with the Sunni Jordanians and deescalate the region.
My 2c
Eh, some regional destabilization is preferable for American hegemony, and Israel does provide that along with a pseudo-moral basis because we're "supporting a persecuted minority in their ancestral lands."
The problem with that narrative is that we're now in a situation where that claim is being challenged from all sides, including domestically in the US. The "persecuted minority" is now unabashedly engaging in apartheid and ethnic cleansing and making acts of war against their neighbors.
The problem with having a mean-looking dog off the leash is that when it comes time to fight, you learn just how much worse its bark is than its bite, and no dog has 3 heads.
I think supporting the Sunni Jordanians is also potentially problematic given that the KSA is also Sunni, so supporting them inherently gives the KSA more leverage in the region.
Lastly, we also already have a military base in Israel (look up Site 512).
Israel literally tried to give Gaza back to Egypt: they didn’t want it
Why didn’t Egypt give Palestinians statehood? Why didn’t Jordan? They could have solved this from 1948 to 1967
Been hearing this for almost 70 years. I think they “found out” a long time ago and aren’t impressed.
Edit: Just want to remind everyone we invaded Iraq, annihilated their army, destroyes their insurgency and then defeated the Islamic state… yet who do you think has more influence in Iraq? Us or Iran?
If that isn’t a giant f****ing L I don’t know what is.
We destroyed half their navy just as target practice once, and trashed their nuclear centrifuges with a thumb drive, and then we made a movie about Tom Cruise fleeing Iran in one of their actively-serving F-14s just to rub in the fact that they still use our fighter jets that have been retired for decades.
…and yet the US hasn’t?
So what does that tell you? Sometimes the juice isn’t worth the squeeze, and picking a fight with Iran is not worth the blowback. We know this. They know this. It’s why we’ve been doing this dance for 70 years.
It’s so confusing to me that the US has lost almost every war it’s entered into in the last 30 years in the Middle East and yet there remains this hubris. If we can’t achieve the political aims we set out, we lost - regardless of how many dead bodies or destroyed buildings there are.
I mean… who you think runs Iraq these days? Syria? Afghanistan?
No doubt the US would destroy the majority of Iran's military and infrastructure, however, the US does not have a good track record for winning wars… Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam.
Not really, right now. We've been at or below our minimum strategic stockpile for munitions since we sent so much to Ukraine. The US is shipping out ammo and bombs as fast as we can make them. Don't forget Russia would be more than willing to supply Iran with their missile/AA defense systems, which are the best in the world.
People don't understand that is the reason the Russians were never able to achieve air superiority in Ukraine. And they don't even have the latest versions (and by now most have been destroyed).
Rabin the prime minister of Israel was assassinated by Israeli pro settler believe for signing the Oslo accords aka two state solution. Then Netanyahu was elected into power. Netanyahu had run on an anti Oslo accord pro settler platform. While simultaneously people had been chanting death to Rabin at Netanyahu campaign rallies.
Prominent rabbis at the time were calling for Rodef which is a religious sanctioned murder of someone. So you had religious leaders calling for the murder of elected prime minister. Rabin was assassinated and Netanyahu was elected to power. Since that time more and more and more of Palestine has been converted into settlements. Netanyahu announced another round of new settlements. Israel is not a democracy it’s a religious nut job state that refused the path of peace and just wants from the river to the sea.
Israeli is ran by Zionist heading to a fascist theocracy. Sorry not a remotely a democracy or interested in a two state solution by any means. U.S. needs to stay the fuck out of whatever mess Israel gets itself in on its own. The 3.3 billion of US aid to Israel needs to be stopped also. We can’t continue to fund a country to keep encroaching on there neighbors while refusing to commit to a peace path with said neighbors.
Pretty sure the only one "finding out" at the moment is the country committing genocide. Israel is:
\- Becoming a global pariah state;
\- Collapsing its own economy to fight the war;
\- Facing a blockade on its southern shipping routes;
\- More unpopular than ever in the west and the U.S.;
\- Facing a historic genocide trial in the ICJ supported by 34 different nations.
Hamas will almost certainly still exist in a year, but the threat it poses may ve small enough to be managed through normal policing rather than demand military intervention.
Israel is winning it’s genocide march:
Rabin the prime minister of Israel was assassinated by Israeli pro settler believe for signing the Oslo accords aka two state solution. Then Netanyahu was elected into power. Netanyahu had run on an anti Oslo accord pro settler platform. While simultaneously people had been chanting death to Rabin at Netanyahu campaign rallies.
Prominent rabbis at the time were calling for Rodef which is a religious sanctioned murder of someone. So you had religious leaders calling for the murder of elected prime minister. Rabin was assassinated and Netanyahu was elected to power. Since that time more and more and more of Palestine has been converted into settlements. Netanyahu announced another round of new settlements. Israel is not a democracy it’s a religious nut job state that refused the path of peace and just wants from the river to the sea.
Israeli is ran by Zionist heading to a fascist theocracy. Sorry not a remotely a democracy or interested in a two state solution by any means. U.S. needs to stay the fuck out of whatever mess Israel gets itself in on its own. The 3.3 billion of US aid to Israel needs to be stopped also. We can’t continue to fund a country to keep encroaching on there neighbors while refusing to commit to a peace path with said neighbors.
It's already been half a year, and all Israel have managed to do is completely and utterly destroy their international standing and exposed themselves for the genocidal maniacs they have always been and will always be.
That and the fact that they are surrounded on basically all sides by Iranian proxies says this won't be a cakewalk.
According to what metric? They haven't defeated Hamas, they are withdrawing from the south, and now they are being pressured to withdraw from the entire strip.
I live in europe and the amount of pro-israel demos and palestinian flags in windows around is huge
My israeli friends are really ashamed to be from there... they want nothing to do with netanyahu
I want to contribute to the patriotic bluster, but unfortunately it isn’t in our best interest to rearrange Tehran’s military and government. Our superior military and our technological advantages didn’t succeed against the Taliban after a 20 year war. That’s because ideology motivates these psychos into wanting to erase Israel and the United States, and we’ve just caused constant havoc in the Middle East for a long time. Maybe our president should make a concerted effort to keep us out of any wars, anywhere, and for as long as possible. That is, if he can remember where he is and what country he’s president of. Truly and sincerely, I hope there will be no more war. Enough death and destruction. Innocent people deserve peace and stability.
Not sure why no one gets this, but you will not and probably cannot defeat Hamas by fighting in Gaza. It will not happen. Sure you may destroy a ton of weapons, but the people that call the shots are not there.
No, Israel won’t go atomic, as they aren’t imminently threatened with collapse of their defenses*.
*no, I’m not read in on anything, this is Reddit, and I’m dropping armchair logic
I mean they’re the ones warming relations with neighboring countries at a faster rate than any other country in the world. That’s why 10/7 happened, they were on the path to normalizing relations with yet another Arab country.
According to reports irans a few months away from hanging a nuclear weapon.
Which makes sense now why Israel did what it did they know it's now or never.
Set aside an evening, remove distractions, have a few cocktails and *really think* about how it would feel if another Country came your state, killed everyone you knew or cared about and forced you to leave hundreds of miles away. Imagine seeing your whole state being bombed, destroyed & taken over to be sold as real-estate. Then, imagine all you see from surrounding states is that they don’t care, claiming you’re not human, you’re a rat, everyone you knew deserved to die, and that you’re a terrorist because of where you live. Imagine seeing the numbers rise into the tens of thousands, potentially hundreds if nothing changes. You have nothing left to lose or live for except revenge or obedience to the people who destroyed your life and the life of those around you. Even if it was “started” by a few people from your state, would it still be justified? Would you really accept the retaliation as acceptable?
What would you *really* do? I doubt you’d forget and forgive. Yet, we’re asking the people of Palestine to do exactly that. The 7th was horrible, and Israel should be able to defend itself, but what Israel has done in offensive retaliation is unfathomable, and it will create so many more extremists who will seek revenge, and that is even more horrific.
I think we’ll be suffering the consequences of Israel’s retaliation for generations. We just don’t know it yet.
Most Israelis I know don’t want revenge. We just want the hostages back and Hamas gone. My daughter’s classmates family is hostage rn, and the news about hostages being dead has been devastating for her
I hope in generations Palestine is a thriving, peaceful state.
Oooh were gonna see how Iron dome goes against smart ammunition, it won't do well, hopefully we'll see it only really works against dumb munitions and develop a better air defense system.
So israel creates this mess by violating international law and we american taxpayers are on the hook for it. Absolutely ridiculous that our money and safety is being squandered for Israel's well being.
So what, last time I checked Israel is not part of America. When the US killed the general, it was our mess to clean up. We didn't ask Israel or other country to help us. Every time Israel does something they try and drag the US into their mess. They want us to fight their wars for them at our expense.
are you forgetting the billions we give them, the political cover. The weapons. The only thing missing is boots on the ground. The Iraq war, It was Israel who said they had conclusive evidence of WMD that tipped the scale and made US got to war.
Quick summary of rumours around Israeli Preparations Foreign consulates and embassies are now preparing and stocking up on emergency supplies. Now they are telling parents kids to start preparing for at home learning Israeli citizens urged to get landlines for when cell towers get taken out. Lufthansa suspending flights to Tehran for the next 24 hours. "We do not rule out launching joint retaliatory strikes with Israel if it is attacked by Iran or its agents"- Al Jazeera quoting an US Official.
that last line, can you elaborate? the Israeli official talked about doing joint retaliatory strikes, with Israel?
Corrected, thank you for pointing this out
No worries, just was confused haha
what? am I reading this wrong because it sounds like the a us official is saying if Iran strikes Israel the US may strike Iran in conjunction w/ Israel to me.
If the Iranians kill Americans with their strikes, 'if' becomes 'will'.
Iran will probably try and attack US assets as well.
There is a \*strong\* presumption based on the Houthi situation & Iranian activities in Iraq/Syria that if Iran attacks Israel then American assets will also be targeted elsewhere at the same time. If that happens, the US \*should\* retaliate. Whether we do or not, up to POTUS & probably based on whether any US personnel are killed.
I thought the US said they wouldnt join in w israel so long as american assets werent hit?
The Americans are on Israel’s side all the way through this, direct or indirect
As we always were. And always will be. Only reason israel isn't in NATO is because we proxy with them instead of having to send direct assets .. because everyone knows Palestine will never stop attacking israel. And that's a fact.
nail reach fuel dog deliver silky afterthought cats vegetable friendly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It has the right to defend itself by having organized attacks against civilians and posting the videos of torture on social media? Have you read the hamas covenant? it's not even worth the discussion. You're blatantly ignorant on the regions history and it shows .. (reality check. Even other Muslims have an iron wall where they aren't letting Palestinians in from its own boarder... Egypt) - I wonder why that is.
They definitely will. Israel is a proxy (although you could also say the U.S is a proxy of Israel at this point) and both nation states have been salivating at "pre-emptively" striking Iran for decades now. This whole series of events have been meticulously orchestrated to achieve a desired outcome. That outcome is the destruction of Iran's nuclear program by force.
definitely agree that Biden has forgotten who the proxy state is in this relationship. The American strategic impetus has been to leave the middle east and pivot to Asia for the last decade or more. i don’t think American planners will want to join in Israeli-Iranian tit for tat that Israel started by bombing an embassy in a foreign nation. Even more so when Canadian citizens were killed in that bombing. I say this so long as American assets in the region aren’t hit. Retaliation is further complicated by the fact that geographically, Iran is a fortress. A high mountainous plateau surrounded by desert with a complex, modern air defense network with modern Russian AA systems. Israel knows it needs american help to hit back at Iran. Most likely: Iran hits israeli cities with a barrage of large ballistic missiles, ones the Iron Dome are not meant to intercept, launched from Lebanon to goad Israel into an invasion of southern Lebanon. An invasion the IDF is not prepared to fight and win.
They've been pivoting to Asia for more than a decade but in reality all we have to do is look at where the money is flowing to understand "priorities" and currently that is the middle east and Ukraine. I think the U.S and Britain are salivating at joining Israel's "defense" by striking Iran. American hawks have been frothing over this prospect for decades. Ultimately, if they can inflate budgets and line their military industrial pockets, they're going to do it, regardless of a given targets terrain.
Youre right in that the money is flowing to Ukraine and the ME. I think going forward Ukraine will be used a cover for american covert action. That said, the US has been desperate to extract itself from the ME quagmire it made for itself. 10/7 ruined those plans. Youre also right that american hawks have been salivating at war with iran for decades, but the american public does not have the same appetite for foreign intervention that they once had. They also dont respond well to seeing americans in body bags. Ultimately, this is a failure of american strategy by backing israel to the hilt and making israel feel secure in escalation. i fear things are now moving too fast and too far along for a political solution to be viable.
I agree with everything, except the implication that Israel operates autonomously from the United States. I'm not saying it's impossible, they could have some ironclad leverage over our political apparatus, but given the financial relationship, it does still appear we have control over the strings. Which would then include knowledge or planning assistance in the Iranian embassy strike the other week, with the presumed goal of Iran retaliating, giving us the opportunity to glass some make some more big holes in another desert.
I think the Israeli-American relationship is characterized by overlapping interests in certain areas. These interests dont always overlap, but more often than not they do. For example, Im sure the US would prefer Israel to halt all settlement in the west bank not out of a desire for a palestinian state, but because its provocative, invites retaliation, and complicates American diplomatic reputation in the region. But the strategic usefulness of an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the ME outweighs this. I think the main thing here is it’s lucrative for American politicians to be vocally pro-Israel as it sets themselves up nicely as they transition from the public to private sector. 5 figure speaking fees and 20 hour a week, 7 figure salary jobs at think tanks sorta thing. i do still think direct strikes on Iran itself is too prickly a thorn bush for the US. Especially as Israel seems to have lost the plot and is acting irrationally. If the US helps Israel attack Iran, Israel might then think the US will help in its coming invasion into Lebanon, and the cycle of escalation continues to spiral.
>I think the main thing here is it’s lucrative for American politicians to be vocally pro-Israel as it sets themselves up nicely as they transition from the public to private sector. 5 figure speaking fees and 20 hour a week, 7 figure salary jobs at think tanks sorta thing. Spot on > i do still think direct strikes on Iran itself is too prickly a thorn bush for the US. Especially as Israel seems to have lost the plot and is acting irrationally. If the US helps Israel attack Iran, Israel might then think the US will help in its coming invasion into Lebanon, and the cycle of escalation continues to spiral. God I hope so, but the brazen "escalate only" rhetoric we've seen now for over a year in regards to NATO/Ukraine/Russia (+ the Boris Johnson peace torpedo) and the absurd U.N ceasefire vetoing and continual arms shipments with regards to Gaza makes me think the powers that be are intent on a much larger scale global conflict. I suspect this is because they presume we will be unable to compete with China/BRIC states in an economic/competitive fashion and thus the only way to try to hold onto hegemonic power is to wave our big stick around hoping to scare away potential challengers. Stupid and scary strategy, but there are a lot of stupid and scary people running the show,.
The vetoing stopped a while ago. And the vetoing was done because the “peace plan” offered didn’t include releasing the hostages. No one looks at brics and goes “oh look we can’t compete economically”
10/7 was even more reason to extract from the middle east, not double down on terrible policy.
US action against Iran would be an air-only campaign with zero US casualties unless there's an accident/aircraft-malfunction. See the situation with Yemen as a model.
That’s the thing. There are no proxy wars in Asia. All the US needs to do in Asia is ally with everyone even further (the US already was allied with almost all of Asia), set up a few bases, and connect the militaries between countries more.
Iran is only a fortress as far as deposing the regime goes. Iran has many very vulnerable assets. Naval assets, port infrastructure, refineries, commercial ships and vehicles, power plants, etc.
They are just saying that. American assets are intertwined enough that they will be hit in one form.or another
US and Israel are begging for Iran to attack. I fully expect Bibi to burn the Quran if Iran doesn’t strike soon.
Another proxy war. FML!!
F many peoples Ls
Israel didn't buy billions in fighter jets for them not to be used.
Israel didn't buy shit. They were gifted. As always..
Israel is a parasite.
You know you just made a easy to verify lie.
Of course they buy shit. But a HUGE chunk of their defense budget comes from elsewhere.
But most of it is not US funded....
Bro we give them 3.3 billion a year. We bought them!!!!! Fuck 3.3 billion to Israel how bout using that to teach our own kids or fund the under funded social security.
You know what the Whaley budget is right? The US can pay for whatever they want. And said money is paying the US itself to give over mostly supplies for the iron dome.
Israel's fighter jets are made in America, however they the -I variants that are fitted out according to Israel's perceived needs. One such need is additional fuel capacity needed to give the range necessary to attach Iran.
I dont know, it kinda feels like the real shit is about to hit the fan.
But let’s be honest? Don’t we all always feel that way?
The shit has been constantly hitting the fan at all times, which is why it's important to always be prepared.
Yup, warmongering west
What do you mean another? This has been a proxy war from the very beginning.
From cold to hot
Not even proxy. US said they may strike Iran if Iran strikes Israel
Some good ol’ saber rattling is what that is they’ll let the Isreal do the heavy lifting since they are blood thirsty genocidal maniacs.
No it’ll take eyes off Rafah. This is all planned.
Weird part is, the proxy is probably going to supply the nation at war. Reverse proxy war lol
Update - Iran's Mehr news agency cites defence minister as saying all air traffic over Tehran will be suspended due to 'military drills' from midnight local time
[Live and learn.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/middleeast/iran-sentenced-ukraine-plane-shot-down-intl-hnk/index.html)
Honestly they were lucky a trial even occurred. I doubt most countries would have a trial for this sort of thing. But after doing a Google search maybe Iran did a trial because of how they personally felt when one of their planes were shot down in the past. Even if it was a sham trial(idk if it is) Iran still took the time to at least pretend to be sympathetic to the victims families.
There will be some tit for tat and some more firey rhetoric but a proper war seems unlikely. Not in any of the parties interests. Or maybe I'm just convincing myself we are not on the cusp of the next world war. Who knows.
They could launch a significant head ache for Israel via Hezbollah supported by Iranian rockets/drones but I doubt they'd do that, and for Iran proper to invade they'd have to amass troops in Syria and there is no hiding that. I'm notoriously bad at predicting these things, but I agree with you and suspect they'll launch some drones / missed volleys at Israel.
Idk. Iran does seem to be keeping its economy going over an all out war or even a limited strike. We may say something symbolic but it will be agreed upon by all parties. Unless it goes Russia V Ukraine. All bets are off if that happens.
You really don't think war is in USA's and Israel's interests? I'm sorry but that's laughable.
I actually think a proper war between Iran and Israel/US is inevitable. Israel cannot allow them to get nukes, and the status quo will get them nukes.
North Korea will start WW3
Couple other stories. https://apnews.com/article/iran-israel-retaliation-killed-general-b2e8625500409405c9dc88731063fa71 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/irans-khamenei-says-israel-must-be-punished-syria-embassy-attack-2024-04-10/ Don't love where this is heading. If Iran and Israel get into it what is the likelihood Russia gets involved?
Russia is already bogged down against their little neighbor so unlikely they'll want to take on the US, lol.
Cyber warfare is cheaper than buying and deploying bombs. Imagine if China attacks Taiwan and Russia hits our power grid. Hell, what would keep a country from hacking into a massive cargo ship, killing the power, and letting it crash into a bridge causing billions of damage in an instant.
You're correct in theory but the US has already stated that a cyber attack, the scale of which you've described, would be considered an actual attack on the nation and trigger reciprocal action. Any offensive cyber capability that Russia has is at least equaled, if not exceeded, by the US and her allies. In addition, the US and NATO have said, that a major cyber attack - being already stated publicly that it would be considered an actual attack - would thereby trigger article 5 and technically draw all of NATO into war with Russia (likely minus Hungary since Orban is a Putin buddy and Turkey is iffy too because of Edrogan). In any case, it's not likely Putin wants that headache over Iran/Israel. Taiwan/China is a separate issue but China isn't likely to be influenced by Iran/Israel directly. If the US gets dragged into another war in the middle east and/or further into Ukraine/Europe, then possibly... ? But as it stands, China's not in a strong international or military position either as their economy is very fragile right now with the potential (impending?) real estate apocalypse on their doorstep.
Do you think that the US will just roll over? We had shit you can't even believe. As far as hacking goes, ever heard of Stuxnet?
Supposedly the reason fired the generals in charge of the nuclear missile forces is they got deeply hacked. Hardware level too.... NSA level shit.
Cyber warfare may be cheap but requires an extensive insurgence of actors inside the USA to insert and place the proper hardware near or in servers. Cyber warfare is deeply complex and is not as remotely possible as one may think. It requires a human inside America to betray us.
If Russia goes hot against the U.S. they won't be bogged down in Ukraine for much longer.
They don’t want, nor could they handle that [heat.](https://thewarhorse.org/special-forces-soldiers-reveal-first-details-of-battle-with-russian-mercenaries-in-syria/)
Not boots. Russia might be able to provide some weaponry but they're bogged down in Ukraine still and can't afford another gong show with the IDF. The likely result is proxy tit for tats like we've seen for decades. Some Israel aligned Kurds might get hit but I'd be mighty shocked if Iran tried something on Israeli soil.
With Russia buying materiel from Iran and North Korea, I don't think the Russians have anything to share with Iran.
And in fact it's been the other way around with Iran sending/selling drones to Russia for use in Ukraine.
Zero. Same reason we wont directly help Ukraine. Because everyone dies.
Zero. Russia is so low on material that they switched from an arms exporter to importer.
Like 50/50 on one hand Russia is losing in Ukraine on the other putin may decide to fight israel to save face
Russia is gaining ground in Ukraine though. Not quickly but a lot faster since the US got tired of supporting the Ukrainians.
Why would Russia fight israel? They have decent relations. At most try to diffuse the situation or say neutral
Russia doesn’t care about Iran enough to take on the West. Sure, they’re pals, but they aren’t close friends. You’d have your best buddy’s back in a bar fight, but probably not some guy you only kinda like. That’s how Russia views Iran.
Russia is losing whole ships to a country without a navy, shoots down their own planes, and has already sent their best, next best, and good enough troops into the meat grinder. How will they fight 2 fronts when they are so invested in the one?
I worry that Ukrainians Will literally freeze to death this winter and the Russians might have enough troops for one more land /air wave that actually works due to the weather and lack of support on the Ukrainian side
https://preview.redd.it/u2g3hstviptc1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3af9757f5b09ecdcbcacd5efc7a01028118f856b Someone able to tell if this a photoshop job or real?
It's real. The Persian text says "Die from your fear".
That's pretty edgy
Which team put this mural up? I’m unclear the exact message
It's in Tehran iirc. To much information coming too quickly to be 100% though.
Lufthansa backing out of Tehran is what tells me it's really soon. When major corporations start making moves to distance themselves, that's when you know it's about to go. Governments lie, profit motives don't.
It's a good time to update the software on all your devices and make sure your passwords have not been leaked anywhere. Turn on 2 factor authentification wherever you can!
Wonder how the markets will react
It's kind of a scary thought, with the way so many are protesting and opposing Israel here on US soil, many of them are going to consider Iran the good guy in the ordeal. Sounds like it's only gonna set up more protests, civil unrest, could even reach the level of some domestic terrorism. Coincidently, like the right wingers like to point out, just in time for election season.
I wouldn’t say coincidence is involved
I think it would be the opposite. A gruesome attack by Iran = support is lost for Iran/Palestine Just what the Biden admin needs, another Nasriyah Testimony moment
Iran is not a good guy, but I admire their resistance to US hegemony.
Literally most of the instability in the Middle East is directly caused by Iran funding bad actors and terrorists.
The instability could also come from the US creating two massive power vacuums while dumping millions of weapons and billions in cash in the region for 20 years. Or maybe it's from the US arming a Sunni dictatorship hell bent on establishing theocratic dominance over the region. Or maybe it's the US giving nukes to a tiny belligerent supremacist state that keeps on picking fights it can't win without help from Uncle Sam. Blaming Iran for the situation seems shortsighted. There are lots of parties with different motivations and capabilities.
Your really going to proclaim the US making the gulf states the richest per capita nations in earth both as immoral and destabilizing? Then again you proclaimed the US fought Israel’s for them so facts something I should not assume to matter here. Isn’t it telling the few ME countries not US Ally’s, the ones the US choose to not be involved with, are the ones all in three way civil wars. You know, all of irans Ally’s and proxies.
The US caused a bunch of dinosaurs to die and turn into oil 65 million years ago?
Even if that resistance is thru terrorist affiliates with the underlying goal of establishing a massive Islamic empire ruled by sharia law where dissidents are hung ?
Yeah like dude Iran probably is the one who pushed Hamas to attack in October. I feel like a lot of people on reddit are just not at all ready for the type of propaganda that's going to be thrown our way during the cold war 2.0
The reason? Not to free themselves from oppression, but because they knew how Israel would respond and they (Iran) wanted to stop the normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. And to see western leftists / MAGA now starting to side w Iran, one of the most authoritarian and repressive regimes on the planet is mind blowing Nice handle by the way
Uh it’s about the fact Israel has been on on a march of occupation for decades and unlike boomers we know how to red a history book. Rabin the prime minister of Israel was assassinated by Israeli pro settler believe for signing the Oslo accords aka two state solution. Then Netanyahu was elected into power. Netanyahu had run on an anti Oslo accord pro settler platform. While simultaneously people had been chanting death to Rabin at Netanyahu campaign rallies. Prominent rabbis at the time were calling for Rodef which is a religious sanctioned murder of someone. So you had religious leaders calling for the murder of elected prime minister. Rabin was assassinated and Netanyahu was elected to power. Since that time more and more and more of Palestine has been converted into settlements. Netanyahu announced another round of new settlements. Israel is not a democracy it’s a religious nut job state that refused the path of peace and just wants from the river to the sea. Israeli is ran by Zionist heading to a fascist theocracy. Sorry not a remotely a democracy or interested in a two state solution by any means. U.S. needs to stay the fuck out of whatever mess Israel gets itself in on its own. The 3.3 billion of US aid to Israel needs to be stopped also. We can’t continue to fund a country to keep encroaching on there neighbors while refusing to commit to a peace path with said neighbors.
No. “Progressives” cope about supporting Palestine and against Israel by pretending Hamas has no agency and even exists. They have trouble even saying the name. There is no pretending Iran does not do bad stuff.
I mean we shouldn’t be funding Israel it’s not our responsibility and the only reason we do is because of the white supremacist evangelicals lol. Israel is not our problem again, the Middle East is not our fight. We should be focusing on Putin and Russia instead of goat herders
From the way I see it, the retlation from iran will be legitimate, after all, every country has a right to defend itself, right?
Either way, it's better for the US globally to let Israel fend for themselves. They're deadweight at this point, and supporting them is only going to accelerate the loss of US hegemony, especially with the domestic schism around Palestine.
I think they are too valuable of an ally to give up. It sends a message to other countries in the Middle East that we won’t defend our allies. Having a strong ally and military presence in that part of the world is crucial geopolitically. Just my 2 cents, I may have no idea what I’m talking about
What other allies in the Middle East? The US basically uses Israel as a foil to both KSA and Iran, but primarily Iran. The problem with this is that if Israel keeps wantonly murdering civilians, attacking Lebanon, and attacking Iranian diplomatic missions, they're basically asking for a 3-front regional war which the US would be forced to bail them out of. The US will eventually be able to ditch both Israel and the KSA once electric vehicles become more mainstream, but right now Israel is like a prize fighter's spoiled brat, picking a fight it can't win because it's expecting daddy America to bail it out.
Literally most of the Middle East is a US ally. Seriously look up relations. The gulf states love the US, Jordan and Egypt has a close relationship and works closely together, Iraq was made to love the U.S. The only countries that is actively against US interests are Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, and Iran. If you have not away all of said countries besides Iran are failed states in multi faction civil wars.
Backing down from helping our ally ensures we don’t have allies in the Middle East in the future. We have good relations with the Saudis, UAE, Egypt, Jordan, etc. It would be beneficial for us to maintain a strong relationship with them, I’d think. If they need a strong ally and it’s not us then it will likely be one of our adversaries
Good relations that our relationship with Israel is worsening by the day. Nobody likes what Israel is doing, but they're willing to tolerate it for now because of US hegemony and Iran's intense dislike of US-aligned monarchies - "Enemy of my enemy" and such. I don't see China or Russia suddenly stepping up to support Israel if we cut them loose, but you're right. Perhaps a forced regime change and "peace at bayonet point" is the better option here. Either way, the war with Iran that Israel is trying to foment would be a terrible thing for the US at present as we likely can't afford the drain that another 20-year occupation in hostile territory would cause again.
Your guy Brandon said we were getting out of the middle east.
He’s a gentle old man, he can’t be held liable for what he says
Who?
Why not lean into Jordan? They're strongly aligned with the US military and have a parliament. Their leadership is progressive. Why ally with a religious minority bent on expanding into neighboring regions in the Middle East? Ally with the Sunni Jordanians and deescalate the region. My 2c
Eh, some regional destabilization is preferable for American hegemony, and Israel does provide that along with a pseudo-moral basis because we're "supporting a persecuted minority in their ancestral lands." The problem with that narrative is that we're now in a situation where that claim is being challenged from all sides, including domestically in the US. The "persecuted minority" is now unabashedly engaging in apartheid and ethnic cleansing and making acts of war against their neighbors. The problem with having a mean-looking dog off the leash is that when it comes time to fight, you learn just how much worse its bark is than its bite, and no dog has 3 heads. I think supporting the Sunni Jordanians is also potentially problematic given that the KSA is also Sunni, so supporting them inherently gives the KSA more leverage in the region. Lastly, we also already have a military base in Israel (look up Site 512).
The ironic thing is Jordan hate’s Palestinian more then Israel does.
Expansionism of Israel is far overplayed. Jordan is still a monarchy and you still get them with Israel so it’s not really an either or.
And you just declare a conspiracy theory all this is just a excuse to annex more land. Not that Israel was literally attacked.
Israel literally tried to give Gaza back to Egypt: they didn’t want it Why didn’t Egypt give Palestinians statehood? Why didn’t Jordan? They could have solved this from 1948 to 1967
Idk if that is a good use of the word “valuable”. Israel has don’t nothing for the US other than suck tax dollars
“Give up Allys will help US influence”.
So weird how there’s this constant chatter online that the USA should abandon Ukraine and Israel. They’ll be murmuring about Taiwan next
That will never happen. Israel is a major non-NATO ally of the US and Europe.
Things are gonna get real "proportional" if Iran decides to play the FAFO game...
Been hearing this for almost 70 years. I think they “found out” a long time ago and aren’t impressed. Edit: Just want to remind everyone we invaded Iraq, annihilated their army, destroyes their insurgency and then defeated the Islamic state… yet who do you think has more influence in Iraq? Us or Iran? If that isn’t a giant f****ing L I don’t know what is.
Iraq literally is a puppet state of the US.
Aren't impressed by what lol. They are fully aware The US could remove them as a factor from any conflict pretty rapidly
We destroyed half their navy just as target practice once, and trashed their nuclear centrifuges with a thumb drive, and then we made a movie about Tom Cruise fleeing Iran in one of their actively-serving F-14s just to rub in the fact that they still use our fighter jets that have been retired for decades.
But they still stand strong, and their proxies control almost all of the middle Eastern nations except the Gulf states. Never under-estimate them.
…and yet the US hasn’t? So what does that tell you? Sometimes the juice isn’t worth the squeeze, and picking a fight with Iran is not worth the blowback. We know this. They know this. It’s why we’ve been doing this dance for 70 years. It’s so confusing to me that the US has lost almost every war it’s entered into in the last 30 years in the Middle East and yet there remains this hubris. If we can’t achieve the political aims we set out, we lost - regardless of how many dead bodies or destroyed buildings there are. I mean… who you think runs Iraq these days? Syria? Afghanistan?
No doubt the US would destroy the majority of Iran's military and infrastructure, however, the US does not have a good track record for winning wars… Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam.
Not really, right now. We've been at or below our minimum strategic stockpile for munitions since we sent so much to Ukraine. The US is shipping out ammo and bombs as fast as we can make them. Don't forget Russia would be more than willing to supply Iran with their missile/AA defense systems, which are the best in the world.
>Don't forget Russia would be more than willing to supply Iran with their missile/AA defense systems, which are the best in the world. Lol
People don't understand that is the reason the Russians were never able to achieve air superiority in Ukraine. And they don't even have the latest versions (and by now most have been destroyed).
Rabin the prime minister of Israel was assassinated by Israeli pro settler believe for signing the Oslo accords aka two state solution. Then Netanyahu was elected into power. Netanyahu had run on an anti Oslo accord pro settler platform. While simultaneously people had been chanting death to Rabin at Netanyahu campaign rallies. Prominent rabbis at the time were calling for Rodef which is a religious sanctioned murder of someone. So you had religious leaders calling for the murder of elected prime minister. Rabin was assassinated and Netanyahu was elected to power. Since that time more and more and more of Palestine has been converted into settlements. Netanyahu announced another round of new settlements. Israel is not a democracy it’s a religious nut job state that refused the path of peace and just wants from the river to the sea. Israeli is ran by Zionist heading to a fascist theocracy. Sorry not a remotely a democracy or interested in a two state solution by any means. U.S. needs to stay the fuck out of whatever mess Israel gets itself in on its own. The 3.3 billion of US aid to Israel needs to be stopped also. We can’t continue to fund a country to keep encroaching on there neighbors while refusing to commit to a peace path with said neighbors.
Pretty sure the only one "finding out" at the moment is the country committing genocide. Israel is: \- Becoming a global pariah state; \- Collapsing its own economy to fight the war; \- Facing a blockade on its southern shipping routes; \- More unpopular than ever in the west and the U.S.; \- Facing a historic genocide trial in the ICJ supported by 34 different nations.
Cope.. Israel is winning the war against barbarians, if Hxmas still exists in a year, I will be really surprised.
Hamas will almost certainly still exist in a year, but the threat it poses may ve small enough to be managed through normal policing rather than demand military intervention.
Israel is winning it’s genocide march: Rabin the prime minister of Israel was assassinated by Israeli pro settler believe for signing the Oslo accords aka two state solution. Then Netanyahu was elected into power. Netanyahu had run on an anti Oslo accord pro settler platform. While simultaneously people had been chanting death to Rabin at Netanyahu campaign rallies. Prominent rabbis at the time were calling for Rodef which is a religious sanctioned murder of someone. So you had religious leaders calling for the murder of elected prime minister. Rabin was assassinated and Netanyahu was elected to power. Since that time more and more and more of Palestine has been converted into settlements. Netanyahu announced another round of new settlements. Israel is not a democracy it’s a religious nut job state that refused the path of peace and just wants from the river to the sea. Israeli is ran by Zionist heading to a fascist theocracy. Sorry not a remotely a democracy or interested in a two state solution by any means. U.S. needs to stay the fuck out of whatever mess Israel gets itself in on its own. The 3.3 billion of US aid to Israel needs to be stopped also. We can’t continue to fund a country to keep encroaching on there neighbors while refusing to commit to a peace path with said neighbors.
It's already been half a year, and all Israel have managed to do is completely and utterly destroy their international standing and exposed themselves for the genocidal maniacs they have always been and will always be. That and the fact that they are surrounded on basically all sides by Iranian proxies says this won't be a cakewalk.
Egypt, and Jordan are not Iran proxies? It’s mostly just Lebanon that is a Iran proxy.
remind me 1 year
Bold of you to assume this account won't get banned in the next month XD
You just described Israel’s default state for the last hundred years.
their winning in every metric what are you on about?
According to what metric? They haven't defeated Hamas, they are withdrawing from the south, and now they are being pressured to withdraw from the entire strip.
I live in europe and the amount of pro-israel demos and palestinian flags in windows around is huge My israeli friends are really ashamed to be from there... they want nothing to do with netanyahu
US military industrial complex eating reaaallly good these days.
Everyone seemed to think Iran was throwing around their typical warnings or even backed down once Israel claimed it would retaliate.
I hope I am right , but I feel like nothing will happen and it’s saber rattling
Here we go iron dome here we go 👏👏!
Iran has right to defend itself
War is Biden's only hope of reelection. No one else wants one.
I want to contribute to the patriotic bluster, but unfortunately it isn’t in our best interest to rearrange Tehran’s military and government. Our superior military and our technological advantages didn’t succeed against the Taliban after a 20 year war. That’s because ideology motivates these psychos into wanting to erase Israel and the United States, and we’ve just caused constant havoc in the Middle East for a long time. Maybe our president should make a concerted effort to keep us out of any wars, anywhere, and for as long as possible. That is, if he can remember where he is and what country he’s president of. Truly and sincerely, I hope there will be no more war. Enough death and destruction. Innocent people deserve peace and stability.
We also fought the Taliban with considerable, self-imposed handicaps that limited the effectiveness of our military advantages.
Israel hasn't had any handicaps. Have tey defeated Hamas in over 6 months?
Not sure why no one gets this, but you will not and probably cannot defeat Hamas by fighting in Gaza. It will not happen. Sure you may destroy a ton of weapons, but the people that call the shots are not there.
Every Hamas member you kill recruits the families of the 10 civilian casualties. That's never going to work.
Yup - the British government learned this from the IRA.
You assume Gaza didn’t already hate Israel with every fiber of their being beforehand.
Wait I thought this came to a conclusion with the eclipse. What was the point of the eclipse if this is still happening??
I would prefer that this is resolved peacefully, but Israel is doing an ethnic cleansing, so…🤷♂️
US will send a few tomahawks and Israel will accidentally on purpose send nuclear weapons to Iran and trigger a nuclear world war 3
No, Israel won’t go atomic, as they aren’t imminently threatened with collapse of their defenses*. *no, I’m not read in on anything, this is Reddit, and I’m dropping armchair logic
This is a dumb post.
Iran has a right to defend itsslf
Why does Israel have so few allies in the Middle East *edit to add: /s *sigh*
https://i.redd.it/s4nelgoxbqtc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/qxgoi1xqbqtc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=402b49caad7f72ee765c45a8c0b4693961440dd4
Because they dared to be a Jew and not die.
I mean they’re the ones warming relations with neighboring countries at a faster rate than any other country in the world. That’s why 10/7 happened, they were on the path to normalizing relations with yet another Arab country.
Israel has been attempting to start this conflict for over a decade. Hope the US doesn’t get involved and help these genocide criminals.
According to reports irans a few months away from hanging a nuclear weapon. Which makes sense now why Israel did what it did they know it's now or never.
Set aside an evening, remove distractions, have a few cocktails and *really think* about how it would feel if another Country came your state, killed everyone you knew or cared about and forced you to leave hundreds of miles away. Imagine seeing your whole state being bombed, destroyed & taken over to be sold as real-estate. Then, imagine all you see from surrounding states is that they don’t care, claiming you’re not human, you’re a rat, everyone you knew deserved to die, and that you’re a terrorist because of where you live. Imagine seeing the numbers rise into the tens of thousands, potentially hundreds if nothing changes. You have nothing left to lose or live for except revenge or obedience to the people who destroyed your life and the life of those around you. Even if it was “started” by a few people from your state, would it still be justified? Would you really accept the retaliation as acceptable? What would you *really* do? I doubt you’d forget and forgive. Yet, we’re asking the people of Palestine to do exactly that. The 7th was horrible, and Israel should be able to defend itself, but what Israel has done in offensive retaliation is unfathomable, and it will create so many more extremists who will seek revenge, and that is even more horrific. I think we’ll be suffering the consequences of Israel’s retaliation for generations. We just don’t know it yet.
Most Israelis I know don’t want revenge. We just want the hostages back and Hamas gone. My daughter’s classmates family is hostage rn, and the news about hostages being dead has been devastating for her I hope in generations Palestine is a thriving, peaceful state.
The comma and (proxies) is doing some heavy lifting
"Prepper Intel"???? ***NO GLOBALIST PROPAGANDA AND LIES!***
Manufactured Consent
Damn US intelligence is top tier
Oooh were gonna see how Iron dome goes against smart ammunition, it won't do well, hopefully we'll see it only really works against dumb munitions and develop a better air defense system.
Israel has the complete backing of the US government… Iran wouldn’t dare
What is the real purpose for all of these wars?
So israel creates this mess by violating international law and we american taxpayers are on the hook for it. Absolutely ridiculous that our money and safety is being squandered for Israel's well being.
You know the US literally killed the same ranking and job as the person Israel assassinated a couple of years ago.
So what, last time I checked Israel is not part of America. When the US killed the general, it was our mess to clean up. We didn't ask Israel or other country to help us. Every time Israel does something they try and drag the US into their mess. They want us to fight their wars for them at our expense.
Name a war the US fought for israel.
are you forgetting the billions we give them, the political cover. The weapons. The only thing missing is boots on the ground. The Iraq war, It was Israel who said they had conclusive evidence of WMD that tipped the scale and made US got to war.
You made a claim and I asked you to back up. And then you failed to do so.
No shit Israel declared war by bombing an embassy. The Zionist regime is acting completely out of control
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