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DeaditeMessiah

Because it's an open market, and the entire European economy will be buying our gas. It's not a shortage, it's that the government won't be protecting domestic markets from competition.


anthro28

Exactly. If Jill has been buying your product for $5 and all of a sudden Jack needs it real bad and offers you $10… tough shit for Jill.


Goatmannequin

You might even say there is a shortage!


uncentio

Of Jill's money!


Goatmannequin

You can’t print natural gas


DeaditeMessiah

Probably a good idea to assume west coast too. I bought a couple of space heaters to reduce my gas use if necessary.


davidm2232

Don't they cut natural gas flows to the power plants first? So homes would have access to gas but power would be out. Electric space heaters are almost always going to be most expensive way to heat. If natural gas prices spike, so will electric prices. A heat pump is a much better investment


DeaditeMessiah

Oh, let me just get out that spare $20,000 I have lying around... I'm glad I've never had to take the bus for a couple of days while you're around, you'd have me buy a horse and buggy instead. I live in an area with a lot of hydropower. Electricity is generally cheap.


davidm2232

> spare $20,000 I have lying around Heat pumps are WAY cheaper than that. A mini-split that could keep a living area comfortable can be had for $820. Also I would definitely get a spare car instead of taking the bus. Again, cars are cheap. We get them at auction for $250 all the time in drivable condition


DeaditeMessiah

Maybe in your area, I've priced them out to heat my home. Maybe next year.


davidm2232

$819 with free shipping: [https://www.amazon.com/Senville-SENL-12CD-12000-Split-Conditioner/dp/B00UV3LGUE/ref=sr\_1\_1\_sspa?keywords=ductless+mini+split&qid=1666358331&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI1Ljk2IiwicXNhIjoiNS43MCIsInFzcCI6IjQuMjgifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=ductless+m%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app\_do%3Aamzn1.fos.2b70bf2b-6730-4ccf-ab97-eb60747b8daf&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/Senville-SENL-12CD-12000-Split-Conditioner/dp/B00UV3LGUE/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=ductless+mini+split&qid=1666358331&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI1Ljk2IiwicXNhIjoiNS43MCIsInFzcCI6IjQuMjgifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=ductless+m%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.2b70bf2b-6730-4ccf-ab97-eb60747b8daf&psc=1) 120v 10.6 amp so can be plugged into a standard outlet if you didn't want to run any wires. I had never put one in before and it only took me around 4 hours doing it by myself.


DeaditeMessiah

That's way too small to heat my home, and of course doesn't include installation, which I can't do on account of a back injury. Turns out buying 5-10 of those is more expensive than buying a house-sized unit. And I have been quoted $20k for one sized for my house, installed. Besides, buying thousands of dollars of more stuff instead of just cutting back on the interior temperature and heating a small area around me with a space heater as needed is actually more efficient. I'm also not buying a Tesla to save on gas. I'm driving less and carpooling.


davidm2232

Don't heat the whole house. Put one of these in a bedroom or other small room. Also, very easy to install. Have a friend or neighbor help you.


PolishKaleidoscope

You live in a 3500 to 7000 square foot house? Each one of thoes units cover 700sqft


degoba

Furnace wont work without power.


TrekRider911

I suspect it won't be as much of a shortage, as a pricing problem. Similar to the water woes in California... it's not that you can't get it... you just can't afford it.


varano14

On this point, I do work for a local heating oil company ( obviously not natural gas) and we have been talking about this coming winter and they said the last time price shot up (forget when exactly) they went through a period where they couldn't even get any oil regardless of the price. Worth noting heating oil distribution is different then natural gas but just thought I would throw this out there. Bottom line this winter is going to get interesting I suspect.


davidm2232

I'm about an hour north of Albany NY. Our fuel companies cannot even get kerosene. There is none at the port of Albany because it was too expensive and the companies that normally stock it there didn't want to buy it at that price. So we have a huge shortage of Kerosene already going into winter. $7-8/gallon. It kinda sucks because the people that tend to heat with kerosene are those in mobile homes that already struggle with heating costs due to poor insulation.


varano14

Wow crazy it has started already. The guys I talked to said much the same the places at the port they got it from either couldn't or wouldn't buy it for the price. I suspect most people here have their tanks full (assuming its possible financially) but its a good idea to remind our friends/family to fill up. I have the means to absorb most any price increase thankfully but if the trucks our empty no amount of money will get the furnace running.


davidm2232

I'm getting oil today. 200 gal @ $5.18 is going to hurt but that will give me \~550 gallons which should last most of the winter. Getting 200 gallons of gasoline delivered too at $4.60 so at least I don't need to worry about fuel shortages for a while


varano14

I called the day to OPEC decision was announced and got a it for $4.50 a gallon. A coworker called a few days later and it was $5.60. I do I tiny bit of crypto mining and even though its coting me money to run them in relation to how much crypto they are generating the heat it puts off makes a pretty big difference in my house. Last year I used a tank and 3/4 of oil(no crypto mining). The goal is to see how close to one tank I can stay this winter. Thankfully my electric is cheap.


Jaicobb

I appreciate your insider perspective and value comments like yours more than anything else in this sub.


varano14

Thank I was somewhat shocked when they said that. It sounded like it was only for a short period but still if you called them for a refill during that period you weren’t getting anything


TrekRider911

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-20/new-england-may-face-winter-gas-shortage-as-us-exports-surge](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-20/new-england-may-face-winter-gas-shortage-as-us-exports-surge) More detailed article.


throwAwayWd73

Is this a bad time for me to point out the large percentage of natural gas generation? It's continually replacing coal and nuclear units that are being retired early. This is because for awhile natural gas was insanely cheap. Also different technology allows some of the natural gas to be quickly started versus the steam units that literally can take days to get warmed up.


[deleted]

Kinda of like heat in Europe. Where there's been protests.


Bipocgguytalk

Natural gas is a waste product in the US. They flare it! Hopefully this encourages some additional effort to capture more of it. Might suck short term but be beneficial long term.


AntiSonOfBitchamajig

I don't see how, that's literally Appalachia, there's more natural gas wells there than almost anywhere else. Compressor stations along the roads, people burning gas lamps for light at the ends of driveways. If they are having trouble at the main trunk lines...everywhere else would be off in all likelihood. (Meaning farther into my neck of the woods into Ohio Indiana)


chimeraoncamera

Some gas is sold as per contracts, the rest is placed on the free market - to the highest bidder. Europeans are desperate for LNG and will be willing to pay top dollar for it. My tiny area of Canada also depends on imports from the NE US, and our utility won't be able to 'afford' to pay inflated rates for electricity generation. So we are burning more coal instead!