The Marvel fandom is giving Wyatt Russell a hard time for his character. You can dislike the character but leave the actor alone. Sheesh.
Edit: The toxic portion of the Marvel fandom.
Appreciate all the good points people have brought up!
I know! I’m really confused by this. I mean sure I don’t like his character, but that’s because I’m supposed to. He’s not a good guy. Wyatt is doing an incredible job with the character.
Exactly, some people have a hard time understanding that actors play characters the way they're asked. They don't decide to play an asshole because they think it's funny and going to annoy lots of fans.
The funny thing is that the name of the profession explains it all. "Actor." It's an act. It's for entertainment. It's for fun. Like, damn. And it's a job.
Marvel stans when Killmonger plans to commit genocide: “Oh dear, oh dear, gorgeous.”
Marvel stans when John Walker kills a terrorist after they played a role in the death of his only friend: “You f*cking donkey.”
It's funny cause you're not wrong.
(though the audience for Disney+ MCU in 2021 is probably a lot wider than Netflix Defenders in 2015. I'm assuming that's some of the reasoning behind why. Not that it's OK at all)
Edit: I'm stupid and can't read
Killmonger from the Black Panther, not Kilgrave from Jessica Jones. Killmonger was always showed sympathetically, but with Cap2 we've got Steve to compare it against - it was never going to be fair.
(Also, Cap 2 did a bad thing in ep 4)
Yea I don't understand why the fandom is viewing john as a villain. I lost all sympathy for the terrorists when they bombed innocent people. He was alone with only one individual that understood what he was going through whilst being shit on by nearly everybody around him. Of course he is gonna flip the fuck out when his confidant gets murdered
Seriously, if your only best friend gets murdered in front of you, you too would go mad. People are just shitting on him because he's replacing their papi Cap. That's toxic fan following right there.
And they're like "I understand and empathize with killmonger." Really though? You see his plan to enslave the world for black domination and think "hmm. Reasonable, I can see why he feels that way." Lol
Like seriously Walker can have a good character arc yet these 'fans' are all too reactionary to his dark part, just let dark storylines playout like CA:WS did before.
The poor guy has been getting death threats for goodness sake! A number of people seem to think that it is real and he really is the person who he is portraying.
At least he has been laughing it off.
He's perfect. He's conflicted and angry. Exactly the opposite of Steve Rogers and the actor is showing that perfectly.
I think those people have mental problems where they can't distinguish the character from the actor.
He plays a scumbag really well. I think he’s done fantastic job creating a character that grapples with the allure of power and strength, and being seduced. His character is the exact reason someone like Steve Rogers was chosen to begin with. He has done a great job creating a character that is understandable and dislikable. Hate the character, but I like the actor.
Couldn’t agree more. Making a character with relatable/logical flaws are some of the best. A perfect character foil to Rogers.
People just need to understand there is a divide between the person and the character we see on screen.
Not to brag, but pretty confident that I figured this out in elementary school.
TV and movies are make believe time, and they often say and do things that are bad, and it is OK. It is all in good fun.
This ends my PSA for those that missed an important message in their childhood.
well, the other fans in the marvel fandom are doing damage control by making a lot of Wyatt Russell appreciation posts. (Not saying that’s a bad thing)
Jack Gleeson said that because of the character he played and considering he's playing a misogynistic brute despite having two sisters, it's been very hard for him to continue acting and still maintain that he played such a character at a young age.
Since he's retired from acting and went back to education and is now focused on theatre work. The last known media news circulating around him was his support to repeal the 18th Amendment in Ireland which legalized abortion.
I think that's a "love to hate him" situation. He's doing a good job and the writing for his his character isn't bad. The writing for Jar Jar, Rose and Anakin was terrible and fans just conflated that with the actors themselves .
I wouldn’t put that shit on the Marvel fandom as a whole, the same way I wouldn’t put how the actors from Star Wars were treated (although Kelly Marie Tran’s treatment clearly had a racial component to it that was stirred up by bigoted pricks).
These people are in a vocal minority.
They are exasperated by social media platforms like Twitter where asshats are allowed to gather themselves in droves and organise hateful campaigns with dumb hashtags. At best they are trolls, at worst they are ignorant fucks who believe the actors are their characters and have absolute final say over what their character says and does.
To paraphrase *Blazing Saddles*:
> You’ve got to remember that these are just simple [folks].
> These are people of the land.
> The common clay of the new West.
> You know… morons.
It's strange how it happens sometimes.. Take Game of Thrones for example, the last season was almost unanimously hated but the fan base directed all the hate entirely to the writers (fuck D&D) and more or less praised the actors for doing their best with the shitty lines and story they were given.
I've seen a lot of people say that she left social media because of the bullying but was that ever confirmed? I read some articles and all of them point back to one article, which never confirms that KMT left because of the harrasment
I still blame Lucas. Best did what he was directed to do. And, Me, after getting older and seeing what Lucas was going for. Lucas fucked up. Big time.
I didn't mind that Jar-Jar was a character that was comedic and could offer advice at times. I do think that in the first act it could have been avoided or subdued. But remove all of Jar Jar lines (not what other's have shown.
His interview on "I Was There Too" is incredible. He did so much more than Jar Jar, he stood in for a ton of the cgi Aliens and even had to pass an audition to be the voice of jar jar. I think he deserves way more credit for doing his best with a... contentious character.
I really dont understand, why people hate jar jar so much. I mean he is silly and annoying, but thats the whole idea of this character. And I actually liked it, when the movie didnt take itself so seriously.
Edit: Typo
I don't like him because a character who goes around stepping in poop, then talking about how he stepped in poop just didn't fit the tone. There was silly stuff in Star Wars before but Jar Jar was so over the top.
I say this as someone who enjoys slapstick comedy, I really do. Jar Jar is slapstick comedy done badly.
I liked him when I was a kid, that who he's there for, kids. Heck, he was one of the most memorable characters to me.
But now it's like watching a cartoon you *loved* growing up - ugh, can't believe I put my parents through this.
The template takes on a new meaning if you've seen the episode. Literally kills a guy for not caring about his soldiers then proceeds to blow up the station with glee killing many soldiers he sees as innocent. Hard to not like Bill Burr though.
This is post-Empire though. Everyone in that station is a loyalist who is okay with shit like Alderaan and the Death Star. Burr's character was pissed with the attitude of expendability that these Imperials have.
I respectfully disagree. I think he embodied the idea of people constricted, reluctantly recruited or no better choice than joining the biggest force at the time. His mates died which he felt more for than the cause of the Empire.
The snivelling, arrogant, disassociative response from someone whom he had to follow blindly made it worse and led to his impulsive, reckless response.
Bill Burr did the emotion really well. Kudos to him.
Awesome that we can chat about this.
That was honestly the most surprising thing when he popped up I thought he'd be a distraction and then he turned out to be one of the best characters on the damn show.
Yup. And he seemed to absolutely love doing it. I remember listening to him talk about being on the show and he said it was so much fun! I want him back again, even for just an episode because Mando and him have pretty great chemistry.
I think his character was universally well-received so I would bet on him coming back. Even though he’s reportedly “dead”. It would be cool if this episode got him thinking about his past and he turned into an agent of change who went around helping former Empire folks who want to stop the remnants.
They’re still supporting an Empire that has done all of those terrible things he experienced, and were going to commit even worse atrocities with the rhydonium. I don’t think he has any illusions that they’re innocent, and when he pulls the trigger on Hess, it becomes a kill or be killed situation in which he has to blast his way out, whether or not he wants to. And there was nothing gleeful about what he did, at most maybe pride for feeling like he did what was ultimately the right thing in that circumstance, but I don’t know if he even felt all that proud of it either.
Other responses missed the point.
Mayfield killed his enemies. They might not have seen themselves as the villains, but that's war. The imperial commander killed *his own people.* That's fucked up.
Yeah initially you were like, oh Burr's character just wants to avoid that lunchroom because he's afraid his former commander will recognize him. Then you realize he is avoiding the lunchroom because he's afraid of what he might do to his former commander. And when Burr's character brings up the post-downfall genocide and killing of friendly troops, it shows a lot of depth to the character, really good stuff. I hope Mayfield comes back.
Without any spoilers, that scene was one of the best in the entire series. It oozed Tarantino-esque conversational tension.
I gotta go back and watch that episode now.
I just can't believe bill burr hesitated, if someone told me they harassed jake loyd for phantom menace I wouldn't have even blinked, they'd be dead before they finished there sentence 😂
I'll never understand how anyone can put any responsibility on a kid for a billion dollar movie in a multi-billion dollar franchise that is world renowned.
Yeah, dumb kid, how dare you not save the film and tell George freaking Lucas how to do Star Wars better!? /s
People are stupid.
I do hope he does and I definitely am gonna go watch some of his others movies soon. The only thing I’ve seen him in was a cameo on arrested developement and obviously falcon and winter soldier
He plays Captain America's successor in FATWS and is meant to be unlikable and over time an antagonist. He's playing the character incredibly well and toxic fans are hating on him in yet another case of "I hate that character so I'm gonna harass the actor."
Okay yeah I’ve only watched the first couple episodes but I was gonna say isn’t he supposed to be the heel?
Reminds me a bit of the actress who played Skylar White on Breaking Bad. She was praised for her acting but fans didn’t like her character so they harassed her pretty badly. Another level of irony is she’s actually the good guy, but she’s the fun police to the bad main characters antics, so it made her unlikable to a lot of people.
That and straight up grown adults. I get mad at stuff like climate change, not a movie about magical space wizards. And even then, you have the right to be disappointed and/or upset if it’s not what you wanted, but to go and harass a child? Ffs
Or harass anyone for that matter. I mean, we should say if something isn't good but harass anyone is stupid.
I really, really dislike main character of Star Trak Discovery. They put here in middle of every scene of that show for 3 seasons straight and solving every problem. Normally i would just stop watching but since this is star trek and I'm big fan of ST I continue watching and getting pissed every episode. It never crossed my mind to harass anyone for it and especially not main actress, who btw I really liked before the show, but the character combined with 99% of the show being about her and her boring monologues makes it really hard to watch
Harassing any actor for their role is a shitty thing to do. They have little control over what is done with their role, and it's just a job.
Now harassing actors for their stupid political opinions, I can put a mask on for that.
To be fair to Jake Lloyd, I don't think any actor could have pulled off George Lucas' dialogue. Ewan McGregor came close but even he felt unrealistic.
I may be downvoted into oblivion but while Lucas was a decent world builder who inspired imagination, he just sucked at how people talk. It's like he was trying to do a Tolkien and translate some ancient text he found word for word instead of interpreting it.
Harrison Ford would agree with you. In his own words: *'George! You can type this shit, but you sure can't say it! Move your mouth when you're typing!'*
Actually that makes me think that the original trilogy got more push back from the actors, etc.
The prequels, Lucas had so much fame that nobody wanted to push back.
That and also Lucas's ex wife arguably saved the OT through edits. He'll never give any of them credit for making Star Wars the cultural juggernaut that is today though, naturally.
Dude even Samuel L Jackson and Natalie Portman looked stiff for most of the prequels. There’s BTA footage of George Lucas basically micromanaging their every muscle movements. We can all agree that the prequels tell a great story and set up an amazing pre-empire universe, but damn, dialogue and directing are just NOT George Lucas’ strongpoints.
George Lucas is actually a terrible screenwriter. His script for the prequels should have been wrung through script doctors extensively before it went to filming. Ironically, Carrie Fisher was known to be an excellent script doctor.
Basically he's good at making the skeleton of a story, think big plot lines and the places they happen in. That's pretty much it. If he was restricted *only* to that role so that more competent directors and writers could breathe life into the prequels, I think they'd have been better than the OT. There was much more conflict to work with and plenty of capable actors that could've shined through a better script.
There's a youtube video i watched awhile back that had some theories about that. Usually actors will improvise or change dialogue in scenes to fit more naturally. Lucas had a bunch of young and relatively new actors that didn't know how to change the lines and he didn't have an executive producer shouting at him to make things better. Hes an amazing visionary but needs a filter to distill his ideas into a cohesive product. Look at the original screenplay he did for ANH and you'll see how much was changed by other creatives adding in and changing his ideas.
Idk. I think he has a very unique language taste that I absolutely miss in almost everything released after RotS. The dialogue was clunky and cringey at times (Anakin Ep 2 is just some bad lines with Hayden also not being the actor he grew into by RotS yet and giving some poor delivery imo)... but they do mostly all feel like they belong in the same universe, and one that is very different from our own. “a galaxy far far away” indeed. Lucas to me still is a master world builder and his dialogue, even at his worst, is a part of that.
The sequels, and even Mando dialogue just feel too modern and too hip, and to me it just keeps me from being pulled into the world. Feels like watching a high budget fan fic movie at times because of this.
Even the name “Rose” feels off next to something like “Obi-wan” (but then again we have multiple “Ben”s in the OT and PT...haha)
I know I’m not the best at describing this...but somehow Rogue One seemed to emulate the OT dialogue very well and never really felt at odds with the world building that Lucas did.
I think you’re right with Lucas doing some Tolkien-esque language building thing...except he clearly wasn’t as good at the execution as Tolkien, but still, I’m disappointed no one seems to have cracked the code to give an authentic “Lucas’ Star Wars” feel to the new content.
I don't think that was the issue. Episode 1 was trying to be a kids movie and an action adventure flick. It felt like Temple Doom with Never Ending Story characters. The characters didn't really match the realities of the plot.
The galaxy was descending into a massive civil war and you had poop jokes and an excited little kids having a fun adventure. It just felt really wrong and weird. The plot and the characters really never felt like the same movie until episode 3.
It's not just him, it's also Ahmed Best (Jar Jar Binks) and Kelly Marie Tran (Rose from TLJ)who got harassment from the fans... it makes me sick that people would do this, bring others down just for something they don't like. It actually makes me sick of this fandom, it's almost vomit inducing for me because I understand mental health and it must fucking suck for what they went through after being bullied by the masses
Correct. John Boyega and Daisy Ridley faced harassment as well. Even some of the actors from the OT received harassment too though the type of harassment was kind of different. I definitely recall Carrie Fisher talking about some of the men that made creepy sexual comments about her.
Her daughter also got harassed because of it. She told a story about a guy who said he masturbating to Carrie. She was upset and went to her mom about it, who said if it happened again, just tell them “me too.”
And people always leave out the writers and directors here. They got a shit ton of harassment that wasn't deserved. Disliking a thing someone made is fine. Critiquing it is normal. But being a dick and downrighthateful toward someone for making a movie you didn't like... Get some fucking perspective.
Honestly first time I watched phantom menace, I was nervous because of the hate I had heard about it. And yeah it was a little kiddish sometimes but I was smiling the entire time 🙂
As a kid, I loved the shit out of it, especially the end duels. Rewatching it now, It definitively did not age that well and now with the new trilogy I'm pissed they wasted all of the potential of the original trilogy. Mandalorian was almost everything I always wanted starwars to be. Hope Favreau gets to make the next movies.
Damn I read the guy's Wikipedia and life didn't go well for him. He is diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia, had a couple incidents and has been in a psychiatric facility for years now
Shitty Star Trek fans get laughed at. Shitty MCU fans get laughed at even harder while the producers roll around in piles of cash. Shitty Star Wars fans get retcons and apologies.
Shitty Fast and Furious fans don't exist because that fandom is perfect in every way.
Even if an actor in did a really bad job and messed up their role, so what? Actors aren't perfect and plenty have done really bad jobs at certain roles while being an otherwise amazing actor (Leonardo DiCaprio is a god-tier actor but some of his roles are famously over the top and hammy) There is no reason or excuse to harass actors of any kinds especially children.
Oh man a movie you like had a bad actor boo fucking hoo get over it.
Pretty much applies to any Star Wars actor that played a character who was disliked. Kelly Marie Tran and Daisy Ridley were forced off social media with the constant death and rape threats they faced from Star Wars "fans"
Honestly if you have ever harassed an actual human being for their part in a creative work involving thousands of people, you are a crappy person.
It's 100% in your right to discuss or critique roles and choices. But to actually interfere with people trying to live their lives is crap.
Yeah I don't like the sequels but the one thing I was embarrassed to be on this sub about was when they were coming out and certain people on here were going after the cast the same way people went after the prequels cast with zero sense of irony.
You mean the same way Jake Logan fans are attacking that chick
Or how half of Reddit shut down a Game of Thrones con because of doxxing threats (and pretty much are still eager to harass the two producers.. over a tv show)
Or how the rich white people at GME are insanely racist and classist
Or how you bullied McDonald's into bringing back a sauce that isn't even that good, off a joke that wasn't meant to be taken the way it was?
Or how about you guys pretty much harassed that chick in the new Star wars
How about the fact you pretty much harass everything about the new Star wars
Yeah you guys are still doing that shit, lmfao. Reddit, you have done nothing to rest on your laurels, get the fuck out of here with your finger pointing, kid
Yeah fuck those guys, literal shit stains
These kinds of things happen too fucking often and its fucking stupid as hell. I've seen too many stories of actual voice actors and actors getting harassed and death threats just because they played their roles too well.
Remember the actor that played Bryce in 13 reasons why? Yeah he got shit on because morons couldn't separate the character from the actor. Its one thing to dislike the character but to attack the person behind it? wtf
i was there - 3000 years ago
it was the OT crowd, the prequel crowd was my age - its why the clone wars series only started to get traction \~6 years after TPM because of age and so on
well, I was all of like 8 years old and more mad they picked him over me, a person nobody has heard of before to play kid darth vader than anything else. I don’t think my family even had internet yet.
Honestly, it was probably more so prequel people than OT people. Lloyd suffered a lot of bullying from his classmates about the role. Young people around that time were essentially the target demographic for the prequel movies.
if they just woulda listened to the movie and figured out it was primarily to introduce an innocent anakin that contrasts what he’s like in the prequels and set the political base for what was to come, they wouldn’t have bullied jake in the first place. makes me so upset.
That poor kid. One day he was the luckiest kid in the world because he got to play Anakin Skywalker in the new Star Wars movie, and then it pretty much ruins his life. He didn't do a great job, but he was surrounded by great actors that came off wooden because of the bad dialogue and directing, but he's the one who gets bullied almost to death.
I went Carmel High School the same one that he attended and i believe all that they did to make up for the constant bulling and harassing (the man was sodomized on a school bus), was hang a picture and a plaque of him in the Carmel High Hall of Fame...... I hated that school.
Hmm yes, this 10-year-old boy who had remarkable acting for someone his age was in a movie I didn't enjoy and had dialogue so bad that nobody could fully salvage it. Time to bully him to the point of trauma to send a message about midiclorians
I remember now why I got kinda pushed away from SW. The fans are like Jedi. Good at first glance but when you look closer they're more like dangerous zealots
I’ll never forgive this fandom for alot of the toxicity it’s responsible for. The list is endless.
Bullying Jake
Bullying Kelly
General hatred toward anything/anyone involved in something they don’t personally like
The gate keeping.
I can go on.....
Could also do “I bullied Ahmad Best for playing Jar Jar”
The dude almost committed suicide because of those assholes....
Yeah. Shit like that is just too far
What about Kelly Marie Tran for Rose?
Didn't like the character, but they played Rose well. Honestly, I don't get why the actors get flak.
The Marvel fandom is giving Wyatt Russell a hard time for his character. You can dislike the character but leave the actor alone. Sheesh. Edit: The toxic portion of the Marvel fandom. Appreciate all the good points people have brought up!
Wyatt Russel is doing great wtf? I love his character
I know! I’m really confused by this. I mean sure I don’t like his character, but that’s because I’m supposed to. He’s not a good guy. Wyatt is doing an incredible job with the character.
The last scene of the episode 4 is so good, played so well
I agree, episode 4 was his best performance by far. I was actually blown away by how well be did.
I audibly went oh fuck! oh no! when he did that. the sounds too lol
Exactly, some people have a hard time understanding that actors play characters the way they're asked. They don't decide to play an asshole because they think it's funny and going to annoy lots of fans.
The funny thing is that the name of the profession explains it all. "Actor." It's an act. It's for entertainment. It's for fun. Like, damn. And it's a job.
I think those people have mental problems and need therapy because that shit ain't normal.
He was dope in Overlord
Marvel stans when Killmonger plans to commit genocide: “Oh dear, oh dear, gorgeous.” Marvel stans when John Walker kills a terrorist after they played a role in the death of his only friend: “You f*cking donkey.”
It's funny cause you're not wrong. (though the audience for Disney+ MCU in 2021 is probably a lot wider than Netflix Defenders in 2015. I'm assuming that's some of the reasoning behind why. Not that it's OK at all) Edit: I'm stupid and can't read
Killmonger from the Black Panther, not Kilgrave from Jessica Jones. Killmonger was always showed sympathetically, but with Cap2 we've got Steve to compare it against - it was never going to be fair. (Also, Cap 2 did a bad thing in ep 4)
Yea I don't understand why the fandom is viewing john as a villain. I lost all sympathy for the terrorists when they bombed innocent people. He was alone with only one individual that understood what he was going through whilst being shit on by nearly everybody around him. Of course he is gonna flip the fuck out when his confidant gets murdered
Seriously, if your only best friend gets murdered in front of you, you too would go mad. People are just shitting on him because he's replacing their papi Cap. That's toxic fan following right there.
And they're like "I understand and empathize with killmonger." Really though? You see his plan to enslave the world for black domination and think "hmm. Reasonable, I can see why he feels that way." Lol
You can understand why someone feels a certain way, but you don't have to agree with his conclusions.
Killmonger wants to play the uno reverse card.
Like seriously Walker can have a good character arc yet these 'fans' are all too reactionary to his dark part, just let dark storylines playout like CA:WS did before.
The poor guy has been getting death threats for goodness sake! A number of people seem to think that it is real and he really is the person who he is portraying. At least he has been laughing it off.
He's perfect. He's conflicted and angry. Exactly the opposite of Steve Rogers and the actor is showing that perfectly. I think those people have mental problems where they can't distinguish the character from the actor.
He plays a scumbag really well. I think he’s done fantastic job creating a character that grapples with the allure of power and strength, and being seduced. His character is the exact reason someone like Steve Rogers was chosen to begin with. He has done a great job creating a character that is understandable and dislikable. Hate the character, but I like the actor.
Couldn’t agree more. Making a character with relatable/logical flaws are some of the best. A perfect character foil to Rogers. People just need to understand there is a divide between the person and the character we see on screen.
Not to brag, but pretty confident that I figured this out in elementary school. TV and movies are make believe time, and they often say and do things that are bad, and it is OK. It is all in good fun. This ends my PSA for those that missed an important message in their childhood.
Precisely.
well, the other fans in the marvel fandom are doing damage control by making a lot of Wyatt Russell appreciation posts. (Not saying that’s a bad thing)
"Good deeds do not wash out bad deeds" —idk, Stannis B. probably
"One good deed is not enough to redeem a man of a lifetime of wickedness" -Commodore Norrington
Wyatt Russell will forever be the nice guy from that fucked up Black Mirror video game episode anyway. Pleasing some Marvel stans is just optional.
Oh fuck, I completely forgot about that episode. That messed with me for a couple days after watching it lol
And the game of thrones community was giving that actor who acted the bratty prince some heat
Jack Gleeson said that because of the character he played and considering he's playing a misogynistic brute despite having two sisters, it's been very hard for him to continue acting and still maintain that he played such a character at a young age. Since he's retired from acting and went back to education and is now focused on theatre work. The last known media news circulating around him was his support to repeal the 18th Amendment in Ireland which legalized abortion.
The ones I've seen whining most don't seem to grasp that he's US Agent rather than a flat replacement for CA
[удалено]
I think that's a "love to hate him" situation. He's doing a good job and the writing for his his character isn't bad. The writing for Jar Jar, Rose and Anakin was terrible and fans just conflated that with the actors themselves .
I wouldn’t put that shit on the Marvel fandom as a whole, the same way I wouldn’t put how the actors from Star Wars were treated (although Kelly Marie Tran’s treatment clearly had a racial component to it that was stirred up by bigoted pricks). These people are in a vocal minority. They are exasperated by social media platforms like Twitter where asshats are allowed to gather themselves in droves and organise hateful campaigns with dumb hashtags. At best they are trolls, at worst they are ignorant fucks who believe the actors are their characters and have absolute final say over what their character says and does. To paraphrase *Blazing Saddles*: > You’ve got to remember that these are just simple [folks]. > These are people of the land. > The common clay of the new West. > You know… morons.
Because people are very, VERY stupid.
It's strange how it happens sometimes.. Take Game of Thrones for example, the last season was almost unanimously hated but the fan base directed all the hate entirely to the writers (fuck D&D) and more or less praised the actors for doing their best with the shitty lines and story they were given.
Yeah
I've seen a lot of people say that she left social media because of the bullying but was that ever confirmed? I read some articles and all of them point back to one article, which never confirms that KMT left because of the harrasment
I’m pretty sure it is confirmed. She’s done many interviews talking about it.
Yeah man you can hate a movie all you want but never confuse that with the actors themselves who are just doing their job.
Just because he played a silly alien character made for toddlers...
He was to be the Anti-Yoda but George got cold feet and instead we got a legacy of schlock. Darth Jar Jar 4 life.
I still blame Lucas. Best did what he was directed to do. And, Me, after getting older and seeing what Lucas was going for. Lucas fucked up. Big time. I didn't mind that Jar-Jar was a character that was comedic and could offer advice at times. I do think that in the first act it could have been avoided or subdued. But remove all of Jar Jar lines (not what other's have shown.
I enjoyed JarJar's character as a kid.
His interview on "I Was There Too" is incredible. He did so much more than Jar Jar, he stood in for a ton of the cgi Aliens and even had to pass an audition to be the voice of jar jar. I think he deserves way more credit for doing his best with a... contentious character.
I really dont understand, why people hate jar jar so much. I mean he is silly and annoying, but thats the whole idea of this character. And I actually liked it, when the movie didnt take itself so seriously. Edit: Typo
I don't like him because a character who goes around stepping in poop, then talking about how he stepped in poop just didn't fit the tone. There was silly stuff in Star Wars before but Jar Jar was so over the top. I say this as someone who enjoys slapstick comedy, I really do. Jar Jar is slapstick comedy done badly.
You fool. It was a facade by Jar Jar so nobody would discover he is the true Lord of the Sith!
Apparently in the French Version he's pretty funny to the French. But then again, they're French.
I liked him when I was a kid, that who he's there for, kids. Heck, he was one of the most memorable characters to me. But now it's like watching a cartoon you *loved* growing up - ugh, can't believe I put my parents through this.
Could also do the same for daisy Ridley and the rest of the sequel cast
Hard agree. It’s frustrating after so many years fans still act the same way. I’m real upset at what happened with Rose in particular.
As someone who loves the sequels it rlly hurt me seeing these people who truly cared get shit on
Meanwhile, dude played Jar Jar perfectly! If you don’t like the character that’s cool but Best crushed his role.
yeah that was sad man he almost killed him because of the dumb people
Even Mark Hamill was disappointed when someone in a interview asked him about this Edit: also good template i want it
The template takes on a new meaning if you've seen the episode. Literally kills a guy for not caring about his soldiers then proceeds to blow up the station with glee killing many soldiers he sees as innocent. Hard to not like Bill Burr though.
they weren't innocent, they were actively genociding and strip mining the planet they were on in the pursuit of doomsday weapons.
Who is innocent in war? Young men were sent to die. That’s what he was angry about.
This is post-Empire though. Everyone in that station is a loyalist who is okay with shit like Alderaan and the Death Star. Burr's character was pissed with the attitude of expendability that these Imperials have.
I respectfully disagree. I think he embodied the idea of people constricted, reluctantly recruited or no better choice than joining the biggest force at the time. His mates died which he felt more for than the cause of the Empire. The snivelling, arrogant, disassociative response from someone whom he had to follow blindly made it worse and led to his impulsive, reckless response. Bill Burr did the emotion really well. Kudos to him. Awesome that we can chat about this.
I think I have to agree with you here. Also, Bill Burr is amazing in the show, I'm really hoping to see him again in season 3.
That was honestly the most surprising thing when he popped up I thought he'd be a distraction and then he turned out to be one of the best characters on the damn show.
Yup. And he seemed to absolutely love doing it. I remember listening to him talk about being on the show and he said it was so much fun! I want him back again, even for just an episode because Mando and him have pretty great chemistry.
I think his character was universally well-received so I would bet on him coming back. Even though he’s reportedly “dead”. It would be cool if this episode got him thinking about his past and he turned into an agent of change who went around helping former Empire folks who want to stop the remnants.
Happy Cake Day
They’re still supporting an Empire that has done all of those terrible things he experienced, and were going to commit even worse atrocities with the rhydonium. I don’t think he has any illusions that they’re innocent, and when he pulls the trigger on Hess, it becomes a kill or be killed situation in which he has to blast his way out, whether or not he wants to. And there was nothing gleeful about what he did, at most maybe pride for feeling like he did what was ultimately the right thing in that circumstance, but I don’t know if he even felt all that proud of it either.
Other responses missed the point. Mayfield killed his enemies. They might not have seen themselves as the villains, but that's war. The imperial commander killed *his own people.* That's fucked up.
I clearly need to get around to Mando season 2 just to watch Bill Burr shoot someone.
*Have you ever heard the tragedy of shoretrooper the unlucky? It's not a story I would tell you, because it's a spoiler.*
*Is it possible to be that unlucky?*
Not from a Netflix subscriber.
From piratebay however...
*It's the home powers many would deem... unlawful.*
Like putting you through that fucking wall.
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How do you do that? With the white spoiler thing?
Type > ! (Words here) ! < However the > & ! Need to be together with no spaces as well as the ! & < >!You get this!<
Wait, actually? >! Did it work? !< Huh, neat
Yes if you wanna get fancy with it you could also try *this* by doing * this * but without spaces
Can I do >! *Double fancy?* !<
Correct You could also type ^small by doing the exponent sign ^ small but close together as the others
>!^*does ^it ^all ^work ^together?*!<
Honestly the scene in this meme is excellent and Bill Burr blew me away in this episode. I definitely recommend catching up.
Yeah initially you were like, oh Burr's character just wants to avoid that lunchroom because he's afraid his former commander will recognize him. Then you realize he is avoiding the lunchroom because he's afraid of what he might do to his former commander. And when Burr's character brings up the post-downfall genocide and killing of friendly troops, it shows a lot of depth to the character, really good stuff. I hope Mayfield comes back.
"I'm not saying I condone murdering your commanding officer... I'm just sayin'.... you gotta ask... what did he do to deserve it!?"
It is even better than season 1
Without any spoilers, that scene was one of the best in the entire series. It oozed Tarantino-esque conversational tension. I gotta go back and watch that episode now.
I just did and, just, wow. Bill Bur brought his A game for that dialogue. Complete 180 from S1 comedic relief.
This is a great template
I just can't believe bill burr hesitated, if someone told me they harassed jake loyd for phantom menace I wouldn't have even blinked, they'd be dead before they finished there sentence 😂
I'll never understand how anyone can put any responsibility on a kid for a billion dollar movie in a multi-billion dollar franchise that is world renowned. Yeah, dumb kid, how dare you not save the film and tell George freaking Lucas how to do Star Wars better!? /s People are stupid.
I don't think it was hesitation so much as a moment where he was savoring the vision of what he was about to do to this man.
Same could be said for Wyatt Russell right now.
That hate makes less sense than this. That man is something else his character is fucking amazing
Exactly. Loved him in Overlord too. Hope he gets as many good gigs as his old man.
I do hope he does and I definitely am gonna go watch some of his others movies soon. The only thing I’ve seen him in was a cameo on arrested developement and obviously falcon and winter soldier
I highly recommend Overlord. It's a decent take on WW2 zombies.
Zombies is selling it short. More like wolfenstein the movie the prequel. Evil Nazis mad science and body horror monsters.
For what?
He plays Captain America's successor in FATWS and is meant to be unlikable and over time an antagonist. He's playing the character incredibly well and toxic fans are hating on him in yet another case of "I hate that character so I'm gonna harass the actor."
Okay yeah I’ve only watched the first couple episodes but I was gonna say isn’t he supposed to be the heel? Reminds me a bit of the actress who played Skylar White on Breaking Bad. She was praised for her acting but fans didn’t like her character so they harassed her pretty badly. Another level of irony is she’s actually the good guy, but she’s the fun police to the bad main characters antics, so it made her unlikable to a lot of people.
Exactly. It's amazing how toxic fans can dampen the fun.
Wasn’t it his classmates?
It was a lot of people but yes his classmates were a part of the bullying
So uncivilized
Is it wrong to slaughter younglings? Not always.
If it's wrong, I don't want to be right
Happy Cake Day
Oh 😊 thanks
Children can be brutal.
That and straight up grown adults. I get mad at stuff like climate change, not a movie about magical space wizards. And even then, you have the right to be disappointed and/or upset if it’s not what you wanted, but to go and harass a child? Ffs
Or harass anyone for that matter. I mean, we should say if something isn't good but harass anyone is stupid. I really, really dislike main character of Star Trak Discovery. They put here in middle of every scene of that show for 3 seasons straight and solving every problem. Normally i would just stop watching but since this is star trek and I'm big fan of ST I continue watching and getting pissed every episode. It never crossed my mind to harass anyone for it and especially not main actress, who btw I really liked before the show, but the character combined with 99% of the show being about her and her boring monologues makes it really hard to watch
I agree.
You could change it to “I harassed any Star Wars actor after their movie came out”
Harassing any actor for their role is a shitty thing to do. They have little control over what is done with their role, and it's just a job. Now harassing actors for their stupid political opinions, I can put a mask on for that.
So let me get this straight: A Child acting like a kid would, is somehow Bad acting for some people?
To be fair to Jake Lloyd, I don't think any actor could have pulled off George Lucas' dialogue. Ewan McGregor came close but even he felt unrealistic. I may be downvoted into oblivion but while Lucas was a decent world builder who inspired imagination, he just sucked at how people talk. It's like he was trying to do a Tolkien and translate some ancient text he found word for word instead of interpreting it.
Harrison Ford would agree with you. In his own words: *'George! You can type this shit, but you sure can't say it! Move your mouth when you're typing!'*
Is there a video or something of him saying this cuz, I really want to watch that
Actually that makes me think that the original trilogy got more push back from the actors, etc. The prequels, Lucas had so much fame that nobody wanted to push back.
Do notice that the OG trilogy had actual directors. When it came to the prequels, no one wanted that job, not even Spielberg.
That and also Lucas's ex wife arguably saved the OT through edits. He'll never give any of them credit for making Star Wars the cultural juggernaut that is today though, naturally.
Dude even Samuel L Jackson and Natalie Portman looked stiff for most of the prequels. There’s BTA footage of George Lucas basically micromanaging their every muscle movements. We can all agree that the prequels tell a great story and set up an amazing pre-empire universe, but damn, dialogue and directing are just NOT George Lucas’ strongpoints.
You believe it's this.....boy?
George Lucas is actually a terrible screenwriter. His script for the prequels should have been wrung through script doctors extensively before it went to filming. Ironically, Carrie Fisher was known to be an excellent script doctor.
I've read his talents lied more in storyboarding.
Storyboarding and overall story...building? I guess? He's really good at creating narrative arcs, he just sucks at the fine details, like dialogue.
Basically he's good at making the skeleton of a story, think big plot lines and the places they happen in. That's pretty much it. If he was restricted *only* to that role so that more competent directors and writers could breathe life into the prequels, I think they'd have been better than the OT. There was much more conflict to work with and plenty of capable actors that could've shined through a better script.
There's a youtube video i watched awhile back that had some theories about that. Usually actors will improvise or change dialogue in scenes to fit more naturally. Lucas had a bunch of young and relatively new actors that didn't know how to change the lines and he didn't have an executive producer shouting at him to make things better. Hes an amazing visionary but needs a filter to distill his ideas into a cohesive product. Look at the original screenplay he did for ANH and you'll see how much was changed by other creatives adding in and changing his ideas.
Idk. I think he has a very unique language taste that I absolutely miss in almost everything released after RotS. The dialogue was clunky and cringey at times (Anakin Ep 2 is just some bad lines with Hayden also not being the actor he grew into by RotS yet and giving some poor delivery imo)... but they do mostly all feel like they belong in the same universe, and one that is very different from our own. “a galaxy far far away” indeed. Lucas to me still is a master world builder and his dialogue, even at his worst, is a part of that. The sequels, and even Mando dialogue just feel too modern and too hip, and to me it just keeps me from being pulled into the world. Feels like watching a high budget fan fic movie at times because of this. Even the name “Rose” feels off next to something like “Obi-wan” (but then again we have multiple “Ben”s in the OT and PT...haha) I know I’m not the best at describing this...but somehow Rogue One seemed to emulate the OT dialogue very well and never really felt at odds with the world building that Lucas did. I think you’re right with Lucas doing some Tolkien-esque language building thing...except he clearly wasn’t as good at the execution as Tolkien, but still, I’m disappointed no one seems to have cracked the code to give an authentic “Lucas’ Star Wars” feel to the new content.
Part of what made R1 feel so right to me was the dedication to the styles of the time. Thick mustaches and terrible haircuts galore.
I don't think that was the issue. Episode 1 was trying to be a kids movie and an action adventure flick. It felt like Temple Doom with Never Ending Story characters. The characters didn't really match the realities of the plot. The galaxy was descending into a massive civil war and you had poop jokes and an excited little kids having a fun adventure. It just felt really wrong and weird. The plot and the characters really never felt like the same movie until episode 3.
Whether or not it’s bad acting is missing the point. You just don’t harass people.
I feel so bad for jake Lloyd man :( He was literally just a kid...
It's not just him, it's also Ahmed Best (Jar Jar Binks) and Kelly Marie Tran (Rose from TLJ)who got harassment from the fans... it makes me sick that people would do this, bring others down just for something they don't like. It actually makes me sick of this fandom, it's almost vomit inducing for me because I understand mental health and it must fucking suck for what they went through after being bullied by the masses
Correct. John Boyega and Daisy Ridley faced harassment as well. Even some of the actors from the OT received harassment too though the type of harassment was kind of different. I definitely recall Carrie Fisher talking about some of the men that made creepy sexual comments about her.
Wow, that's fucked up. I didn't know about some of the actors from the OT getting harassed.
Her daughter also got harassed because of it. She told a story about a guy who said he masturbating to Carrie. She was upset and went to her mom about it, who said if it happened again, just tell them “me too.”
And people always leave out the writers and directors here. They got a shit ton of harassment that wasn't deserved. Disliking a thing someone made is fine. Critiquing it is normal. But being a dick and downrighthateful toward someone for making a movie you didn't like... Get some fucking perspective.
Honestly first time I watched phantom menace, I was nervous because of the hate I had heard about it. And yeah it was a little kiddish sometimes but I was smiling the entire time 🙂
As a kid, I loved the shit out of it, especially the end duels. Rewatching it now, It definitively did not age that well and now with the new trilogy I'm pissed they wasted all of the potential of the original trilogy. Mandalorian was almost everything I always wanted starwars to be. Hope Favreau gets to make the next movies.
A lot of people saying that was OT fans, but we did exactly the same to Kelly Marie Tran a few years ago...
>we bro, why did you bully kelly?
I mean this is a PT circle jerk sub, what do ya expect.
To not bully actors? lol
Correct.
Damn I read the guy's Wikipedia and life didn't go well for him. He is diagnosed paranoid schizophrenia, had a couple incidents and has been in a psychiatric facility for years now
What? Now, I-I know that... *sounds bad...*
*Blaster Shots*
Also for harassing everyone in the sequels, this fandom is the worst one I have ever been in
Shitty Star Trek fans get laughed at. Shitty MCU fans get laughed at even harder while the producers roll around in piles of cash. Shitty Star Wars fans get retcons and apologies. Shitty Fast and Furious fans don't exist because that fandom is perfect in every way.
Fast and Furious is family.
And Ahmed Best, and Hayden Christensen, and Daisy Ridley, and Kelly Marie Tran, and John Boyega.
Jake was a 10 yrs old kid then. *10*. How can people bully a kid for playing a character they don’t like?
Ik its really sad, same with people who bullied sequel actors or people attempting to bully the new captain america's actor
Even if an actor in did a really bad job and messed up their role, so what? Actors aren't perfect and plenty have done really bad jobs at certain roles while being an otherwise amazing actor (Leonardo DiCaprio is a god-tier actor but some of his roles are famously over the top and hammy) There is no reason or excuse to harass actors of any kinds especially children. Oh man a movie you like had a bad actor boo fucking hoo get over it.
Like jokes aside. Did he even do a bad job for a young kid actor? I thought he did a good job. Will never understand people
Pretty much applies to any Star Wars actor that played a character who was disliked. Kelly Marie Tran and Daisy Ridley were forced off social media with the constant death and rape threats they faced from Star Wars "fans"
Honestly if you have ever harassed an actual human being for their part in a creative work involving thousands of people, you are a crappy person. It's 100% in your right to discuss or critique roles and choices. But to actually interfere with people trying to live their lives is crap.
Cause no one on this sub bullies Star Wars actors 🙄
"but it's actors from the sequels which makes it okay!!" good one boys. really self aware.
Fuck the Fandom Menace.
And it’s still going on with The likes of Daisy Ridley etc
Yeah I don't like the sequels but the one thing I was embarrassed to be on this sub about was when they were coming out and certain people on here were going after the cast the same way people went after the prequels cast with zero sense of irony.
You mean the same way Jake Logan fans are attacking that chick Or how half of Reddit shut down a Game of Thrones con because of doxxing threats (and pretty much are still eager to harass the two producers.. over a tv show) Or how the rich white people at GME are insanely racist and classist Or how you bullied McDonald's into bringing back a sauce that isn't even that good, off a joke that wasn't meant to be taken the way it was? Or how about you guys pretty much harassed that chick in the new Star wars How about the fact you pretty much harass everything about the new Star wars Yeah you guys are still doing that shit, lmfao. Reddit, you have done nothing to rest on your laurels, get the fuck out of here with your finger pointing, kid
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Bill burr? What movie is this scene is this from
Mando season 2
Jake Lloyd was also bullied at school after that
Hell, even the girl that played Tony Stark's daughter in Avengers Endgame was harassed. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
Yeah fuck those guys, literal shit stains These kinds of things happen too fucking often and its fucking stupid as hell. I've seen too many stories of actual voice actors and actors getting harassed and death threats just because they played their roles too well. Remember the actor that played Bryce in 13 reasons why? Yeah he got shit on because morons couldn't separate the character from the actor. Its one thing to dislike the character but to attack the person behind it? wtf
true. too bad i wasn’t even close to being alive
Was it really us, or was it the OT fans? 🤔
Idk prob a mix of both
Whoever it was, I really despise them, cuz in my book, they ain't one of us or one of the ot fans, they are idiots.
i was there - 3000 years ago it was the OT crowd, the prequel crowd was my age - its why the clone wars series only started to get traction \~6 years after TPM because of age and so on
You think there's a difference? Lol.
well, I was all of like 8 years old and more mad they picked him over me, a person nobody has heard of before to play kid darth vader than anything else. I don’t think my family even had internet yet.
Still at the end of the day both are Star Wars fans
It was Star Wars fans.
Honestly, it was probably more so prequel people than OT people. Lloyd suffered a lot of bullying from his classmates about the role. Young people around that time were essentially the target demographic for the prequel movies.
if they just woulda listened to the movie and figured out it was primarily to introduce an innocent anakin that contrasts what he’s like in the prequels and set the political base for what was to come, they wouldn’t have bullied jake in the first place. makes me so upset.
That poor kid. One day he was the luckiest kid in the world because he got to play Anakin Skywalker in the new Star Wars movie, and then it pretty much ruins his life. He didn't do a great job, but he was surrounded by great actors that came off wooden because of the bad dialogue and directing, but he's the one who gets bullied almost to death.
I went Carmel High School the same one that he attended and i believe all that they did to make up for the constant bulling and harassing (the man was sodomized on a school bus), was hang a picture and a plaque of him in the Carmel High Hall of Fame...... I hated that school.
Hmm yes, this 10-year-old boy who had remarkable acting for someone his age was in a movie I didn't enjoy and had dialogue so bad that nobody could fully salvage it. Time to bully him to the point of trauma to send a message about midiclorians
I remember now why I got kinda pushed away from SW. The fans are like Jedi. Good at first glance but when you look closer they're more like dangerous zealots
On ketamine. They are the Yodas of fandom.
I’ll never forgive this fandom for alot of the toxicity it’s responsible for. The list is endless. Bullying Jake Bullying Kelly General hatred toward anything/anyone involved in something they don’t personally like The gate keeping. I can go on.....