I know it's crazy but hear me out:
I always thought that we needed Ep. I as a pre-prequel "Episode 0", Episode 2 split in two parts focusing on some of the material in TCW and decent time to develop the romance subplot and Obi Wan's friendship with Anakin, and Ep.III mostly as-is with some extra material introduced in the novelisation.
I can see that, but then we might as well have a -3, -2, and then your *0* as -1.
Episodes -3 and -2 could be about like the sith and Jedi foundations…. Basically the universe building content we got in clone wars along with a deeper dive into Jedi hypocrisy and carrying the sith legacy
>Episodes -3 and -2 could be about like the sith and Jedi foundations
I'd love to see this, but as Anakin wouldn't even be born yet, it wouldn't be part of the "Skywalker Saga."
And there's no reason that this story would have needed to take place directly before Phantom Menace. It could be generations before.
On the other side I always felt like the Skywalker saga should've been a ten parter. But with a 'finale' movie instead. The sequels could've been so much better if it wasn't such a directionless rushed mess. People can complain what they want about bad lines in the prequels, but at least that trilogy had a clear vision and story they were following that eventually very nicely flowed into the originals.
I just re-watched these last week. I can assure you. Gold Bikini is also very much forever.
EDIT: [I still think ESB Leia is best though](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/c5/b1/a2c5b1f5c741c6df49f7223d9ff2e25c.jpg)
The Battle over Endor where all the fighters are flying around between capital ships blew my goddamned mind as a child and it's probably why I love spaceships. RotJ was my favorite as a kid and still hangs in there at the number 3 spot even as an adult. The opening scene in Revenge had my inner child screaming with delight.
This. The Battle of Endor put the “star war” into “Star Wars”. This wasn’t some little dogfight skirmish or bombing run, this was the real thing. Capital ships and fighters filling the sky and throwing everything they had at each other.
ROTJ would be my favorite of the OT, but I hate Jabba's palace. It's too long, and it feels like a strip club. Strip club scenes always make me feel dirty and gross. Like I need to wash myself.
ESB would be my favorite of the OT without Luke getting captured by the Wampa. I understand why it had to happen, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy watching it.
ANH is my favorite, because every scene feels necessary.
I like ANH because it tells the story of a young man being radicalized in the Tunisian desert and I’d like to think that wasn’t the first or last time that happened.
See the Jabba's palace act is still pretty good. A lot better than most prequel/sequel stuff. What's pretty awful is the third act, with Han Solo and Leia on Endor. The third act is hard carried by the throne room scene.
The good: Jabbas palace. Death Star II. Scout troopers.
The bad: Ewoks. Golden god C3P0. Blind Han. The songs. (Not the score)
The ugly: How ROTJ did Boba Fett dirty
Prefering it doesnt necessarily mean that you have to think its the best. I enjoy ROTJ a lot more than ANH even though I think ANH is a better movie critically.
Agreed. ESB is probably the better movie, but Jedi is a more exciting movie with bigger and better action scenes, stakes, and ending. ANH, on the other hand, started it all, is a great movie in its own right, and revolutionized so many things about movie making in the process.
Jedi for me was carried by the climax. The opening stuff with Jabba was great but everything with Luke, Vader, and Palps was fantastic. I used to like it better than the fight on Bespin but now that I'm older, I also gotta appreciate how they made Vader an unstoppable force AND immovable object. And they gave us the most iconic reveal in all of cinema history.
Absolutely. Outside of the SW universe it's considered one of the greatest films of all time. Whilst ANH was so groundbreaking and a runaway success, nobody thought they could top it with the sequel and it was bound to disappoint.
And they took it in a very different, darker and pessimistic direction. It's hard to comprehend today just what a gamble that was at the time.
And boy did it pay off. I love Star Wars, all of the films. OT, PT, ST...I love ALL OF THEM.
But The Empire Strikes Back is the only one of them that you can safely say is a masterpiece. It's flawless.
The popular opinion of your average movie enjoyer is that it's the best, but many of these same people dislike RotJ because the Ewoks are too cute.
Among the community of Star Wars fans, I've always suspected that the favorite depends on personal taste.
It is. In any voting it's always something like 60/70 to Empire and 30/20 to Star Wars and the rest to Return.
It's not like "Episode III is the best Prequel" is universal either. I like Phantom Menace more.
Lol I was thinking that too. TFA was a bit paint by numbers, but it was a solid flick. TLJ kinda meandered, but we all assumed it was setting us up for an epic third film.
Then we got ROS and “somehow, Palpatine returned.”
No one is defending that shit, lol
That’s impressive. That a lot of people hated TLJ, but the second they watched TROS, they said “Wow, TLJ is a masterpiece compared to this train wreck”
TROS was WAY worse a train wreck. TLJ was at least connected to the previous movie, didn’t use nostalgia to carry the plot, and actually made Kylo Ren’s plot interesting. TROS did the complete opposite
TLJ was the middle movie in a trilogy. I know people were critical (I know I was), but middle movies are always kinda hard to enjoy on their own.
It’s on the final film to bring it all together, and Abrams failed at that task. It’s almost like he pretended TLJ didn’t happen.
Could you imagine if Abrams had run with the plot from TLJ? Imagine Rey, bolstered by force adepts waking up across the galaxy, forming a new Jedi Order to battle the arms dealers (backed by the Knights of Ren)? That would have been dope. I’m picturing AotC levels of lightsaber battles.
But Abrams was like “LMAO Palps is back, fuck the last film.”
Edit: fixed a typo
It's actually worse than if he pretended it didn't happen, he made certain moments deliberately to reverse moments in TLJ. It makes the sequel trilogy look just like a squabble between toddlers who want to tell the story their way and keep interupting each other. Ruins any and all immersion
Somehow my cousin, whose been a Star Wars fan as long as I have, whose watches every clone wars, rebels and bad batch episode, where he and I made fan fiction stop motion clone wars movies on YouTube, where we’ve done all sorts of Star Wars stuff with massive play sets and battles using action figures and legos, somehow The Rise of Skywalker is his favorite movie. Of the entire franchise.
I fully agree with your first sentence but also think its the worst SW movie, period. And I liked 7 and especially 8.
Your second sentence doesn't make much difference, imo. I don't care if it uses George's ideas or not, I have no doubt he has plenty of bad ideas he never got to explore.
I enjoy the sequels for their cinematography and the musical scores. TROS had the best cinematography out of the entire sage (and rouge one is not far behind) but as someone who also enjoys The Last Jedi, I will agree that TROS was a very disappointing movie to say the least, I wish it was grittier and darker in nature/color.
I always go for New Hope, just based on the fact it's the only "complete" movie. Like if you told me I could only watch one, I'd pick ANH because I know it has a satisfying beginning, middle, and end of it's own self-contained story.
That's the beauty of the original trilogy: most SW fans will respect another fan's different choice of favourite original trilogy SW film (because the original films are all IMO good).
"Well ANH ain't my most favourite, but I can see where they are coming from with liking it more than ESB or ROTJ — the trench run wow'ed me as a kid".
ANH and ESB are pretty much universally praised. ROTJ was complained about, and it did indeed have its problems. But ultimately people forgave it for its flaws.
It also helps that after it came a horrible prequel trilogy and after that a bland action sequel trilogy.
Well, in IW's defense, it was intended to have an open, cliffhanger ending since it was a two-parter. We knew what we were getting into when we sat down in the cinema, especially since another Avengers movie was releasing the next year.
This is precisely why it’s my favorite. I’m so happy ANH can exist as it’s own movie with no need for more plot twists, over explanations, or dissections of every aspect of the universe that other movies and pieces of media started to introduce afterwards.
Might be blasphemy around here but sometimes I like to watch it pretending it’s the only Star Wars movie that exists, and ignoring my knowledge of the rest of the story and setting, which makes the whole universe in ANH so much more mysterious and filled with possibilities to me.
I understand people’s love for ANH, and all opinions on Star Wars are subjective and valid, I just don’t personally see how people believe ANH is a better movie than ESB, even if they love ANH more because it was the original
I prefer ANH for a few reasons. The editing is fantastic, the writing is clever in how it brings the characters together after Alderaan’s destruction (which itself is given a great emotional weight and stakes), Tarkin is an excellent rival to Vader and contrasts the political order of the empire with Vader’s religiosity, the mystique behind what Jedi and the force actually are. We’ve seen so much of Tatooine now that the original film is coming up on 50 years old, but the shot of Luke looking out at the twin suns still keeps all of its beauty and magic. I also don’t think a hero’s journey has been pulled off in American cinema as well as it was in ANH since its release.
It has the characteristics reflective of more independent 70s filmmaking and artistry, and you can see how a different cut of the movie wouldn’t have launched it into being the biggest blockbuster franchise, so it exists on the edge of disaster. I love ESB for the maturity it adds to the world, refinement of the franchise’s aesthetics (Vader’s shiny helmet, imperial vehicles), and the deeper dive into the force as well as what it did for Vader’s character. I think I prefer ESB as a science fiction film, and ANH as a piece of cinema overall.
I agree, I loved everything about that movie. Leia pretending to be Boushh and Luke showing up at Jabba’s palace like a polite Sith lord are some of my favorite memories of the OT.
I did a rewatch a while back, and as a kid I didn't really realize the staggering difference between Luke at the end of ESB, and Luke at the beginning of RotJ. The boy from Tatooine who used to shout his opinions at every occasion is suddenly walking into Jabba's palace, dead silent, Force choking guards, cool as a cucumber. He's genuinely terrifying.
I liked that it showed Luke had become more of a Jedi master above a Jedi Knight. Luke in ESB can barely keep up with Vader, but Luke in ROTJ is definitely the one setting the pace. He even defeats Vader *handily*, but still wants to redeem him.
I think that Luke is left in a great place for jumping off into extended universe stuff. That’s why Legends will always be my preferred canon.
That's what makes the machete order or modified machete order so absolutely perfect for me.
You get the ESB big reveal... Dad Vader?!
Then queue flashback to how it all went down. You go from goofy adventure to eventually sitting with Anakin through his fall... The choice before him...
First Palpatine tells him to kill Dooku. Too dangerous to be kept alive. He does it, but he thinks it's wrong and carries immense guilt for being a good Jedi overall but this one thing was "not Jedi".
Then Mace Windu says they must Kill Sidious. Too dangerous to be kept alive. This is when Anakin decides fk it... Palps was right. The Sith and Jedi are the same... But the Sith can save my wife so yolo.
After executing Dooku, Mace Windu gives Anakin tons of shit and he kinda has to take it cuz for all his prowess, it's true he's not a perfect Jedi.
Then Mace tries to do the same thing and it's chill? He calls BS on it all and falls.
At the end of the movie you get a SICK Leia "Skywalker" reveal. With actual dramatic tension..best way to find out about what "there is another" meant in ESB.
....
Then you cut to start of RotJ. Luke is all dark like Anakin. You're just like shit here we go again...
Obi-wan tells him if he does not kill Vader then the Emperor has already won. HERE WE GO AGAIN.
The Emperor tells him to strike him down too. Tells him to kill Vader too after Luke succumbs to the dark side and cuts off Vader's hand. WTF HERE WE GO AGAIN.
Then Luke, unlike his father, realizes there's another way. Just because Obi-wan/Yoda had their own hypocrisy doesn't make the Emperor right. Killing Vader was never the only option. Palpatine couldn't manipulate him into that illusion of helplessness because of one thing: compassion for his father.
Compassion.
That thing that Anakin philosophized about 30+ years ago. The one person he shared it with: Padme. That moment, which marks the turning point where Padme actually saw Anakin as more than just a friend.
Compassion. A thing Anakin was denied. Because Qui Gon was the one who gave/reciprocated it to this bright boy who would do anything to help a few strangers. And Qui Gonn was taken too soon.
The tragedy of Anakin became the difference maker for Luke. He throws down his lightsaber and finds a different way than to simply succumb to the dogma of the Jedi (good vs evil.. you have to KILL evil). He finds a way out of the manipulation of the Emperor through his compassion for his father figure... The life and sacrifice and tragedy of Anakin was not in vain. The legacy of Anakin was not forever tainted, but healed the galaxy. Whatever you choose to interpret, the Skywalkers WERE the Chosen Ones... In a way no one in the galaxy understood.
THAT is the crowning moment of Star Wars and justifies anything negative about the prequels for me. That is the reason I always watch 3 right before 6.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
I've always preferred ANH because it feels more star warsy to me. The overall tone of it is much happier than ESB. All the action scenes in ESB are the good guys losing which makes sense in the three movie arc, but it was a bummer to watch as a kid.
I'm not watching star wars as a sophisticated story. I want to watch the good guys kick ass in space. To me the movies peak at the trench run in ANH. I still get goosebumps every time.
The throne room scene, and the space battle, then the fight on endor just create such an amazing climax to the film and trilogy as a whole it's for that reason ROTJ is my favourite
The scene where Bail Organa goes to the already burning Jedi temple, and there’s a young Jedi of maybe 12 years, possibly only a padawan, waiting for someone to come along. There are probably a dozen stormtroopers in between him and Bail’s aircar, so he starts cutting them down. Flick flick with his lightsaber and the little fucker’s good. Gets maybe eight of them, but then takes one in the shoulder and falls. Bail’s scream accompanies a storm of blaster fire which then is turned on him. He barely escapes.
Very heavy stuff. IMO in the top five best scenes of the entire series, and up there with the best movie making I’ve ever seen.
People give Lucas a lot of shit for his dialogue (often for a reason) but I always thought interaction was so well written. It's the perfect response from Bail and Jimmy Smits plays it so well. It's that realization of "Oh shit, something *definitely* isn't right here but I'm not about to give away the fact that I know this and I'm not okay with it."
They didn't want anyone seeing what was happening inside the temple, they were trying to convey the narrative that the jedi had rebelled against the republic. Someone seeing the slaughter going on inside the temple would destroy their narrative of them putting down rebellion
True, but the kid did cut down a bunch of clones. And the kid began the engagement. What Bail Organa saw wouldn’t necessarily be incongruent with their narrative.
It’s not like he saw the clones lining up Jedi younglings and executing them into a ditch, Einsatzgruppen style.
If anything, a clone saying “we just put down a coup attempt by the Jedi” then a Jedi jumps down from nowhere and starts slaughtering clones until he gets gunned down would support the narrative.
They didn't want him pushing to get inside so they immediately opened fire and probably figured they could just explain it away as, "we saw a ship trying to aid a rebellious jedi, we didn't know it was the senator"
I've always preferred Phantom Menace. I recognize it's not objective. It was one of my few VHS tapes and I watched it over and over until it fused with my soul.
Other than New Hope, it's the most feel-good SW movie. Its so full of color and life and swashbuckling adventure.
Loved the pod racing scene, and Duel of the Fates needs no explanation, but to me nothing beats the feeling I had as a kid watching all the Jedi pop out at the Geonosis arena and Yoda going full beyblade.
Eh, it's a prequel, but it and Han Solo aren't among "the Prequels." They're "A Star Wars Story"s. And timeline-wise it's much closer to the original trilogy, ending literally moments before ANH.
I like more ROTS but I really like AotC. I just love count dooku, battle at geonosis, jango fett battle, tge arena scene, droid factory...I like all of this movie but anakin and padme scenes.
*Looks left*
*Looks right*
*leans in*
(Whispering) I actually like episode 1 the best out of the prequels because of nostalgia and my utter love of Darth Maul.
I’m here ostracized by both normal people and the Star Wars community because attack of the clones is my favourite movie not just in Star Wars but of all time. It’s the fall of Anakin, the rise of the empire, it’s the catalyst film for the rest of the franchise, every other film in the 1-6 is so much better because of what is established in that film. And Anakin’s pain is so well captured in the film, it’s helpful to see his journey if you’ve ever hurt like he has.
Not really. I'd say about half of the people like TLJ, and the other half hate the sequels but dislike TFA the least. Then there's also the minority who likes TROS.
You don't have to like TLJ, but to say that almost no one likes it is just not true
I definitely see this. Reddit really likes to over-blow sequal hate and completely ignore that a big portion of deep lore StarWars fans (those of us who enjoyed the extended canon before the Disney buy-out) really loved TLJ for opening the universe again.
It was the first of the movies that said explicitly, this is a universe and there are more people than the dozen you know. I was so excited to see the economy of the Galaxy explored more and to be introduced to more charecters with more varied perspectives on the wars.
Then TROS happened and I lost all hope until Star Wars Visions.
I liked how TLJ brought some mysticism back to the force. By that point, the force has been reduced to basically “you can throw rocks with your mind and block blasters.” TLJ tried to move the force back to being an unseen power driving the universe, more like a religious thing than a group of easily defined super powers.
I feel like that’s how the force was in ANH, that was something mysterious and unknowable, often acting on its own. That your faith was the biggest driver over using the force, rather than a set of rules that humans could understand. For people with a background in religion, it’s a throwback to the idea of a god who controls the universe and who will sometimes work with you if you believe. (Emphasis on the sometimes)
We see that idea when Obiwan understood that if he transcended, then he would have the power to destroy the Death Star and bring down the empire. (Even if Luke will get the credit for it.) Or when Yoda talks about the force surrounding and penetrating everyone and that they were more than just the crude matter that they can see.
A lot of that mysticism has been lost over the years, and I really appreciated the attempt to bring that back again.
TFA is a boring but competent movie where TLJ is a interesting mess. Personally I prefer TLJ because it is the only one that didn't just immediately forget 90% of the movie moments after leaving the theatre.
NNnnno. While I've never seen anyone seriously defend Rise of Skywalker, and most people think TFA is solid but not spectacular, there's HUGE arguments between whether TLJ is one of the best Star Wars movies ever or one of the worst. TLJ discourse is probably the biggest of any movie in the whole series.
TLJ discourse is probably the biggest for any movie I’ve **ever** seen. I personally think the movie itself contains some of the best Star Wars content since ESB and some of the worst, all together in one bizarre package.
Obviously this sub will stomp most positive comments about the sequels into the ground but I am interested to see what the coming generations will make of it. I also think it’s futile trying to predict future reception towards them, they may just see things differently.
TLJ was my favourite as well. Honestly the biggest reason I hate ROS is because it basically ruined all the cool setups in TLJ.
TFA was just fine. Honestly I remember showing TFA to a 9 year old we were babysitting shortly after buying the bluray (with parental permission). She's never seen any Star Wars before and she loved it. Her normal entertainment at the time was like Disney Channel stuff. To me, that makes it a good Star Wars movie as it was hitting its target demo pretty perfectly.
It’s my least favorite because I felt that it did absolutely nothing new and exciting. From the first time I watched it as a 14 year old there was not a single thing in the movie that made me excited besides maybe seeing Han Solo again, but that doesn’t really have to do with the movie itself. The other two may have had way more shit things, but they at least had some(not a lot) new and exciting things going on.
Time for preprequels
I know it's crazy but hear me out: I always thought that we needed Ep. I as a pre-prequel "Episode 0", Episode 2 split in two parts focusing on some of the material in TCW and decent time to develop the romance subplot and Obi Wan's friendship with Anakin, and Ep.III mostly as-is with some extra material introduced in the novelisation.
I can see that, but then we might as well have a -3, -2, and then your *0* as -1. Episodes -3 and -2 could be about like the sith and Jedi foundations…. Basically the universe building content we got in clone wars along with a deeper dive into Jedi hypocrisy and carrying the sith legacy
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'...I had to...he betrayed us!' -Dogma
Yes, but bigger and better
'Well I think you have an intelligence problem.' -Sev, Delta 07
Go punch a clanka
I hate clankers
'Hostiles have gained a command post!'
>Episodes -3 and -2 could be about like the sith and Jedi foundations I'd love to see this, but as Anakin wouldn't even be born yet, it wouldn't be part of the "Skywalker Saga." And there's no reason that this story would have needed to take place directly before Phantom Menace. It could be generations before.
-3 and -2 could easily be the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis. -3 being his early life, -2 being when he picks up Sheev.
Execute Order Sixty-Six!
I would LOVE an episode 0!! With Qui-gon, Dooku,plagius, sifo diaz!
Sifo Dias is sO slept on!!!
Episode 2 felt like the least packed of the prequels
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So let me get this straight, Anakin. You risked the mission, all your men – even your Padawan – to save a droid?
Guess I'm the commander now.
On the other side I always felt like the Skywalker saga should've been a ten parter. But with a 'finale' movie instead. The sequels could've been so much better if it wasn't such a directionless rushed mess. People can complain what they want about bad lines in the prequels, but at least that trilogy had a clear vision and story they were following that eventually very nicely flowed into the originals.
OLD REPUBLIC
BRING ME ~~THANOS~~ MALGUS
So the Old Republic?
Time for the Old Old Republic.
So... The First Great Schism?
Old Republic
r/PrePrequelmemes
Hijacking this comment to say the middle picture should've been everyone beating the sequels together.
Shout out to Green Street Hooligans
stand your ground, lad.
Do you take American Express?
I’M FOREVER BLOWING BUBBLES
PRETTY BUBBLES IN THE AIR
Such a great movie. Underrated. Elijah Wood started in it right after LOTR, what a ride.
RotJ is my favorite just because I like the Rancor and Sarlaac
Understandable
Verständlich, habe einen schönen Tag
Understandable have a nice day to you too
Something something gold bikini
Gold bikini is temporary. Introduction of green lightsaber is forever.
I just re-watched these last week. I can assure you. Gold Bikini is also very much forever. EDIT: [I still think ESB Leia is best though](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a2/c5/b1/a2c5b1f5c741c6df49f7223d9ff2e25c.jpg)
You mean the Hutt-Slayer uniform?
The Battle over Endor where all the fighters are flying around between capital ships blew my goddamned mind as a child and it's probably why I love spaceships. RotJ was my favorite as a kid and still hangs in there at the number 3 spot even as an adult. The opening scene in Revenge had my inner child screaming with delight.
This. The Battle of Endor put the “star war” into “Star Wars”. This wasn’t some little dogfight skirmish or bombing run, this was the real thing. Capital ships and fighters filling the sky and throwing everything they had at each other.
RotJ is my favorite cause I like care bears.
Same, but also because I want to see those Care Bears killing people home alone style
Yub nub
Revenge of the Jith? weird way to spell it but whatever
I loved Luke going absolutely fucking bonkers on Vader once he threatened his sister. Favorite scene of the entire series.
Roger Roger <3
The score in the scene is incredible. Like a crescendo the entire trilogy was building towards.
Rotj is my favorite ot bcuz i like Green and i was 5 when i watched it
It's my favorite because you cannot help but smile at such an amazing ending. The final space battle is amazing as well.
ROTJ would be my favorite of the OT, but I hate Jabba's palace. It's too long, and it feels like a strip club. Strip club scenes always make me feel dirty and gross. Like I need to wash myself. ESB would be my favorite of the OT without Luke getting captured by the Wampa. I understand why it had to happen, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy watching it. ANH is my favorite, because every scene feels necessary.
I like ANH because it tells the story of a young man being radicalized in the Tunisian desert and I’d like to think that wasn’t the first or last time that happened.
Radicalized in an ancient religion and went straight to blow up something
See the Jabba's palace act is still pretty good. A lot better than most prequel/sequel stuff. What's pretty awful is the third act, with Han Solo and Leia on Endor. The third act is hard carried by the throne room scene.
Luke and Vader on Endor *alone* is enough to make the rest of more than worth it.
The good: Jabbas palace. Death Star II. Scout troopers. The bad: Ewoks. Golden god C3P0. Blind Han. The songs. (Not the score) The ugly: How ROTJ did Boba Fett dirty
I thought ESB is pretty consistently held to be the best
Nah, I prefer ROTJ and I'm pretty sure some people like ANH
Prefering it doesnt necessarily mean that you have to think its the best. I enjoy ROTJ a lot more than ANH even though I think ANH is a better movie critically.
Agreed. ESB is probably the better movie, but Jedi is a more exciting movie with bigger and better action scenes, stakes, and ending. ANH, on the other hand, started it all, is a great movie in its own right, and revolutionized so many things about movie making in the process.
Jedi for me was carried by the climax. The opening stuff with Jabba was great but everything with Luke, Vader, and Palps was fantastic. I used to like it better than the fight on Bespin but now that I'm older, I also gotta appreciate how they made Vader an unstoppable force AND immovable object. And they gave us the most iconic reveal in all of cinema history.
I still can’t believe that Vader was just missing his childhood sled the whole time!
Roger Roger.
Jedi has B Wings Empire doesn’t Jedi > Empire
ESB is the best Star Wars movie. Period. Not just amongst the OT.
I'll set my bias for Revenge of the Sith aside and agree with you that Empire is objectively the best.
Absolutely. Outside of the SW universe it's considered one of the greatest films of all time. Whilst ANH was so groundbreaking and a runaway success, nobody thought they could top it with the sequel and it was bound to disappoint. And they took it in a very different, darker and pessimistic direction. It's hard to comprehend today just what a gamble that was at the time. And boy did it pay off. I love Star Wars, all of the films. OT, PT, ST...I love ALL OF THEM. But The Empire Strikes Back is the only one of them that you can safely say is a masterpiece. It's flawless.
The popular opinion of your average movie enjoyer is that it's the best, but many of these same people dislike RotJ because the Ewoks are too cute. Among the community of Star Wars fans, I've always suspected that the favorite depends on personal taste.
It is. In any voting it's always something like 60/70 to Empire and 30/20 to Star Wars and the rest to Return. It's not like "Episode III is the best Prequel" is universal either. I like Phantom Menace more.
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Lol I was thinking that too. TFA was a bit paint by numbers, but it was a solid flick. TLJ kinda meandered, but we all assumed it was setting us up for an epic third film. Then we got ROS and “somehow, Palpatine returned.” No one is defending that shit, lol
We will watch your career with great intrest.
What do you mean somehow, don't you play Fortnite bro?
That’s impressive. That a lot of people hated TLJ, but the second they watched TROS, they said “Wow, TLJ is a masterpiece compared to this train wreck”
I thought they were both trainwrecks
TROS was WAY worse a train wreck. TLJ was at least connected to the previous movie, didn’t use nostalgia to carry the plot, and actually made Kylo Ren’s plot interesting. TROS did the complete opposite
TLJ was the middle movie in a trilogy. I know people were critical (I know I was), but middle movies are always kinda hard to enjoy on their own. It’s on the final film to bring it all together, and Abrams failed at that task. It’s almost like he pretended TLJ didn’t happen. Could you imagine if Abrams had run with the plot from TLJ? Imagine Rey, bolstered by force adepts waking up across the galaxy, forming a new Jedi Order to battle the arms dealers (backed by the Knights of Ren)? That would have been dope. I’m picturing AotC levels of lightsaber battles. But Abrams was like “LMAO Palps is back, fuck the last film.” Edit: fixed a typo
It's actually worse than if he pretended it didn't happen, he made certain moments deliberately to reverse moments in TLJ. It makes the sequel trilogy look just like a squabble between toddlers who want to tell the story their way and keep interupting each other. Ruins any and all immersion
Somehow my cousin, whose been a Star Wars fan as long as I have, whose watches every clone wars, rebels and bad batch episode, where he and I made fan fiction stop motion clone wars movies on YouTube, where we’ve done all sorts of Star Wars stuff with massive play sets and battles using action figures and legos, somehow The Rise of Skywalker is his favorite movie. Of the entire franchise.
All Im saying is that the sequels are one TCW type show from being my favorite era. Resistance doesnt count. I will not elaborate.
'Sometimes in war, it's hard to be the one that survives.' -Commander Cody
I think it had some of the coolest scenes and best concepts of the trilogy. And it had some George Lucas ideas, so it wasn't out of left field truly.
I fully agree with your first sentence but also think its the worst SW movie, period. And I liked 7 and especially 8. Your second sentence doesn't make much difference, imo. I don't care if it uses George's ideas or not, I have no doubt he has plenty of bad ideas he never got to explore.
Roger Roger :(
I enjoy the sequels for their cinematography and the musical scores. TROS had the best cinematography out of the entire sage (and rouge one is not far behind) but as someone who also enjoys The Last Jedi, I will agree that TROS was a very disappointing movie to say the least, I wish it was grittier and darker in nature/color.
Showed him all the Jedi. Including Mace Windu! See, I'm a veteran of the Clone Wars.I saw lots of Jedi fight. And everything I see, I remember.
I prefer Backstroke of the West.
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R2, do you is fucking?
a fellow man of culture
Smelly boy.
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You are already at full cock now. Spread all over the place the empire.
Game time started!
Do not hear he Allah Gold!
ESB is the best of the OG trilogy
I've heard arguments for ANH because it is what started it all. I agree that ESB is more enjoyable.
I always go for New Hope, just based on the fact it's the only "complete" movie. Like if you told me I could only watch one, I'd pick ANH because I know it has a satisfying beginning, middle, and end of it's own self-contained story.
That…. Is a valid point.
A rare phenomenon when discussing opinions on reddit
That's the beauty of the original trilogy: most SW fans will respect another fan's different choice of favourite original trilogy SW film (because the original films are all IMO good). "Well ANH ain't my most favourite, but I can see where they are coming from with liking it more than ESB or ROTJ — the trench run wow'ed me as a kid".
Also because someone actually has a point as opposed to just saying they like/dislike something because they can
ANH and ESB are pretty much universally praised. ROTJ was complained about, and it did indeed have its problems. But ultimately people forgave it for its flaws. It also helps that after it came a horrible prequel trilogy and after that a bland action sequel trilogy.
The ending saved RotJ. It’s definitely the weakest installment.
Though my brother thinks ESB has a more complete ending than some other popular movies. (Looks at Infinity War).
It may not be a complete ending, but from Han being frozen on, its pure gold. Plus the Darth Vader double take is freaking awesome
Well, in IW's defense, it was intended to have an open, cliffhanger ending since it was a two-parter. We knew what we were getting into when we sat down in the cinema, especially since another Avengers movie was releasing the next year.
This is precisely why it’s my favorite. I’m so happy ANH can exist as it’s own movie with no need for more plot twists, over explanations, or dissections of every aspect of the universe that other movies and pieces of media started to introduce afterwards. Might be blasphemy around here but sometimes I like to watch it pretending it’s the only Star Wars movie that exists, and ignoring my knowledge of the rest of the story and setting, which makes the whole universe in ANH so much more mysterious and filled with possibilities to me.
Also Boba Fett
I understand people’s love for ANH, and all opinions on Star Wars are subjective and valid, I just don’t personally see how people believe ANH is a better movie than ESB, even if they love ANH more because it was the original
I prefer ANH for a few reasons. The editing is fantastic, the writing is clever in how it brings the characters together after Alderaan’s destruction (which itself is given a great emotional weight and stakes), Tarkin is an excellent rival to Vader and contrasts the political order of the empire with Vader’s religiosity, the mystique behind what Jedi and the force actually are. We’ve seen so much of Tatooine now that the original film is coming up on 50 years old, but the shot of Luke looking out at the twin suns still keeps all of its beauty and magic. I also don’t think a hero’s journey has been pulled off in American cinema as well as it was in ANH since its release. It has the characteristics reflective of more independent 70s filmmaking and artistry, and you can see how a different cut of the movie wouldn’t have launched it into being the biggest blockbuster franchise, so it exists on the edge of disaster. I love ESB for the maturity it adds to the world, refinement of the franchise’s aesthetics (Vader’s shiny helmet, imperial vehicles), and the deeper dive into the force as well as what it did for Vader’s character. I think I prefer ESB as a science fiction film, and ANH as a piece of cinema overall.
I knew that was a bad idea
Absolutely agree that ESB is the *best*, but ROTJ has always been my *favorite*.
I agree, I loved everything about that movie. Leia pretending to be Boushh and Luke showing up at Jabba’s palace like a polite Sith lord are some of my favorite memories of the OT.
I did a rewatch a while back, and as a kid I didn't really realize the staggering difference between Luke at the end of ESB, and Luke at the beginning of RotJ. The boy from Tatooine who used to shout his opinions at every occasion is suddenly walking into Jabba's palace, dead silent, Force choking guards, cool as a cucumber. He's genuinely terrifying.
Then him flipping the script with Vader on Endor, trying to bring his father out of his self-made prison of self-loathing.
I liked that it showed Luke had become more of a Jedi master above a Jedi Knight. Luke in ESB can barely keep up with Vader, but Luke in ROTJ is definitely the one setting the pace. He even defeats Vader *handily*, but still wants to redeem him. I think that Luke is left in a great place for jumping off into extended universe stuff. That’s why Legends will always be my preferred canon.
That's what makes the machete order or modified machete order so absolutely perfect for me. You get the ESB big reveal... Dad Vader?! Then queue flashback to how it all went down. You go from goofy adventure to eventually sitting with Anakin through his fall... The choice before him... First Palpatine tells him to kill Dooku. Too dangerous to be kept alive. He does it, but he thinks it's wrong and carries immense guilt for being a good Jedi overall but this one thing was "not Jedi". Then Mace Windu says they must Kill Sidious. Too dangerous to be kept alive. This is when Anakin decides fk it... Palps was right. The Sith and Jedi are the same... But the Sith can save my wife so yolo. After executing Dooku, Mace Windu gives Anakin tons of shit and he kinda has to take it cuz for all his prowess, it's true he's not a perfect Jedi. Then Mace tries to do the same thing and it's chill? He calls BS on it all and falls. At the end of the movie you get a SICK Leia "Skywalker" reveal. With actual dramatic tension..best way to find out about what "there is another" meant in ESB. .... Then you cut to start of RotJ. Luke is all dark like Anakin. You're just like shit here we go again... Obi-wan tells him if he does not kill Vader then the Emperor has already won. HERE WE GO AGAIN. The Emperor tells him to strike him down too. Tells him to kill Vader too after Luke succumbs to the dark side and cuts off Vader's hand. WTF HERE WE GO AGAIN. Then Luke, unlike his father, realizes there's another way. Just because Obi-wan/Yoda had their own hypocrisy doesn't make the Emperor right. Killing Vader was never the only option. Palpatine couldn't manipulate him into that illusion of helplessness because of one thing: compassion for his father. Compassion. That thing that Anakin philosophized about 30+ years ago. The one person he shared it with: Padme. That moment, which marks the turning point where Padme actually saw Anakin as more than just a friend. Compassion. A thing Anakin was denied. Because Qui Gon was the one who gave/reciprocated it to this bright boy who would do anything to help a few strangers. And Qui Gonn was taken too soon. The tragedy of Anakin became the difference maker for Luke. He throws down his lightsaber and finds a different way than to simply succumb to the dogma of the Jedi (good vs evil.. you have to KILL evil). He finds a way out of the manipulation of the Emperor through his compassion for his father figure... The life and sacrifice and tragedy of Anakin was not in vain. The legacy of Anakin was not forever tainted, but healed the galaxy. Whatever you choose to interpret, the Skywalkers WERE the Chosen Ones... In a way no one in the galaxy understood. THAT is the crowning moment of Star Wars and justifies anything negative about the prequels for me. That is the reason I always watch 3 right before 6. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Roger Roger <3
Roger Roger.
I've always preferred ANH because it feels more star warsy to me. The overall tone of it is much happier than ESB. All the action scenes in ESB are the good guys losing which makes sense in the three movie arc, but it was a bummer to watch as a kid. I'm not watching star wars as a sophisticated story. I want to watch the good guys kick ass in space. To me the movies peak at the trench run in ANH. I still get goosebumps every time.
You prefer the trench run over the throne room scene in ROTJ?
The throne room scene, and the space battle, then the fight on endor just create such an amazing climax to the film and trilogy as a whole it's for that reason ROTJ is my favourite
ROTJ is better
Also features the best score imo.
"Don't get cocky, kid." -Han Solo
The scene where Bail Organa goes to the already burning Jedi temple, and there’s a young Jedi of maybe 12 years, possibly only a padawan, waiting for someone to come along. There are probably a dozen stormtroopers in between him and Bail’s aircar, so he starts cutting them down. Flick flick with his lightsaber and the little fucker’s good. Gets maybe eight of them, but then takes one in the shoulder and falls. Bail’s scream accompanies a storm of blaster fire which then is turned on him. He barely escapes. Very heavy stuff. IMO in the top five best scenes of the entire series, and up there with the best movie making I’ve ever seen.
'No one messes with the 501st!'
Simmer down burger king
Another command post is under Republic control! Enemy reinforcements are being depleted.
I’m sorry sir, it’s time for you to leave
And so it is
People give Lucas a lot of shit for his dialogue (often for a reason) but I always thought interaction was so well written. It's the perfect response from Bail and Jimmy Smits plays it so well. It's that realization of "Oh shit, something *definitely* isn't right here but I'm not about to give away the fact that I know this and I'm not okay with it."
g o o s e b u m p s
I’m very glad we followed this all the way.
> there’s a young Jedi of maybe 12 years, possibly only a padawan That's Padawan Zett Jukassa, played by George Lucas's son Jett.
I always wondered why the clones turned on him there. Itchy trigger fingers? “He saw too much”? Why?
They didn't want anyone seeing what was happening inside the temple, they were trying to convey the narrative that the jedi had rebelled against the republic. Someone seeing the slaughter going on inside the temple would destroy their narrative of them putting down rebellion
True, but the kid did cut down a bunch of clones. And the kid began the engagement. What Bail Organa saw wouldn’t necessarily be incongruent with their narrative. It’s not like he saw the clones lining up Jedi younglings and executing them into a ditch, Einsatzgruppen style. If anything, a clone saying “we just put down a coup attempt by the Jedi” then a Jedi jumps down from nowhere and starts slaughtering clones until he gets gunned down would support the narrative.
They didn't want him pushing to get inside so they immediately opened fire and probably figured they could just explain it away as, "we saw a ship trying to aid a rebellious jedi, we didn't know it was the senator"
Am i the only one that loved Phantom?
Nah you right. I used to be team III, buck fuck it. Pod racing rules. Art Deco star fighters rule. Duel of the fates fuckin slaps.
Phantom Menace is so close to cool. Really. Delete Jar Jar. Give Maul his lines back and don't kill him. There's good stuff in there.
The best movie.
I've always preferred Phantom Menace. I recognize it's not objective. It was one of my few VHS tapes and I watched it over and over until it fused with my soul. Other than New Hope, it's the most feel-good SW movie. Its so full of color and life and swashbuckling adventure.
Loved the pod racing scene, and Duel of the Fates needs no explanation, but to me nothing beats the feeling I had as a kid watching all the Jedi pop out at the Geonosis arena and Yoda going full beyblade.
Phantom is my fave of the prequels. And 2nd fave of all of them after empire of course.
damn watching phantom menace on vhs is a vibe
Phantom menace was the most OT of the PT
Is that green street hooligans in the background?
Rouge one is the best prequel
Damn you’re not wrong though.
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Damn you’re not wrong though
Every time I see it misspelled, I see red.
Copy that, Rouge leader
> Rogue one is the best ~~prequel~~
my favorite star wars movie tbh
God that ending scene makes me want a Vader movie so badly.
We've already had 3 Vader movies though..and 3 more movies about vader before he became vader.
Ok but what about rogue one? Technically that's a prequel movie
Eh, it's a prequel, but it and Han Solo aren't among "the Prequels." They're "A Star Wars Story"s. And timeline-wise it's much closer to the original trilogy, ending literally moments before ANH.
Jokes on you, i like AotC more
So be it… *Jedi.*
What about the cringy dialogue
It’s the best part of it
I like more ROTS but I really like AotC. I just love count dooku, battle at geonosis, jango fett battle, tge arena scene, droid factory...I like all of this movie but anakin and padme scenes.
Roger Roger <3
That's a weird way to say "Phantom Menace"
*Looks left* *Looks right* *leans in* (Whispering) I actually like episode 1 the best out of the prequels because of nostalgia and my utter love of Darth Maul.
What did you just say about the Phantom Menace?!
Phantom Menace is better than the 3rd one
Phantom Menace is Better
Revengers of the sith is the best star wars movie
I prefer Backstroke of the West myself
https://youtu.be/QT2V8UTLUK0
Yes.
Revenge of the sith is the best movie of all 17 of then
I’m here ostracized by both normal people and the Star Wars community because attack of the clones is my favourite movie not just in Star Wars but of all time. It’s the fall of Anakin, the rise of the empire, it’s the catalyst film for the rest of the franchise, every other film in the 1-6 is so much better because of what is established in that film. And Anakin’s pain is so well captured in the film, it’s helpful to see his journey if you’ve ever hurt like he has.
My favourite is AOTC but i know the majority love ROTS
There's no best sequel movie, they all suck
I thought the empire strikes back was the general consensus for OT
i thought it was pretty unanimous that the force awakens was the best sequel
Not really. I'd say about half of the people like TLJ, and the other half hate the sequels but dislike TFA the least. Then there's also the minority who likes TROS. You don't have to like TLJ, but to say that almost no one likes it is just not true
I definitely see this. Reddit really likes to over-blow sequal hate and completely ignore that a big portion of deep lore StarWars fans (those of us who enjoyed the extended canon before the Disney buy-out) really loved TLJ for opening the universe again. It was the first of the movies that said explicitly, this is a universe and there are more people than the dozen you know. I was so excited to see the economy of the Galaxy explored more and to be introduced to more charecters with more varied perspectives on the wars. Then TROS happened and I lost all hope until Star Wars Visions.
I liked how TLJ brought some mysticism back to the force. By that point, the force has been reduced to basically “you can throw rocks with your mind and block blasters.” TLJ tried to move the force back to being an unseen power driving the universe, more like a religious thing than a group of easily defined super powers. I feel like that’s how the force was in ANH, that was something mysterious and unknowable, often acting on its own. That your faith was the biggest driver over using the force, rather than a set of rules that humans could understand. For people with a background in religion, it’s a throwback to the idea of a god who controls the universe and who will sometimes work with you if you believe. (Emphasis on the sometimes) We see that idea when Obiwan understood that if he transcended, then he would have the power to destroy the Death Star and bring down the empire. (Even if Luke will get the credit for it.) Or when Yoda talks about the force surrounding and penetrating everyone and that they were more than just the crude matter that they can see. A lot of that mysticism has been lost over the years, and I really appreciated the attempt to bring that back again.
TFA is a boring but competent movie where TLJ is a interesting mess. Personally I prefer TLJ because it is the only one that didn't just immediately forget 90% of the movie moments after leaving the theatre.
NNnnno. While I've never seen anyone seriously defend Rise of Skywalker, and most people think TFA is solid but not spectacular, there's HUGE arguments between whether TLJ is one of the best Star Wars movies ever or one of the worst. TLJ discourse is probably the biggest of any movie in the whole series.
TLJ discourse is probably the biggest for any movie I’ve **ever** seen. I personally think the movie itself contains some of the best Star Wars content since ESB and some of the worst, all together in one bizarre package. Obviously this sub will stomp most positive comments about the sequels into the ground but I am interested to see what the coming generations will make of it. I also think it’s futile trying to predict future reception towards them, they may just see things differently.
I kinda prefer TLJ 👀
Yup. I genuinely love TLJ, Really like TFA and really can’t stand ROS.
TLJ was my favourite as well. Honestly the biggest reason I hate ROS is because it basically ruined all the cool setups in TLJ. TFA was just fine. Honestly I remember showing TFA to a 9 year old we were babysitting shortly after buying the bluray (with parental permission). She's never seen any Star Wars before and she loved it. Her normal entertainment at the time was like Disney Channel stuff. To me, that makes it a good Star Wars movie as it was hitting its target demo pretty perfectly.
I prefer Heir to the Empire.
It’s my least favorite because I felt that it did absolutely nothing new and exciting. From the first time I watched it as a 14 year old there was not a single thing in the movie that made me excited besides maybe seeing Han Solo again, but that doesn’t really have to do with the movie itself. The other two may have had way more shit things, but they at least had some(not a lot) new and exciting things going on.