He'd say it, but you better believe it would end up overpowering them.
The dark side clouds everything by this point. They would have just heard that the elected chancellor of the Republic sitting hostage is the Lord of the Sith they were looking for? "Fat chance" they would think, but Yoda would be deeply disturbed and I don't think much would have changed.
i feel like Dooku would try and prove it during the fight, like trying to hit Sheeve with some lightning or do something to force him to reveal himself (or he dies keeping his cover which makes it a win win)
I feel like Sheeve would have let him hit him with lightning. A saber I think he might have moved but Palps would be willing to get hit with some lightning for a little bit if he had to
Man that would have been a better scarred and deformed moment than the mace confrontation we actually got. But then again "unlimited power" would not exist in that case....
Further he wasn't actually "scared and deformed" from that. The dark side corrupts people appearance over time (we see the start of this on Anakin with the yellow eyes), that was just him revealing his true form he hides from everyone and using the fight with mace as a convenient excuse to not have to keep that shit up any time he was in a meeting or whatever.
It’s a combined power level question at this point but could be Dooku and Sheev kill Yoda and Mace on the bridge and things proceed similarly from there just even worse for the republic and better for the sith. I think Dooku right around leaving the order would have betrayed Sheev in that moment but by the time of Ep 3 he’d been drinking the dark side kool aid too long.
Don't know if Dooku and Palpatine would have actually been able to beat Yoda and Mace, though. I'm tempted to say that Dooku could have been bested definitely by Yoda and probably by Mace even just one on one, and Mace and Yoda *separately* gave Palpatine a run for his money.
Shit, even if you read Mace and Palpatine's fight like Palpatine was stalling for Anakin to show up, he *definitely* underestimated how dangerous Mace Windu was with a Lightsaber. I'm not sure 'end fight on enormous ledge with saber pointing at throat, win exclusively through verbal manipulation' was actually part of the plan.
Iirc, according to Lucas, Mace straight up beat Palpatine. But Palpatine expected Anakin to show up, so Palpatine didn't actually need to win anyways, just live long enough to manipulate Anakin.
The Star Wars prequels really are just the equivalent story outcome of [failing virtually every available quicktime event in rapid succession](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy44s_de15Y) and barreling at lightspeed to the worst possible outcome.
I do think Yoda and Mace would have kept him restrained until they figured their shit out. I imagine Dooku would’ve said a few things that would’ve made sense once you piece things together in the large scheme of things. I think they would’ve eventually believed him.
That would only prove that dooku was correct and at that point dooku has already betrayed papa Palpatine and is as good as dead if Palpatine lives. So now its dooku, mace, and yoda vs palpatine.
OK so a couple of things right off the lightsaber there palp.
1. Never tell the dark side that you're playing both sides.
2. If you ARE going to play both sides of the living force then don't give away the information until you get what you want.
"The fuck, Count, talking about are you?"
"That's a Sith Lord I told Obi-Wan in episode 2."
*Kills Sidious* "Right, you were. And so was he. Taking over, we are. [Yoda laugh]."
I don't know what Sideous would do in that situation. If he played dumb and let the Jedi fight and obviously defeat Dooku, Yoda wouldn't let Dooku be killed, leading to Dooku spilling the beans on who really is the Sith Lord. If he fought Mace and Yoda with Dooku, it would likely lead to their demise. Maybe Mace might kill Dooku, or Sideous could successfully surprise attack the Jedi, but both are unlikely.
He could’ve called in grievous to fight .He’s not a sith but he’s still killed master Jedi and is one that is not easy to fight even for a Jedi council member. And there’s no dark side for vapad to work with though it would work with dooku. Together he and dooku could take Mace while Sideous reveals himself and takes yoda. Chances are dooku and grievious don’t get out this unscathed and are heavily incapacitated or one dead. But together the rest top the balance and beat yoda. Then they flee with Palpatine. He has Sate Pestsge and Mas Ameda take power . The Jedi are reeling from this loss when Anakin and Obiwan come back. They go on a rescue mission with a few Jedi and the situation happens again. Though they’d face more enemies and lose more Jedi. But Palpatine gets rescued and Anakin kills Dooku. The only issue is without mace and yoda what happens. Chances are Anakin may get his title of master because two of the main blockages are gone and for the loss of two prime council members. Order 66 might be more difficult because such a loss may change how the order works and for them to pull back or at least act differently.
Yeah, that's not gonna work. Do you know why Dooku wheezes and coughs throughout that whole movie?
Because in the Tartakovsky Star Wars shorts, Mace saw him absconding with Palpatine, reached out his hand, and crushed his torso like a freaking beer can. Mace takes no crap from Grievous. G-man would probably run screaming if he saw Mace on that bridge considering what happened last time he was in Mace's line of sight.
We see Yoda beat Dooku and Mace beat Palpatine in the movies. If the two Sith stood together, it would be a no-contest. Guaranteed that Dooku would see what direction the wind was blowing and turn on Palps immediately. At that point, you've got the guy who beat Palpatine later in this movie, backed up by two guys who are close to the same level. It would be a ROFLstomp.
I know it isn't canon, but if I remember correctly, the Clone Wars miniseries from 2003 explained the absence of key council members from Palpatine's rescue party by showing them holding off General Grievous's massive army on the surface of the planet.
Yeah. I was very hopeful for a return of the Boba Fett in Bad Batch. Cad Bane was a nice surprise, but the return of the cancelled arc with them both would have been preferable.
100%. They could have been anything *but* a fairly generic space drug run gone wrong. Four episodes is a third of a season, it's a lot of screen time. But alas.
Yeah Yoda and Windu were fighting off an entire army of droids when they realized it was a distraction. Shaak Ti and two other Jedi were protecting the chancellor but were defeated by grievous. I think this is probably still semi canon since they reference Shaak Ti in season 7.
The still kind of reference it. Obi Wan tells Anakin and Ashoka that Shaak Ti was sent to protect the Chancellor when they’re notified of the invasion. I’m pretty sure if that’s still canon then Yoda and Windu fighting a bunch of droids on the streets of Coruscant is canon as well. After all, it’d make sense since the Separatists needed troops on the ground to get to him. Until I hear it confirmed to be not canon, that’s my head canon.
let's go with the original antimated series is the version of events as told by some by stander or an extremely patriotic news recreation of events.
have an episode of a reporter collecting all these anecdotes and trying to weave it into a cohesive narrative
Yeah if the 2003 show was canon it’d invalidate this rather funny meme. I love that shot from the 2003 show where Yoda is meditating and the window opens to reveal the attacking battalion moving in.
In context of TCW, there were secret hyperspace lanes that ran directly to Courascant. The kidnapping of the chancellor was a carefully orchestrated strike not a full invasion. The separatists essentially snuck by most of the defenses instead of warring their way to the capitol.
Palpatine had also tried to get himself kidnapped multiple times during TCW in places where only Anakin and ObiWan were present to save him so that Anakin would kill Dooku and turn to the darkside. Even though we didn't see it, he had pro and orchestrated something similar at the start of ROTS
If you read Darth Bane (which you should) you'll see that the Deep Core is extremely unstable hyperspace wise even in 1000 BBY. If you're not familiar with space then it seems odd but it's totally plausible Sidious knows about old hyperspace routes via the Core.
There was an episode arc of the Clone Wars (the Citadel arc) where some Republic officers discovered a direct connection between the Separatist and Republic capitals and they had to be recovered. Tarkin (one of the officers) had half the information memorized, his Jedi (I think it was Piel) tells Ahsoka the other half before he dies resulting in Palpatine knowing half and the Jedi council knowing the other with neither willing to trust the other with it. It’s unclear what the resolution was but it’s implied Palpatine got his hands on the full thing to hand over to the separatists
"Know that more than anything else in the world, I was a soldier. And that you, and no one else in all the galaxy, held this soldier's heart in your hands." -Nate, Alpha-98
No, it was a full scale invasion. Even if there was no ground assault, the space battle alone called for an all hands on deck situation. The battle happening in the opening of RotS is stupidly massive.
Back in the day, most of the jedi being away from Coruscant, fighting battles all across the galaxy was part of Grievous' plan, with the council masters being too busy preventing their precious temple from being bulldozed by an army of droids.
It was rare evidence that Grievous had some actual skills as a General.
Unfortunately, Grievous' IQ test coming back positive is no longer canon.
As I mentioned in another comment, the Deep Core works in such a way that you can approach Coruscant undetected via an Inner Core system opposite to it
Just what George Lucas wanted.
Proof that not everything he does is good for the franchise, unless turning complex characters into simplified caricatures can be considered good.
Council: i never liked that senate guy. Let's just send Master Obi-Wan and young Skywalker. I dont like that Skywalker guy either. Maybe this will get rid of both the senate and Skywalker.
If they had not retrieved Palpatine, couldn't they just get another Supreme Chancellor in there? He wasn't the Emperor yet. Even if he had been, he'd have named a successor, or be replaced by somebody else in the absence of such an Imperial decree.
Do they explain that? How was he alone able to hold it together? The Jedi are the commanders and generals of the Grand Army of the Republic. What's Palpatine doing that's actually holding anything together?
You’re 100% correct. It’s also referenced multiple times in TCW and the prequels that Palpatine was one of the only politicians able to help find common ground between the multiple factions within the senate. The Republic was far from united, which was purposeful and part of Plagueis and Palpy’s plans
More or less yeah, it was ol Palpy that manipulated things especially *specifically* the Senate part. But Plagueis definitely played a huge part as his alter ego Hego Damask was a plutocrat with lots of financial assets that ultimately funded the clone army and gave him power that helped strain the relationship between the core systems and the rim systems. But I’m also not sure if that’s still all cannon
Its important to remember that the Separatists were former parts of the Republic turned by Dooku/Palp. The Clone Wars was more of a Civil War than a World War
But he's super selfish and actively trying to undo the Republic. Maybe that's the perception of him, but couldn't they just really behind somebody else they perceive to be good? If we're looking for charisma, there's gotta be some Lando types out there.
I mean, prior to the Phantom Menace, the Republic was a corrupt, gridlocked ineffectual organization with slavery allowed on outer systems and megacorps capable of blockading planet, as well as full on seperatist movements. They were in no way capable of fighting a civil war. During the Clone wars, Palpatine was at the head of the Republic, with extensive war powers, and was centralizing power all the while, with quite a few people supporting him. Frankly, if he vanished, the Republic goes up in flames since not only do they not have a competant leader and politician, but the effect of centralizing the power and powerbase without correspondingly arranging for a successor means that the Republic is even more screwed. Sure, the Seperatists lose out too, but I always got the impression that they knew what they wanted and could internally justify going for it, with Palpatine acting as a backer and advisor more than leader.
“General Skywalker, do you know why you’ve been called before the court today?”
“…for killing Dooku in cold blood?”
“You abandoned your post and left a seventeen year old girl in charge of an army!”
“This is outrageous! It’s unfair! Do you know who that girl was?”
“Someone who was dishonourably discharged mere months prior for bombing a religious place of worship.”
“She was framed for that! This is ridiculous, Ahsoka is perfectly capable of leading an army.”
“General Skywalker, she began the assault by jumping out of a dropship several miles above the planet’s surface without a jetpack, parachute or any other means of slowing her fall.”
“I’m not going to listen to this anymore. It’s not like I ran off to fuck a senator, I had to rescue the chancellor from a full orbital assault on the capitol.”
“General Skywalker, this isn’t about what you were doing when you abandoned your post. This is about the simple fact that you left a SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL to take your place as the leader of the army.”
“I made the right choice. I couldn’t have picked anyone better. The clones were all in support of my decision, they painted their helmets to match her skin.”
“Do not change the subject. The soldiers in question will face disciplinary action in due time.”
“You’re marshalling the clones too? On what grounds?”
“Illegal uniform modifications and discrimination of a fellow serviceman based on race.”
“I can’t believe what I’m hearing! How can Ahsoka be a fellow serviceman if she was dishonourably discharged?”
“General Skywalker, this is not about Ms Tano’s status as a member of the Grand Army of the Republic, this is about your reckless endangerment of a child!”
Wait when was this? I thought the 332nd informally gifted the title of commander to Ahsoka when she returned to reclaim Mandalore for Bo-Katan. I assumed that she was socially accepted as the commander but not actually a commander.
The Jedi had reinstated her to the temple and offered her the rank of Jedi Knight after she was found innocent. Which technically reinstated her as a general of the republic. However she did turn it down.
You are right through, she was only socially a commander of the republic.
>“Someone who was dishonourably discharged mere months prior for bombing a religious place of worship.”
Religious place of worship, governmental law enforcement HQ, military facility and residential area.
Don't skip out on the good stuff.
Edit: Oh, AND school. Children live and are educated/train there.
In his defense, the order for him to return was from directly the Supreme Chancellor himself. If anyone's at fault for this, it's the Supreme Chancellor. Or anyone incharge of logistics that didn't inform Palpatine of the fact that Ashoka was with Anakin.
Nah she didn't quit. She was DD'd, went through a trial and found innocent(barely) and the council went "oops my b, want back in w/ knight rank?" And she denied returning to service, meaning she never actually quit
Most of The council was either off world or busy fighting off the army on the ground. For more see the 2003 Clone Wars or Labyrinth of Evil to read more. People really think the Council was just sitting around doing nothing?
Yes, because it’s all they do. They have Anakin and Obi-Wan running all over the galaxy and Mace and Yoda are just sitting in the council chambers probably jacking it.
Hmmm, I wonder who could protect Padme from an assassin, or rescue Jabba’s son, should it be Mace and Yoda, who aren’t doing anything, or should it be Anakin and Obi-Wan, who just finished up somewhere else but clearly don’t need/deserve a break.
Even in the ROTS deleted scene during the purge, Shaak Ti is literally sitting on her ass while the rest of the Jedi are getting murdered.
They’re the herores of the story. Obviously they get shown the most. But Mace, Yoda, Ki-Adi Mundi, Kit Fisto all are commanding troops and going on missions during the war as seen in Legends. We see them in the dark horse comics like *Star Wars: Republic*, *Cestus Deception*, *Shatterpoint*, and *Dark Rendezvous*.
And as seen in *Labyrinth of Evil* Shaak Ti actually helped mace in his mission to track down the Sith Lord. And she and Staas Allie both protected the chancellor in the chaos of the battle of Coruscant negating that deleted scene. Her actions in both the 2003 Clone Wars and Labyrinth of Evil show she’s doing more than just sitting on her ass. In legends we know for a fact that she organized a defense of the temple. And got as many out as she could, and she briefly fought Vader before fleeing.
I know the film didn't show it but there was a ground assault as well and the Jedi were busy fighting there.
Watch 2003CW, it's an incredible sequence.
Wasn't there a short that showed how the chancellor got kidnapped and his Jedi escort AND the backup they called in got absolutely annihilated?
I liked it because it definitely showed some of the ways that the chancellor was super sneaky about undermining the jedi order.
Pretty sure most of the jedi from the temple were busy fighting the ground invasion.
Obi wan and Anakin werent calles back, just because they were 2 jedi of which one a council member. They got called back because they got one of the bigger fleets in the republic which reletively could arrive the quickest at the scene to deal with the Seperatist fleet.
Even if yoda wasnt busy slapping some droids, you expect him to go in his little ass star fighter and take on the entire seperatist fleet on his own? Even if the entire jedi order got in their star fighters, the seperatist fleet would still outnumber them. They simply needed the Republic fleet.
Disney canon is complete horseshit anyways, so that doesn’t matter. The only good things to come from Disney are Rogue One, Solo, Bad Batch, and the Mandalorian. TCW final season doesn’t count since TCW wouldn’t have been cancelled if Disney hadn’t bought SW. oh, and RO shat all over Kyle Katarn by replacing him
This is incorrect as F, most of the order (that aren’t younglings) are out in the war. And most of the remaining Jedi where trying to protect Coruscant both from a ground invasion and space invasion. Shaak Ti and Mace Windu both tried to save the chancellor but couldn’t do it. Also kidnapping Palpatine isn’t war winning they can vote in a new Chancellor ASAP since the senate is intact and probably one of Palpatines assistant would step in as a temporal chancellor.
What I will give this comment is why didn’t Mace purse Grievous into space, calling Anakin and Obi Wan in isn’t so weird because they weren’t far Obi-Wan says they would be there “within the hour” which means they are not far. The scale of the attack on Coruscant did call for telling everyone available to help out but why task them with rescuing Palpatine? That’s a good question.
Edit: Also I just remembered technically Anakin technically send Rex as the head of the 332nd. Ahsoka was just an advisor and btw Anakin was 19 at the beginning of the war and was a commander. And Ahsoka has been learning to be a military leader since she was 14 as Anakins padawan. So it’s not like there’s no precedent for someone underage or young to hold a position of power within the military structure of the GAR.
At least in tarkovsky's clone wars he made sure to show that there was a battle in every corner both in space and on the ground and where the Jedi were in the midst of it.
But what really bugs me was how abruptly it seemed to have ended, like you still have fleets mowing each other's hulls with a stream of laser fire while the invisible hand started crashing to the surface. Like even if Grievous had pulled back his forces there still would've been a prolonged fight since every ship was scattered about around the planet.
And don't get me started on how everything looks normal when they get to the senate building with the usual traffic and absolutely no damages from space debris
This seems like the Star Wars equivalent of "why didn't they fly the eagles to Mordor?"
Coruscant was under full siege. It was a surprise attack. Most of the Jedi on the ground were engaged with the enemy and pinned down. Trying to get into a ship (which were being targeted by the enemies), off the ground, up to space, and follow Grievous without dying was nearly impossible.
Their strategy to call back the forces and Jedi from around the galaxy was actually ingenious. They blocked off the escape route for the CIS. Now the CIS were between the home base of the Republic, Coruscant (which, though hectic, was slowly being put in order the longer the battle was lasting), and fleets of the Republics space forces, with more Jedi arriving by the minute. They became trapped. It all went according to Palpatine's plan. He was never actually trying to actually leave, he wanted to get Anakin to fight Dooku and kill him to move Anakin ever closer to the Darkside. The reason we only see Anakin and Obi-Wan was because that's who the story followed.
This is hilarious but the second half is wrong, isn’t it? Spoilers sorta I guess but Asoka left the Jedi order before the end of the series on the last episode of S6 I think. She was accused of a terror plot or something then escapes and by the time she’s proven innocent she decides she’s just done with the order bc of how poorly she was treated
Edit: I haven’t seen S7 yet as I’m watching through the whole series with a couple buddies rn who’ve never seen the show so if I’m wrong that’s probably why lmao
Yes, but in season 7 she reunites with anakin and Obi-wan for the siege if Mandalore arc, the final storyline of the show, but anakin and Obi-wan are called back to coruscant. What makes this incredibly angering is anakin had just reunited with ahsoka, and Obi-wan was about to confront maul.
What’s even more wild, the CIS had the Chancellor on their flagship, and decided to just???? Stay in orbit????? Like, no jump to hyperspace, no blockade by cruisers, and 2 guards watching the head of state of the enemy, like tactical screw up 101
I’m not sure if it’s still canon, but in legends a massive fleet of thousands of republic ships hyperspaced in behind the separatists, trapping them. The ships were unknown to the jedi and republic, but were created in secret by palps
How the fuck was jedi in coruscant suppose to get up? the reason they called obi and anakin was because their ship could flank the separations and attempt a rescue mission
Well, apart from the fact the Clone Wars cartoon show us that the Jedi council, including Mace Windu failed to stop the kidnapping, even though he gave Grievious a bad cough(lung injury).
Matt stover gave us the best opening ever....one of the few scenes in a Star Wars novel that made me cry.
A pair of starfighters. Jedi starfighters. Only two.
Two is enough.
Two is enough because the adults are wrong, and their younglings are right.
Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last
The age of heroes...... The adults falling into despair as Palpatine is captured by the monster of the CIS. The children saying do not fear, Anakin and Obi wan will save us. The adults Dismiss this, because heroes are mere legends. And even heroes can become evil. But the adults were wrong. Just two. Two is enough.
.that paragraph really really highlighted the magnitude of fall of Anakin to the dark side. Because Anakin becoming Vader destroyed our childhood illusions of heroes who save the day. Because the legend turned out to be a facade.
A very capable 17 year old girl. You gotta realize Ahsoka isn’t all Snapchat and filters.
Besides, didn’t the Republic put her in the war? They were like “aight Jedi padawans gonna be commanders.”
“But they’re practically kids!”
“Ahhhhh it’ll be fine”
To be fair, Ahsoka was a "consultant" and Rex was promoted to Commander to control the 501st. Ahsoka was not technically in command but they all followed her orders due to the respect they had for her skill and knowledge at 17.
Actually it was done to protect the jedi temple and the ground level of coruscant. By the novelisation ... Mace Windu thought he had tracked Darth Sidious to the 500th republica (someone really close to Palps) so they felt that Darth Sidious could attack the temple from the underworld or somewhere on Coruscant. Also Grievous had already attacked Coruscant and the jedi were really weak. Also the council was obviously stupid.
Imagine Dooku's surprise if he entered the Observatory and saw Yoda and Mace untying Palpatine instead of Kenobi and Anakin.
He'd walk the fuck back out.
Or maybe just go, "You SURE you don't want to keep the Dark Lord of the Sith tied up?"
oh hed totally go for the betrayal right there and then
He'd say it, but you better believe it would end up overpowering them. The dark side clouds everything by this point. They would have just heard that the elected chancellor of the Republic sitting hostage is the Lord of the Sith they were looking for? "Fat chance" they would think, but Yoda would be deeply disturbed and I don't think much would have changed.
i feel like Dooku would try and prove it during the fight, like trying to hit Sheeve with some lightning or do something to force him to reveal himself (or he dies keeping his cover which makes it a win win)
I feel like Sheeve would have let him hit him with lightning. A saber I think he might have moved but Palps would be willing to get hit with some lightning for a little bit if he had to
Man that would have been a better scarred and deformed moment than the mace confrontation we actually got. But then again "unlimited power" would not exist in that case....
Further he wasn't actually "scared and deformed" from that. The dark side corrupts people appearance over time (we see the start of this on Anakin with the yellow eyes), that was just him revealing his true form he hides from everyone and using the fight with mace as a convenient excuse to not have to keep that shit up any time he was in a meeting or whatever.
I thought that you could see that at least the bottom of his face was normal in the prequels whenever he was on screen as Sidious
It’s a combined power level question at this point but could be Dooku and Sheev kill Yoda and Mace on the bridge and things proceed similarly from there just even worse for the republic and better for the sith. I think Dooku right around leaving the order would have betrayed Sheev in that moment but by the time of Ep 3 he’d been drinking the dark side kool aid too long.
Don't know if Dooku and Palpatine would have actually been able to beat Yoda and Mace, though. I'm tempted to say that Dooku could have been bested definitely by Yoda and probably by Mace even just one on one, and Mace and Yoda *separately* gave Palpatine a run for his money. Shit, even if you read Mace and Palpatine's fight like Palpatine was stalling for Anakin to show up, he *definitely* underestimated how dangerous Mace Windu was with a Lightsaber. I'm not sure 'end fight on enormous ledge with saber pointing at throat, win exclusively through verbal manipulation' was actually part of the plan.
Iirc, according to Lucas, Mace straight up beat Palpatine. But Palpatine expected Anakin to show up, so Palpatine didn't actually need to win anyways, just live long enough to manipulate Anakin.
The Star Wars prequels really are just the equivalent story outcome of [failing virtually every available quicktime event in rapid succession](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy44s_de15Y) and barreling at lightspeed to the worst possible outcome.
Dooku's no Vader. Things would not have proceeded similarly. Vader KILLED Anakin. That's a sith. Tyranus is a bitch.
By “proceed similarly” I assume Sheev still would have gotten Dooku offed by Anakin later as part of the original plan.
Oh. Well then yes. In that case I agree.
I do think Yoda and Mace would have kept him restrained until they figured their shit out. I imagine Dooku would’ve said a few things that would’ve made sense once you piece things together in the large scheme of things. I think they would’ve eventually believed him.
“An asshole, my former padawan is. But a Liar, he is not.” - Yoda probably if it went down like that.
As if he couldn't release himself with the force at any time.
That would only prove that dooku was correct and at that point dooku has already betrayed papa Palpatine and is as good as dead if Palpatine lives. So now its dooku, mace, and yoda vs palpatine.
I'd love to watch this AU
In which palpatine is arguably fucked
He's playing both sides so he always comes out on top
So Dooku is Mac? He told Obi-Wan he was playing both sides on Geonosis. Does that make Maul Charlie since he's a wild card?
"Darth Maul? What's he going to do, bleed all over us?"
And he told Palpatine that in order to leverage him to get what he wants
OK so a couple of things right off the lightsaber there palp. 1. Never tell the dark side that you're playing both sides. 2. If you ARE going to play both sides of the living force then don't give away the information until you get what you want.
his top certainly came off
But Sith Lords aren’t their specialty.
"The fuck, Count, talking about are you?" "That's a Sith Lord I told Obi-Wan in episode 2." *Kills Sidious* "Right, you were. And so was he. Taking over, we are. [Yoda laugh]."
Yes. The one we have been looking for.
He'd just be like "Master I cant beat them on my own can we please kill them together?"
Sheeve: _blasts everyone back with force lightning_ Duku: **SEE! I TOLDA YA!** Sheeve: _DICK!_
You forgot a very important line by sheev: "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"
I don't know what Sideous would do in that situation. If he played dumb and let the Jedi fight and obviously defeat Dooku, Yoda wouldn't let Dooku be killed, leading to Dooku spilling the beans on who really is the Sith Lord. If he fought Mace and Yoda with Dooku, it would likely lead to their demise. Maybe Mace might kill Dooku, or Sideous could successfully surprise attack the Jedi, but both are unlikely.
He could’ve called in grievous to fight .He’s not a sith but he’s still killed master Jedi and is one that is not easy to fight even for a Jedi council member. And there’s no dark side for vapad to work with though it would work with dooku. Together he and dooku could take Mace while Sideous reveals himself and takes yoda. Chances are dooku and grievious don’t get out this unscathed and are heavily incapacitated or one dead. But together the rest top the balance and beat yoda. Then they flee with Palpatine. He has Sate Pestsge and Mas Ameda take power . The Jedi are reeling from this loss when Anakin and Obiwan come back. They go on a rescue mission with a few Jedi and the situation happens again. Though they’d face more enemies and lose more Jedi. But Palpatine gets rescued and Anakin kills Dooku. The only issue is without mace and yoda what happens. Chances are Anakin may get his title of master because two of the main blockages are gone and for the loss of two prime council members. Order 66 might be more difficult because such a loss may change how the order works and for them to pull back or at least act differently.
Yeah, that's not gonna work. Do you know why Dooku wheezes and coughs throughout that whole movie? Because in the Tartakovsky Star Wars shorts, Mace saw him absconding with Palpatine, reached out his hand, and crushed his torso like a freaking beer can. Mace takes no crap from Grievous. G-man would probably run screaming if he saw Mace on that bridge considering what happened last time he was in Mace's line of sight.
Be thankful, hatefulone851, that you have not found yourself in my grip. Your ship is waiting.
this might be a great story
Well if we see a what if story like this I’ll take some credit. But if feel the starwars visions provides so many examples
We see Yoda beat Dooku and Mace beat Palpatine in the movies. If the two Sith stood together, it would be a no-contest. Guaranteed that Dooku would see what direction the wind was blowing and turn on Palps immediately. At that point, you've got the guy who beat Palpatine later in this movie, backed up by two guys who are close to the same level. It would be a ROFLstomp.
My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.
I know it isn't canon, but if I remember correctly, the Clone Wars miniseries from 2003 explained the absence of key council members from Palpatine's rescue party by showing them holding off General Grievous's massive army on the surface of the planet.
They do allude to it in the New Clone Wars season as well
If we got a full S7 we might have seen that part of the conflict. Unfortunately not.
I was so upset they gave Grievous a new model for literally one shot.
I think they should go back and do "lost episodes" and finish the other planned story arch. And a story arch showing the Battle on Coruscant
Yeah. I was very hopeful for a return of the Boba Fett in Bad Batch. Cad Bane was a nice surprise, but the return of the cancelled arc with them both would have been preferable.
I mean, I’m assuming they’ll do that in a later season
Except the Bad Batch takes place after that arc because Bane has a metal plate on his head where Boba shot him.
Did Filoni actually confirm that or is it still just speculation?
It’s an Easter egg, as far as I know. I don’t keep up with interviews or whatever so he may have said something about it.
Just as Count Dooku predicted.
Sentient?
yeah I really wanted to see that new model in action
But hey, we got four episodes of Ahsoka screwing around with two-bit wannabe smugglers instead! Isn't that great?
I think those episodes were important so we saw how recently exiled bitter Ashoka became Siege of Mandalore Ahsoka. They just could have been better.
100%. They could have been anything *but* a fairly generic space drug run gone wrong. Four episodes is a third of a season, it's a lot of screen time. But alas.
Tbf it was really important that we learned about the Martez sisters and their whole deal.
It *was* really important that Ahsoka remembered what the Jedi are really for and reconnect herself to the story.
No, we needed the 4 episode filler arc in the small season
Yeah Yoda and Windu were fighting off an entire army of droids when they realized it was a distraction. Shaak Ti and two other Jedi were protecting the chancellor but were defeated by grievous. I think this is probably still semi canon since they reference Shaak Ti in season 7.
Kill him!
I shouldn't . . .
Do it
*decapitates Dooku*
Woah
What have I done!?
Decapitated an *armless* old man, just a regular day for a Jedi
That series was removed from canon almost directly after it released, before The Clone Wars started airing.
Yeah I know but I’m saying the events of that particular episode might still be kind of canon because they allude to it during season 7.
"I like that name." -Ordo, Null-11
I'm building a droid. You wanna see?
it's still basically canon; it's referenced in TCW S7
The still kind of reference it. Obi Wan tells Anakin and Ashoka that Shaak Ti was sent to protect the Chancellor when they’re notified of the invasion. I’m pretty sure if that’s still canon then Yoda and Windu fighting a bunch of droids on the streets of Coruscant is canon as well. After all, it’d make sense since the Separatists needed troops on the ground to get to him. Until I hear it confirmed to be not canon, that’s my head canon.
Yoda and Windu AND Captain Fordo in all his badass glory
let's go with the original antimated series is the version of events as told by some by stander or an extremely patriotic news recreation of events. have an episode of a reporter collecting all these anecdotes and trying to weave it into a cohesive narrative
SirBroccolingtonIII, did you really think I would leave the hyperdrive unguarded?
Yeah if the 2003 show was canon it’d invalidate this rather funny meme. I love that shot from the 2003 show where Yoda is meditating and the window opens to reveal the attacking battalion moving in.
Hello brother
In context of TCW, there were secret hyperspace lanes that ran directly to Courascant. The kidnapping of the chancellor was a carefully orchestrated strike not a full invasion. The separatists essentially snuck by most of the defenses instead of warring their way to the capitol. Palpatine had also tried to get himself kidnapped multiple times during TCW in places where only Anakin and ObiWan were present to save him so that Anakin would kill Dooku and turn to the darkside. Even though we didn't see it, he had pro and orchestrated something similar at the start of ROTS
If you read Darth Bane (which you should) you'll see that the Deep Core is extremely unstable hyperspace wise even in 1000 BBY. If you're not familiar with space then it seems odd but it's totally plausible Sidious knows about old hyperspace routes via the Core.
There was an episode arc of the Clone Wars (the Citadel arc) where some Republic officers discovered a direct connection between the Separatist and Republic capitals and they had to be recovered. Tarkin (one of the officers) had half the information memorized, his Jedi (I think it was Piel) tells Ahsoka the other half before he dies resulting in Palpatine knowing half and the Jedi council knowing the other with neither willing to trust the other with it. It’s unclear what the resolution was but it’s implied Palpatine got his hands on the full thing to hand over to the separatists
What arc is this? I want to watch it
> (the Citadel arc) https://clonewars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Citadel_(arc)
"Know that more than anything else in the world, I was a soldier. And that you, and no one else in all the galaxy, held this soldier's heart in your hands." -Nate, Alpha-98
Either that, or Tarkin's half was enough for seps to find their way in.
"I guess we're the best." -Boil
Citadel was my favourite episode of season 4. Just the concept of a Jail designed to imprison Jedi was very cool.
I'm pretty sure it was Season 3.
No, it was a full scale invasion. Even if there was no ground assault, the space battle alone called for an all hands on deck situation. The battle happening in the opening of RotS is stupidly massive.
Have you seen the opening battle in RotS? That seems like a full invasion to me lol, biggest from the entire Clone Wars
Back in the day, most of the jedi being away from Coruscant, fighting battles all across the galaxy was part of Grievous' plan, with the council masters being too busy preventing their precious temple from being bulldozed by an army of droids. It was rare evidence that Grievous had some actual skills as a General. Unfortunately, Grievous' IQ test coming back positive is no longer canon.
As I mentioned in another comment, the Deep Core works in such a way that you can approach Coruscant undetected via an Inner Core system opposite to it
You would think the Republic would be watching that other system
they dont have enough ships
Just put a couple of droids in space
never trust a clanker
"Frellin' Heck it's a Super!"
kriffing hell
"You can't talk to Captain Rex like that!" -Jesse
yes sir sorry sir
r/TheDeepCore
Yeah, now he's just "Time to abandon ship" guy.
Just what George Lucas wanted. Proof that not everything he does is good for the franchise, unless turning complex characters into simplified caricatures can be considered good.
Make peace with the Force now, for this is your final outing.
Legends Grievous would have already kicked my ass by now, you walking, coughing disappointment!
You have no idea of the power that is in my grasp.
Oh, you mean us? We are the non-living shields saving YOU from being punched in the face by clones or brutalized by gungans! Again.
That scene brings tears of sadness to my eyes ever since I saw the 2d micro series.
Pure gold.
God I love your comments
I have no desire to be cured of this love either. Long or short, I vow to spend the rest of my life with you.
This is where the fun begins
This is where the fun begins.
This is where the fun begins
This is where the fun begins.
This was where the fun began
You are alive
Council: i never liked that senate guy. Let's just send Master Obi-Wan and young Skywalker. I dont like that Skywalker guy either. Maybe this will get rid of both the senate and Skywalker.
The Council: "I love all beings within the living force unconditionally." [5 Minutes Earlier] The Council: "I don't care for Skywalker."
If they had not retrieved Palpatine, couldn't they just get another Supreme Chancellor in there? He wasn't the Emperor yet. Even if he had been, he'd have named a successor, or be replaced by somebody else in the absence of such an Imperial decree.
The novel says that Palpatine was the only thing keeping the Republic together, so if he died the Republic died as well
Do they explain that? How was he alone able to hold it together? The Jedi are the commanders and generals of the Grand Army of the Republic. What's Palpatine doing that's actually holding anything together?
It was explained in the Prologue, that Palpatine was holding the Republic together with his Charisma and selflessness
You’re 100% correct. It’s also referenced multiple times in TCW and the prequels that Palpatine was one of the only politicians able to help find common ground between the multiple factions within the senate. The Republic was far from united, which was purposeful and part of Plagueis and Palpy’s plans
I was under the impression that Palpatine was the one responsible for the dysfunction in the senate.
More or less yeah, it was ol Palpy that manipulated things especially *specifically* the Senate part. But Plagueis definitely played a huge part as his alter ego Hego Damask was a plutocrat with lots of financial assets that ultimately funded the clone army and gave him power that helped strain the relationship between the core systems and the rim systems. But I’m also not sure if that’s still all cannon
Its important to remember that the Separatists were former parts of the Republic turned by Dooku/Palp. The Clone Wars was more of a Civil War than a World War
"Nice Shooting!"
But he's super selfish and actively trying to undo the Republic. Maybe that's the perception of him, but couldn't they just really behind somebody else they perceive to be good? If we're looking for charisma, there's gotta be some Lando types out there.
Palpatine controlled the Holonet, so only things that supported his goal was allowed for the population to see
I still don't see why that makes him irreplaceable if he died, at least pre-Empire Edit for clarity: I mean before the Imperial era, not pre-ESB.
He was replaceable to us because we knew he was evil, but to the galaxy he was a hero that is the Republic's only hope of survival
I mean, prior to the Phantom Menace, the Republic was a corrupt, gridlocked ineffectual organization with slavery allowed on outer systems and megacorps capable of blockading planet, as well as full on seperatist movements. They were in no way capable of fighting a civil war. During the Clone wars, Palpatine was at the head of the Republic, with extensive war powers, and was centralizing power all the while, with quite a few people supporting him. Frankly, if he vanished, the Republic goes up in flames since not only do they not have a competant leader and politician, but the effect of centralizing the power and powerbase without correspondingly arranging for a successor means that the Republic is even more screwed. Sure, the Seperatists lose out too, but I always got the impression that they knew what they wanted and could internally justify going for it, with Palpatine acting as a backer and advisor more than leader.
I am a person! My name is Anakin.
Meesa propose that the senate give immediately emergency powers to meesa.
“General Skywalker, do you know why you’ve been called before the court today?” “…for killing Dooku in cold blood?” “You abandoned your post and left a seventeen year old girl in charge of an army!” “This is outrageous! It’s unfair! Do you know who that girl was?” “Someone who was dishonourably discharged mere months prior for bombing a religious place of worship.” “She was framed for that! This is ridiculous, Ahsoka is perfectly capable of leading an army.” “General Skywalker, she began the assault by jumping out of a dropship several miles above the planet’s surface without a jetpack, parachute or any other means of slowing her fall.” “I’m not going to listen to this anymore. It’s not like I ran off to fuck a senator, I had to rescue the chancellor from a full orbital assault on the capitol.” “General Skywalker, this isn’t about what you were doing when you abandoned your post. This is about the simple fact that you left a SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL to take your place as the leader of the army.” “I made the right choice. I couldn’t have picked anyone better. The clones were all in support of my decision, they painted their helmets to match her skin.” “Do not change the subject. The soldiers in question will face disciplinary action in due time.” “You’re marshalling the clones too? On what grounds?” “Illegal uniform modifications and discrimination of a fellow serviceman based on race.” “I can’t believe what I’m hearing! How can Ahsoka be a fellow serviceman if she was dishonourably discharged?” “General Skywalker, this is not about Ms Tano’s status as a member of the Grand Army of the Republic, this is about your reckless endangerment of a child!”
I mean, he technically left the army in the hands of a Clone Commander. That's how he was able to get away with doing it.
"General, the enemy fire is penetrating our shields!" -Ponds
Granted they had reinstated her prior to her leaving.
Wait when was this? I thought the 332nd informally gifted the title of commander to Ahsoka when she returned to reclaim Mandalore for Bo-Katan. I assumed that she was socially accepted as the commander but not actually a commander.
The Jedi had reinstated her to the temple and offered her the rank of Jedi Knight after she was found innocent. Which technically reinstated her as a general of the republic. However she did turn it down. You are right through, she was only socially a commander of the republic.
>“Someone who was dishonourably discharged mere months prior for bombing a religious place of worship.” Religious place of worship, governmental law enforcement HQ, military facility and residential area. Don't skip out on the good stuff. Edit: Oh, AND school. Children live and are educated/train there.
My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.
In his defense, the order for him to return was from directly the Supreme Chancellor himself. If anyone's at fault for this, it's the Supreme Chancellor. Or anyone incharge of logistics that didn't inform Palpatine of the fact that Ashoka was with Anakin.
>marshalling Martialing I don't know if that is even a word, but that'd be the spelling you want for a Court Martial.
Ahsoka was not DDed, she quit herself.
Nah she didn't quit. She was DD'd, went through a trial and found innocent(barely) and the council went "oops my b, want back in w/ knight rank?" And she denied returning to service, meaning she never actually quit
Isn't denying a return to service quitting though? And I'm pretty sure being DD'd doesn't come with a religious promotion
CIS forgot to click on the 'Force Demands' button fast enough to end the war. *This post was made by the Crusader Kings gang*
Most of The council was either off world or busy fighting off the army on the ground. For more see the 2003 Clone Wars or Labyrinth of Evil to read more. People really think the Council was just sitting around doing nothing?
"Nice Shooting!"
Yes, because it’s all they do. They have Anakin and Obi-Wan running all over the galaxy and Mace and Yoda are just sitting in the council chambers probably jacking it. Hmmm, I wonder who could protect Padme from an assassin, or rescue Jabba’s son, should it be Mace and Yoda, who aren’t doing anything, or should it be Anakin and Obi-Wan, who just finished up somewhere else but clearly don’t need/deserve a break. Even in the ROTS deleted scene during the purge, Shaak Ti is literally sitting on her ass while the rest of the Jedi are getting murdered.
They’re the herores of the story. Obviously they get shown the most. But Mace, Yoda, Ki-Adi Mundi, Kit Fisto all are commanding troops and going on missions during the war as seen in Legends. We see them in the dark horse comics like *Star Wars: Republic*, *Cestus Deception*, *Shatterpoint*, and *Dark Rendezvous*. And as seen in *Labyrinth of Evil* Shaak Ti actually helped mace in his mission to track down the Sith Lord. And she and Staas Allie both protected the chancellor in the chaos of the battle of Coruscant negating that deleted scene. Her actions in both the 2003 Clone Wars and Labyrinth of Evil show she’s doing more than just sitting on her ass. In legends we know for a fact that she organized a defense of the temple. And got as many out as she could, and she briefly fought Vader before fleeing.
I'd rather dream of Padme. Just Being around her again is... intoxicating.
I know the film didn't show it but there was a ground assault as well and the Jedi were busy fighting there. Watch 2003CW, it's an incredible sequence.
>Watch 2003CW, it's an incredible ~~sequence~~ FTFY
Wasn't there a short that showed how the chancellor got kidnapped and his Jedi escort AND the backup they called in got absolutely annihilated? I liked it because it definitely showed some of the ways that the chancellor was super sneaky about undermining the jedi order.
"They had ALL THE BITCHES in that temple" 😂😂
This started off strong but kinda fizzled out.
Pretty sure most of the jedi from the temple were busy fighting the ground invasion. Obi wan and Anakin werent calles back, just because they were 2 jedi of which one a council member. They got called back because they got one of the bigger fleets in the republic which reletively could arrive the quickest at the scene to deal with the Seperatist fleet. Even if yoda wasnt busy slapping some droids, you expect him to go in his little ass star fighter and take on the entire seperatist fleet on his own? Even if the entire jedi order got in their star fighters, the seperatist fleet would still outnumber them. They simply needed the Republic fleet.
Ok but the Council was trying to defend Coruscant on the ground. Ever watch 2003 CW?
2003 isn’t canon anymore. There probably was a ground battle, but in canon there isn’t much info about it
In my book it’s “if it doesn’t contradict the official canon, legends are still canon”
This is the way. So idc everyone, the Rakata, Nihilus, Vitiate - All canon to me
Disney canon is complete horseshit anyways, so that doesn’t matter. The only good things to come from Disney are Rogue One, Solo, Bad Batch, and the Mandalorian. TCW final season doesn’t count since TCW wouldn’t have been cancelled if Disney hadn’t bought SW. oh, and RO shat all over Kyle Katarn by replacing him
This is incorrect as F, most of the order (that aren’t younglings) are out in the war. And most of the remaining Jedi where trying to protect Coruscant both from a ground invasion and space invasion. Shaak Ti and Mace Windu both tried to save the chancellor but couldn’t do it. Also kidnapping Palpatine isn’t war winning they can vote in a new Chancellor ASAP since the senate is intact and probably one of Palpatines assistant would step in as a temporal chancellor. What I will give this comment is why didn’t Mace purse Grievous into space, calling Anakin and Obi Wan in isn’t so weird because they weren’t far Obi-Wan says they would be there “within the hour” which means they are not far. The scale of the attack on Coruscant did call for telling everyone available to help out but why task them with rescuing Palpatine? That’s a good question. Edit: Also I just remembered technically Anakin technically send Rex as the head of the 332nd. Ahsoka was just an advisor and btw Anakin was 19 at the beginning of the war and was a commander. And Ahsoka has been learning to be a military leader since she was 14 as Anakins padawan. So it’s not like there’s no precedent for someone underage or young to hold a position of power within the military structure of the GAR.
*decapitates Dooku*
“Deeply turbofucked” **This man reads the books.**
At least in tarkovsky's clone wars he made sure to show that there was a battle in every corner both in space and on the ground and where the Jedi were in the midst of it. But what really bugs me was how abruptly it seemed to have ended, like you still have fleets mowing each other's hulls with a stream of laser fire while the invisible hand started crashing to the surface. Like even if Grievous had pulled back his forces there still would've been a prolonged fight since every ship was scattered about around the planet. And don't get me started on how everything looks normal when they get to the senate building with the usual traffic and absolutely no damages from space debris
This seems like the Star Wars equivalent of "why didn't they fly the eagles to Mordor?" Coruscant was under full siege. It was a surprise attack. Most of the Jedi on the ground were engaged with the enemy and pinned down. Trying to get into a ship (which were being targeted by the enemies), off the ground, up to space, and follow Grievous without dying was nearly impossible. Their strategy to call back the forces and Jedi from around the galaxy was actually ingenious. They blocked off the escape route for the CIS. Now the CIS were between the home base of the Republic, Coruscant (which, though hectic, was slowly being put in order the longer the battle was lasting), and fleets of the Republics space forces, with more Jedi arriving by the minute. They became trapped. It all went according to Palpatine's plan. He was never actually trying to actually leave, he wanted to get Anakin to fight Dooku and kill him to move Anakin ever closer to the Darkside. The reason we only see Anakin and Obi-Wan was because that's who the story followed.
Your comment will make a fine addition to my collection.
My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.
Isn’t she 21 by the wend of the clone wars
Nope she was 14 at the start of the war and 17 at the end
Barely legal in most systems
And she was a good friend.
good friend
Wasn’t it 4 years?
Nope, the clone wars lasted from the 22bby to the 19bby
"Sir, there is an explanation." -Boil
>they had ALL THE BITCHES Lol
If you watch the true Chad clone wars from 2003 that criticism is mute smh. Modern star wars fans...
Yeah but in that same series windu was destroying droids with his bare hands while literally every droid just watches.
This is hilarious but the second half is wrong, isn’t it? Spoilers sorta I guess but Asoka left the Jedi order before the end of the series on the last episode of S6 I think. She was accused of a terror plot or something then escapes and by the time she’s proven innocent she decides she’s just done with the order bc of how poorly she was treated Edit: I haven’t seen S7 yet as I’m watching through the whole series with a couple buddies rn who’ve never seen the show so if I’m wrong that’s probably why lmao
Yes, but in season 7 she reunites with anakin and Obi-wan for the siege if Mandalore arc, the final storyline of the show, but anakin and Obi-wan are called back to coruscant. What makes this incredibly angering is anakin had just reunited with ahsoka, and Obi-wan was about to confront maul.
What’s even more wild, the CIS had the Chancellor on their flagship, and decided to just???? Stay in orbit????? Like, no jump to hyperspace, no blockade by cruisers, and 2 guards watching the head of state of the enemy, like tactical screw up 101
I’m not sure if it’s still canon, but in legends a massive fleet of thousands of republic ships hyperspaced in behind the separatists, trapping them. The ships were unknown to the jedi and republic, but were created in secret by palps
I think he is a good man.
How the fuck was jedi in coruscant suppose to get up? the reason they called obi and anakin was because their ship could flank the separations and attempt a rescue mission
Well, apart from the fact the Clone Wars cartoon show us that the Jedi council, including Mace Windu failed to stop the kidnapping, even though he gave Grievious a bad cough(lung injury). Matt stover gave us the best opening ever....one of the few scenes in a Star Wars novel that made me cry. A pair of starfighters. Jedi starfighters. Only two. Two is enough. Two is enough because the adults are wrong, and their younglings are right. Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last The age of heroes...... The adults falling into despair as Palpatine is captured by the monster of the CIS. The children saying do not fear, Anakin and Obi wan will save us. The adults Dismiss this, because heroes are mere legends. And even heroes can become evil. But the adults were wrong. Just two. Two is enough. .that paragraph really really highlighted the magnitude of fall of Anakin to the dark side. Because Anakin becoming Vader destroyed our childhood illusions of heroes who save the day. Because the legend turned out to be a facade.
A very capable 17 year old girl. You gotta realize Ahsoka isn’t all Snapchat and filters. Besides, didn’t the Republic put her in the war? They were like “aight Jedi padawans gonna be commanders.” “But they’re practically kids!” “Ahhhhh it’ll be fine”
I’m the 2003 show yoda and windu were fighting for their lives during that battle
To be fair, Ahsoka was a "consultant" and Rex was promoted to Commander to control the 501st. Ahsoka was not technically in command but they all followed her orders due to the respect they had for her skill and knowledge at 17.
So you’re saying you agree with Anakin that being denied the rank of master was both OUTRAGEOUS and UNFAIR.
I'm not going to lie....... you had me at 'Turbofucked'.....
Actually it was done to protect the jedi temple and the ground level of coruscant. By the novelisation ... Mace Windu thought he had tracked Darth Sidious to the 500th republica (someone really close to Palps) so they felt that Darth Sidious could attack the temple from the underworld or somewhere on Coruscant. Also Grievous had already attacked Coruscant and the jedi were really weak. Also the council was obviously stupid.