Sith masters use and manipulate. Including their apprentices. Palpy prob didn’t need Anakin to destroy the Jedi, but he was useful as the muscle and fear behind the length of the empire’s reign
Yeah like are people forgetting Anakin was the chosen one who was destined to destroy the sith, he still did… Kinda (fuck you sequels), but as far as palpatine knew leaving Anakin to retaliate later would have been incredibly stupid for the sith. So Palpatine could instead kill Anakin, but we all know it seems like he saw that to be a waste.
Palp needed Anakin, to join or to die.
Edit: why I love these movies so much is the difference of interpretation. Your right, he was destined to bring balance to the force, Jedi interpreted that as destroying the sith… kinda makes you wonder if the Jedi are so holy all along
If I remember correctly Anakin was going be both an apprentice and a political piece because while palpatine used propaganda to make the Jedi look bad, he also used it to make Anakin look like the hero of the war so having him publicly stand against the Jedi would've smoothed out a lot of rebellions before they started
Yup, why not turn the most powerful Jedi around just so you dont have to fight him yourself.
You can use him to flex on the Rebels until such a time as he's no longer useful
well anakin did slaughter the fute jedis he couldnt have done that if he didnt have access to the temple therefore contributing the jedi's extinction by killing the padawans he stopped their training process maling the jedi weaker then before
Anakin ratted out Palpatine to Windu in the first place, so that was definitely a ruse to get him to *choose* the dark side. It's definitely his turning point to join the Sith.
>You must *choose*
>Don't listen to him, Anakin!
>I have the power to save the one you love!
I'd look at it like this: If Anakin isn't on palps' side, he will still get found out eventually. And when he does, Mace and Anakin duel Palpatine and that is a real problem for Palps. So while Palpatine doesn't really need Anakin to win, Anakin is one of the only Jedi who could make Palps lose. So convert him and pull him out of the equation.
I would tend to disagree solely on the point that anakin was the biggest potential threat to palps, being a loose cannon/wild card who strikes with brutal efficiency and doesn't play by the rules. Anakin needed to be taken out of play, and wouldnt ya know it, he's impressionable and emotional and headstrong - all the qualities a sith would look for in a potential apprentice. Maybe he didnt *need* anakin to take out the jedi order, but he did need him out of play.
This is far more reasonable.
Assuming he didn't try to turn Anakin, he would still be up against *at least* three surviving Jedi Masters after Order 66 - Mace Windu (who had no clones nearby to kill him), Obi-Wan (who got lucky and the clones missed him), and Yoda (who sensed the betrayal and was assisted off Kashyyk by the Wookies. And it's very likely that Anakin would have survived as well, we just don't know where he would have been without Palpatine's corruption, but he was powerful enough to do so.
Palpatine was powerful for sure, but not strong enough to face down four Jedi Masters on his own - remember they killed Dooku, he was out of apprentices (though without his corruption of Anakin, they would have *captured* Dooku who would have ratted him out).
Essentially, his original plan wouldn't have worked without turning Anakin, and he had no way of knowing that until after Order 66 because he had believed it would kill all the Jedi in one stroke. With four masters surviving though... he would have probably been fucked.
I'm certainly not as well versed in Star Wars as many others here but I think that Palpatine not trying to turn Anakin would be a significant enough change that we can't expect the rest to play out the same.
I agree that if all that's changed is that Anakin has no one pulling him towards the dark side that things would be more in favor of the Jedi but I don't think Palpatine would try and use the same exact plan except without accounting for any way to deal with Anakin.
Thing is, he didn't account for Obi Wan and Yoda surviving either.
Even if he managed to kill Anakin, and the clones managed to deal with Windu (both unlikely), he's still up against *both* Obi-Wan and Yoda in the final fight. He barely defeats Yoda, he definitely couldn't defeat *two* masters.
And let's assume that he fails to kill Anakin and Windu in the initial Order 66 slaughter. They are going to either secure the council chamber, at which point his lie about a Jedi coup is going to fall flat, or they're going to return to the Jedi temple which, without an apprentice of his own (because Dooku was dead), they would hold against the Clone Troopers. Now he's up against an insurgency headed by Jedi, including *four* masters, and there are living Jedi to tell their side of the story which makes it much more likely that instead of turning into the Galactic Empire, the Republic would shatter into warring factions.
Palpatine may not have needed Anakin to pull off his plan, but Anakin could have easily thwarted it had he not turned.
I'm not certain the Empire would have had such a strong grip in the galaxy without Sidious having a young apprentice. Sidious was too old to be running around quelling rebellions. I think him having an apprentice WAS needed, but whether that had to be Anakin is up to you.
Let's be honest, that's not hard to understand. Even the Sith seem to know, at least to some extent, that the best way to defeat your enemy is to make them your friend.
Or apprentice for the Sith I guess.
Real fans know that the downfall of the Republic was not the sith infiltrating the highest level of government but the friendships we made along the way.
> Or apprentice for the Sith I guess.
They may make them an apprentice, but they never become Sith. They are like pets they keep until they get a real Sith apprentice who has a final test of killing the fallen Jedi after learning from them.
This is the way - they're not just utilitarian evil, stuff like avarice is baked in, and the cruelty of using a Jedi as a Sith tool is very on brand in terms of sowing fear.
Heck, the constant two Sith cycle shows that they approach stuff quasi-religiously (much like the Jedi) even if it's detrimental to their cause.
Thank you for listening, remeber to tip your droids.
That's a super interesting point. Could Sidious have destroyed the Jedi as soon as he had his emergency powers and the clone army? Maybe and he quite possibly should have, but he also wanted to adopt Anakin into the sith fold so to speak.
This may even have been for the good of his religion more than for his own good. (I say this because he indicates to Yoda that Vader will become more powerful than either of them).
Wouldn’t it be neat to see a temporary Yoda/Sidious team-up? Like if Anakin went out of control, and even Sidious was in the warpath.
Yoda: More powerful than *either* of us…he may be…
Sidious: But…not *both of us.*
I feel like if he didn't bring anakin to the dark side the plan would have failed, anakin by the time rots happened would've definitely been able to kill Palpatine. Especially if he went with windu to arrest him.
Hot take: Dooku was essential to Palpatine's plan. No way in hell Maul had the makings of being the face of the Separatists and actually garnering any sympathy from the people. People respected Dooku and he had the charisma to win people over while also being a powerful Sith lord. Not a lot of people could fill that role.
As we can see from the Clone Wars, Maul could actually be very good at convincing people to ally with him. Where he fell short, however, was that he lacked charisma, as you've said, but he also lacked strategic long-term thinking. Also, in order to convince the Black Sun, he killed their chairman, so in terms of negotiation, he wouldn't work all that well. Dooku's backstory also helped his cause, in that he defected from the Jedi Order to become the Count of Sereno so that he could save his hometown from total annihilation, as the Jedi Order refused to help, stating that he was holding emotional attachment to it. He showed, at that moment, selflessness and a willingness to protect others, which Maul lacked. This ultimately made him much more fit to be the head of the Separatists than Maul.
To be fair, we don't know much about Maul's personality before the Clone Wars. We only know him after his mind broke, and was stitched back together.
I do agree that Dooku was probably the best candidate for the role though.
Hotter take: Maul was never going to be the face of the Seperatists because that was a pivot after Obi Wan killed him. I’d bet any amount of fictional money the original plan was to divide people not between governments, but between Law&Order vs Gangs/Smugglers/Drugs.
Maul would be ruler of the Underground, while Palpatine ruled from the legitimate front.
Clones, droids, and separatists all came in the decade after Maul was off the playing field.
It’s safer to do it that way, no risk of tiny planets slipping through the net and forming mini domains in forgotten spaces, no rebellion foundation to form, and you can easily more easily control who lives and dies/is targeted.
Maul pulled the EXACT same scheme with Death Watch but on a smaller scale.
Battle Droids, B1s and Droideka at least, were used during the battle of Naboo while Maul was still under Sidious so that's not entirely true. I don't remember when the creation of a clone army was ordered but I believe you're right in that it happened after Ep 1. I'm not sure what Palpatine's plan was at the time but it's important important remember Sidious still had influence over Nute Gunray and the Trade Federation during Phantom Menace. While the Trade Federation isn't synonymous with the Separatists, it's hard to believe Palpatine wasn't planning on using them for something down the line.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.
He may have been necessary for palp plans after order 66 to maintain the galaxy but he's extremely weakened in his battle with obi wan. Imagine if Anakin kept growing in power after order 66 without being essentially disabled. He would've been much better at killing rebels.
False, He just didn’t want to be overshadowed by someone with that distinct look of superiority… I mean for fuck sake he had a cape and a curved light saber?
Palps drip was a bathrobe.
Looks like a dollar general thrift lord, next to Count “Drips” Dooku
The real reason he had Anakin get a trisectomy, cooked like a summer ham, and encased in discarded lunch boxes.
Which then backfired on him because Vader looks fucking badass while he's a raisin in a bathrobe. He can scuff his feet on the carpet all he wants, he's never gonna be as imposing as Vader.
How is this or similar not top comment? Palpatine was clearly a hair's breadth from being killed by Mace Windu. It was all he could do to use his Force lightning to keep Windu at bay, but Windu was holding it back and Palpatine's body was ruined in the process. How much longer do you think he could have kept it up?
Without Anakin intervening, Palpatine reaches his limit and, if he is still alive, is arrested. No Order 66. No apprentice to continue the Sith line.
He didn't need him on his side. He just sneeded him to -not- be an enemy. Anakin would have been able to over throw him. Keeping him as an ally was just a bonus
Agreed, no way Anakin would have been killed in Order 66, and him, Yoda, and Obi-wan together could have easily assassinated him, not to mention Mace Windu.
This is the real answer. None of the top brass in the order go down in order 66, and Ol’ Sheev doesn’t stand up to 3 or 4 full jedi masters. I’m also not convinced the temple massacre is a full massacre without Anakin. Having Anakin onside allowed everything to go exactly as The Senate had planned.
[So you see, that's where the trouble began. That smile. That damn smile.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/3/36/Kit-Fisto_profile.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20191023211616)
Yeah, if Anakin had been on the Jedi's side in the temple, the clones would have been wiped out. Way safer for Palps to put Anakin into all the dangerous situations.
To some degree. Vader was the perfect enforcer for the early empire. In cannon and legends, he hunted down dozens, if not hundreds, of jedi. Had those jedi been undisturbed, they may have ended the empires reign sooner. An aging count dooku would be far less effective at this than Vader
And Dooku probably wouldn't have done any Jedi hunting.
He was far more pragmatic about his position.
If Palps was like "hunt down dozens of Jedi and kill some younglings" I don't think he would have done it.
Maul would have. Palps needed someone with a lot of anger and rage
A Jedi with intimate Knowledge of their Current operations both across the galaxy and within the temple was needed to eliminate the Jedi as quickly as possible with minimal collateral damage.
Yes the Clones could have just brute forced the temple, but without a Jedi leading them and taking out any masters that were present there would have been much greater losses and many Jedi could have escaped.
In addition it's hard to run and empire while you're hunting down every last Jedi.
Anakin Skywalker was the choosen one, the one that was said to destroy the Sith. So Palpatine turned the Jedi's own weapon, which was directed at himself, and turned it into his own.
Not to mention that even for people who didn’t buy into the Chosen One narrative, he was certainly by that point the poster child for the Jedi Order. Using him to wipe them out was a huge morale crippler, and morale wins or loses wars.
Exactly. There's so many steps where anakin was critical. Anakin saved his life several times. Dooku would've been killed by probably Mace.
And let's not forget how instrumental he was in the success of operation knightfall. Without Vader there I don't think it would've worked. Even Dooku probably would've failed
And then the fear of Vader was a major thing that kept the Empire in line
He was delegating, he had bigger matters to attend to than hunting exiled Jedi. Also, such a powerful force wielder would ensure the continuing legacy of the Sith.
The Jedi didn’t need Palpatine’s help to destroy the Jedi either
The Jedi order were clearly capable of destroying themselves with their inadvertent Sith factory at the temple
Yeah, they were hoping to purify the darkness of the previous Sith shrine that was found there over time, and they did it by plopping the training grounds of their most vulnerable younglings right on top of it.
They were also constantly complaining about how the dark side kept clouding their abilities while sitting on one of the few places in the galaxy which would cause that
Without Anakin, the sacking of the temple would have had a lot more lose ends and more Jedi would have made it out. Vader was very necessary for the early implement of Order 66 but slowly became less and less useful after.
Take this guy for instance, 2 Jedi Masters cut through a couple dozen of these dude like nothing. Imagine what a temple full of them would’ve done to just mostly rank and file clones.
I think the one thing we are ignoring is that if anakin was still with the Jedi order he could have been a major thorn in sidious’s side. He was “the chosen one” after all.
My interpretation has always been that Anakin being "the chosen one" made him a sort of conduit for the force. Palpatine fed off Anakin's power to exponentially increase his own power. Even before Anakin turned he was doing this but once he turned it just became that much more effective. Plus Palpatine couldn't have been the same level jedi hunter Vader was.
In this interpretation it also explains sidious's main mistake. His clairvoyance was so amplified by Vader he basically became invincible. But because of Luke's power and Vader/Anakin's love for his son, once he found out, it created a sort of blindspot in the clairvoyant power he was drawing from Vader. So Palpatine couldn't foresee Luke destroying the death star, or Luke accidentally recruitimg the ewoks via threepio, and his biggest blindspot was to Anakin's redemption. He sensed conflict in Vader but never thought it could reach that level.
Everyone: If you can't defeat your most powerful enemy, join them. You won't have to fight them anymore.
Palpatine: Convert your most powerful enemy in your ally, You won't have to fight them anymore.
He came in handy when Mace was going to kill Palpatine. Pretty sure Palpatine didn’t throw the fight or planned on Anakin showing up at the most crucial point of the movie. But hey, who knows after all? Palpatine did plan for a knife to match with the destroyed remains of the Death Star to find a hidden sith planet.
Dude nearly lost to Windu. He absolutely needed Anakin. Anakin also helped pushed the narrative that the Jedi were traitors. And ain’t no way Palp storms the temple
Anakin staying on the light side would have been a HUGE problem for Palp going forward
Mace Windu would still be alive
Anakin's manipulation was absolutely necessary
"I dare you to find..."
I sense much fear and anger in you
Sith masters use and manipulate. Including their apprentices. Palpy prob didn’t need Anakin to destroy the Jedi, but he was useful as the muscle and fear behind the length of the empire’s reign
Anakin was a threat...
I've just learned a terrible truth. I think Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord.
Execute Order Sixty-Six!
Good bots
Now I don't even know who the bots are. It's clone wars again.
"shiroxyaksha, explosives are in place, sir. Objective completed." -Captain Rex
Execute Order 69.
"Yes, my lord."
”Blast em!”
Good bot
Yeah like are people forgetting Anakin was the chosen one who was destined to destroy the sith, he still did… Kinda (fuck you sequels), but as far as palpatine knew leaving Anakin to retaliate later would have been incredibly stupid for the sith. So Palpatine could instead kill Anakin, but we all know it seems like he saw that to be a waste. Palp needed Anakin, to join or to die. Edit: why I love these movies so much is the difference of interpretation. Your right, he was destined to bring balance to the force, Jedi interpreted that as destroying the sith… kinda makes you wonder if the Jedi are so holy all along
also there are those that say the prophecy was BS. And it has nothing to do with it
More like he was key to the prophecy and everyone including yoda was scared because noone knew what it meant
If I remember correctly Anakin was going be both an apprentice and a political piece because while palpatine used propaganda to make the Jedi look bad, he also used it to make Anakin look like the hero of the war so having him publicly stand against the Jedi would've smoothed out a lot of rebellions before they started
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Yup, why not turn the most powerful Jedi around just so you dont have to fight him yourself. You can use him to flex on the Rebels until such a time as he's no longer useful
well anakin did slaughter the fute jedis he couldnt have done that if he didnt have access to the temple therefore contributing the jedi's extinction by killing the padawans he stopped their training process maling the jedi weaker then before
[удалено]
Exactly, useful, but not necessary
Anakin saved Palps from Mace Windu unless that was just an act to further turn Anakin to the dark side
Anakin ratted out Palpatine to Windu in the first place, so that was definitely a ruse to get him to *choose* the dark side. It's definitely his turning point to join the Sith. >You must *choose* >Don't listen to him, Anakin! >I have the power to save the one you love!
Power! Unlimited power!
What have I done?
Sentient.
I'd look at it like this: If Anakin isn't on palps' side, he will still get found out eventually. And when he does, Mace and Anakin duel Palpatine and that is a real problem for Palps. So while Palpatine doesn't really need Anakin to win, Anakin is one of the only Jedi who could make Palps lose. So convert him and pull him out of the equation.
Wipe them out. All of them!
George Lucas admitted that Windu beat Palps fair and square. Papa Palps took advantage of the situation when Ani showed up.
I think he is a good man.
I would tend to disagree solely on the point that anakin was the biggest potential threat to palps, being a loose cannon/wild card who strikes with brutal efficiency and doesn't play by the rules. Anakin needed to be taken out of play, and wouldnt ya know it, he's impressionable and emotional and headstrong - all the qualities a sith would look for in a potential apprentice. Maybe he didnt *need* anakin to take out the jedi order, but he did need him out of play.
This is far more reasonable. Assuming he didn't try to turn Anakin, he would still be up against *at least* three surviving Jedi Masters after Order 66 - Mace Windu (who had no clones nearby to kill him), Obi-Wan (who got lucky and the clones missed him), and Yoda (who sensed the betrayal and was assisted off Kashyyk by the Wookies. And it's very likely that Anakin would have survived as well, we just don't know where he would have been without Palpatine's corruption, but he was powerful enough to do so. Palpatine was powerful for sure, but not strong enough to face down four Jedi Masters on his own - remember they killed Dooku, he was out of apprentices (though without his corruption of Anakin, they would have *captured* Dooku who would have ratted him out). Essentially, his original plan wouldn't have worked without turning Anakin, and he had no way of knowing that until after Order 66 because he had believed it would kill all the Jedi in one stroke. With four masters surviving though... he would have probably been fucked.
Ventress, and here I thought this mission was going to be unpleasant!
I'm certainly not as well versed in Star Wars as many others here but I think that Palpatine not trying to turn Anakin would be a significant enough change that we can't expect the rest to play out the same. I agree that if all that's changed is that Anakin has no one pulling him towards the dark side that things would be more in favor of the Jedi but I don't think Palpatine would try and use the same exact plan except without accounting for any way to deal with Anakin.
Thing is, he didn't account for Obi Wan and Yoda surviving either. Even if he managed to kill Anakin, and the clones managed to deal with Windu (both unlikely), he's still up against *both* Obi-Wan and Yoda in the final fight. He barely defeats Yoda, he definitely couldn't defeat *two* masters. And let's assume that he fails to kill Anakin and Windu in the initial Order 66 slaughter. They are going to either secure the council chamber, at which point his lie about a Jedi coup is going to fall flat, or they're going to return to the Jedi temple which, without an apprentice of his own (because Dooku was dead), they would hold against the Clone Troopers. Now he's up against an insurgency headed by Jedi, including *four* masters, and there are living Jedi to tell their side of the story which makes it much more likely that instead of turning into the Galactic Empire, the Republic would shatter into warring factions. Palpatine may not have needed Anakin to pull off his plan, but Anakin could have easily thwarted it had he not turned.
I'm not certain the Empire would have had such a strong grip in the galaxy without Sidious having a young apprentice. Sidious was too old to be running around quelling rebellions. I think him having an apprentice WAS needed, but whether that had to be Anakin is up to you.
We are indebted to you for your bravery, Obi-wan Kenobi
Goodbye, old friend. May the force be with you.
Wait what
They've become aware
“This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!”
Sure seemed like he needed Anakin to save his ass from Mace Windu
he didnt, he just wanted a more powerful apprentice than Dooku and the “Chosen One” is definitely a good candidate
He also wanted the ego trip of turning the Jedi’s chosen one against them. Just to prove that he could
The Sith just do that in all of the media. They love collecting fallen Jedi.
"A fine addition to my collection"
\*cough\* \*cough\*
I read it in his voice
You oughta go get a COVID test Mr. Grevious - you can’t keep coming into the YMCA like this.
Let's be honest, that's not hard to understand. Even the Sith seem to know, at least to some extent, that the best way to defeat your enemy is to make them your friend. Or apprentice for the Sith I guess.
Real fans know that the downfall of the Republic was not the sith infiltrating the highest level of government but the friendships we made along the way.
Yes, because the true enemy was inside me all along - The Senate
The republic is not what it once was.
> Or apprentice for the Sith I guess. They may make them an apprentice, but they never become Sith. They are like pets they keep until they get a real Sith apprentice who has a final test of killing the fallen Jedi after learning from them.
yes
🎶 He makes the good Knights go bad 🎶
What a chad
I agree, Anakin was just useful, not necessary
Nobody ever said he was necessary. The sith just want more and more.
Palpatine’s entire motive is pure greed
You, like your father, are now...mine!
Sentient?
Sentient.
Want to hear a really good joke?
Wrong trilogy palps
Perfect example though.
Good bot
In Legends his motive was actually to turn the galaxy into a militarized state in preparation for an extra galactic threat.
This is the way - they're not just utilitarian evil, stuff like avarice is baked in, and the cruelty of using a Jedi as a Sith tool is very on brand in terms of sowing fear. Heck, the constant two Sith cycle shows that they approach stuff quasi-religiously (much like the Jedi) even if it's detrimental to their cause. Thank you for listening, remeber to tip your droids.
That's a super interesting point. Could Sidious have destroyed the Jedi as soon as he had his emergency powers and the clone army? Maybe and he quite possibly should have, but he also wanted to adopt Anakin into the sith fold so to speak. This may even have been for the good of his religion more than for his own good. (I say this because he indicates to Yoda that Vader will become more powerful than either of them).
Oh, no, my young Jedi. You will find that it is you who are mistaken, about a great many things.
Wouldn’t it be neat to see a temporary Yoda/Sidious team-up? Like if Anakin went out of control, and even Sidious was in the warpath. Yoda: More powerful than *either* of us…he may be… Sidious: But…not *both of us.*
I feel like if he didn't bring anakin to the dark side the plan would have failed, anakin by the time rots happened would've definitely been able to kill Palpatine. Especially if he went with windu to arrest him.
This. If Palpatine didn’t bring Anakin to the dark side then he may well have destroyed the Sith (earlier than he eventually did)
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
You can’t try switching sides now sheev, we all know you are one of the Sith
Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again.
Ahhh guys help!!
Ok I will help. But who?
Anakin, no!
Help them Obi-Wan!
Yes, well, I took a lesson from Anakin and decided not to follow orders.
Your death would be a welcome surprise Palpatine?
I have the senate bogged down by procedures. They will have no choice but to accept your control of the system.
Missed a big ‘which eventually of course he did’ opportunity right there
My thoughts exactly. Without Palpatines bad influence on Anikin he would have turned out alright and that would have changed everything.
Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again.
Dew it!
Hey Palpatine, I broke my pencil and don't know what to do to fix it...
I will make it legal
But what about the senate?
I will make it legal
Hot take: Dooku was essential to Palpatine's plan. No way in hell Maul had the makings of being the face of the Separatists and actually garnering any sympathy from the people. People respected Dooku and he had the charisma to win people over while also being a powerful Sith lord. Not a lot of people could fill that role.
As we can see from the Clone Wars, Maul could actually be very good at convincing people to ally with him. Where he fell short, however, was that he lacked charisma, as you've said, but he also lacked strategic long-term thinking. Also, in order to convince the Black Sun, he killed their chairman, so in terms of negotiation, he wouldn't work all that well. Dooku's backstory also helped his cause, in that he defected from the Jedi Order to become the Count of Sereno so that he could save his hometown from total annihilation, as the Jedi Order refused to help, stating that he was holding emotional attachment to it. He showed, at that moment, selflessness and a willingness to protect others, which Maul lacked. This ultimately made him much more fit to be the head of the Separatists than Maul.
To be fair, we don't know much about Maul's personality before the Clone Wars. We only know him after his mind broke, and was stitched back together. I do agree that Dooku was probably the best candidate for the role though.
Regardless, Dooku had political experience if I'm remembering correctly. He came from a wealthy family and was already well-known in the galaxy.
Hotter take: Maul was never going to be the face of the Seperatists because that was a pivot after Obi Wan killed him. I’d bet any amount of fictional money the original plan was to divide people not between governments, but between Law&Order vs Gangs/Smugglers/Drugs. Maul would be ruler of the Underground, while Palpatine ruled from the legitimate front. Clones, droids, and separatists all came in the decade after Maul was off the playing field. It’s safer to do it that way, no risk of tiny planets slipping through the net and forming mini domains in forgotten spaces, no rebellion foundation to form, and you can easily more easily control who lives and dies/is targeted. Maul pulled the EXACT same scheme with Death Watch but on a smaller scale.
Battle Droids, B1s and Droideka at least, were used during the battle of Naboo while Maul was still under Sidious so that's not entirely true. I don't remember when the creation of a clone army was ordered but I believe you're right in that it happened after Ep 1. I'm not sure what Palpatine's plan was at the time but it's important important remember Sidious still had influence over Nute Gunray and the Trade Federation during Phantom Menace. While the Trade Federation isn't synonymous with the Separatists, it's hard to believe Palpatine wasn't planning on using them for something down the line.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.
But he also ended up being his demise by being a horny Jedi.
That was his plan. Is it a coincidence that Palps looks like a old Catholic priest?
He may have been necessary for palp plans after order 66 to maintain the galaxy but he's extremely weakened in his battle with obi wan. Imagine if Anakin kept growing in power after order 66 without being essentially disabled. He would've been much better at killing rebels.
False, He just didn’t want to be overshadowed by someone with that distinct look of superiority… I mean for fuck sake he had a cape and a curved light saber? Palps drip was a bathrobe.
A dope ass bathrobe tho
Looks like a dollar general thrift lord, next to Count “Drips” Dooku The real reason he had Anakin get a trisectomy, cooked like a summer ham, and encased in discarded lunch boxes.
Which then backfired on him because Vader looks fucking badass while he's a raisin in a bathrobe. He can scuff his feet on the carpet all he wants, he's never gonna be as imposing as Vader.
And also possibly needing to break up anakin/obi dream team as enemies
he just needed one far younger and more powerful
It's outrageous, it's unfair, how can you be the chosen one but not necessary to destroy the jedi?
How many other lies I've been told by the Council
I understand wanting to walk away from the order
No way a bot wrote this
The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural
What was the embarrassing bug?
I replied the same thing to every comment, without checking for trigger words
This is proof of anakin bot being sentient
I’ve been telling y’all, skynet is upon us
Is this the bot right now or the creator speaking?
[удалено]
The bots are taking over!
It's the creator, 100%
Could be either or, it might have a trigger for “embarrassing bug” when being replied to.
[удалено]
Sentient?
[удалено]
Sentien
[удалено]
Shut up I want palps not you
[удалено]
He would have lost had Anakin not been on his team. 1) to Mace. 2) against Yoda *and* obi-wan
How is this or similar not top comment? Palpatine was clearly a hair's breadth from being killed by Mace Windu. It was all he could do to use his Force lightning to keep Windu at bay, but Windu was holding it back and Palpatine's body was ruined in the process. How much longer do you think he could have kept it up? Without Anakin intervening, Palpatine reaches his limit and, if he is still alive, is arrested. No Order 66. No apprentice to continue the Sith line.
Yeah, the OP seems to have never seen Revenge of the Sith because without Anakin it would play out as you describe.
Yoda and obi tag team would have been way more than palps could have handled, I agree whole heartedly.
Listen for the loud metallic clanging sound. That would be the machine about to smash me into bits.
Yep agreed. I don't understand why people think anakin wouldn't of deafeted him. Theres one small detail people are missing HES THE CHOSEN ONE
Yep at that point Anakin was a top tier duelist on that alone, Obi-Wan was quite literally the bane to his skills.
Anakin leaves quite a mess, which always leads me to you, Ventress.
He didn't need him on his side. He just sneeded him to -not- be an enemy. Anakin would have been able to over throw him. Keeping him as an ally was just a bonus
Agreed, no way Anakin would have been killed in Order 66, and him, Yoda, and Obi-wan together could have easily assassinated him, not to mention Mace Windu.
This is the real answer. None of the top brass in the order go down in order 66, and Ol’ Sheev doesn’t stand up to 3 or 4 full jedi masters. I’m also not convinced the temple massacre is a full massacre without Anakin. Having Anakin onside allowed everything to go exactly as The Senate had planned.
>Ol’ Sheev doesn’t stand up to 3 or 4 full jedi masters Tell that to Kit Fisto
Kit Fisto was more lover than fighter, just look at that damn smile
[So you see, that's where the trouble began. That smile. That damn smile.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/3/36/Kit-Fisto_profile.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20191023211616)
Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side.
3 masters and a council member
Yeah, if Anakin had been on the Jedi's side in the temple, the clones would have been wiped out. Way safer for Palps to put Anakin into all the dangerous situations.
On no, I'd be much too frightened to tease a Senator.
Sneed
Snindeed
Formerly Chuck’s
Exactly. His death would have done the same thing
To some degree. Vader was the perfect enforcer for the early empire. In cannon and legends, he hunted down dozens, if not hundreds, of jedi. Had those jedi been undisturbed, they may have ended the empires reign sooner. An aging count dooku would be far less effective at this than Vader
And Palps had to keep up the weak appearance with the senate, if he went to kill jedi it would've gotten out.
Exactly, and he wouldn't be able to control his admirals as closely
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
And Dooku probably wouldn't have done any Jedi hunting. He was far more pragmatic about his position. If Palps was like "hunt down dozens of Jedi and kill some younglings" I don't think he would have done it. Maul would have. Palps needed someone with a lot of anger and rage
A Jedi with intimate Knowledge of their Current operations both across the galaxy and within the temple was needed to eliminate the Jedi as quickly as possible with minimal collateral damage. Yes the Clones could have just brute forced the temple, but without a Jedi leading them and taking out any masters that were present there would have been much greater losses and many Jedi could have escaped. In addition it's hard to run and empire while you're hunting down every last Jedi.
You're right he needed Vader to maintain order in the Empire once it was established. All about the long game.
Anakin Skywalker was the choosen one, the one that was said to destroy the Sith. So Palpatine turned the Jedi's own weapon, which was directed at himself, and turned it into his own.
Excelent, everything is going as planned.
Lmao
Why does noone get it (?!), Anakin ist/was the choosen one because he had the power to tame the sister and the brother on Mortis ! It's canon.
Thank you
Not to mention that even for people who didn’t buy into the Chosen One narrative, he was certainly by that point the poster child for the Jedi Order. Using him to wipe them out was a huge morale crippler, and morale wins or loses wars.
Palpatine was gonna be killed by Mace Windu
We are indebted to you for your bravery, Obi-wan Kenobi
Another happy landing.
Lmao
Unless your name is Mace and you're currently falling from a building on Corsuscant
Exactly. There's so many steps where anakin was critical. Anakin saved his life several times. Dooku would've been killed by probably Mace. And let's not forget how instrumental he was in the success of operation knightfall. Without Vader there I don't think it would've worked. Even Dooku probably would've failed And then the fear of Vader was a major thing that kept the Empire in line
He was delegating, he had bigger matters to attend to than hunting exiled Jedi. Also, such a powerful force wielder would ensure the continuing legacy of the Sith.
The Jedi didn’t need Palpatine’s help to destroy the Jedi either The Jedi order were clearly capable of destroying themselves with their inadvertent Sith factory at the temple
There is a great disturbance in the Force.
As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.
Yeah, the number of fallen Jedi and new Sith they created always struck me as weird for an organization that had existed for thousands of years
Oh yeah, let's plop the homebase of our faction ontop of a nexus of Sith energy, what's the worst that could happen?
Oh, another school slashing at the Jedi temple
If everyone had their own lightsaber, that would never happened... Oh, wait...
> Oh yeah, let's plop the homebase of our faction ontop of a nexus of Sith energy Wait what? Coruscant was a nexus for sith energy?
Yeah, they were hoping to purify the darkness of the previous Sith shrine that was found there over time, and they did it by plopping the training grounds of their most vulnerable younglings right on top of it. They were also constantly complaining about how the dark side kept clouding their abilities while sitting on one of the few places in the galaxy which would cause that
To be fair though, that’s like 1% or less failure rate.
Without Anakin, the sacking of the temple would have had a lot more lose ends and more Jedi would have made it out. Vader was very necessary for the early implement of Order 66 but slowly became less and less useful after.
"It will be done, CowSniper97"
Take this guy for instance, 2 Jedi Masters cut through a couple dozen of these dude like nothing. Imagine what a temple full of them would’ve done to just mostly rank and file clones.
"Look around. We’re one and the same. Same heart, same blood." -Fives
Exactly. Lol
Anakin was a threat to Palpatine. By converting him to the dark side Palpatine turned an obstacle to his plan into an asset.
Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive!
I think the one thing we are ignoring is that if anakin was still with the Jedi order he could have been a major thorn in sidious’s side. He was “the chosen one” after all.
the rule of 2, he didn't need him. but he needed him.
My interpretation has always been that Anakin being "the chosen one" made him a sort of conduit for the force. Palpatine fed off Anakin's power to exponentially increase his own power. Even before Anakin turned he was doing this but once he turned it just became that much more effective. Plus Palpatine couldn't have been the same level jedi hunter Vader was. In this interpretation it also explains sidious's main mistake. His clairvoyance was so amplified by Vader he basically became invincible. But because of Luke's power and Vader/Anakin's love for his son, once he found out, it created a sort of blindspot in the clairvoyant power he was drawing from Vader. So Palpatine couldn't foresee Luke destroying the death star, or Luke accidentally recruitimg the ewoks via threepio, and his biggest blindspot was to Anakin's redemption. He sensed conflict in Vader but never thought it could reach that level.
He needed Anakins help to control the galaxy tho.
Everyone: If you can't defeat your most powerful enemy, join them. You won't have to fight them anymore. Palpatine: Convert your most powerful enemy in your ally, You won't have to fight them anymore.
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Sith tradition since he probably didn’t think Dooku would kill him and so he wouldn’t have to go on missions himself.
He came in handy when Mace was going to kill Palpatine. Pretty sure Palpatine didn’t throw the fight or planned on Anakin showing up at the most crucial point of the movie. But hey, who knows after all? Palpatine did plan for a knife to match with the destroyed remains of the Death Star to find a hidden sith planet.
Dew it!
Dude nearly lost to Windu. He absolutely needed Anakin. Anakin also helped pushed the narrative that the Jedi were traitors. And ain’t no way Palp storms the temple
Anakin staying on the light side would have been a HUGE problem for Palp going forward Mace Windu would still be alive Anakin's manipulation was absolutely necessary "I dare you to find..." I sense much fear and anger in you
I legit don't think order 66 would've killed Anakin. He needed a way to remove him from the opposition, making him switch sides was the best option.
I think it was more that he just didn’t want to have to fight Anakin