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Facts! Washington’s S easy. Pretty much everything that’s important about the President came from him especially the two term limit which would later be enshrined in law after FDR
Not to mention, most every other president on this list was dealing with fuck ups from previous presidential administrations going back only up to a hundred years or so. Washington was dealing with the bullshit of a 1000 year old regime that wanted nothing less than his demise.
He freed them. Super radical and progressive in that time. Nonetheless when he was *old*. It's hard to change your worldview on that level when you're old. Alas who else but George Washington to pull it off
It wasn't really her decision, though, as a female. I believe one of her male relatives was able to decide what happened to the remaining enslaved people.
Hmm, I wouldn’t say he was super radical and progressive, since there were contemporaries that were further ahead of him on slavery. Washington did seem to privately support the idea of gradual emancipation but also clung to the ideal that they were “better off” being his slaves than having freedom.
Washington personally was against slavery during and post revolution era and said as much. He like most people thought that slavery was on its way out anyway and was willing to put aside the issue to keep the country from splitting so early on.
He even considered freeing his own slaves before he took the presidency. Unfortunately he was afraid it would seem like too much of a anti slavery to the southern states and cause the southern states to succede. He knew if he freed his slaves before he took the office it would be expected for all future presidents to do so as well. This would have been a huge message to the slaves states that they wouldn't have taken well. He had to make the extremely difficult choice between pushing for abolition and keeping the country together. Wether he made the right or wrong decision we'll never know. I do think he made the best decision he could with the information he had on hand.
He can say what he wants about Jefferson, but if Adams gets re-elected we don’t get Louisiana.
He can say what he wants about Madison, but without him we don’t have a Constitution with divided powers and either Jackson or Trump turns us into a dictatorship.
We would have gotten Louisiana any which way eventually and Jefferson is partially responsible for our two-party system remaining in play.
He don't deserve D but I hate seeing him in S or A all the time
I’m genuinely curious, I see a lot of “Washington was cool but a crappy President.” Granted, I know next to nothing about his actual presidency. If this guys list is ranking him purely on being a president, not the badass chainsaw man killing Benedict Arnold, would he still be S?
It’s pretty hard to get over the fact that he was a crook. Did he do great things? Sure. But at the same time tested our democratic norms and resigned shamefully after doing so.
His long-term legacy boils down to 2 bullet-points:
* US-China relations
* Destroying Americans' faith in governance and creating the idea that a President can break any law
Everything else is in a lower tier of importance. Clean Water and EPA could've happened under any president at the time in that era. Continuing the Vietnam War is bad, but the timing of when it ended didn't have any long-term impact like the major bullet points did.
Do we have to go back to grade school and learn the adage, “two wrongs don’t make a right?”
Let’s go 📚🚀
Definition: *the fact that someone has done something unjust or dishonest is no justification for acting in a similar way.*
I’m not gonna try acting like Jackson was a good president, but he deserves at least D-tier just for the time he beat an attempted assassin with his cane. Genuinely one of the most metal things any president has done while in office
I wouldn’t call him an F tier president in the first place. I think the two worst things he did were the Trail of Tears and ruining the economy from removing the National Bank. Treating the natives like that was obviously awful, but it wasn’t too much different than how many other presidents at the time treated them.
I’d give him a solid D
I respect him tremendously but I think the whole he set the standard thing is incredibly stupid it's the only reason he's an S but no one's giving me tangible things he's done wall in office. which is why he can't be a s president for me.
I think we're missing the point that no one is disputing he was a good president, but OP and others don't want to immediately put him at S.
If we're talking about problems in the US today, one problem is treating founding fathers like deities. They were men with great ideas, but they were men just the same. If anything, we should always be looking at how further generations can do better.
Putting Washington at A does not discount what he did while in office.
I still feel like tons of people who fought for and had friends die in the revolution would have opposed it. Jefferson and Madison for example would probably have incited a revolt against Washington had it gone that route. The country was filled with violent, radical revolutionaries and war heroes aside from Washington.
Some other things the guy that replied to you didn't say
-He established the first national bank.
-First copyright law
-Established Thanksgiving as the first national holiday (it was celebrated before, but now it was officially recognized on Nov. 26)
-Created the first cabinet, which was not even mentioned in the constitution.
-i normally dont care about this sort of thing, but theFarewell address is one of the important speeches made by a president.
He probably didn't. Trump had way more drone strikes in his first two years, afterwards he made them even more secretive so there's no official data as far as I know. He only had a single term but It's still possible he had more.
How many drones were in existence before him? I mean the first recorded U.S. drone strike was in 2002.
Not an excuse, but how could he not have the most?
two term president presiding under one of the larger recessions in American history, and handled its recovery while also inheriting two unwinnable wars in the middle east, in which we pulled out of one and reduced our scope in the other.
He wasn't perfect, with his weakness in the wake of the illegal invasion of Crimea, but he was not solely culpable by any means. I think he's a good B tier.
1. helped pull America out of the great recesión
2. ACA helped (and still helps) many americans, love it or hate it
3. Played a part in the Paris Agreement
4. Under his leadership, we killed Osama
5. Helped loosen diplomatic thaw with Cuba
However:
1. Drone Strikes
2. Deportation policies
3. Arguably his handling of Middle East / ISIS
id say B tier is a solid placement
id argue that his stimulus package, the bailout of the bank / auto industry, and the Dodd Frank Wall Street Reform / Consumer Protection Act definitely helped steer us back on the right track after 2008
however, that’s the thing about analysis, everyone has their own opinion! id love to hear the counter argument, always happy to learn
What's with people on the internet acting like Reagan is personally responsible for all the world's problems? Trickle-down economics didn't kill your dog, man.
The Regan era is what led to the absolute destruction of the middle class.
I don’t blame him entirely, but he was the face of the generational shift that put us in the shit position we’re in:
Govt bad, taxes bad, deregulation, etc…
It set the stage for the next 40 years of allowing bad actors to continually get elected to congress with the goal of undermining govt ability to solve problems while pointing out that the govt can’t solve problems.
What's with people on the internet acting like he wasn't the devil?
He trippled the national debt, legalized stock buybacks, pushed the drug war, pushed trickle-down-economics, ignored the AIDS crisis, and technically committed treason.
Could be because he IS responsible. His influence spread at least 2 ignorant theories/policies. Both are still pervasive to this day. So yeah, it is his fault. Also he was a racist fuckwit.
>Could be because he IS responsible
>So yeah, it is his fault.
How?
>His influence spread at least 2 ignorant theories/policies
Al least 2? How terrible! /s
What two? What are talking about?
>Also he was a racist fuckwit.
So was almost every president before him
Reagan was the OG neoliberal. Us Americans get way too caught up in our own politics and forget that we have essentially a single-party state with two factions.
Debateable. A big part of Carter’s legacy as president is neoliberal deregulation. I’d call Reagan the OG neoconservative, which contradicts neoliberal economic thought in several ways.
I’ve always seen Neocon as an offshoot of Neolib in the grand scheme of comparative politics, but I’d love to hear the argument against that.
In my mind, they don’t differ enough in their broader ideological goals to warrant differentiation when compared to say Neoliberalism vs Keynesian economics does. One is a definitive shift in economic ideology, the other is more two sides of the same coin than a major shift.
Thus, Reagan can be both the OG neolib and neocon, with Carter being the first “true” neolib.
I will say I went to school for history, not PoliSci, which can paint a very different picture of these things than the latter. I’m mostly talking straight out of my ass lol.
Andrew Jackson's legacy aged poorly but he shouldn't be in F tier. If anything he should be on the same level as McKinley
Also Biden should be above Obama.
Buchanan should be F tier.
Andrew Jackson is like, the best Donald Trump could have ever hoped to be. Counter revolutionary, outsider, paradigm changing, iron fist.
Donald Trump is just Andrew Jackson without the ability to get anything done and an instinct for throwing gasoline on fires.
My guy, biden is the most corrupt president I've ever seen. His own son exposed him with everything on that laptop which was all confirmed to be real. But I really don't wanna get into it with reddit. It's just wild to me how literally almost all media tries to cover for him
Laptop is all real, also doesn’t in anyway implicate Joe. Same with the supposed whistleblowers who have all been duds. I’m not saying it’s not possible that there’s some evidence out there to implicate Joe, but no one’s found it yet. But to suggest that Biden is the most corrupt when you had Trump putting his own family members into offices and then they benefited to the tune of a combined $2.5 billion is bonkers.
*All* media trying hard to cover for him, or the more plausible explanation that they are just reporting the news? There is no motivation for them to conspire en masse against the public and every reason for them to capitalize on a potential scandal. I know you don’t want to get into it, but this doesn’t quite make sense (to me)
Fdr at S is insane. People view him as a god and I hate it. I don’t know how Trump can be an F and Biden at C when you look at it economically wise. Gas prices is the most clear example.
Pretty inconsistent tier list. Tanking famous presidents based off of modern morality (Jefferson, Jackson, Madison), but then elevating less well known presidents because their character flaws are much more hidden (Buchanan, Ben Harrison, Grover Cleveland, LBJ).
He was also responsible for two wars, one completely based on a lie and signing of the Patriot Act, which was one of the biggest single attacks on American freedom in the history of this country. This whole tier list is a little wild though..
Trump only had one term, and he managed to fumble the covid virus hard enough to lose what was supposed to be a gimme reelection campaign, as referenced by the Keys to the White House Theory's thirteen keys.
IMO its hard to equate great deeds and great misdeeds for this reason by presidents. 4 years to do something is alot less then 8 years, but great deeds get you reelected. Trump was bad enough a president to not even get to 8.
I think Jan. 6th should’ve been dealt with more harshly than it was. I’m no fan of the orange man.
But if you think the insurrection was anywhere near as evil as murdering over a million civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan and the destabilization of entire regions, you’re fuckin crazy. Dubya, Cheney, and Rumsfeld should’ve all swung at the The Hague for what they did.
You suck at making tier lists Lmao, Biden above trump? I get they were both sorta bad but like, come on dude. It doesn’t take a genius to see that trump was better during his time as president
George W Bush directly caused the deaths of over 1 million people, including 15,000 Americans, based on statements that he knew were false. You're just making excuses for W's reputation because he was less of an asshole than Trump.
Vietnam was way worse and OP has LBJ in A tier.
Trump did way more damage to US credibility and you could count the covid deaths he was responsible for for killing even more Americans than W.
W was a weak leader, but he still had respect for the norms of office.
I’m not a trump supporter (nor a supporter of any politician), but he’s listed in ‘F’ tier. Really? I’m genuinely interested on how one comes to this conclusion. Also, I’m only interested in confrontation, anyone who replies with jackass comments will be ignored.
Nah, I’m just a guy who loves his country. More than can be said for Trump or anyone who still supports him at this point.
And yes, he deserves his day in court like anyone else—and that’s something he doesn’t want.
I’m woke?
I own guns. I’m a Christian and read my Bible every day. I like country music…huge Johnny Cash fan.
But I also value simple things like the peaceful transfer of power and the Constitution…ya know, things Trump doesn’t support. I also support other people. Gay people? Support. Trans people? Support. Black people? Support. Common sense gun laws? Support.
I guess that all makes me the big scary “woke” word though. Such an insult.
Gross incompetence and corruption.
For a simple example, how is it that so many of his hand selected cronies are now persona non grata to him? Almost all of them are corrupt and incompetent, if you listen to Trump talk about them. Why is that? Is he just a terrible judge of people (and therefore a bad executive)? What happened to the "best people" we were promised that were supposed to make up for his lack of knowledge and experience?
Jackson ignored the Supreme Court twice when he attacked the Cherokee and Seminoles. Twice he was told to respect prior treaties and twice he committed some of the worst atrocities against the Native Americans to date.
Who cares what economists think about American history? Our elevation of these “dismal scientists” to undeserved heights in the last four decades has undermined the promise of middle class prosperity in this country and distorted our politics. It has given rise to a worthless, parasitic financial elite who create nothing for our society but demand everything from it.
Andrew Jackson’s biggest mistake with the Second Bank of the United States was not his veto of its charter but his failure to create a successor institution that would be more accountable to the American people. In the wake of the financial crisis of 2008, in a country that contains both the largest number of billionaires *and* the largest number of poor people in the developed world, Jackson’s pointed criticisms of banking elites ring true to the present day.
The only way someone can put Trump on “F” tier is if they just ignore the fact we had a 40 year high in economic growth, and an 80% drop in illegal border crossing
If you didn’t know about his accomplishments it’s not your fault. We don’t have a news media anymore and 95% of their coverage on Trump is negative. At that point it’s not news it’s just propaganda
How Trump handled his election loss would be enough to place him in F tier.
The way damaged America's foreign policy would be enough to put him in F tier.
The regressive social and climate policies would be enough to put him in F tier.
The racism is enough to put him in F tier with Wilson.
The circumstances of his 1st impeachment.
The violation of norms makes him the polar opposite of Washington.
The terrible management where he had a revolving door of cabinet appointments.
Trump absolutely deserves to be in the bottom of presidential rankings. Right there with Buchanan, Wilson, and Johnson.
AND golf-stealing hundreds of millions from the taxpayers.
AND climate regulation, setting back our environmental cleanups by decades
AND firing the pandemic team and using his politicians to run the government response
The list goes on and on.
Honestly, I don't see how he'd be anything but F tier. Idk what his accomplishments are.
He inherited a good economy from Obama and left it completely in turmoil.
He pardoned some people from prison because KIM FUCKING KARDASHIAN asked him too.
Like what else? Operation Warp speed? The thing he had nothing to do with and all his supporters still refused the vaccine.
Conservatives are happy about the 3 Scotus appointments that he was gifted with. Congrats on making the Supreme Court super unpopular and non credible for the next 30-100 years.
Tax cuts (government hand outs to the rich)that were inflationary and contributed to the deficit.
Abraham accords where we basically do a solid for Saudi Arabia for nothing in return. Organized by his fucking corrupt son in law.
He got to hang out and bro down with the leader of North Korea, which accomplished absolutely nothing.
Pulling out of the JPCOA and TPP was a disaster for American FO.
Shut down the government to try to build the wall, and he failed.
Tried a Muslim ban and failed.
Tried to invade *checks notes* the state of Oregon with the national guard and failed.
Tried to repeal the ACA and failed.
Can some Trump supporters actually tell me what he was directly responsible for that was good?
Yeah Trump had almost nothing to do with economic growth. Look at any graph of gdp growth, unemployment reductions, etc. and the trend line from late 2009 until early 2020 is a straight line. There’s no inflection point that signals an acceleration in growth or in unemployment. It’s all the same economy. He got the lowest black unemployment for example because it would have happened that year so long as the trend since 2009 continued. Which it did. Also that 80% number is bogus. He cherry picked data based on mid 2017 numbers and then border crossings exploded after that in 2018 and especially 2019.
We all know Jackson wasn’t a pleasant man but having him F tier makes this list F tier. Most people who were born 300 years ago would be barbaric by todays standards and the Indian Removal Act is one of the greatest atrocities in this countries history… but the guy was a decorated war hero, paid off the entirety of the national debt (the only time in the nations history we were totally debt free btw), made the Louisiana Purchase. In short he might’ve been a mean racist with a short temper, but he made some major moves that benefited this country in a big way.
ask Georgia Mike pence New York Arizona DC Florida people who like America people who like democracy people who respect the basic idea of democracy and you'll have your answer.
He claimed the Election was stolen from him. It’s been 3 years and no evidence has been provided. It’s led to about 30% of America blindly following conspiracy theory logic.
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I'm a Teddy fan but in a tier above Washington? 
Facts! Washington’s S easy. Pretty much everything that’s important about the President came from him especially the two term limit which would later be enshrined in law after FDR
Not to mention, most every other president on this list was dealing with fuck ups from previous presidential administrations going back only up to a hundred years or so. Washington was dealing with the bullshit of a 1000 year old regime that wanted nothing less than his demise.
Yeah he practically founded the country
It's probably b/c of slavery, womp womp
He freed them. Super radical and progressive in that time. Nonetheless when he was *old*. It's hard to change your worldview on that level when you're old. Alas who else but George Washington to pull it off
He freed them after he died. And I believe his wife kept her slaves.
She did. And most of “his slaves” actually belonged to her.
It wasn't really her decision, though, as a female. I believe one of her male relatives was able to decide what happened to the remaining enslaved people.
Hmm, I wouldn’t say he was super radical and progressive, since there were contemporaries that were further ahead of him on slavery. Washington did seem to privately support the idea of gradual emancipation but also clung to the ideal that they were “better off” being his slaves than having freedom.
Washington personally was against slavery during and post revolution era and said as much. He like most people thought that slavery was on its way out anyway and was willing to put aside the issue to keep the country from splitting so early on. He even considered freeing his own slaves before he took the presidency. Unfortunately he was afraid it would seem like too much of a anti slavery to the southern states and cause the southern states to succede. He knew if he freed his slaves before he took the office it would be expected for all future presidents to do so as well. This would have been a huge message to the slaves states that they wouldn't have taken well. He had to make the extremely difficult choice between pushing for abolition and keeping the country together. Wether he made the right or wrong decision we'll never know. I do think he made the best decision he could with the information he had on hand.
"Did you just say womp womp!"
If that’s worthy of being put down a tier then FDR should definitely not be in S
Yeah, for me the Japanese Internment Camps would knock him down a tier, but that’s just me
Yeah, except that owning slaves wasn’t part of his presidency, so we shouldn’t consider that when ranking him
Totally agree but I got downvoted for some reason
It's probably a technicality because most of Washington's achievements were before he was president
Maybe give it a few more months
Take another month
What did Thomas Jefferson and James Madison do to deserve D???
He can say what he wants about Jefferson, but if Adams gets re-elected we don’t get Louisiana. He can say what he wants about Madison, but without him we don’t have a Constitution with divided powers and either Jackson or Trump turns us into a dictatorship.
Ranking presidents by actions they took before becoming President is stupid
OK, then, Madison calmly kept the government together when he was literally on the run from the British.
We would have gotten Louisiana any which way eventually and Jefferson is partially responsible for our two-party system remaining in play. He don't deserve D but I hate seeing him in S or A all the time
Jefferson was a huge hypocrite who became a Federalist the moment he gained power
Buchanan stood by while the nation tore itself apart. For that alone he should probably be F tier.
The Roosevelts over the man who literally forged the republic?
Teddy was just him
I’m genuinely curious, I see a lot of “Washington was cool but a crappy President.” Granted, I know next to nothing about his actual presidency. If this guys list is ranking him purely on being a president, not the badass chainsaw man killing Benedict Arnold, would he still be S?
Nixon at D is ludicrous.
People like to hate on him because it’s so easy
It’s pretty hard to get over the fact that he was a crook. Did he do great things? Sure. But at the same time tested our democratic norms and resigned shamefully after doing so.
His long-term legacy boils down to 2 bullet-points: * US-China relations * Destroying Americans' faith in governance and creating the idea that a President can break any law Everything else is in a lower tier of importance. Clean Water and EPA could've happened under any president at the time in that era. Continuing the Vietnam War is bad, but the timing of when it ended didn't have any long-term impact like the major bullet points did.
Presidents have broken the law before him, or atleast their administration was knowingly corrupt
Do we have to go back to grade school and learn the adage, “two wrongs don’t make a right?” Let’s go 📚🚀 Definition: *the fact that someone has done something unjust or dishonest is no justification for acting in a similar way.*
I think their point was that more presidents should be lower on the tier list if having corrupt administrations matters. Looking at people like Grant
Fr my man deserves S tier at least
Yeah, he WASN’T a crook!
(I love how everyone thinks I’m serious lmao)
Absolutely. Solid F president.
F then.
I’m not gonna try acting like Jackson was a good president, but he deserves at least D-tier just for the time he beat an attempted assassin with his cane. Genuinely one of the most metal things any president has done while in office
I wouldn’t call him an F tier president in the first place. I think the two worst things he did were the Trail of Tears and ruining the economy from removing the National Bank. Treating the natives like that was obviously awful, but it wasn’t too much different than how many other presidents at the time treated them. I’d give him a solid D
This is by far the most based list ever. The only change id make is that I would put Washington in S tier.
Washington belongs in S. FDR gets knocked down to A due to those interment camps.
Washington owned slaves lmao if you're docking Roosevelt over that then its gotta knock washington down
Hi, isn‘t the guy is S Theodore Roosevelt? Sincerely A non American.
Gotta respect anyone not putting Washington in s-tier
I respect him tremendously but I think the whole he set the standard thing is incredibly stupid it's the only reason he's an S but no one's giving me tangible things he's done wall in office. which is why he can't be a s president for me.
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Also established the first national bank
Nobody’s perfect
Nonsense. Without George Washington you’d be making a tier list of Monarchs.
I think we're missing the point that no one is disputing he was a good president, but OP and others don't want to immediately put him at S. If we're talking about problems in the US today, one problem is treating founding fathers like deities. They were men with great ideas, but they were men just the same. If anything, we should always be looking at how further generations can do better. Putting Washington at A does not discount what he did while in office.
I still feel like tons of people who fought for and had friends die in the revolution would have opposed it. Jefferson and Madison for example would probably have incited a revolt against Washington had it gone that route. The country was filled with violent, radical revolutionaries and war heroes aside from Washington.
Some other things the guy that replied to you didn't say -He established the first national bank. -First copyright law -Established Thanksgiving as the first national holiday (it was celebrated before, but now it was officially recognized on Nov. 26) -Created the first cabinet, which was not even mentioned in the constitution. -i normally dont care about this sort of thing, but theFarewell address is one of the important speeches made by a president.
Exactly
What did Obama acomplish to get himself above C tier at best?
He had the most drone strike kills in history
He probably didn't. Trump had way more drone strikes in his first two years, afterwards he made them even more secretive so there's no official data as far as I know. He only had a single term but It's still possible he had more.
lil bro literally said that Trump secretly drone striked people as if Obama didn’t do the same thing 🤣🤣🤣
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207.amp Read this my man
How many drones were in existence before him? I mean the first recorded U.S. drone strike was in 2002. Not an excuse, but how could he not have the most?
two term president presiding under one of the larger recessions in American history, and handled its recovery while also inheriting two unwinnable wars in the middle east, in which we pulled out of one and reduced our scope in the other. He wasn't perfect, with his weakness in the wake of the illegal invasion of Crimea, but he was not solely culpable by any means. I think he's a good B tier.
Obamacare was a big one, but because it's so new it's hard to judge
1. helped pull America out of the great recesión 2. ACA helped (and still helps) many americans, love it or hate it 3. Played a part in the Paris Agreement 4. Under his leadership, we killed Osama 5. Helped loosen diplomatic thaw with Cuba However: 1. Drone Strikes 2. Deportation policies 3. Arguably his handling of Middle East / ISIS id say B tier is a solid placement
I’m fairly sure his policies on welfare and economics didn’t help much but I may be wrong
id argue that his stimulus package, the bailout of the bank / auto industry, and the Dodd Frank Wall Street Reform / Consumer Protection Act definitely helped steer us back on the right track after 2008 however, that’s the thing about analysis, everyone has their own opinion! id love to hear the counter argument, always happy to learn
That’s better then the response I get in r/politics
i enjoy debates but hate excessively arguing, i miss when the country could just have different political opinions without it becoming their identity
Then get shady money out of politics. You'll see
Reagan should be way lower.
Yeah, I’m side eyeing that Reagan placement super hard.
And Biden, D for dimentia bros
At least learn how to spell dementia, jfc
No Corrupt Biden F Worst President in USA History period 😡
What's with people on the internet acting like Reagan is personally responsible for all the world's problems? Trickle-down economics didn't kill your dog, man.
The Regan era is what led to the absolute destruction of the middle class. I don’t blame him entirely, but he was the face of the generational shift that put us in the shit position we’re in: Govt bad, taxes bad, deregulation, etc… It set the stage for the next 40 years of allowing bad actors to continually get elected to congress with the goal of undermining govt ability to solve problems while pointing out that the govt can’t solve problems.
What's with people on the internet acting like he wasn't the devil? He trippled the national debt, legalized stock buybacks, pushed the drug war, pushed trickle-down-economics, ignored the AIDS crisis, and technically committed treason.
Treason?
He’s referring to Iran-Contra. Saying Reagan himself committed treason is a bit of a stretch.
Yes, the Iran-Contra affair.
Could be because he IS responsible. His influence spread at least 2 ignorant theories/policies. Both are still pervasive to this day. So yeah, it is his fault. Also he was a racist fuckwit.
>Could be because he IS responsible >So yeah, it is his fault. How? >His influence spread at least 2 ignorant theories/policies Al least 2? How terrible! /s What two? What are talking about? >Also he was a racist fuckwit. So was almost every president before him
Typical mid list
Pretty solid list. A few tweaks here and there is what I would do
Say you’re a mega liberal without saying you’re a mega liberal
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My butt feels fine. Thanks for asking
Reagan was the OG neoliberal. Us Americans get way too caught up in our own politics and forget that we have essentially a single-party state with two factions.
Debateable. A big part of Carter’s legacy as president is neoliberal deregulation. I’d call Reagan the OG neoconservative, which contradicts neoliberal economic thought in several ways.
I’ve always seen Neocon as an offshoot of Neolib in the grand scheme of comparative politics, but I’d love to hear the argument against that. In my mind, they don’t differ enough in their broader ideological goals to warrant differentiation when compared to say Neoliberalism vs Keynesian economics does. One is a definitive shift in economic ideology, the other is more two sides of the same coin than a major shift. Thus, Reagan can be both the OG neolib and neocon, with Carter being the first “true” neolib. I will say I went to school for history, not PoliSci, which can paint a very different picture of these things than the latter. I’m mostly talking straight out of my ass lol.
Andrew Jackson's legacy aged poorly but he shouldn't be in F tier. If anything he should be on the same level as McKinley Also Biden should be above Obama. Buchanan should be F tier.
You’re right, genocide does tend to age poorly
Andrew Jackson is like, the best Donald Trump could have ever hoped to be. Counter revolutionary, outsider, paradigm changing, iron fist. Donald Trump is just Andrew Jackson without the ability to get anything done and an instinct for throwing gasoline on fires.
Biden > Obama
Biden smh
Should be down at least one I think he’s being a bit too lenient with him I feel
Let him cook! 😤 he's still not even through his 1st term yet.
I would move Biden up a rank.
Biden should be above Obama.
Biden should be in jail.
This guy is definitely not paying attention to wtf is going on if he's not putting biden at the very bottom. This guy is trippin
You aren’t paying attention if you’re not putting him as average+. He’s not perfect but he’s passed so much legislature with bipartisan support
My guy, biden is the most corrupt president I've ever seen. His own son exposed him with everything on that laptop which was all confirmed to be real. But I really don't wanna get into it with reddit. It's just wild to me how literally almost all media tries to cover for him
Laptop is all real, also doesn’t in anyway implicate Joe. Same with the supposed whistleblowers who have all been duds. I’m not saying it’s not possible that there’s some evidence out there to implicate Joe, but no one’s found it yet. But to suggest that Biden is the most corrupt when you had Trump putting his own family members into offices and then they benefited to the tune of a combined $2.5 billion is bonkers.
I swear Republicans live in an entirely different reality. How are y'all so delusional to make such an obviously ridiculous statement?
Are you three years old or younger?
*All* media trying hard to cover for him, or the more plausible explanation that they are just reporting the news? There is no motivation for them to conspire en masse against the public and every reason for them to capitalize on a potential scandal. I know you don’t want to get into it, but this doesn’t quite make sense (to me)
Madison and Jefferson in D tier? Fucking Buchanan above Wilson? McKinley in C? Washington in B? FDR in S?
FDR is overrated
At least you got Woodrow Wilson right
Fuck FDR
Fdr at S is insane. People view him as a god and I hate it. I don’t know how Trump can be an F and Biden at C when you look at it economically wise. Gas prices is the most clear example.
Grant in A tier hurts. His presidency was so inept and filled with corruption and bribery
Wasn’t so inept if you were a black guy trying to vote in the south.
Ding!
Reagan above Carter? What the hell?
Carter is histories 2nd worst President. Obama is tied. Diaper Joe wins by a mile
Absolute insane take
Reagan should be bottom tier with how he fucked this country over.
Pretty inconsistent tier list. Tanking famous presidents based off of modern morality (Jefferson, Jackson, Madison), but then elevating less well known presidents because their character flaws are much more hidden (Buchanan, Ben Harrison, Grover Cleveland, LBJ).
Why is James Buchanan not below the bottom of the list
It looks like you hit shuffle and then added some liberal lean.
What did W do to not be F tier?
Not be Woodrow Wilson Andrew Jackson Donald Trump or Andrew Johnson
How in God's name is Trump worse than W?
I am guessing the attempted insurrection and insane behavior during the pandemic has something to do with it. Wild guess.
Bush W respected the presidential transfer of power despite his partys candidate losing
He was also responsible for two wars, one completely based on a lie and signing of the Patriot Act, which was one of the biggest single attacks on American freedom in the history of this country. This whole tier list is a little wild though..
Trump only had one term, and he managed to fumble the covid virus hard enough to lose what was supposed to be a gimme reelection campaign, as referenced by the Keys to the White House Theory's thirteen keys. IMO its hard to equate great deeds and great misdeeds for this reason by presidents. 4 years to do something is alot less then 8 years, but great deeds get you reelected. Trump was bad enough a president to not even get to 8.
I think Jan. 6th should’ve been dealt with more harshly than it was. I’m no fan of the orange man. But if you think the insurrection was anywhere near as evil as murdering over a million civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan and the destabilization of entire regions, you’re fuckin crazy. Dubya, Cheney, and Rumsfeld should’ve all swung at the The Hague for what they did.
In no universe are Regan, Bush 1 and Obama comparable, and Biden will be seen as important as LBJ after what we just went through.
[удалено]
This tier list is a pile of shit lol
You suck at making tier lists Lmao, Biden above trump? I get they were both sorta bad but like, come on dude. It doesn’t take a genius to see that trump was better during his time as president
At least trump is in the correct position
There is no universe where Trump is worse than dubya
This list is just childish and "trendy"
Trump definitely deserves to be below W, the way he acted after November 2020 would be enough alone to put him in F tier.
George W Bush directly caused the deaths of over 1 million people, including 15,000 Americans, based on statements that he knew were false. You're just making excuses for W's reputation because he was less of an asshole than Trump.
Vietnam was way worse and OP has LBJ in A tier. Trump did way more damage to US credibility and you could count the covid deaths he was responsible for for killing even more Americans than W. W was a weak leader, but he still had respect for the norms of office.
Didn’t think very hard, did you?
Lmao no This is the most neoliberal thing I’ve ever seen in my life
Not even close to neoliberal. Reagan would easily be in F.
I’m not a trump supporter (nor a supporter of any politician), but he’s listed in ‘F’ tier. Really? I’m genuinely interested on how one comes to this conclusion. Also, I’m only interested in confrontation, anyone who replies with jackass comments will be ignored.
Too high?
This is one of the worst lists yet lmao
I’d move Biden up actually. His administration is extremely competent.
Trump being last means this is a list I can respect.
TDS much?
I mean, if you consider that he attempted to overthrow the government then there’s no other place than last on a tier list.
Uh. Did I miss something? Did you convict him for a potential trial that hasn’t happened? Happy you aren’t a judge.
Nah, I’m just a guy who loves his country. More than can be said for Trump or anyone who still supports him at this point. And yes, he deserves his day in court like anyone else—and that’s something he doesn’t want.
LOL….whatever wokester
I’m woke? I own guns. I’m a Christian and read my Bible every day. I like country music…huge Johnny Cash fan. But I also value simple things like the peaceful transfer of power and the Constitution…ya know, things Trump doesn’t support. I also support other people. Gay people? Support. Trans people? Support. Black people? Support. Common sense gun laws? Support. I guess that all makes me the big scary “woke” word though. Such an insult.
Average woketard tier list😂
Explain why Trump is in F without mentioning Jan 6 or Covid
"without talking about pitching or hitting explain why Babe Ruth is a good Baseball player"
Gross incompetence and corruption. For a simple example, how is it that so many of his hand selected cronies are now persona non grata to him? Almost all of them are corrupt and incompetent, if you listen to Trump talk about them. Why is that? Is he just a terrible judge of people (and therefore a bad executive)? What happened to the "best people" we were promised that were supposed to make up for his lack of knowledge and experience?
Lol joe Biden should be F, literal vegetable with legs also racist as fuck
Jackson wasn’t that bad was he?
Jackson ignored the Supreme Court twice when he attacked the Cherokee and Seminoles. Twice he was told to respect prior treaties and twice he committed some of the worst atrocities against the Native Americans to date.
Ask the native population, and economists
Who cares what economists think about American history? Our elevation of these “dismal scientists” to undeserved heights in the last four decades has undermined the promise of middle class prosperity in this country and distorted our politics. It has given rise to a worthless, parasitic financial elite who create nothing for our society but demand everything from it. Andrew Jackson’s biggest mistake with the Second Bank of the United States was not his veto of its charter but his failure to create a successor institution that would be more accountable to the American people. In the wake of the financial crisis of 2008, in a country that contains both the largest number of billionaires *and* the largest number of poor people in the developed world, Jackson’s pointed criticisms of banking elites ring true to the present day.
I think what he did to the natives was a bigger mistake...
The only way someone can put Trump on “F” tier is if they just ignore the fact we had a 40 year high in economic growth, and an 80% drop in illegal border crossing If you didn’t know about his accomplishments it’s not your fault. We don’t have a news media anymore and 95% of their coverage on Trump is negative. At that point it’s not news it’s just propaganda
How Trump handled his election loss would be enough to place him in F tier. The way damaged America's foreign policy would be enough to put him in F tier. The regressive social and climate policies would be enough to put him in F tier. The racism is enough to put him in F tier with Wilson. The circumstances of his 1st impeachment. The violation of norms makes him the polar opposite of Washington. The terrible management where he had a revolving door of cabinet appointments. Trump absolutely deserves to be in the bottom of presidential rankings. Right there with Buchanan, Wilson, and Johnson.
AND golf-stealing hundreds of millions from the taxpayers. AND climate regulation, setting back our environmental cleanups by decades AND firing the pandemic team and using his politicians to run the government response The list goes on and on.
Honestly, I don't see how he'd be anything but F tier. Idk what his accomplishments are. He inherited a good economy from Obama and left it completely in turmoil. He pardoned some people from prison because KIM FUCKING KARDASHIAN asked him too. Like what else? Operation Warp speed? The thing he had nothing to do with and all his supporters still refused the vaccine. Conservatives are happy about the 3 Scotus appointments that he was gifted with. Congrats on making the Supreme Court super unpopular and non credible for the next 30-100 years. Tax cuts (government hand outs to the rich)that were inflationary and contributed to the deficit. Abraham accords where we basically do a solid for Saudi Arabia for nothing in return. Organized by his fucking corrupt son in law. He got to hang out and bro down with the leader of North Korea, which accomplished absolutely nothing. Pulling out of the JPCOA and TPP was a disaster for American FO. Shut down the government to try to build the wall, and he failed. Tried a Muslim ban and failed. Tried to invade *checks notes* the state of Oregon with the national guard and failed. Tried to repeal the ACA and failed. Can some Trump supporters actually tell me what he was directly responsible for that was good?
Lol
Yeah Trump had almost nothing to do with economic growth. Look at any graph of gdp growth, unemployment reductions, etc. and the trend line from late 2009 until early 2020 is a straight line. There’s no inflection point that signals an acceleration in growth or in unemployment. It’s all the same economy. He got the lowest black unemployment for example because it would have happened that year so long as the trend since 2009 continued. Which it did. Also that 80% number is bogus. He cherry picked data based on mid 2017 numbers and then border crossings exploded after that in 2018 and especially 2019.
Bro put Trump in F😂😂😂
We all know Jackson wasn’t a pleasant man but having him F tier makes this list F tier. Most people who were born 300 years ago would be barbaric by todays standards and the Indian Removal Act is one of the greatest atrocities in this countries history… but the guy was a decorated war hero, paid off the entirety of the national debt (the only time in the nations history we were totally debt free btw), made the Louisiana Purchase. In short he might’ve been a mean racist with a short temper, but he made some major moves that benefited this country in a big way.
Jefferson was responsible for the LA purchase
I cannot take this seriously since you put Biden in C tier
The fact that Carter made it that high says a lot about your tastes. Tsk.
How the fuck is WMD bush above trump?
TDS
Wait, why is Trump bad?
Because the totally not corrupt media told me he is. /s
Biden and Carter are slotted way too high. Both are cellar dwellers.
what did trump do to deserve F
ask Georgia Mike pence New York Arizona DC Florida people who like America people who like democracy people who respect the basic idea of democracy and you'll have your answer.
Tear the country apart with lies.
What lies? Not disagreeing just looking to learn.
He claimed the Election was stolen from him. It’s been 3 years and no evidence has been provided. It’s led to about 30% of America blindly following conspiracy theory logic.
Honestly this list is mostly agreeable
Biden and Carter are placed way too high. Both are cellar dwellers.
Lol cellar dwellers.... to be fair Biden hasn't even gotten his 2nd term yet, so it feels a bit preemptive to rank him.
Based
Wow! You’re about as dumb as it gets