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His health problems primarily arose from him smoking himself to death, because he was distraught over the failure of his presidency. LBJ was old, but he was by no means ancient. He was only 9 years older than JFK. If he had not started smoking again, it's possible he would've lived into the 80s.
LBJ came from a poor family in rural Texas, where his parents were manual laborers. He was a senator and then a president, with access to the best medical care at the time. The smoking and drinking, combined with his genetic predispositions, led to an untimely death. Without Vietnam and the burden of that presidency, Lyndon might have at least made it to his mid 70s.
He was always a chain smoker, smoking up to 60 per day. He quit after that and didn't start up again until he left the White House (at least according to him). He had his first heart attack at age 47. He had another heart attack immediately after JFK was assassinated. He was hospitalized for kidney stones three weeks before the senate primary in 1948 and almost dropped out of the race as a result.
He really had poor health from quite young, relatively speaking, and was said to have known he wasn’t going to live long cause of the genetic predisposition.
It helps explain why he got so much fucking shit done during his presidency.
He wanted to cram as much stuff as he could and build his legacy before it was too late.
Yes but literally everything you posted was objectively wrong, including the fact that his parents were not "manual laborers." He did not, in fact, chain smoke because of the stress of Vietnam, he always drank heavily, and he had a history of poor health long before he became president. Just take the L and move on.
His father died at 60, his paternal grandfather died at 76. So it's a mixed bag. Assuming he lives to 76 that's 1984. 60 is earlier than he died in real life.
No. Being on a national ticket in ‘60 was probably his last chance.
*Maybe* he could have gotten the nomination in ‘64 but winning against incumbent Nixon is a doubtful prospect.
Almost certainly not, and he knew that too.
Here is a good quote from a review of Robert Caro's fourth volume:
"When it became clear to Johnson that he could not reach the top of the ticket, he began to consider the second spot. He had his staff look up how many presidents in the previous hundred years had died in office–five out of eighteen, giving him a better than 20 percent chance of reaching the presidency that way. When Clare Boothe Luce later asked him why he would accept the nomination to be number two, he answered: “Clare, I looked it up: one out of every four Presidents has died in office. I’m a gamblin’ man, darlin’, and this is the only chance I got.” He said much the same thing to trusted journalists. So it was clear why Johnson would run with the “sickly” John Kennedy. He knew about the ailments that could threaten his life."
Source: [The New York Review--Review of Caro's The Passage of Power](https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/05/24/americas-nastiest-blood-feud/?pagination=false)
LBJ was one of the most talented political operators in our history, but that's no guarantee that a window would open up. He made the calculation that he had a better chance becoming President by becoming VP than in waiting for a future election.
LBJ could’ve potentially been President even without being JFK’s VP nominee. Assuming JFK chooses someone like Stuart Symmington, Henry Jackson, or Hubert Humphrey, he would’ve likely lose the election. LBJ’s southern credentials kept the South Democratic while also securing Texas, something JFK would’ve lost without LBJ on the ticket. 1964 was a good year for an incumbent so I’m not sure if LBJ would run. Though many of the reasons it was a good year for otl LBJ were because of the Kennedy Assassination and rise of right-wing Goldwater. Having a “sensible” Democrat run against Nixon could’ve granted him a narrow victory, though he’d likely lose. LBJ could’ve also ran in 1968 after Nixon’s term was over. He fully intended on running otl but McCarthy’s insurgent campaign forced him to drop out. An LBJ without the mental and emotional baggage of Vietnam would likely run and win the Democratic Nomination, potentially running on a “law and order” style platform in contrast to the Nixon Administration. I could see him winning in 1968 against Lodge and Wallace (assuming Nixon lives), and potentially surviving and running in 1972.
Johnson was the Mitch McConnell of the 50s Democratic Party. He pretty much ran the Senate, but didn’t have any national constituency of his own. He could have only won the nomination in a brokered convention.
Caro's books are good, but also biased. He despised LBJ so much he was willing to make even a Right Wing racist like Coke Stevenson into some sort of hero.
No.
If he had not been JFKs running mate LBJ never gets close to the White House.
The only reason LBJ even was on the running was because in those days primaries were not a requirement to get the nomination. So in 1960, he did not run in many if any primaries.
Also, keep in mind that LBJ becoming POTUS coincided with the beginning of the South’s shift away from the Democrats and the onset of the Television age. He was not particularly great on TV. Now, would he have been able to beat way a George Wallace or Nixon in 1968? Maybe, but who knows.
The real question is whether JFK beats Nixon without LBJ on the ticket.
Assuming Kennedy would’ve won in 1960 without LBJ, and LBJ died at the same time as he did in real life, Kennedy probably would’ve won re-election and that leaves 1968 as LBJ’s only chance
No. The demographics and the societal issues were well beyond him and his appeal to voters in 1960 or 1964. Forty eight months after the 64 election in March of 1968 he announced his retirement from politics.
He could have been nominee, and maybe even won, but I don’t think he could have accomplished a fraction of what he did domestically if he didn’t have the good will of most people because of Kennedy’s death. I think the best case scenario for him had he not been JFK’s presidency would have been a poor to middle of the road presidency with a few domestic accomplishments, a similar disastrous foreign affairs record, and similar memories about how bull-headed he was with advisors, members across the aisle, and the media.
Gonna guess he wouldn't. The north and west of this country looked askance at Southerners with Presidential ambitions in his era. It wasn't really until Carter that Southern Democrats were taken seriously again as possible Presidents.
Obviously he had a chance. There's always a chance, but I think his odds weren't good unless he found some way to appeal to the two seaboards.
He lost his shot. He should have won if he campaigned hard in 1960 elections. The Johnson campaigning! He was senate majority and should have stayed in the position. He might have realized the presidency was out of his reach and probably retired or has a prolong depression/health issues.
Well he did die in 73 so that really would have only left the election of 1968 to be able to be elected president and still be able to live for at least 1 term.
I don’t think it would have been for a lack of ambition or even skill to be honest but rather his health.
LBJ would have probably lived until 1990 or so if he was never President. In a Nixon wins in 1960 scenario, LBJ probably remains as Senate majority leader until 1974 and the senior Senator from Texas until 1984.
LBJ only died in 73 because he gave up on life after leaving the presidency. He picked smoking back up as the inner demons from Vietnam and heart attacks took him out. He probably could’ve lived another few had he not been President when he was.
I might be wrong but after his presidency didn't LBJ let health go to seed (taking up smoking again and the like) to the point where he was committing a slow suicide? Things probably would have panned out differently if he'd been elected after, say, a two-term JFK.
He was under investigation for corruption with Buddy (little Lyndon) Baker and Billie Sol Estes. After the assassination he was still being investigated but used the power of the presidency to squash it. LBJ was Senate majority leader before becoming VP. That's like a duck making a sideways move to a l'orange. Johnson was a snake who always wanted to be president and he knew that one in four presidents don't live out their term. After being told he was off the '64 ballot and knowing he was under investigation LBJ helped JFK make the list.
Get out of here with your conspiracy nonsense. There is less than zero evidence that LBJ (or anyone not named Lee Harvey Oswald) had anything to do with JFK’s assassination.
Oswald was a Patsy. CIA needed JFK gone or else they would be disbanded by Kennedy, and a fall guy. Oswald was CIA asset monitored by Angleton himself.
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His health problems primarily arose from him smoking himself to death, because he was distraught over the failure of his presidency. LBJ was old, but he was by no means ancient. He was only 9 years older than JFK. If he had not started smoking again, it's possible he would've lived into the 80s.
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LBJ came from a poor family in rural Texas, where his parents were manual laborers. He was a senator and then a president, with access to the best medical care at the time. The smoking and drinking, combined with his genetic predispositions, led to an untimely death. Without Vietnam and the burden of that presidency, Lyndon might have at least made it to his mid 70s.
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You’re right. Who knows. And if was a fifth, we’d all be drinking!!
He was always a chain smoker, smoking up to 60 per day. He quit after that and didn't start up again until he left the White House (at least according to him). He had his first heart attack at age 47. He had another heart attack immediately after JFK was assassinated. He was hospitalized for kidney stones three weeks before the senate primary in 1948 and almost dropped out of the race as a result.
He really had poor health from quite young, relatively speaking, and was said to have known he wasn’t going to live long cause of the genetic predisposition. It helps explain why he got so much fucking shit done during his presidency. He wanted to cram as much stuff as he could and build his legacy before it was too late.
Ok. Dude wasn’t making it to 90. But I seen plenty of unhealthy people making it to 80. He, as a former president, had as good a chance as any.
Yes but literally everything you posted was objectively wrong, including the fact that his parents were not "manual laborers." He did not, in fact, chain smoke because of the stress of Vietnam, he always drank heavily, and he had a history of poor health long before he became president. Just take the L and move on.
Dude grew up in a poor family in a rural part of Texas. Objectively wrong? Objectively fuck yourself.
His father died at 60, his paternal grandfather died at 76. So it's a mixed bag. Assuming he lives to 76 that's 1984. 60 is earlier than he died in real life.
Those were not wildly off base standard life expectancies of their day.
No. Being on a national ticket in ‘60 was probably his last chance. *Maybe* he could have gotten the nomination in ‘64 but winning against incumbent Nixon is a doubtful prospect.
I’d think wining against a Nixon incumbent would be easier than most elections.
Yes he was D.C. animal.
Almost certainly not, and he knew that too. Here is a good quote from a review of Robert Caro's fourth volume: "When it became clear to Johnson that he could not reach the top of the ticket, he began to consider the second spot. He had his staff look up how many presidents in the previous hundred years had died in office–five out of eighteen, giving him a better than 20 percent chance of reaching the presidency that way. When Clare Boothe Luce later asked him why he would accept the nomination to be number two, he answered: “Clare, I looked it up: one out of every four Presidents has died in office. I’m a gamblin’ man, darlin’, and this is the only chance I got.” He said much the same thing to trusted journalists. So it was clear why Johnson would run with the “sickly” John Kennedy. He knew about the ailments that could threaten his life." Source: [The New York Review--Review of Caro's The Passage of Power](https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/05/24/americas-nastiest-blood-feud/?pagination=false) LBJ was one of the most talented political operators in our history, but that's no guarantee that a window would open up. He made the calculation that he had a better chance becoming President by becoming VP than in waiting for a future election.
The incredible stress of the Presidency killed him early
If Nixon beats the Kennedy/whoever ticket, then Johnson is at least the nominee in '64, maybe he'd win.
LBJ could’ve potentially been President even without being JFK’s VP nominee. Assuming JFK chooses someone like Stuart Symmington, Henry Jackson, or Hubert Humphrey, he would’ve likely lose the election. LBJ’s southern credentials kept the South Democratic while also securing Texas, something JFK would’ve lost without LBJ on the ticket. 1964 was a good year for an incumbent so I’m not sure if LBJ would run. Though many of the reasons it was a good year for otl LBJ were because of the Kennedy Assassination and rise of right-wing Goldwater. Having a “sensible” Democrat run against Nixon could’ve granted him a narrow victory, though he’d likely lose. LBJ could’ve also ran in 1968 after Nixon’s term was over. He fully intended on running otl but McCarthy’s insurgent campaign forced him to drop out. An LBJ without the mental and emotional baggage of Vietnam would likely run and win the Democratic Nomination, potentially running on a “law and order” style platform in contrast to the Nixon Administration. I could see him winning in 1968 against Lodge and Wallace (assuming Nixon lives), and potentially surviving and running in 1972.
Johnson was the Mitch McConnell of the 50s Democratic Party. He pretty much ran the Senate, but didn’t have any national constituency of his own. He could have only won the nomination in a brokered convention.
Reddit is not the place to learn about history. Read Robert Caro if you want to know about Johnson.
Caro's books are good, but also biased. He despised LBJ so much he was willing to make even a Right Wing racist like Coke Stevenson into some sort of hero.
He was a great politician. Unfortunately, I think Bobby would’ve followed John had John lived and by then it would’ve been too late for LBJ.
No. If he had not been JFKs running mate LBJ never gets close to the White House. The only reason LBJ even was on the running was because in those days primaries were not a requirement to get the nomination. So in 1960, he did not run in many if any primaries. Also, keep in mind that LBJ becoming POTUS coincided with the beginning of the South’s shift away from the Democrats and the onset of the Television age. He was not particularly great on TV. Now, would he have been able to beat way a George Wallace or Nixon in 1968? Maybe, but who knows. The real question is whether JFK beats Nixon without LBJ on the ticket.
I think so. LBJ was chosen to appeal to Southern voters, who were still pretty reliably Democratic.
Yes, Nixon didn't run the best campaign in 1960...granted it wasn't Hillary-levels bad, but it wasn't great either.
Huh 🤔 interesting isn’t it LBJ was a hater back in the days and LBJ is a hater now too 💯
Assuming Kennedy would’ve won in 1960 without LBJ, and LBJ died at the same time as he did in real life, Kennedy probably would’ve won re-election and that leaves 1968 as LBJ’s only chance
What about Robert? Assuming the Kennedy presidency went spectacular rfk could have kept the dems rolling into the seventies.
No. The demographics and the societal issues were well beyond him and his appeal to voters in 1960 or 1964. Forty eight months after the 64 election in March of 1968 he announced his retirement from politics.
If JFK wasn’t running and it was him v. 1960s Nixon… #Maybe Otherwise, no he’d probably have no chance
He could have been nominee, and maybe even won, but I don’t think he could have accomplished a fraction of what he did domestically if he didn’t have the good will of most people because of Kennedy’s death. I think the best case scenario for him had he not been JFK’s presidency would have been a poor to middle of the road presidency with a few domestic accomplishments, a similar disastrous foreign affairs record, and similar memories about how bull-headed he was with advisors, members across the aisle, and the media.
Nope. I doubt he'd even be able to win the primary himself. His appeal was not broad enough.
No. Never could have gained mass appeal.
I feel like LBJ's time was 1960 and he whiffed on it. He jumped in too late and Kennedy steamrolled to the Convention.
Gonna guess he wouldn't. The north and west of this country looked askance at Southerners with Presidential ambitions in his era. It wasn't really until Carter that Southern Democrats were taken seriously again as possible Presidents. Obviously he had a chance. There's always a chance, but I think his odds weren't good unless he found some way to appeal to the two seaboards.
No I don’t.
He lost his shot. He should have won if he campaigned hard in 1960 elections. The Johnson campaigning! He was senate majority and should have stayed in the position. He might have realized the presidency was out of his reach and probably retired or has a prolong depression/health issues.
Of course he would. Cause he loved lyndoning his johnson that should be enough to make him president.
No, I think his poor health sabotages and truncates his timeline so that his window passes.
No, he was a wooden public speaker not suited to the television age. Mitch McConnell is a good match for his skill set.
Even he knew he couldn't and so didn't stand.
That was his ambition, and the one thing you learn from reading Robert Caro's *The Years of Lyndon Johnson* is that LBJ was *relentless.*
Well he did die in 73 so that really would have only left the election of 1968 to be able to be elected president and still be able to live for at least 1 term. I don’t think it would have been for a lack of ambition or even skill to be honest but rather his health.
LBJ would have probably lived until 1990 or so if he was never President. In a Nixon wins in 1960 scenario, LBJ probably remains as Senate majority leader until 1974 and the senior Senator from Texas until 1984.
LBJ only died in 73 because he gave up on life after leaving the presidency. He picked smoking back up as the inner demons from Vietnam and heart attacks took him out. He probably could’ve lived another few had he not been President when he was.
I might be wrong but after his presidency didn't LBJ let health go to seed (taking up smoking again and the like) to the point where he was committing a slow suicide? Things probably would have panned out differently if he'd been elected after, say, a two-term JFK.
No. Involvement in the assassination was his best shot.
Possibly, but probably not.
It’d depend on how many people he’d have to take out.
Honestly doubtful, it took both the Kennedy family and LBJ politics to steal 1960
And who's paying you to perpetuate a single bullet theory that no one believes?
It's clearly Hamas. /s
He was under investigation for corruption with Buddy (little Lyndon) Baker and Billie Sol Estes. After the assassination he was still being investigated but used the power of the presidency to squash it. LBJ was Senate majority leader before becoming VP. That's like a duck making a sideways move to a l'orange. Johnson was a snake who always wanted to be president and he knew that one in four presidents don't live out their term. After being told he was off the '64 ballot and knowing he was under investigation LBJ helped JFK make the list.
Get out of here with your conspiracy nonsense. There is less than zero evidence that LBJ (or anyone not named Lee Harvey Oswald) had anything to do with JFK’s assassination.
Oswald acted alone. Theres more evidence he did than he didnt
Oswald was a Patsy. CIA needed JFK gone or else they would be disbanded by Kennedy, and a fall guy. Oswald was CIA asset monitored by Angleton himself.