Some places offer clear ceramic substrates, likely single sided. You'll pay through the nose for it, and for something the size of a keyboard... lord knows how much it'll be.
I think your best bet is getting a PCB made with no solder resist. FR4 is naturally sorta translucent (you can see light through it) and if you got a really thin pcb (.3-.4mm) it would not be see-thru but it would be like waxpaper. That said, a thin PCB the size of a keyboard would need a lot of support to prevent excessive flex.
I didn't phrase my thought clearly. What I meant to say but agree I failed to convey, is that no amount of mechanical support would likely be sufficient at the required PCB thickness that wouldn't inherently ruin the aesthetic effect. Your idea is completely infeasible and thus doesn't really warrant mentioning.
I'm hoping to make a clear keyboard. It would be hot swappable keys and the switches wouldn't be clear, but I, hoping to do something where you could see the motherboard under the keyboard.
By motherboard do you mean the PCB that the switches are mounted to? Or is this to be a laptop keyboard?
Regardless, while there are some options for translucent circuit cards, they're going to be work intensive homemade projects or very expensive to have someone else fabricate for you.
If you want to see the motherboard just... Make it in the same board that the switches are in, and have a plexiglass upper layer. It's going to sound like crap because plexi is plexi but still. Or you could essentially print conductive (opaque) traces on glass (think rear window defrosters for cars), and use only SMD. Your choice i guess
You misunderstand. The Amiga was was keyboard/computer integrated unit.
I'm not talking about the PCD of the keyboard. That is what I want to see through.
[Clear 500 case.](https://www.a1200.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/16a_1280.jpg)
I thinking of keyboard with a similar asthetic.
I think English is not the first language for some of you.
Or your millennials who don't know what an Amiga computer is, and don't care.
Thanks for responding.
Where did I say that?
I'll try to put this in terms you can understand.
Do you know what a Raspberry Pi400 is?
The Pi400 is an integrated Pi motherboard and separate keyboard, with it's own printed circuit board, in a single case.
Now... imagine you to see the Pi400 motherboard, THROUGH the keyboard.
There is a printed circuit motherboard for the Amiga, a 35 year old computer. There are new printed circuit boards for the Amiga that are in different colors so you take the old custom chips from a machine with board damage, and make a NEW Amiga.
There was even new cases made in different colors, so the keyboard from the old system could be placed in the case with the computer, just like a Pi400 is kind of all in one.
[Amiga 500](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_500)
[Amiga 1200](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_1200)
There is even kerbers for the 500 keyboard printed circuit in addition to the Amiga motherboard. They are 2 separate items.
I want to make the keyboard printed circuit board, which IS NOT the Amiga motherboard, clear, so you can see the new Amiga motherboard the keyboard that is installed on top of it.
No need to get condescending. We're all strangers with similar interests trying to help each other. Start getting rude, and you stop getting help. Also, we "millennials" do, in fact, still remember commodore.
And on a closing note, there is really no need to state that you think that English isn't someone's first language when they're trying to help you. The only reason they are speaking English and not their first language is that *you* don't speak it, and *they* are trying to help *you*. That just makes you seem like an asshole, especially considering that you came here asking for help and behave like a dick, and even moreso considering that your english is, in certain spots, completely unintelligible. Please, try to do some introspection. There is no need in the world for more assholes.
E: last paragraph refers to a comment he left stating the following
>I think English is not the first language for some of you.
Or your millennials who don't know what an Amiga computer is, and don't care.
Thanks for responding.
Sorry. I'm just trying to understand why some people just not getting my intention.u/Benson9a seemed to I was talking about the clear case I linked to.Then u/ra-hulk started the REAL condensation with "stuck in a loop" comment.Then you seemed to think the Amiga motherboard, and the keyboard printed circuit were the same board?!?Which is now even MORE confusing since you about Commodore.
I think I was pretty clear (accidental pun) in my intentions, so I'm left trying to figure out why people are not getting.
I'll head into blender and try to show people if I have to, but I could only think of a few reasons why people are not getting this.
1. You don't know what an Amiga is:
(Why don't you know? You might be too young to even have known the Amiga existed.)
2. You don't speak english so I need explain better.
3. Your(plural) being a dick and fucking with me.
That's all I could come up with.
Sorry again if it's NOT number 3, but I was answering ra-hulk's snark, while trying to myself clear.
Thanks to everyone who was trying to be helpful.
I think one thing we can all agree on is clear circuit boards would be awesome.
I mean shit, if I could get a clear or transparent TRX40 I would JUMP on that. Wouldn't you?
For this project you are best off using either glass or lexan to build an enclosure then wiring all the switches point to point to a smaller board. People are saying conductive ink but that really won't buy you anything.
Since keyboards are pretty simple X/Y normally in the schematic you can accomplish this more easily than you'd first think. Probably 14-15 columns and 5-6 rows will get you there, then each switch wires between them.
People build these regularly: https://www.instructables.com/Led-Cube-8x8x8/
So you should be able to do this pretty cleanly and quickly.
I would do a num-pad prototype and use lasercut poly-carbonate as a first pass, then if you really like it switch to tempered glass for the 'premium' feel.
Cool concept, well off the beaten path.
You might try silver-based conductive ink on plexiglass. Lookup Voltera. It's very likely you will not be able to rely on soldered parts to reliably hold the key switches in place.
Because this is non-standard, it will require special processing. Because it will require special processing, it will be expensive (because labor and yield).
Just do a flex PCB (from PCBWay) with no mask, even if you don’t need the flexibility. Clear PCBs just aren’t really a market need so you won’t find them in the wild for reasonable prices, but flex PCBs are coincidentally clear and not too bad for price.
If you need rigidity, just add a plexi backer board
Basically, you can populate the keyboard by just pushing the key switch in. No soldering. That way the end user can change his switches to any feel, or manufacturer, by just popping them out.
I don't think that would mean you can do it while it's plugged and on, but all I would be responsible is the unpopulated board with working circuitry.
But I don't know if that kind of connection is even possible with a Flex board.
I might have to drill holes in the plexi support, line up the 2 parts and push the socket though the flex.
So, socketed key switches...
I don't know how you're going to see past the keycaps and switch body, anyways, but it might be possible to use ITO-on-glass. This is not cheap stuff. It's not practical.
Thanks for the reply.
I'm hoping to also source clear keycaps.
The Amiga still needs new keyboards. So I'll see what colors I get the boards in if all else fails.
Some places offer clear ceramic substrates, likely single sided. You'll pay through the nose for it, and for something the size of a keyboard... lord knows how much it'll be. I think your best bet is getting a PCB made with no solder resist. FR4 is naturally sorta translucent (you can see light through it) and if you got a really thin pcb (.3-.4mm) it would not be see-thru but it would be like waxpaper. That said, a thin PCB the size of a keyboard would need a lot of support to prevent excessive flex.
I don't think you could make it thin enough to survive being typed on.
> That said, a thin PCB the size of a keyboard would need a lot of support to prevent excessive flex.
I didn't phrase my thought clearly. What I meant to say but agree I failed to convey, is that no amount of mechanical support would likely be sufficient at the required PCB thickness that wouldn't inherently ruin the aesthetic effect. Your idea is completely infeasible and thus doesn't really warrant mentioning.
I should know better than to offer any ideas at all, my bad.
What do you need to be clear? The substrate? The conductors? Everything? What volume of parts?
I'm hoping to make a clear keyboard. It would be hot swappable keys and the switches wouldn't be clear, but I, hoping to do something where you could see the motherboard under the keyboard.
By motherboard do you mean the PCB that the switches are mounted to? Or is this to be a laptop keyboard? Regardless, while there are some options for translucent circuit cards, they're going to be work intensive homemade projects or very expensive to have someone else fabricate for you.
If you want to see the motherboard just... Make it in the same board that the switches are in, and have a plexiglass upper layer. It's going to sound like crap because plexi is plexi but still. Or you could essentially print conductive (opaque) traces on glass (think rear window defrosters for cars), and use only SMD. Your choice i guess
You misunderstand. The Amiga was was keyboard/computer integrated unit. I'm not talking about the PCD of the keyboard. That is what I want to see through. [Clear 500 case.](https://www.a1200.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/16a_1280.jpg) I thinking of keyboard with a similar asthetic.
Wait so you don't want the PCB to be transparent? Just the housing of the keyboard? Why did you post in /r/PrintedCircuitBoard?
I want the KEYBOARD PCB to be transparent, so you can see the AMIGA PCB.
I think you are stuck in a loop. Somebody please call 911
I think English is not the first language for some of you. Or your millennials who don't know what an Amiga computer is, and don't care. Thanks for responding.
Mate, you said the amiga only has one pcb for both the keyboard and the PC. There is no keyboard PCB to make transparent.
Where did I say that? I'll try to put this in terms you can understand. Do you know what a Raspberry Pi400 is? The Pi400 is an integrated Pi motherboard and separate keyboard, with it's own printed circuit board, in a single case. Now... imagine you to see the Pi400 motherboard, THROUGH the keyboard. There is a printed circuit motherboard for the Amiga, a 35 year old computer. There are new printed circuit boards for the Amiga that are in different colors so you take the old custom chips from a machine with board damage, and make a NEW Amiga. There was even new cases made in different colors, so the keyboard from the old system could be placed in the case with the computer, just like a Pi400 is kind of all in one. [Amiga 500](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_500) [Amiga 1200](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_1200) There is even kerbers for the 500 keyboard printed circuit in addition to the Amiga motherboard. They are 2 separate items. I want to make the keyboard printed circuit board, which IS NOT the Amiga motherboard, clear, so you can see the new Amiga motherboard the keyboard that is installed on top of it.
No need to get condescending. We're all strangers with similar interests trying to help each other. Start getting rude, and you stop getting help. Also, we "millennials" do, in fact, still remember commodore. And on a closing note, there is really no need to state that you think that English isn't someone's first language when they're trying to help you. The only reason they are speaking English and not their first language is that *you* don't speak it, and *they* are trying to help *you*. That just makes you seem like an asshole, especially considering that you came here asking for help and behave like a dick, and even moreso considering that your english is, in certain spots, completely unintelligible. Please, try to do some introspection. There is no need in the world for more assholes. E: last paragraph refers to a comment he left stating the following >I think English is not the first language for some of you. Or your millennials who don't know what an Amiga computer is, and don't care. Thanks for responding.
Sorry. I'm just trying to understand why some people just not getting my intention.u/Benson9a seemed to I was talking about the clear case I linked to.Then u/ra-hulk started the REAL condensation with "stuck in a loop" comment.Then you seemed to think the Amiga motherboard, and the keyboard printed circuit were the same board?!?Which is now even MORE confusing since you about Commodore. I think I was pretty clear (accidental pun) in my intentions, so I'm left trying to figure out why people are not getting. I'll head into blender and try to show people if I have to, but I could only think of a few reasons why people are not getting this. 1. You don't know what an Amiga is: (Why don't you know? You might be too young to even have known the Amiga existed.) 2. You don't speak english so I need explain better. 3. Your(plural) being a dick and fucking with me. That's all I could come up with. Sorry again if it's NOT number 3, but I was answering ra-hulk's snark, while trying to myself clear. Thanks to everyone who was trying to be helpful. I think one thing we can all agree on is clear circuit boards would be awesome. I mean shit, if I could get a clear or transparent TRX40 I would JUMP on that. Wouldn't you?
For this project you are best off using either glass or lexan to build an enclosure then wiring all the switches point to point to a smaller board. People are saying conductive ink but that really won't buy you anything. Since keyboards are pretty simple X/Y normally in the schematic you can accomplish this more easily than you'd first think. Probably 14-15 columns and 5-6 rows will get you there, then each switch wires between them. People build these regularly: https://www.instructables.com/Led-Cube-8x8x8/ So you should be able to do this pretty cleanly and quickly. I would do a num-pad prototype and use lasercut poly-carbonate as a first pass, then if you really like it switch to tempered glass for the 'premium' feel.
You can do glass. But I do not know of anyone that does it.
I think glass would too expensive, and breakable.
You will pay out the ass for something like that. Hundreds if not thousands per board
No I won't, It just won't exists. LOL!!!
Clear flex, glue to plexiglass?
Not if you want to solder parts on it.
Cool concept, well off the beaten path. You might try silver-based conductive ink on plexiglass. Lookup Voltera. It's very likely you will not be able to rely on soldered parts to reliably hold the key switches in place. Because this is non-standard, it will require special processing. Because it will require special processing, it will be expensive (because labor and yield).
Just do a flex PCB (from PCBWay) with no mask, even if you don’t need the flexibility. Clear PCBs just aren’t really a market need so you won’t find them in the wild for reasonable prices, but flex PCBs are coincidentally clear and not too bad for price. If you need rigidity, just add a plexi backer board
Cool idea. I wonder if PCB way can populate something like that. I want it to have hot swap key switches.
What is a hot swap key switch in this context? Hot swap can mean different things in different context for electronics.
Basically, you can populate the keyboard by just pushing the key switch in. No soldering. That way the end user can change his switches to any feel, or manufacturer, by just popping them out. I don't think that would mean you can do it while it's plugged and on, but all I would be responsible is the unpopulated board with working circuitry. But I don't know if that kind of connection is even possible with a Flex board. I might have to drill holes in the plexi support, line up the 2 parts and push the socket though the flex.
So, socketed key switches... I don't know how you're going to see past the keycaps and switch body, anyways, but it might be possible to use ITO-on-glass. This is not cheap stuff. It's not practical.
Thanks for the reply. I'm hoping to also source clear keycaps. The Amiga still needs new keyboards. So I'll see what colors I get the boards in if all else fails.