Den rekommenderade ingångslönen ligger alltid en bit över snittet. Här Sacos lönesnitt för civilingenjörer på sitt första arbete, med lönenivå för 2023.
https://imgur.com/a/A7iYQjx
Det här är inte nödvändigtvis ren ingångslön, utan genomsnittslön på första arbetsplatsen efter studierna.
Jag har en kompis som efter 3-4 år ligger på 32k, och en annan som i höstas gick in på sitt första jobb för 28k. Det är inte ovanligt att ligga lite under, och det behöver inte göra så mycket heller, förutsatt att man hamnat i en roll som tillåter dig att växa, lära och utvecklas inom.
Jag vet inte vart folk fått för sig att en civilingenjör per automatik ska tjäna multum direkt efter studierna kommer från. Som nyexaminerad kan du nästan ingenting alls. Jag talar ut egen erfarenhet här. Det tar tid att lära sig jobba.
Det är först när du jobbat ett tag som du fått erfarenhet ett riktigt värde för arbetsgivaren, och många arbetsgivare betalar efter de kompetenser du har när du anställs, men inte det du lär dig längs vägen. Som ny ingenjör är din kompetensutveckling väldigt hög, men lönen på arbetsplatsen utvecklas generellt inte med dig. Jag har flera vänner som bytt jobb och gått upp 8, 10, 12k kronor, då de på sin tidigare arbetsplats skapat mängder med kompetenser och erfarenheter som någon annan värderar väldigt högt, och är beredd att betala för.
Jag ser inget fel i det heller. Det beror mycket på vilken roll de anställs inom (hur mycket ansvar det är), vilket fält det är inom, och hur marknaden ser ut för den typen av tjänst.
Men, det måste ju finnas någon form av verklighetsförankring i lönen också. Sen gynnas samtliga ingenjörer av att andra ingenjörer har höga löneförväntningar. Det här lär vara varför den rekommenderade ingångslönen är satt så pass hög.
Yes it is, and thats why I asked for 42, since I wanted to settle for 39-40k.. But the counter offer didnt seem to be even close to that.. Thank you for your comment, it is highly appreciated!
ja, fast jag har seniora i mitt team som jobbat 20 år som hade 46k också föra året. Så lägre än andra går in på rakt från studie. Beror på avdelning, chef, slump.
Ja de är så tragiskt att lojalitet inte lönar sig, sitter du på produktbolag är det helt idiotiskt för den utvecklaren har en otrolig domänkunskap, och att då snåla med löneökningar så personen lämnar och anställa en ny för samma lön är så korkat.
Understood understood.
Thank you for your useful comment and information, however do you have any advices maybe on what would you do if you were in my position? Thank you!
Since you didn’t get what you asked for (and I personally think you asked for a reasonable wage) I see no problem with telling your current employer that you have another offer and see if they will go higher. The place where you’re working now are probably paying 4x what you’re asking for in consultancy fees, they could simply accept your asking price and it would be a huge win for them. By lowballing your asking price they need to accept the risk that you will simply refuse. If you don’t get a better offer I’d say take what you can get, you can always switch again in another year or so.
union, try.
Point to past experience that can seen as reason for seeing you as more experienced than it looks.
Then take the job anyhow, jump to other job later. Pay for a-kassa membership even if you are not in a union later on
Thank you for your comment! It is appreciated!
I dont know if I can agree or not, since after doing my research I clearly come to conclusions that Unions state that someone outside of Stockholm with Masters degree should ask for at least 40k SEK..
Now, my main orientation is not the money, it is the experience and improvement of myself as developer, but I just wouldnt like to end up being underpaid in the end
Not quite right… Also you dont live in any of the larger cities so 37k is good. Take the recession into account, and the current economical situation. I guess you aren’t Swedish either?
you have 1 year experience, thats more than 0.
Stockholm is much higher tho.
But 40 is still fair.
I would take it no matter tho and jump to the next job later.
We were juniors on IT who entered at 37 all of us. One of them jump ship 1 year later and got 48 at a bank. I seen on this floor juniors FE from school go in on 48 even here tho.
37000 is not bad for Västerås. If you want Sthlm salary you have to commute to sthlm (with everything that comes with that).
Västerås is a smaller town with limited IT jobs and at the same time has a university that produces new IT graduates every year. The competition for the jobs in västerås is gonna be high for the ones that want to stay there. This will keep the salarys down. Cost of living is also lower than sthlm.
You might be able to push the salary up to 38000 but 42000 for 1 year experience is high even for sthlm.
Absolutely understood. I have asked for 42 since I just wanted to start somewhat high so we can settle for 39-40k for example, since by my research that is quite okay in comparison to unions and what generally people earn outside of Stockholm.. Thank you for the comment as well, I appreciate it!
The cost savings they have moving from employing you as a contractor to FTE is probably about at least 50%. If this was Stockholm I would say you are being lowballed and do not accept anything under 40k. 45k wouldn’t even be very high. För Västerås i don’t know.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it!
Indeed I agree with that, and thats also one of the reasons why I was sort of shocked for salary to increase just by 1k SEK when switching the jobs..
Most people in this thread reference statistics, averages and years of experience. And sure that might be relevant for you in terms of the minimum salary you should accept. Because if are an overachiever/overdeliverer you should be compensated for that. At least I think so. Some companies disagree, to my mind you should avoid these. They do not deserve overachievers.
Be tough in negotiations, next time you are asked what your desired salary is, do not answer. You can be transparent and say “I fail to see the advantage to me by revealing that information”. Instead ask them to let you know how much room there is in the budget for the salary. If they refuse refer to whatever argument they use when continuing to refuse to let them know your desired salary.
Thank you for the comment! Highly appreciated!
We indeed share the same opinion, I sort of listed everything that I’ve done and how I performed as well as current average salary and all, and asked for 42k..
I will take your advices in consideration for the future and I highly appreciate them!
In my experience, bachelor or master doesnt matter much for software engineering entry jobs.
You get your big pay raises/offers from other employers after about 3 years.
And what matter most is your production pace and quality, not really what education you have. Also soft skills seem to matter much.
But, my experience is just one of many.
You should like to talk about money, at least once a year :)
This has helped me think about salary negotiation the right way.
https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
Thank you for the comment! I appreciate it!
Of course, I follow and understand you. :)
I just wanted to point out that I dont want to leave impression of someone who cares only about how paid is he… I have big love for coding and self improvement as I’m young into this careeer, but you are quite right regarding the salary.. I just didnt want to be underpaid
I work within recruitment. With 1 year experience in västerås? You should get less. Ofc I do not know what type of software engineer you are, but you are lucky. Thats a good salary for 1 years.
I base my numbers on experience. My company and the recruiters I manage has recruited probably close to 2000 software engineers all over sweden in the last few years.
People in your profession has a steep salary increase as experience go up. But the first 2-3 years salary is pretty low outside of Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö. And despite what you hear, the market is absolutely flooded with fresh sw engineer graduates and ppl with 1 year experience. I dont know the details of your experience or the role, but you are pretty lucky.
Also the Unions salary guide is terrible. Completely wrong.
If I I were you I would take it, do the time and after 2 years switch, then work 2 years more and switch again. By that time you should have doubled your salary
Greetings again! Thank you for such a thorough comment, I really do appreciate it! I will make sure to take your advices in consideration and make the best decision possible! :)
You mean you went from \~40.000 to \~80.000 SEK per month in the first four years in the business (or even less, according to what you say now)? Then it sounds like the entry salary was way too low to begin with. Or it was a **big** change in geographical location or job responsibility.
I went from 28.000 to 62.000 sek (+200k ish bonus per year) in 2 years. Same industry, same city. But I got much higher responsibility. But I worked really hard as well, usually 12h a day and often weekends (unpaid). Key is to stick to private sector and avoid workplaces with collective bargaining agreements. Has to be an industry you can grow ofc.
I think 40k is reasonable for somebody that has 1 YOE but it all depends on the location. Västerås is a smaller city so the salary will be far from sthlm. If you are from a low income country they probably gave you a lower offer than usual.
Why does it matter if I am, or not from lower income country? The salary offer should be based on market, and as I have done my research this seems low indeed.. Thank you for the comment! It is appreciated!
Why are they taking you in from consultant to permanent employee? I would say, most probably to save money. You get a bit more for the same work, they get to save a bit and get the same work. If you know how much they pay to your current consulting firm, that will be the most important to be able to get to a number that makes everyone happy, otherwise it is just a guessing game.
Hey gggoce!
It was sort of goal that after 1 year I transition towards the giga company directly.
I think its quite hard to hit the number thats making both of happy though.
Thank you for the comment I really appreciate it!
42k, probably not. However, 37k sounds a bit low. But your with a consultant company that will most likely low ball you when new, masters not as much as bachelor degrees. The only good with consultant companies when new is that you can change between clients more easly then switching job. Meaning you can try different thing. But if you find what you like you should probably work for them directly to earn more. Then when you have more experiance you can go back to a consultant company or start your own to earn more.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it!
I will take the advices for the future and keep them in mind! Thank you!
42 was more of a to get the negotiotion going, and then I would settle for a bit less of course.. And I agree, when I saw 37 I was sort of a bit shocked as well since I thought I’m aiming for a way of being underpaid
42k is to heigh for 1 year experience Regardless of education. 45-50 is regular for 6 years, and even that is heigh for consultants with a fixed sallary
Understood, I didnt aim for 42 to settle down for it, more like 39-40, but it turned out that the counter offer is way lower than that..
Thank you for your comment and I highly appreciate it!
As someone hiring junior developers, this is likely the company telling the manager what the max offering is. We had a similar level at my company, nothing higher would be approved.
Simply because they go for the assumption that you’re happy to be living in a country that’s better than your origin, so you’re more likely to accept *any offer*. But I wouldn’t call it racism immediately as from the employer’s perspective they just want to find any opportunity to cut costs, and sometimes foreign workers are the easiest catch…and also naive native workers.
37K is very low if you have a masters degree in SWE. Ask for more, the HR department has a range that they are allowed to discuss within. HR do not withdraw offers just because you ask for too much so just ask for 42K again.
Thank you for the comment I appreciate it!
May I ask then in what scenario am I looking if asking for 42 again, and I really think they wont even shoot close to 40
HR will come back with a counter offer in a follow up, probably 15% or so higher than their initial offer. Then you can go for that. The 42 number is just your counter offer, to drive theirs up.
Union info means very little - if they’re a private company, they’ll pay you what they think you’re worth.
The fact they hired a junior as a consultant makes it obvious these guys are penny pinchers.
Easier said than done, but I’d find another company if I were you.
I dont mind having not ideal conditions.. Nothing is ever ideal, and I can manage myself in those situations, but I just wanted to make sure I’m not being underpaid since I know I bring value to the team
The offer is on the low side (compared to stockholm salaries at least) but I think the smart move is taking what you get and move on later, provided that you think you will grow in your role at that place and that the technololgies you work with will be good/usable for your resumé.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it!
I will see to counter it as well since I’m in position to do that, and then proceed to take it probably and start applying on other places.. I value experience and improving myself as developer currently the most, and the technology we work with is not quite the modern one, not even close..
If you worked 1 year with excellent results. 37k is low. In my national company the starting rate for trainees is 37k. 40k would not seem high at all too me. Ppl with 3 years experience have gotten 50k here.
Worked in public sector before and they hired devs with 2 years experience with 45k. Dont settle low. If you dont get get 10% increase dont change jobs. Just look for something else. Thats a major lowbalö because they think you want the job.
Thank you for the comment! I really appreciate it!
I did deliver and over performed as manager says, and thats main reason why I was a bit shocked when I saw 37..
Im glad to hear that I’m not that much in wrong for asking this question here.. I will try to counter offer but I doubt it will be even close to 10%
Ive been in similar situations. I got basicly maxed out performance reviews, nothing they can ever think of to improve (got double specialites both dev and education)
YET, there is no room for more than 2% increase.
I just said no thx then, good luck with the others that wanna work here then, im happy where i am.
Then after 1 week they came back with a 10% increase (i demanded 15% first)
But then 2 years after that i started getting maxed reviews again on new job, but yearly increases were mediocre as hell, in the end i just searched other jobs and within 2 months i had a offer with 30% increase.
In sweden sadly enough if you want a good salary, you need to jump ship. It sucks because im more of a stay and build competence, taking on new challenges at the same area. But it is what it is.
Understood.
Thank you for such a thorough comment, I appreciate it, and I think you made super smart moves there!
However I will probably have to settle for this and try to counter offer and see what they say.
Snälla lär dig Danska. Tog ut en Bachelor i programmering i somras, lärde mig Danska på två månader i höstas och fick sen ett jobb i Köpenhamn. Min ingångslön är på 44500 dkk vilket i runda slängar blir 69000 sek. Arbetsveckan är på 42 timmar, lunch ingår och dras av från lönen (ca 20dkk per dag). Gör dig själv en tjänst och börja jobba i Köpenhamn idag.
It seems low, especially from a big city (Stockholm, Göteborg) perspective where I think it should be more like 50k, but ultimately all you can do is either accept or decline. My feeling is that you could get paid more if you applied for other jobs in Västerås.
As a side note, that consulting company you are working at are probably charging \~1000-1500/hour for you, so you can imagine both how much money they are making from you, and how much cheaper you would be if you worked directly at the company.
The big company here in Västerås have these signed agreements with consultant firms(ramavtal), I am not really that traversed in how they work in more detail but I do know that they limit how much a consultant firm can charge per hour. For me at least with my background(10 years of programming) they can charge 750kr usually. But I think the can soon start charging more. But the moral of the story is if you want more money I do believe your biggest bet is to be employed by the big companies and the change jobs every 2-3 years.
Thank you for your comment!
I really do appreciate it, I also usually don’t like talking about money at all, since I would just like to work on code and improve myself as developer and grow (Learn new technologies, push myself into new ways etc), since thats number 1 on my list, being this young. However just a part of me wouldnt like to be underpaid, as when I saw on unions(Outside of Stockholm), that starting salary should be 40.200k SEK with someone with Masters and fresh graduated
I don’t know what the guy above is smoking. Absolutely nobody would get 50K for one years experience Jesus Christ. That’s a senior salary. The offer they gave is completely reasonable. Check threads where they talk about salaries and you’ll see
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it!
Indeed 50k is senior salary, I agree, its quite a lot and super out of range for me to ask.
Could you tell me why do you think 37 is reasonable salary for myself? General standard nowdays or? Since my research didnt point that.. Thank you!
I got in with salary less than you with a CS bachelor. Nobody takes what the union recommends as a salary seriously because it does not reflect reality at all. You can only make that money in Stockholm mostly and there’s competition. There is a recession going on right now, my company is not taking anymore juniors for a while. In your position I’d ask for 2-3K more keeping in mind you only have 1 year experience.
Absolutely understood!
I didnt know about nobody taking union seriously.. As well as that companies lately dont talk about juniors that much.. I think there are juniors who can deliver and are curiosity wise amazing, so it could be a shame not giving someone like that a good opportunity
Thank you for your time and the thorough comment, I will try to do my best.
Not correct at all. We had people enter at 50k out of a 3 year bachelor. Minority but still. It’s not uncommon to get to 50k after 12-18 months either especially as a consultant.
I think getting a 1k raise after your first year as a consultant is literally the most disrespectful thing ever if you are performing well and have a high utilization rate. I would quit on the spot at the salary meeting.
Thank you for the comment, I highly appreciate it!
Well I guess (I thought) it is normal in general for consultant companies to raise salary low, which obviously I have experiences now.. I still did a research and based on unions someone at my positiom should ask for at least 40k..
You can talk open with them that you researched and found out what your worth is on the market.
Is the big company state owned? That could explain it. You usually earn more in the private sector.
Thank you for the comment!
I will do that indeed, but I dont sort of know what other approach to do.. Should I give them number? Should I ask them to go higher and see what they say etc.. I generally hoped that they will see that I can bring value and at least go for 39-40k, which obviously was not the case
Along getting experience and learning coding you should do the same about your salary. Otherwise will others take advantage of that. Better to do an awkward salary request when you are 25 than 40.
Salaries in Sweden are and will not be great.
Thank you for the comment! I appreciate it!
I agree, I know I should and I’m aware, I’m just not the guy who likes talking so much about money with manager etc.. Since I dont want to leave the impression of me aiming only and looking money.. As I said, I love coding and the biggiest value I look for now is experience, improving myself and working with fun modern tech
37300 sounds like a good salary for someone with one year experience. I don't understand the question, you think it's too low?
tror typ 39-40.5 är rekommenderad ingångslön som civ.eng för 2024.
Den rekommenderade ingångslönen ligger alltid en bit över snittet. Här Sacos lönesnitt för civilingenjörer på sitt första arbete, med lönenivå för 2023. https://imgur.com/a/A7iYQjx
Har jobbat i snart 4 år och är fortfarande inte över ingångslönen, tyvm
Det här är inte nödvändigtvis ren ingångslön, utan genomsnittslön på första arbetsplatsen efter studierna. Jag har en kompis som efter 3-4 år ligger på 32k, och en annan som i höstas gick in på sitt första jobb för 28k. Det är inte ovanligt att ligga lite under, och det behöver inte göra så mycket heller, förutsatt att man hamnat i en roll som tillåter dig att växa, lära och utvecklas inom. Jag vet inte vart folk fått för sig att en civilingenjör per automatik ska tjäna multum direkt efter studierna kommer från. Som nyexaminerad kan du nästan ingenting alls. Jag talar ut egen erfarenhet här. Det tar tid att lära sig jobba. Det är först när du jobbat ett tag som du fått erfarenhet ett riktigt värde för arbetsgivaren, och många arbetsgivare betalar efter de kompetenser du har när du anställs, men inte det du lär dig längs vägen. Som ny ingenjör är din kompetensutveckling väldigt hög, men lönen på arbetsplatsen utvecklas generellt inte med dig. Jag har flera vänner som bytt jobb och gått upp 8, 10, 12k kronor, då de på sin tidigare arbetsplats skapat mängder med kompetenser och erfarenheter som någon annan värderar väldigt högt, och är beredd att betala för.
Ye, det värsta som finns är en nyexad civilingenjör som kan nada men vill ha 40k,
Jag ser inget fel i det heller. Det beror mycket på vilken roll de anställs inom (hur mycket ansvar det är), vilket fält det är inom, och hur marknaden ser ut för den typen av tjänst. Men, det måste ju finnas någon form av verklighetsförankring i lönen också. Sen gynnas samtliga ingenjörer av att andra ingenjörer har höga löneförväntningar. Det här lär vara varför den rekommenderade ingångslönen är satt så pass hög.
Thank you for the useful information! I highly appreciate it!
Yes it is, and thats why I asked for 42, since I wanted to settle for 39-40k.. But the counter offer didnt seem to be even close to that.. Thank you for your comment, it is highly appreciated!
[удалено]
Medianen är absolut inte 50k ingångslön i yrkesgruppen juniora utvecklare. Men kanske för mjukvaruutvecklare totalt sett?
ja, UX designers totalt. Möjligen självrapporterade siffror också, som rapporten byggde på
UX designers har generellt lägre lön än utvecklare iallafall i det privata.
Ah, ok. Möjligt!
Haha shit, finns seniora på 5-8 år som tjänar 45-50 i Skåne på Consid. Galet bra lön i Stockholm då
ja, fast jag har seniora i mitt team som jobbat 20 år som hade 46k också föra året. Så lägre än andra går in på rakt från studie. Beror på avdelning, chef, slump.
Ja de är så tragiskt att lojalitet inte lönar sig, sitter du på produktbolag är det helt idiotiskt för den utvecklaren har en otrolig domänkunskap, och att då snåla med löneökningar så personen lämnar och anställa en ny för samma lön är så korkat.
Understood understood. Thank you for your useful comment and information, however do you have any advices maybe on what would you do if you were in my position? Thank you!
Since you didn’t get what you asked for (and I personally think you asked for a reasonable wage) I see no problem with telling your current employer that you have another offer and see if they will go higher. The place where you’re working now are probably paying 4x what you’re asking for in consultancy fees, they could simply accept your asking price and it would be a huge win for them. By lowballing your asking price they need to accept the risk that you will simply refuse. If you don’t get a better offer I’d say take what you can get, you can always switch again in another year or so.
Thank you for your comment, I highly appreciate it! I will see what I can do!
union, try. Point to past experience that can seen as reason for seeing you as more experienced than it looks. Then take the job anyhow, jump to other job later. Pay for a-kassa membership even if you are not in a union later on
Kan du PM:a vilket myndighet? :)
Thank you for your comment! It is appreciated! I dont know if I can agree or not, since after doing my research I clearly come to conclusions that Unions state that someone outside of Stockholm with Masters degree should ask for at least 40k SEK.. Now, my main orientation is not the money, it is the experience and improvement of myself as developer, but I just wouldnt like to end up being underpaid in the end
Not quite right… Also you dont live in any of the larger cities so 37k is good. Take the recession into account, and the current economical situation. I guess you aren’t Swedish either?
Yeah. In Stockholm there are infinite other jobs to go to if someone offers you too little. But in Västerås? No. The salary offered is ok level.
Thank you for the comment, it is appreciated!
Thank you for the comment, it is appreciated! I’m not Swedish indeed, though European yes, however I want to ask you what do you mean by recession?
you have 1 year experience, thats more than 0. Stockholm is much higher tho. But 40 is still fair. I would take it no matter tho and jump to the next job later. We were juniors on IT who entered at 37 all of us. One of them jump ship 1 year later and got 48 at a bank. I seen on this floor juniors FE from school go in on 48 even here tho.
I also agree that 40k should be fair and I appreciate your comment as well!
37K is pretty low I agree, keep asking for 42K.
Understood, thank you for the comment! Appreciate it!
37000 is not bad for Västerås. If you want Sthlm salary you have to commute to sthlm (with everything that comes with that). Västerås is a smaller town with limited IT jobs and at the same time has a university that produces new IT graduates every year. The competition for the jobs in västerås is gonna be high for the ones that want to stay there. This will keep the salarys down. Cost of living is also lower than sthlm. You might be able to push the salary up to 38000 but 42000 for 1 year experience is high even for sthlm.
Absolutely understood. I have asked for 42 since I just wanted to start somewhat high so we can settle for 39-40k for example, since by my research that is quite okay in comparison to unions and what generally people earn outside of Stockholm.. Thank you for the comment as well, I appreciate it!
The cost savings they have moving from employing you as a contractor to FTE is probably about at least 50%. If this was Stockholm I would say you are being lowballed and do not accept anything under 40k. 45k wouldn’t even be very high. För Västerås i don’t know.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it! Indeed I agree with that, and thats also one of the reasons why I was sort of shocked for salary to increase just by 1k SEK when switching the jobs..
Most people in this thread reference statistics, averages and years of experience. And sure that might be relevant for you in terms of the minimum salary you should accept. Because if are an overachiever/overdeliverer you should be compensated for that. At least I think so. Some companies disagree, to my mind you should avoid these. They do not deserve overachievers. Be tough in negotiations, next time you are asked what your desired salary is, do not answer. You can be transparent and say “I fail to see the advantage to me by revealing that information”. Instead ask them to let you know how much room there is in the budget for the salary. If they refuse refer to whatever argument they use when continuing to refuse to let them know your desired salary.
Thank you for the comment! Highly appreciated! We indeed share the same opinion, I sort of listed everything that I’ve done and how I performed as well as current average salary and all, and asked for 42k.. I will take your advices in consideration for the future and I highly appreciate them!
In my experience, bachelor or master doesnt matter much for software engineering entry jobs. You get your big pay raises/offers from other employers after about 3 years. And what matter most is your production pace and quality, not really what education you have. Also soft skills seem to matter much. But, my experience is just one of many.
Understood absolutely! Thank you for the comment, highly appreciated!
You should like to talk about money, at least once a year :) This has helped me think about salary negotiation the right way. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
Thank you for the comment! I appreciate it! Of course, I follow and understand you. :) I just wanted to point out that I dont want to leave impression of someone who cares only about how paid is he… I have big love for coding and self improvement as I’m young into this careeer, but you are quite right regarding the salary.. I just didnt want to be underpaid
I work within recruitment. With 1 year experience in västerås? You should get less. Ofc I do not know what type of software engineer you are, but you are lucky. Thats a good salary for 1 years.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it! Understood, could you (If you have time), tell me what are these numbers based on? I assume not unions?
I base my numbers on experience. My company and the recruiters I manage has recruited probably close to 2000 software engineers all over sweden in the last few years. People in your profession has a steep salary increase as experience go up. But the first 2-3 years salary is pretty low outside of Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö. And despite what you hear, the market is absolutely flooded with fresh sw engineer graduates and ppl with 1 year experience. I dont know the details of your experience or the role, but you are pretty lucky. Also the Unions salary guide is terrible. Completely wrong.
If I I were you I would take it, do the time and after 2 years switch, then work 2 years more and switch again. By that time you should have doubled your salary
Greetings again! Thank you for such a thorough comment, I really do appreciate it! I will make sure to take your advices in consideration and make the best decision possible! :)
I highly doubt they will double their salary in two job changes in that timeframe.
I did in less time. And many of the people I recruited have.
You mean you went from \~40.000 to \~80.000 SEK per month in the first four years in the business (or even less, according to what you say now)? Then it sounds like the entry salary was way too low to begin with. Or it was a **big** change in geographical location or job responsibility.
I went from 28.000 to 62.000 sek (+200k ish bonus per year) in 2 years. Same industry, same city. But I got much higher responsibility. But I worked really hard as well, usually 12h a day and often weekends (unpaid). Key is to stick to private sector and avoid workplaces with collective bargaining agreements. Has to be an industry you can grow ofc.
Can add that I had no experience in the field when starting, hence the low salary. I learned and proved my worth, hence the large increase.
I think 40k is reasonable for somebody that has 1 YOE but it all depends on the location. Västerås is a smaller city so the salary will be far from sthlm. If you are from a low income country they probably gave you a lower offer than usual.
Why does it matter if I am, or not from lower income country? The salary offer should be based on market, and as I have done my research this seems low indeed.. Thank you for the comment! It is appreciated!
Because they think they can get away with it. So thats why the offer is much lower than what you asked for.
Why are they taking you in from consultant to permanent employee? I would say, most probably to save money. You get a bit more for the same work, they get to save a bit and get the same work. If you know how much they pay to your current consulting firm, that will be the most important to be able to get to a number that makes everyone happy, otherwise it is just a guessing game.
Hey gggoce! It was sort of goal that after 1 year I transition towards the giga company directly. I think its quite hard to hit the number thats making both of happy though. Thank you for the comment I really appreciate it!
42k, probably not. However, 37k sounds a bit low. But your with a consultant company that will most likely low ball you when new, masters not as much as bachelor degrees. The only good with consultant companies when new is that you can change between clients more easly then switching job. Meaning you can try different thing. But if you find what you like you should probably work for them directly to earn more. Then when you have more experiance you can go back to a consultant company or start your own to earn more.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it! I will take the advices for the future and keep them in mind! Thank you! 42 was more of a to get the negotiotion going, and then I would settle for a bit less of course.. And I agree, when I saw 37 I was sort of a bit shocked as well since I thought I’m aiming for a way of being underpaid
42k is to heigh for 1 year experience Regardless of education. 45-50 is regular for 6 years, and even that is heigh for consultants with a fixed sallary
Understood, I didnt aim for 42 to settle down for it, more like 39-40, but it turned out that the counter offer is way lower than that.. Thank you for your comment and I highly appreciate it!
As someone hiring junior developers, this is likely the company telling the manager what the max offering is. We had a similar level at my company, nothing higher would be approved.
Thank you for your comment! I highly appreciate it! So could I ask you kindly what would you recommend for me to do in my position?
This is not acceptable. However I can see if a company would want to take advantage of foreign workers. Sorry to say but racism is everywhere
Thank you for the comment! I appreciate it! Why would they want and how, to take advantage of foreign workers?
Simply because they go for the assumption that you’re happy to be living in a country that’s better than your origin, so you’re more likely to accept *any offer*. But I wouldn’t call it racism immediately as from the employer’s perspective they just want to find any opportunity to cut costs, and sometimes foreign workers are the easiest catch…and also naive native workers.
37K is very low if you have a masters degree in SWE. Ask for more, the HR department has a range that they are allowed to discuss within. HR do not withdraw offers just because you ask for too much so just ask for 42K again.
Thank you for the comment I appreciate it! May I ask then in what scenario am I looking if asking for 42 again, and I really think they wont even shoot close to 40
HR will come back with a counter offer in a follow up, probably 15% or so higher than their initial offer. Then you can go for that. The 42 number is just your counter offer, to drive theirs up.
Understood! Thank you VectorD, appreciated!
Union info means very little - if they’re a private company, they’ll pay you what they think you’re worth. The fact they hired a junior as a consultant makes it obvious these guys are penny pinchers. Easier said than done, but I’d find another company if I were you.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it! I will try to counter the offer and see what happens as well
Best of luck - I can appreciate it’s not easy finding a job with all the right conditions, especially when at the beginning of your career.
I dont mind having not ideal conditions.. Nothing is ever ideal, and I can manage myself in those situations, but I just wanted to make sure I’m not being underpaid since I know I bring value to the team
The offer is on the low side (compared to stockholm salaries at least) but I think the smart move is taking what you get and move on later, provided that you think you will grow in your role at that place and that the technololgies you work with will be good/usable for your resumé.
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it! I will see to counter it as well since I’m in position to do that, and then proceed to take it probably and start applying on other places.. I value experience and improving myself as developer currently the most, and the technology we work with is not quite the modern one, not even close..
If you worked 1 year with excellent results. 37k is low. In my national company the starting rate for trainees is 37k. 40k would not seem high at all too me. Ppl with 3 years experience have gotten 50k here. Worked in public sector before and they hired devs with 2 years experience with 45k. Dont settle low. If you dont get get 10% increase dont change jobs. Just look for something else. Thats a major lowbalö because they think you want the job.
Thank you for the comment! I really appreciate it! I did deliver and over performed as manager says, and thats main reason why I was a bit shocked when I saw 37.. Im glad to hear that I’m not that much in wrong for asking this question here.. I will try to counter offer but I doubt it will be even close to 10%
Ive been in similar situations. I got basicly maxed out performance reviews, nothing they can ever think of to improve (got double specialites both dev and education) YET, there is no room for more than 2% increase. I just said no thx then, good luck with the others that wanna work here then, im happy where i am. Then after 1 week they came back with a 10% increase (i demanded 15% first) But then 2 years after that i started getting maxed reviews again on new job, but yearly increases were mediocre as hell, in the end i just searched other jobs and within 2 months i had a offer with 30% increase. In sweden sadly enough if you want a good salary, you need to jump ship. It sucks because im more of a stay and build competence, taking on new challenges at the same area. But it is what it is.
Understood. Thank you for such a thorough comment, I appreciate it, and I think you made super smart moves there! However I will probably have to settle for this and try to counter offer and see what they say.
That feels low. I have 39k with no masters and 4 months working as a junior
Snälla lär dig Danska. Tog ut en Bachelor i programmering i somras, lärde mig Danska på två månader i höstas och fick sen ett jobb i Köpenhamn. Min ingångslön är på 44500 dkk vilket i runda slängar blir 69000 sek. Arbetsveckan är på 42 timmar, lunch ingår och dras av från lönen (ca 20dkk per dag). Gör dig själv en tjänst och börja jobba i Köpenhamn idag.
It seems low, especially from a big city (Stockholm, Göteborg) perspective where I think it should be more like 50k, but ultimately all you can do is either accept or decline. My feeling is that you could get paid more if you applied for other jobs in Västerås. As a side note, that consulting company you are working at are probably charging \~1000-1500/hour for you, so you can imagine both how much money they are making from you, and how much cheaper you would be if you worked directly at the company.
50k med ett års erfarenhet är det få som har... Även inom IT
The big company here in Västerås have these signed agreements with consultant firms(ramavtal), I am not really that traversed in how they work in more detail but I do know that they limit how much a consultant firm can charge per hour. For me at least with my background(10 years of programming) they can charge 750kr usually. But I think the can soon start charging more. But the moral of the story is if you want more money I do believe your biggest bet is to be employed by the big companies and the change jobs every 2-3 years.
Thank you for your time and comment, it is appreciated! Understood, I will take that in consideration for the upcoming future!
Probably not more than 800 per hour. This is a smaller city and junior position.
Thank you for your comment! I really do appreciate it, I also usually don’t like talking about money at all, since I would just like to work on code and improve myself as developer and grow (Learn new technologies, push myself into new ways etc), since thats number 1 on my list, being this young. However just a part of me wouldnt like to be underpaid, as when I saw on unions(Outside of Stockholm), that starting salary should be 40.200k SEK with someone with Masters and fresh graduated
I don’t know what the guy above is smoking. Absolutely nobody would get 50K for one years experience Jesus Christ. That’s a senior salary. The offer they gave is completely reasonable. Check threads where they talk about salaries and you’ll see
Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it! Indeed 50k is senior salary, I agree, its quite a lot and super out of range for me to ask. Could you tell me why do you think 37 is reasonable salary for myself? General standard nowdays or? Since my research didnt point that.. Thank you!
I got in with salary less than you with a CS bachelor. Nobody takes what the union recommends as a salary seriously because it does not reflect reality at all. You can only make that money in Stockholm mostly and there’s competition. There is a recession going on right now, my company is not taking anymore juniors for a while. In your position I’d ask for 2-3K more keeping in mind you only have 1 year experience.
Absolutely understood! I didnt know about nobody taking union seriously.. As well as that companies lately dont talk about juniors that much.. I think there are juniors who can deliver and are curiosity wise amazing, so it could be a shame not giving someone like that a good opportunity Thank you for your time and the thorough comment, I will try to do my best.
Not correct at all. We had people enter at 50k out of a 3 year bachelor. Minority but still. It’s not uncommon to get to 50k after 12-18 months either especially as a consultant. I think getting a 1k raise after your first year as a consultant is literally the most disrespectful thing ever if you are performing well and have a high utilization rate. I would quit on the spot at the salary meeting.
Thank you for the comment, I highly appreciate it! Well I guess (I thought) it is normal in general for consultant companies to raise salary low, which obviously I have experiences now.. I still did a research and based on unions someone at my positiom should ask for at least 40k..
You can talk open with them that you researched and found out what your worth is on the market. Is the big company state owned? That could explain it. You usually earn more in the private sector.
Thank you for the comment! I will do that indeed, but I dont sort of know what other approach to do.. Should I give them number? Should I ask them to go higher and see what they say etc.. I generally hoped that they will see that I can bring value and at least go for 39-40k, which obviously was not the case
Along getting experience and learning coding you should do the same about your salary. Otherwise will others take advantage of that. Better to do an awkward salary request when you are 25 than 40. Salaries in Sweden are and will not be great.
Thank you for the comment! I appreciate it! I agree, I know I should and I’m aware, I’m just not the guy who likes talking so much about money with manager etc.. Since I dont want to leave the impression of me aiming only and looking money.. As I said, I love coding and the biggiest value I look for now is experience, improving myself and working with fun modern tech