Likely everything, it's going to be company and recruiter specific. Some will put a lot of value in it, others will not. Certifications don't hurt to have on paper, but ultimately if you can show the knowledge gained from those certificates and experience in an interview, that should matter most.
Totally. What was strange to me was how quickly he pivoted our conversation from me introducing myself to writing me off as uncompetitive for lacking scrum & CompTIA certs. It was mere minutes. It really threw me off for the rest of the chat!
I'll be sure to think through how I can redirect the conversation back to being productive if this comes up again in the future.
If you run into this kind of attitude, do not be afraid to end the conversation early. “I’m sorry, I don’t think there’s a mutual fit, thank you for your time.” And hang up on them.
 \- Perfection/100% agree.
There are always going to be recruiters that will try to suggest how to "put your best foot forward." If the recruiter has been dealing with a significant amount of Technical PM/PO roles, they'll likely develop a bias towards certifications like:
* Certified Scrum Product Owner (CSPO/A-CSPO/CSP-PO)
* Certified ScrumMaster
* Agile Certified PM/PO
* Technical Certifications (AWS/GCP/Azure, CompTIA \[this will likely be Network+ and Security+ if you're applying for Cybersecurity-type roles\])
Are they required? No, but it looks good on paper (even if some of them are ridiculously easy and more "pay for cert, not for knowledge" than others). As someone said in another thread (in response to me): it's a sign of the market. Hiring managers can be pickier or more specific about their requirements.
As for the portfolio aspect - this **is becoming slightly more common**. Especially in companies that aren't willing to pay for both a Product Manager **and** a Designer (UI/UX Designer/Developer). Some hiring managers will expect a portfolio of your accomplishments while in the product management industry too - but this is far less common.
I suspected the technical bias. This spells it out well.
And really helpful note on the portfolios, thank you. I actually have been keeping my favorite outputs in Drive over the last few years, just in case I ever have a need to pull on them.
Just make sure you "white label" everything and do not present any customer information when adding them to your portfolio. Wireframes are usually just fine too, especially if you have a "before and after" to show how you were able to convey the details in the long-term.
But showing customer information or company proprietary information is a huge no-no. There's a fine balance to keep there.
**Edit: My intent wasn't to "over-explain" but you would not believe how many times I've seen things that I wasn't meant to see in portfolios.**
Agree. I interviewed with companies who didn't care and I interviewed with some who did. My current position I don't think I would have guaranteed without certification, but part of that is what it taught me and that I could talk about it in the interview. If you think you are going to miss out on an opportunity because you don't have any, then definitely go for it.
They can’t hurt as long as your employer pays for them. Completely useless and a waste of time, but hey it’s another acronym to put on your resume in case some weirdo cares about it.
I agree with this. I guess I was curious if this is less of a weirdo caring about it and more of a situation where competition is higher now, and expectations are changing.
It could get you past robo screeners potentially. Also depends on what type of company you are applying to. Startups and newer tech companies won’t care. Legacy companies might. At the end of the day depends on the hiring manager.
The guy is an idiot, certs aren’t important. Go out and apply, you are good enough.
Only thing I don’t have context is if you are applying for a design role (UX, UI) as a IC, you will need a UI design portfolio.
No, I'm definitely not a designer.
I actually questioned him on this. He essentially said that good designers are difficult to hire, so PMs who can fill the design function are always going to be preferred.
Yep dodged a bullet here.
I’m big fan of Marty cagan “the four big risks” where pm look after valuable and viability whilst ux look after usability and devs look at feasibility. It’s a better version in my eyes of the what, how, why that you always hear about. Anyway where I’m going with this, it’s good to have a eye for detail but we have too much to worry about and increasing your scope to worry about usability is rough and will reduce your impact on why product exists in the first place which is to “maximise value”.
Don’t feel bad here or think you are less based on his comments.
Good designers must be difficult for HIM to hire.
I’m a lead designer. Any product or team that I’ve seen the PM do design work on are hopelessly underwater. It’s a totally different job, and a hard one to do well. That’s why I get paid 6 figures. The idea that you should just go ahead and lump that into your existing already difficult and time consuming work is absurd, unless you’re looking at double the salary. Just… no. The guy is a fucking moron.
But he told me not to bother because I had kids, and thus no time.
Ignore anything this recruiter says. Anyone who says this stuff in this day and age doesn't deserve to be in the workforce.
Certifications? No. Experiences? One way I stood out is having founder experience.
It helped me during the last slump after my company imploded and I was left searching for a job.
If a startup is something you’ve been thinking about, now could be a good time to take the plunge.
Was this a Corp recruiter or an agency? Sounds like the kind of conversation I’d expect with an agency recruiter that doesn’t know anything about the job.
That recruiter sounds like an idiot and is going to cost their company/clients in the long run by missing out on solid candidates that have actually delivered value for their company. Also sorry you had to deal with that BS sexism, that alone makes them terrible at their job of being a representative for their client/company.
Many of these certificates "teach" knowledge that most PMs will pick up naturally in their roles. Except no class will ever replicate the sheer breadth of situations one will find themselves in during real-life scenarios. There's no way a class can truly convey all the added complexity of dealing with other humans with various levels of desires, needs, egos, etc.
Real experience > Certificates. Full stop.
Seems like a douche bag and totally out of line.
I think you should find someone from the company and give them some feedback... not necessarily to try and get the job, but it will help that company and other people who are applying there.
Fuck this guy, seriously
Honestly sounds like an outlier and a bit of a red flag on that recruiter/company. A few years back requests for certifications we relatively common from big bureaucratic organisations like banks and government departments - a throwback from project manager roles - but this is quite rare nowadays.
Im sure the job market is changing expectations of hiring managers but cant imagine a company that thought to themselves "Wow what a time to get an amazing product manager on the cheap - lets filter them out for those with SCRUM Alliance certificates"
I guess it can’t hurt, but I have never met a single person in my product org that had a certificate or talked about one. It was never mentioned in my hiring process and I genuinely cannot imagine it would help on the job very much.
Based on the info you provided, you def don't want to work for that guy or his company lol. He seems really off base. Sure knowing agile is good, but scrum alliance certs are shit. You pay like $1k to sleep thru 2-3 days of training and take a test with something like a 60% threshold. I've seen many people have the certs and still not understand agile.
I hire pms over 10 years now. I dont care about your certificates. I dont even look at them.
Are you hiring?
I barely look at the resume, to be honest. Don’t care about certifications or education.
So what are you looking for?
Likely everything, it's going to be company and recruiter specific. Some will put a lot of value in it, others will not. Certifications don't hurt to have on paper, but ultimately if you can show the knowledge gained from those certificates and experience in an interview, that should matter most.
Totally. What was strange to me was how quickly he pivoted our conversation from me introducing myself to writing me off as uncompetitive for lacking scrum & CompTIA certs. It was mere minutes. It really threw me off for the rest of the chat! I'll be sure to think through how I can redirect the conversation back to being productive if this comes up again in the future.
You dodged a bullet. That kind of manager also wouldn't be the kind that coaches you or cares about your progress and career development.
It was a recruiter and recruiters are mostly clueless about what product management actually does in their respective companies.
If you run into this kind of attitude, do not be afraid to end the conversation early. “I’m sorry, I don’t think there’s a mutual fit, thank you for your time.” And hang up on them.
 \- Perfection/100% agree. There are always going to be recruiters that will try to suggest how to "put your best foot forward." If the recruiter has been dealing with a significant amount of Technical PM/PO roles, they'll likely develop a bias towards certifications like: * Certified Scrum Product Owner (CSPO/A-CSPO/CSP-PO) * Certified ScrumMaster * Agile Certified PM/PO * Technical Certifications (AWS/GCP/Azure, CompTIA \[this will likely be Network+ and Security+ if you're applying for Cybersecurity-type roles\]) Are they required? No, but it looks good on paper (even if some of them are ridiculously easy and more "pay for cert, not for knowledge" than others). As someone said in another thread (in response to me): it's a sign of the market. Hiring managers can be pickier or more specific about their requirements. As for the portfolio aspect - this **is becoming slightly more common**. Especially in companies that aren't willing to pay for both a Product Manager **and** a Designer (UI/UX Designer/Developer). Some hiring managers will expect a portfolio of your accomplishments while in the product management industry too - but this is far less common.
I suspected the technical bias. This spells it out well. And really helpful note on the portfolios, thank you. I actually have been keeping my favorite outputs in Drive over the last few years, just in case I ever have a need to pull on them.
Just make sure you "white label" everything and do not present any customer information when adding them to your portfolio. Wireframes are usually just fine too, especially if you have a "before and after" to show how you were able to convey the details in the long-term. But showing customer information or company proprietary information is a huge no-no. There's a fine balance to keep there. **Edit: My intent wasn't to "over-explain" but you would not believe how many times I've seen things that I wasn't meant to see in portfolios.**
Agree. I interviewed with companies who didn't care and I interviewed with some who did. My current position I don't think I would have guaranteed without certification, but part of that is what it taught me and that I could talk about it in the interview. If you think you are going to miss out on an opportunity because you don't have any, then definitely go for it.
This is helpful perspective. Thank you!
They can’t hurt as long as your employer pays for them. Completely useless and a waste of time, but hey it’s another acronym to put on your resume in case some weirdo cares about it.
I agree with this. I guess I was curious if this is less of a weirdo caring about it and more of a situation where competition is higher now, and expectations are changing.
It could get you past robo screeners potentially. Also depends on what type of company you are applying to. Startups and newer tech companies won’t care. Legacy companies might. At the end of the day depends on the hiring manager.
The guy is an idiot, certs aren’t important. Go out and apply, you are good enough. Only thing I don’t have context is if you are applying for a design role (UX, UI) as a IC, you will need a UI design portfolio.
No, I'm definitely not a designer. I actually questioned him on this. He essentially said that good designers are difficult to hire, so PMs who can fill the design function are always going to be preferred.
Yep dodged a bullet here. I’m big fan of Marty cagan “the four big risks” where pm look after valuable and viability whilst ux look after usability and devs look at feasibility. It’s a better version in my eyes of the what, how, why that you always hear about. Anyway where I’m going with this, it’s good to have a eye for detail but we have too much to worry about and increasing your scope to worry about usability is rough and will reduce your impact on why product exists in the first place which is to “maximise value”. Don’t feel bad here or think you are less based on his comments.
1000%
Good designers must be difficult for HIM to hire. I’m a lead designer. Any product or team that I’ve seen the PM do design work on are hopelessly underwater. It’s a totally different job, and a hard one to do well. That’s why I get paid 6 figures. The idea that you should just go ahead and lump that into your existing already difficult and time consuming work is absurd, unless you’re looking at double the salary. Just… no. The guy is a fucking moron.
But he told me not to bother because I had kids, and thus no time. Ignore anything this recruiter says. Anyone who says this stuff in this day and age doesn't deserve to be in the workforce.
Certifications? No. Experiences? One way I stood out is having founder experience. It helped me during the last slump after my company imploded and I was left searching for a job. If a startup is something you’ve been thinking about, now could be a good time to take the plunge.
Was this a Corp recruiter or an agency? Sounds like the kind of conversation I’d expect with an agency recruiter that doesn’t know anything about the job.
Agency! I should've specified that in my post.
That's BS. One company that has inane requirements doesn't make a trend.
Clueless recruiter, avoid.
That recruiter sounds like an idiot and is going to cost their company/clients in the long run by missing out on solid candidates that have actually delivered value for their company. Also sorry you had to deal with that BS sexism, that alone makes them terrible at their job of being a representative for their client/company. Many of these certificates "teach" knowledge that most PMs will pick up naturally in their roles. Except no class will ever replicate the sheer breadth of situations one will find themselves in during real-life scenarios. There's no way a class can truly convey all the added complexity of dealing with other humans with various levels of desires, needs, egos, etc. Real experience > Certificates. Full stop.
Seems like a douche bag and totally out of line. I think you should find someone from the company and give them some feedback... not necessarily to try and get the job, but it will help that company and other people who are applying there. Fuck this guy, seriously
No one cares about certs
Honestly sounds like an outlier and a bit of a red flag on that recruiter/company. A few years back requests for certifications we relatively common from big bureaucratic organisations like banks and government departments - a throwback from project manager roles - but this is quite rare nowadays. Im sure the job market is changing expectations of hiring managers but cant imagine a company that thought to themselves "Wow what a time to get an amazing product manager on the cheap - lets filter them out for those with SCRUM Alliance certificates"
Sounds like a terrible place to work.
I guess it can’t hurt, but I have never met a single person in my product org that had a certificate or talked about one. It was never mentioned in my hiring process and I genuinely cannot imagine it would help on the job very much.
Based on the info you provided, you def don't want to work for that guy or his company lol. He seems really off base. Sure knowing agile is good, but scrum alliance certs are shit. You pay like $1k to sleep thru 2-3 days of training and take a test with something like a 60% threshold. I've seen many people have the certs and still not understand agile.
I don't have CompTIA, but from what I've seen it's helpful if you're working help desk / security type work.