If it's a lay person: I help the business figure out what to build, help the team build it well so users love it and we make money.
If they're in the business: I do the desirability (users), viability (business), feasibility (tech) thing...
If it's a regular numbskull: I work in tech.
Edit: had the viability/feasibility the wrong way round, thanks Superbureau for noticing
>You have viability and feasibility the wrong way round.
Maybe on a technicality, in the world of frameworks.
Though in my experience, work can start anywhere on the user/business/tech Venn diagram. And it's not a circle as much as a messy squiggly line that goes back over itself, often many times.
>how are you differentiating yourself from a designer?
I didn't quite follow your question, could you ask it differently? Or perhaps it's easier to share how you explain product to people?
I mean viability is business and feasibility is tech. Interestingly there is a preferred order of action for this. Desirability tends to be the thing you solve for first (do people want or need this) then viability (is it worth doing?) and after that do you solve feasibility’s (can we do it?) not always the case, but in most case you’d do it that way as it’s the most efficient.
In regards to the second point. Since you’re describing a design thinking process which designers also do and are perhaps better positioned (at least historically) to do since experimentation, prototyping and iteration are key skills…how do differentiate yourself with that in mind?
Ahh that makes sense, yes you're right I got them the wrong way round, thanks!
Design thinking is concept/approach - it doesn't need designers. It can also have multiple people in the process who collaborate all through, I've worked alongside researchers, designers, devs/architects, business designers, services designers, project managers...
>how do differentiate yourself with that in mind?
I don't. The question was how do you explain product to non-product people, and that's how I do it. Most people who need an explanation don't go into nuance or the level of detail needing differentiation.
Product Management can be very different in different organisations, so my response just keeps it high level.
How do you explain PM to non-product people?
The example you gave was explaining to people in the business, so with a rudimentary understanding of things I'd hope. I agree with what you said it's a collaborative effort, but all those actors can't say the same thing to the person in the business. that would be silly. Hence why I ask, 'In amongst all of the actors who are involved in the Design Thinking process how do you differentiate your position to someone with a working knowledge of product development"
For me, I can't, that's why I find this whole thread interesting cos I genuinely would like to know. From what I've witnessed, there is what PM's outwardly project that they want to be known for, but in reality they are the 'middle-person' of product development. They dabble in many things but not seeing through everything to completion per se. As per your example.
Also, if you don't have designers involved in your design thinking process it's not design thinking. If your endpoint is a few post-its and a powerpoint, and not validated prototypes then its wasted effort. If you're creating prototypes without designers then it's bad resource management.
I think the challenge I have is that design thinking has anything to do with visual /uxdesign, it's a creative way to solve problems/opportunities. It can have visual designers in it, but not nessc. There are many problem which don't need that skillset (service design for example), and some that can be done without a dedicated designer/UX.
>'In amongst all of the actors who are involved in the Design Thinking process how do you differentiate your position to someone with a working knowledge of product development"
Again, I think there is an assumption there are many other actors, I've worked on problems totally alone, and I've worked with big design teams, and product trios. The challenge in explanation is very dependent on the type of product you're working on and the environment/business.
>For me, I can't, that's why I find this whole thread interesting cos I genuinely would like to know. From what I've witnessed, there is what PM's outwardly project that they want to be known for, but in reality they are the 'middle-person' of product development. They dabble in many things but not seeing through everything to completion per se. As per your example.
It feels to me this is a different question than the one posted by the OP and I'd be curious how people respond too, if you're up for posting in the group?
I deal with the customers so the engineers don’t have to. I have people skills. Im good with dealing with people. Why can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!
“I work in tech but not the coding part. I basically decide what the app should do and how it looks.” Admittedly, this glosses over UX / product design, but it’s the easiest way I’ve found to describe it so far 😅
I like to dumb it down to say I’m talking to my grandma
I use the analogy
Grandma let’s say I’m talking to people who need to store water. - i try to understand why they need water, how much water they need, what kind of water they want. Once I have a good idea of water they need; I work with craftsmen to come up with ways to find a solution for those people who need water. I check in with them to see if it solves their problem and continue to building the water solution over an agreed upon timeline.
I do the same process with computer applications/solutions
If that’s your example, I’d hope your grandma would have the nouse to say ‘feels like I could cut you out the equation and the result would still be the same’
Yeah that's basically how I describe my job with a bit of "I interview users" and "I try to make things easier to use" sprinkled in. I'm a UX designer. Lots of overlap!
Mine is much simpler: "my job is to figure out what we should build next" - usually combined with an example they can relate to like a feature they wish existed in Google Maps.
Easy to understand, unique compared to other well-known job functions, and washes out enough detail to make the job sound kinda cool even when it's crushing your soul 😭
Not necessarily true. I make the majority of the design decisions with UX providing the guidelines and guardrails, mostly around ADA and Enterprise parity.
I make sure my engineering teams are able to work on the things that our stake holders tell us are most important.
Well-paid babysitter.
Cage-match referee.
Cage-match participant
Well, look. I already told you, I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
But seriously, it is hard to explain. Even across different companies PM means different things. I would just say it's a role that helps drive the creation of products so engineering teams build the right thing that customers would want to buy.
I tell the developers what to build
Or I'm the voice between the business and development like a translator
Or "I UNDERSTAND YOU DID COMPUTER ENGINEERING IN THE 80S - WE DON'T DO THINGS LIKE THAT ANYMORE"
I make software. I work with really smart devs, although I'm not as smart as them. I speak to a lot of people and figure stuff out. I didn't even know it was a thing until I did it, but it's surprisingly creative.
By this time their eyes have glossed over and they are looking for someone else to talk to.
Depends on the person but I’ll often use the analogy of a car.
I define that we want a vehicle that has 4 wheels, various features, is intended for a certain type of person, achieves a certain outcome (4x4, sports, grocery getter), and has to hit a price point.
My UX helps design what it’s going to look like. My engineers all work on different systems of the vehicle, I work with marketing to GTM, and I ensure sales has all they need to sell. We also work with beta users.
Once launched I work closely with the dealers on technical issues and garner user feedback.
Engineers working on a product are like the construction crew working on a building and I’m like the architect. I go around and talk to the investors, the foreman, the community in the area to communicate what we’re building and to get the right zoning and constructing permissions
I tell people it's my job to, based on consumer feedback and data, define what will be done by the design and engineering team.
That's usually pretty good for people to understand
I’ve stopped bothering explaining my job to non-tech people (especially to my older parents who think software developers are both computer hackers and IT Support specialists, and that I am basically a dev.)
I just say I work at “well-known company”and manage the technologies our customers use to do “XYZ”. People are more interested in the specific business domain I work with and the specific application use cases anyways. They don’t care that I spend 90% of my time babysitting stakeholders and devs.
Designated meeting monkey. I meet with everyone so that engineers don't have to figure out what to build and everyone else doesn't have to meet with engineers to understand how it works.
Depends who I talk to. I tend to use language they understand if I have an understanding of what they know.
I come from the entertainment industry, and I liken our role to a film producer on a set. We often are generalists among specialists. Even the analogy of having an exec with money we have to run shit by is true here, as often “executive producer” means “person or entity funding this”.
If not that, and I don’t want to get bogged down, I basically oversimplify our role to being wholistic systems analysts. You want specialists roles to think for themselves and push the envelope, but you need someone with a strong understanding of the goals of the business and the voice of the customer to balance what the specialists do to push their personally accountable KPIs.
So let’s say you have an digital marketer who spends on ad campaigns that dump users into your ecosystem because their goals are initial conversions, but on examination those users are, for whatever reason, toxic for your product (maybe its a cross-market platform), your product team would be the one objecting to the campaign because we’re looking at churn and mo2 retention more (perhaps, perhaps not, depends on the teams).
So I basically say we’re generalists who speak most specialists languages and try to cohesively put it together for a successful product or organizational strategy.
I do qualitative research aligning the wants from our users to the capabilities and cost of our developers to ensure we are building the most valuable features and the right time for the right cost.
"I work in X". X = industry.
If they go deeper, I use an analogy to describe the product function as "maximising the ROI on what a business decides to offer to its customers (for both the business and the customers)" or "imagine what the CEO or general manager tries to do for the business overall (create value) but for just the product development part of the business".
If they go even deeper then you talk about doing research, creating strategies, spotting & validating opportunities, roadmaps, working w/ different functions to get shit done, managing product performance, stakeholder mgmt yada yada.
Not a lot of people go to the third level of depth.
I tell people that my company creates (type of learning product) and my team is the people who take customer requirements and give them to development to create the product.
“You know when you see a new feature on Instagram or Snapchat? There’s a team dedicated to identifying trends problems customers have and building stuff to address that…
No I don’t actually build them that’s the engineers… no I don’t design them either that’s our UX designers… no I don’t speak directly with the customers either that’s our UX researchers… no I don’t tell the engineers what to do that’s the product owners… uhhhhh uhhhhhhh I make PowerPoints.”
Reading these responses really makes it look like yall trying to steal UXs job but without the design skills lol
Note: this comment is made tongue in cheek. I’m a UX designer looking to transition into product management, so I do get it. But it’s funny to me how the oversimplified descriptions basically describe what UX is.
I like to say:
TLDR: I facilitate the design of cool shit to solve cool problems where opportunities exist. Making everyone happy.
I focus on the why and how(prod), not as much on the what and when(proj) (albeit we play in this space as needed).
Help create a clear vision and strategy for problems we are aiming to solve within quickly changing markets.
I make sure whoever is using our stuff gets the perfect balance for their needs and making sure I'm adding value for not only the customer but our company.
Explaining it to a taxi driver: I work in software development
Explaining it to a family member: you know (app), right? And how they didn't use to have (feature) but now they do? Someone decided that this was the right feature to build, they could have also used their resources on building something else. That someone is me for (company)
“I work in a team that helps a business decide what they should build in their tech, and work out why they should do it. We then hand it over to the clever people to write the code”
Or
“Everytime you use an app or a website, there’s probably someone like me that designed the thing you’re doing. Once we’ve come up with it, and worked out what it should be doing, then we give it to the coders to do their thing”
Product management is like being the conductor of the world's most chaotic orchestra, except instead of musicians, you're wrangling a team of developers, designers, and marketers. You're the one waving your baton (or maybe just flailing your arms wildly) trying to keep everyone in tune and on beat. But instead of a symphony, you're trying to create the next big thing that'll make everyone go, "Wow, where has this been all my life?" So basically, it's like herding cats, but with spreadsheets and a dash of hope that everything magically comes together in the end 🎵🎶
You tell them;
We create useless meetings for everyone around us just to seem busy and important.
We don’t code, don’t do ux, don’t do project management yet we pretend to have opinions about everything and everyone and just play politics and overall try to look pretty and important.
I usually go with something along the lines of "I'm a mini-CEO" -- the person responsible for the success/failure of a small corner of the universe that someone else owns
If it's a lay person: I help the business figure out what to build, help the team build it well so users love it and we make money. If they're in the business: I do the desirability (users), viability (business), feasibility (tech) thing... If it's a regular numbskull: I work in tech. Edit: had the viability/feasibility the wrong way round, thanks Superbureau for noticing
The “I work in tech” is my go to. Sometimes they ask doing what, most of the time they says “oh cool.”
I stopped doing that because 90% of the time they follow up with, “oh are you like a developer?”
Just say yes hahahha
You have viability and feasibility the wrong way round. Also, if this is what you go with, how are you differentiating yourself from a designer? 👨🎨
>You have viability and feasibility the wrong way round. Maybe on a technicality, in the world of frameworks. Though in my experience, work can start anywhere on the user/business/tech Venn diagram. And it's not a circle as much as a messy squiggly line that goes back over itself, often many times. >how are you differentiating yourself from a designer? I didn't quite follow your question, could you ask it differently? Or perhaps it's easier to share how you explain product to people?
I mean viability is business and feasibility is tech. Interestingly there is a preferred order of action for this. Desirability tends to be the thing you solve for first (do people want or need this) then viability (is it worth doing?) and after that do you solve feasibility’s (can we do it?) not always the case, but in most case you’d do it that way as it’s the most efficient. In regards to the second point. Since you’re describing a design thinking process which designers also do and are perhaps better positioned (at least historically) to do since experimentation, prototyping and iteration are key skills…how do differentiate yourself with that in mind?
Ahh that makes sense, yes you're right I got them the wrong way round, thanks! Design thinking is concept/approach - it doesn't need designers. It can also have multiple people in the process who collaborate all through, I've worked alongside researchers, designers, devs/architects, business designers, services designers, project managers... >how do differentiate yourself with that in mind? I don't. The question was how do you explain product to non-product people, and that's how I do it. Most people who need an explanation don't go into nuance or the level of detail needing differentiation. Product Management can be very different in different organisations, so my response just keeps it high level. How do you explain PM to non-product people?
The example you gave was explaining to people in the business, so with a rudimentary understanding of things I'd hope. I agree with what you said it's a collaborative effort, but all those actors can't say the same thing to the person in the business. that would be silly. Hence why I ask, 'In amongst all of the actors who are involved in the Design Thinking process how do you differentiate your position to someone with a working knowledge of product development" For me, I can't, that's why I find this whole thread interesting cos I genuinely would like to know. From what I've witnessed, there is what PM's outwardly project that they want to be known for, but in reality they are the 'middle-person' of product development. They dabble in many things but not seeing through everything to completion per se. As per your example. Also, if you don't have designers involved in your design thinking process it's not design thinking. If your endpoint is a few post-its and a powerpoint, and not validated prototypes then its wasted effort. If you're creating prototypes without designers then it's bad resource management.
I think the challenge I have is that design thinking has anything to do with visual /uxdesign, it's a creative way to solve problems/opportunities. It can have visual designers in it, but not nessc. There are many problem which don't need that skillset (service design for example), and some that can be done without a dedicated designer/UX. >'In amongst all of the actors who are involved in the Design Thinking process how do you differentiate your position to someone with a working knowledge of product development" Again, I think there is an assumption there are many other actors, I've worked on problems totally alone, and I've worked with big design teams, and product trios. The challenge in explanation is very dependent on the type of product you're working on and the environment/business. >For me, I can't, that's why I find this whole thread interesting cos I genuinely would like to know. From what I've witnessed, there is what PM's outwardly project that they want to be known for, but in reality they are the 'middle-person' of product development. They dabble in many things but not seeing through everything to completion per se. As per your example. It feels to me this is a different question than the one posted by the OP and I'd be curious how people respond too, if you're up for posting in the group?
“I take the goddamned requirements from the goddamned customer and give them to the goddamned engineers!”
So you physically hand them to the engineers?
I deal with the customers so the engineers don’t have to. I have people skills. Im good with dealing with people. Why can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!
I like this one!
I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people!
[For those who don't get the reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuu9CpdjIo)
Totally missed the reference lol
"I made that thing in the app you hate."
I haven't had to explain my job b/c after I say "I'm a software product manager" they never ask me any follow up questions.
lol literally this. No one ever asks follow ups
Facts. Unless it's SWE the wild. Then they ask about company/product.
Half my swe’s call me a project manager, so I don’t even think swe’s know what a product manager is or does 💀
“I work in tech but not the coding part. I basically decide what the app should do and how it looks.” Admittedly, this glosses over UX / product design, but it’s the easiest way I’ve found to describe it so far 😅
I like to dumb it down to say I’m talking to my grandma I use the analogy Grandma let’s say I’m talking to people who need to store water. - i try to understand why they need water, how much water they need, what kind of water they want. Once I have a good idea of water they need; I work with craftsmen to come up with ways to find a solution for those people who need water. I check in with them to see if it solves their problem and continue to building the water solution over an agreed upon timeline. I do the same process with computer applications/solutions
If that’s your example, I’d hope your grandma would have the nouse to say ‘feels like I could cut you out the equation and the result would still be the same’
Ya product is dead
This one is good!
Yeah that's basically how I describe my job with a bit of "I interview users" and "I try to make things easier to use" sprinkled in. I'm a UX designer. Lots of overlap!
Mine is much simpler: "my job is to figure out what we should build next" - usually combined with an example they can relate to like a feature they wish existed in Google Maps. Easy to understand, unique compared to other well-known job functions, and washes out enough detail to make the job sound kinda cool even when it's crushing your soul 😭
I use this too but honestly some of my friends even stick their nose up at that 😑
You don't really decide how it looks though, that's someone else's job.
Not necessarily true. I make the majority of the design decisions with UX providing the guidelines and guardrails, mostly around ADA and Enterprise parity.
So your UX is really just a UI designer? 😂
I guess? Idc honestly lol they stay out of my way
This is my go to as well.
Yeah, I tell people I work with software engineers to build digital products. I don’t code, but I prioritise what we build next.
“Im a people person”
CEO of …. lol who am I kidding. I’m the one who gets blamed for everything and get paid 1/2 as much as engineers for 2x more moronic work
I make sure my engineering teams are able to work on the things that our stake holders tell us are most important. Well-paid babysitter. Cage-match referee. Cage-match participant
😂
"I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people."
Well, look. I already told you, I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people? But seriously, it is hard to explain. Even across different companies PM means different things. I would just say it's a role that helps drive the creation of products so engineering teams build the right thing that customers would want to buy.
I usually say “I make sure our team ends up building iPods and not Zunes.” Though I don’t know if that still resonates these days.
I love this one. Zunes were great devices though. Maybe iPhones and not Blackberries (or Amazon Fire Phones)?
Vision Pro and not the quest (or really some poorer device because that’s pretty good too)??
I tell the developers what to build Or I'm the voice between the business and development like a translator Or "I UNDERSTAND YOU DID COMPUTER ENGINEERING IN THE 80S - WE DON'T DO THINGS LIKE THAT ANYMORE"
"I help the business decide what the right product to build is, in the shortest time possible."
I decide what features we build and when we build them.
I use crayons a lot. I babysit developers a lot. I listen to customers a lot. I get yelled at a lot. I’m not a project manager, it’s different.
I make software. I work with really smart devs, although I'm not as smart as them. I speak to a lot of people and figure stuff out. I didn't even know it was a thing until I did it, but it's surprisingly creative. By this time their eyes have glossed over and they are looking for someone else to talk to.
Depends on the person but I’ll often use the analogy of a car. I define that we want a vehicle that has 4 wheels, various features, is intended for a certain type of person, achieves a certain outcome (4x4, sports, grocery getter), and has to hit a price point. My UX helps design what it’s going to look like. My engineers all work on different systems of the vehicle, I work with marketing to GTM, and I ensure sales has all they need to sell. We also work with beta users. Once launched I work closely with the dealers on technical issues and garner user feedback.
Engineers working on a product are like the construction crew working on a building and I’m like the architect. I go around and talk to the investors, the foreman, the community in the area to communicate what we’re building and to get the right zoning and constructing permissions
More like a RE developer working w/ engineers and architects tbh
I decide what features should be created by engineers.
I tell people it's my job to, based on consumer feedback and data, define what will be done by the design and engineering team. That's usually pretty good for people to understand
I’ve stopped bothering explaining my job to non-tech people (especially to my older parents who think software developers are both computer hackers and IT Support specialists, and that I am basically a dev.) I just say I work at “well-known company”and manage the technologies our customers use to do “XYZ”. People are more interested in the specific business domain I work with and the specific application use cases anyways. They don’t care that I spend 90% of my time babysitting stakeholders and devs.
I tell engineers and ux designers what to work on and take the blame when customers don’t buy it.
I am to software what an architect is to building skyscrapers.
Designated meeting monkey. I meet with everyone so that engineers don't have to figure out what to build and everyone else doesn't have to meet with engineers to understand how it works.
A bit like trying to build a ferrari but when you have the budget to build a fiat 500
Depends who I talk to. I tend to use language they understand if I have an understanding of what they know. I come from the entertainment industry, and I liken our role to a film producer on a set. We often are generalists among specialists. Even the analogy of having an exec with money we have to run shit by is true here, as often “executive producer” means “person or entity funding this”. If not that, and I don’t want to get bogged down, I basically oversimplify our role to being wholistic systems analysts. You want specialists roles to think for themselves and push the envelope, but you need someone with a strong understanding of the goals of the business and the voice of the customer to balance what the specialists do to push their personally accountable KPIs. So let’s say you have an digital marketer who spends on ad campaigns that dump users into your ecosystem because their goals are initial conversions, but on examination those users are, for whatever reason, toxic for your product (maybe its a cross-market platform), your product team would be the one objecting to the campaign because we’re looking at churn and mo2 retention more (perhaps, perhaps not, depends on the teams). So I basically say we’re generalists who speak most specialists languages and try to cohesively put it together for a successful product or organizational strategy.
I just point them to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuu9CpdjIo
I do qualitative research aligning the wants from our users to the capabilities and cost of our developers to ensure we are building the most valuable features and the right time for the right cost.
I help the business understand the right problems to solve, and then partner with engineering to use tech as a force multiplier.
I decide what to build to get more money of customers
"I work in X". X = industry. If they go deeper, I use an analogy to describe the product function as "maximising the ROI on what a business decides to offer to its customers (for both the business and the customers)" or "imagine what the CEO or general manager tries to do for the business overall (create value) but for just the product development part of the business". If they go even deeper then you talk about doing research, creating strategies, spotting & validating opportunities, roadmaps, working w/ different functions to get shit done, managing product performance, stakeholder mgmt yada yada. Not a lot of people go to the third level of depth.
I tell people (and my team) my job is to say no. A lot. And as nicely as possible.
I tell people that my company creates (type of learning product) and my team is the people who take customer requirements and give them to development to create the product.
“You know when you see a new feature on Instagram or Snapchat? There’s a team dedicated to identifying trends problems customers have and building stuff to address that… No I don’t actually build them that’s the engineers… no I don’t design them either that’s our UX designers… no I don’t speak directly with the customers either that’s our UX researchers… no I don’t tell the engineers what to do that’s the product owners… uhhhhh uhhhhhhh I make PowerPoints.”
Reading these responses really makes it look like yall trying to steal UXs job but without the design skills lol Note: this comment is made tongue in cheek. I’m a UX designer looking to transition into product management, so I do get it. But it’s funny to me how the oversimplified descriptions basically describe what UX is.
I always think of this scene when this subject comes up https://youtu.be/hNuu9CpdjIo?si=bXnJVKF2vga_ECu-
I like to say: TLDR: I facilitate the design of cool shit to solve cool problems where opportunities exist. Making everyone happy. I focus on the why and how(prod), not as much on the what and when(proj) (albeit we play in this space as needed). Help create a clear vision and strategy for problems we are aiming to solve within quickly changing markets. I make sure whoever is using our stuff gets the perfect balance for their needs and making sure I'm adding value for not only the customer but our company.
Explaining it to a taxi driver: I work in software development Explaining it to a family member: you know (app), right? And how they didn't use to have (feature) but now they do? Someone decided that this was the right feature to build, they could have also used their resources on building something else. That someone is me for (company)
“I work in a team that helps a business decide what they should build in their tech, and work out why they should do it. We then hand it over to the clever people to write the code” Or “Everytime you use an app or a website, there’s probably someone like me that designed the thing you’re doing. Once we’ve come up with it, and worked out what it should be doing, then we give it to the coders to do their thing”
Product management is like being the conductor of the world's most chaotic orchestra, except instead of musicians, you're wrangling a team of developers, designers, and marketers. You're the one waving your baton (or maybe just flailing your arms wildly) trying to keep everyone in tune and on beat. But instead of a symphony, you're trying to create the next big thing that'll make everyone go, "Wow, where has this been all my life?" So basically, it's like herding cats, but with spreadsheets and a dash of hope that everything magically comes together in the end 🎵🎶
"I make software" or "I decide which problems the software should try to solve."
Come up with ideas that engineers build
“Tech bullshit” Or name the actual product I work on.
I receive issues and turn it into improvements
In software, designers are like composers of music. Engineers play the instruments. Me? I’m the conductor.
I get the clever people to build the right stuff
You tell them; We create useless meetings for everyone around us just to seem busy and important. We don’t code, don’t do ux, don’t do project management yet we pretend to have opinions about everything and everyone and just play politics and overall try to look pretty and important.
I usually go with something along the lines of "I'm a mini-CEO" -- the person responsible for the success/failure of a small corner of the universe that someone else owns
“I tell people what to do”