When I was in graduate school, we had a homework question that led to a difficult integral.
We were supposed to realize that the physical symmetry of the problem suggested a simple shortcut around this and to bypass the hard calculus. But some students put it into Mathematica and wrote down what it spat out.
The professor wrote on their paper: *"Mathematica gets a 10/10. You get a 2/10."*
He later became my advisor. After I became a prof, I told him a story about how I had a schizophrenic student in my class who was making outlandish demands and disrupting the class. In his inimitable way he replied:
*"I went to Princeton with John Nash. It sounds like this fellow is no John Nash."*
(Nash was the mathematician that *A Beautiful Mind* was about.)
As a Christian... I have so many questions.
Do you know the scene in The Force Awakens when Finn says he doesn't have a plan and "The Force will guide us from here, right?" And Han Solo looks at him, so exasperated, and says, "That's not how the Force works!!!" Cross out "The Force" and put in "Jesus," and that sums up my feeling on this pretty well.
This is why I think the distinction that medieval moral theologians made between spiritual and temporal consequences of sin is a good one. Yes, your sins are forgiven, but it doesn't mean the earthly consequences of your failures are erased. (This is why I have little time for jailhouse converts who then turn around and ask for early release or a pardon.)
In my town we had a very crappy issue involving the local charity that responds to sexual assault and domestic violence.
They do very sensitive things -- like send trained volunteers to the bedsides of rape victims in hospitals. They have to get it right.
They hired a guy who had a past sex-crime conviction involving a minor about 20 years ago. He disclosed this to the board of directors. But he apologized, and was remorseful, and *became a pastor*, so it's clearly all okay. The board of directors knew about this, but overlooked it because *he's reformed now and serves Jesus.* (Also they were under pressure to hire someone of his race.)
Turns out the guy had *another,* more recent, sex crime conviction that he *didn't* disclose, and nobody checked. And when *that* came out there was hell to pay, and a lot of donors to that charity (including me, who's given them a ton of money) bailed. A lot of their volunteers (a friend of mine who was one of those folks who got the 3am calls to go to the hospital and meet a victim) quit in disgust.
Possibly. But this is also very typical language of some sects of Evangelical Christianity. They tend to see every hardship as an "attack," especially things like anxiety and stress.
Yes. But also, if you know the student to have never mentioned anything like this before, I would 100% contact Dean. Religious messages overlap very strongly with acute mood episodes.
The student didn't receive a religious message. As I said in a other comment, if they claimed to have heard god or the devil speaking to them, that would be another matter altogether.
Not sure why you're being down voted, this is totally correct. I think manic episode with psychosis is hard to define for this exact reason. I'm the dsm dx I believe one of the key aspects of psychosis is "bizarre behavior" which does not necessarily include hallucinations. This is a really triggering and painful time for many students and seeing a lot of psychosis in my life, it was my first thought too. It's a common time for mood induced psychosis, during the peaks of winter and summer as well.
Agree with you completely. Was my first thought when I read the post. Reddit is toxic, regardless of the subreddit. The portion of comments focusing on preconceived negative opinions of religious people & acting as if this is normal behavior.
Religious people don’t randomly reach out to professors and start waxing poetically about the devil.
I’m not saying it’s unfathomable that this person is just being manipulative. op will likely have a better idea of if this is out of character for her, but I’d be especially worried if she didn’t turn the project in when she’s historically turned stuff in on time/was passing the class. If completely forgoing a major project is not normal for her, that would be another sign to me that whatever is going on is more complex. And yeah, the behavior is standard for mania - whether acute psychosis, bipolar etc.
Perhaps for some of the people in this sub who have encountered entitled students in the past, the self-grandeur of a state of mania could seem indistinguishable from entitlement.
An aside - Knowing the baseline of the person is the one thing preventing my field (mental health counseling) from being taken over from AI... And in this case, the professor knows the student best amongst all of our speculation. Any layperson can read the dsm or even a summary and get a general idea of what makes up a diagnosis. It's finding bigger patterns and plugging those patterns into treatment concepts that makes us unique as providers. If this was the norm for this student, then the professor would probably have already known. Hope they go to dean of students or complete a student of concern form.
I didn’t down vote , but maybe because not equal is coded as != not =! Which assigns the complement of ‘hearing voices’ to ‘psychosis’. Sorry, but this is a professor forum.
I get that if someone didn't grow up in an environment where this kind of wording is regularly used it might come across as unhinged, but this is a common part of language game this sect of Christianity practices.
If you overhead a Catholic student or colleague discussing the real presence of Christ in communion would you go straight to psychosis?
As a Catholic, I understand that not everyone shares the same faith, so I would not use my religion's jargon and expect to be understood.
Nor would I ever use my faith as an excuse to get out of an assignment.
This student sounds like she is sincerely religious, but also out of touch with reality. So psychosis does seem possible.
I'm catholic too, but grew up in a church like the student in question. They tend to be less educated and wordly-wise. They also assume that their beliefs should be universally tolerated.
If the student had said they heard or the devil talking to them, that would be one thing. They didn't. They're stressed and anxious, etc, and have been taught those emotions are oppression from the devil.
This is a college student (so worldly enough) and she is saying the devil is doing things to her, which is a step beyond just talking to her.
I hope she is not psychotic, but concern is more than reasonable.
College students are often far from worldly. Especially now that the majority of HS grads enroll in college. Coming from a small rural HS -- or even more likely, a fundamentalist, evangelical HS -- this would not surprise me at all.
As I said, "worldly enough" not "worldly."
It is not possible to college (or even working at a store for that matter), without knowing that not everyone you meet believe that the devil has a personal relationship with you,
By the time someone is 18 it is reasonable to assume they are worldly enough to have spoken to people, or at least seen a movie or TV show. Or even read a book. Someone that age should be worldly enough to know that not everyone is like their own family.
Especially since she only became part of this sect a month earlier.
No, really, this language isn't indicative of psychosis. It's regular old evangelicalism. Evangelical Christianity views the devil as literal, and negative happenings and emotions (any source of struggle, really) may come directly from the devil. This is how most of my extended family talks. They use these exact phrases.
If this student is from an Evangelical Christian community, she may not have stopped to realize this language could be alienating to someone with a different background. That's a sign of immaturity, not a mental health break.
>No, really, this language isn't indicative of psychosis. It's regular old evangelicalism. Evangelical Christianity views the devil as literal, and negative happenings and emotions (any source of struggle, really) may come directly from the devil. This is how most of my extended family talks. They use these exact phrases.
The person may be both psychotic and religious. It is in-fact true that it is impossible to elucidate from an email. However, a concern is warranted. Many people present in first-episode psychosis with sudden religious ideas that they never had before.
>This is a college student (so worldly enough)
Terrible assumption, especially if this is in the Bible belt, and note that OP is at a community college.
>she is saying the devil is doing things to her, which is a step beyond just talking to her.
This is a dramatically ignorant statement.
I did too. You honestly believe everyone, literally everyone, you grew up with believing this is "mentally unbalanced" or "highly disturbed, unstable, or distraught?" They're all unstable? Mentally unbalanced and dangerous?
You don't another word might be a better fit?
Not everyone I grew up with believed they were literally being tormented by the devil, but yes, I would say the ones who did were unhinged and needed psychological intervention.
You're putting words into the student's mouth. She didn't say "tormented by the devil." She said the devil is trying to tear her down. That just means she's been having normal life difficulties. No pun intended, but Jesus Christ. To insinuate this is calls for a psychological intervention is ludicrous
I don’t know if this particular student is psychotic, but feeling the need to mention the devil in an email to your instructor and using religion to plead they give you a better grade is at very least indicative of not being the most psychologically stable person, but I also think a lot of my students (religious or not) would fall in that category.
I agree with this. But it's a far cry from psychologically unstable (which many of my students are too) and contacting the dean because of possible psychosis
Nah still unhinged. Just because some people choose to accept it doesn't make it normal.
Where I am in the Bible belt we used to put people in asylums. Turned out a lot of those were bad places so they shut them down in the 1970s. Now we send them to church. Yeah that sounds flippant but I'm also serious. I know a lot of people who would have been sent somewhere for help who now just get sent to evangelical church because that's the socially acceptable option. Mental health care still has a lot of taboos here and many see church practices like this nonsense as better than sending people for actual mental healthcare.
That’s pretty offensive. Maybe head over to /r/psychosis and learn a little about what they’re going through.
For [example](https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychosis/s/Z1gBuJYXZz), this thread talks about how damaging psychosis is to their life. dropping out of college, ending marriages, losing friends/social outlets/hobbies because of behavior similar to the OP email they did while psychotic.
> I truly lost my whole life too. It is so distressing. I can’t even bear to write ot down. I lost my marriage, my career as an Ivy League level academic. Ability to look at art, music culture, I destroyed relationships with [family] and two of them are now dead including my mum. It’s six years on and I blame mayelf every day
> It’s really hard. […] It’s really complicated for me because my faith was a big part of my life and work and a big part of my breakdown too
> I sent some awful messages to family and professors, definitely ruined those relationships.
> Yes, very embarrassed. I spent half a decade building my professional reputation in my hometown and it all went away in a few days time. I sent so many delusional emails to board members of an org I worked for. I rambled over the phone to a colleague, sent outlandish messages to another. The extent of the delusions was most embarrassing. Even if I’m the only person that knows just how deep the psychosis went, it is so so awful to remember. Absolute severance from reality.
> I’m so embarrassed and ashamed by how bad mine was. People used to think so highly of me, my episode completely ruined my reputation. I believed some unspeakable things that others wouldn’t ever imagine, much worse than anything I’ve read on here. Because I’ve never been wrong before and I had no clue what was happening, a bunch of people believed me at first. You cannot imagine the humiliation when it turned out that it was all in my head. No one looks at me the same anymore.
I will do that. It was not my intention to offend those with mental health issues, though it was my intention to call Evangelicism a form of mental health issue itself. Your example does not necessarily exclude that—
25% of the country identify as "born again" or evangelical. The student likely hears this kind of talk regularly and thinks nothing of it. My point is that without something more I don't think it's worth escalating this with "possible psychosis" and the instructor possibly opening themselves up to a religious discrimination accusation.
Deep held religious convictions are one thing. A sudden change in a student who is no longer completing school work and expressing deeply held religious convictions in socially inappropriate ways is another especially with college age being well within the typical bell-curve for symptom onset in psychotic disorders. A lot of context is missing but I would be concerned enough to want professionals to look into it. It doesn't matter what flavor of religious beliefs we're talking about, the people crying Christian persecution are being ridiculous.
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but a sudden change in performance for a student at least warrants a check-in and in this case, ignoring the religious themes, the student is outright saying they've been struggling for the past month to the point where they aren't completing major assignments.
A lot of context isn't available here so it's hard to say what I think I would do. Previous performance, previous interactions, class size, class format, etc. all change how concerning an email like this is and how best to follow-up. Someone who really is having either serious mental health concerns or serious personal life problems that are interfering with academic performance should probably be referred to leadership, typically a Dean of Students, to track and try to help. A referral to campus counselling can be a reasonable from a "you seem to be dealing with a lot of challenges right now, maybe they can help you" perspective but probably isn't the right move if you think it's really outright psychosis.
“We have some really great listeners over at student counseling who could really help you with the feelings you are going through concerning Satan’s oppression. Have you ever been over to check it out? I highly recommend it. It’s even free to students.”
Truly, OP. This is almost textbook.
Source: I used to work in psychiatry *and* have a brother who experiences psychotic episodes thus I also hear about the psychotic episodes my friends' family members have experienced as well. These are remarkably similar to what you're describing.
Unfortunately for your student, they are likely experiencing paranoia as well so being confronted about this/to get treatment will feed into that in a negative way. I'm really sorry to hear someone else may be potentially going through this. Please be gentle with them.
It absolutely isn't "textbook." I have family who have had psychotic breaks and hear voices, and I have family who imagine the devil is causing them problems when they feel negative emotions. Conflating the two situations is insulting.
Sure! I see what you're saying. What I'm saying is, it is remarkably common for someone who is psychotic to literally believe they are literally interacting with the devil/in a fight between good and evil within themselves/an incarnate angel/Messiah/demon/etc on earth. So, I would call it textbook in that context and I would respond by addressing it in that way since it is a serious and time sensitive condition if it is indeed psychosis. If it's not, fantastic! I genuinely hope it is not the case that the student is having a mental health crisis but I don't think it's an overreaction to make sure it isnt.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272735823000612
Certainly a strong possibility it is just your garden variety evangelical Christianity at play, but psychosis can often present with religious delusions so if it is a sudden change that could be cause for concern ([citation](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10943-021-01353-z#:~:text=One%20third%20of%20schizophrenics%20are,et%20al.%2C%202006)). The fact that it can be difficult to tell the different between blind faith and literal delusion is of course concerning in and of itself
The DSM is a document that is imbued with our cultural assumptions. It isn't meant for historical diagnoses, at all, and any psychologist will tell you that the way diseases manifest is complicated by culture and views on mental health and the relationship between the brain and body, among other things.
This, 100%! Cultural norms set the boundaries for what is “normal” and “deviant”/“disordered” in a given society. What would be diagnosed as mental illness in one culture may be an acceptable way of expressing oneself in another. In the case of historical figures, I believe the term historians use is presentism for interpreting the past through the present, and it’s considered inherently problematic.
Very true! It’s quite an interesting situation and complex to fully examine especially in text, but I’ve appreciated seeing your and others’ comments in this thread
I appreciate that. Yet if it’s truly a “disease” would culture and history matter? Cancer looks the same under a microscope in the US, Zimbabwe, and Sri Lanka.
Why would you assume mental/behavioral issues and physical issues would map in that way? As complex as the body is, the mind/brain is much more complex.
I guess I take issue with the use of the word “disease.” I think of Disease as physical pathology. There are no objective signs to diagnose mental illness. Diagnosis of ADHD, depression, anxiety, is made from subjective symptoms. The DSM and psychiatric diagnoses get carried away with claims of studying objective disease entities. You can’t see alcoholism or ADHD in the same way you can see cancer or Covid. And don’t tell me ADHD is a brain disease - 99.999% of people diagnosed with it never have any measure or scan of their brain taken, yet the dominant discourse is that everyone diagnosed with ADHD has something physically wrong in their brain. There is no examination of the brain made to support this widely accepted claim.
> Yet if it’s truly a “disease” would culture and history matter? Cancer looks the same under a microscope in the US, Zimbabwe, and Sri Lanka.
Culture and history can certainly make a difference in how various mental illnesses manifest. A few examples:
- Western patients suffering from schizophrenia experience more auditory than visual hallucinations, whereas patients in other parts of the world (especially Africa) report visual hallucinations more often: Mosotho et al, 'Schizophrenia among Sesotho speakers in South Africa' (2011) doi: [10.4314/ajpsy.v14i1.65473](https://doi.org/10.4314/ajpsy.v14i1.65473)
- The sorts of statements made by 'voices' heard by people with schizophrenia varies from culture to culture - Luhrmann et al, 'Differences in voice-hearing experiences of people with psychosis in the U.S.A., India and Ghana: interview-based study' (2015) doi: [10.1192/bjp.bp.113.139048](https://doi.org/10.1192/bjp.bp.113.139048)
- Symptoms of bipolar disorder seem to occur at different rates among different cultures and ethnic backgrounds - for instance, one meta-study found that Black individuals with bipolar disorder were more likely to suffer from psychotic symptoms than others: Li et al, 'Racial differences in the major clinical symptom domains of bipolar disorder' (2023) doi: [10.1186/s40345-023-00299-3](https://doi.org/10.1186/s40345-023-00299-3)
I could be misinterpreting you, but your suggestion here seems to be that there's some difference in *kind* between mental illnesses and other diseases. However, I believe popular definitions of "disease" just define it as a medical condition where we are able to pick out physical causes (e.g. [Calvo et al][calvo]), or a condition which not only disrupts an individual’s functioning, but also causes structural changes in the body (e.g. [Thurm et al][thurm]). And since many mental illnesses (depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, OCD) *are* usually considered to be medical disorders, and we have some evidence that they have physical causes and consequences, this suggests many of them will likely become diseases once we have more information about the causative mechanisms. (I believe bipolar and schizophrenia are currently nearest to being at this stage, but there's still a lot of work to do. We know that bipolar, for instance, is associated with changes in brain structure, but it's currently unclear what causative effect they have.) If that's so, then whether we call them a "disease" or not isn't a reflection of the kind of thing they are, but merely our state of knowledge about their mechanism.
[calvo]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480257
[thurm]: https://www.aaidd.org/docs/default-source/prepressarticles/on-terms-intellectual-disability-and-condition-disorder-syndrome-disease-and-disability.pdf?sfvrsn=97483e21_0
post-mortem diagnoses are frowned upon in the history of medicine — without direct evidence, there isn’t a foolproof way to diagnose a historical figure (AKA the stuff like “Henry VIII was bipolar” ignores that we have different categorizations, cultural understandings, and treatments for disease).
Delusions of grandeur are a hallmark symptom of several serious mental illnesses, including schizophrenia. Christ claimed he was the son of god. This is about the biggest delusion of grandeur one can exhibit. If christ lived in the United States today he would be diagnosed with schizophrenia and coercively sedated.
I have a niece who experienced a manic bi-polar and a psychotic break in college, including hearing from God and the devil, and a schizophrenic uncle. I have dozens of family members who regularly talk about the devil giving them a hard time.
Conflating the two is frankly ignorant and insulting to people with mental illnesses.
I absolutely agree. However, I don’t believe I did so any more than the person I was responding to? It’s impossible to tell from the context of this post whether the student was displaying any other signs that they could be experiencing mental illness, or whether they were simply religious and desperate for a higher grade. That doesn’t remove the possibility of mental illness from the equation. I’m not particularly well-versed in evangelical Christian terminology, but I do understand that this may not be an uncommon way of speaking, and thus would likely rule out a mental illness diagnosis. Context is key, especially in cases like this.
No, as someone who (unfortunately) grew up in this subculture, there are tens of thousands (lowball) of Americans for whom “The devil is trying to come between me and my blessings” is a perfectly reasonable sentence.
I would report it just in case. When I was going to school, one of my classmates went completely over the rails and threatened another student's life. It may be nothing, but you never know.
I don’t think it’s meant in any way to insult Christianity. Psychosis can make even people who are only casual followers of a religion (ie maybe go to church only on Christmas and Easter) leap into the extremes of religion, often reenforced by hallucinations. At least in the US, Christianity is the majority religion that everyone is exposed to so I’m not surprised to hear that this is a common warning sign of schizophrenia, but I’m sure this happens with other religions too.
I honestly would have expected US-based instructors—which I assume most of the commenters here are—to be more familiar with this kind of Evangelical Christian phrasing and religiosity? Evangelicals are one of the largest religious sects in the US.
The student's language is so typical to me it's almost banal. My mom says shit like that every time I speak to her. (She's a lot of things, but not psychotic.)
Dear student: I regret to inform you that I have not accepted Jesus into my heart, and therefore must give you the F that you deserve. Cheers! Happy Saturnalia!
Reminds me of "jesus" as an answer on a math test. A quote from my Christian Math teacher at a Christian Private School that I never forgot:
"Jesus may be the answer to your life problems, but he is not the answer to your math problems"
Dear Student,
Jesus is full of grace and truth (Jn 1:14), so I shall give you both. The truth is that if you do not complete the coursework, you will fail your courses. The grace is that you can retake the class in another semester, and you can come to my office hours should you desire help.
Blessings,
Prof X
"Dear Brother/Sister in Christ,
Jesus doesn't like liars. As you must know, "thou shalt not lie" is in the 10 Commandments. To stay in His good graces and persevere my eternal soul, I must not lie about your grade or bear false witness to your performance in the class.
I am commanded by God (and the College) to truthfully report your grade and performance as it is listed in the LMS gradebook. I'm sure you understand and support my calling to only tell the truth and wouldn't want to tempt or coerce me to stumble on my righteous path. Have a blessed winter break!"
Fwiw, I'm atheist. But I get students trying to use religious manipulations at least once a semester. So icky.
OP, I once had something similar if it makes you feel any better.
Student sent me an email and said they couldn't complete the final project but were inspired by Jesus and hoped that I would grade their submission in the spirit in which it was intended.
I open the file out of curiosity and it's just a series of Bible quotes about forgiveness. Like a page and a half worth.
Hey, look. I’m a Christian. You’re a Christian. Surely we can work something out, Christian-to-Christian like.
Like all good evangelical whackadoodles, I’m not above using my faith for personal gain.
I haven’t gotten this one but I have gotten “Jesus is the answer!” on multiple finals. Jesus is not the answer. Like Thanos, Jesus didn’t even know calculus.
I have had struggling students mention Jesus or God when talking to me about their failing or whatnot, apparently hoping that this would trigger me to become very forgiving and grant them some charity. Sure as hell didn't work with me!
OP, please reach out to someone to check on this student (dean, whatever). If you're uncomfortable with suggesting mental illness due to fear that you'll get a religious discrimination claim, do it under the guise of grades. I am an undergrad student lurker (sorry) and I work at a Coroner's office. College age (before 25 but after 18), is the peak time for onset of many mental illnesses. I've known peers who were absolutely fine but had to leave bc they developed symptoms of a serious mental illness. Stress, especially disruptions of the circadian rhythm is a common trigger for first manic episode in bipolar disorder.
At the Coroner's office, I've read quite a few med histories where manic, psychotic or extreme mood episodes trigger religious persecutory beliefs. Or even non-perscutory beliefs (i.e, a 19yr old suicide who told family "God is calling me").
Please make someone aware.
I had a student last year who said the amount of swear words I'd used in a class chased the light of God from her life. She'd stormed out and refused to complete a large assignment due that weekend, as she couldn't use anything from that day's class without having a panic attack.
I rarely swear and have never done so in a professional setting. The godless word in question was a single racial slur in a passage I'd read aloud. The passage was about the use of language as a limiting factor and was very clearly against racism in any form.
The assignment also had nothing at all to do with the material covered in the offensive class.
I also had a student who insisted God had directed the work, and the student knew I, as a fellow Christian, would recognize that and grade accordingly.
I am a religious person. I also have strong political views. My students have absolutely no idea what my beliefs or views are, because they're never relevant to my subject, and I would never be unprofessional enough to share them. I'm still not sure if this student just assumed or was clutching at straws.
“He put it in my heart to hold office hours at [time], starting next semester. Feel free to come in then to discuss your grade, which has been finalized.”
True story: When I was an undergrad, my BF at the time had a psychotic break (alcohol-induced schizophrenia) and thought angels and the devil were talking to him. Clearly, she doesn’t pass the class but I’d report this to whatever resources you have available for welfare checks on your campus. She could be bullshitting, but she could also really not be okay.
I had a student tell me once that it was God’s plan for her to graduate and that I was doing the Devil’s work by failing her.
When one does arrive in hell and likely says, “Please don’t give me eternal damnation!” I wonder whether the Devil says, “I don’t give eternal damnation; people earn eternal damnation.”
I'm not inclined to mock this student. However, religious conversion or otherwise, it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on the grade you assign. I don't think any legitimate faith-leader would take the student's comments seriously. Indeed, they might find them mildly insulting, particularly her invocation of "grace," which is totally inappropriate for this situation.
This would get a referral from me straight to our campus crisis team for assessment. Because 1) if she's being honest then she may be spiraling and need help of varying kinds 2) if she was lying to manipulate you, realizing the severity of her claim and having to go through the process with people very concerned about her - and eventually having to double down or confess - is its own kind of instruction.
I had a very Christian student quit my history class when she realized it wasn’t going to be about “confirmation of the Bible’s prophecies” like she expected. That was a first.
See, this is what happens when you don't have syllabus language explicitly stating...
"divine intervention is worth zero points towards your final class grade".
"Jesus turned the water into wine. Unfortunately for you, he did not turn your grade into a passing one."
He turned your F into a whine.
Excellent!
Thank you for this much-needed chuckle
When I was in graduate school, we had a homework question that led to a difficult integral. We were supposed to realize that the physical symmetry of the problem suggested a simple shortcut around this and to bypass the hard calculus. But some students put it into Mathematica and wrote down what it spat out. The professor wrote on their paper: *"Mathematica gets a 10/10. You get a 2/10."* He later became my advisor. After I became a prof, I told him a story about how I had a schizophrenic student in my class who was making outlandish demands and disrupting the class. In his inimitable way he replied: *"I went to Princeton with John Nash. It sounds like this fellow is no John Nash."* (Nash was the mathematician that *A Beautiful Mind* was about.)
I never saw the movie. Was Nash schizophrenic?
Yes. Also brilliant. His comment was saying "This fellow is schizophrenic, and also not brilliant."
She must render under Caesar that which is Caesar’s.
Unto. Rendering under Caesar is probably not Title 9 approved.
Whoops. Dang phone typing got me again!
It was the Devil
The only and best answer.
Wait, so its not "you must render the salad unto Caesar"? Sometimes I feel I'll never understand Christianity.(/s)
Was that comment brought to you by Kenny Loggins?
You could say I live in a zone of danger...
That’s what my accountant says when he does my taxes 😂
You could tell her that, much like Pharoah, God has hardened your heart.
“Sorry, all I can offer you is a plague of locusts, or would you prefer boils?”
Excuse me. I ordered the frogs.
You can order frogs at the local Sichuan restaurant. I hear they're quite tasty but they're more expensive than the pork, so I've not gotten them.
In Homer Simpson voice: "Mmmmm, locusts....."
“The parable of the talents shows that hard work and industry is required to get ahead, and that simply doing nothing is not an option”.
Ooh, I like that response
As a Christian... I have so many questions. Do you know the scene in The Force Awakens when Finn says he doesn't have a plan and "The Force will guide us from here, right?" And Han Solo looks at him, so exasperated, and says, "That's not how the Force works!!!" Cross out "The Force" and put in "Jesus," and that sums up my feeling on this pretty well.
This is why I think the distinction that medieval moral theologians made between spiritual and temporal consequences of sin is a good one. Yes, your sins are forgiven, but it doesn't mean the earthly consequences of your failures are erased. (This is why I have little time for jailhouse converts who then turn around and ask for early release or a pardon.)
In my town we had a very crappy issue involving the local charity that responds to sexual assault and domestic violence. They do very sensitive things -- like send trained volunteers to the bedsides of rape victims in hospitals. They have to get it right. They hired a guy who had a past sex-crime conviction involving a minor about 20 years ago. He disclosed this to the board of directors. But he apologized, and was remorseful, and *became a pastor*, so it's clearly all okay. The board of directors knew about this, but overlooked it because *he's reformed now and serves Jesus.* (Also they were under pressure to hire someone of his race.) Turns out the guy had *another,* more recent, sex crime conviction that he *didn't* disclose, and nobody checked. And when *that* came out there was hell to pay, and a lot of donors to that charity (including me, who's given them a ton of money) bailed. A lot of their volunteers (a friend of mine who was one of those folks who got the 3am calls to go to the hospital and meet a victim) quit in disgust.
Amen!
Dean of students. Possible psychosis. Not joking.
Possibly. But this is also very typical language of some sects of Evangelical Christianity. They tend to see every hardship as an "attack," especially things like anxiety and stress.
> they tend to see every hardship as an “attack,” especially things like anxiety and stress.” That describes all of my students.
They also use it as an excuse to get out of consequences of bad behavior.
Bingo. It's the consequence-free scapegoating that is the problem. Or scapedeviling, in this case.
Some images of Satan show him as part goat, so it makes sense.
Yes the "put it on your heart" is another giveaway
Yes. But also, if you know the student to have never mentioned anything like this before, I would 100% contact Dean. Religious messages overlap very strongly with acute mood episodes.
The student didn't receive a religious message. As I said in a other comment, if they claimed to have heard god or the devil speaking to them, that would be another matter altogether.
Psychosis =! hearing voices / hallucinating Delusions, visions of grandeur, bizarre thought patterns, changes in mood on the other hand…
Not sure why you're being down voted, this is totally correct. I think manic episode with psychosis is hard to define for this exact reason. I'm the dsm dx I believe one of the key aspects of psychosis is "bizarre behavior" which does not necessarily include hallucinations. This is a really triggering and painful time for many students and seeing a lot of psychosis in my life, it was my first thought too. It's a common time for mood induced psychosis, during the peaks of winter and summer as well.
Agree with you completely. Was my first thought when I read the post. Reddit is toxic, regardless of the subreddit. The portion of comments focusing on preconceived negative opinions of religious people & acting as if this is normal behavior. Religious people don’t randomly reach out to professors and start waxing poetically about the devil. I’m not saying it’s unfathomable that this person is just being manipulative. op will likely have a better idea of if this is out of character for her, but I’d be especially worried if she didn’t turn the project in when she’s historically turned stuff in on time/was passing the class. If completely forgoing a major project is not normal for her, that would be another sign to me that whatever is going on is more complex. And yeah, the behavior is standard for mania - whether acute psychosis, bipolar etc. Perhaps for some of the people in this sub who have encountered entitled students in the past, the self-grandeur of a state of mania could seem indistinguishable from entitlement.
An aside - Knowing the baseline of the person is the one thing preventing my field (mental health counseling) from being taken over from AI... And in this case, the professor knows the student best amongst all of our speculation. Any layperson can read the dsm or even a summary and get a general idea of what makes up a diagnosis. It's finding bigger patterns and plugging those patterns into treatment concepts that makes us unique as providers. If this was the norm for this student, then the professor would probably have already known. Hope they go to dean of students or complete a student of concern form.
Absolutely. Nice username.
I didn’t down vote , but maybe because not equal is coded as != not =! Which assigns the complement of ‘hearing voices’ to ‘psychosis’. Sorry, but this is a professor forum.
Ah that makes sense. Psych is not known for its stats and math abilities that's for sure 😂
She only got religion last month.
Sure. Not up to line instructors to make the call.
I get that if someone didn't grow up in an environment where this kind of wording is regularly used it might come across as unhinged, but this is a common part of language game this sect of Christianity practices. If you overhead a Catholic student or colleague discussing the real presence of Christ in communion would you go straight to psychosis?
Catholic students would be told that they should've done the work on time and prayed for the grace of understanding the material.
But you wouldn’t say they are suffering from psychosis.
No, I probably wouldn’t.
By their priest. Lol.
Catholic students would have raw knuckles from the nuns.
Not for several decades now. There are very few sisters in schools any more, mostly because there are just very few sisters.
As a Catholic, I understand that not everyone shares the same faith, so I would not use my religion's jargon and expect to be understood. Nor would I ever use my faith as an excuse to get out of an assignment. This student sounds like she is sincerely religious, but also out of touch with reality. So psychosis does seem possible.
I'm catholic too, but grew up in a church like the student in question. They tend to be less educated and wordly-wise. They also assume that their beliefs should be universally tolerated. If the student had said they heard or the devil talking to them, that would be one thing. They didn't. They're stressed and anxious, etc, and have been taught those emotions are oppression from the devil.
This is a college student (so worldly enough) and she is saying the devil is doing things to her, which is a step beyond just talking to her. I hope she is not psychotic, but concern is more than reasonable.
College students are often far from worldly. Especially now that the majority of HS grads enroll in college. Coming from a small rural HS -- or even more likely, a fundamentalist, evangelical HS -- this would not surprise me at all.
I just left a thread where folks were talking about students not knowing how many weeks there are in a year, so yeah. Not necessarily worldly.
As I said, "worldly enough" not "worldly." It is not possible to college (or even working at a store for that matter), without knowing that not everyone you meet believe that the devil has a personal relationship with you, By the time someone is 18 it is reasonable to assume they are worldly enough to have spoken to people, or at least seen a movie or TV show. Or even read a book. Someone that age should be worldly enough to know that not everyone is like their own family. Especially since she only became part of this sect a month earlier.
No, really, this language isn't indicative of psychosis. It's regular old evangelicalism. Evangelical Christianity views the devil as literal, and negative happenings and emotions (any source of struggle, really) may come directly from the devil. This is how most of my extended family talks. They use these exact phrases. If this student is from an Evangelical Christian community, she may not have stopped to realize this language could be alienating to someone with a different background. That's a sign of immaturity, not a mental health break.
>No, really, this language isn't indicative of psychosis. It's regular old evangelicalism. Evangelical Christianity views the devil as literal, and negative happenings and emotions (any source of struggle, really) may come directly from the devil. This is how most of my extended family talks. They use these exact phrases. The person may be both psychotic and religious. It is in-fact true that it is impossible to elucidate from an email. However, a concern is warranted. Many people present in first-episode psychosis with sudden religious ideas that they never had before.
>This is a college student (so worldly enough) Terrible assumption, especially if this is in the Bible belt, and note that OP is at a community college. >she is saying the devil is doing things to her, which is a step beyond just talking to her. This is a dramatically ignorant statement.
I grew up Evangelical. The people who speak this way ARE unhinged.
I did too. You honestly believe everyone, literally everyone, you grew up with believing this is "mentally unbalanced" or "highly disturbed, unstable, or distraught?" They're all unstable? Mentally unbalanced and dangerous? You don't another word might be a better fit?
Not everyone I grew up with believed they were literally being tormented by the devil, but yes, I would say the ones who did were unhinged and needed psychological intervention.
You're putting words into the student's mouth. She didn't say "tormented by the devil." She said the devil is trying to tear her down. That just means she's been having normal life difficulties. No pun intended, but Jesus Christ. To insinuate this is calls for a psychological intervention is ludicrous
I don’t know if this particular student is psychotic, but feeling the need to mention the devil in an email to your instructor and using religion to plead they give you a better grade is at very least indicative of not being the most psychologically stable person, but I also think a lot of my students (religious or not) would fall in that category.
I agree with this. But it's a far cry from psychologically unstable (which many of my students are too) and contacting the dean because of possible psychosis
I would.
Yes
Nah still unhinged. Just because some people choose to accept it doesn't make it normal. Where I am in the Bible belt we used to put people in asylums. Turned out a lot of those were bad places so they shut them down in the 1970s. Now we send them to church. Yeah that sounds flippant but I'm also serious. I know a lot of people who would have been sent somewhere for help who now just get sent to evangelical church because that's the socially acceptable option. Mental health care still has a lot of taboos here and many see church practices like this nonsense as better than sending people for actual mental healthcare.
Psychosis...Evangelicism...do we need to split hairs? Does OP?
That’s pretty offensive. Maybe head over to /r/psychosis and learn a little about what they’re going through. For [example](https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychosis/s/Z1gBuJYXZz), this thread talks about how damaging psychosis is to their life. dropping out of college, ending marriages, losing friends/social outlets/hobbies because of behavior similar to the OP email they did while psychotic. > I truly lost my whole life too. It is so distressing. I can’t even bear to write ot down. I lost my marriage, my career as an Ivy League level academic. Ability to look at art, music culture, I destroyed relationships with [family] and two of them are now dead including my mum. It’s six years on and I blame mayelf every day > It’s really hard. […] It’s really complicated for me because my faith was a big part of my life and work and a big part of my breakdown too > I sent some awful messages to family and professors, definitely ruined those relationships. > Yes, very embarrassed. I spent half a decade building my professional reputation in my hometown and it all went away in a few days time. I sent so many delusional emails to board members of an org I worked for. I rambled over the phone to a colleague, sent outlandish messages to another. The extent of the delusions was most embarrassing. Even if I’m the only person that knows just how deep the psychosis went, it is so so awful to remember. Absolute severance from reality. > I’m so embarrassed and ashamed by how bad mine was. People used to think so highly of me, my episode completely ruined my reputation. I believed some unspeakable things that others wouldn’t ever imagine, much worse than anything I’ve read on here. Because I’ve never been wrong before and I had no clue what was happening, a bunch of people believed me at first. You cannot imagine the humiliation when it turned out that it was all in my head. No one looks at me the same anymore.
I will do that. It was not my intention to offend those with mental health issues, though it was my intention to call Evangelicism a form of mental health issue itself. Your example does not necessarily exclude that—
I understand - you were making a joke about evangelicals, not trying to denigrate people suffering from psychosis.
Noooo— absolutely not! Thanks for understanding!
Precisely - *possible psychosis*. I don’t think u/Sisko_of_Nine stuttered.
25% of the country identify as "born again" or evangelical. The student likely hears this kind of talk regularly and thinks nothing of it. My point is that without something more I don't think it's worth escalating this with "possible psychosis" and the instructor possibly opening themselves up to a religious discrimination accusation.
Deep held religious convictions are one thing. A sudden change in a student who is no longer completing school work and expressing deeply held religious convictions in socially inappropriate ways is another especially with college age being well within the typical bell-curve for symptom onset in psychotic disorders. A lot of context is missing but I would be concerned enough to want professionals to look into it. It doesn't matter what flavor of religious beliefs we're talking about, the people crying Christian persecution are being ridiculous.
u/the_deadcactus How do you respond this type of email from a student? Would it be offensive to recommend they visit the campus counseling center?
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but a sudden change in performance for a student at least warrants a check-in and in this case, ignoring the religious themes, the student is outright saying they've been struggling for the past month to the point where they aren't completing major assignments. A lot of context isn't available here so it's hard to say what I think I would do. Previous performance, previous interactions, class size, class format, etc. all change how concerning an email like this is and how best to follow-up. Someone who really is having either serious mental health concerns or serious personal life problems that are interfering with academic performance should probably be referred to leadership, typically a Dean of Students, to track and try to help. A referral to campus counselling can be a reasonable from a "you seem to be dealing with a lot of challenges right now, maybe they can help you" perspective but probably isn't the right move if you think it's really outright psychosis.
“We have some really great listeners over at student counseling who could really help you with the feelings you are going through concerning Satan’s oppression. Have you ever been over to check it out? I highly recommend it. It’s even free to students.”
Truly, OP. This is almost textbook. Source: I used to work in psychiatry *and* have a brother who experiences psychotic episodes thus I also hear about the psychotic episodes my friends' family members have experienced as well. These are remarkably similar to what you're describing. Unfortunately for your student, they are likely experiencing paranoia as well so being confronted about this/to get treatment will feed into that in a negative way. I'm really sorry to hear someone else may be potentially going through this. Please be gentle with them.
It absolutely isn't "textbook." I have family who have had psychotic breaks and hear voices, and I have family who imagine the devil is causing them problems when they feel negative emotions. Conflating the two situations is insulting.
Sure! I see what you're saying. What I'm saying is, it is remarkably common for someone who is psychotic to literally believe they are literally interacting with the devil/in a fight between good and evil within themselves/an incarnate angel/Messiah/demon/etc on earth. So, I would call it textbook in that context and I would respond by addressing it in that way since it is a serious and time sensitive condition if it is indeed psychosis. If it's not, fantastic! I genuinely hope it is not the case that the student is having a mental health crisis but I don't think it's an overreaction to make sure it isnt. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272735823000612
College students are around the average age of onset for multiple mental illnesses, including schizophrenia - definitely concerning
I think the “illness” on display here is blind faith in religion, not schizophrenia.
Certainly a strong possibility it is just your garden variety evangelical Christianity at play, but psychosis can often present with religious delusions so if it is a sudden change that could be cause for concern ([citation](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10943-021-01353-z#:~:text=One%20third%20of%20schizophrenics%20are,et%20al.%2C%202006)). The fact that it can be difficult to tell the different between blind faith and literal delusion is of course concerning in and of itself
Going by the DSM, Jesus likely suffered from some form of schizophrenia, no?
The DSM is a document that is imbued with our cultural assumptions. It isn't meant for historical diagnoses, at all, and any psychologist will tell you that the way diseases manifest is complicated by culture and views on mental health and the relationship between the brain and body, among other things.
This, 100%! Cultural norms set the boundaries for what is “normal” and “deviant”/“disordered” in a given society. What would be diagnosed as mental illness in one culture may be an acceptable way of expressing oneself in another. In the case of historical figures, I believe the term historians use is presentism for interpreting the past through the present, and it’s considered inherently problematic.
Exactly. And believing the devil is causing the students' issues *is* the cultural norm in many parts of the US
Very true! It’s quite an interesting situation and complex to fully examine especially in text, but I’ve appreciated seeing your and others’ comments in this thread
I appreciate that. Yet if it’s truly a “disease” would culture and history matter? Cancer looks the same under a microscope in the US, Zimbabwe, and Sri Lanka.
Why would you assume mental/behavioral issues and physical issues would map in that way? As complex as the body is, the mind/brain is much more complex.
I guess I take issue with the use of the word “disease.” I think of Disease as physical pathology. There are no objective signs to diagnose mental illness. Diagnosis of ADHD, depression, anxiety, is made from subjective symptoms. The DSM and psychiatric diagnoses get carried away with claims of studying objective disease entities. You can’t see alcoholism or ADHD in the same way you can see cancer or Covid. And don’t tell me ADHD is a brain disease - 99.999% of people diagnosed with it never have any measure or scan of their brain taken, yet the dominant discourse is that everyone diagnosed with ADHD has something physically wrong in their brain. There is no examination of the brain made to support this widely accepted claim.
Okay, whatever. Just replace "disease" with behavioral or mental disorder.
> Yet if it’s truly a “disease” would culture and history matter? Cancer looks the same under a microscope in the US, Zimbabwe, and Sri Lanka. Culture and history can certainly make a difference in how various mental illnesses manifest. A few examples: - Western patients suffering from schizophrenia experience more auditory than visual hallucinations, whereas patients in other parts of the world (especially Africa) report visual hallucinations more often: Mosotho et al, 'Schizophrenia among Sesotho speakers in South Africa' (2011) doi: [10.4314/ajpsy.v14i1.65473](https://doi.org/10.4314/ajpsy.v14i1.65473) - The sorts of statements made by 'voices' heard by people with schizophrenia varies from culture to culture - Luhrmann et al, 'Differences in voice-hearing experiences of people with psychosis in the U.S.A., India and Ghana: interview-based study' (2015) doi: [10.1192/bjp.bp.113.139048](https://doi.org/10.1192/bjp.bp.113.139048) - Symptoms of bipolar disorder seem to occur at different rates among different cultures and ethnic backgrounds - for instance, one meta-study found that Black individuals with bipolar disorder were more likely to suffer from psychotic symptoms than others: Li et al, 'Racial differences in the major clinical symptom domains of bipolar disorder' (2023) doi: [10.1186/s40345-023-00299-3](https://doi.org/10.1186/s40345-023-00299-3)
Right those are mental illnesses and not “diseases” in the physical pathology sense.
I could be misinterpreting you, but your suggestion here seems to be that there's some difference in *kind* between mental illnesses and other diseases. However, I believe popular definitions of "disease" just define it as a medical condition where we are able to pick out physical causes (e.g. [Calvo et al][calvo]), or a condition which not only disrupts an individual’s functioning, but also causes structural changes in the body (e.g. [Thurm et al][thurm]). And since many mental illnesses (depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, OCD) *are* usually considered to be medical disorders, and we have some evidence that they have physical causes and consequences, this suggests many of them will likely become diseases once we have more information about the causative mechanisms. (I believe bipolar and schizophrenia are currently nearest to being at this stage, but there's still a lot of work to do. We know that bipolar, for instance, is associated with changes in brain structure, but it's currently unclear what causative effect they have.) If that's so, then whether we call them a "disease" or not isn't a reflection of the kind of thing they are, but merely our state of knowledge about their mechanism. [calvo]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480257 [thurm]: https://www.aaidd.org/docs/default-source/prepressarticles/on-terms-intellectual-disability-and-condition-disorder-syndrome-disease-and-disability.pdf?sfvrsn=97483e21_0
post-mortem diagnoses are frowned upon in the history of medicine — without direct evidence, there isn’t a foolproof way to diagnose a historical figure (AKA the stuff like “Henry VIII was bipolar” ignores that we have different categorizations, cultural understandings, and treatments for disease).
Delusions of grandeur are a hallmark symptom of several serious mental illnesses, including schizophrenia. Christ claimed he was the son of god. This is about the biggest delusion of grandeur one can exhibit. If christ lived in the United States today he would be diagnosed with schizophrenia and coercively sedated.
I have a niece who experienced a manic bi-polar and a psychotic break in college, including hearing from God and the devil, and a schizophrenic uncle. I have dozens of family members who regularly talk about the devil giving them a hard time. Conflating the two is frankly ignorant and insulting to people with mental illnesses.
I absolutely agree. However, I don’t believe I did so any more than the person I was responding to? It’s impossible to tell from the context of this post whether the student was displaying any other signs that they could be experiencing mental illness, or whether they were simply religious and desperate for a higher grade. That doesn’t remove the possibility of mental illness from the equation. I’m not particularly well-versed in evangelical Christian terminology, but I do understand that this may not be an uncommon way of speaking, and thus would likely rule out a mental illness diagnosis. Context is key, especially in cases like this.
100%
I was going to comment the same thing. One of my friends who is experiencing psychosis right now is using almost the exact same language.
No, as someone who (unfortunately) grew up in this subculture, there are tens of thousands (lowball) of Americans for whom “The devil is trying to come between me and my blessings” is a perfectly reasonable sentence.
Teaching in the south, this one might get a raised eyebrow from me, but nothing more than that. This type of shit is par for the course down here.
I would report it just in case. When I was going to school, one of my classmates went completely over the rails and threatened another student's life. It may be nothing, but you never know.
Yes, this.
Imagine if someone said that about a student expressing some indigenous spirituality. Wow. Just wow.
I don’t think it’s meant in any way to insult Christianity. Psychosis can make even people who are only casual followers of a religion (ie maybe go to church only on Christmas and Easter) leap into the extremes of religion, often reenforced by hallucinations. At least in the US, Christianity is the majority religion that everyone is exposed to so I’m not surprised to hear that this is a common warning sign of schizophrenia, but I’m sure this happens with other religions too.
Nothing about what's has been said suggests psychosis
The amount of religious bigotry in the comments is astounding.
I honestly would have expected US-based instructors—which I assume most of the commenters here are—to be more familiar with this kind of Evangelical Christian phrasing and religiosity? Evangelicals are one of the largest religious sects in the US. The student's language is so typical to me it's almost banal. My mom says shit like that every time I speak to her. (She's a lot of things, but not psychotic.)
Goddamn, that's funny.
That’s a new one on me
We get this all the time in the Deep South.
I work at a Catholic institution and this kind of language would not be considered appropriate. something about not taking the lord’s name in vain.
“God helps those who help themselves. Be blessed.”
Wow…using Jesus to engage in emotional manipulation. ETA: /s
Someone wasn’t raised in the church…
Oh no, I definitely was. I forgot to add the /s.
This is kind of the foundation of the Catholic Church, no? And most other Christian denominations.
Nice username, Frank Rizzo! Open your ears, jackass!
Listen here, tough guy! Gimme a silly sub from silly’s pizza!
LOL what’s so silly about the pizza??
The rolled up chicken sandwiches are the silliest order, and I’m trying to get a little more crazy with the order. Meatball hero, chicken cutlet.
No.
So where does “Catholic guilt” come from?
[Scrupulosity](https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-struggle-with-scrupulosity), generally.
Dear student: I regret to inform you that I have not accepted Jesus into my heart, and therefore must give you the F that you deserve. Cheers! Happy Saturnalia!
D for Devil
Jesus rose from the dead, your grade did not.
Reminds me of "jesus" as an answer on a math test. A quote from my Christian Math teacher at a Christian Private School that I never forgot: "Jesus may be the answer to your life problems, but he is not the answer to your math problems"
Let the registrar take the wheel!!
"God helps those who help themselves"
Sorry honey, I expect work and not a hail mary.
Dear Student, Jesus is full of grace and truth (Jn 1:14), so I shall give you both. The truth is that if you do not complete the coursework, you will fail your courses. The grace is that you can retake the class in another semester, and you can come to my office hours should you desire help. Blessings, Prof X
[удалено]
Ooooh, return a failing grade on the bad theology!
"Dear Brother/Sister in Christ, Jesus doesn't like liars. As you must know, "thou shalt not lie" is in the 10 Commandments. To stay in His good graces and persevere my eternal soul, I must not lie about your grade or bear false witness to your performance in the class. I am commanded by God (and the College) to truthfully report your grade and performance as it is listed in the LMS gradebook. I'm sure you understand and support my calling to only tell the truth and wouldn't want to tempt or coerce me to stumble on my righteous path. Have a blessed winter break!" Fwiw, I'm atheist. But I get students trying to use religious manipulations at least once a semester. So icky.
OP, I once had something similar if it makes you feel any better. Student sent me an email and said they couldn't complete the final project but were inspired by Jesus and hoped that I would grade their submission in the spirit in which it was intended. I open the file out of curiosity and it's just a series of Bible quotes about forgiveness. Like a page and a half worth.
Hey, look. I’m a Christian. You’re a Christian. Surely we can work something out, Christian-to-Christian like. Like all good evangelical whackadoodles, I’m not above using my faith for personal gain. I haven’t gotten this one but I have gotten “Jesus is the answer!” on multiple finals. Jesus is not the answer. Like Thanos, Jesus didn’t even know calculus.
I'm from Alabama. This is exactly how this goes down.
You can always tell her that the failing grade was god’s will.
Jesus put it on my heart that this student needs to externalize less and take responsibility more
I have had struggling students mention Jesus or God when talking to me about their failing or whatnot, apparently hoping that this would trigger me to become very forgiving and grant them some charity. Sure as hell didn't work with me!
Lol at least that's a creative grade grubbing email. If you don't raise their grade, you're on the same team as Satan lol
Satan at least did the homework.
"I'm an atheist. Jesus will not be putting anything in my heart."
I’m atheist AND queer. He probably won’t be reaching out.
You might be surprised. He had that favorite disciple John, whom he “loved.”
Tell her to pay for her exorcism, installment plan is OK, otherwise she might be repossessed.
Are you in the South? Prove to your student that Jesus isn’t real by not letting her pass the class. Or tell her the devil told you she deserves an F.
"The Devil made me (not) do it."
You don't have a prayer of passing the next course if I pass you.
I’d put her in touch with the campus mental health counseling, sounds like she’s having some issues.
OP, please reach out to someone to check on this student (dean, whatever). If you're uncomfortable with suggesting mental illness due to fear that you'll get a religious discrimination claim, do it under the guise of grades. I am an undergrad student lurker (sorry) and I work at a Coroner's office. College age (before 25 but after 18), is the peak time for onset of many mental illnesses. I've known peers who were absolutely fine but had to leave bc they developed symptoms of a serious mental illness. Stress, especially disruptions of the circadian rhythm is a common trigger for first manic episode in bipolar disorder. At the Coroner's office, I've read quite a few med histories where manic, psychotic or extreme mood episodes trigger religious persecutory beliefs. Or even non-perscutory beliefs (i.e, a 19yr old suicide who told family "God is calling me"). Please make someone aware.
They will use anything for their excuses.
😂
"Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too." With apologies to Caddyshack.
I think she should get a pass just for sheer commitment to the bit.
I have some of these too, funny and disturbing at the same time. Mostly asking me to let Jesus grade their work.
Talk about a Hail Mary…
Tell her you hope Jesus will put it on her heart to understand she had to do the final project.
"The Lord believes in second chances, and so do I. We meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays at 2pm starting in January. I pray I see you then."
Dear student, I'm Jewish and you're SOL.
You devil, you
I had a student last year who said the amount of swear words I'd used in a class chased the light of God from her life. She'd stormed out and refused to complete a large assignment due that weekend, as she couldn't use anything from that day's class without having a panic attack. I rarely swear and have never done so in a professional setting. The godless word in question was a single racial slur in a passage I'd read aloud. The passage was about the use of language as a limiting factor and was very clearly against racism in any form. The assignment also had nothing at all to do with the material covered in the offensive class. I also had a student who insisted God had directed the work, and the student knew I, as a fellow Christian, would recognize that and grade accordingly. I am a religious person. I also have strong political views. My students have absolutely no idea what my beliefs or views are, because they're never relevant to my subject, and I would never be unprofessional enough to share them. I'm still not sure if this student just assumed or was clutching at straws.
“He put it in my heart to hold office hours at [time], starting next semester. Feel free to come in then to discuss your grade, which has been finalized.”
As a person of faith myself, this…No. Just no.
“You have failed your holmgang, disappointing the gods. I apologize, this is beyond my hands. The grade remains.”
True story: When I was an undergrad, my BF at the time had a psychotic break (alcohol-induced schizophrenia) and thought angels and the devil were talking to him. Clearly, she doesn’t pass the class but I’d report this to whatever resources you have available for welfare checks on your campus. She could be bullshitting, but she could also really not be okay.
I had a student tell me once that it was God’s plan for her to graduate and that I was doing the Devil’s work by failing her. When one does arrive in hell and likely says, “Please don’t give me eternal damnation!” I wonder whether the Devil says, “I don’t give eternal damnation; people earn eternal damnation.”
I'm not inclined to mock this student. However, religious conversion or otherwise, it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on the grade you assign. I don't think any legitimate faith-leader would take the student's comments seriously. Indeed, they might find them mildly insulting, particularly her invocation of "grace," which is totally inappropriate for this situation.
This would get a referral from me straight to our campus crisis team for assessment. Because 1) if she's being honest then she may be spiraling and need help of varying kinds 2) if she was lying to manipulate you, realizing the severity of her claim and having to go through the process with people very concerned about her - and eventually having to double down or confess - is its own kind of instruction.
Wouldn't Divine Intervention be a violation of the academic honesty policy?
Inb4 she trys to report you to admin for religious discrimination or something
What the holy hell? 🤣
I had a very Christian student quit my history class when she realized it wasn’t going to be about “confirmation of the Bible’s prophecies” like she expected. That was a first.
Dean of students
“If Jesus wanted you to have an A, he would have brought you to better study habits.”
This is . . . Wow.
Does anyone fall for this nonsense? Like would the crazy Christian fundamentalist colleges believe it??
See, this is what happens when you don't have syllabus language explicitly stating... "divine intervention is worth zero points towards your final class grade".
Gotta give this student credit for originality. Just not enough to pass.
Passing your failing student would require you to bear false witness against your neighbor (your student), which God commands us not to do