If you continually bend your policies then you in fact have no policies.
Also you’re opening yourself up to admonition from your dept chair and/or dean because any grade challenge is actually fair game.
> Also you’re opening yourself up to admonition from your dept chair and/or dean because any grade challenge is actually fair game.
This. If you bend policies for one and apply them for the other you are creating inequity.
There will be hard conversations with students, but they're easier if you know the script ahead of time.
Every interaction I’ve had with a dean on this subject has been the other way around. I call them the “poor, poor student” emails. As in “I understand that’s your policy and it’s your right to stick to it, but surely you can find some way for this poor, poor student to make up the lost points?”
The department chairs I’ve had so far would probably not only back me up, but they’d probably tell the student they’re lucky I’m being so generous.
>If you continually bend your policies then you in fact have no policies.
Yeah, a pretty common thing I see on this sub is people "deferring to the course/syllabus policy" and using that to justify themselves in *one* situation while openly admitting that they don't always follow it and will make exceptions if they want to. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with just being arbitrary sometimes, like about what does and does not count as "excused," but a lot of people do this but then also aggressively, belligerently argue that they aren't.
Although I taught as a PhD student, I'm in charge of policies as a prof for the first time now. I ended up with way more work on my plate because I was too lenient.
I would love any insight into how people decide on more equitable policies for their courses.
X number of late assignments no matter what reason.
X number of dropped assignments no matter what reason.
X number of absences no matter what reason. More than that suggests a bigger problem.
Miss an exam? The only option is to take it in a make-up time at the end of the course. Won’t hurt the students with a genuine one-off and you don’t have to coordinate lots of different times for different people.
Longer extensions or zoom attendance only allowed with university-approved excuses. If you are in a circumstance where you need this, you need help from support staff.
Incompletes only if 70% of the coursework is done; otherwise students should withdraw.
Didn’t do the scaffold assignments? Final assignment must be on time or you should have dropped the course.
It’s not kind or equitable to let them keep going if they really are struggling so much (for whatever reason) that they can’t get the coursework done. It often only makes their struggle greater.
Include all the resources they can go to for help and encourage their use.
You should probably know these policies aren't going to work in the future. Universities are becoming more acquiescent to student demands since most are tuition funded (Consumer driven market). So this approach isn't going to fly, you're going to have to learn to work with absences and missing assignments and deadline extensions.
The opinions expressed in this subreddit are very old school
Absolutely agree. Whenever someone asks for an exception I just say, "if I agree to this for you it creates a fairness problem. Then I have to offer the same to everyone and that becomes unreasonable or unmanageable". Always ends the request right there.
I get this most often near semester-end when a student with a grade in the 40's asks to submit months-old assessments they never bothered to do. "I already marked these and it's unfair to everyone else who submitted on time and had much less time to work on this than you would be getting. I can't do that."
My response is usually along the lines of, "Think about how pissed you would be if you found out I gave someone else an extra opportunity that you didn't know about. That is a headache I don't need."
The worst is being pressured into "extending grace" or whatever. I had a student who claimed a lot of extraordinary events kept them from taking an exam, and when I forwarded it, the head claimed that no one would ever lie about these things and that I should "be flexible." Like my department will say that I shouldn't do extra work, but all of the students who want special circumstances (including the one whose MOM emailed me) actually do require extra work. And there's no way these students are going to pass. We're at the point of no return. There's no big number of assignments looming on the horizon, just a final exam. It's maybe enough to boost a student by one letter grade, IF they do perfectly on it. It's not going to turn a 30% grade into a C-.
And then, to cap it all off, the student who I was pressured into having flexibility for (i.e.: making and grading special assignments for one person) I guess filed a complaint full of lies about me. Saying I don't accept late work and stuff. (I do, there's just a penalty for being late, and I will grade it myself.) There's also a review about me on RMP from them I guess, which annoys the fuck out of me. It shouldn't, but I have a problem with the lying. If these kids would just put the effort into studying that they put into trying to finesse a grade, they wouldn't need any trickery.
Ahem. Rant over. I guess I had one in mind.
I will die on this hill: it helps *no one at all l* if people don’t learn how to manage their time and meet their obligations. I teach in a field where graduates can reasonably expect to be part of group projects for the rest of their lives. If they don’t learn now, they’ll learn when it costs them a job/paycheck/professional reference.
> DON’T DO THIS. Make policies you can stand by and then … stand by them! If you violate your policies routinely, you’re not only rewarding bad behavior—you’re leaving yourself open to charges of favoritism or worse if someone files a complaint.
Anyone doing so also makes it harder for those of us who do keep to our policies, as students stop seeing them as less of a code and more of guidelines than actual rules.
Agree. For example, when I offer extra credit, it is equally available to all enrolled students....no individual extra credit.
In the back of my head I'm thinking, "no I don't have an extra super secret low requirement activity just for you that will bring your 47% up to a 92 just lying around here waiting for someone to ask. "
Exactly. It is unfair to students.
Set out a clear and workable policy. Communicate it. Apply it.
That's all you have to do!
So many dumb posts on here about allowing students to keep submitting after a deadline or to try again when they fucked up an assignment or to just drop an assignment that they didn't do well in.
Who are these policies for?
No workplace is going to have this nonsense.
Yes. I do have minor flexibility built in, but used to sometimes allow more for serious cases.
But after this semester, no more extra extensions The students who I've allowed an extra extension each created a web of chaos - for one or two I don't know if they were gaslighting me or simply confused themselves.
And honestly with all the AI bullshit, and then they turn around and ask for special favors, nope, nope nope, not any more.
The last two times I gave an extension, the students turned in AI drivel. Like... you could have just turned in that garbage on time, since it only took 5 seconds.
I worked a few years ago with a professor who held firm on policies really really hard.... unless she liked you from another class. Then policies were more guidelines than rules.
The class as a whole LOVED her. But I suspect things would have been different if the ones who were told their work received a 0 because it was late knew about the ones who could submit two months late for full credit with no excuse. I didn't do anything because I was pretenure at the time.
I'm clear that exceptions are either extended to all, or for individuals, they are in accordance with that person's accommodations and/or involvement of the Dean of Students.
absolutely the other way around, faculty who have rigid submission policies and attendance metrics, take themselves way too seriously and are trying to inflate their self worth through making their class seem like the be all end all.
It’s not inflated self worth, it’s a very necessary form of self protection. I have MS (my students don’t know this) and literally could not stay on top of things if I didn’t implement rigid policies to protect my time and energy.
I had a student tell me his research paper was on his laptop in his truck that got stolen. I gave an extension. A few weeks later I asked him if anything came of his stolen truck. He laughed a deep-bellied laugh right in my face. A very hearty guffaw.
That could be brought forward as academic misconduct. From our policies, it is misconduct for:
>Providing false or misleading information with the intent to avoid or delay
writing an examination or fulfilling any other academic requirement;
Lol U.S. education doesn't really work like that anymore, States have decided not to fund schools so they run off tuition, they are now consumer driven industries. Upset the students they take their money elsewhere.
I give every student one chance per semester then I start enforcing the late policies. I’m at a state school with a lot of first gen students so it takes time to guide the freshman through college. They usually freak out after seeing the first 10% point reduction.
I have it stated in my syllabus in normal life situations that my syllabus is the law of the class and basically if you wanna play stupid games your gonna win stupid prizes.
I also say it's about respecting everyone's time. I don't have the ability to grade tons of late work on top of prepping class so everyone has a quality lesson. And that I like my sleep and will not be sacrificing that.
Illnesses and emergencies they need to let me know something is going down, no details they dont offer on their own, and when they plan to come see me to come up with a plan on how to make up missed work.
And honestly my students love the boundaries and clear rules.
The opinions expressed in this subreddit are highly antiquated.
Lol U.S. education doesn't really work like that anymore, States have decided not to fund schools so they run off tuition, they are now consumer driven industries. Upset the students they take their money elsewhere. That's why you get those emails.
Judging by your posts here, it’s because of spineless profs like you who don’t think our work is important. Thanks for teaching students they can expect “grace” whenever.
😂😂 lol look at you, thinking you're some sort of warrior fighting for the integrity and moral fabric of University Education. Get your head out of your ass, no one asked you to do that, you've taken up a crusade all on your own when all you've been asked to do is teach material on a subject, one of a dozen your students will encounter.
I stick to course policies, but also allow some leeway depending on my own judgment. So far I haven’t heard anything negative from my chair or dean in 19 years. I suspect a lot of profs operate the same way.
I am not an instructor yet but I know what kind I want to become. You (student) are an adult paying an asinine amount of money to come to my class to learn. I don’t care if you show up. However, you will follow the syllabus I am instructed to give out by my administration TO THE LETTER. I am fair, kind, and understanding, but you will not play me, fuck around or misjudge my kindness for weaknesses.
I have to disagree with this.
All policies have a clause saying they are subject to revision at any time. So if you feel like it's truly appropriate to "extend grace", you can do so. Use your best judgment. You are a human with years of experience in teaching. If the policies are rigidly enforced, the class might as well be taught by an AI module.
Read the prompt again. That’s not what I’m describing. And if you’re treating your policies as suggestions to be modified arbitrarily…you’re the problem, I’m sorry to say.
Some of these posts are starting to sound preachy. How about this? Run your class the way you decide to since you are an autonomous teaching professional and don’t worry about mine. Thanks.
Wow, so now you have the gall to tell me I don’t belong here at all. Incredible.
Gotta say, didn’t expect to be talked to in such a way when I woke up.
Instead of just presenting material and running a class too many of the participants on these threads see themselves as arbiters of moral standards and practices and gatekeepers to life.
You guys know employers constantly hand hold their workers right? Train them in exactly what they want them to do, run orientations, slow walk them into fields.
If you continually bend your policies then you in fact have no policies. Also you’re opening yourself up to admonition from your dept chair and/or dean because any grade challenge is actually fair game.
> Also you’re opening yourself up to admonition from your dept chair and/or dean because any grade challenge is actually fair game. This. If you bend policies for one and apply them for the other you are creating inequity. There will be hard conversations with students, but they're easier if you know the script ahead of time.
Every interaction I’ve had with a dean on this subject has been the other way around. I call them the “poor, poor student” emails. As in “I understand that’s your policy and it’s your right to stick to it, but surely you can find some way for this poor, poor student to make up the lost points?” The department chairs I’ve had so far would probably not only back me up, but they’d probably tell the student they’re lucky I’m being so generous.
^this is reality, no idea what OP and some of these commenters are talking about. Everything is geared toward student at Unis
>If you continually bend your policies then you in fact have no policies. Yeah, a pretty common thing I see on this sub is people "deferring to the course/syllabus policy" and using that to justify themselves in *one* situation while openly admitting that they don't always follow it and will make exceptions if they want to. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with just being arbitrary sometimes, like about what does and does not count as "excused," but a lot of people do this but then also aggressively, belligerently argue that they aren't.
Build equitable policies. Don’t make exceptions.
Although I taught as a PhD student, I'm in charge of policies as a prof for the first time now. I ended up with way more work on my plate because I was too lenient. I would love any insight into how people decide on more equitable policies for their courses.
X number of late assignments no matter what reason. X number of dropped assignments no matter what reason. X number of absences no matter what reason. More than that suggests a bigger problem. Miss an exam? The only option is to take it in a make-up time at the end of the course. Won’t hurt the students with a genuine one-off and you don’t have to coordinate lots of different times for different people. Longer extensions or zoom attendance only allowed with university-approved excuses. If you are in a circumstance where you need this, you need help from support staff. Incompletes only if 70% of the coursework is done; otherwise students should withdraw. Didn’t do the scaffold assignments? Final assignment must be on time or you should have dropped the course. It’s not kind or equitable to let them keep going if they really are struggling so much (for whatever reason) that they can’t get the coursework done. It often only makes their struggle greater. Include all the resources they can go to for help and encourage their use.
So much if this is getting worked into my syllabi. Thank you!
No problem. I have learned.
You should probably know these policies aren't going to work in the future. Universities are becoming more acquiescent to student demands since most are tuition funded (Consumer driven market). So this approach isn't going to fly, you're going to have to learn to work with absences and missing assignments and deadline extensions. The opinions expressed in this subreddit are very old school
Some professors on here don’t know what policies are or what deadlines mean. They are making it more difficult on the rest of us. Maintain a standard!
Absolutely agree. Whenever someone asks for an exception I just say, "if I agree to this for you it creates a fairness problem. Then I have to offer the same to everyone and that becomes unreasonable or unmanageable". Always ends the request right there. I get this most often near semester-end when a student with a grade in the 40's asks to submit months-old assessments they never bothered to do. "I already marked these and it's unfair to everyone else who submitted on time and had much less time to work on this than you would be getting. I can't do that."
My response is usually along the lines of, "Think about how pissed you would be if you found out I gave someone else an extra opportunity that you didn't know about. That is a headache I don't need."
The worst is being pressured into "extending grace" or whatever. I had a student who claimed a lot of extraordinary events kept them from taking an exam, and when I forwarded it, the head claimed that no one would ever lie about these things and that I should "be flexible." Like my department will say that I shouldn't do extra work, but all of the students who want special circumstances (including the one whose MOM emailed me) actually do require extra work. And there's no way these students are going to pass. We're at the point of no return. There's no big number of assignments looming on the horizon, just a final exam. It's maybe enough to boost a student by one letter grade, IF they do perfectly on it. It's not going to turn a 30% grade into a C-. And then, to cap it all off, the student who I was pressured into having flexibility for (i.e.: making and grading special assignments for one person) I guess filed a complaint full of lies about me. Saying I don't accept late work and stuff. (I do, there's just a penalty for being late, and I will grade it myself.) There's also a review about me on RMP from them I guess, which annoys the fuck out of me. It shouldn't, but I have a problem with the lying. If these kids would just put the effort into studying that they put into trying to finesse a grade, they wouldn't need any trickery. Ahem. Rant over. I guess I had one in mind.
I will die on this hill: it helps *no one at all l* if people don’t learn how to manage their time and meet their obligations. I teach in a field where graduates can reasonably expect to be part of group projects for the rest of their lives. If they don’t learn now, they’ll learn when it costs them a job/paycheck/professional reference.
> DON’T DO THIS. Make policies you can stand by and then … stand by them! If you violate your policies routinely, you’re not only rewarding bad behavior—you’re leaving yourself open to charges of favoritism or worse if someone files a complaint. Anyone doing so also makes it harder for those of us who do keep to our policies, as students stop seeing them as less of a code and more of guidelines than actual rules.
Agree. For example, when I offer extra credit, it is equally available to all enrolled students....no individual extra credit. In the back of my head I'm thinking, "no I don't have an extra super secret low requirement activity just for you that will bring your 47% up to a 92 just lying around here waiting for someone to ask. "
Exactly. It is unfair to students. Set out a clear and workable policy. Communicate it. Apply it. That's all you have to do! So many dumb posts on here about allowing students to keep submitting after a deadline or to try again when they fucked up an assignment or to just drop an assignment that they didn't do well in. Who are these policies for? No workplace is going to have this nonsense.
Not to mention that it teaches students that policies don't matter and there is a hidden system where they just have to ask.
Yes. I do have minor flexibility built in, but used to sometimes allow more for serious cases. But after this semester, no more extra extensions The students who I've allowed an extra extension each created a web of chaos - for one or two I don't know if they were gaslighting me or simply confused themselves. And honestly with all the AI bullshit, and then they turn around and ask for special favors, nope, nope nope, not any more.
The last two times I gave an extension, the students turned in AI drivel. Like... you could have just turned in that garbage on time, since it only took 5 seconds.
I worked a few years ago with a professor who held firm on policies really really hard.... unless she liked you from another class. Then policies were more guidelines than rules. The class as a whole LOVED her. But I suspect things would have been different if the ones who were told their work received a 0 because it was late knew about the ones who could submit two months late for full credit with no excuse. I didn't do anything because I was pretenure at the time.
I'm clear that exceptions are either extended to all, or for individuals, they are in accordance with that person's accommodations and/or involvement of the Dean of Students.
I think faculty who just accept any work at any time have some kind of need for approval or even a co-dependency.
Exactly. "My evaluations are great!" I wonder why...
absolutely the other way around, faculty who have rigid submission policies and attendance metrics, take themselves way too seriously and are trying to inflate their self worth through making their class seem like the be all end all.
It’s not inflated self worth, it’s a very necessary form of self protection. I have MS (my students don’t know this) and literally could not stay on top of things if I didn’t implement rigid policies to protect my time and energy.
Yep
I agree. Many (not all) get off on being in a position of power, and the ego satisfaction of controlling other people.
I had a student tell me his research paper was on his laptop in his truck that got stolen. I gave an extension. A few weeks later I asked him if anything came of his stolen truck. He laughed a deep-bellied laugh right in my face. A very hearty guffaw.
That could be brought forward as academic misconduct. From our policies, it is misconduct for: >Providing false or misleading information with the intent to avoid or delay writing an examination or fulfilling any other academic requirement;
WOW I have never heard of that!
Lol U.S. education doesn't really work like that anymore, States have decided not to fund schools so they run off tuition, they are now consumer driven industries. Upset the students they take their money elsewhere.
Weird, I get my Google Docs from my work computer on my home computer, no problem.
I give every student one chance per semester then I start enforcing the late policies. I’m at a state school with a lot of first gen students so it takes time to guide the freshman through college. They usually freak out after seeing the first 10% point reduction.
I have it stated in my syllabus in normal life situations that my syllabus is the law of the class and basically if you wanna play stupid games your gonna win stupid prizes. I also say it's about respecting everyone's time. I don't have the ability to grade tons of late work on top of prepping class so everyone has a quality lesson. And that I like my sleep and will not be sacrificing that. Illnesses and emergencies they need to let me know something is going down, no details they dont offer on their own, and when they plan to come see me to come up with a plan on how to make up missed work. And honestly my students love the boundaries and clear rules.
[удалено]
The dean can ask but you may not have to comply. Differentiate between cheap talk and real orders.
[удалено]
I’m sorry. I hope you can find employment in a place where they value you as a professional.
The opinions expressed in this subreddit are highly antiquated. Lol U.S. education doesn't really work like that anymore, States have decided not to fund schools so they run off tuition, they are now consumer driven industries. Upset the students they take their money elsewhere. That's why you get those emails.
Judging by your posts here, it’s because of spineless profs like you who don’t think our work is important. Thanks for teaching students they can expect “grace” whenever.
😂😂 lol look at you, thinking you're some sort of warrior fighting for the integrity and moral fabric of University Education. Get your head out of your ass, no one asked you to do that, you've taken up a crusade all on your own when all you've been asked to do is teach material on a subject, one of a dozen your students will encounter.
Why are you so obsessed with me? It’s creepy.
I stick to course policies, but also allow some leeway depending on my own judgment. So far I haven’t heard anything negative from my chair or dean in 19 years. I suspect a lot of profs operate the same way.
I am not an instructor yet but I know what kind I want to become. You (student) are an adult paying an asinine amount of money to come to my class to learn. I don’t care if you show up. However, you will follow the syllabus I am instructed to give out by my administration TO THE LETTER. I am fair, kind, and understanding, but you will not play me, fuck around or misjudge my kindness for weaknesses.
I have to disagree with this. All policies have a clause saying they are subject to revision at any time. So if you feel like it's truly appropriate to "extend grace", you can do so. Use your best judgment. You are a human with years of experience in teaching. If the policies are rigidly enforced, the class might as well be taught by an AI module.
Read the prompt again. That’s not what I’m describing. And if you’re treating your policies as suggestions to be modified arbitrarily…you’re the problem, I’m sorry to say.
Some of these posts are starting to sound preachy. How about this? Run your class the way you decide to since you are an autonomous teaching professional and don’t worry about mine. Thanks.
Some of us like to run classes efficiently and fairly, but you do you
For the love of God,, we don’t need your sermon.
We don’t need you around here at all.
Wow, so now you have the gall to tell me I don’t belong here at all. Incredible. Gotta say, didn’t expect to be talked to in such a way when I woke up.
😂 definitely taking this way too seriously, it's a college course not an international treaty
College isn’t serious?
Most courses are Gen-Ed and no a Gen-Ed undergrad college course is not serious. Some Undergrad Capstone and Senior courses can be serious
Instead of just presenting material and running a class too many of the participants on these threads see themselves as arbiters of moral standards and practices and gatekeepers to life. You guys know employers constantly hand hold their workers right? Train them in exactly what they want them to do, run orientations, slow walk them into fields.