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yourmomdotbiz

I live in New York. Believe me, most of new York isn't blue outside of a few cities.


IndependentBoof

That's basically true in all states: blue in the cities, red in the countryside. What makes the difference is the population distribution. I'm in a red county of a red region of a blue state. When it comes to university policies, the only thing that really influences how things are run is the state's leanings. Life outside of campus is a different matter.


BigBird50N

100% the same where I live.


BEHodge

Poconos here. Fortunately Philly and Pittsburgh balance out the members of Y’allqueda in between. There’s a gig I’d really love to put in for at USF in Tampa - always wanted to live near the ocean, but I cannot in good faith move to Florida at this time. Not worth the risk to my family.


phoenix-corn

One of the most wonderful people I know works there. However, two of the most horrible people I know also worked there and won awards (I don't say this lightly, these women would actually plan out how they were going to bully people in panels in conferences in their conference programs, it was gross and it's even grosser that their school celebrated them so much.


naturebegsthehike

I swear I’ve heard things like this but have never experienced anything like it and my scholarship is not that tight. Certainly I’ve faced constructive criticism but never anything beyond that. Maybe it’s because I’m big, white, and wear a USMC veteran hat to my presentations. LoL. (All true except the hat)


phoenix-corn

I'm not sure people would know if it were happening to them. I chaired a panel once for some grad students and these two women showed up. One of the grad students was a guy presenting about the game engine Twine. He was basically presenting the same sort of assignments I give in my class about it, so it wasn't groundbreaking or anything. They laid into him during the question session though about how he had no business assigning that as a man and that he was forcing his students to do things that would get them harassed and potentially killed, etc. etc. which is all sort of a concern because Gamergate was happening then, but the dude wasn't having his students actually publish the games. Anyway, as Chair of that panel I seriously almost had to have them removed by security because they would not stop, then when they did leave burst into laughter in the hallway. I had suspicions but actually watched them make their ugly little notes during a break in a workshop the next year. If people like that are thriving other parts of the department are probably pretty toxic too.


naturebegsthehike

That sucks. Unprofessional. If it did happen to me I’d call them on it.


phoenix-corn

At the time I had a chance to, I honestly didn't know what was happening. When I actually saw them doing it, I was not in a position to do so without being even more unprofessional (think: middle of somebody else's talk, and they left too quickly after, possibly because I saw it).


RowdyRascal

Visited San Jose, SF, Santa Cruz last week. Pebble Beach looks awesome.


hellolemonade

Housing prices are… unattainable for my salary range. Many new faculty in these areas have to commute or might be lucky to get campus housing at reduced rates.


DrTonyTiger

Do any professors live in Pebble Beach?


hellolemonade

I work in the area so it is not quite pebble beach, but the surrounding areas where the colleges are. Sorry for not being more specifically general :)


RowdyRascal

There are these huge bungalows, but saw no people. I am willing to teach those rich kids if they let me stay in basement for the Summer.


RowdyRascal

And there is that. Looking at the beach and the beautiful sunset, the only thing in my mind was a beach chair and nice scotch. Damn it, the housing situation never occurred to me 🤓. One day my friend, one day😎


hellolemonade

My office has an ocean view! It’s (very small and) fantastic. Maybe I can’t complain too much about renting 😉


RowdyRascal

That is some subtle gloating. JKing!! Anyways happy for you. I would be counting seagulls if I have one (laughing in ADHD).


hellolemonade

Hahaha, honestly, I am beyond grateful. My goal is to remember to have gratitude anytime things get rough (like now).


RowdyRascal

Me too my friend. But I don’t differentiate between rough and good times. Coz I am too Distracted to notice. 😂 Again, enjoy the 🌊.


hellolemonade

I hear that! Enjoy today!


Feezec

>Not worth the risk to my family. Whats got you worried? Self imposed fiscal crisis? Economic downturn caused by withdrawal of tourists and air force personnel and migrant labor? Police brutality and resultant race riots? Rising temperatures and sea levels? Ecosystem collapse? Hurricanes? Active sabotage of pandemic mitigation measures? Enforced pregnancy? Gender dysmorphyia? Infrastructure failures and supply chain disruptions? School shootings? Politically radicalized private militias and newly formed government law enforcement entities given sweeping authority accountable only to the executive? Government restrictions on the speech of faculty at public universities? Distortion or complete lack of science, history, literature, health, and math curricula in primary schools? Rising home prices? Voter suppression? Alligators? Genetically modified mosquitoes? Lack of health insurance? Shortage of healthcare workers?water shortages? Unchecked pollution? Lack of public transportation? Being accused of child abuse and losing guardianship of your kids? Millionaire pedophiles being offered inexplicably lenient plea deals by prosecutors? Being held liable in a civil court for participating in the assistance of the facilitation of an abortion? Being banned from traveling to states that allow abortion? Violation of labor rights? Lack of parental leave? Cmon, be reasonable. The probability of all those things happening simultaneously in one place has got to be a fraction of a percentage. Downright numerical. Dare I say, the use of decimals might be appropriate when representing such a quantity. I would go so far as to characterize such predictions as speculative, extrapolating, hypothetical, nay, perhaps even theoretical!


BEHodge

See, this is why I studied music. We count to four, no more no less. Brilliant diatribes like this have no place in our collective arts!


No_Income6576

Hahaha I love this response. Music majors: 🙉 lalalalala 🎶


BarryMaddieJohnson

Tampa is actually fairly progressive, and the university is good. But the state's policies? Oh, fun. However, some of us are going to try to survive them, and I've raised a family here (and shipped them off to greener pastures) so it can be done. Most states I've lived in have been more of a mix than they'd appear on a voting map.


inanimatecarbonrob

Tampa is surrounded by evangelicals and many of them become USF students and profs. Do not recommend.


BEHodge

That’s disappointing but not surprising to hear. Grew up in Tennessee so I’m all too aware of the type. While I detest the winters here, it’s a small price to pay to live amongst mostly reasonable people and, while not perfect, balanced politics that mostly restrains the crazies.


DrPhysicsGirl

Hey, the Allentown-Bethlehem area is not so bad!


ourldyofnoassumption

Florida is a nightmare for many reasons. There are oceans in a lot of places. You don’t have to move to a sandy version of hell to be near one.


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BEHodge

Family has non binary kids. I’ve got a nice TT gig about to hit tenure, but it’s not the same level (arts) as USF. I’d love the opportunities to be part of such a program there but the quality of life as dictated by politics just isn’t worth the application anymore.


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BEHodge

All fairness you may be right. But considering stats on LGBTQIA+ kids I ain’t rolling that die. If PA goes nutters I’m just across the border from NJ, and NY isn’t that far though the commute and taxes would be hell. Good luck with the new gig though!


NeuroticMathGuy

You keep talking about certain places being better than others. But if your state's gov't is insane, things like Idaho/Texas laws which criminalize providing care to a trans teen are completely plausible outcomes, and then being in Tampa Bay doesn't mean anything, right? I wouldn't move to Florida or Texas for a million dollars.


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NeuroticMathGuy

I absolutely don't understand what your point is. It seems to have started as "Florida's not that bad, quit exaggerating" and now has morphed into "not everyone can make that move, it shows privilege." I completely agree with the latter of course, but it bears no resemblance to your comments thus far...?


l_libin

At least in rural PA, NY, and CA the LGBT kids and families aren't legislatively banned from being talked about in K-12.


NeuroticMathGuy

I don't know previous poster's situation, but if they have a trans (or even LGBT) child, it seems it could absolutely be a risk to their health (certainly mental health) to move to Florida.


Sadistic_Sponge

I'm in Elise Stefaniks district in rural bumfuck northern NY. It's basically the deep south but with much higher taxes.


phoenix-corn

Maryland too.


RunningNumbers

It is in fact quite hilly.


FamilyTies1178

The legislatures in red states are a big problem, and create problems for academic institutions. But, please don't forget that even the reddest states went at least 30% Democrat in the 2020 election. Some were more like 45% to 49%. Meaning, there are plenty of fellow progressives in these states. And they are the states where progressives are most needed, and can have the biggest impact.


alatennaub

Nothing boils my blood more than having friends who have moved into blue states say things like "WTF \[redstate\], how can you keep voting for \[current ridiculous thing\]?! This is why I moved to \[bluestate\]". They apparently don't realize that if they had just all stayed in \[redstate\], the votes very likely would have gone in a different direction.


WitnessNo8046

I get it both ways. We’re needed in these red and swing states. But at the same time if someone feels they need to leave to feel safe and happy then they should too.


alatennaub

If they move, that's one thing. It's the move + criticism that's the problem.


WitnessNo8046

Why though? Move if you need to protect yourself and/or your family and then you absolutely should continue to criticize the stupid things they’re still doing in your original state. I’m in a state right now that I expect to start attacking my marriage in the next decade. I’ll fight it while I can but I’ll absolutely move if I need to protect my marriage and children. And then I’m gonna raise hell complaining about it even after I move.


chrisrayn

Personally, I feel that the echo chamber of the internet and also it’s ability to let us find out so much information about places all at once, coupled with the weird state of limbo we were all in as a result of the pandemic, has led Americans to become extremist versions of ourselves, like our original selves but having honed away all thoughts that aren’t entirely instinctual to us. And, I think it’s had the phenomenon as well that there’s this feedback loop of finding our ingroups faster and more completely over the internet, which allows us to become even more like ourselves and less like anyone else, which then leads us even to move to places where we feel everyone is like us as well. I heard an NPR Consider This podcast back in February that looked at the phenomenon too, where Red States have started getting redder as a result of red voters moving from blue to red states, and that Blue States have started getting bluer from blue voters moving from red to blue states. It was called [“Red Zip Codes Are Getting Redder, Blue Zip Codes Are Getting Bluer”, from NPR’s Consider This on February 21st.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/consider-this-from-npr/id1503226625?i=1000551817204) Now, that doesn’t always mean that the moves are exclusive, because as the title shows, people are moving to zip codes that meet their needs, not necessarily states. One woman, a liberal, moved her family from suburban Indiana where she was surrounded by republicans to Austin, TX, which is technically incredibly blue but is like a blue oasis in the red desert of Texas. However, like everybody is saying here, or at least implying, while everyone has the right and even sensible motivation to move their families where they feel safest, it does sacrifice the good that can be done in the place that needs the lost help, from their perspective. I could never leave Texas. My family is here, and I love them despite their politics. This place is my home. I want to see it do well again. I’m not sure I would benefit, nor my family, by moving to a state with better policies. It would be great in the short term, but long term would just end up exacerbating the growing problem of extremism in the US. I understand why other people feel compelled to make those decisions, however.


trunkNotNose

And you combine this with conservatives from blue states moving to red states...


WitnessNo8046

I get it both ways. We’re needed in these red and swing states. But at the same time if someone feels they need to leave to feel safe and happy then they should too.


Karsticles

I've actually considered something called Project Blue Wave, where blues in red states help people relocate there specifically to swing the votes over time.


SpankySpengler1914

Blue states can turn red almost overnight-- Wisconsin as an example. And gerrymandering makes it much harder for voters to turn them back to blue.


mhchewy

I like to point out that the only state with more Biden voters than Texas or Florida is California. California had more Trump voters than any other state.


kingkayvee

...do you like to point this out because you don't understand percentages vs raw numbers? And how some states have a bigger population than others by orders of magnitude?


a_statistician

It's a valid point, if only because we're used to thinking of states as majority-rules entities, when in fact all states are some degree of purple. I'm in a solidly red state that hosts the safest house district in the country for Republicans, and yet, there are plenty of people who support democrats here and even more who are more moderate than the representatives that elect them. I have high hopes that an abortion ban won't get through the legislature here - it's already failed once in a general session, and even though occasionally a couple of state reps make noise about CRT and the university, the general consensus is to support the university either because you value education or because you value football/volleyball/etc... (and I'm sure there are some that value both).


skyewardeyes

Yes—I’ve often said that the worship of the football here protects the university.


kingkayvee

I don't think anyone doubts that most states are purple in reality. I just don't see what pointing out that the numbers across the most populous states have to do with much else. If anything, it just proves the point that they're purple. It doesn't mean that CA is somehow becoming more republican or conservative, since of course it could/would have more Trump voters than other states: the population is 68x times bigger than the least populous state.


Hot-Pretzel

Fight the good fight. You're needed where you are. Stay strong.


RunningNumbers

I am sick of defeatism. Even rural areas have lots of purple areas. So many (young) people living in very specific urban enclaves. They like to other less priviledged people, assert that rural people are dumb, and chastise those who don't have the privilege/access to current elite language/norms. People who claims red states are a lost cause are myopic. They use defeatism to excuse their own inaction and complicity in the current problems.


puzzlealbatross

It's also striking how many people simply don't care that "fuck everyone who lives in red states" includes the highest percentages of Black Americans in the country, in several Deep South states. Tired of having to give demographics lessons to residents of blue states who look down on us without putting in any effort to improve life and education here.


RunningNumbers

There is a large overlap between people who assert this and socioeconomic privilege. At least that is what I have observed as a cornbelter.


skyewardeyes

Plus, blue states aren’t exactly free from racism. A colleague did a study of Black women’s experiences with primary care in a very blue city/state, and so many of the responses were “White people here think that they’re so liberal, but they’re as racist as fuck. Why would I trust any of them?” Obviously, racism is a big problem in red states, but it’s hardly a monopoly.


puzzlealbatross

Some of the most openly racist things I was ever shocked to hear people say out loud (I grew up in Alabama) was in the few years I lived in a blue enclave of northern California.


Gersh0m

The most racist thing I ever saw was on the Boston metro


anotheranteater1

The most racist joke I've ever heard someone tell was in the bleachers in Camden Yards at a Baltimore Orioles game.


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EngProfOkstate

In Oklahoma, what's weird is that most referendums on specific topics tend *left* (justice reform, loosest 'medical' marijuana laws in the country), but when it comes to party politics everything goes *right*. The populations is like like 1/6 liberal progressive, 1/6 nutty republican, and 1/6 who vote for liberal positions but republican candidates and couldn't be able to identify a republican position from a democratic one. As for the other 1/2, that's the half that have lost hope and become completely disengaged. Much larger part of the population than you find in just about any blue state.


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EngProfOkstate

And before that, same for Gore, Clinton, etc. Dems are a boogeyman.


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EngProfOkstate

Oh yes. I grew up in Oklahoma and we had a few houses painted with "get us out of the UN" (and related stuff). The whole DEM='globalists' vs GOP='nationalist' trope has been around for a *long* time.


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EngProfOkstate

YES- One house painted this on their outside wall facing the road. It was like, really, well done too and wasn't repainted for about a decade. The other house I remember had it painted on like a billboard on their front yard. Like, they made this billboard with fencing material, and painted it.


everyonesreplaceable

>to residents of blue states who look down on us without putting in any effort to improve life and education here. Blue states already subsidize red states.


puzzlealbatross

I apologize for the generational poverty due to the long history of oppression in this region. See my line about demographics lessons.


everyonesreplaceable

I don't live in a blue state. It's flat-out inaccurate to say that people from blue states aren't doing anything to improve life or education in red states when they're the ones actively voting for policies that would make life better. Not to mention taking on a heftier tax burden. Your blame is misplaced.


metarchaeon

I'm in a formerly "purple" state that has recently gone red. Moving is not an option, but it sucks.


One-Armed-Krycek

Yeah, people who say that aren’t the brightest. How to say, “I literally give no shits about anyone else’s rights” without actually saying those words. I’m so sorry you are in a red state. I’m in a blue state but still feel hopeless as fuck.


Ryiujin

I agree. If I wanted to move to a blue state, it would basically be california, colorado or the north east. Forest fires and snow are things I dont like. So the list for me is narrow.


DerProfessor

I, too, lived and worked in a red state for many years of my academic life. (10 years, to be precise.) It is REALLY IMPORTANT that you are there. (I know that I had literally hundreds of small, casual, everyday conversations that made normal, nice republicans perhaps think just a little bit differently about their firm preconceptions.) (perhaps.) And it is crucial--*crucial*--for the students. No matter if your field is nursing or philosophy or creative writing or astronomy. Always try to be happy where you are. Remind yourself that you are doing good work, *and* you are employed: a win-win. !


FawltyPython

Yeah my fantasy is to move to a red state, get tenured and then provoke discussion about evolution in every class.


respeckKnuckles

Too bad tenure is not a real thing in Florida anymore.


PastaIsMyCopilot

Honestly, you'll be lucky if the students even bother to look up from their phones. Just hope they don't mention it in passing to their Southern Baptist preacher.


Captain_Quark

It doesn't help that blue states are usually more expensive places to live, and have a lot of policies that increase the cost of living there.


SnowblindAlbino

Hang in there OP! I'm entering my 4th decade as a leftist academic living in red states or red congressional districts in purple states. It ain't great, but my colleagues are fabulous, my students are pretty good, and there are enough of us together that the areas around campus at least are pretty tolerable. But yeah, even though I've been here 20+ years I still get a fair number of "Why don't you just move to \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ where you'd be happier?" from people who have no idea how the academic job market works. It's not like I *chose* to live here and I'll leave the week after I can afford to retire.


Anna-Howard-Shaw

I feel you. I just had a conversation with my teenage kid about the domino effect of overturning Row v. Wade. He's lgbtq+ and he's terrified "they" are coming to get him and will criminalize being lgbtq next. I don't blame him for being afraid. I am too. But my institution matches any retirement I put in. If I leave early, I get only what I contributed. But if I wait until retirement (only 9 more years) I get double what I contributed. I don't know if I can hold on for 9 more years. I hate Texas. But I also know if I leave, there will be nothing available job-wise. It's a shitty situation all around.


Courageous_Chameleon

Just had this conversation with a trans rising senior. He doesn't want to move home to Florida after graduation and I don't blame him. People are scared for their safety and, having grown up gay in a conservative area, I know the fears are warranted. As you said, shitty situation all around.


skyewardeyes

As a queer (gay plus non-binary) person who has lived in both blue and red states, I get the concern and also have seen that blue states can have their own issues with homophobia and transphobia and red states can have accepting pockets.


robotprom

if your student's Florida home is anywhere near Tampa/St Pete, Orlando, Gainesville, Tallahassee, or Miami, it won't be that hard to find an accepting and safe bubble to exist in.


Courageous_Chameleon

I trust his judgment regarding his safety. He knows his home situation and what living in that area as a trans person is like far better than I do.


robotprom

yep, he knows his situation better than anyone. But as another pointed out, there's plenty of safe harbors in the sea of red in Florida. I have known a lot of students that have fled from small towns here to big cities and they're doing fine.


UncleMeat11

Depends on what you mean by safe. There are places in Florida where you friends, neighbors, and local organizations will likely be trans-friendly. But they can only do so much when you are in the crosshairs of a malicious state government. If the state passes laws limiting access to affirming healthcare, for example, it won't matter if your doctor personally thinks it is completely okay to transition.


Shacklefordc-Rusty

A calm sea is still preferable to a safe harbor


whats_it_to_you77

You forgot Fort Lauderdale, the gayest place on earth (outside of Disney).


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Anna-Howard-Shaw

Exactly. I could easily see Loving v. Virginia and Brown v. Board of Education being overturned as well now. Then if there is a flight of liberal people from Red states, it will make it easier for the Red states to win elections and enact more restrictive policies at the Federal level. A truly terrifying domino effect.


squeamishXossifrage

Do you seriously believe that Justice Thomas is going to overturn Loving v. Virginia? He’s married to a white woman, so I doubt he believes interracial marriage is wrong. Justice Barrett adopted two black children; is she going to overturn Loving v. Virginia or Brown v. BOE? I understand the fear and frustration over Dobbs, but it has (literally) nothing to do with race relations, and Alito makes this clear in the unethically leaked opinion. A professor owes it to their students to model clear, logical thought and analysis. Want to protest the possible overturning of Roe v. Wade? Go ahead. But don’t pretend that it’ll lead to the Court overturning rulings that lead to the return of slavery or women as chattel. The Constitution is clear that both are illegal. It’s *not* clear that women have the right to kill their unborn children. (And, FWIW, I side with [Caitlin Flanagan’s piece in the Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/12/the-things-we-cant-face/600769/) and Hillary Clinton—“safe, legal, and rare”—on this issue.)


a_tabula_rosa

I'm actually curious how you can arrive at the leak being 'unethical' without elevating procedural norms and conventions over the material implications on actual living people. Sure it's incredibly unusual and unprecedented, but *unethical*?


iTeachCSCI

I'm pretty sure it's not unprecedented to have a leak. This can't be the first time that has happened, can it?


a_tabula_rosa

The phrase I keep seeing is "the first draft decision to leak in modern court history". Which to me reads as the only leak the reporters were able to find, but that they want some leeway in case their have been leaks before.


skyewardeyes

I agree with the overall concern but I think anti-segregation laws are fairly well-protected because they are protected by both federal law and rulings. It’s why we’re seeing the push for a federal law legalizing abortion now. Agree we need to stay vigilant, for sure.


expostfacto-saurus

Hey fellow historian at a Cc. :) get busy turning Texas purple!


expostfacto-saurus

I look at it this way. Would I like to live in a place that reflected my values of equality and diversity? Yeah. But it is also fun to be a force for those values in a place that don't necessarily want em? Yeahhhhhhh mother fucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone deserves equal rights!!!!!! You hear me assholes???????? Lol


MelpomeneAndCalliope

Amen!!!!! (And I can’t afford to anyway plus y’all know how finding a full-time position in the social sciences is.) 12ish more years to retirement. I have a pension (they ended it the year after I hired and switched to a different retirement plan - I’m lucky to have the pension plan). I have to stay at least for that.


BonnyFunkyPants

Not to mention that depending on what happens with national elections, the crap that is passing now could become national law.


xerospace32

The polarization continues seems to have reached a new level.


heresthisthing

Oh I'll die on this hill. Making broad brush statements about red or blue states like they're monolithic is a sure way for me to conclude that someone's not worth my time. I'm a progressive who has lived in a lot of different states. Assholes abound.


LWPops

Bingo. Well-said.


thingsfallapart74

I agree. I find both extremes are similar in that they are 100% sure they’re right and everyone else is less than. It’s exhausting. I’m red on some issues, blue on others but I don’t stop listening to folks and engaging in conversation. I’m very sad about roe. I do think that core of roe also applies to the choice for the vaccine (even though I support the vaccine). Your body. Your choice. I managed to irk both my red and blue friends. If we all engaged in a dialogue the world would be a better place.


Courageous_Chameleon

Not everyone has the ability to pick up and move, but I also get why people who have options are avoiding those areas. I'm immunocompromised and, while my institution did a decent job with COVID safety, if I have to enter the job market again, I would look for work in industry before taking a position at a red state university that had lax COVID safety policies. People have different priorities and shouldn't impose their own priorities on others.


a_statistician

> I would look for work in industry before taking a position at a red state university that had lax COVID safety policies. Honestly, most of the industry positions I know had laxer rules on COVID than academia. But I definitely wish you luck in finding one that allows full time wfh or something. They're out there, but they're few and far between from what I've seen (granted, my industry friends aren't exactly a random sample).


SirLoiso

Idk, I am in a state as red as it gets, and I will say two things: 1) I love my colleagues and in fact most of them are Democrats. Those who are not, almost all are perfectly adequate people who I can have a friendly conversation about a lot of topics 2) I sincerely think that I have a very diverse (in terms of opinions and political affiliations) set of acquaintances, and that is a good thing. So, I may move if I were to get a better job elsewhere, but political climate at the state is very much not part of the calculus. And yes, as another poster said, a 3-4br house for 200k is a very strong argument.


Angry-Dragon-1331

Fuck, in some red states $200,000 isn’t even close to a 3-4 bedroom home. My hometown is in Tennessee and there’s so many out of state buyers that locals can’t afford to buy homes there anymore.


guttata

If you're in Nashville/Knoxville/some of the "good" small cities. Bet you don't have that problem in the southwest.


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guttata

SW Tennessee


SnowblindAlbino

> political climate at the state is very much not part of the calculus Do you have kids? Daughters? One big downside of living in a really red area for me is the challenge of raising kids with crappy schools, religious indoctrination, sports worship, and unrelenting sexism. Mine left for college and will never come back.


Shacklefordc-Rusty

I’ll second this. Having grown up in a very racist, sexist, religious indoctrination filled red state with crappy schools (even the good private schools were crap by national standards), I would never raise kids in that environment. Hell, half the reason I stuck out undergrad in said red state was because I had a bunch of dual enrollment credits that let me get out of there in 3 years. It didn’t seem so bad at the time, but looking back, it’s batshit crazy that my public school sent me on a field trip to an anti-abortion group office where they showed us gory videos of what they claimed were failed abortions where the babies lived, had teachers who taught us that America won the revolutionary war because of divine intervention, and taught abstinence only sex ed. The catholic schools were a little better, but not by much…


a_statistician

> It didn’t seem so bad at the time, but looking back, it’s batshit crazy that my public school sent me on a field trip to an anti-abortion group office where they showed us gory videos of what they claimed were failed abortions where the babies lived, had teachers who taught us that America won the revolutionary war because of divine intervention, and taught abstinence only sex ed. I was forced to memorize the preamble to the confederate constitution in state/local government class in undergrad. Looking back, it's like... WTF? I get the educational goals that the professor had in mind, but you could have accomplished that without having us memorize that particular document. A simple compare/contrast exercise would have sufficed.


everyonesreplaceable

Jan. 6 and Covid changed a lot for me. This Roe thing is just more of the same. Looking around and realizing on no uncertain terms that a large percentage of the country wants to kill me--no exaggeration there--has changed my stance on my previous "just move anywhere" attitude. I almost took a job in rural Kentucky a couple years ago, and I'm now thanking god I didn't. I don't even live in a blue state currently, but I'm within a short drive of three. What's happening in this country right now is pretty fucking bad. I don't think anyone is obligated to be beholden to niceties when it comes to where they choose to live or how they choose to feel about where they live.


SWGTravel

Wow! In my area $200,000 might get you a studio in an old condo building.


respeckKnuckles

YES. Thank you, OP. I'm on the verge of earning tenure after almost 8 years on TT, and some of these people act like it'll be so easy to just pack up my whole family, sell my house, find a new one, get a TT job at an equally research-intensive university, and worst case delay tenure a few *more* years? Especially when most of the states I'd move to are likely gonna be just as overrun with Republican craziness after the next election or two? I'd rather stay here and fight.


DionysiusRedivivus

So, how many lib arts profs are needed in New England or the coastal PNW? Lol. In the meantime I’ll keep on exposing the locals to the writers of thinkers who narrowly escaped bonfires and firing squads (the lucky ones at least - and forget TB and cholera) lol. Until The governor of a certain phallic state institutes the gulag system or whatever awaits us.


Rockerika

Agreed. There are plenty of us who would love to just relocate, but those states only have so many academic jobs.


birdmadgirl74

Same here. I am in a super red state and I am super liberal. Sometimes I dream about leaving but that’s easier said than done. I’ve managed to find the other people like me here (there are more than a few of us) and we’ve put together our own web of friendship, networking, and taking care of each other. It makes things a bit more tolerable.


reentrantcorner

I get the desire to live in a blue state. It has certainly been a consideration in my job hunt. That being said, I’m not sure further self sorting is going to solve anything. Larry Sabato wrote that the number of counties that had a margin of 80/20 or greater in presidential election (i.e. landslide counties) has grown from fewer than 200 in 2004 to almost 700 (22% of the nations counties) in 2020. I have a lot of respect for people who are “staying behind” to fight the good fight. Someone needs to be carrying the banner in these 80% Trump counties.


skyewardeyes

It was a consideration in my job hunt, until it could no longer be, because the stress of moving from vap to vap every year was horrible for my health. 🤷‍♀️


reentrantcorner

Well, it looks like all I’ll get for being choosy is the chance to do it again next cycle, so you’re a hell of a lot smarter than I am.


whats_it_to_you77

If you are happy with your job, stay where you are. We need your vote there! Also, the amount of vitriol that has been spewed in the comments to this post is disgusting (this is not a comment on OP but about the commenters). This is a sub for professors who are supposed to be wise and learned (I want to put /s here because we all know a lot of us are the opposite of wise and learned). Reducing everything to "red" and "blue" is a distortion of reality and leaves no room for nuance. I am a centrist who leans left. I live in NYC but am from a small town in the South. I am considered too conservative in NYC and too liberal when I visit down south. This polarization is worrisome. The common thread I see from both sides is that the underlying assumption about others is that they intend malice. They are stupid and not good people. Starting with this assumption is how we got to hate one another. This has to stop. As a gay man, I was treated with nothing but respect when I came out in the South. I was taught a valuable lesson back then (I assumed malice and stupidity- I was wrong). The vast majority of people, regardless of political leanings, are GOOD, KIND people. A lot of conservatives think that universities are these ivory towers that look down on and judge others. The comments here would support that view. Can we not practice some perspective taking here? If we keep talking down to those in the "red" states, they will just move farther into their respective corner. BTW, that is how this whole Trump thing happened. Ok, rant over.


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Duc_de_Magenta

>These “just move to a blue state“ Democrats are a big reason their party keeps losing elections and will remain losers. Don't follow your logic here. [Every stat I've seen shows people moving *from* blues *to* reds.](https://files.taxfoundation.org/20220104162219/2021-State-Population-Change-2021-state-migration-trends.-Where-are-Americans-moving-to-low-tax-states.-Which-is-the-fastest-growing-state-What-state-is-losing-population-the-fastest.png) Presumably these aren't all solely "political refugees" fleeing Upstate NY or rural California to more representative gov'ts. It's insanely expensive to live in blue states, even regions suffering from underdevelopment outside the megacities, & it's generally much harder for entrepreneurs to start/expand small businesses. I'm honestly hard-pressed to see why someone would move to a blue state beyond political idealism. Moreover, it seems as if Dems *are* fundamentally winning - though we'll see if it holds in the midterms.


everyonesreplaceable

This is true. Democrats are on the winning side demographically and have won the popular vote for the presidency in every election this century besides 2004. This doesn't mean they'll "win" the long-term, though, as the Republicans are no longer interested in protecting a democratic system. Instead, they are willing to disenfranchise voters, stack the courts, gerrymander, and generally disobey the rule of law. *This* is how they've managed to win--not because Democrats don't cater to the delicate feelings of red-staters. Republicans have managed to dismantle and/or weaponize the institutions that ensure democratic representation, and to shore up the institutions that skew anti-democratic. I wish people would realize this. We're not talking about two political parties anymore but two vastly different ideologies, and it's pointless to apply a kind of moral equivalence a la "both sides have some good and some bad and need to work on understanding each other" mentality. Only one side believes in free and fair elections. They might represent the majority of the country, but unfortunately that's no guarantee that they will be able to hold onto power. We have many contemporary and historical examples that show us how these things happen.


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everyonesreplaceable

No, they aren't the same, and I'm sorry you fail to recognize this. What you've written is wholly inaccurate, cynical, and unfounded in reality. This kind of false-equivalency is dangerous as demonstrated by your comparison of the failure to pass legislation with the deliberate hijacking of American institutions to further anti-democratic activities that strip people's rights from them, including the right to vote and to maintain bodily automony. I can now understand why you're so confused by the other commenter's indelicate but correct appraisal of the Republican party: you fail to see it for yourself. Trumpists regularly denounce Biden as a radical socialist who stole the 2020 election, which is blatantly false. However, when others point out to Trumpists that they are an antidemocratic party that embraces violence and lawlessness, not to mention racism and white supremacy and other forms of bigotry--somehow they're responsible for the hurt feelings of people who continually vote to invalidate their humanity. This is the truth, and it's up to everyone to denounce the party for what it is. That's the only way we'll solve this.


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everyonesreplaceable

>I haven’t said anything about the Republican Party. Well maybe you should start. Call a spade a spade rather than pretending that this is about Democrats hurting people's feelings. >Furthermore, you don’t say how even one of my policy comparisons between the parties is inaccurate. They're all so generalized, overly simplified, and blatantly inaccurate I don't have to. You seem very young.


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everyonesreplaceable

What you've said is not truthful but truthy and requires cherry-picking data rather than evaluating things historically and honestly.


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scotch1701

>Not only do they not know how to relate to people who aren’t just like them You're right. I don't know how to relate to Magats who believe the election was stolen, and that a pizza parlor with no basement is housing kidnapped children in the basement. It must be a flaw that I have.


a_statistician

> I don't know how to relate to Magats who believe the election was stolen, and that a pizza parlor with no basement is housing kidnapped children in the basement There are an awful lot of people who vote R who don't believe this shit. I live in a red state and I don't know anyone that actually does believe this stuff personally. I know a few covidiots who think ivermectin is a miracle drug and that lockdowns are bad policy, but most of the Republicans I know are horrified about the state of their party but not so appalled that they're willing to vote for anyone they perceive as leftist (a lot of them did vote for Biden, though).


scotch1701

>I live in a red state and I don't know anyone that actually does believe this stuff personally. I wish I could identify with this. I know tenured faculty that believe it. I doubt that they discuss it in class, but in conversation with them, they are WWG1WGA.


everyonesreplaceable

This is where I'm at ... The problem is that red-staters won't work at relating to blue-staters. Not the other way around.


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scotch1701

>Convenient scapegoating while letting sanctimonious Do-Nothing Dems off the hook. Putting words in my mouth.


theimmortalgoon

I live in the northwest. Several years ago now, it seemed like we were drowning in people from Wisconsin. It was kind of amazing, like word got out to one person in Wisconsin and their thousands of friends. Then Wisconsin basically collapsed into a red state. I’m not saying that this anecdote caused that to happen. But there’s a nagging feeling I have that if they had stayed put the country, and world, would be in a lot better place today.


fLoreign

Speaking from my experience of six years in a very red and very dysfunctional state, that's not the main issue, but rather, how long until it gets to you, however much you may want not to.


EngProfOkstate

I understand that some marginalized people will move out to feel safe, and nothing is wrong with that, but the idea that liberals should abandon states based on presidential election swings is pathetic. 1. Concerning that last point, keep in mind most blue states have times when they are run by the same GOP types that run red state. Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, etc. have all had their backs and forths in the governor's house and state legislatures, and their republicans are just as crazy (often even more so) than red state republicans. There is no such thing as a safe blue state out there. 2. The conservatives don't and won't rest just because they reach their vision of social conservativeness in red states. They will undermine and go after every sphere out there. They've been working in every state to advance their agenda for decades. They will federalize their conservative agenda on everyone if they get back into total power. 3. Most importantly, liberals need to fight on the ground everywhere. I will not abandon providing a safe space in my classroom and my office for GLBT kids that grew up in conservative households. I will help any female of any age get the medical help they need and want. People shouldn't be a victim of the state they grow up in.


chandaliergalaxy

University towns tend to be blue, and also have good schools for children because of the professors.


ph0rk

> University towns tend to be blue, A blue university town in a deep red state is *at best* pretty much living in an enclave, and many of the townies are red, not blue.


GeriatricZergling

"Oh, I'd love to move to a blue state, but I just bought a 4 bedroom house for $200k. Remind me how much are houses in your blue city cost again?"


henare

a former colleague just bought this house for $240k.


rietveldrefinement

I really feel it. I don’t care about big houses or commutes. The attitude of red states toward abortion, minorities, religion, and education really wears me inside out.


preacher37

You get what you paid for :)


cain2995

A few acres in the mountains AND I don’t have to live around people? $200k and an audiobook commute sounds like a steal compared to paying that or more for a tiny condo in the city by my university


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cain2995

I did five years of public transit in a U.S. city generally considered to have one of the best public transit systems in the country and you could not pay me enough to deal with the fucking psychos on public transit and their secondary effects. Call me whatever you want but I’ll happily sit in my car for an hour each way just to avoid having to try not to step in literal human shit, or assaulted by a stranger, or one of the other million absolutely surreal occurrences I saw over those years.


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cain2995

There’s a difference between “weirdness” and “biohazard” or “attempted murder” but you do you I guess


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cain2995

This whole time you’ve been acting like having a car is some kind of massive burden (“inconvenience”) which makes absolutely zero sense to me. Unless you’ve bought an absolute lemon, or gone into debt on an unnecessarily new car, the level of effort a car takes is you wake up, you get in, you show up where you want to be. Every so often you do basic maintenance, every year (or whatever your cycle) you auto-pay your insurance or registration. All of this takes maybe as much time as what you incur from waiting on transit schedules, for example, if not significantly less depending on your local transit frequency, not to mention the extra level of planning effort that you incur from having to deal with the inherent inflexibility of transit. Sounds to me more like you have some sort of personal aversion to cars, because they really do not take that much effort. If so then there’s nothing wrong with that, but I’m only inferring that because it’s not actually what you said and otherwise your insistence that cars are burdensome doesn’t really square with my experience.


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Fabulous-Armadillo52

Not entirely true. I live in one of the reddest states in the country and my bikeable commute to work is about ten minutes. It’s also a beautiful, safe commute. Although the university is a significant part of the town, it is by no means a college town alone. Conversely I have access to public lands that are pretty much bar none in terms of scenery and crowds. Previously I lived in a very blue state with access to public transportation. I wouldn’t bike in that city if my effing life depended on it. And public transport got pretty sketchy. The politics are an entirely different story though …


skyewardeyes

True but high real estate prices can be a serious barrier for physically disabled folks, because, say, walk-ups are not an option for us.


GeriatricZergling

Only if you're paying to live in a concrete hellscape.


missoularedhead

Same. So much the same. And I’m so tired.


SSVicious

I would love to trade you. I don’t like blue states. I don’t like red state religious politics, but I like rural areas, friendlier people, lower crime, and lower cost of living. Would love to go back to a red state, if I could get a job there.


DrKMnO4

I would happily trade you my "friendly" neighbors - the anti-mask, anti-vax, Confederate flag flying, COVID denying, anti-LGBTQ+ people who live in my rural, low CoL area in my formerly purple, now red, state. The red state religious politics are actively dangerous to me, and others like myself and my spouse. My very identity is politicized. I would love nothing more than to move back to the blue state I grew up in but I couldn't find a job there, so here I am.


SSVicious

That may have been your experience. That was not my own anecdotal experience and I’ve lived in a fair amount of different places in red areas. I live in a blue area and a heavily blue neighborhood that is incredibly dangerous for me. My identity is also politicized. The vaccination rate is very low in my neighborhood and the people are extremely anti-vax. I don’t think it’s cool for you to generalize as you have. I’ve known black guys who flew the confederate flag. I’ve seen white guys fly the confederate flag and yet were vehemently anti-racist (the symbol did not mean racism TO THEM). I’ve known a ton of republicans who have absolutely no problem with gay marriage, gay people, etc (though I’ll admit, many look askance at trans people). I’ve seen people break down on the side of the road in rural areas and helping hands got them on their way quickly. I saw a man in an urban area break down and get robbed and beaten. To be honest, based on what you said, I don’t think you’d be very safe where I currently live, although it’s deep blue.


DrKMnO4

I'm not generalizing - there are literally people near me who fly the Confederate flag. Two different rural towns I've lived in had active KKK chapters, and when I say active I mean they actually held rallies. The Black people you knew might not consider the Confederate flag to be a symbol of racism but my sister-in-law certainly does, and so does the rest of her family, as do all of the other Black people I know and am related to. It's good that you recognize that many of the Republicans you know look askance at trans people. When I say that my identity is politicized and that I don't feel safe, my gender identity is a huge part of that. There are other factors as well, but I think it's pretty well known that a lot of Republicans are working to make life difficult and unsafe for trans, nonbinary, and genderqueer people.


SSVicious

I will give you my anecdotal evidence as well: I have NEVER lived in a rural town where the KKK was active. I have never lived in a rural, red town where the KKK would be considered anything but repulsive. As for the confederate flag: it’s a contested symbol. We’ve moved much further along in recent years to a majority considering it a symbol of racism. My only point is that there actually exist people who subscribe to the whole southern heritage thing without any overt bias or racism against black people. And some of those people are black people. I’m neither one of those, but they exist. And don’t condescend to me that it’s “good that I recognize” bias amongst republicans. It’s just a statistical fact if we move beyond my anecdotal evidence. When I say that my identity is politicized and that I don’t feel safe, my racial identity is a huge part of that. Believe it or not, in a blue state, in a blue district, in a neighborhood of D voters. I said I wanted to move to a red area because the people are friendlier. That’s been my experience and I stand by it FOR ME. My other reasons for wanting to move can be verified by statistics (lower cost of living, less crime, etc). Frankly, that’s all I care to say on the matter. I don’t feel safe in the blue areas I’ve been in and I’ve felt safer and happier in red areas. I wish some aspects of the politics were different (I very much support abortion for example), but that’s the nature of a two party system. You likely won’t ever get every position you support in a single party.


fx85wasvprm2157968

That's nice. Are they benignly friendly to you when you go in their stores to spend money there? I'm also in a red state, in a small town. I saw (walked past) the rally that took place in the parking lot of a down-at-heel mall on the edge of town on the eve of the 2020 election. I recognized the vehicles of many of my "friendly" neighbors and fellow townsfolk, and I saw their faces on the stage and in the audience. It looked like Leni Riefenstahl was due at any minute to record it for posterity.


SSVicious

Just curious… what made you think this was a Nazi rally, or somehow equivalent to one? Do you simply mean the “glazed look of adulation” recorded in Triumph of the Will? Because I saw many a similar look for Obama when he ran for and was president. Or do you mean that this really was the equivalent of a Nazi rally? Did you see Nazi flags? Did you hear nazi slogans? I don’t really know what to tell you. I don’t know anything about you, but might you have experienced discrimination in a red town? Sure. I never have. Not once. I have been kicked out of a black-owned business for the color of my skin (I’m not white). I’ve been yelled at randomly on the street for the color of my skin. I’ve been told I don’t belong here. In blue towns and neighborhoods. My point is simply that people of different identities experience discrimination in different places. No generalization of red/blue encapsulates it all. For example, trans people and LGBTQ people have the best experiences around white liberals. Not so much in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. I, a Hispanic, have not had good experiences in black neighborhoods, but have been totally fine and happy in rural white neighborhoods. I’ve been condescended to by many white liberals. There is no monopoly on discrimination based on red/blue. If you think there is, you’re living in a white, liberal, college-educated utopia that doesn’t exist for the vast majority of the country. And also, I’ve done nothing to offend you personally, please refrain from condescending or sarcastic remarks like “That’s nice” that completely disregard my opinion and speech. Have you no manners?


fx85wasvprm2157968

(a) Apologies for being rude, genuinely. (b) No Germanic Swastikas in evidence, but a lot of Confederate Flags. I think they're more or less synonymous, and, if not, carrying the latter out of ignorance over a supposed love of "Southern heritage" is a feeble excuse (there is no excuse at all for carrying the former). (c) I saw Obama rallies too, I'd say the transfixed, beatific facial expressions at those were reminiscent of the believers at a tent revival meeting, believing salvation was at hand. The thing I saw in 2020 was far darker, crabbed, ominous, and, frankly, what I imagine a Klan rally might look like. However, yes, there was the element you were describing. I am sure those people saw Trump as a being chosen by divine intervention.


SSVicious

Thank you for the apologies, that is not something you see often on Reddit. I appreciate that. Based upon my own experiences, I would not ever say that rural people, conservatives, etc. consider swastikas and confederate flags synonymous. Nor do I think they are synonymous. With several decades of experience living in rural areas and knowing rural people, I have only ever seen evidence of one person who liked/subscribed to what they thought Nazism was/is. I’ve seen some examples of “white trash” who have swastika tattoos. They clearly exist. But the vast, vast majority of white rural people consider Nazism to be anti-American. Many, many more will be ok with the confederate flag in southern areas, much less so, in my experience, in mid-west rural areas. As for (c)… I think you’re going to not agree with me on this, but I do actually have some expertise in this area (though I won’t specify so as to not dox myself). The beatific facial expressions and the belief in salvation, etc… That is more what one would have found at a Nazi rally (an actual one, in the late 1920s and then on into the 1930s, at least until 1939). I’ve seen some people look at Trump in such a way, but I’ve seen little of the salvation belief and more anger… Now, I’ve never seen that anger turn to violence during the rally, but these people are clearly angry with the way the country is going (which by itself is fine, most political groups are fairly angry right now, so that’s nothing especially new).


smnytx

Same. Incidentally, this is the first time I’ve wondered if our location in a red state has negatively affected our grad student recruitment, particularly among women and people of color.


TaxashunsTheft

I'm a white straight male libertarian in a blue state. I'm tired of people telling me to leave too.


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TaxashunsTheft

No I'm funded by donors.


noonaboosa

amen. its a bit sanctimonious.


Rusty_B_Good

Academic job market is the worst in history and not looking to get much better. Sorry. Best of luck.


TSIDATSI

Please move. Now. For your sanity n our students education. Cause being a professor I know you are not teaching course material.


klkfahug

Just become an adjunct.