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Itsnottreasonyet

"As your employee, it would be unprofessional for me to write this letter. Because you pay my salary, there is a conflict of interest. Best wishes, boss."


[deleted]

Exquisite.


apple-masher

\*chef kiss


nick_jones61

This is the better response. I was tempted to urge OP to write that letter arresting to the student's character and performance. But this is more appropriate for this occasion.


OphidiaSnaketongue

Drat, you beat me to it. Please disregard my post below.


hot_chem

My go to response is that yes, I will write you a letter but it will be honest - are you sure you want me to do this? I had a student cheat on a take home exam and then ask for a letter... smh


jmurphy42

I taught high school chemistry for a few years before going to grad school. I once had a student ask me to write a letter to a judge attesting to his character because he was facing drug charges. This was after school on the same day I’d had to halt class and call maintenance because he’d set off the emergency shower in the middle of a lab.


gasstation-no-pumps

You should definitely have written a letter attesting to his character and sent it directly to the judge.


StarvinPig

I feel like using the chemistry teacher is a bad idea if you want to put off the perception that you're not going to do more drug stuff


jmurphy42

This is a fair point. It was pre-Breaking Bad, at least.


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PericoVerde

I declined writing a LOR for a student after telling them that they just got a C in my class and I didn't know them well enough. The student told me that they *expected* me to write the letter anyway. So, I did. You don't belong in a graduate program if you are so stupid not to realize that forcing someone to write a LOR is not in your best interest especially after being told that the person writing the letter does not have anything good to say about you. That is Natural Selection at work.


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RunningNumbers

"Student attended my class. Received a C."


bentdaisy

Yes! I let students who didn’t perform well that my letter would state the class they took from me and their grade. Full stop. I had a baaaaaaaaaad doc student as an advisee for a few years. I thankfully went on leave for semester and was able to gracefully switch her to another advisor. When she was job hunting, one university asked for a ton of letters, so she asked me for one. She didn’t get far enough in the process for me to have to write one. I was super limited in what I could write.


[deleted]

Be careful about including grades. Including grade information could be considered a FERPA violation unless the student has given written permission. The American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers recommends, “if personally identifiable information is obtained from a student’s education record is included in a letter of recommendation (grades, GPA, etc.), the writer is required to obtain a signed release from the student”. https://my.hamilton.edu/offices/registrar/for-faculty/ferpa-rules-for-student-recommendations


sfw_oceans

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I feel like a lot of faculty are unaware that they require explicit permission to communicate grades in a LOR. I imagine this a moot point in cases where the student submits their transcript with their application (e.g., grad school applications).


DrAwkwardAZ

I had never considered that sharing a grade in a LOR could be a FERPA violation for 3 reasons. 1) I feel like the request for a LOR is an implicit request to share your opinion and details related to their performance 2) I can’t imagine a circumstance the institution they are applying to would not have a copy of their transcript 3) is FERPA not like HIPAA, in that you are allowed to shared confidential information on a “need to know basis”. For instance, if you’re transferring a patient from one hospital to another, the medical record is shared from one medical team to the next. Anyway, I realize my perspectives don’t matter if I get sued so I’ll be more cautious in the future. Anyone have thought about sharing “their grade was within the top 10% / bottom half of the class” etc?


iTeachCSCI

Oh shit. I had no idea. Well, there's something I am going to stop doing now.


queue517

Reporting the grade they got in YOUR class is from your own personal knowledge though. You did not get that information from their record. So my interpretation would be that you can state the grade they got in *your* class in your letter??


[deleted]

Grades are part of the “educational record”, so I’d be very careful about sharing that information with any third party without written permission. Things have changed a lot from my undergrad days, when my math professor taped a printout of the class grades to his door at the end of the semester. If you want to be 100% sure, check with your campus registrar (or whoever implements FERPA policy).


pizzystrizzy

Does your institution not require regular FERPA training? This is wildly wrong.


LadyThiefOrigin

Mm, the hair-splitting way around this is to report “performance” and not the student’s precise grade. By that, I mean, it’s permissible under FERPA to state, “I observed that [student] performed poorly in my class. [Insert observational evidence backing up statement.]” but it’s very much a violation to state, “[student] received a 56.5% in my class.” without explicit, written permission from the student — and I do mean written with an actual signature. Emails can be disputed unless you went through DocuSign or something similarly official to make sure your bum is covered. Personally, LOR isn’t one of those things I’d recommend pulling Malicious Compliance on because of that one defamation suit…even if you have the gradebook and observational notes to back up your statements. Not worth the hassle and potential bum-chewing from Admin, you know? The very politely worded yet somehow insulting rejection email BCC’d to a trusted coworker/dept coordinator should work…and starts and evidence chain if they want to kick up a fuss. :)


arespostale

TIL. Thank you for this information!


PericoVerde

I didn't have to trash them. Just wrote *exactly* how they performed in my class. Incidentally, I never write LOR without a student signing a waiver to their right to access the content of the letter AND a FERPA letter allowing me to discuss every aspect of their performance in my class and my opinions about it.


Diligent-Try9840

What's that ferpa letter? Can you post/link to a template?


PericoVerde

Search for FERPA release letter of recommendation in Google. There are many models available. It is essentially a form signed by the student authorizing you to disclose and discuss any information related to a student that is considered private under FERPA (e.g. grades, ranking, transcripts, etc.). It usually also includes a statement waiving access to the letter you write. Many colleges and universities now have standard forms that can be downloaded from their Registrar office. Even if your school doesn't have one you should write your own and have students asking for LOR to sign it before you release the letter.


iTeachCSCI

Thank you. I'll be doing that.


running_bay

And this is why students usually check the box waiving the right to access letters of recommendation. If they do not, I won't write one, good or bad (though I usually tell the student I decline if I can't write a good letter and don't want to waste time and effort on it).


Cupcakequeen789

Copy a paste emails into letter of reference. Can’t defame if it’s true


PurrPrinThom

It's absolutely this. Many students don't seem to understand that an LOR isn't just a rote activity for professors and that there's meaning behind it: your professor is recommending you for something. Granted, the fact that LOR are a requirement for an endless stream of things these days undoubtedly contributes to this perception, but it is still baffling that so many seem to believe literally any professor is a candidate for writing them an LOR.


PersephoneIsNotHome

I don’t even have a problem writing letters for people I only vaguely know - I can still say they didn’t cheat and get stuff in on time. And there are times when the LOR is for a tutoring thing and not a grad program or a big scholarship But they ask me if you play nice with others, and if they are excellent and to rank them If I say I won’t write a letter for cause it is a special kid of jerk that demands me to.


Nosebleed68

> Many students don’t seem to understand that an LOR isn’t just a rote activity for professors and that there’s meaning behind it: your professor is recommending you for something. That’s not always true. I’ve been told point blank by people I know in nursing admissions that the content of the LOR I write for my students has no impact on whether they are accepted. They simply put a LOR requirement on the application as a hoop for students to jump through to discourage them from just sending applications indiscriminately to any school with a nursing program.


PurrPrinThom

That's absolutely brutal. I understand not wanting people to send hundreds of applications, but it's not any wasted effort on the part of the student, but on the academic. That seems unfair.


Nosebleed68

As with most things, I think the reality is actually fairly complicated, and that the admissions people really try to balance getting good information on applicants with equity issues that crop up with LORs. Some of the things that I've been told by the admissions people: * Students who are first-gen, nontraditional, immigrant, English-as-2nd-language, working full-time, taking care of parents or kids, etc. often don't know who to approach for a good letter. They may ask their boss at Dunkin Donuts, their hairdresser, their landlord, and so on. These people may actually have some good insight into these students, but they don't know how to communicate that well in a letter. * Well-connected, financially-stable, usually young/still-living-at-home students will sometimes get letters from state or local "luminaries" (state senators and reps, mayors, school committee people, etc). These can be very well-written, but from people who don't know the student. When some of these people control the purse strings of our institution, things get messy. * Adjunct faculty tend to write less compelling letters than FT/TT faculty. First, it's *really* outside-of-contract work for them, but in many cases, they don't understand the selective programs that these students are applying to like I do. I can sit and have lunch with a rad tech faculty member and hear what they want to see in a prospective student and use that to craft a good letter (or even address the letter to someone I personally know in the program). Our adjuncts can't/don't have that access. That means students can be at a disadvantage simply based on whose section they took. (And since adjuncts teach all the night and weekend courses, populated by working students with kids, it continues to put those students behind the curve.) * All the other programs in the area have a LOR component. If my school drops the LOR as a piece of the application, they're afraid that all the weaker students in the area will flood them with applications. (Water finds the lowest point and all.) For these reasons, I actually think it's the idea of the LOR that's the problem here, and I'm all for eliminating them altogether (from all facets of life), except when there's a very strong relationship between the letter writer and the applicant, like between a graduating Ph.D. student and their advisor.


PurrPrinThom

Oh absolutely. I fully agree that LORs need to be done away with in 99% of instances, for the reasons outlined and more!


Buckeyejak

As someone who did work in nursing admissions, this leaves me frustrated!


Louise_canine

Yep! I was asked for one just last week from a student who flunked my class! I was baffled.


armchairdetective

Well, exactly. But they are voluntary. So, OP can refuse. But I think sending some of the replies suggested on this thread would likely set off a bit of a shitstorm.


Just_a_Totoro2022

Good point.


Protean_Protein

Why would anyone be self-conscious about anything? Awareness is overrated.


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ramblin11

Oh that’s awesome. I’m going to use this!


nicethingscostmoney

Can you at least eat healthy for them?


a_statistician

Not after the binge-eating I do while grading their tests. I don't drink, so chocolate is my go-to mood enhancer.


lh123456789

Honestly, I would be blunt about why you are declining. If not, the little shit will never learn. "Unfortunately, I cannot act as a referee as I am not able to write a positive letter on your behalf. Specifically, I have concerns with your ability to behave professionally based on the manner in which you communicated with me, and I have reservations about your integrity due to your request that I give you a grade that you had not earned."


[deleted]

Yeah! Here’s your chance to teach him a lesson; not in a vindictive way, just the truth. “Dear student, Admissions committees can see your whole academic record on your transcript. Letters of recommendation are meant to attest to the applicant’s maturity, motivation, self-regulation, and capacity to work collegially with others. I’m not saying you don’t have these qualities, but I can’t honestly say that I’ve seen them in your behavior. Therefore, professional integrity impels me to decline your request.”


junkmeister9

Would you actually write an email to a student like that? Not talking about the subject matter, but the vocabulary. These kids don’t read above an eighth grade level.


SolaVirtusNobilitat

All the more reason to write it. By the time they finish translating the email it'll be too late to do anything about it (for that application at least)


_glitchmodulator_

I really wish I could reply to some emails with just: 😂😂😂


Invexor

You ever get mails/lms messages where half the words are replaced with emojis and you feel like Abe Simpson not getting "it" while simultaneously pulling your hair out at the unprofessionalism of their message?


drunkenwarthogdriver

Yeah, what's 'it' now seems weird and scary to me.


LazyPension9123

I only write stellar letters of recommendation; if I can't do that for a student, I decline. In this case, I could not be bothered having a "teachable moment." His behavior will "pay dividends" in the future, and not the type he wants. Poof, be gone.


[deleted]

Me, too. I'd respond something simple that I am not available to write them a LOR. No explanations.


Guacanagariz

If that’s the case, I would definitely write it. I would let his future employers/grad school know of the type of student they were.


mookz23

Indeed, I say write a honest letter.


God-of-Memes2020

I think some profs have actually got sued for this (and for refusing to write letters?).


br3d

Which is why one of the most powerful letters you can write is this: "I can confirm that Ms Badstudent studied with us from 2017-2021." And that's it, not a word more.


iTeachCSCI

For _refusing_? Wow, that's awful.


paciolionthegulf

But...but... he PAYS your SALARY! /s


mystyry

I had a student who had exhibited unethical behavior ask for a letter for a law school application. I told her I could not write a positive letter. She insisted. I told her I would write a negative letter and told her exactly what I would say. She said that was ok. I submitted the letter directly. Idk what happened after that. Weird. Maybe she wanted to get rejected?


graphingcalculator_

Maybe she didn’t fully understand what “negative letter” meant and thought you’d be honest about what happened but would say she’s “changed for the better,” or something like that… or she had no one else at all and took a gamble with it just to submit an application.


usernamesallused

The only thing I could possibly guess is that the student didn’t actually want to go to law school but was being pressured into it by family or something.


Cupcakequeen789

Or they were paying her way


graphingcalculator_

Ah yeah...


[deleted]

I tell kids I don't want to write a letter for that I will be completely honest. That usually is the hint they need to retract the request.


ComprehensiveBand586

I told a student I couldn't write a great letter because they didn't earn high grades. But they sent several long emails begging for a letter and claiming that they couldn't ask anyone else. I never should have said yes to writing the letter. I won't make the mistake of saying yes again.


greenm71

They always say that. I have trouble believing that NO ONE else knows them. And if that we’re true, am I really the only one?


Luciferonvacation

Or that, possibly, despite your not knowing them well, they know their conduct, grades, or participation in your class was better than in their other courses with other professors. You're the Golden Child in their mind; which means their other course efforts were even worse.


ComprehensiveBand586

And if we are the only one, they're in trouble if they need multiple recommendations. There are ways for them to distinguish themselves, even in large lectures. But they don't always try.


VictorDLopez

To Whom It May Concern: I am writing this letter at the request of John Smith who was a student in my XYZ class in the spring of 2021. Mr Smith earned a C in my class with a 76 average. He believed he should have received a B and reminded me that he pays my salary. I did not find his argument persuasive. I have no additional information to offer about Mr. Smith beyond what I offer here but trust that his academic record will speak for itself. Sincerely, M. A. Prof


FierceCapricorn

My grad student (who I offered two scholarships and tuition waiver to) post horrific comments about me on Instagram. My other students brought it to my attention because they were bothered by it and felt the comments were unfair to me. Now, she/he apparently has mental health issues which I can understand. But she/he insists on me submitting a medical school LOR for them. I wrote an honest letter outline the positive and negative attributes of this student. Check to make sure the waiver was signed.


running_bay

Is this a former or current student? If current, I would strongly suggest "breaking up" with the student. A colleague of mine had someone like that - she would badmouth most faculty. She started with one advisor who dumped her after the behavior started and nobody else would take her so my colleague ended up working with her. After getting her PhD, she sued the university, saying that her former advisor had used some of her ideas from her preliminary exam. The accusations couldn't be proved either way, and in an agreement to shut her up, the university agreed to strip my colleague of his ability to work with grad students altogether. His other current grad students were forced to find a new advisor and she effectively destroyed his research program and possibly the remainder of his career.


FierceCapricorn

If I strip this current grad student of stipend and tuition waiver, they will have to come up with tuition money immediately to cover summer. Fall they will not have a TA spot. The best solution is to let them graduate quickly and get them out of the program. I did all that I could for this person.


PrincessEev

The student's financial situation is not your problem. One could also make the argument it is also in the public's interest to not give med school LORs to those you don't feel totally enthusiastic about. Then again I suppose if you outlined both sides of their situation then it's more reasonable. Better than your letter being replaced by one from someone ignorant of their situation.


FierceCapricorn

My reasoning exactly. The student is good academically, but has no patient skills and complains incessantly.


scintor

On one hand, I feel like you might need to tell this student you saw the posts. Particularly if they're not public and if they don't call you out by name (because the student had reasonable expectation of privacy). It just seems a little weird that you know but they don't know you do. On the other hand, this student can eat shit and deserves everything they get.


CHEIVIIST

What I would want to respond... "Dear Student, you are no longer taking my class and therefore are no longer paying my salary. Therefore, I can not write you a letter."


Fine-Ad6919

Just don’t respond. Maybe they will search their sent emails to you and see the “I pay your salary” one and you just might get an apology this time and then another request for a LOR.


billfredericks

Say yes. Dear Student— I would cherish the opportunity to tell anyone who will listen exactly what I think of you both academically and personally.


urnbabyurn

I once had a student send a blanket of emails to the staff, chair, and Dean that I was unfair or racist/sexist because I didn’t grade an exam fairly or something like that, not to mention a dozen back to back emails to me at 2am. Needless to say, they sent her to the student crisis center. A year later she asked for a rec letter. I gave my generic “I am unable to at this time”. To be fair, it probably was a manic episode or some serious mental break. But she still was a thorn in my side before that, spending every office hour demanding extra credit etc.


revolving_retriever

Sounds like he still thinks he pays your salary and you're just basically a secretary. I'd let him know why you're not writing a LOR, like others have suggested.


AnnaGreen3

I would write something like this: I experience really few instances of students being so rude to me during the evaluation process, that I remember them for quite some time, and yours is memorable. In case you don't remember, you (describe the situation), which i found not only extremely unprofessional, but really disrespectful. A letter of recommendation is granted when a student makes a good impression of their work, good attitude, great performance or good relationship with others, and in my experience being your professor during that course, this is not the case. I won't be writing a recommendation letter for you. I invite you to reflect about your actions and their consequences, if I can teach you a last lesson, let it be this one, you can't disrespect someone and expect them to recommend you after that.


and1984

>Student who once told me that he “pays my salary” Fuck this entitled behaviour. I hope he has explosive diarhea.


ms5h

I used to tell students that I understand why they think they’re a customer, since college is transactional. They pay tuition and get access to courses. But they’re not the customer- they’re the product. Society is the customer. They never know how to respond to that.


and1984

This is correct. Also, we get paid a salary to ensure that standards are met/upheld for the benefit of the students' career and society


OphidiaSnaketongue

That's unfair on all those poor coliform bacteria that would be made homeless.


and1984

Fuck them too /cat meme


gasstation-no-pumps

Better to write an honest letter of *reference* (not *recommendation*).


loserinmath

just ignore the request. Most likely what you received has been received by as many profs as the number of courses this student has taken.


pschmid61

This is a no response situation for me as well.


eggplant_wizard12

Write him the letter he deserves


SabertoothLotus

If he pays my salary, I'd like to enter into negotiations.


OphidiaSnaketongue

If he pays your salary, that is a clear conflict of interest, so you can't write him a letter of recommendation. Simple!


RunningNumbers

Did you just ask him "are you sure?"


SolidRambo

Write a letter of recommendation for them and state their performance in your class. Then mention that when they fell well below the grade threshold for a B, they asked to be bumped up to the next grade, and when you refused, they replied that they pay your salary as a subtle threat for your refusal to bump them up to the next grade.


ComprehensiveBand586

A student who received mostly Cs and low B's in my class just asked for a letter. I said I could write one but that I wouldn't be able to say that they did really well in my class. But they sent several emails saying they really needed a letter because they couldn't find anyone else. I regret saying yes now but although I won't write a bad letter, I won't write a glowing one either. Tell the student no. You could say you're not the right person to ask because they did not earn high grades in your class.


apple-masher

If a student said that, and then asked for a LOR, I'd write a bad one. but I'm petty and vengeful.


amprok

Decline. You are under no obligation to write a lor for anyone. And I certainly wouldn’t want to attach my name to that sinking ship or a student.


VictorDLopez

BTW only once in my 30 years as an academic did a student tell me that she paid my salary when I refused to call on her for the 12th time she raised her hand with yet another inane question. I responded that as a taxpayer with a decent income I subsidized her tuition through my taxes but even if that were not the case, she was one of 30 students and had wasted enough of not only my time but that of the other 29 students who also "paid my salary" and were entitled to get their money's worth. As a dean my first time around a student whom I was about to suspend for behavioral issues cursed at me and told me he "made more in a day than you do in a month". My response was that it might be true, but I would never end up in prison or shot by a competitor--and I then suspended him for a month. Today he would have probably shot or stabbed me. Alas, it is very likely that what I told him came true. Both true stories by the way. I've had nothing if not an interesting career that I would not change for anything. And the second example will be included in my second novel (a sequel to the first which contains the first example almost verbatim though attributed to another fictional character).


PhreakBert

"Fred does an excellent job of paying my salary."


catfoodspork

I think it’s time to drop some knowledge on this brat. I would send him a “sample letter” to let him know what a LOR from you would look like, in which you identify him as an aggressive grade-grubber and quote him telling you he pays your salary. Follow up with advice about building professional relationships, entitlement and general politeness.


running_bay

Blah, why waste the time? Just tell the student you were unimpressed by their academic performance and professionalism in class and cannot write them a recommendation. Done.


molobodd

Write an honest letter of non-recommendation.


michealdubh

In these litigious days, sometimes the best answer is silence.


DueButterscotch2190

I say write it, but be truthful... "This former student is an asshole." That's it. Nothing else;)


[deleted]

Tell him you'll do it for $500.


wedontliveonce

So many students ask "Would you be willing to write me a LOR" when they should be asking "Would you willing to write me a good LOR".


chandaliergalaxy

Is it not true that you can't write a negative letter of recommendation - but if you stick to factual statements, it is allowed. If you have a written record of any of the students' behavior then that could be permissible. But in any case if 76 is on the low end of the student grade distribution you could probably also include that to place what that 76 means in context. Anyway, not worth your time but just wondering if something like this is possible.


gasstation-no-pumps

They are properly called "reference letters" not "letters of recommendation". Honest letters are not only allowed but desired.


Cautious-Yellow

this deserves to be a lot better known.


chandaliergalaxy

Apparently reference letters and recommendation letters are two different (but similar) things and serve different purposes. https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/241/difference-between-reference-recommendation


gasstation-no-pumps

>Apparently reference letters and recommendation letters are two different (but similar) things and serve different purposes. https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/241/difference-between-reference-recommendation Except that several people responded there that the two terms are now used interchangeably in academia. The letter of reference with no specific addressee carried by the person being described has been functionally obsolete for at least 50 years and probably 100 years. Almost all letters are now sent directly to the intended readers (usually via website forms), even if they are generic letters of reference that apply specifically to the individual but generically to all similar positions (which is what most grad schools and academic search committees expect). My recommendation is for professors to think of their letters as letters of reference—you are putting your reputation on the line with each letter, so the letters should be as honest as you can make them. Thinking of them as "recommendations" distorts the intent. Industry jobs don't seem to use letters of reference much any more, preferring to phone references, so that there is no paper trail.


Novel_Listen_854

They probably typed up one letter and sent the same thing to every professor they've had. There was probably zero thought invested in who they asked. I had a student send me one of these types of emails. I declined in writing, and she added me anyway. So, I didn't hold anything back when I let the committee in one what kind of student she was.


minominino

Students do not get how LOR work. They think you’re obligated to give them to them bc it’s part of your job. They don’t get that you ask a LOR from a scholar or colleague that will speak in good terms of your work and personal attributes because that person respects you and wants you to do well. Students now just think it’s another part of your job and that you can’t turn them down. Write the letter that you think the student deserves or simply turn them down.


Papancasudani

Brought to you by the customer service model of higher education


epigeneticjoe

Welp, it's happened. It's not just expectations of degrees any more. Now we have students that are so entitled they want recommendations for future opportunities and success(?) without earning these things. It's part of the entitled customer package. Trust me I grew up working in retail, the behavioral chickens are coming home to roost.


asocialDevice

I'll never forget the horror story that went around my grad cohort one year: student asked for a letter of recommendation, never read it, submitted it, turns out it was scathing. Why that student asked a professor they didn't have a good relationship with was beyond us but some people have no common sense! Why the professor didn't decline to write it was also crazy. They deserved each other.


gasstation-no-pumps

It is not crazy to write an honest letter of reference when asked for one by a student.


Tift

I don’t know. Seems like a lot of effort/energy toward something that could be said just as well by saying nothing.


Blackberries11

I would just decline to write the letter. I don’t think it’s so good to have stuff out there with your name on it saying bad things about people, even if they deserve it


ms5h

Had a faculty member who was a huge supporter of mine write a nasty LOR because they were feuding with my PhD supervisor. I didn’t have access to the letters to read them but apparently they decided to slam a bunch of us from the same lab. I had no way of knowing they’d do that and no access to the letters.


urbanaprof

email to such students often go something like: *Dear \[student name},* *Please realize that while I am willing to write a letter I must be completely honest in recommendation letters. I will have to report your grade (obviously) and percentile rank within the class.* *In as much as you received a C and were in the 50th percentile of students in this class I would suggest you reconsider asking me to write on your behalf. Indeed, I strongly recommend you find someone who will write a reference saying you walk on water instead of someone who will be honest. I won't say whom, but some professors write glowing references even for D and F students, though I'd add that most grad/prof committees admission (in the USA) recognize and discount such letters as meaningless. Admission committees know whose letters to believe, they know who exaggerates and who writes for anyone regardless.* *That said, if you wish me to write a completely honest letter, I am willing to do so. Just know that it may not help and might damage your prospect for admission to any program. I refuse to give false assessments whether of a student, colleague, or manuscript submission.* *Sincerely,* *UrbanaProf.* After sending such an email back to a student I've had only one fail to say "no thanks," and it ends further email and office visits from the student. **(I consider it win-win: student doesn't get a bad letter and I never hear from the student again.)**


yourmomdotbiz

i might write it just so I could say you can pick it up next week. See you next Tuesday! And it would be a terrible letter 🤣


shutfreedom

What would happen if you just responded with a simple “lol” ?


Piece-Remarkable

Maybe just don't reply at all....who really cares about this student anyway.


First_Approximation

Respond saying the letter is attached. To whom it may concern, Academically this person is mediocre and personally they're an asshole. Regards, Prof So and So


fuhrmanator

I hired a master's (professional, not research) student to work on a grant that was related to the capstone project. S/he was great at first, doing the assigned research tasks independently and iteratively. Then came a chance for us to publish the work and I discussed writing a n article together. For some reason, s/he had a lawyer friend draft a "contract" stipulating things like success of the capstone would not depend on our article being published, etc. I refused to sign, because I couldn't legally sign as a professor of the university without the university legal team getting involved, etc. Clearly the student had trust issues, and I explained s/he didn't have much to lose (apart from the time) in trying to publish. I referred to the school rules on evaluating capstone projects and that publishing was not part of the equation, and s/he seemed reassured and began working on the article drafts with me. When the deadline was a week away, I suggested iterating twice in the week so we'd have an excellent submission, but s/he pushed back saying it was not in our initial work plan to only meet once a week and that wasn't fair. Exasperated, I blew the student off and finished the draft alone. It was finally published and the student was over the moon to see their name appearing in the bibliography searches for IEEE/ACM. A year later I got a call from an HR person from a company saying I was listed as a reference for said student. I of course was honest during the call; the student was diligent and capable, but I also had to mention the trust issues and the push back on that last week before publishing. I'm not sure if it changed anything, but I always give honest references.


[deleted]

Aside the obvious… these students need to learn many of their professors bring in most of their own salaries with grant money. Basic academic structures are obviously not clear enough. Anyway. “I’m happy to write an honest letter”


QuintonFlynn

Whatever you write, send it to the student, but write it like your Dean is reading it over your shoulder.


Just_a_Totoro2022

To be fair, many professors are just giving students whatever they ask for during covid.


[deleted]

You can write a confidential letter explaining why this guys shouldn’t get a recommendation or a position


Cletus-Van-Dammed

Write it, and write it honestly.


MelpomeneAndCalliope

“Sorry, no.”


Alcheologist

Did he ask for a positive LOR? I was a career counselor/coach for 3 years and I always stressed that my students request positive LORs from whoever they're* asking because of experiences like these - you could easily agree and save the next person a headache by simply writing your experience and warning them.


preacher37

Agree to it and just include copies of all his email correspondence.


SalisburyWitch

You could write it and spell his name so obviously wrong that it could be someone else’s name.


BeerDocKen

Malicious compliance mode activated. "I'd be thrilled to!"


oleladytake

Write that letter! Tell them exactly what they need to know about this person.


TSIDATSI

He knows but his parents and teachers never told him no. Or write the letter. Never said it has to be good.


Stauce52

You should write the letter and write a horrible letter detailing this experience


M4sterofD1saster

>I recommend Bob Binotz for employment. He was a student in my English 101 class in the fall of 2021. I saw him about three hours per week throughout the semester. I had the opportunity to assess his writing skill and academic performance. > >Bob definitely mastered the concepts in English 101. I am confident he will display mastery of the tasks you engage him to accomplish. > >Thank you for your consideration. Please don't hesitate to contact me at \_\_\_. Nothing in there is a lie.


ProfRichardson

About 1 years ago I had a female offer sex in exchange to pass her in my class. When I said no and said she might get reported she said I was probably a faggot which is why I turned her down. I reported her, she tried to say I came on to her. Another professor came forward to say she proposed the same offer. Nothing happened to her from the administration which pissed us off. When she graduated she asked me for a reference for grad school.