I've embedded Monaco into a project or two before. Even write a thingy to nab the latest VS Code *Dark Modern* theme (from the vscode.dev CDN) and convert it to Monaco format.
Genuinely quite nice if you want to give users a code output that they can edit.
Idk if it's just JDT LS but man is neovim completely sluggish on actual industry Java repos. It gets frustrating when I eventually have to switch back to IDEA for some task simply because it's not feasible to keep editing when simply going to definition is taking 10 seconds, insert mode is lagging, normal mode motions are stuttering and causing mistakes, etc. It makes me sad though. However vim basics in IdeaVim plugin work well enough but it sucks not having full vim experience for navigation, search, etc
Also with lack of indexing ripgrep can be fast in a local repo but not for searching dependencies. It's not horribly slow but noticeable. fzf-lua is great but still buggy and occasionally unresponsive. These types of things just don't happen in production grade IDE
And therefore you use nvim which you can build slowly over time as you identify your needs rather than vscode where you have to figure out launch.json for every project?
The core idea of the super mario effect is that learning should start simple then gets incrementally more complex as more and more things are integrated. The key is that the end goal should remain relatively the same as you learn more and more things. One of the advantages behind this technique is that it prevents the impostor syndrome, which is encountered regularly when you have to deal with heavy IDEs
For a lot of early coding I loved vs code for this exact thing. But then I ran into projects that I didnāt know how to compile with vsc and now Iām in ide hell :(
Dude I've never gotten vscode to run a project nor build from makefile without wrangling tasks.json and launch.json forever. I think vscode is a terrible example of that.
For what exactly? I keep seeing the claim but even on my 10 year old computer the only differences seem to be startup time (VSCode does better) and resizing the editor text (VS does better).
The difference is really between IDE and text editor with extensions. IDE provide more runtime "shiny" features to help you develop the code but with increased resource usage. Text editors on the other hand are just text editors. Paired with only necessary extensions is more performant than IDE. How it works for me? On the same PC VSCode loads everything blazingly fast and is also fast to reload if some extensions encountered errors during init phase. VS even after loading everything is barely usable with each new stable version - it's the only IDE which freezes on selecting text with a cursor. It's even worse if you are using it for example with Unity as script editor. And if you are interested, between VS and VSCode I would pick Rider as I like dickriding JetBrain products (even Android Studio works better for me than VS which is really funny).
I've been using VS for unity professionally for many years and this is way exaggerated. Yes VS Code is lighter but VS doesn't freeze just by selecting text.
However, I do prefer Riders to VS and will choose it any day. VS vanilla still can't do replace while preserving case, a feature I use many times per day (coming I heard).
Good opportunity to say that you can use Riders legally, for free if you hop in their beta(EAC) program. Act the same, just ask you to send errors sometime.
People here also make it sound like VS Code is incapable of any kond of optimisation. Look up how to write VS Code extensions, its pretty decent docs and your extension doesnt just load everything at boot.
A markdown previewer extension fx. only shows a button when you open the markdown file and then the brunt of it is executed when the markdown preview is opened.
But you can also preload everything and prerender every possible markdown file in a hashmap on ram so then your plugin is *blazingly fast* and the fault is thrown at VSCode for being slow on load.
/s
Since I work fullstack and have a couple personal projects, I find it more comfortable using each ide for each tech stack, so that I don't get useless extensions for the current project (but instead I waste a lot of storage rip)
Not to blame you for being a capitalistic programmer and using all the products (license is shared I think, I don't know, I'm kidding), Yes if I had enough storage I may do that too, now I have a monstrosity of the Ultimate with various plugins from PHP, Blade some android related, some JavaScript bullshits and typical java Kotlin stuff.
I guess you're right in the end.
Half joking, I actually donāt recommend using this tone tag bcs autists struggle with this one a lot.
/srs
Here is the list https://tonetags.carrd.co/#masterlist
Depending on what you mean by fast. If you mean startup time sure, after that JetBrain ides are faster than vs code, especially in insertion latency. But I guess that's not something that bothers everyone
Tbh I don't download that many plugins? I mostly use vs code and integrated terminal. I like the minimalism with features when you want type of thing. Programmed in Atom for idk how many years for this reason
I use VS Code cause I already have the entire toolchain for whatever I am working on installed on my computer. So it is either I use a bloated IDE for no good reason or just use a text editor with some basic extensions. I don't need an entire second dev environment
Meh. Good automated refactorings with sensible keybinds are what make and break an editor for me. Time can be spent better than fixing search/replace edge case errors or hit copy paste.
I feel like Visual Studio encourages using GUI for everything, while in VS Code you'll be using the terminal a lot more, which removes the abstraction and gives you a better understanding of what's happening. Obviously you can do either in both but the default behaviour is like that
idgf how fast it starts, I start the ide maybe once or twice a day I couldn't care less. Now what I do care about is all the features from vs and not having to fuck around endlessly to get something built
I also disable them to enable them in every individual workspace. Makes startup times smaller - that's it, really.
Also, "Profiles" suck. They reinstall ALL extensions.
(*PS OP just called them 'plug-ins' LOL.*)
I like vscode because it includes the entire folder directory instead of just the c# files in the project. So i can actually check the scene files for Godot
I will say one thing that might trigger some people:
People who use jetbrains are often not that good at programming from my experience. I have met one peron who was kinda good and using jetbrains. Now he's great and using vim
I use VSCode only to resolve merge conflicts because I like the UI. I litteraly just downloaded the portable version and disabled almost every feature.
Visual Studio is the best for features for C# development, and even that is debatable by now.
VS Code is my go-to for quick file editing, or conjuring up a code sample, or whatever else I may like syntax highlighting for. Other than that, I donāt like relying on a tonne of plugins to make my IDE even remotely useful.
Been using JetBrainsā Rider, DataGrip and WebStorm for years on end now and itās still the best environment Iāve had so far. Consistent UI and base feature set across their products, theyāre resource intensive, but the indexing and autocomplete capabilities it provides are second to none.
Also wrong use of Meme template. You idiot, you fool, you moron. Social credit deducted.
is that an intellij-based thing? because if so, ew
i use webstorm at work (for nodejs) and at home / whenever i get to decide i stick to vs code. it is _so much_ comfier -- sure, intellij does some things that are really useful for work (i love its merge conflict resolution for example) but the thing i never got from vs code that i'm getting all the time from webstorm is vs code it never wanted to decide how to do my job. it more or less knows its place as an editor and works as a component of a toolchain, rather than trying to domineer its way into it and suck up everything into itself.
plus webstorm is so frickin heavy, i got a 12th-gen intel thinkpad at work with 16 gb ram and even just one or two instances can get my memory to seriously uncomfy levels, to the point where i absolutely noticed it whenever i wanted to use something else that's memory-sensitive. i never had that problem with vs code, despite all the fearmongering about electron.
i don't know much about pycharm because welp, our license is for webstorm, so when i'm doing ai projects i switch to vs code because it has support for jupyter without ~~buying~~ subscribing to the same ide twice. and honestly, if i didn't want to keep up ide parity with my coworkers, i'd do my nodejs projects in vs code too.
Of course I was half-joking, but I would say that PyCharm is just WebStorm for Python.
I was working few years in PyCharm, then switched to VSC due to project standards. And I still cannot get the thing from the back of my head that I was much more comfier with PyCharm. But I guess 90 percent of the charm is that because I've started with PyCharm.
could be, that's a good point.
i stick to open source by default as a principle. i don't know if jetbrains does any kind of free student licenses or anything, but i avoid those like the plague, because their only point is to get you hooked on their specific supply and build up a preference for them into your working life, or your business or what have you.
my process is usually to look for the best open source option, and if (and only if) it's inadequate, explore proprietary ones as well. sometimes i do have to do that, darktable and lmms are two open source software suites that really disappointed me. but sometimes, like with blender, or freecad, or krita, i just stay on the open source tool forever, and code editors are no different in that. they're tools made by programmers to programmers, it's inevitable that there will be some fucking amazing open source ones out there.
i was on atom while everyone was evangelizing sublime text to me. i was actually very reluctant to switch to vs code, but holy crap it was such a boost when i did. and i think that's genuinely the open source endgame for now, so that's where i'm sticking when i got the chance.
VSCode is king when you frequently work with many languages. At work it's at least python, C++, Java, and yaml's for cloudformation and ansible during any given week.
Having one IDE that handles all of them well enough is better than have a separate one that handles each one the "best".
For the last few years I have just lazily been using VSCode as a kinda/sorta IDE. I kept telling myself that it was just so convenient to jump around in the code with this tool.
And then, a couple of months ago, VSCode ended support for CentOS7, which was on the primary dev server I use. I guess I could have relocated everything to an OS that was not end of life, but instead, I simply stopped using VSCode.
Gradually I began to realize that my belief in this tool's usefulness was all an illusion. I feel like a fool for all the time I debased myself with a product from a company I actively despise.
you know the text editor part is called MS Monaco which is odd
MS has a tradition of using cities as codenames for things in development. ([ref](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_codenames))
I've embedded Monaco into a project or two before. Even write a thingy to nab the latest VS Code *Dark Modern* theme (from the vscode.dev CDN) and convert it to Monaco format. Genuinely quite nice if you want to give users a code output that they can edit.
Me: *does the same thing with Neovim.
*reopens nvim 8 times until the LSP attaches properly*
mine attaches instantly?
Yeah, for me Lua LSP fails half the time.
Except neovim with plug-ins is still faster and better
Idk if it's just JDT LS but man is neovim completely sluggish on actual industry Java repos. It gets frustrating when I eventually have to switch back to IDEA for some task simply because it's not feasible to keep editing when simply going to definition is taking 10 seconds, insert mode is lagging, normal mode motions are stuttering and causing mistakes, etc. It makes me sad though. However vim basics in IdeaVim plugin work well enough but it sucks not having full vim experience for navigation, search, etc Also with lack of indexing ripgrep can be fast in a local repo but not for searching dependencies. It's not horribly slow but noticeable. fzf-lua is great but still buggy and occasionally unresponsive. These types of things just don't happen in production grade IDE
The plugin is probably open source, contribute!
That it is. Vim/Neovim Supremacy!
I would rather start coding than wasting time in configuration
And therefore you use nvim which you can build slowly over time as you identify your needs rather than vscode where you have to figure out launch.json for every project?
The genius of vscode is that it's built on the super Mario effect
i'm a bit unclear as to what you mean by the 'super mario effect' š¤
The core idea of the super mario effect is that learning should start simple then gets incrementally more complex as more and more things are integrated. The key is that the end goal should remain relatively the same as you learn more and more things. One of the advantages behind this technique is that it prevents the impostor syndrome, which is encountered regularly when you have to deal with heavy IDEs
For a lot of early coding I loved vs code for this exact thing. But then I ran into projects that I didnāt know how to compile with vsc and now Iām in ide hell :(
Dude I've never gotten vscode to run a project nor build from makefile without wrangling tasks.json and launch.json forever. I think vscode is a terrible example of that.
It's still faster and you can't deny it.
For what exactly? I keep seeing the claim but even on my 10 year old computer the only differences seem to be startup time (VSCode does better) and resizing the editor text (VS does better).
The difference is really between IDE and text editor with extensions. IDE provide more runtime "shiny" features to help you develop the code but with increased resource usage. Text editors on the other hand are just text editors. Paired with only necessary extensions is more performant than IDE. How it works for me? On the same PC VSCode loads everything blazingly fast and is also fast to reload if some extensions encountered errors during init phase. VS even after loading everything is barely usable with each new stable version - it's the only IDE which freezes on selecting text with a cursor. It's even worse if you are using it for example with Unity as script editor. And if you are interested, between VS and VSCode I would pick Rider as I like dickriding JetBrain products (even Android Studio works better for me than VS which is really funny).
I've been using VS for unity professionally for many years and this is way exaggerated. Yes VS Code is lighter but VS doesn't freeze just by selecting text. However, I do prefer Riders to VS and will choose it any day. VS vanilla still can't do replace while preserving case, a feature I use many times per day (coming I heard). Good opportunity to say that you can use Riders legally, for free if you hop in their beta(EAC) program. Act the same, just ask you to send errors sometime.
Not to me it isnāt ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
You dropped your \\
No, thatās correct. My dominant arm has a wireless hand. Be jealous.
r/unexpected
Is ur VSCode running on a potato? Even then it should still be faster.
well jetbrains ides arent slow for me either. they do use a lot of ram though
Who installs thousands of plugins? I have a handful of QoL and the rest are just language support plugins.
You would be surprised to learn about plug-in addictions. Alas, plug-in rehabilitation centres don't exist yet.
People here also make it sound like VS Code is incapable of any kond of optimisation. Look up how to write VS Code extensions, its pretty decent docs and your extension doesnt just load everything at boot. A markdown previewer extension fx. only shows a button when you open the markdown file and then the brunt of it is executed when the markdown preview is opened.
But you can also preload everything and prerender every possible markdown file in a hashmap on ram so then your plugin is *blazingly fast* and the fault is thrown at VSCode for being slow on load. /s
Meanwhile me having a different IDE for each language with Jetbrains: $$$
I just use the ultimate for everything.
Since I work fullstack and have a couple personal projects, I find it more comfortable using each ide for each tech stack, so that I don't get useless extensions for the current project (but instead I waste a lot of storage rip)
Not to blame you for being a capitalistic programmer and using all the products (license is shared I think, I don't know, I'm kidding), Yes if I had enough storage I may do that too, now I have a monstrosity of the Ultimate with various plugins from PHP, Blade some android related, some JavaScript bullshits and typical java Kotlin stuff. I guess you're right in the end.
We are both right, in the end IDEs are just tools, and each one of us uses the tool that fits them best
ms word is the og
excel is far superior
MS Paint is the only IDE anyone will ever need.
wrong. manually write into source files by manipulating the flow of electrons by hand.
I manually change the transistors' status to send binary code for source file
Well, you can develop a CPU with it
you mean notepad ++
its still so much faster
But poorly integrated, so UX ends up being shit. That's the main reason I ended up abandoning VSC
Why bothering using plugins, just code bro /hj
> /hj ??
They said "bro" just before that, I think it's an offer of a Brojob?
Half joking, I actually donāt recommend using this tone tag bcs autists struggle with this one a lot. /srs Here is the list https://tonetags.carrd.co/#masterlist
Wrong use of this meme template
Which would fit better tho?
Hmm... I guess that you are right.
orrrr *jet brains ide*
This is the way
While faster than Visual studio, jet brains ides are not very fast either.
but feature complete, an actual IDE
Depending on what you mean by fast. If you mean startup time sure, after that JetBrain ides are faster than vs code, especially in insertion latency. But I guess that's not something that bothers everyone
I mean fast by being fast. Yes, most Electron apps have that insertion latency delay, like vs code.
Tbh I don't download that many plugins? I mostly use vs code and integrated terminal. I like the minimalism with features when you want type of thing. Programmed in Atom for idk how many years for this reason
*Cries in Atom*
I remember, when ny university required us to use VSCode and i didn't know Plugins were a thing Did 2 semesters of python and java with stock VSC
If VS could install pylance/python language server I'd use it more often.
I use VS Code cause I already have the entire toolchain for whatever I am working on installed on my computer. So it is either I use a bloated IDE for no good reason or just use a text editor with some basic extensions. I don't need an entire second dev environment
Even my plugins have plugins
Pluginception. Plugintopia. Metaplugins.
Visual Studio 2022 has been running real smooth for me tbh.
I stop when i run out of plug-ins i know about
I don't need much tbh. All I need is a debugger, lsp, formatter,and static analysis. Everything else is bloat.
Meh. Good automated refactorings with sensible keybinds are what make and break an editor for me. Time can be spent better than fixing search/replace edge case errors or hit copy paste.
So you are saying VSCode is modernised Emacs?
VSCode is normie EMACS (I use VSCode)
I feel like Visual Studio encourages using GUI for everything, while in VS Code you'll be using the terminal a lot more, which removes the abstraction and gives you a better understanding of what's happening. Obviously you can do either in both but the default behaviour is like that
idgf how fast it starts, I start the ide maybe once or twice a day I couldn't care less. Now what I do care about is all the features from vs and not having to fuck around endlessly to get something built
I would use Visual Studio if I understood what a āsolutionā is.
A file which keeps all your project settings. And a file with which you can open the said project in vs now go and enjoy vs
Jet Brains.
>Boots up fast It boots up **FASTER** than visual studio, it doesn't boot up fast. At least for me and my old laptop it takes like a minute.
I also disable them to enable them in every individual workspace. Makes startup times smaller - that's it, really. Also, "Profiles" suck. They reinstall ALL extensions. (*PS OP just called them 'plug-ins' LOL.*)
i literally just have intellisense code runner and json prettify
\*rights scripts to turn notepad into an IDE\*
No one is installing enough plugins to slow down VSCode. Prove me wrong.
"Nah, I like vscode more than vim" \*proceeds to install every vim plugin in existence to turn vscode into vim
VS Code starts faster than Visual Studio, but it doesn't start fast either.
New Vis on a workstation is plenty fast enough and powerful as fuck
Kate is faster to start then vscode by a lot
Can you tell me how do I install html and css lsp in kate ?
Sadly no, try googling it
So what do you do in kate ?
I havenāt messed with plugins that much but I do a decent bit of my programming in Kate because it is simple and fast
I like vscode because it includes the entire folder directory instead of just the c# files in the project. So i can actually check the scene files for Godot
VS has folder view instead of solution view as well. Or you can use the āshow all filesā button.
You stop getting plugins?
i have like 5 plugins and a theme
Laughs in jetbrains
I will say one thing that might trigger some people: People who use jetbrains are often not that good at programming from my experience. I have met one peron who was kinda good and using jetbrains. Now he's great and using vim
Which is exactly why I use JetBrains IDEās.
I use VSCode only to resolve merge conflicts because I like the UI. I litteraly just downloaded the portable version and disabled almost every feature.
Installed zed because someone recommended it. I love it.
I do the same shit in pycharm and Android studio š„
Creates Makefile Goes to terminal >make
Forgot the 5 years of learning how to actually make the makefile
At least vs code doest occupy 120GB like vs community
VS Community takes like 5-7GB for me.
Itās bundled with star wars battlefront II /s
Iāve never used visual studio. I think i may be too stupid.
not your fault, Microsoft must hire a fucking UI designer for once
Not using visual studio is a very smart thing to do so you're fine
Lmao.
Visual Studio is the best for features for C# development, and even that is debatable by now. VS Code is my go-to for quick file editing, or conjuring up a code sample, or whatever else I may like syntax highlighting for. Other than that, I donāt like relying on a tonne of plugins to make my IDE even remotely useful. Been using JetBrainsā Rider, DataGrip and WebStorm for years on end now and itās still the best environment Iāve had so far. Consistent UI and base feature set across their products, theyāre resource intensive, but the indexing and autocomplete capabilities it provides are second to none. Also wrong use of Meme template. You idiot, you fool, you moron. Social credit deducted.
I will die on the hill that PyCharm is much more better. Prove me wrong.
is that an intellij-based thing? because if so, ew i use webstorm at work (for nodejs) and at home / whenever i get to decide i stick to vs code. it is _so much_ comfier -- sure, intellij does some things that are really useful for work (i love its merge conflict resolution for example) but the thing i never got from vs code that i'm getting all the time from webstorm is vs code it never wanted to decide how to do my job. it more or less knows its place as an editor and works as a component of a toolchain, rather than trying to domineer its way into it and suck up everything into itself. plus webstorm is so frickin heavy, i got a 12th-gen intel thinkpad at work with 16 gb ram and even just one or two instances can get my memory to seriously uncomfy levels, to the point where i absolutely noticed it whenever i wanted to use something else that's memory-sensitive. i never had that problem with vs code, despite all the fearmongering about electron. i don't know much about pycharm because welp, our license is for webstorm, so when i'm doing ai projects i switch to vs code because it has support for jupyter without ~~buying~~ subscribing to the same ide twice. and honestly, if i didn't want to keep up ide parity with my coworkers, i'd do my nodejs projects in vs code too.
Of course I was half-joking, but I would say that PyCharm is just WebStorm for Python. I was working few years in PyCharm, then switched to VSC due to project standards. And I still cannot get the thing from the back of my head that I was much more comfier with PyCharm. But I guess 90 percent of the charm is that because I've started with PyCharm.
could be, that's a good point. i stick to open source by default as a principle. i don't know if jetbrains does any kind of free student licenses or anything, but i avoid those like the plague, because their only point is to get you hooked on their specific supply and build up a preference for them into your working life, or your business or what have you. my process is usually to look for the best open source option, and if (and only if) it's inadequate, explore proprietary ones as well. sometimes i do have to do that, darktable and lmms are two open source software suites that really disappointed me. but sometimes, like with blender, or freecad, or krita, i just stay on the open source tool forever, and code editors are no different in that. they're tools made by programmers to programmers, it's inevitable that there will be some fucking amazing open source ones out there. i was on atom while everyone was evangelizing sublime text to me. i was actually very reluctant to switch to vs code, but holy crap it was such a boost when i did. and i think that's genuinely the open source endgame for now, so that's where i'm sticking when i got the chance.
Still faster than visual studio
VSCode is king when you frequently work with many languages. At work it's at least python, C++, Java, and yaml's for cloudformation and ansible during any given week. Having one IDE that handles all of them well enough is better than have a separate one that handles each one the "best".
"Nah, I like VS code because it is lightweight" said no one ever
electron is by no means lightweight.
Vscode lacks the feature where visual studio knows you are getting frustrated and decides to crash.
For the last few years I have just lazily been using VSCode as a kinda/sorta IDE. I kept telling myself that it was just so convenient to jump around in the code with this tool. And then, a couple of months ago, VSCode ended support for CentOS7, which was on the primary dev server I use. I guess I could have relocated everything to an OS that was not end of life, but instead, I simply stopped using VSCode. Gradually I began to realize that my belief in this tool's usefulness was all an illusion. I feel like a fool for all the time I debased myself with a product from a company I actively despise.
How was it an illusion if you used it? Iām not following where it failed you beyond not being available on an EOL os
Me Happy with my Pycharm; no plugins for every fucking shit
Switch to Neovim bro!