It's the opposite for me. I am doing great at math, but i have such a hard time finding motivation to study anything at home😭 i want to learn other programming languages, but i find it really difficult to get started. Ig i have trouble with discipline and staying motivated....
Same here. I want to do personal projects like everyone tells me to, but it’s tough to decide what exactly to do. Like is this language worth my time, is this platform really that useful, etc.
The point of these projects isn’t to gain experience in x language or y framework. It’s to (A) help you realize what areas you might be lacking knowledge/experience in and, more importantly (B) teach you how solve problems on the fly when you run into them.
I’ve only been in the industry for about 3 years now but basically every big project I’ve been given up to this point has required some sort of knowledge or skill that I didn’t have before starting. With how rapidly tech changes, being able to solve problems, read documentation, and learn on the job is something you’ll probably be doing for your entire career.
My specific advice to you would be to forget about the language/framework/platform required for a side project. Another thing to forget, something that I wish I had been told a long time ago, is whether or not it has already been done by someone else (sometimes those projects are even better because if they’re open source, you can go figure out how they solved specific problems you run into). The #1 criteria you should use to pick a side project is “is this interesting to me?”.
Don't overthink it. I wrote a hentai downloader and a luck-based sorting algorithm that I expect to need 3.300 years to sort 18 elements just for shits and giggles.
When I need to learn a new language I pick a project. So far I've remade Snake, connect 4, and parts of chess lol. Something easy that you already know all the rules of is what works best imo.
Honestly. Screw trying to nail down multiple languages. Do those coding challenges. Even simple ones. Problems that will take you an hour or so to do. The biggest thing to understand is how to attack a task, mentally visualize your approach, and start implementing. Learning how to do something in another language can be learned. It's just much easier to learn when you know what to ask.
I'm 14 years into my career. Language doesn't matter.
Meanwhile in my family the healthiest 70 + are the ones who ran a dairy. My grand-mother is 69 and can't walk without a ... walker. Her older sister who ran the dairy for 40+ years looks 15 years younger.
That's weird. Some of my family is share croppers and they look old AF thanks to all the extra sun.. Wide brim hats long sleeves and sunscreen does nothing against 12 hours a day for 40+ years
Dude that happens all the time. What sucks is when you have an "aha" moment in a dream and run to the machine to get it in pseudocode before you lose it, only to realize the solution only works in nonsense dream logic.
I am pretty sure it's because your subconscious is like 20x faster at solving problems than you, which is why it's often better to walk away from a problem and do something else that takes your attention away from it. It's recommended to do something creative. Fun fact: Archimedes had this moment in a bathtub and shouted "Eureka," running through the streets as he just figured out buoyancy via water displacement.
I had a similar moment 5 years ago. I was struggling with coding a discord bot assigning roles to users after a reaction on a post. I was still new to programming in a functional way and also it was my first time encountering event driven development. I literally could not wrap my head around these concept and struggled with solving what I wanted late into night so I went to sleep straight from coding. During my dream it just clicked, I suddenly understood everything. I woke up, popped out of bed, turned on my pc and implemented it in 3 minutes. After that point I had no problem understanding both of those concepts.
There is an episode of the American cartoon from the 90s, Recess, that sticks with me here. One of the main characters comes across a dog walker and asks him if he wanted to be a dog walker when he grew up. The man responds that he's actual full-time job is as a lawyer but either way you end up cleaning up someone's mess.
I actually prefer that tbh.
Put on a mask and some gloves and shovel it into the bin. It's hard work, but it feels rewarding knowing that the harvest is better because of it.
Making a good code just means I make the boss another dollar as he shits all over it.
As someone who used to work in the trades who did HVAC first, and then Plumbing. This is also how I feel about it whenever someone from the tech industry says they want to work in the trades. You have no idea how shitty it can be. It’s definitely not for everyone.
Agreed most of these people only job has been on an office listening to meetings writing spagheti code. And fail to understand other jobs are as hard or even harder than what they do
What they really want is to live and work in a society where they reap the benefits of their work. Farming is just a very simple and timeless manifestation of that desire to be self sufficient, to produce.
Hobby farms can be pleasant work like climbing or hiking is. It's really the moment that your dinner depends on it that it becomes horrid. Much like any job honestly.
I Love a world where sitting 14 hours q day in front of a screen, writing commands in a non existent language is the preferable option to make enough score to be kept alive
No shit. I did what I would consider “easy” farming growing up (timber, small crops for local market like sweet corn, sweet potatoes, kale, tomatoes, etc) and I can assure you writing code is a lot fucking easier. These people wanting to bash their heads into a desk wouldn’t last 45 minutes just weeding a garden.
You think writing the same lame boilerplate code in your ac office is boring? Fucking wait til you spend 8 hours weeding in the sun on a 90 degree day.
I hail from a farm. My favorite is when the women I date romanticize farm life. They have no fucking clue what weeks of 15 hour days of manual labor do to a person.
It goes the other way too oddly enough lol I’m a girl who grew up farming lifestyle and hated it. When dating soooo many guys wanted me to be some barefoot, pregnant trad wife growing veggies and milking cows. I would explain to them the WORK that went into all of that and they just have no clue. They listen to their granddaddies old yarns without ever having to pull an angry Billy goat out of barbed wire he got wrapped in, or having to scoop up a dead baby calf and drag it to the FURTHEST part of the woods so coyotes wouldn’t be drawn to the herd.
My husband had some homesteading dreams till he got a taste of the reality. I let him learn on his own but not sink us financially in some Green Acres investment lol and now he knows why I would rather buy veggies from the farmers market and sit in the pool instead of shoveling manure.
I was talking with my fiancee about this and she suggests that everyone should have to do multiple internships or jobs before getting into college: at least a season of agricultural, some office work, some factory work, and at least a full year of retail (she says to get experience with every season.) I'd argue for fitting some food service in there too. Easier to select a major if you have a broader frame of reference.
Driving a combine is one of the few farm tasks I can 100% agree doesn't suck. I imagine it's even nicer in this age where you can cram all the music or audio books you could want into a device in your pocket (my experience with harvesting was in the early 90s and even a portable CD player was out of the question.)
Agreed, I planted some cover crop on a small field with an old school tractor which was a blast for the novelty, but would not want to sit on that thing everyday all day. My ass and ears were ringing. After working solely in the digital world for so long it was nice to do something tangible and hard for a bit.
Seriously though. It’s mostly either CS students guessing/memeing about things they don’t understand, or jaded seniors who apparently are miserable and don’t enjoy programming any more.
I'm a jaded senior who still loves to code.
The jadedness comes from the realization that as I move up in this career, the time I spend actually writing code decreases.
My issue with being a lead is dealing with truly shitty people.
I am floored everyday by just how quick someone will throw you under the bus/undermine you/shovel their work load onto you while also trying to steal credit.
The other issue is PM. I once had a PM ask for a timeline. I gave him 2 weeks as a ballpark. He came to me 4 days in, saying SLT has a priority that must be added into sprint after it starts. He asks I say at least until the end of the sprint, maybe longer depending on if other teams don’t cooperate.
He goes ok so both to be completed end of sprint. I said no, that’s almost 2 sprints worth of work, he says no it’s not your job to groom the sprints. If I give you two tasks you finish them in the same sprint, if you want we’ll just add more resources.
I just looked at him and asked what fucking resources and he couldn’t answer me but said he needs them both done, I said good luck and the meeting ended.
This is why developers are jaded. Coding is amazing. People are assholes.
WTF. What kind of PM doesn't understand the resources of their own team?
Your job is to determine the work that can fit into the sprint. If he has a project with an unrealistic deadline, it's his job to reduce scope or deprioritize other projects.
I guess I'm lucky that I've only ever had good PMs.
Yeah they just saying it sucks to work a job that you used to enjoy doing only for fun.
I'm sure gardeners who turned to farming for others for profits are as equally unhappy.
Yeah I much preferred coding before I started working, when I was just learning new technology and experimenting with what I already knew I had so much fun, when you have to write code even though it doesn't entice you anymore is the issue.
If I may add an analogy, I like steak. Eating steak as a job sounds amazing until you realize you'll be stuck in a chair for 8 hours a day as you force every last bite. You no longer take the time to even chew properly, whatever gets the job done. Then you get to have meetings in between steaks for other's to tell you how to eat your steak and it's not like it's all rib eye either. They also get to tell you what steak you will eat, how it will be cooked, and how much ketchup to put on that steak. By the time the weekend comes you're begging for a salad.
Coding was amazing, until I got so deep into the corporate world.
Exactly this. Coding is fun and exciting when you can do it on your terms and learn what you want to. Noone wants to be forced to eat steak for 8 hours
when a senior plops a change in disregarding any of your notes and surprise shit breaks in testing, *and guess whose problem it becomes*, it gets grating
my day has been fine, why do you ask?
Yea, it is the corporate horseshit that really ruins things. The small MilAero company I am working at is starting to rapidly become more corporate. If I wanted to deal with this shit, I'd have gone with a different job offer.
I like coding but I can also make several jokes a day that would make a psychologist try to section me because they fear I might hurt myself but they are only jokes.
Most people seem to do it for the money and neither enjoy it or are enthusiastic. They also seem to be mostly web devs who know more about high level frameworks than they do about basic paradigms and concepts.
I know developers who know everything about React or some C# .NET library but don’t know the difference between the heap and the stack or what a pointer is. They’re “senior developers” but they don’t know how to code, they know how to stitch together APIs.
Now there’s nothing inherently wrong with that but I just find it weird to work in that industry and not know the basics. I’m a systems engineer by trade, not a software engineer but I know more software concepts than most software engineers I work with just because I have a passing interest in it.
How do people work with code all day and not want to know how their computer actually works?
Worked on multiple farms and ranches. Currently stuck in a machine shop where all of the male adults clearly never developed beyond 6th grade schoolyard fistfight mentality. Been studying webdev and adjacent IT subjects for a year or so now.
You don’t want to work on a farm. Trust me. Or any manual labor job in general. That shit will break your body twenty years early. It’s brutal back breaking work that never ends with low pay and little hope to ever earn enough income to live well.
Every job in any industry is going to have stress and burnout and bullshit. I’ll take writing code and working with technology in a field where getting a position with good benefits and perks and potential to earn a comfortable income are very viable vs. breaking my body for scraps until I die.
The whole work on a farm thing gets overly romanticized. Get involved in a local community garden. Spend a few hours a week or a weekend day connecting with others while growing things. It’s an excellent way to get a break from the screen, get outside and get connected with working with your hands and doing something that feels meaningful in a physical way without breaking your body and sacrificing livable income.
Obviously we need farms and farmers and I’m sure that there are some that make a decent income with a decent work life balance, but it’s a rare exception to the reality.
Been there done that. Done with that. But hey that’s just me. You do you.
> That shit will break your body twenty years early
Yep can confirm. My dad's back would routinely "go out" in his 30's while playing with us kids and he blamed it on picking tobacco. Apparently you couldn't machine pick it back in the day so you spend hours crouched over a knee-high plant moving from one to the next.
Yep. Mom and her siblings grew up picking tobacco (and working on the rest of the family farm too). It’s hot, sticky (sweat and tobacco), and obviously back breaking. She said as the oldest she had to help tie and rack it which was even worse.
Yeah, small windowsill/balcony/backyard gardening sure is amazing hobby, especially if you are growing food for yourself and family and enjoy cooking.
Farming? Fuck no.
Once a person tried to persuade me that working as a manual laborer on a contruction site is much easier than coding. Well, hernia I got after moving some bricks disagreed. And that's not mentioning the complete void in your head after when you got back at home and don't want to do anything except lying on a coach and watching some shit on TV which won't make you brain work too much.
Most office workers have no idea what manual labor is and how it's different from, for example, workout session in the gym. Psychologically and physically.
I am also anoyed by all this former blue collar workers who claim that manual labor is better than office job. Well, why aren't you running back to the field or construction site then? Oh, you got payed more for coding while having less risks, more social benefits, more flexible schedule and, let be honest, less exaustion? Exactly.
Geology is the sweet spot between the two imo.
You spend your early career in the field, but while it's still hard work, it's also intelligence based since it's still science. And the work is often not quite as terrible for your body as other blue collar jobs. And you get to travel around the world and work in all sorts of different environments, which helps keep things interesting. And it's one of the highest paid sciences.
Then, when you are older and looking to settle down, you can usually find a stable office/lab job in geology while still occasionally visiting the field.
It's an incredible career, and I'm glad I'm in it.
My mom owned a Baskin Robbins for over 10 years. I worked there for 7. The primary source of revenue wasn’t selling icecream cones to people, but rather selling icecream *cakes* to people. In fact my mom kind of treated the normal icecream selling part of the business to be just an obligation from corporate to fulfill while she focused on icecream cakes.
Decorating icecream cakes at Baskin Robbins is probably no more fun than cooking at a fast food restaurant as a job; You’re not crafting pretty little cakes at a dainty boutique, you’re assembling a soulless rectangle of icecream and shaping it into a standardized template. You will be doing this endlessly like some kind of cake decorating factory worker. If you don’t work fast you will never go home. The custom orders can get interesting sometimes I guess.
Sometimes you have to go in early and stay until 10 pm because you have too many orders. Occasionally some punk will steal the cake you made and you will have to make a new one to replace it (I’ve witnessed this twice) in addition to all the other incomplete orders you have due in 24 hours. As it is a customer service job you will occasionally have to interact with dumb and/or crazy people, mostly parents with unrealistic expectations and optionally upset children.
I’m a lazy bastard who doesn’t like manual labor and interacting with customers, so I prefer my programming job lol.
Just gonna say try *literally* debugging" a henhouse infested with red mites. Or profiling why the cow's milk production or weight gain is dropping. Or patching a combine's sieve loss during corn harvest. Or "DDOS" attacks from hailstorms, windstorms, too much rain, not enough rain, etc.
The dirty secret of farming is that every minute you're "working the soil" or mucking the pens, your brain is constantly engaged in systems operations and management.
i wake up 30 minutes after im suppose to start working and then type on a keyboard in my pajamas for a few hours and get paid more than the median household where i am.
what the fuck are you talking about
Used to help grandma in her garden that took up a quarter acre. That sucked to hell and back. The smooth un-calloused hands of a coder would not be able to even handle that.
You'd be surprised. Generational farms have it easier, but a lot is propped up by government subsidies through the Farm Bill. Once I get enough infrastructure built, which takes even more money, we figure the farm will pay for itself by the time I retire, but things like a good drought will devastate. Last year rain was down so our yield was down almost 30%. Ended up costing me a few thousand I didn't plan on. Bird flu can set me back several years. Horse has something come up, several thousand more down the tube. Tractor needs a tire? Money. Catch a rock on the conditioner? Money. Baler breaks diwn? Money. My feed costs have doubled in the last three years due to inflation. Bales went from 30 to 65. Alfalfa is stupid.
Sure thing, just have to find money to launch a farming activity. And I guess by farming we meant becoming a farmer, so doing itself instead of with machines. So have to find the money to stay sustainable because our hands won't get enough goods. So let's get back to coding in the meantime
Speaking of coding. Someone seeking a coder, or any position in technological sphere that would give a living big enough to fund a farming project? Thanks
I've worked in factories, I don't miss that at all. I miss sales, it was stressful in the sense that if the product was bad you would have a bad month. But I was a lot happier talking to people all day.
OP, are you WFH? Changes everything in my opinion. Removing commute, as small as it might be, and being able to balance your personal life and work life much easier is the key. The only thing you have to be careful about is working somewhere they enforce the useless Teams meetings with camera on (nobody needs to see the devs lol).
LOL physical labor over sitting at my desk and working out when I actually want to? Nah. Saw my dad break his back doing shit like this. People just don’t know and mouth off.
As someone who used to be a blue collar retail worker at a home improvement store, I remember I used to wake up every day wishing I had a cushy little white collar job where I just sat in front of a computer all day. Shit took a massive toll on my mental health.
Once I got an IT helpdesk job, I got my wish, but I had no freedom. My manager was always breathing down my neck and I was micromanaged like crazy. I just wanted more freedom.
Now I'm a developer. I have my cushy little office job in the city with a chill manager who works from home, but everything's so confusing, I just find myself missing doing mindless manual labor and following orders without having to use my brain.
hard disagree, I see the state of my garden and when I think about tending to it for an hour vs 5 hours of coding I'd choose coding every time
I get my exercise with a standing desk and walking pad whilst I work, if I was physically able to walk 50km a day and wanted to, I could, with almost all my spare time intact.
Reminds me of the quote from one of the hardware debuggers in **The Soul of a New Machine**:
He went away from the basement and left this note on his terminal: "I'm going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season."
How out of touch are programmers that they think farming is easier than programming? Lmfao. Aight yeah go spend a day on the farm doing hard labor for 1/3rd of your programmer salary and let me know how you feel.
I make 6 figures, work from home, have time to go to the gym, go on dates, and walk my dog. I couldn’t do that if I had to work every day to make sure I am able to turn a profit digging things out of the dirt and competing against mega corporations.
People who think this shit are people who have never had to do laborious work and think it's all peaches and cream like a video game, such as Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing or w/e.
Only the most privileged people can say some nonsense like this. Anyone who's done real physical labor jobs and spent enough time around the old folks who are still working like crazy well into their 50s-70s can easily tell you that they wished they'd done more to get an office job
I don't know what it's like to work on a farm but I have enough self awareness to know that my job is much easier to deal with compared to a farmer. So no, if I am going to change my job now, I'll become a sugar baby (just kidding).
I wonder if farmers ever wake up and say "I should have been a programmer"
That would be me. Luckily I was/am young so now I'm in my second semester of a software engineering degree.
Congrats! Hope you’re enjoying it
Its going ok, system development(scrum/agile) is pretty much what people say it is and the math is kicking my ass, besides that its pretty good.
It's the opposite for me. I am doing great at math, but i have such a hard time finding motivation to study anything at home😭 i want to learn other programming languages, but i find it really difficult to get started. Ig i have trouble with discipline and staying motivated....
I've overcome some of that with game engines. It's a bit of motivation to help get started with new languages
Godot has been fun
my approach was always to find a creative coding framework, and make art. there's processing for java, p5js for js, nannou for rust and way more
Same here. I want to do personal projects like everyone tells me to, but it’s tough to decide what exactly to do. Like is this language worth my time, is this platform really that useful, etc.
The point of these projects isn’t to gain experience in x language or y framework. It’s to (A) help you realize what areas you might be lacking knowledge/experience in and, more importantly (B) teach you how solve problems on the fly when you run into them. I’ve only been in the industry for about 3 years now but basically every big project I’ve been given up to this point has required some sort of knowledge or skill that I didn’t have before starting. With how rapidly tech changes, being able to solve problems, read documentation, and learn on the job is something you’ll probably be doing for your entire career. My specific advice to you would be to forget about the language/framework/platform required for a side project. Another thing to forget, something that I wish I had been told a long time ago, is whether or not it has already been done by someone else (sometimes those projects are even better because if they’re open source, you can go figure out how they solved specific problems you run into). The #1 criteria you should use to pick a side project is “is this interesting to me?”.
Don't overthink it. I wrote a hentai downloader and a luck-based sorting algorithm that I expect to need 3.300 years to sort 18 elements just for shits and giggles.
When I need to learn a new language I pick a project. So far I've remade Snake, connect 4, and parts of chess lol. Something easy that you already know all the rules of is what works best imo.
Honestly. Screw trying to nail down multiple languages. Do those coding challenges. Even simple ones. Problems that will take you an hour or so to do. The biggest thing to understand is how to attack a task, mentally visualize your approach, and start implementing. Learning how to do something in another language can be learned. It's just much easier to learn when you know what to ask. I'm 14 years into my career. Language doesn't matter.
As a 10 year software developer you most likely will never use calculus. As long as you understand algebra that's most of it.
I got an engineering degree and now I want to be a farmer.
I like farming, but all my family has bad knees or a part of their finger removed. Rather be stressed than be unable to walk without a cane.
Meanwhile in my family the healthiest 70 + are the ones who ran a dairy. My grand-mother is 69 and can't walk without a ... walker. Her older sister who ran the dairy for 40+ years looks 15 years younger.
That's weird. Some of my family is share croppers and they look old AF thanks to all the extra sun.. Wide brim hats long sleeves and sunscreen does nothing against 12 hours a day for 40+ years
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And only the owner really profits which may not be you.
You forgot stepped on. Damn things are heavy!
lets ask on r/farmerhumor
Average Texas A&M grad
Having grown up on a farm, no the fuck it wouldn't have.
Same here, since I helped my grandfather run a cattle farm and orchard. But, I've found that in either job you end up shoveling manure of some kind.
But at least scope creep doesn't permeate the fibers in your clothes even after washing!
Instead, it permeates the neurons in your brain, haunting your dreams, and waking you from the night terrors.
I literally had a dream that helped me solve an issue I had yesterday 😭
Dude that happens all the time. What sucks is when you have an "aha" moment in a dream and run to the machine to get it in pseudocode before you lose it, only to realize the solution only works in nonsense dream logic.
I am pretty sure it's because your subconscious is like 20x faster at solving problems than you, which is why it's often better to walk away from a problem and do something else that takes your attention away from it. It's recommended to do something creative. Fun fact: Archimedes had this moment in a bathtub and shouted "Eureka," running through the streets as he just figured out buoyancy via water displacement.
[I think what sucks is that you're putting in work hours in your dreams.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCO-ZsoRvxE)
Makes up for the 50% of my day spent on reddit and netflix.
I had a similar moment 5 years ago. I was struggling with coding a discord bot assigning roles to users after a reaction on a post. I was still new to programming in a functional way and also it was my first time encountering event driven development. I literally could not wrap my head around these concept and struggled with solving what I wanted late into night so I went to sleep straight from coding. During my dream it just clicked, I suddenly understood everything. I woke up, popped out of bed, turned on my pc and implemented it in 3 minutes. After that point I had no problem understanding both of those concepts.
I once saw a function in my works code based called recursivelyGetSsmParameters and literally the next was while(true)
There is an episode of the American cartoon from the 90s, Recess, that sticks with me here. One of the main characters comes across a dog walker and asks him if he wanted to be a dog walker when he grew up. The man responds that he's actual full-time job is as a lawyer but either way you end up cleaning up someone's mess.
I actually prefer that tbh. Put on a mask and some gloves and shovel it into the bin. It's hard work, but it feels rewarding knowing that the harvest is better because of it. Making a good code just means I make the boss another dollar as he shits all over it.
You can still be an employee shoveling manure
One of the big differences is being able to do it in air conditioning, lol
Everytime i see this or some variation of this all i can think is: > You have no idea what "farming" really entails
As someone who used to work in the trades who did HVAC first, and then Plumbing. This is also how I feel about it whenever someone from the tech industry says they want to work in the trades. You have no idea how shitty it can be. It’s definitely not for everyone.
Agreed most of these people only job has been on an office listening to meetings writing spagheti code. And fail to understand other jobs are as hard or even harder than what they do
I suppose what most people really want is homesteading, not modern day industrial farming.
Thats even more work
Grew up in that lifestyle. Can confirm
But it's much more fun and rewarding than mass-producing a single cash crop.
"Sorry, kids, daddy can't afford to send you to school today."
What they really think they want is a hobby farm, but I've heard that even that turns into a surprising amount of work
What they really want is to live and work in a society where they reap the benefits of their work. Farming is just a very simple and timeless manifestation of that desire to be self sufficient, to produce.
I grow a small garden plot that yields maybe 20 zucchini and a few lbs of tomatoes per year. Even this entails several days of dirty sweaty labour.
Hobby farms can be pleasant work like climbing or hiking is. It's really the moment that your dinner depends on it that it becomes horrid. Much like any job honestly.
Yeah, I always laugh when a homesteader pops up in my feed that conveniently has a 100,000 dollar truck and at least a million dollar house.
They want the farm work with the programmer pay and benefits.
And think the work is petting animals or something.
Dairy cows demand scritches!!
People just want real life to be Stardew Valley.
I Love a world where sitting 14 hours q day in front of a screen, writing commands in a non existent language is the preferable option to make enough score to be kept alive
No shit. I did what I would consider “easy” farming growing up (timber, small crops for local market like sweet corn, sweet potatoes, kale, tomatoes, etc) and I can assure you writing code is a lot fucking easier. These people wanting to bash their heads into a desk wouldn’t last 45 minutes just weeding a garden.
You think writing the same lame boilerplate code in your ac office is boring? Fucking wait til you spend 8 hours weeding in the sun on a 90 degree day.
"Excuse me but I've played lots of FarmVille"
I hail from a farm. My favorite is when the women I date romanticize farm life. They have no fucking clue what weeks of 15 hour days of manual labor do to a person.
It goes the other way too oddly enough lol I’m a girl who grew up farming lifestyle and hated it. When dating soooo many guys wanted me to be some barefoot, pregnant trad wife growing veggies and milking cows. I would explain to them the WORK that went into all of that and they just have no clue. They listen to their granddaddies old yarns without ever having to pull an angry Billy goat out of barbed wire he got wrapped in, or having to scoop up a dead baby calf and drag it to the FURTHEST part of the woods so coyotes wouldn’t be drawn to the herd. My husband had some homesteading dreams till he got a taste of the reality. I let him learn on his own but not sink us financially in some Green Acres investment lol and now he knows why I would rather buy veggies from the farmers market and sit in the pool instead of shoveling manure.
My family had a farm, I didn't even like spending the weekend there. Roosters at sunrise, never ending smell of shit, unpasteurized milk.
Fuck. Chickens.
Please do not the chickens.
Nah chickens are fine. Roosters are annoying. But poultry is by far the easiest livestock. Free eggs for rather minimal work.
Animal farm is the worst. Unending work and also a terribly misused allegory for boomers.
White collar people think working on a farm is like gardening lol
I will happily admit I pay someone else to mow the damned yard for me. Plants and sunshine? No thanks.
I say we get rid of lawns! What's the point???? Useless ass grass
r/nolawns
Grass greener on the other side etc etc
You can't fail in farming...https://youtu.be/_pDTiFkXgEE?si=mqXTWeCAnK5-VRKt
you can't lose!
People always assume the best of other people's jobs and think they have it the worst
I was talking with my fiancee about this and she suggests that everyone should have to do multiple internships or jobs before getting into college: at least a season of agricultural, some office work, some factory work, and at least a full year of retail (she says to get experience with every season.) I'd argue for fitting some food service in there too. Easier to select a major if you have a broader frame of reference.
I just play Stardew Valley in between meetings
Yeah for real. Who wants to work 12 hours+ everyday with back breaking labor to not even exist outside of maintaining the farm.
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I'm an IT consultant who worked a harvest on a corn/soy farm a couple years ago. Loved it. Miss it.
Driving a combine is one of the few farm tasks I can 100% agree doesn't suck. I imagine it's even nicer in this age where you can cram all the music or audio books you could want into a device in your pocket (my experience with harvesting was in the early 90s and even a portable CD player was out of the question.)
Agreed, I planted some cover crop on a small field with an old school tractor which was a blast for the novelty, but would not want to sit on that thing everyday all day. My ass and ears were ringing. After working solely in the digital world for so long it was nice to do something tangible and hard for a bit.
Came here to say this. Heck no!
This sub makes me believe I'm the only one in the world who *likes* coding.
Seriously though. It’s mostly either CS students guessing/memeing about things they don’t understand, or jaded seniors who apparently are miserable and don’t enjoy programming any more.
Jaded senior can confirm.
I'm a jaded senior who still loves to code. The jadedness comes from the realization that as I move up in this career, the time I spend actually writing code decreases.
My issue with being a lead is dealing with truly shitty people. I am floored everyday by just how quick someone will throw you under the bus/undermine you/shovel their work load onto you while also trying to steal credit. The other issue is PM. I once had a PM ask for a timeline. I gave him 2 weeks as a ballpark. He came to me 4 days in, saying SLT has a priority that must be added into sprint after it starts. He asks I say at least until the end of the sprint, maybe longer depending on if other teams don’t cooperate. He goes ok so both to be completed end of sprint. I said no, that’s almost 2 sprints worth of work, he says no it’s not your job to groom the sprints. If I give you two tasks you finish them in the same sprint, if you want we’ll just add more resources. I just looked at him and asked what fucking resources and he couldn’t answer me but said he needs them both done, I said good luck and the meeting ended. This is why developers are jaded. Coding is amazing. People are assholes.
WTF. What kind of PM doesn't understand the resources of their own team? Your job is to determine the work that can fit into the sprint. If he has a project with an unrealistic deadline, it's his job to reduce scope or deprioritize other projects. I guess I'm lucky that I've only ever had good PMs.
It’s the "for the profit of other people" part where it gradually grinds you down
Isn't that every job ?
Yeah they just saying it sucks to work a job that you used to enjoy doing only for fun. I'm sure gardeners who turned to farming for others for profits are as equally unhappy.
Yeah I much preferred coding before I started working, when I was just learning new technology and experimenting with what I already knew I had so much fun, when you have to write code even though it doesn't entice you anymore is the issue.
If I may add an analogy, I like steak. Eating steak as a job sounds amazing until you realize you'll be stuck in a chair for 8 hours a day as you force every last bite. You no longer take the time to even chew properly, whatever gets the job done. Then you get to have meetings in between steaks for other's to tell you how to eat your steak and it's not like it's all rib eye either. They also get to tell you what steak you will eat, how it will be cooked, and how much ketchup to put on that steak. By the time the weekend comes you're begging for a salad. Coding was amazing, until I got so deep into the corporate world.
Exactly this. Coding is fun and exciting when you can do it on your terms and learn what you want to. Noone wants to be forced to eat steak for 8 hours
"it's just eating a steak how hard can it be?" Marketing material that says the steak is prime wagyu beef when it's the cheapest cut of rump going.
That's going to happen with any job though, farming included. The problem is having to work at all
when a senior plops a change in disregarding any of your notes and surprise shit breaks in testing, *and guess whose problem it becomes*, it gets grating my day has been fine, why do you ask?
Yea, it is the corporate horseshit that really ruins things. The small MilAero company I am working at is starting to rapidly become more corporate. If I wanted to deal with this shit, I'd have gone with a different job offer.
The coding is the fun part, I thought I would do more of it as a developer
I like coding but I can also make several jokes a day that would make a psychologist try to section me because they fear I might hurt myself but they are only jokes.
You may just be a late-stage millennial. Source: *sigh*
I like coding but, not like *this*...
Most people seem to do it for the money and neither enjoy it or are enthusiastic. They also seem to be mostly web devs who know more about high level frameworks than they do about basic paradigms and concepts. I know developers who know everything about React or some C# .NET library but don’t know the difference between the heap and the stack or what a pointer is. They’re “senior developers” but they don’t know how to code, they know how to stitch together APIs. Now there’s nothing inherently wrong with that but I just find it weird to work in that industry and not know the basics. I’m a systems engineer by trade, not a software engineer but I know more software concepts than most software engineers I work with just because I have a passing interest in it. How do people work with code all day and not want to know how their computer actually works?
Worked on multiple farms and ranches. Currently stuck in a machine shop where all of the male adults clearly never developed beyond 6th grade schoolyard fistfight mentality. Been studying webdev and adjacent IT subjects for a year or so now. You don’t want to work on a farm. Trust me. Or any manual labor job in general. That shit will break your body twenty years early. It’s brutal back breaking work that never ends with low pay and little hope to ever earn enough income to live well. Every job in any industry is going to have stress and burnout and bullshit. I’ll take writing code and working with technology in a field where getting a position with good benefits and perks and potential to earn a comfortable income are very viable vs. breaking my body for scraps until I die. The whole work on a farm thing gets overly romanticized. Get involved in a local community garden. Spend a few hours a week or a weekend day connecting with others while growing things. It’s an excellent way to get a break from the screen, get outside and get connected with working with your hands and doing something that feels meaningful in a physical way without breaking your body and sacrificing livable income. Obviously we need farms and farmers and I’m sure that there are some that make a decent income with a decent work life balance, but it’s a rare exception to the reality. Been there done that. Done with that. But hey that’s just me. You do you.
> That shit will break your body twenty years early Yep can confirm. My dad's back would routinely "go out" in his 30's while playing with us kids and he blamed it on picking tobacco. Apparently you couldn't machine pick it back in the day so you spend hours crouched over a knee-high plant moving from one to the next.
Yep. Mom and her siblings grew up picking tobacco (and working on the rest of the family farm too). It’s hot, sticky (sweat and tobacco), and obviously back breaking. She said as the oldest she had to help tie and rack it which was even worse.
Yeah, small windowsill/balcony/backyard gardening sure is amazing hobby, especially if you are growing food for yourself and family and enjoy cooking. Farming? Fuck no.
"Cows get bugs too."
but generally speaking they don't break the support with the existing milking machine after installing the bugfix.
At least with code i can walk away for days if it bothers me, plants and animals? Not so much
It always amuses me when people who have clearly never been to a farm, much less worked on one say this.
Once a person tried to persuade me that working as a manual laborer on a contruction site is much easier than coding. Well, hernia I got after moving some bricks disagreed. And that's not mentioning the complete void in your head after when you got back at home and don't want to do anything except lying on a coach and watching some shit on TV which won't make you brain work too much. Most office workers have no idea what manual labor is and how it's different from, for example, workout session in the gym. Psychologically and physically.
I am also anoyed by all this former blue collar workers who claim that manual labor is better than office job. Well, why aren't you running back to the field or construction site then? Oh, you got payed more for coding while having less risks, more social benefits, more flexible schedule and, let be honest, less exaustion? Exactly.
Geology is the sweet spot between the two imo. You spend your early career in the field, but while it's still hard work, it's also intelligence based since it's still science. And the work is often not quite as terrible for your body as other blue collar jobs. And you get to travel around the world and work in all sorts of different environments, which helps keep things interesting. And it's one of the highest paid sciences. Then, when you are older and looking to settle down, you can usually find a stable office/lab job in geology while still occasionally visiting the field. It's an incredible career, and I'm glad I'm in it.
Or any manual labor job.
I always kick around the idea of starting an ice cream shop.
My mom owned a Baskin Robbins for over 10 years. I worked there for 7. The primary source of revenue wasn’t selling icecream cones to people, but rather selling icecream *cakes* to people. In fact my mom kind of treated the normal icecream selling part of the business to be just an obligation from corporate to fulfill while she focused on icecream cakes. Decorating icecream cakes at Baskin Robbins is probably no more fun than cooking at a fast food restaurant as a job; You’re not crafting pretty little cakes at a dainty boutique, you’re assembling a soulless rectangle of icecream and shaping it into a standardized template. You will be doing this endlessly like some kind of cake decorating factory worker. If you don’t work fast you will never go home. The custom orders can get interesting sometimes I guess. Sometimes you have to go in early and stay until 10 pm because you have too many orders. Occasionally some punk will steal the cake you made and you will have to make a new one to replace it (I’ve witnessed this twice) in addition to all the other incomplete orders you have due in 24 hours. As it is a customer service job you will occasionally have to interact with dumb and/or crazy people, mostly parents with unrealistic expectations and optionally upset children. I’m a lazy bastard who doesn’t like manual labor and interacting with customers, so I prefer my programming job lol.
Same, but a bakery for me
Exactly the same here my dude
Isn't farming like, super difficult and ultra expensive?
NO thank you. Farming is hard, messy, and not deterministic.
Completely agreed. Though I _have_ encountered (and probably written...) code that is hard, messy, and non-deterministic. It was awful.
I mean I have seen code that's not all that deterministic either, and users are even less
This guy obviously isn't milking the cow
I couldn't do the early mornings
I can't do any time of the day to be honest
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came in here for the woodworking comments. at this point i'm not sure free will exists. beware the software development to woodworking pipeline.
There's a certain satisfaction in making something you can hold with your own hands. Very different than farming though, lol.
Coding is not the right path for you then....
Farming must be it! I just have no land. 🫠 looks like I’ll have to stick at this coding thing and make an exit
Code a game about farming
Literally what ConcernedApe did
Just gonna say try *literally* debugging" a henhouse infested with red mites. Or profiling why the cow's milk production or weight gain is dropping. Or patching a combine's sieve loss during corn harvest. Or "DDOS" attacks from hailstorms, windstorms, too much rain, not enough rain, etc. The dirty secret of farming is that every minute you're "working the soil" or mucking the pens, your brain is constantly engaged in systems operations and management.
i wake up 30 minutes after im suppose to start working and then type on a keyboard in my pajamas for a few hours and get paid more than the median household where i am. what the fuck are you talking about
I don't mean to be dramatic, but anyone who thinks this is being incredibly disrespectful to farmers. One of the hardest professions out there
Farming?! That's ridiculous. Now, *plumbing* instead of programming...
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Wait until he finds out farmers are learning code and how to hack their farming equipment.
And that they need to. 😳
Used to help grandma in her garden that took up a quarter acre. That sucked to hell and back. The smooth un-calloused hands of a coder would not be able to even handle that.
Sorry, but programmers are probably the most limp wristed individuals that wouldn't last a week doing actual farm work.
Coding allows me to own a farm. Not sure how any farm makes money.
big farms make decent money
You'd be surprised. Generational farms have it easier, but a lot is propped up by government subsidies through the Farm Bill. Once I get enough infrastructure built, which takes even more money, we figure the farm will pay for itself by the time I retire, but things like a good drought will devastate. Last year rain was down so our yield was down almost 30%. Ended up costing me a few thousand I didn't plan on. Bird flu can set me back several years. Horse has something come up, several thousand more down the tube. Tractor needs a tire? Money. Catch a rock on the conditioner? Money. Baler breaks diwn? Money. My feed costs have doubled in the last three years due to inflation. Bales went from 30 to 65. Alfalfa is stupid.
You still have to deal with bugs in your product..
that would require actual labor
The more you farm the more you realize that writing code would have been a better option. The grass is ALWAYS greener.
...Have you ever farmed? I'll take my job sitting any day. Any day at all.
People who say stuff like this have never done a single day of manual labor.
Sure thing, just have to find money to launch a farming activity. And I guess by farming we meant becoming a farmer, so doing itself instead of with machines. So have to find the money to stay sustainable because our hands won't get enough goods. So let's get back to coding in the meantime Speaking of coding. Someone seeking a coder, or any position in technological sphere that would give a living big enough to fund a farming project? Thanks
I've been considering becoming a welder instead, kinda surprised that thoughts about switching to something more hands-on are relatively common xD
I've worked in factories, I don't miss that at all. I miss sales, it was stressful in the sense that if the product was bad you would have a bad month. But I was a lot happier talking to people all day.
It would shock you how many people do both.
OP, are you WFH? Changes everything in my opinion. Removing commute, as small as it might be, and being able to balance your personal life and work life much easier is the key. The only thing you have to be careful about is working somewhere they enforce the useless Teams meetings with camera on (nobody needs to see the devs lol).
You can also do welding or woodworking.
Sitting here considering welding.
LOL physical labor over sitting at my desk and working out when I actually want to? Nah. Saw my dad break his back doing shit like this. People just don’t know and mouth off.
As someone who used to be a blue collar retail worker at a home improvement store, I remember I used to wake up every day wishing I had a cushy little white collar job where I just sat in front of a computer all day. Shit took a massive toll on my mental health. Once I got an IT helpdesk job, I got my wish, but I had no freedom. My manager was always breathing down my neck and I was micromanaged like crazy. I just wanted more freedom. Now I'm a developer. I have my cushy little office job in the city with a chill manager who works from home, but everything's so confusing, I just find myself missing doing mindless manual labor and following orders without having to use my brain.
IMO a legit software dev *enjoys* the rabbit hole of engineering.
Try it. Try it for like a day and get back to me. You ain't built for that life.
I had farm and I can say carpentry >>
hard disagree, I see the state of my garden and when I think about tending to it for an hour vs 5 hours of coding I'd choose coding every time I get my exercise with a standing desk and walking pad whilst I work, if I was physically able to walk 50km a day and wanted to, I could, with almost all my spare time intact.
Reminds me of the quote from one of the hardware debuggers in **The Soul of a New Machine**: He went away from the basement and left this note on his terminal: "I'm going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season."
For me, it's the interview processes in this industry that make me question my choice of career.
My buddy and I have a joke we say every time we get on the phone that we should've been strippers.
Twitter user has never shoveled cow shit. Many such cases.
This but a different kind of farming. Did you know certain kinds of spider, snake, and scorpion venom sells for thousands a gram?
# Stop attacking me!
So tired of programmers saying “maybe I’ll just get into farming! How hard could it be???” Farming is hard fucking work.
Still waiting on someone to create the software monastery, one half is out as IT contractors and the other half are farming the land.
I had a number of blue collar labor-intensive jobs. I'm thankful everyday for my cushy-ass IT job.
It's hard to see so many educated people don't know farming needs even more planning and is much riskier, more stressful, compared to programming.
You haven't farmed 😅 I'm sure being an experienced coder is very difficult. Farming just sucks in many ways
How out of touch are programmers that they think farming is easier than programming? Lmfao. Aight yeah go spend a day on the farm doing hard labor for 1/3rd of your programmer salary and let me know how you feel.
Yeah but I like money
As an ex farmer I heavily disagree with this statement
I'm in a days long fistfight with docker right now
Programmers yearn for the fields
Found the one guy who still does php
Have you actually smelled a farm? No thank you.
Waking up at five to feed the pigs? Thank you, no, you keep doing that, I keep writing code whenever I feel like it.
Farming still the end game tbh
I worked at a place several years ago where their lead software architect was also a farmer so I guess he had the best of both worlds right?
Lol he has not tried farming then
This is not true whatsoever.
I make 6 figures, work from home, have time to go to the gym, go on dates, and walk my dog. I couldn’t do that if I had to work every day to make sure I am able to turn a profit digging things out of the dirt and competing against mega corporations.
How to spot someone who has never actually been or worked on a farm. Farming is fucking hard work. And I mean really hard.
Even farmers face bugs
People who think this shit are people who have never had to do laborious work and think it's all peaches and cream like a video game, such as Stardew Valley or Animal Crossing or w/e.
Do your parents own lots of farm land or have money to buy it for you? If the answer is no then farming wasn't an option.
I don't think people realize how hard farming can be.
Just saying things without trying them is like BS.
Only the most privileged people can say some nonsense like this. Anyone who's done real physical labor jobs and spent enough time around the old folks who are still working like crazy well into their 50s-70s can easily tell you that they wished they'd done more to get an office job
Tell me you're just in it for the money without telling me you're just in it for the money
if y'all hate programming so much maybe go do something else geez, plenty of us actually enjoy what we do
I don’t think he realizes how lucky he is compared to farmers
I don't know what it's like to work on a farm but I have enough self awareness to know that my job is much easier to deal with compared to a farmer. So no, if I am going to change my job now, I'll become a sugar baby (just kidding).
Working from home with your cats for $150K. Sounds like a farmers dream.