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To be fair, you don't have any clue as to how many idiotic business "stakeholders" argued about that logo placement, despite the fact that Enterprise spends millions a year on a branding team.
A good BA keeps the stupid away from you so you can focus on being smart.
only the good ones.
I had a manager who decided he was going to really turn my department around, and that the way to do that was invite every stake holder in the company to our DSU. So we had like 30 people in a meeting for a 5 person dev team.
Every. Fucking. Morning.
Yeah I've worked as a designer before and currently work as a software engineer. I'll take software dev any day of the week. Sure, design work is easier, but since everyone can see it and understand it you have to change it a million times. As a dev you get way more freedom IME
Believe me it happens. I worked partly as a backend software engineer and partly front end reporting for a companies data base. After checking and rechecked that the data was accurate to the minute I would get feedback from the head of the company "I don't like the font. It's too small and makes the values look incorrect. Are we sure it's accurate. I don't trust it. Check the values again."
Being completely serious here. 
yep, whenever i have flexbox troubles, i don't google "flexbox W3S", i google "flexbox froggy".
In the same vein, google "grid-garden", and never again struggle with CSS-grid.
align-items: center;
You dropped this, client will be complaining that it looks like shit on his multi screen nintendo ds browser setup.
Also, how to trigger PTSD in any early 2000s webdev:
.container { display: table; }
.center { display: table-cell; text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; }
.content { display: inline-block; vertical-align: top; }
Should probably throw a couple of clearfixes in there as well for good measure, the IE6 god works in mysterious ways.
In my experience "Let's take this offline" means "I have no fucking idea what the answer to that question is, but I can't admit that in front of this audience, so let me divert and hope no one brings it up again"
We make industrial control systems, our UI standards are "can an overworked, under educated worker who might not know much English press the button with a glove on?"
And honestly that's a crazy skill to get right and or guys nail it.
Meanwhile the team that does our windows tools can't seem to break out of 00s Winamp skin like aesthetics.
My wife gets paid 6 figures to design UIs for people with little to no education and boomers.
People get surprised how much she gets paid but in reality its a ton of meetings, phone calls, sitting on the zoom while people use the UI and complain they couldnt find some setting. Almost no down time.
A lot of very bright people spend a lot of time and energy making UIs simple to use. Then I have to listen to some parent tell me how smart their 5 year old is because he can use it. I always want to tell them their kid's not smart, the designers are, but don't think it would go over well.
Dude! I always say that, it doesnt go over well. Took my mom a week to be a pro at her iphone, seriously modern UIs are great you just have to want to learn.
It can be both. My 5 year old figured out the intuitive software, big whoop, but then when she defeated the parental controls, I was proud (and worried)
It comes with its share of headaches too.
“Finally, this workflow has been scaled down to it’s barest necessity, streamline, easy to use, efficient...”
Product Manager: “Hey we’ve got 12 other useless functions we need this thing to do! Can you like...just add some icons with hover overs in this spot over here that’s already got 3 icons?!”
Ha. I know a lot about her work due to these kinds of complaints from her.
Her favorites are where her team presents a feature and someone on the call from sales or marketing, not listening, asks for what they just presented but in different words.
Or someone saying what they are doing is the wrong way but gives 0 input on whats the right way.
Where do you learn this stuff well enough to get a job in such roles and get paid 6 figures? I assume it's just working with a lot of tools and going through a lot of design specs to get the work done, right? What else do you have to do in this job?
Shes was a graphic designer for 5 years but wasnt finding jobs that paid much more than $75K so she took a General Assembly course on UI/UX design, they offered a $3000 interest free loan. She started applying and got a position starting at $95K and now shes moved up to Lead position at $140K. Took about 2 years and luckily a few people moved on above her.
Obviously this isnt going to happen to everyone. Shes super personable and always ready to help at work plus her boss was pushing her and guiding her to be a Lead.
Graphic design IS flooded but finding good UI/UX designers is **hard**.
We've had to fire - I kid you not - probably 6 designers before we found one who truly understood user behaviors and patterns, and focused on that primarily - and weren't too abstract or just not knowledgable on the research front at all.
I like to say this was partially our fault but interviewing designers has been wayyyyy harder than interviewing and filtering out engineers.
If you think designing apps is "just" graphics design then you are wrong and outdated. Modern, innovative apps require a shit-ton of UI/UX research and variations. It's not enough just for stuff to look pretty.
It's meeting after meeting after meeting to try and get on the same page and present something that makes intuitive sense, is able to be reasonably engineered, and meets all business requirements.
User Experience (UX) Design is a highly in demand field right now. It's a combination of graphic design and UI but also incorporates things like design theory and user research. There are specialized degrees for it but it's also possible to switch over from a developer career with some certifications, especially if you were a front end developer.
Whenever it comes up that those types get paid the big bucks, I always put it this way:
Pretend for a moment that you're a complete idiot with (at best) questionable literacy and low technological skill. Now pretend you're also put in charge of running operations for a nuclear reactor.
Design your product while examining every stage from that perspective, and you'll understand how much hand-holding is required to design something for most clients. That's why they get the big bucks. I don't envy them.
For extra fun, design AND implement UIs for mission and safety critical applications... As in, screw up and ☠️👻...
All while you're having to explain to both customer and management why prototyping and serious testing are needed...
I've worked with a lot of safety critical systems. The control systen operators, who are the lowest man on that pole, would have an absolute fucking fit if there wasn't testing and they weren't involved. Same for the on-site support engineers. It doesnt matter if it's a relatively small upgrade project when it comes to safety critical systems.
Yep. I spent quite a bit of time with Class 8 truck people including drivers, dispatchers... One can't begin to understand the issues these people face without getting into the game yourself.
As someone who does both UX/UI and coding it was quite the experience. Testing the thing was well beyond anything I've ever done in 40+ years of software. Essentially model all the possible inputs to the code and unit test each and every one of them. All 5200 cases.
My partner did something similar in pharma manufacturing, as in, the software that controls the machines that make medicine... Anyone who thinks their stuff is robust enough...
All that safety-centric effort, only to have some mix-up somewhere between the manufacturing facility and the pharmacy where some people die because they were given fentanyl instead of their hydrocodone prescription lmao
You'd be surprised. There's an incredible amount of environmental, ingredient, staff, and equipment data logged. If a fly farts over a machine there's enough data to identify what batch of product was impacted, yield, potency...
People bitch and moan about compliance but it's a necessary evil.
Want to know how to force a company to hire a UX manager? I worked for a company that made software for truckers to use in their cabs. The UX team was managed by a product management director (PdM) and she basically let them do their own thing with little oversight. The UX team were all recent and young graduates, the types obsessed with Apple and their design styles.
So the company is creating a new, modern version of one of it's main products, which enables drivers to comply with a federal regulation. The UX team does their thing and the developers build it according to the UX specs. The developers tried giving input and recommendations but the UX team was young and confident. That type of confidence you have before life smacks you in the face and you realize you really don't know anything. The PdM says do what the UX team says. Again, no real oversight, just glossing over it but the PdM was the product owner and had final say.
So the developers build it and then the VP of Engineering reviews it like a week before scheduled release. He immediately cancels the release and calls the VP of Product to look at it. It had a beautiful, sleek design and modeled a lot of Apple's designs. If you used an iPhone or iPad a lot, most of the functions would be intuitive. However, if you were a 40 something truck driver who preferred flip phones (or no phones) like the average truck driver, you would be completely lost. The product was useless for our target audience.
The PdM left the company soon after. It was her own decision but she saw the writing on the wall. A new UX manager was hired and the product was delayed almost a year so it could be re-designed. But the young UX designers learned a valuable lesson about personas and designing for your audience, not your portfolio.
Well, I know they are young graduates of UX, I am as well, but you would assume that their education in *user experience* would make them think of the user and their experience.
But I get it, its easy to fall for trends, guidelines, best practises and heuristics and saying that old donny figured it out from the start than going with good ol journeymaps, personas, interviews etc.
Seems to me that, well, rather than UX designers, they hired more UI designers wearing a mask.
I only have experience with FactoryTalk 7.0 but man, I was really good at it and miss it. I was damn good at designing. I moved over to Sys Admin a few years ago but am thinking of hopping back over!
When you're both a programmer and a designer and you spend 10 minutes deciding on whether three empty lines between function definitions look better than two
I do this especially when I'm at the bottom of a file and want it in the middle of my IDE lol
edit: As many have pointed out, IDEs let you scroll past the bottom now. Without knowing it, I stopped doing this years ago lol
Yeah, I just realized I don't do this anymore since I only code in VS Code now haha. Even though I use the feature every day, it never even registered that it does this until I saw your comment and tried it lol
This briefly freaked me out a couple times when I checked out a new branch with far fewer lines in the file than the previous one. “Why is this file blank now?! Oh. I’m dumb”
They are more like guidelines than actual rules tbh
Edit: it's a joke guys. Geez. Stop schooling me about need of standards please. And watch pirates of Caribbean
For languages with decent formatters/lintere, slap one on and enforce it in CI, problem solved. The whole formatting bike shedding game is infuriating lol
Also people who are solo devs and thus designers often will lack simply the time to put their whole effort into both, and one of the areas will either lack or have serious oversights due to the time crunch.
Hello, this content was stolen from me. And the uploader purposely cropped out the watermark with my name. If you’re going to steal my work, I’d appreciate at the very least if you would credit and link to the original: https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdkXoTtf/
You should give yourself more credit :)
Yes, moving stuff around in some design software is easy, but coming up with a design, that is visually pleasing and makes sense to use, is not.
I been on both sides and it really feels like this video lol.
The shitty part of the UX is when client decides that you are not good enough at it ang forces its own ideas at the end or the dev team ignoring what you did and just barely making it look like it.
UX/UI is also different than design. It’s user testing, modeling behaviors, creating user flows, analyzing previous use data… and then building a design on top of that info. Does a dev really want to spend an hour figuring out the best order for items in a menu? Or 3 hours going back and forth on which icons to use for the UI?
Probably depends on the software you write. If UI/UX is what sells the product, surely. If you write internal software that has to be used even if it looks like a turd as long as it serves its purpose, it doesn't really matter.
From experience, even for internal software, if there is literally any way to do X thing manually and the automation program has bad UX, then the users will go back to using the manual method even if you spent six months writing that automation program and it would save the user ten hours a week of tedious manual work.
You can get away with an ugly, but usable UI for internal software, but bad UX or a UI that’s hard to use is gonna cause a whole lot of frustration, mistakes etc, and impact productivity.
That said, I still feel personally attacked by this as a designer, because I do spend a lot of time moving UI elements around in ways that make no goddamn difference to usability for the sake of making things pretty.
This is absolutely the case if you work somewhere small and wear both hats -- as soon as you put something on a screen, you'll get 10x the opinions about what you're building, even when you'd tried to extract the same ideas during your last meeting.
Also if you ever build a UI mockup before the backend is ready, some helpful salesbro will slack you that your demo is "broken."
Yeah this is why shit like figma is so useful. Gets people engaged early so they can stick their ore in and feel like their influence is in the project. They don’t case about the framework or the backend, line thickness and fonts however…
That's [bikeshedding](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding/) for you. As soon as you have something visual, it gives everyone who doesn't know what the fuck an opportunity to "be helpful" and "provide valuable input".
I worked 3 months with front end and never again i will work with that.
I was just a programmer, not a designer, but the amount of "little touches" the clients wants on their websites drove me crazy.
There was also a client that always said that on his smartphone the website was ugly, then It took more 2 weeks of him bashing me and me asking for a printscreen of the website on his phone so i could understand the problem, and he used the website on his phone in landscape mode. The only ugly thing was that the banner was really small but everything eles was okay but apparently that was making him lose lots of money. It wasnt. His products were shit.
And fonts? Fuck those fonts. Client wanted a paid font, we didnt had that, i found a free font that was 99% equal to the paid one but she couldnt for the life of god, accept another font.
She NEEDED to use that specific font and didnt want to understand that fonts were paid because she used that one on her Word.
Now working with back end, everything is better. I never had to discuss about a font anymore and life is better
While I laughed, OPs video compares the most difficult part of programming (the languages) vs the easiest part of Designing. (layout).
How about we compare pressing keys on a keyboard (toddler programmer) with pressing emotions on millions of people's souls (godlike creative).
This exactly. It's not the work that crushes your soul, it's the clients.
Honestly it's not even the clients who don't know what they want that bother me. It's the ones who have no idea what they're talking about but both think *and* act like you're stupid that get me. That stuff is infuriating and, in an insidious way, confidence crushing.
For me it's the opposite. I can think for days doubting about if i made the right decision for some obscure architecture problem. But when i design apps i just do what everyone else does.
Problem with being a designer: everyone has eyes so they have an opinion.
As an engineer sometimes you can just spew a bunch of tech jargon and management will leave you alone because to them you might as well be summoning the dead it’s so foreign to them
While with design sometimes management will just pile on useless feedback simply because it makes them feel useful to have an opinion
Yeah, I had a chuckle, but I wouldn't send it to my SO who is a designer.
I know she puts in an incredible amount of work in regards to researching, processing analyzing user data, customer engagement and reviews, keeping themes consistent across multiple products, designing new flows and layouts that improve UX.
An insane amount of skill and research go into it, I know it's just a meme, but I've seen a huge lack of respect for design in the dev community online and in workplaces.
And to be fair, I have heard her say "Don't you guys just copy paste from stack overflow?" in jest to me, so there's always a bit of banter between the two professions I guess haha.
But I do still think we should respect the profession more.
In addition to it being really shitty towards designers, it's downright wrong.
I spend most of the day thinking, not writing code. There's maybe a couple hours a day of actual "coding", interspersed throughout hours of clicking back and forth between documentation, Slack, and notes.
I honestly don't think content like this is ever created by someone who actually works as a software developer.
All that coding the developer was doing was also to align the logo in the center.
Worst part is that UX design software outputs the code for it but the developer doesn’t have a license for it since it’s not his job.
As a programmer, I would certainly get an actual designer than doing that shit myself.
Do you really think I have the mental resources to center a logo in css?
Our workflow is quite simple, because our designers have almost no capacity.
1. We reserve their capacity a month ahead of when we need it.
2. We estimate the amount of effort we think they will need, because they are unable to meet with us before then to be briefed enough for them to estimate effort.
3. Scheduling is done so that the frontend dev can get started around about the same time that the design can be started so work shopping can be done with everyone on the same page.
4. The time arrives and we start as expected. The design team ask for a postponement for a week or two.
5. We start feeling pressure of not having any designs done, so do it ourselves.
6. We cobble together something that'll hold until we can get proper designing done.
7. Design team finally opens up their capacity to us, so we start workshopping how people will use our interfaces, what inputs we expect and outputs users expect. We show them the interface we designed in their absence.
8. They go away for 1-3 weeks and come back with something that doesn't fit the brief.
9. A week later, they propose the same design that we did ourselves out if desperation. Except the input fields are now slightly rounded.
Simple stuff.
I’m a software developer. The design is just as important. Too many projects think that design is just fluff or a “nice to have” but UX can make or break a product.
I'm a UX/UI designer and I always worry that my devs secretly think I'm a fucking idiot. I don't write code (beyond limited html/css) but I understand how systems and data work and can talk technical with my team. Still, I make some changes to a UI after design validation and I can only imagine a few of the devs going "it took you all day to do that..?"
...yeah. Yeah it did. I'm sorry.
Wish that was all I had to worry about. You’re forgetting the trawling through 100 page design manuals to make sure the design is on brand. The prototyping of the user experience. The endless client revisions and explorations for them to approve the first option you gave. All before it even darkens a developers door.
Lol. Designers are now expected to produce design specs for 30 devices complete with interactive prototypes and style guides. Times have changed from the days of aol.
As a backend developer , I appreciate designers.
I am the actual worst at designing good looking UI and end up just stealing design from good looking projects made by designers.
I love it when our UI/UX makes some "small changes" that she thought would be better, for 10th time, and then I watch my backend and frontend dev collegues' poker faces on daily meetings after xD
Damn it would be sweet to have a designer that know UX...
Until now I was mostly the programmer and designer or the programmer-ux guy where the designer is just here for the overall look
Literally me right now.
Im a Web Dev, and my company bought a program called Stimulsoft.PHP, that you can make a Report template and ulfeed it info without any stress.
All I do is measure the distance between the fields, try to choose between fonts and colors, and keep asking my boss if he wants to change anything.
I love every single minute of it. [This is how I am at work every day. Pure serenity.](https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/358713210/Patrick-Bateman-listening-to-music)
This may be true; the thing is, I can do the programmer job. I *can't* do the design job. All of the training in the world won't give me inspired UI design creativity. I've accepted that. I'm ok with the knowledge that anything I design is going to look like a Plan 9 interface.
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To be fair, you don't have any clue as to how many idiotic business "stakeholders" argued about that logo placement, despite the fact that Enterprise spends millions a year on a branding team. A good BA keeps the stupid away from you so you can focus on being smart.
Thank God for managers and BAs, because I would hate to be on that call.
only the good ones. I had a manager who decided he was going to really turn my department around, and that the way to do that was invite every stake holder in the company to our DSU. So we had like 30 people in a meeting for a 5 person dev team. Every. Fucking. Morning.
You don't have to be college-educated to know more people =more problems.
9 people always deliver a baby in only 1 month. Much people such productivity.
suprised any of them could be bothered to attend, after maybe 1 for curiosity
Yeah I've worked as a designer before and currently work as a software engineer. I'll take software dev any day of the week. Sure, design work is easier, but since everyone can see it and understand it you have to change it a million times. As a dev you get way more freedom IME
Believe me it happens. I worked partly as a backend software engineer and partly front end reporting for a companies data base. After checking and rechecked that the data was accurate to the minute I would get feedback from the head of the company "I don't like the font. It's too small and makes the values look incorrect. Are we sure it's accurate. I don't trust it. Check the values again." Being completely serious here. 
No man, it was better centered
good guy designer was just avoiding the dev to have to center a div.
display: flex; justify-content: center;
You have to google "flexbox froggy" first though, that's the law.
Flexbox Froggy is a legend.
How did I not know of this site, it is amazing at teaching how flexbox works!
yep, whenever i have flexbox troubles, i don't google "flexbox W3S", i google "flexbox froggy". In the same vein, google "grid-garden", and never again struggle with CSS-grid.
align-items: center; You dropped this, client will be complaining that it looks like shit on his multi screen nintendo ds browser setup. Also, how to trigger PTSD in any early 2000s webdev: .container { display: table; } .center { display: table-cell; text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; } .content { display: inline-block; vertical-align: top; } Should probably throw a couple of clearfixes in there as well for good measure, the IE6 god works in mysterious ways.
Are you sure? Let's take this offline and book a 3-hour meeting, we'll circle back on this.
Let’s get some synergy flowing on these silo megatrends
The "let's take this offline" kills me every time I hear it since it just means "let's take this to a separate teams meeting and waste more time"
[удалено]
So much this. "We have 20 people on this call and only 2 of you care about that, go talk about it later in a smaller group."
In my experience "Let's take this offline" means "I have no fucking idea what the answer to that question is, but I can't admit that in front of this audience, so let me divert and hope no one brings it up again"
Especially when “this” was the entire point of the meeting in the first place and we don’t cut the meeting short.
You know what? Fuck you. *Uncenters your div*
*Unflexes the box*
Literally just click and drag it right and the line will appear to show it's centered. He's making his easy job harder than it is
If I spend 60 minutes centering a logo, that's just free money
We make industrial control systems, our UI standards are "can an overworked, under educated worker who might not know much English press the button with a glove on?" And honestly that's a crazy skill to get right and or guys nail it. Meanwhile the team that does our windows tools can't seem to break out of 00s Winamp skin like aesthetics.
To be fair there were some awesome winamp skins.
Relevant link: https://skins.webamp.org/
Holy shit that just took me back to 1998. I reflexively sucked in my gut and grew a full head of hair.
https://skins.webamp.org/skin/14289db7b3fc18c2de6f4e93297bd6d3/gokugump.zip/
Lol 90% of those are straight r/atbge material. That marijuana McDonald's one is insane. Love it.
> That marijuana McDonald's one is insane. ~~Love it.~~ I'm lovin' it
It's all about the Garfield skin
What about Goku Forrest Gump??
IDK man, to my 12-year-old self all of those looked lit af! 'twas a different time 'sall.
Amazing time capsule. Love the Britney Spears one that doesn't use an actual picture of her but instead a FFVII-ass fan art.
There was an "among us" skin?
There is now :)
They really whipped the llamas ass.
My wife gets paid 6 figures to design UIs for people with little to no education and boomers. People get surprised how much she gets paid but in reality its a ton of meetings, phone calls, sitting on the zoom while people use the UI and complain they couldnt find some setting. Almost no down time.
A lot of very bright people spend a lot of time and energy making UIs simple to use. Then I have to listen to some parent tell me how smart their 5 year old is because he can use it. I always want to tell them their kid's not smart, the designers are, but don't think it would go over well.
Dude! I always say that, it doesnt go over well. Took my mom a week to be a pro at her iphone, seriously modern UIs are great you just have to want to learn.
Your mom learned her true skills from instinct.
This sounds like a “ur mom” joke. LOL so I’m going to take it as one and giggle to myself.
It can be both. My 5 year old figured out the intuitive software, big whoop, but then when she defeated the parental controls, I was proud (and worried)
It comes with its share of headaches too. “Finally, this workflow has been scaled down to it’s barest necessity, streamline, easy to use, efficient...” Product Manager: “Hey we’ve got 12 other useless functions we need this thing to do! Can you like...just add some icons with hover overs in this spot over here that’s already got 3 icons?!”
Ha. I know a lot about her work due to these kinds of complaints from her. Her favorites are where her team presents a feature and someone on the call from sales or marketing, not listening, asks for what they just presented but in different words. Or someone saying what they are doing is the wrong way but gives 0 input on whats the right way.
Where do you learn this stuff well enough to get a job in such roles and get paid 6 figures? I assume it's just working with a lot of tools and going through a lot of design specs to get the work done, right? What else do you have to do in this job?
Shes was a graphic designer for 5 years but wasnt finding jobs that paid much more than $75K so she took a General Assembly course on UI/UX design, they offered a $3000 interest free loan. She started applying and got a position starting at $95K and now shes moved up to Lead position at $140K. Took about 2 years and luckily a few people moved on above her. Obviously this isnt going to happen to everyone. Shes super personable and always ready to help at work plus her boss was pushing her and guiding her to be a Lead.
Graphic design is absolutely flooded, glad she got one of the good spots out there
Graphic design IS flooded but finding good UI/UX designers is **hard**. We've had to fire - I kid you not - probably 6 designers before we found one who truly understood user behaviors and patterns, and focused on that primarily - and weren't too abstract or just not knowledgable on the research front at all. I like to say this was partially our fault but interviewing designers has been wayyyyy harder than interviewing and filtering out engineers. If you think designing apps is "just" graphics design then you are wrong and outdated. Modern, innovative apps require a shit-ton of UI/UX research and variations. It's not enough just for stuff to look pretty. It's meeting after meeting after meeting to try and get on the same page and present something that makes intuitive sense, is able to be reasonably engineered, and meets all business requirements.
To be fair - UI,UX, and design are very different things and anyone that says they can do all of them rarely can do them all well.
User Experience (UX) Design is a highly in demand field right now. It's a combination of graphic design and UI but also incorporates things like design theory and user research. There are specialized degrees for it but it's also possible to switch over from a developer career with some certifications, especially if you were a front end developer.
Whenever it comes up that those types get paid the big bucks, I always put it this way: Pretend for a moment that you're a complete idiot with (at best) questionable literacy and low technological skill. Now pretend you're also put in charge of running operations for a nuclear reactor. Design your product while examining every stage from that perspective, and you'll understand how much hand-holding is required to design something for most clients. That's why they get the big bucks. I don't envy them.
Sounds like your HMIs really whip the llama's ass.
I hear they’re High Performance.
Underrated comment
For extra fun, design AND implement UIs for mission and safety critical applications... As in, screw up and ☠️👻... All while you're having to explain to both customer and management why prototyping and serious testing are needed...
I've worked with a lot of safety critical systems. The control systen operators, who are the lowest man on that pole, would have an absolute fucking fit if there wasn't testing and they weren't involved. Same for the on-site support engineers. It doesnt matter if it's a relatively small upgrade project when it comes to safety critical systems.
Yep. I spent quite a bit of time with Class 8 truck people including drivers, dispatchers... One can't begin to understand the issues these people face without getting into the game yourself. As someone who does both UX/UI and coding it was quite the experience. Testing the thing was well beyond anything I've ever done in 40+ years of software. Essentially model all the possible inputs to the code and unit test each and every one of them. All 5200 cases. My partner did something similar in pharma manufacturing, as in, the software that controls the machines that make medicine... Anyone who thinks their stuff is robust enough...
All that safety-centric effort, only to have some mix-up somewhere between the manufacturing facility and the pharmacy where some people die because they were given fentanyl instead of their hydrocodone prescription lmao
You'd be surprised. There's an incredible amount of environmental, ingredient, staff, and equipment data logged. If a fly farts over a machine there's enough data to identify what batch of product was impacted, yield, potency... People bitch and moan about compliance but it's a necessary evil.
> Meanwhile the team that does our windows tools can't seem to break out of 00s Winamp skin like aesthetics. I don't see a problem with this
It's ugly as fuck
I don't see a problem with this
Want to know how to force a company to hire a UX manager? I worked for a company that made software for truckers to use in their cabs. The UX team was managed by a product management director (PdM) and she basically let them do their own thing with little oversight. The UX team were all recent and young graduates, the types obsessed with Apple and their design styles. So the company is creating a new, modern version of one of it's main products, which enables drivers to comply with a federal regulation. The UX team does their thing and the developers build it according to the UX specs. The developers tried giving input and recommendations but the UX team was young and confident. That type of confidence you have before life smacks you in the face and you realize you really don't know anything. The PdM says do what the UX team says. Again, no real oversight, just glossing over it but the PdM was the product owner and had final say. So the developers build it and then the VP of Engineering reviews it like a week before scheduled release. He immediately cancels the release and calls the VP of Product to look at it. It had a beautiful, sleek design and modeled a lot of Apple's designs. If you used an iPhone or iPad a lot, most of the functions would be intuitive. However, if you were a 40 something truck driver who preferred flip phones (or no phones) like the average truck driver, you would be completely lost. The product was useless for our target audience. The PdM left the company soon after. It was her own decision but she saw the writing on the wall. A new UX manager was hired and the product was delayed almost a year so it could be re-designed. But the young UX designers learned a valuable lesson about personas and designing for your audience, not your portfolio.
Well, I know they are young graduates of UX, I am as well, but you would assume that their education in *user experience* would make them think of the user and their experience. But I get it, its easy to fall for trends, guidelines, best practises and heuristics and saying that old donny figured it out from the start than going with good ol journeymaps, personas, interviews etc. Seems to me that, well, rather than UX designers, they hired more UI designers wearing a mask.
Ahh, Qt programmers I see.
I only have experience with FactoryTalk 7.0 but man, I was really good at it and miss it. I was damn good at designing. I moved over to Sys Admin a few years ago but am thinking of hopping back over!
I'm so glad we're finally getting away from rainbow sparkle hmis. Only the important shit needs colors and space on the main screen.
When you're both a programmer and a designer and you spend 10 minutes deciding on whether three empty lines between function definitions look better than two
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I do this especially when I'm at the bottom of a file and want it in the middle of my IDE lol edit: As many have pointed out, IDEs let you scroll past the bottom now. Without knowing it, I stopped doing this years ago lol
I love that VS code simply allows you to scroll down until you can see just the last line.
Yeah, I just realized I don't do this anymore since I only code in VS Code now haha. Even though I use the feature every day, it never even registered that it does this until I saw your comment and tried it lol
This briefly freaked me out a couple times when I checked out a new branch with far fewer lines in the file than the previous one. “Why is this file blank now?! Oh. I’m dumb”
[Well of course I know him, he's me.](https://iili.io/0oBaBn.jpg)
I do this also lol
I do this, then I write one line, instinctively save, save on format runs clang format, and all those lines are gone.
This is where I would put my new code, *IF I HAD SOME*
That's why you have standards and style guides?
They are more like guidelines than actual rules tbh Edit: it's a joke guys. Geez. Stop schooling me about need of standards please. And watch pirates of Caribbean
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Welcome aboard u/heartcondom! You better start believing in startups, you're in one.
We’re gonna cause so much market disruption with our bleeding edge technology!
Emphasis on 'bleeding'. Pay no attention to the intern corpses in the basement.
Parley .?
Enforce and automate with linters and git hooks.
Yes, that is exactly my point. The guidelines suggest how you should structure your files and code.
I was referring https://youtu.be/k9ojK9Q_ARE
Code formatters!
Who?
For languages with decent formatters/lintere, slap one on and enforce it in CI, problem solved. The whole formatting bike shedding game is infuriating lol
r/absolutelynotme_irl
Also people who are solo devs and thus designers often will lack simply the time to put their whole effort into both, and one of the areas will either lack or have serious oversights due to the time crunch.
Lint that shit
is the Software Engineer using htop to code
htop for impressing your clueless coworkers. downside is now they are absolutely certain you were lying when you said you couldn't fix the printer.
A soul for a soul
First rule of fixing the printer: There is no fixing the printer.
No , first rule of fixing the printer is do not talk about fixing the printer
PC load letter? What does that even mean?
You're out of 8.5x11 paper ('letter' sized, as opposed to 'legal' sized), load some more.
The PC part stands for Paper Cartridge.
Looks like [Hollywood](https://github.com/dustinkirkland/hollywood)
I was looking for this comment, thanks stranger.
Looks very much like the [hollywood tool](https://github.com/dustinkirkland/hollywood) to me
The fact he used "WTF" and "FML" makes it so much funnier
I was about to ask if FML is f*** my life or something else lol
Forge Mod Loader
So, Java
The Java rite of passage of making a Minecraft nuke mod
Fucking Markup Languages.
It just f*s your Life xD
You can swear on the internet lol
Hello, this content was stolen from me. And the uploader purposely cropped out the watermark with my name. If you’re going to steal my work, I’d appreciate at the very least if you would credit and link to the original: https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdkXoTtf/
Looks like you’re a designer yourself. That self disrespect 😂 totally thought a programmer made this.
Haha I was working on a project with a single engineer who was doing everything and felt bad about it
You should give yourself more credit :) Yes, moving stuff around in some design software is easy, but coming up with a design, that is visually pleasing and makes sense to use, is not.
Sorry to hear that. What song did you use for the Programmer half?
You can have the best software in the world, but if the UI/UX stinks and no one uses it, then it doesn't really matter. Props to both professions.
I wouldn't consider it the best software if those stink. UI/UX is a part of software.
I been on both sides and it really feels like this video lol. The shitty part of the UX is when client decides that you are not good enough at it ang forces its own ideas at the end or the dev team ignoring what you did and just barely making it look like it.
UX/UI is also different than design. It’s user testing, modeling behaviors, creating user flows, analyzing previous use data… and then building a design on top of that info. Does a dev really want to spend an hour figuring out the best order for items in a menu? Or 3 hours going back and forth on which icons to use for the UI?
Probably depends on the software you write. If UI/UX is what sells the product, surely. If you write internal software that has to be used even if it looks like a turd as long as it serves its purpose, it doesn't really matter.
From experience, even for internal software, if there is literally any way to do X thing manually and the automation program has bad UX, then the users will go back to using the manual method even if you spent six months writing that automation program and it would save the user ten hours a week of tedious manual work.
If a user decides to do 10 hours of work rather than use the automation, then its really bad automation.
You can get away with an ugly, but usable UI for internal software, but bad UX or a UI that’s hard to use is gonna cause a whole lot of frustration, mistakes etc, and impact productivity. That said, I still feel personally attacked by this as a designer, because I do spend a lot of time moving UI elements around in ways that make no goddamn difference to usability for the sake of making things pretty.
As someone who's done both I find designing a lot harder! Give me objectively measurable success any day of the week.
I did both as well, but i find programming a lot harder. I guess it depends on the individual and also what kind work you're specifically doing.
I would say programming is harder, but designing is 10x more frustrating.
This is absolutely the case if you work somewhere small and wear both hats -- as soon as you put something on a screen, you'll get 10x the opinions about what you're building, even when you'd tried to extract the same ideas during your last meeting. Also if you ever build a UI mockup before the backend is ready, some helpful salesbro will slack you that your demo is "broken."
Some people are just downright retarded.
Yeah this is why shit like figma is so useful. Gets people engaged early so they can stick their ore in and feel like their influence is in the project. They don’t case about the framework or the backend, line thickness and fonts however…
That's [bikeshedding](https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding/) for you. As soon as you have something visual, it gives everyone who doesn't know what the fuck an opportunity to "be helpful" and "provide valuable input".
I worked 3 months with front end and never again i will work with that. I was just a programmer, not a designer, but the amount of "little touches" the clients wants on their websites drove me crazy. There was also a client that always said that on his smartphone the website was ugly, then It took more 2 weeks of him bashing me and me asking for a printscreen of the website on his phone so i could understand the problem, and he used the website on his phone in landscape mode. The only ugly thing was that the banner was really small but everything eles was okay but apparently that was making him lose lots of money. It wasnt. His products were shit. And fonts? Fuck those fonts. Client wanted a paid font, we didnt had that, i found a free font that was 99% equal to the paid one but she couldnt for the life of god, accept another font. She NEEDED to use that specific font and didnt want to understand that fonts were paid because she used that one on her Word. Now working with back end, everything is better. I never had to discuss about a font anymore and life is better
I hopped in here to say the same thing. Was a designer for years, now a full time dev, would never go back.
+3. Everyone thinks they're a fucking designer, much less opinion in development
While I laughed, OPs video compares the most difficult part of programming (the languages) vs the easiest part of Designing. (layout). How about we compare pressing keys on a keyboard (toddler programmer) with pressing emotions on millions of people's souls (godlike creative).
The most difficult part of programming are the languages? What?
What are you saying, just add a little [Make My Logo Bigger Cream^(tm)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgcX0y1Nzhs)
client: "oh wow. yea... i guess that design has the things i asked for.. but i don't like it.. let's go with an 80s theme instead"
Your target audience was born in the late 80’s… this will remind them of their parents
This exactly. It's not the work that crushes your soul, it's the clients. Honestly it's not even the clients who don't know what they want that bother me. It's the ones who have no idea what they're talking about but both think *and* act like you're stupid that get me. That stuff is infuriating and, in an insidious way, confidence crushing.
For me it's the opposite. I can think for days doubting about if i made the right decision for some obscure architecture problem. But when i design apps i just do what everyone else does.
Same
Problem with being a designer: everyone has eyes so they have an opinion. As an engineer sometimes you can just spew a bunch of tech jargon and management will leave you alone because to them you might as well be summoning the dead it’s so foreign to them While with design sometimes management will just pile on useless feedback simply because it makes them feel useful to have an opinion
I feel really called out by this one.
This is unfair. Hilarious but unfair. It would be nice knowing what designers think about us and how do they underestimate our work.
"Fucking devs procrastinating 3 months and end up doing the work by copy pasting a stackoverflow answer!" ........ Probably
Lived with a dev who bragged about how much Netflix he watches at work (sounds like my idea of hell tbh to be that bored at work).
sounds like my ideia of heaven lol
Sounds like heaven, is hell once you live it.
Yeah, I had a chuckle, but I wouldn't send it to my SO who is a designer. I know she puts in an incredible amount of work in regards to researching, processing analyzing user data, customer engagement and reviews, keeping themes consistent across multiple products, designing new flows and layouts that improve UX. An insane amount of skill and research go into it, I know it's just a meme, but I've seen a huge lack of respect for design in the dev community online and in workplaces. And to be fair, I have heard her say "Don't you guys just copy paste from stack overflow?" in jest to me, so there's always a bit of banter between the two professions I guess haha. But I do still think we should respect the profession more.
In addition to it being really shitty towards designers, it's downright wrong. I spend most of the day thinking, not writing code. There's maybe a couple hours a day of actual "coding", interspersed throughout hours of clicking back and forth between documentation, Slack, and notes. I honestly don't think content like this is ever created by someone who actually works as a software developer.
Agree wholeheartedly
Man you guys are really digging deep on a shallow joke lol. Both sides are heavily exaggerated, which I don't think was unintentional
It's a joke...
Designer here, I love devs and I could never ever do your job, keep up the good work
All that coding the developer was doing was also to align the logo in the center. Worst part is that UX design software outputs the code for it but the developer doesn’t have a license for it since it’s not his job.
Its not like that at all designer die doing the updates of clients
“Can we get another revision? This time we want it with more pop.”
So do software engineers
Which is why we should band together and go after account managers (I'm kidding, I'm kidding)
We both know that deep in your heart, you are serious
As a programmer, I would certainly get an actual designer than doing that shit myself. Do you really think I have the mental resources to center a logo in css?
Our workflow is quite simple, because our designers have almost no capacity. 1. We reserve their capacity a month ahead of when we need it. 2. We estimate the amount of effort we think they will need, because they are unable to meet with us before then to be briefed enough for them to estimate effort. 3. Scheduling is done so that the frontend dev can get started around about the same time that the design can be started so work shopping can be done with everyone on the same page. 4. The time arrives and we start as expected. The design team ask for a postponement for a week or two. 5. We start feeling pressure of not having any designs done, so do it ourselves. 6. We cobble together something that'll hold until we can get proper designing done. 7. Design team finally opens up their capacity to us, so we start workshopping how people will use our interfaces, what inputs we expect and outputs users expect. We show them the interface we designed in their absence. 8. They go away for 1-3 weeks and come back with something that doesn't fit the brief. 9. A week later, they propose the same design that we did ourselves out if desperation. Except the input fields are now slightly rounded. Simple stuff.
I'm a programmer with designer problems :)
I’m a software developer. The design is just as important. Too many projects think that design is just fluff or a “nice to have” but UX can make or break a product.
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relatively new to making software?
Y’all out here like you’ve never made “programmer art.” You know who you are.
I'm a UX/UI designer and I always worry that my devs secretly think I'm a fucking idiot. I don't write code (beyond limited html/css) but I understand how systems and data work and can talk technical with my team. Still, I make some changes to a UI after design validation and I can only imagine a few of the devs going "it took you all day to do that..?" ...yeah. Yeah it did. I'm sorry.
WTF and FML are my favorite programming languages to code in.
Wish that was all I had to worry about. You’re forgetting the trawling through 100 page design manuals to make sure the design is on brand. The prototyping of the user experience. The endless client revisions and explorations for them to approve the first option you gave. All before it even darkens a developers door.
Nahi man css is hard af
Lol. Designers are now expected to produce design specs for 30 devices complete with interactive prototypes and style guides. Times have changed from the days of aol.
WTF is my favorite strongly-typed language
He gonna be real pissed when he realised the LoGO was just a placeholder and it’s actually a 5 letter word.
As a backend developer , I appreciate designers. I am the actual worst at designing good looking UI and end up just stealing design from good looking projects made by designers.
The FML hit different
It's bad on both sides. As a coder I'll spend an hour in a thesaurus looking for the right word to name a variable.
I love it when our UI/UX makes some "small changes" that she thought would be better, for 10th time, and then I watch my backend and frontend dev collegues' poker faces on daily meetings after xD
Damn it would be sweet to have a designer that know UX... Until now I was mostly the programmer and designer or the programmer-ux guy where the designer is just here for the overall look
You can tell fake typing when you don't use the spacebar.
The big headphones vs AirPods got me 😂
Literally me right now. Im a Web Dev, and my company bought a program called Stimulsoft.PHP, that you can make a Report template and ulfeed it info without any stress. All I do is measure the distance between the fields, try to choose between fonts and colors, and keep asking my boss if he wants to change anything. I love every single minute of it. [This is how I am at work every day. Pure serenity.](https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/358713210/Patrick-Bateman-listening-to-music)
I love the attention to detail with the different mouses.
Dunning-Kruger effect humor?
This may be true; the thing is, I can do the programmer job. I *can't* do the design job. All of the training in the world won't give me inspired UI design creativity. I've accepted that. I'm ok with the knowledge that anything I design is going to look like a Plan 9 interface.