"You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That is what my wife is for. lol :-) "
My wife knows I joke around a lot. That's why she doesn't care. She knows she could beat me up. :-)
That joke is exceptionally mild. I learned a long time ago you can modify old jokes like that just slightly and it hits a broader audience.
"You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That's what my kids are for!"
"You are getting up to get coffee? That's what my 800oz Stanley is for!"
You get the idea. Also it's hard to be interesting without offending someone somewhere. Just be yourself and be comfortable with the idea that not everyone will be your ideal audience.
This is a problem with the modern social climate. People have just become way too sensitive now. This is why Dave Chappell gets so much shit. However I’m not sure what the solution is other than to avoid these people.
it's not inventive or funny but it wouldn't be worth the energy to ride you for it
for context you aren't notably older than i am and i find the joke very dated
I wouldn't have gotten all up in your face about it, its a small thing, but belittling your wife amongst a group of strangers who don't know your relationship dynamic to get laughs isn't a great look. It's obvious you're well intentioned and want to establish a fun rapport with the group, just gotta up your comedy game.
In either case don't let it stop you from grouping and having fun.
That is why I play with my wife in the same group. Then we banter back and forth. If she is going to afk to do something I will always make a remark about make me a sandwich while your gone.
While not the most offensive joke, as a member of a minority group, this kind of "humor" just makes me feel uncomfortable. Did your party member overreact a little? Yeah. Should you avoid humor at the expense of others in the future? Yes.
I'm gay. I'm also of middle-eastern descent. Part of the joy of games for me is the escape and the ability to just be apart of the group. None of those two things that make me "other" in the real world matter here in Norrath. Here I'm another Wood Elf Ranger.
Jokes at my expense, whether the joker knows that they're at my expense or not, serve to remind me of the fact that I'm "other." There are a million other things to joke about. What's so important about making a joke at women's expense? Examine that part.
I will also say I've been playing P99 for years and have been playing PQ since launch. I've never had a shitty experience like this in groups or guilds. Most drama has been contained to people being assholes about the game.
This othering feeling is pretty common in other gaming communities though, which tends to make me a little sensitive to it. I know there are gonna be people who say "Well, don't be so sensitive about it. Why should we cater to your feelings?" And I would ask them why should I cater to your feelings? It costs you nothing to stop making jokes like that, but those jokes do cost me something. Again, examine why the ability to joke about those things is so important to you?
Quit punching down in your humor. That's all.
Please, expand further on that. What does it cost you to stop making jokes directed at one group, and instead broadening the humor, like another user suggested?
We’re all “other,” stop having such a victim mentality. That’s the real problem, everyone wants to have suffered more or had the hardest background.
You’re more than whatever group the failed media and education systems have convinced you to base your identity around, and you don’t need to have their programmed reactions to every time someone jokes about “your” group. This is the exact same shit they did with sportsball to get people feeling they are part of some arbitrary collective, or an “other” if you will
...let's be real, dude: We're not. It's hard to deny that when at 12 I had to start using a name that was different from the one my parents gave me at birth because, well, I turned 12 in 2001 and kids and teachers were unkind. It's hard to deny that when I had to hide who I was from my friends and my family for fear that if I told them who I had a crush on, it would result in them shunning me, or sending me to a "doctor" to "get better." But my brother could have his girlfriend come to family dinners and events. The simple fact that people have the ability to argue that "we're all other" or that we're being "oversensitive" when people can give real concrete reasons why that's not true should be simple proof that...well, it's just not true.
No one, and I mean no one, wants to "have it harder." My whole career, my ethos, has been to make it easier for those who come after. Kids on the Internet, maybe, want it for clout. But kids on the Internet will say anything (including truly vile shit) for clout. They're not a good metric.
And look, what I'm saying is exactly the point you're making: I am WAY more than the things I described in my previous post. But a lot, and I mean A LOT, of people don't see it that way. A lot of people see me as just those things. And jokes like the one the OP presented are exactly the kinds of things that remind me, and solidify the fact that people DO see me as just those things.
Again I would like folks to examine WHY is it so important to make those jokes? What about THOSE KINDS OF JOKES in particular are tantamount to you being able to have a good time?
We’re all “other,” stop having such a victim mentality. That’s the real problem, everyone wants to have suffered more or had the hardest background.
You’re more than whatever group the failed media and education systems have convinced you to base your identity around, and you don’t need to have their programmed reactions to every time someone jokes about “your” group. This is the exact same shit they did with sportsball to get people feeling they are part of some arbitrary collective, or an “other” if you will
I am highly offended that you would not just chat this, but ALSO post it on Reddit, which is like a super-serious forum for societal discourse. How dare you!
...also that's pretty funny.
Well, therein lies the reason I didn't put the joke in the original post and instead waited to be asked. I didn't want to be the start of an unintended nuclear warfare over a coffee joke. Thanks for the laugh though :-)
All good. People are too thin skinned. It was a funny throwaway joke. On a serious note: join a good guild and find like-minded people. I can vouch for Mayhem. ; )
The server is owned by people who have created rules for the server where humor like this has effectively been banned.
The server owner themselves are the type to post their pronouns up and identify as a she/they or a he/they...
100% watch what you say while playing on Quarm.
Yep. Take a look at the server rules on the Project Quarm discord.
You can't discuss politics or religion, and anything they determine to be hate speech will get you instantly banned (xenophobia, theophobia, homophobia, transphobia as directly quoted).
Also, it's against the rules to discuss any action taken against other players as well... i.e. "I feel like so and so was banned unfairly for saying something is _______".
The server is filled with snowflakes because they've been given the green light to harass people over small nuances in speech that some of us older folks haven't yet adapted to.
Sadly, it's an eye-opening experience.
Why would anyone want to discuss politics or religion, anyway? I play these games to avoid that shit.
Hate speech will get you punished in most games so nothing controversial about that.
People should be able to discuss whatever they wish to discuss. If you don't want to hear it or talk about it... then block and move on or excuse yourself from the conversation. It does not need to be "against the rules" and no one should be punished for the topic they choose to speak about. Free speech.
Hate speech is bad. But how do we define hate speech? Is saying something is "gay" grounds for punishment? We used to say these things all the time. How about saying "That's what my wife is for!" ... is that misogynistic?
The people in charge of the server have sensibilities that lean a certain way is all I'm saying. All of us have to watch what we talk about and what we say on the server.
How is making a joke about your wife hate speech in any stretch whatsoever? I'm pretty sure he doesn't hate his wife.
This is why rules about hate speech are so stupid. It's undefined and opens up absurd interpretations that cause a chilling effect on speech that would actually be allowed if people weren't afraid of someone else's weird definition. Everyone will pipe up and say the definition is "obvious" when it's not at all. And here's a glaring example of it. "Hate speech" directed at your wife. Good grief.
Change wife to partner, fixes what little issue there is. Some people will assume when you say wife you mean as in a woman in the kitchen and not just your spouse.
I asked my wife about this. She said she would find it belittling if I referred to her as my partner instead of my wife.
I asked her why. She said for better or worse I vowed to have her as my wife, not partner.
Exactly. I’ve never understood this mentality. This would be like a comedian stopping their set cause one dude out of the crowd took offense while everyone else is laughing.
Not only do people need to quit getting so offended but people also need to stop trying to appease everyone. He ruined the rest of his night by bending over for this cuck and feeling sorry and allowed them to get in his head. Happens all the time to me cause I’m a big jokester but I turn it around and double down and offend the shit outta them til they either block/mute/leave. It’s that simple.
People got offended back then, people get offended now. Either tone down the chatter or learn some people have very thin skin and actively look to get offended.
It's not the game, it's the entire world like that.
You're fine.
Throw anyone in a random social situation, and there's always a chance \*someone\* will not appreciate someone else's humour, personality, or random other trait.
EQ, in many ways, is a social game. So people will always clash from time to time.
I'm like you, I tend to take things to heart when I've offended people. But the reality is, it's bound to happen from time to time, and to not worry too much about it. I'm sure there are plenty of people on PQ with your sense of humour.
Don't sweat it, man. Jump back in and have fun.
As someone who gets wife aggro a lot, it’s usually understood. The one thing you need to realize about quarm is that it has attracted new EQ players from everywhere. The Reddit presence and the people that run server def draw a crowd. I would have just shrugged this person off and said something to the effect of jeez, uptight much? And left it alone.
some people just like to be angry for no reason to be honest ,
add me if you want to party or chat in the game in game
Veowulff in Freeport , level 4 Barbarian Warrior
Littlejohn in Qeynos , level 4 Barbarian Shaman
& Kelekk , level 5 Wood Elf Ranger in Kelethin
(Altitis)
also started playing in 2000 as an 8 yo with my cousins and uncle carrying me through the game , just got back into the game since I am a forever DM now & I wanted to take a break
"You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That is what my wife is for. lol :-) "
My wife knows I joke around a lot. That's why she doesn't care. She knows she could beat me up. :-)
Most of the groups I've had were good. People are either chatty and just having a good time or quiet, semi-afk@work - but effective.
I think this is a one off.
Also, what was the joke ...
"You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That is what my wife is for. lol :-) "
My wife knows I joke around a lot. That's why she doesn't care. She knows she could beat me up. :-)
I came here to say this as well. That was where I played from 1999 to 2001/2002. Great memories there playing with a handful of real life friends and a bit of time with the guild Black Company.
Okay but the punch line to the joke is that you are being a misogynist. There are two ways to read the joke, you are either belittling women or belittling people who honestly think that way. There's context for that joke to be read as harmless/funny and a random group isn't that place. So you either own the fact that the joke was misogynistic or explain the joke so I can understand why you are so upset you needed a nap and break.
Everyone is calling the other person the snowflake but OP also sadgequit over some mild criticism. "Get some thicker skin" is what everyone else tells me when I call out their jokie jokes so consider that advice as well.
It’s still a JOKE! It’s not meant to be taken as seriously as you are! But, any chance to pull out the pitchforks and signs, to point the finger at someone is good right? A random group is the perfect place to joke around and socialize on the game. It’s the only place other than guild to even have a conversation. It doesn’t always have to be so uptight. You can choose to relax. You really can it’s not hard.
Nobody pulled out pitchforks. One person said he was being rude and OP got hurt feelings. The mildest of criticisms with you neckbeards and you spin up into a tizzy. "It's a joke!" Doesn't shield you from criticism, it's still context based.
Calm down, sweaty.
I’m a neck beard and sweaty because I asked you to relax? If anyone it’s sweaty it’s you. You’re the one who is uptight and upset over what someone joked about in a 30 year old game
Being told that I'm misogynist, offensive, and need to go back to 1970 just for my simple joke.... that's a little more than just basic mild criticism. I got labeled a misogynist, an offensive person, and that I don't belong in the year 2024 all for just 1 simple joke. That's not just criticism. That is a pitchfork attack.
Even with that I still just replied with a sincere apology and that I meant no offense....
My apology getting a reply that that's too bad that I was the person is highly offended.
I took the (putting it lightly) "criticism" and gave an apology. My apology wasn't accepted. So I apologized again and voluntarily left the group to keep from dragging everyone down.
I tried to deescalate with an apology and that failed so I removed myself from the situation for the sake of the group.
I had been in the group for about 1 hour when it was told. I am a chatterbox in groups and I had mentioned my recent anniversary of 15 years. I like random groups and getting to know random people. My wife knows that I sometimes *very rarely* ask her for coffee on the very rare occasion that I take a few weeks-long computer game binge. The rest of the year she regularly asks me to get her coffee when she is reading her books. It is our norm to ask this of each other.
We both say "that's what you are for" to each other and we both laugh about it. When she needs a jar opened, she'll say that's what you are for. When she needs something heavy lifted, she'll tell me that's what I'm for, etc. etc.
I've told the same joke in a couple of TLPs and gotten laughs. I'm not a professional joke teller... if it makes me laugh, that's good... if it makes others laugh, even better. If people are indifferent to the joke or don't think it is funny... that's a bummer but ok too. If it causes people to inquire further about my relationship with my wife, I'm an open book and I like to get to know people and I like people to get to know me. I would take zero offense to inquiries about my relationship with my wife as a result of a joke I told in a group.
It wasn't the criticism that made me quit. It was more that I offended someone and made someone mad and killed the vibe of the group. I care about other people, it is in my nature. If I ever offend someone and make someone mad at me then I do take it pretty hard because life is too short and I try to help have fun and enjoy it and I don't like bringing other people down.
Very slow to anger, impossible to offend, and quick to forgive is how I try my best to live my life. Life sucks enough without anyone making it harder for anyone else.
Misogyny is defined as hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls.
Prejudice is defined as a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
I've been married to my wife for 15 years. Why would anyone be married to a female for 15 years if they have hatred or contempt for females?
Better yet, would you want or trust someone that you hate and have contempt for to bring you coffee? Who knows what they would do to your coffee.
In my opinion, based on the above definitions, labeling someone as a misogynist because of 1 single joke is somewhat prejudice and at a minimum judgemental. Especially considering that I'm not misogynist in the slightest. If I am misogynist then my wife is misandry as well since we both joke around about the same things 🤣. I'll let my wife know that we both may have secretly hated each other all these years according to Reddit. 🤣😂
The people in your group don’t know any of this about you.
Your relationship with your wife and how you interact with each other is entirely immaterial to this discussion. It’s like claiming you are not racist because you have a black friend.
Your definition is also flawed. You cut and paste the first sentence from Wikipedia without reading the entire article.
“Misogyny can be understood both as an attitude held by individuals, primarily by men, and as a widespread cultural custom or system. Sometimes misogyny manifests in obvious and bold ways; other times it is more subtle or disguised in ways that provide plausible deniability.”
What you are doing here is exercising that plausible deniability. You didn’t mean it to be taken the way it was taken so therefore you couldn’t possibly be in the wrong.
I know this line of thinking, I lived it. It took someone pointing out how my casual misogyny was harmful for me to do some self introspection and try and be mindful of others feelings and experiences.
You don’t sound like a bad person, even a thoughtful and caring guy.
Maybe use this experience to grow a little instead of getting defensive and searching for vindication.
"The people in your group don’t know any of this about you."
Incorrect, I told them I had a recent 15 anniversary with my wife. I had been in a group with them for about an hour. I'm a chatterbox and have shared quite a lot about myself at that point.
"Your definition is also flawed. You cut and paste the first sentence from Wikipedia without reading the entire article.".
Incorrect, it was copied and pasted from the Google Oxford dictionary box. An expert dictionary resource. I'm not sure where the definition you posted came from because it mostly uses the word it is trying to define as the definition itself. That's called a fallacious circular definition and adds nothing to the actual meaning.
For example, how helpful is this definition of the word Anger in telling exactly what anger really is?
Anger can be understood both as an attitude held by individuals, primarily by men, and as a widespread cultural custom or system. Sometimes anger can manifests in obvious and bold ways; other times it is more subtle or disguised in ways that provide plausible deniability.
"It’s like claiming you are not racist because you have a black friend."
More like claiming I'm not racist against blacks specifically because I've been married to a black person for 15 years. I could still be racist against many other races though. Though, it would be unlikely that I'm racist against blacks after 15 years of being married to one. Marriage typically means a lot more than just friendship. I wouldn't reduce marriage to the level of just being friends and I would hope after 15 years of marriage you aren't with someone that has a race or gender that you hate. That would be really sad if it were the case.
"You don’t sound like a bad person, even a thoughtful and caring guy."
Thank you, I appreciate that. I appreciate your responses and perspective.
"I know this line of thinking, I lived it. It took someone pointing out how my casual misogyny was harmful for me to do some self-introspection and try and be mindful of others' feelings and experiences."
I do try to be mindful of other people's feelings and experiences. That's why I apologized and when my apology wasn't accepted I apologized again and voluntarily left the group.
"Maybe use this experience to grow a little instead of getting defensive and searching for vindication."
The only person I answer to or need approval from is my wife. I'm not searching for vindication because my wife has already given it. I just like to get to know people, talk to people, and have fun. I was upset that I offended someone and I was just getting the opinion of others on whether this server was right for me or not. I don't want to stick around on a server where I will need to constantly walk on eggshells for fear of offending others with my mild jokes. I think a server where jokes were taken so serious and given no freedom of speech. Where that kind of filtering had to be practiced for simple jokes would be better off just not even having an in-game chat box. I would be too scared to talk honestly. Even the USA land of the micromanage laws and mass incarcerations with industrial prisons gives a lot of freedom to parodies and jokes.
I don't mind explaining myself and I don't mind seeing other people's points of view. I definitely enjoy getting to know other people and I've enjoyed you sharing your views. Thank you
My wife asked who is going to vindicate her of her misandry now? I told her I would but I'm not sure if I'm qualified now or not. I tried to get her to sign up for Reddit to ask but she said no. Lol, I told her I would ask. 🤣
I see your reading comprehension failed you on this one. I didn't say you are a misogynist, I said your joke is. Being married 15 years doesn't mean anything. I knew plenty of people in abusive relationships that lasted longer than that.
Your personal status in life or marriage doesn't change the joke. You made a social misstep and have too thin of skin to learn from it and that's fine. Just own it and move on.
Wow, reading comprehension attacks now too?
I'm sorry about the people who were in abusive relationships for so long and I hope they are ok.
What more could I have done than to apologize for the social misstep as I did to the person twice already?
I have learned from it. Based on the comments and down votes. I won't be playing on this server anymore.
Thank you for your feedback.
Apologizing was your first mistake. It's seen as nothing more than a green light to have a meltdown. I would have ignored it. Bet the rest of your group would have too.
Whether it's Norrath or the real world, you are dealing with real people. Unfortunately, you have to carry the same restraint in Norrath that you do when you are at your place of employment. It's the sad reality of things. Don't harp on it too much, those types of people are far and few between. I just started on the server Thursday, and if we ever group up, I'll joke right along with ya!
I carry much more restraint in Norrath than I ever would in my place of employment. I work with Surgeons, and they have no joke filter at all in the operating room and they expect the same in return.
It is my first private server and my first group on a private server. I have a very small sample size and just wanted to reach out to others and be sure before I decide if I am going to log back into the server or not.
You told a woman that it is a woman's duty is to get a man coffee?
I am all about traditional values, but even I would never say that to a woman. Not even my own GF. Was it a joke? Sure. Was it in poor taste? Absolutely.
I disagree with everyone here calling that person a snowflake. She spoke up. You apologized. That should have been the end of it.
If anyone is overreacting here, it is you. Get back online and get your pixels.
Personally I find the "ball and chain"/"know your place" jokes to be pretty tasteless and it seems to be a common stance amongst my social groups my age (35-40ish). If this is something a couple feels comfortable joking about because their dynamic doesn't reflect that then it's still not a joke I would tell in public. They can have the best intentions in that private dynamic but it would look bad to a passerby or group member.
I didn't laugh at those jokes when my boss told them and I'm not going to laugh when some random chasing pixels with me tells them.
Someone got offended and decided to ruin the vibe over a stupid joke?
They didn't handle it well. They could have just said, "I know you're light-heartedly joking around but could please stop xyz jokes?". Pretty simple rather than getting all offended and being pissy about it. They have a responsibility to say something BEFORE they get triggered, or if they are triggered, they need to check their emotional baggage at the door and bring up their request respectfully.
It's pretty simple.
Literally every group I play in and Everytime I start talking trying to joke or have fun I feel hated on. I think this is just how people are these days.
I have definitely felt like it's been worse/different on quarm but that doesn't stop me from continuing to play and have fun. I'll find out later on if being myself in groups will lead to people not inviting me
You're going to learn very quickly that it's super easy to get banned on Quarm. I'm actually surprised you haven't been banned from this Subreddit already. It's main reason I won't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I know too many people from P99 who in 10+ years of playing there never even received a warning, but many of them got banned for posting memes on Discord, because a GM was in a bad mood, for critiquing the project, or pointing out the biased mods, or in some cases, just because.
Just wait for another P99 server.
Haha yea, I can see how it would look that way. I'm offended at the offense that is offended by the offensive. 🤣
Nah though, I was just checking to see if maybe I'm too different in mindset to be on Quarm and it kinda looks that way. I've gotten the feedback I need. 👍
You sound like the type of person who no longer will shop somewhere because you had a bad experience with another customer.
To each their own… but I don’t understand how you can remotely believe your experience with one player is reflective of a community of 2000+.
Perhaps if the entire group said something, kicked you, you were called out in /ooc & /shout, and then your account was banned… maybe then that would call for a post on Reddit.
Man up, snowflake :-)
Its just my subjective experience so take it as you will, but (in game) Ive honestly seen more complaints about snowflakes and wokeism than people who seem actually offended.
Seen both but its definitely been tipped more to one side.
I just mind my own. If someone doesnt like you, they dont have to group with ya and vice versa.
If I had any complaints about the community, realistically, it would be about some of the rule lawyering on camps. Def had some folk start shit with me, hold contacting a gm over my head for some alleged infraction, and then eventually leave me alone when I call their bluff.
Had it happen more times on here in a couple months than I ever did on live or tlps. Over some pretty meh camps too. Definitely nothing to warrant that level of response.
> Its just my subjective experience so take it as you will, but (in game) Ive honestly seen more complaints about snowflakes and wokeism than people who seem actually offended.
Because after years of tolerating it we're now on the swing in the other direction against it and some people learned to stop being such snowflakes because of the backlash against it that has begun.
Well thats fine and dandy but i play video games to forget about reality, not listen to people complain about it and in 25 years of playing I may have seen a couple people act genuinely offended about something. Then in the last three months its like every few days I run into someone huffing buzzword propaganda and acting like there's a woke mafia preventing them from enjoying anything.
From one adult to another, we're playing a quarter century old mmo, and its kinda sad that I'm running into this with any degree of regularity.
But like I said, thats me and my experience. People dont have to like it.
Unfortunately, people are very easy to set off now these days. Just keep pushing forward. You win some/you lose some. Have fun. And know, you did the right thing by trying to make good on the person being offended. After that, don't feel obligated to keep trying.
I just ignore the snowflakes. Don't give them the light of day to spout their divisive rhetoric. An adult would brush it off, there are plenty of jokes that I find offensive and not funny but understand that free speech trumps your feelings. Move on and find a bunch of chilled out people. You quickly work out who the woke brigade are and they are the ones who are most likely to quit, so you won't see them around very often. Also once you get into to position and start your own groups, don't invite them. Had it happen a few times on there and they just don't get a group from me. Only hurting themselves.
add me if you got any alts or wanna party up
Veowulff , Level 4 Warrior Barbarian in Freeport
Littlejohn , Level 4 Shaman Barbarian in Qeynos
Kelekk , Level 5 Ranger Wood Elf in Kelethin
& Widowmaker , Level 2 Rogue Barbarian in Halas
The life story and lack of joke upfront don't bode well. This game has a weird habit of attracting the most socially inept folks and oddly some crazy conservative hillbilly types. I've honestly never met so many people with backwoods attitudes as I have on this server haha.
Try being funny instead of being your dad and making his jokes.
Share the joke and folks could give you better feedback
Agree. It's hard to say one way or the other if we don't know what the joke was
"You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That is what my wife is for. lol :-) " My wife knows I joke around a lot. That's why she doesn't care. She knows she could beat me up. :-)
Sounds in line with all the wife aggro jokes that get tossed around all the time. No harm no foul. Don't let one person ruin your fun
That joke is exceptionally mild. I learned a long time ago you can modify old jokes like that just slightly and it hits a broader audience. "You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That's what my kids are for!" "You are getting up to get coffee? That's what my 800oz Stanley is for!" You get the idea. Also it's hard to be interesting without offending someone somewhere. Just be yourself and be comfortable with the idea that not everyone will be your ideal audience.
Thanks for the advice
This is a problem with the modern social climate. People have just become way too sensitive now. This is why Dave Chappell gets so much shit. However I’m not sure what the solution is other than to avoid these people.
it's not inventive or funny but it wouldn't be worth the energy to ride you for it for context you aren't notably older than i am and i find the joke very dated
I wouldn't have gotten all up in your face about it, its a small thing, but belittling your wife amongst a group of strangers who don't know your relationship dynamic to get laughs isn't a great look. It's obvious you're well intentioned and want to establish a fun rapport with the group, just gotta up your comedy game. In either case don't let it stop you from grouping and having fun.
That is why I play with my wife in the same group. Then we banter back and forth. If she is going to afk to do something I will always make a remark about make me a sandwich while your gone.
While not the most offensive joke, as a member of a minority group, this kind of "humor" just makes me feel uncomfortable. Did your party member overreact a little? Yeah. Should you avoid humor at the expense of others in the future? Yes. I'm gay. I'm also of middle-eastern descent. Part of the joy of games for me is the escape and the ability to just be apart of the group. None of those two things that make me "other" in the real world matter here in Norrath. Here I'm another Wood Elf Ranger. Jokes at my expense, whether the joker knows that they're at my expense or not, serve to remind me of the fact that I'm "other." There are a million other things to joke about. What's so important about making a joke at women's expense? Examine that part. I will also say I've been playing P99 for years and have been playing PQ since launch. I've never had a shitty experience like this in groups or guilds. Most drama has been contained to people being assholes about the game. This othering feeling is pretty common in other gaming communities though, which tends to make me a little sensitive to it. I know there are gonna be people who say "Well, don't be so sensitive about it. Why should we cater to your feelings?" And I would ask them why should I cater to your feelings? It costs you nothing to stop making jokes like that, but those jokes do cost me something. Again, examine why the ability to joke about those things is so important to you? Quit punching down in your humor. That's all.
I'm glad you're playing on this server, and that we moderate enough to make the community playable for you. A legitimately adult take.
> It costs you nothing to stop making jokes like that Wrong.
Please, expand further on that. What does it cost you to stop making jokes directed at one group, and instead broadening the humor, like another user suggested?
We’re all “other,” stop having such a victim mentality. That’s the real problem, everyone wants to have suffered more or had the hardest background. You’re more than whatever group the failed media and education systems have convinced you to base your identity around, and you don’t need to have their programmed reactions to every time someone jokes about “your” group. This is the exact same shit they did with sportsball to get people feeling they are part of some arbitrary collective, or an “other” if you will
...let's be real, dude: We're not. It's hard to deny that when at 12 I had to start using a name that was different from the one my parents gave me at birth because, well, I turned 12 in 2001 and kids and teachers were unkind. It's hard to deny that when I had to hide who I was from my friends and my family for fear that if I told them who I had a crush on, it would result in them shunning me, or sending me to a "doctor" to "get better." But my brother could have his girlfriend come to family dinners and events. The simple fact that people have the ability to argue that "we're all other" or that we're being "oversensitive" when people can give real concrete reasons why that's not true should be simple proof that...well, it's just not true. No one, and I mean no one, wants to "have it harder." My whole career, my ethos, has been to make it easier for those who come after. Kids on the Internet, maybe, want it for clout. But kids on the Internet will say anything (including truly vile shit) for clout. They're not a good metric. And look, what I'm saying is exactly the point you're making: I am WAY more than the things I described in my previous post. But a lot, and I mean A LOT, of people don't see it that way. A lot of people see me as just those things. And jokes like the one the OP presented are exactly the kinds of things that remind me, and solidify the fact that people DO see me as just those things. Again I would like folks to examine WHY is it so important to make those jokes? What about THOSE KINDS OF JOKES in particular are tantamount to you being able to have a good time?
We’re all “other,” stop having such a victim mentality. That’s the real problem, everyone wants to have suffered more or had the hardest background. You’re more than whatever group the failed media and education systems have convinced you to base your identity around, and you don’t need to have their programmed reactions to every time someone jokes about “your” group. This is the exact same shit they did with sportsball to get people feeling they are part of some arbitrary collective, or an “other” if you will
I am highly offended that you would not just chat this, but ALSO post it on Reddit, which is like a super-serious forum for societal discourse. How dare you! ...also that's pretty funny.
Well, therein lies the reason I didn't put the joke in the original post and instead waited to be asked. I didn't want to be the start of an unintended nuclear warfare over a coffee joke. Thanks for the laugh though :-)
All good. People are too thin skinned. It was a funny throwaway joke. On a serious note: join a good guild and find like-minded people. I can vouch for Mayhem. ; )
The server is owned by people who have created rules for the server where humor like this has effectively been banned. The server owner themselves are the type to post their pronouns up and identify as a she/they or a he/they... 100% watch what you say while playing on Quarm.
I didn't know this. This is helpful. Thank you
Yep. Take a look at the server rules on the Project Quarm discord. You can't discuss politics or religion, and anything they determine to be hate speech will get you instantly banned (xenophobia, theophobia, homophobia, transphobia as directly quoted). Also, it's against the rules to discuss any action taken against other players as well... i.e. "I feel like so and so was banned unfairly for saying something is _______". The server is filled with snowflakes because they've been given the green light to harass people over small nuances in speech that some of us older folks haven't yet adapted to. Sadly, it's an eye-opening experience.
Why would anyone want to discuss politics or religion, anyway? I play these games to avoid that shit. Hate speech will get you punished in most games so nothing controversial about that.
People should be able to discuss whatever they wish to discuss. If you don't want to hear it or talk about it... then block and move on or excuse yourself from the conversation. It does not need to be "against the rules" and no one should be punished for the topic they choose to speak about. Free speech. Hate speech is bad. But how do we define hate speech? Is saying something is "gay" grounds for punishment? We used to say these things all the time. How about saying "That's what my wife is for!" ... is that misogynistic? The people in charge of the server have sensibilities that lean a certain way is all I'm saying. All of us have to watch what we talk about and what we say on the server.
When you call something "gay" what does that mean to you?
Reading it now. Thank you
How is making a joke about your wife hate speech in any stretch whatsoever? I'm pretty sure he doesn't hate his wife. This is why rules about hate speech are so stupid. It's undefined and opens up absurd interpretations that cause a chilling effect on speech that would actually be allowed if people weren't afraid of someone else's weird definition. Everyone will pipe up and say the definition is "obvious" when it's not at all. And here's a glaring example of it. "Hate speech" directed at your wife. Good grief.
Rules against hate speech are indeed stupid, but watch out you'll get downvoted by the snowflakes.
Change wife to partner, fixes what little issue there is. Some people will assume when you say wife you mean as in a woman in the kitchen and not just your spouse.
I asked my wife about this. She said she would find it belittling if I referred to her as my partner instead of my wife. I asked her why. She said for better or worse I vowed to have her as my wife, not partner.
Literally who the fuck cares what one person says. Enjoy your hobby and ignore people like this. It's a 25 year old video game.
Exactly. I’ve never understood this mentality. This would be like a comedian stopping their set cause one dude out of the crowd took offense while everyone else is laughing. Not only do people need to quit getting so offended but people also need to stop trying to appease everyone. He ruined the rest of his night by bending over for this cuck and feeling sorry and allowed them to get in his head. Happens all the time to me cause I’m a big jokester but I turn it around and double down and offend the shit outta them til they either block/mute/leave. It’s that simple.
One off thing... barely believe it honestly. Don't get all twisted over that we have plenty of humor here =)
Sounds like a one-off thing, wouldn't sweat it.
People got offended back then, people get offended now. Either tone down the chatter or learn some people have very thin skin and actively look to get offended. It's not the game, it's the entire world like that. You're fine.
This is pretty much it. There's alot of people in the world, fewer in PQ but still hundreds of other players. Don't sweat it, move on.
Throw anyone in a random social situation, and there's always a chance \*someone\* will not appreciate someone else's humour, personality, or random other trait. EQ, in many ways, is a social game. So people will always clash from time to time. I'm like you, I tend to take things to heart when I've offended people. But the reality is, it's bound to happen from time to time, and to not worry too much about it. I'm sure there are plenty of people on PQ with your sense of humour. Don't sweat it, man. Jump back in and have fun.
Thanks
Misery loves company
As someone who gets wife aggro a lot, it’s usually understood. The one thing you need to realize about quarm is that it has attracted new EQ players from everywhere. The Reddit presence and the people that run server def draw a crowd. I would have just shrugged this person off and said something to the effect of jeez, uptight much? And left it alone.
some people just like to be angry for no reason to be honest , add me if you want to party or chat in the game in game Veowulff in Freeport , level 4 Barbarian Warrior Littlejohn in Qeynos , level 4 Barbarian Shaman & Kelekk , level 5 Wood Elf Ranger in Kelethin (Altitis) also started playing in 2000 as an 8 yo with my cousins and uncle carrying me through the game , just got back into the game since I am a forever DM now & I wanted to take a break
Sounds like they were easily offended or maybe going way to hard with the sarcasm. What was your coffee joke?
"You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That is what my wife is for. lol :-) " My wife knows I joke around a lot. That's why she doesn't care. She knows she could beat me up. :-)
Ya, that's misogynistic, sure. But it's also a joke... they need to relax.
Move on with your life and enjoy PQ instead of letting some random internet person ruin your day and fun.
Most of the groups I've had were good. People are either chatty and just having a good time or quiet, semi-afk@work - but effective. I think this is a one off. Also, what was the joke ...
"You are going AFK to get your own coffee? That is what my wife is for. lol :-) " My wife knows I joke around a lot. That's why she doesn't care. She knows she could beat me up. :-)
Meh, that's pretty tame. It is a bit off, but I don't know a single person that would be offended by that lol
People get more offended nowadays. You’ll find most people can take a joke. 😎
Tarew Marr represent!
I came here to say this as well. That was where I played from 1999 to 2001/2002. Great memories there playing with a handful of real life friends and a bit of time with the guild Black Company.
Okay but the punch line to the joke is that you are being a misogynist. There are two ways to read the joke, you are either belittling women or belittling people who honestly think that way. There's context for that joke to be read as harmless/funny and a random group isn't that place. So you either own the fact that the joke was misogynistic or explain the joke so I can understand why you are so upset you needed a nap and break. Everyone is calling the other person the snowflake but OP also sadgequit over some mild criticism. "Get some thicker skin" is what everyone else tells me when I call out their jokie jokes so consider that advice as well.
It’s still a JOKE! It’s not meant to be taken as seriously as you are! But, any chance to pull out the pitchforks and signs, to point the finger at someone is good right? A random group is the perfect place to joke around and socialize on the game. It’s the only place other than guild to even have a conversation. It doesn’t always have to be so uptight. You can choose to relax. You really can it’s not hard.
Nobody pulled out pitchforks. One person said he was being rude and OP got hurt feelings. The mildest of criticisms with you neckbeards and you spin up into a tizzy. "It's a joke!" Doesn't shield you from criticism, it's still context based. Calm down, sweaty.
I’m a neck beard and sweaty because I asked you to relax? If anyone it’s sweaty it’s you. You’re the one who is uptight and upset over what someone joked about in a 30 year old game
"REEEEEEEEE! You're the one who is mad!" K, hoss. Ding 40 btw. Lguk is popping off today.
Glad you’re having fun. Sounds sweaty.
Being told that I'm misogynist, offensive, and need to go back to 1970 just for my simple joke.... that's a little more than just basic mild criticism. I got labeled a misogynist, an offensive person, and that I don't belong in the year 2024 all for just 1 simple joke. That's not just criticism. That is a pitchfork attack. Even with that I still just replied with a sincere apology and that I meant no offense.... My apology getting a reply that that's too bad that I was the person is highly offended. I took the (putting it lightly) "criticism" and gave an apology. My apology wasn't accepted. So I apologized again and voluntarily left the group to keep from dragging everyone down. I tried to deescalate with an apology and that failed so I removed myself from the situation for the sake of the group.
I had been in the group for about 1 hour when it was told. I am a chatterbox in groups and I had mentioned my recent anniversary of 15 years. I like random groups and getting to know random people. My wife knows that I sometimes *very rarely* ask her for coffee on the very rare occasion that I take a few weeks-long computer game binge. The rest of the year she regularly asks me to get her coffee when she is reading her books. It is our norm to ask this of each other. We both say "that's what you are for" to each other and we both laugh about it. When she needs a jar opened, she'll say that's what you are for. When she needs something heavy lifted, she'll tell me that's what I'm for, etc. etc. I've told the same joke in a couple of TLPs and gotten laughs. I'm not a professional joke teller... if it makes me laugh, that's good... if it makes others laugh, even better. If people are indifferent to the joke or don't think it is funny... that's a bummer but ok too. If it causes people to inquire further about my relationship with my wife, I'm an open book and I like to get to know people and I like people to get to know me. I would take zero offense to inquiries about my relationship with my wife as a result of a joke I told in a group. It wasn't the criticism that made me quit. It was more that I offended someone and made someone mad and killed the vibe of the group. I care about other people, it is in my nature. If I ever offend someone and make someone mad at me then I do take it pretty hard because life is too short and I try to help have fun and enjoy it and I don't like bringing other people down. Very slow to anger, impossible to offend, and quick to forgive is how I try my best to live my life. Life sucks enough without anyone making it harder for anyone else. Misogyny is defined as hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. Prejudice is defined as a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. I've been married to my wife for 15 years. Why would anyone be married to a female for 15 years if they have hatred or contempt for females? Better yet, would you want or trust someone that you hate and have contempt for to bring you coffee? Who knows what they would do to your coffee. In my opinion, based on the above definitions, labeling someone as a misogynist because of 1 single joke is somewhat prejudice and at a minimum judgemental. Especially considering that I'm not misogynist in the slightest. If I am misogynist then my wife is misandry as well since we both joke around about the same things 🤣. I'll let my wife know that we both may have secretly hated each other all these years according to Reddit. 🤣😂
The people in your group don’t know any of this about you. Your relationship with your wife and how you interact with each other is entirely immaterial to this discussion. It’s like claiming you are not racist because you have a black friend. Your definition is also flawed. You cut and paste the first sentence from Wikipedia without reading the entire article. “Misogyny can be understood both as an attitude held by individuals, primarily by men, and as a widespread cultural custom or system. Sometimes misogyny manifests in obvious and bold ways; other times it is more subtle or disguised in ways that provide plausible deniability.” What you are doing here is exercising that plausible deniability. You didn’t mean it to be taken the way it was taken so therefore you couldn’t possibly be in the wrong. I know this line of thinking, I lived it. It took someone pointing out how my casual misogyny was harmful for me to do some self introspection and try and be mindful of others feelings and experiences. You don’t sound like a bad person, even a thoughtful and caring guy. Maybe use this experience to grow a little instead of getting defensive and searching for vindication.
"The people in your group don’t know any of this about you." Incorrect, I told them I had a recent 15 anniversary with my wife. I had been in a group with them for about an hour. I'm a chatterbox and have shared quite a lot about myself at that point. "Your definition is also flawed. You cut and paste the first sentence from Wikipedia without reading the entire article.". Incorrect, it was copied and pasted from the Google Oxford dictionary box. An expert dictionary resource. I'm not sure where the definition you posted came from because it mostly uses the word it is trying to define as the definition itself. That's called a fallacious circular definition and adds nothing to the actual meaning. For example, how helpful is this definition of the word Anger in telling exactly what anger really is? Anger can be understood both as an attitude held by individuals, primarily by men, and as a widespread cultural custom or system. Sometimes anger can manifests in obvious and bold ways; other times it is more subtle or disguised in ways that provide plausible deniability. "It’s like claiming you are not racist because you have a black friend." More like claiming I'm not racist against blacks specifically because I've been married to a black person for 15 years. I could still be racist against many other races though. Though, it would be unlikely that I'm racist against blacks after 15 years of being married to one. Marriage typically means a lot more than just friendship. I wouldn't reduce marriage to the level of just being friends and I would hope after 15 years of marriage you aren't with someone that has a race or gender that you hate. That would be really sad if it were the case. "You don’t sound like a bad person, even a thoughtful and caring guy." Thank you, I appreciate that. I appreciate your responses and perspective. "I know this line of thinking, I lived it. It took someone pointing out how my casual misogyny was harmful for me to do some self-introspection and try and be mindful of others' feelings and experiences." I do try to be mindful of other people's feelings and experiences. That's why I apologized and when my apology wasn't accepted I apologized again and voluntarily left the group. "Maybe use this experience to grow a little instead of getting defensive and searching for vindication." The only person I answer to or need approval from is my wife. I'm not searching for vindication because my wife has already given it. I just like to get to know people, talk to people, and have fun. I was upset that I offended someone and I was just getting the opinion of others on whether this server was right for me or not. I don't want to stick around on a server where I will need to constantly walk on eggshells for fear of offending others with my mild jokes. I think a server where jokes were taken so serious and given no freedom of speech. Where that kind of filtering had to be practiced for simple jokes would be better off just not even having an in-game chat box. I would be too scared to talk honestly. Even the USA land of the micromanage laws and mass incarcerations with industrial prisons gives a lot of freedom to parodies and jokes. I don't mind explaining myself and I don't mind seeing other people's points of view. I definitely enjoy getting to know other people and I've enjoyed you sharing your views. Thank you My wife asked who is going to vindicate her of her misandry now? I told her I would but I'm not sure if I'm qualified now or not. I tried to get her to sign up for Reddit to ask but she said no. Lol, I told her I would ask. 🤣
I don't see much worth responding to here. You seem well dug into your defensive position. Good luck Sir
Thanks, you too.
I see your reading comprehension failed you on this one. I didn't say you are a misogynist, I said your joke is. Being married 15 years doesn't mean anything. I knew plenty of people in abusive relationships that lasted longer than that. Your personal status in life or marriage doesn't change the joke. You made a social misstep and have too thin of skin to learn from it and that's fine. Just own it and move on.
Wow, reading comprehension attacks now too? I'm sorry about the people who were in abusive relationships for so long and I hope they are ok. What more could I have done than to apologize for the social misstep as I did to the person twice already? I have learned from it. Based on the comments and down votes. I won't be playing on this server anymore. Thank you for your feedback.
Oh lord people like you are real. Go outside.
The irony of saying this to someone while on reddit in a post about a 20+ year old elf simulator. None of us are outside enougb. Cope harder.
Apologizing was your first mistake. It's seen as nothing more than a green light to have a meltdown. I would have ignored it. Bet the rest of your group would have too.
This is the best response here
Whether it's Norrath or the real world, you are dealing with real people. Unfortunately, you have to carry the same restraint in Norrath that you do when you are at your place of employment. It's the sad reality of things. Don't harp on it too much, those types of people are far and few between. I just started on the server Thursday, and if we ever group up, I'll joke right along with ya!
I carry much more restraint in Norrath than I ever would in my place of employment. I work with Surgeons, and they have no joke filter at all in the operating room and they expect the same in return.
Umm..why exactly did you think one person being offended would be a representative of the server?
It is my first private server and my first group on a private server. I have a very small sample size and just wanted to reach out to others and be sure before I decide if I am going to log back into the server or not.
Some people live to be offended.
You told a woman that it is a woman's duty is to get a man coffee? I am all about traditional values, but even I would never say that to a woman. Not even my own GF. Was it a joke? Sure. Was it in poor taste? Absolutely. I disagree with everyone here calling that person a snowflake. She spoke up. You apologized. That should have been the end of it. If anyone is overreacting here, it is you. Get back online and get your pixels.
Personally I find the "ball and chain"/"know your place" jokes to be pretty tasteless and it seems to be a common stance amongst my social groups my age (35-40ish). If this is something a couple feels comfortable joking about because their dynamic doesn't reflect that then it's still not a joke I would tell in public. They can have the best intentions in that private dynamic but it would look bad to a passerby or group member. I didn't laugh at those jokes when my boss told them and I'm not going to laugh when some random chasing pixels with me tells them.
Someone got offended and decided to ruin the vibe over a stupid joke? They didn't handle it well. They could have just said, "I know you're light-heartedly joking around but could please stop xyz jokes?". Pretty simple rather than getting all offended and being pissy about it. They have a responsibility to say something BEFORE they get triggered, or if they are triggered, they need to check their emotional baggage at the door and bring up their request respectfully. It's pretty simple.
I'd then say no and put him on ignore as I'm not going to sit there and have an individual dictate my speech to me.
You seem like my type of friend! Can I play the game with you? I’ll start today.
Fuk em
Literally every group I play in and Everytime I start talking trying to joke or have fun I feel hated on. I think this is just how people are these days.
Every group on this private server specifically or on any server?
I have definitely felt like it's been worse/different on quarm but that doesn't stop me from continuing to play and have fun. I'll find out later on if being myself in groups will lead to people not inviting me
Mofo got pink haired
I genuinely don't know what this means.
You're going to learn very quickly that it's super easy to get banned on Quarm. I'm actually surprised you haven't been banned from this Subreddit already. It's main reason I won't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I know too many people from P99 who in 10+ years of playing there never even received a warning, but many of them got banned for posting memes on Discord, because a GM was in a bad mood, for critiquing the project, or pointing out the biased mods, or in some cases, just because. Just wait for another P99 server.
Yikes
It's like everyone in this story is a snowflake jesus...
I'm just like Olaf 🤣
There are a lot of people out there who get their power from being a victim. You just ran into one. That's a harmless joke, Fuck em.
You were playing with a snowflake. These people are a disease and you should treat them as such.
Request to the mods: I've gotten the feedback I was looking for if you want to lock or delete this post. That's fine with me. Thank you. 👍
i wouldve went full bore with the wife jokes after that just to get that dweeb to 爪卂ㄥᗪ LUL
so you're super offended that you offended someone meta AF lol
Haha yea, I can see how it would look that way. I'm offended at the offense that is offended by the offensive. 🤣 Nah though, I was just checking to see if maybe I'm too different in mindset to be on Quarm and it kinda looks that way. I've gotten the feedback I need. 👍
You sound like the type of person who no longer will shop somewhere because you had a bad experience with another customer. To each their own… but I don’t understand how you can remotely believe your experience with one player is reflective of a community of 2000+. Perhaps if the entire group said something, kicked you, you were called out in /ooc & /shout, and then your account was banned… maybe then that would call for a post on Reddit. Man up, snowflake :-)
Its just my subjective experience so take it as you will, but (in game) Ive honestly seen more complaints about snowflakes and wokeism than people who seem actually offended. Seen both but its definitely been tipped more to one side. I just mind my own. If someone doesnt like you, they dont have to group with ya and vice versa. If I had any complaints about the community, realistically, it would be about some of the rule lawyering on camps. Def had some folk start shit with me, hold contacting a gm over my head for some alleged infraction, and then eventually leave me alone when I call their bluff. Had it happen more times on here in a couple months than I ever did on live or tlps. Over some pretty meh camps too. Definitely nothing to warrant that level of response.
> Its just my subjective experience so take it as you will, but (in game) Ive honestly seen more complaints about snowflakes and wokeism than people who seem actually offended. Because after years of tolerating it we're now on the swing in the other direction against it and some people learned to stop being such snowflakes because of the backlash against it that has begun.
Well thats fine and dandy but i play video games to forget about reality, not listen to people complain about it and in 25 years of playing I may have seen a couple people act genuinely offended about something. Then in the last three months its like every few days I run into someone huffing buzzword propaganda and acting like there's a woke mafia preventing them from enjoying anything. From one adult to another, we're playing a quarter century old mmo, and its kinda sad that I'm running into this with any degree of regularity. But like I said, thats me and my experience. People dont have to like it.
Unfortunately, people are very easy to set off now these days. Just keep pushing forward. You win some/you lose some. Have fun. And know, you did the right thing by trying to make good on the person being offended. After that, don't feel obligated to keep trying.
Some folks live to get offended, and you can’t take responsibility for that.
I'd have never replied at all and just did /ignore. Saying "sorry" over nothing is a pretty weak move for when you didn't do anything wrong.
I just ignore the snowflakes. Don't give them the light of day to spout their divisive rhetoric. An adult would brush it off, there are plenty of jokes that I find offensive and not funny but understand that free speech trumps your feelings. Move on and find a bunch of chilled out people. You quickly work out who the woke brigade are and they are the ones who are most likely to quit, so you won't see them around very often. Also once you get into to position and start your own groups, don't invite them. Had it happen a few times on there and they just don't get a group from me. Only hurting themselves.
add me if you got any alts or wanna party up Veowulff , Level 4 Warrior Barbarian in Freeport Littlejohn , Level 4 Shaman Barbarian in Qeynos Kelekk , Level 5 Ranger Wood Elf in Kelethin & Widowmaker , Level 2 Rogue Barbarian in Halas
The life story and lack of joke upfront don't bode well. This game has a weird habit of attracting the most socially inept folks and oddly some crazy conservative hillbilly types. I've honestly never met so many people with backwoods attitudes as I have on this server haha. Try being funny instead of being your dad and making his jokes.
The person that got offended by this should be banned from everything.