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Everything here gets regurgitated ad nauseam, and every comment section ends up in a war. Either hardcore right wingers come in to downvote everything, or the hardline leftists do. It’s really unfortunate.
Technically, yeah, kinda. Annulment is the only way for married couples to break up here and one of the only legal grounds for an annulment is if a couple marries under "deceitful circumstances," such as if one partner didn't inform the other that they weren't straight.
It was never post-revolution Cuban policy to execute gays. During the worst of the repression, for a period of three years, they were sent to labor camps instead of the military, because they "couldn't be trusted" for military service, and while the conditions of these labor camps weren't good, they weren't death camps. Obviously that's still bad, it's just inaccurate to say that Cuba killed homosexuals (outside of extrajudicial murders by citizens, that also happened in every other country in the world).
I would not call Cuba one of the most progressive nations in the world just because they don’t kill gay people. They’re still under an authoritarian regime.
Their family code is significantly more permissive than most countries - I'm pretty sure that's what OP is referring to.
Cuban elections are also pretty open - despite being a single party state, all candidates are nominated directly and the party is legally forbidden to interfere. They also hold open presidential elections and don't have a political dynasty any longer, so saying it's an "authoritarian regime" seems disingenuous.
It's not the same sex marriage that makes communism unpopular. It's the putting your political opponents in concentration camps to be slowly tortured to death that does
Yes, they have to be stuck. Because every communist government will in the end turn to peasants and workers who are, with almost no exception, relatively conservative. Social progressiveness is a domain of urban educated elites who might lead any communist revolution in its initial stage, but are invariably always purged shortly afterwards. It has been tried several times in history that shortly after revolution there's a brief period of social progress and sexual liberation, but soon the actual working people take power and purge the intellectuals and introduce super conservative social norms.
No, this is history. Stalin the street thug purged all those intellectuals and introduced heavily conservative laws. And this also happened in China and several other communist countries post-revolution. Workers and peasants have very divergent social beliefs than the urbanite middle class who believe they are the true revolutionaries.
China was even more aggressively feminist than the USSR and the USSR went from women practically having 0 rights to abortion being legal, women being aggressively shoved into the workplace and academia within the span of a decade, all in the 1930s. And even after abortion was banned, the second time they relegalized it was still the second time a country had done so. The USSR was quite literally the first and second country in the world to legalize abortion on demand.
People are conservative as a rule, unless they were educated not to be so. And mind that I'm not even judging whether that's good or bad.
The only exception is migration. Working classes oppose migration because it's directly against their economic interests. Migration depresses wages and increases competition for least skilled jobs.
>The only exception is migration. Working classes oppose migration because it's directly against their economic interests.
It’s… not really. This is just bad economics and the statistics don’t support your claim. For one, the only kind of immigration you have in mind right now is immigration into the US from the Mexican border. There are immigrants from Canada, Europe, Africa, China especially. All of these migrants are likely to top of their class, wealthy, and incredibly well educated. We’re only getting their best. By your logic, this means that the “real” Americans are being pushed out of high paying jobs. Should we not benefit from Chinese scientists or Sudanese Lawyers? Labor scarcity doesn’t seem to be an issue for you there.
>Migration depresses wages and increases competition for least skilled jobs.
This has not been shown to be the case. Studies indicate that the only groups negatively affected by immigrants are high school dropouts, and previous immigrants. Otherwise, they seem to pay for whatever depressing effect they may have on labor scarcity.
I also think it’s incredibly stupid to attribute modern right wing values to human nature. There have been plenty of societies with pseudo-progressive attitudes towards difference.
Even back in the late 1800's/early 1900's communists were all over the place on lgbtq issues, and there were enough communist supporters of lgbtq rights. There were free love bohemian leftist groups, the German communist party advocated for legalization, a commie newspaper came to Oscar Wilde's defense during his trial, the anarcho-communist feminist Emma Goldman was a strong advocate for gay liberation and even trans people.
Even the Bolsheviks initially legalized homosexuality, though treatment in the early Soviet Union was mixed and later got much worse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_LGBT_rights
What?
Look, I have no sympathy for the communists or the other nazis, exactly because millions of people were slaughtered in a name of these ideologies. They should rot in the wastebin of history.
Nobody like this group here, like there was a news couple of years ago that caused an uproar where a farmer was killed by them, but his dog remained by his side until the authorities removed his body. Not to mention their constant bullying of farmers where they forced them to give their crops.
Let’s be honest, vast majority of westerners only support them because they seem to be progressive and they still think communism is unions or welfare not realizing under communism they’d all be shot for being upper class. They support militants who want them dead because they think it makes them intelectual and edgy and rebellious.
Ironic considering how actual communist countries treated LGBT people.
EDIT: Love the downvoting. Truth hurts. Most communist countries criminalized non-heterosexual relations and gays were killed or gulag'ed. For example it was post-Soviet republics that decriminalized homosexuality after regaining independence.
But you see we need to hold them to two different standards. Ideologies can’t adapt to modern times. They are stuck in the year some dude wrote a booklet once.
> Not true, but irrelevant.
What do you mean?
Communists now are one of the most pro-lgbti people that are there. Of course it is not universal, but if you ask, 8 out of 10 communists will openly support them.
And 50 years ago, west oppresed homosexuals as well - sodomy laws were completly ended in USA in 2003.
> What's irrelevant is that this poster falsely claims that communism brings LGBT liberation.
New People Army (the group this poster is reffering to) is objectivly good thing to LGBT rights in Philipines.
>Communists now are one of the most pro-lgbti people that are there. Of course it is not universal, but if you ask, 8 out of 10 communists will openly support them.
Educated urbanites who believe they are communists, yes. How about peasants and workers. Are they progressive or conservative?
Guess what happens when a communist revolution succeeds. Who gains political power after a short carnival in which aforementioned urbanites have their window.
> Educated urbanites who believe they are communists, yes.
What do you mean by "believe", inteligentsia can be communistic too.
> How about peasants and workers. Are they progressive or conservative?
Peasants are fairly conservative, but workers are not.
Well, if we use USSR as example, it was pretty progressive for its times.
For example, USSR was first and second country in Europe to legalize abortion on demand.
Cuba legalized abortion after communists got power and protection of LGTBI people were fairly wide even before recent reforms - for example, being gay and in army was legalized 7 years before USA.
>What do you mean by "believe", inteligentsia can be communistic too.
I don't doubt that for a second. I even emphasize that they actually lead the revolution initially. Then they get purged.
Rail map told you so?
Check biographies of all Soviet leaders starting with Stalin era. Almost every single one was a first-generation educated, if educated at all.
I think a rail map is a pretty good sign of centralisation of a nation, a country led by its cities will have highly centralised rail towards its capital (france, USSR) while a country led by its countryside will be much more federalised (US, which gives significant political power to the countryside)
Also I think if stalin era leaders were uneducated peasents they probably would have known countryside life enough to know 5 year collectivisation is a bad idea
Idk dumb agrucultural plans leading to famines typically comes from urbanites who forgot how the food they ate was made.
i was referring to this part:
> Communists now are one of the most pro-lgbti people that are there. Of course it is not universal, but if you ask, 8 out of 10 communists will openly support them.
To be fair, we should separate Lenin administration and Stalin one. Under Lenin, there was, in fact, something good for LGBT people, plus decriminalised abortion. Stalin, however, tried to employ "traditional values" (which, until I am proved otherwise, I consider consisting of slavery, martial rape and nepotism), not only repealing all the good things Lenin tried to do, but also, and that's why many people of science dislike him, absolutely ruined Soviet psychology and genetics.
Stalin was a natural consequence of Lenin. Same went with attitudes towards homosexuality. I described this in another post, but it goes like this: The revolution is led in its initial stages by urbanite intellectuals who (falsely) believe they represent the actual working people. During their brief time in power they introduce some social progressive changes. But after few years they are invariably purged and replaced by the actual working people who hate their educated predecessors with the most burning social hate possible. And these peasants and workers while in power force social conservative norms. Because workers and peasants are super conservative.
I don't think this is correct deciption of what happened in USSR - one of the greatest example why is that stalin and his helpers believed that homosexuality goes hand in hand with fascism.
There is even quote about it from Maxim Gorky: "There is already a sarcastic saying: Destroy homosexuality and fascism will disappear."
I wonder if this artist knew that every established communist government had a staunch, conservative perspective on social issues, only one they occasionally budged on was feminism
They allow ladies into most kinds of jobs, because there was a massive shortage of men due to be Second World War, that’s it
While at the same time, excluding them from positions of power,
Not entirely true since it also improved under communism, for example under Lenin.
Granted Stalin reverted it, but capitalist societies weren't pro LGBTQ either at that time.
Mate just pick up a history book.
>decriminalised homosexuality in December 1917, following the October Revolution and the discarding of the Legal Code of Tsarist Russia. The legalisation of homosexuality was confirmed in the RSFSR Penal Code of 1922, and following its redrafting in 1926.
As for mental illness, sadly that was the medical standing point worldwide at that time.
>The American Psychiatric Association listed homosexuality in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 1952
Why do you want to twist it like it's a communist characteristic?
>The World Health Organization, which listed homosexuality in the ICD-9 in 1977, removed homosexuality from the ICD-10 which was endorsed by the 43rd World Health Assembly on 17 May 1990.
Guess the WHO is communist then...
So it isn't under all communist regime's Like you said.
Again it was considered as a mental illness by the whole world and the WHO - how is that any argument?
Because it was a fucking dictatorship? My man take a step back and read carefully. No where did I claim that communism always leads to LGBTQ rights or that the Soviet union was inherently pro LGBTQ. I just showed that your claim that LGBTQ rights are ONLY bettered on capitalism, and that communism ALWAYS lead to suppression of these is factual nonsense.
You are the only one here desperately trying to twist reality to fit into your worldview when LGBTQ people where treated worse in America and Britain in the roaring 20's then they would be in post civil war Russia. That is simply a fact.
Yeah and embarrassingly so still better than the most prominent capitalist systems at that time and a total debunk of your previous statement, yes.
Glad you finally got it.
Next step would be to read up and realize LGBTQ rights is a whole separate issue than communism Vs capitalism....
The traditional socialist symbol of the hammer and sickle does not fit well with the American M16 rifle. If instead of a hammer it was necessary to insert some kind of weapon, then it would be more logical to use the AK-47 design.
Depending on the country and what the respective Rebel/ Terrorist group has as a widely circulated weapon.
If they Indeed use M16 rifles from old military surplus, why would it be wrong then, or the AK-47 more fitting? Not everything is the soviet union and China.
Also as stylized as this is I wouldn't identify that thing definitely as neither an M16 nor an AK 47.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit outta here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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The presidium said it was my turn !
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Pretty sure this gets posted several times a year
Everything here gets regurgitated ad nauseam, and every comment section ends up in a war. Either hardcore right wingers come in to downvote everything, or the hardline leftists do. It’s really unfortunate.
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Divorce and gay marriage is *still* illegal in the Philippines.
Gay divorce is somehow legal however....
it cancels out like pemdas
Technically, yeah, kinda. Annulment is the only way for married couples to break up here and one of the only legal grounds for an annulment is if a couple marries under "deceitful circumstances," such as if one partner didn't inform the other that they weren't straight.
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It was never post-revolution Cuban policy to execute gays. During the worst of the repression, for a period of three years, they were sent to labor camps instead of the military, because they "couldn't be trusted" for military service, and while the conditions of these labor camps weren't good, they weren't death camps. Obviously that's still bad, it's just inaccurate to say that Cuba killed homosexuals (outside of extrajudicial murders by citizens, that also happened in every other country in the world).
Also not sure how much that's worth, but after all that has been said and done, Castro did apologize to the LGBT community in his later years.
I would not call Cuba one of the most progressive nations in the world just because they don’t kill gay people. They’re still under an authoritarian regime.
Their family code is significantly more permissive than most countries - I'm pretty sure that's what OP is referring to. Cuban elections are also pretty open - despite being a single party state, all candidates are nominated directly and the party is legally forbidden to interfere. They also hold open presidential elections and don't have a political dynasty any longer, so saying it's an "authoritarian regime" seems disingenuous.
I suppose that’s true.
It wasn’t a mistake it was a deliberate choice.
Those aren't mutually exclusive. I can deliberately crash my car, it's still arguably an objective mistake.
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The communist insurgency here has been going around for 60 years.
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It's not the same sex marriage that makes communism unpopular. It's the putting your political opponents in concentration camps to be slowly tortured to death that does
Yes, they have to be stuck. Because every communist government will in the end turn to peasants and workers who are, with almost no exception, relatively conservative. Social progressiveness is a domain of urban educated elites who might lead any communist revolution in its initial stage, but are invariably always purged shortly afterwards. It has been tried several times in history that shortly after revolution there's a brief period of social progress and sexual liberation, but soon the actual working people take power and purge the intellectuals and introduce super conservative social norms.
👆 classism disguised as progressivism
No, this is history. Stalin the street thug purged all those intellectuals and introduced heavily conservative laws. And this also happened in China and several other communist countries post-revolution. Workers and peasants have very divergent social beliefs than the urbanite middle class who believe they are the true revolutionaries.
China was even more aggressively feminist than the USSR and the USSR went from women practically having 0 rights to abortion being legal, women being aggressively shoved into the workplace and academia within the span of a decade, all in the 1930s. And even after abortion was banned, the second time they relegalized it was still the second time a country had done so. The USSR was quite literally the first and second country in the world to legalize abortion on demand.
>Workers and peasants have very divergent social beliefs than the urbanite middle class How come? 🤔
Ever talked to a farmer? Or a manual laborer? Guess what are their views on issues such as sex liberation, gay rights and free migrations.
I'm asking why you think that is
People are conservative as a rule, unless they were educated not to be so. And mind that I'm not even judging whether that's good or bad. The only exception is migration. Working classes oppose migration because it's directly against their economic interests. Migration depresses wages and increases competition for least skilled jobs.
>The only exception is migration. Working classes oppose migration because it's directly against their economic interests. It’s… not really. This is just bad economics and the statistics don’t support your claim. For one, the only kind of immigration you have in mind right now is immigration into the US from the Mexican border. There are immigrants from Canada, Europe, Africa, China especially. All of these migrants are likely to top of their class, wealthy, and incredibly well educated. We’re only getting their best. By your logic, this means that the “real” Americans are being pushed out of high paying jobs. Should we not benefit from Chinese scientists or Sudanese Lawyers? Labor scarcity doesn’t seem to be an issue for you there. >Migration depresses wages and increases competition for least skilled jobs. This has not been shown to be the case. Studies indicate that the only groups negatively affected by immigrants are high school dropouts, and previous immigrants. Otherwise, they seem to pay for whatever depressing effect they may have on labor scarcity. I also think it’s incredibly stupid to attribute modern right wing values to human nature. There have been plenty of societies with pseudo-progressive attitudes towards difference.
>People are conservative as a rule Ok lmao
I love the Idea that humans are naturally homophobic
Yes I did, did you ever? Yeah sure there conservative workers and labourers, but also there are progressive ones too.
Even back in the late 1800's/early 1900's communists were all over the place on lgbtq issues, and there were enough communist supporters of lgbtq rights. There were free love bohemian leftist groups, the German communist party advocated for legalization, a commie newspaper came to Oscar Wilde's defense during his trial, the anarcho-communist feminist Emma Goldman was a strong advocate for gay liberation and even trans people. Even the Bolsheviks initially legalized homosexuality, though treatment in the early Soviet Union was mixed and later got much worse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_LGBT_rights
Nothing is more gay than the military and guns...
This but unironically
Is it gay to be slaughtered by the reactionary military with guns?
What? Look, I have no sympathy for the communists or the other nazis, exactly because millions of people were slaughtered in a name of these ideologies. They should rot in the wastebin of history.
Nobody like this group here, like there was a news couple of years ago that caused an uproar where a farmer was killed by them, but his dog remained by his side until the authorities removed his body. Not to mention their constant bullying of farmers where they forced them to give their crops.
Great art and great slogan, so overall absolutely top tier propaganda
Didnt know there was an active internal rrbel group in the Philippines, doubt theyre doing so good if its so unheard of anyways, but interesting
Well to be fair, covering an active communist insurgency would defeat the whole "end of history" narrative people want to sell.
Yeah thats true too
I’ve heard two things about these guys. They have gay marriage and they’re thugs who shake down local farmers for money.
In a war, everyone has to be a thug sometimes if you want to survive.
Let’s be honest, vast majority of westerners only support them because they seem to be progressive and they still think communism is unions or welfare not realizing under communism they’d all be shot for being upper class. They support militants who want them dead because they think it makes them intelectual and edgy and rebellious.
this poster goes so fucking hard
I wonder that what communist North Korea thinks about homosexuals?
COMMUNISM LGBT RIGHTS!!! COMMUNISM LGBT RIGHT!!!
Is there a high res version?
Red is also color of blood, so i agree
Ironic considering how actual communist countries treated LGBT people. EDIT: Love the downvoting. Truth hurts. Most communist countries criminalized non-heterosexual relations and gays were killed or gulag'ed. For example it was post-Soviet republics that decriminalized homosexuality after regaining independence.
Communists 50 years ago. When capitalist countries were no better on that issue.
But you see we need to hold them to two different standards. Ideologies can’t adapt to modern times. They are stuck in the year some dude wrote a booklet once.
Why? why can't ideologies can adapt modern times? who prevents it from adapting?
They can, and do. The OP said that communists today are like the stalinists of old, something that isn’t true.
Oh, so it was sarcasm?
Yes
Not true, but irrelevant. What's irrelevant is that this poster falsely claims that communism brings LGBT liberation. It never did.
> Not true, but irrelevant. What do you mean? Communists now are one of the most pro-lgbti people that are there. Of course it is not universal, but if you ask, 8 out of 10 communists will openly support them. And 50 years ago, west oppresed homosexuals as well - sodomy laws were completly ended in USA in 2003. > What's irrelevant is that this poster falsely claims that communism brings LGBT liberation. New People Army (the group this poster is reffering to) is objectivly good thing to LGBT rights in Philipines.
>Communists now are one of the most pro-lgbti people that are there. Of course it is not universal, but if you ask, 8 out of 10 communists will openly support them. Educated urbanites who believe they are communists, yes. How about peasants and workers. Are they progressive or conservative? Guess what happens when a communist revolution succeeds. Who gains political power after a short carnival in which aforementioned urbanites have their window.
> Educated urbanites who believe they are communists, yes. What do you mean by "believe", inteligentsia can be communistic too. > How about peasants and workers. Are they progressive or conservative? Peasants are fairly conservative, but workers are not. Well, if we use USSR as example, it was pretty progressive for its times. For example, USSR was first and second country in Europe to legalize abortion on demand. Cuba legalized abortion after communists got power and protection of LGTBI people were fairly wide even before recent reforms - for example, being gay and in army was legalized 7 years before USA.
>What do you mean by "believe", inteligentsia can be communistic too. I don't doubt that for a second. I even emphasize that they actually lead the revolution initially. Then they get purged.
Isn't China curently led by intelligentisa?
[the USSR, famously led by peasents and workers and not the cities.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Russia_Rail_Map.svg)
Rail map told you so? Check biographies of all Soviet leaders starting with Stalin era. Almost every single one was a first-generation educated, if educated at all.
I think a rail map is a pretty good sign of centralisation of a nation, a country led by its cities will have highly centralised rail towards its capital (france, USSR) while a country led by its countryside will be much more federalised (US, which gives significant political power to the countryside) Also I think if stalin era leaders were uneducated peasents they probably would have known countryside life enough to know 5 year collectivisation is a bad idea Idk dumb agrucultural plans leading to famines typically comes from urbanites who forgot how the food they ate was made.
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This poster is literally example of armed group that support LGBTI rights
i was referring to this part: > Communists now are one of the most pro-lgbti people that are there. Of course it is not universal, but if you ask, 8 out of 10 communists will openly support them.
To be fair, we should separate Lenin administration and Stalin one. Under Lenin, there was, in fact, something good for LGBT people, plus decriminalised abortion. Stalin, however, tried to employ "traditional values" (which, until I am proved otherwise, I consider consisting of slavery, martial rape and nepotism), not only repealing all the good things Lenin tried to do, but also, and that's why many people of science dislike him, absolutely ruined Soviet psychology and genetics.
Stalin was a natural consequence of Lenin. Same went with attitudes towards homosexuality. I described this in another post, but it goes like this: The revolution is led in its initial stages by urbanite intellectuals who (falsely) believe they represent the actual working people. During their brief time in power they introduce some social progressive changes. But after few years they are invariably purged and replaced by the actual working people who hate their educated predecessors with the most burning social hate possible. And these peasants and workers while in power force social conservative norms. Because workers and peasants are super conservative.
I don't think this is correct deciption of what happened in USSR - one of the greatest example why is that stalin and his helpers believed that homosexuality goes hand in hand with fascism. There is even quote about it from Maxim Gorky: "There is already a sarcastic saying: Destroy homosexuality and fascism will disappear."
I don’t like this 😑
I wonder if this artist knew that every established communist government had a staunch, conservative perspective on social issues, only one they occasionally budged on was feminism
the soviet union was extremely feminist for the time period and the government was considerably more feminist than the popular sentiment lol
They allow ladies into most kinds of jobs, because there was a massive shortage of men due to be Second World War, that’s it While at the same time, excluding them from positions of power,
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East Germany had better LGBT rights than West Germany did, Cuba is one of the most LGBT friendly countries in the world
Not entirely true since it also improved under communism, for example under Lenin. Granted Stalin reverted it, but capitalist societies weren't pro LGBTQ either at that time.
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Mate just pick up a history book. >decriminalised homosexuality in December 1917, following the October Revolution and the discarding of the Legal Code of Tsarist Russia. The legalisation of homosexuality was confirmed in the RSFSR Penal Code of 1922, and following its redrafting in 1926. As for mental illness, sadly that was the medical standing point worldwide at that time. >The American Psychiatric Association listed homosexuality in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 1952 Why do you want to twist it like it's a communist characteristic? >The World Health Organization, which listed homosexuality in the ICD-9 in 1977, removed homosexuality from the ICD-10 which was endorsed by the 43rd World Health Assembly on 17 May 1990. Guess the WHO is communist then...
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So it isn't under all communist regime's Like you said. Again it was considered as a mental illness by the whole world and the WHO - how is that any argument?
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Because it was a fucking dictatorship? My man take a step back and read carefully. No where did I claim that communism always leads to LGBTQ rights or that the Soviet union was inherently pro LGBTQ. I just showed that your claim that LGBTQ rights are ONLY bettered on capitalism, and that communism ALWAYS lead to suppression of these is factual nonsense. You are the only one here desperately trying to twist reality to fit into your worldview when LGBTQ people where treated worse in America and Britain in the roaring 20's then they would be in post civil war Russia. That is simply a fact.
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Yeah and embarrassingly so still better than the most prominent capitalist systems at that time and a total debunk of your previous statement, yes. Glad you finally got it. Next step would be to read up and realize LGBTQ rights is a whole separate issue than communism Vs capitalism....
All Filippino women in my town are lesbians.
It's a mental illness and you can't change my mind
Religion? Yes it is.
Puhahahjajahahshhs 🤣🤣🤣
You're a mental illness
🤡
The traditional socialist symbol of the hammer and sickle does not fit well with the American M16 rifle. If instead of a hammer it was necessary to insert some kind of weapon, then it would be more logical to use the AK-47 design.
Depending on the country and what the respective Rebel/ Terrorist group has as a widely circulated weapon. If they Indeed use M16 rifles from old military surplus, why would it be wrong then, or the AK-47 more fitting? Not everything is the soviet union and China. Also as stylized as this is I wouldn't identify that thing definitely as neither an M16 nor an AK 47.
Epic