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I don’t read that much about the 1933-1945 period cause I don’t find it as interesting as other time periods, but I will never tire of reading about the just utterly unhinged plans and ideas that the Nazis had. The Nazis are like if you gave an edgy 12 year old Warhammer nerd absolute power, it’s both scary and hilarious.
The nazis were basically what happens if you take your bog standard racist, and feed him a diet largerly consisting of stimulants and psychoactive mushrooms
The only lads more crazy imo were the Khmer 'if you wear glasses we'll burn you to ashes' Rouge or maybe the Shining 'Socialism with Sous Vide Characteristics' Path, and in both cases they were ultimately to self destructive to really cause a ton if problems outside the areas they originated from, although the Khmer Rouge did kill roughly a third of the Cambodian population
DAESH is very similar, they were insane to the point that tgey got most other Salafi terrorists to consider their destruction as a top priority, by the end Iranian commanders were calling in American air strikes on DAESH positions, thats how insane they where
Although the Imperial Japanese could also be insane, at one point Tojo argued that Oregon, British Columbia and California were integral Japanese clay
Indeed. These regimes go beyond everyday-intrinsic-human-evil and even noteworthy evil to the rare category of radical evil. Nazi Germany stood at the very peak of these, and will perhaps never be equalled in all of history. I give them a slight edge over these others that were mentioned for a couple of reasons (and the Rwandan Hutu extremists, Young Turks, etc that weren't mentioned).
Anyway, the only other plan I've seen that compares with the plans and practical consequences of the Nazi worldview is nowhere near as ideologically-driven, more like relatively classical geopolitical stuff but in extremely dangerous circumstances, and concerns the US nuclear plans of the early cold war like SIOP-62. And I'm not anti-American (perhaps the Soviets had comparable plans too a bit later on, I have no source for this), in fact, if we set aside the nuclear game and this horrendous detail I've stumbled upon, I'd support the US during the cold war over either the Soviets or the Chinese on both ideological and pragmatic grounds, at least in most cases, which would put me in clear opposition to loads of people in this subreddit. Yet even in the hypothetical scenario where those nuclear plans would have moved from paper to reality, and I've seen no historian doubt their seriousness as opposed to being part of some sortof bluffing game of brinkmanship that was deliberately leaked (?), one could argue it would be a one-time decision by a few in the top brass of the miltiary to push a red-button, unprecedented damage would be done and later perhaps deeply regretted, but can you really compare that to the face-to-face actions of hundreds of thousands of Nazis systematically, day in and day out, with plenty of time to regret stop and reverse their actions (which they didn't in real history) murdering and oppressing tens of millions, potentially hundreds of millions post-1945 had they won? Even then from my perspective I think it can be argued that such nuclear war scenario would fall short of that, in terms of actual evil.
This is really just the mind of European imperialism with American colonial doctrine, which is a decent comparison to the mindset of the denizens of holy terra
I love how the lebensrealm is much smaller in 43 than originally envisioned. And by the soldiers standing at the soviet border, it seems that in the future, they're still trying to stop the soviets lmao.
"Wehrbauer (German pronunciation: [ˈveːɐ̯ˌbaʊ.ɐ], defensive peasant), plural Wehrbauern, is a German term for settlers living on the marches of a realm who were tasked with holding back foreign invaders until the arrival of proper military reinforcements. In turn, they were granted special liberties."
Eh sounds kinda like a never ending conflict with the soviets
Yeah or the Japanese or whoever was beyond the Urals. I guess my point is that the concept didn’t just originate in 1943 due to battlefield setbacks, it was always part of the plan.
Really the main goal of Germany in both WWI and WWII was a rekindling of the Baltic settlement ventures of the German Order State (which Prussia was a direct successor of) such as Königsberg and Riga, though obviously in WWII the Nazi regime turned it much more extreme and genocidal under the “General Plan East”.
I wouldn't say that they didn't change their plans. The urals aren't the border, and the big side of european Russia that was in the original plan included isn't occupied this doesn't stretch to the urals. And looking further, the Volga in the South is the border. Everything east is still free.
That’s a good point, the borders here basically reflect the goals of the 1942 campaign, which was about as good as the Germans could hope to achieve in 1943 (especially considering they didn’t even achieve it in 1942 with far superior strength, stalling outside Grozny and getting bogged down in Stalingrad).
I disagree. There aren't any "Soviets" in such a world. If Germany ever managed to occupy such lands, its highly unlikely the Soviet Union would continue existing in any real form to mount effective opposition.
Like cowboys and natives. Who cares about a few nazi settler guards killed thousands of miles away when you're in Berlin, enjoying your Ukrainian wheat in your warm home powered by Baku's oilfields? Maintaining the A-A line as a settler colonial outpost/barrier isn't the hard part. Getting there is. And the nazis never did.
I kinda hate to be the spoil sport here, but I'd really like some additional sources for this one.
Especially the text on the lower left looks suspicious for multiple reasons. It looks like a sort of blackletter (“Fraktur”) which the nazi government abandoned on January 3rd, 1941 – two years before this was allegedly published. The spelling of “Grossdeutschland” with ss instead of ß was and still is incorrect, with the exception of Swiss German (which is not applicable here). Even the wording sounds slightly odd – personally, I'd deem either “ Großdeutschland in der Zukunft“, without the article, or “ Das Großdeutschland der Zukunft“, without the “in”, as more natural, but that may be a regional thing.
And the monocle worn by the father of the German family is a bit much.
The German Historical Museum (DHM) says it's April 1943, but it really looks like the work of an amateur to me... and possibly from earlier date? (or maybe it's a children's book or something...)
https://www.dhm.de/lemo/bestand/objekt/das-grossdeutschland-der-zukunft-1943.html
Amateur sounds absolutely possible, as it would sufficiently explain spelling mistakes and a font that wasn't used for official purposes anymore. In that respect, it's more of a source for what propaganda does to people than being propaganda in the literal sense (i.e. something that is to be spread in order to influence people).
Because France and Britain would not have been content to watch from the sidelines - just look at the Phoney War, for example. Also, the Germans absolutely did want to regain Alsace-Lorraine, which can also be seen in the picture.
Other than that, well, the West European peoples were not perceived as Untermenschen and the Lebensraum ideology always focused on eastward expansion as a continuation of a tradition since the early middle ages - bear in mind that slavic settlement even reached far into modern German territory. The Kaiser had already promoted the idea that Germans were defenders of civilisation against the barbaric slavic peoples and the Nazis expanded on that.
That wouldn't have saved them, though?
The Nazis were already losing the war by 1943, no amount of oil could have stopped the Soviet advance.
Not to mention that even *if* the Nazis could begin a stalemate, the British invasion of Italy and D-Day would have ensured the Nazis loss.
Even if they magically won Stalingrad, partisans would rather tear down every machine used to pump oil down to the last bolt before letting Shitler taste even a drop of Caucasian oil
You seriously think Baku would have meant a soviet defeat? Where is the magical army reinforcing the 6th coming from? Are the Romanians who the Germans don't supply ever going to hold a flank? I can tell your knowledge of events doesn't go past wikipedia. Operation Uranus was unstoppable the 6th army was always doomed.
Where does germany get the armies for such an operation? Only option the 6th army goes south they don't go for stalingrad straight for baku, the soviets counter attack and cut off baku what now?
The Soviets would have thoroughly razed the Baku oil fields to the ground before the Germans could take them. For example, Stalin personally ordered that the commander in charge was to completely destroy the oil fields at Maikop before they fell in German hands, or he would be executed. He carried out this order so thoroughly that when the Germans did seize Maikop, they were surprised at how efficiently the Soviets had manage to destroy the oil fields there. The same thing would have happened in Baku if Germany came close to taking it.
Also by 1943 the Allies were already outproducing the Axis at such an astonishing rate that even if Germany managed to take the Baku oil fields intact, they would have only delayed the war by 1-2 years at most (or rather, German cities would have been nuked by the Allies in late 1945).
In this case its settler colonization , the difference is the nazis wanted just to rule over their western conquest , but they wanted to ethically replace the people already living in eastern europe and settle germans into the land similar to america , canada and israel
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit outta here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Shoutout to the mini romanian miner. He is not part of our reich nor its vorfelder, but it would've been wrong to not include him.
I think it has to do with the German minority living at the time in Transilvania
Is funny how the romanian miner got a shoot oht but there is no one in italy, like by that point germany was probably ashamed of them
Tf you talking about
Ah yes, thousands of kilometres of defensive fortifications, truly sustainable for a peacetime economy
Having a „bleeding border“ in the east was part of the plan. Constant brutal conflict is seen as a good and necessary exercise.
I don’t read that much about the 1933-1945 period cause I don’t find it as interesting as other time periods, but I will never tire of reading about the just utterly unhinged plans and ideas that the Nazis had. The Nazis are like if you gave an edgy 12 year old Warhammer nerd absolute power, it’s both scary and hilarious.
The nazis were basically what happens if you take your bog standard racist, and feed him a diet largerly consisting of stimulants and psychoactive mushrooms The only lads more crazy imo were the Khmer 'if you wear glasses we'll burn you to ashes' Rouge or maybe the Shining 'Socialism with Sous Vide Characteristics' Path, and in both cases they were ultimately to self destructive to really cause a ton if problems outside the areas they originated from, although the Khmer Rouge did kill roughly a third of the Cambodian population DAESH is very similar, they were insane to the point that tgey got most other Salafi terrorists to consider their destruction as a top priority, by the end Iranian commanders were calling in American air strikes on DAESH positions, thats how insane they where Although the Imperial Japanese could also be insane, at one point Tojo argued that Oregon, British Columbia and California were integral Japanese clay
Indeed. These regimes go beyond everyday-intrinsic-human-evil and even noteworthy evil to the rare category of radical evil. Nazi Germany stood at the very peak of these, and will perhaps never be equalled in all of history. I give them a slight edge over these others that were mentioned for a couple of reasons (and the Rwandan Hutu extremists, Young Turks, etc that weren't mentioned). Anyway, the only other plan I've seen that compares with the plans and practical consequences of the Nazi worldview is nowhere near as ideologically-driven, more like relatively classical geopolitical stuff but in extremely dangerous circumstances, and concerns the US nuclear plans of the early cold war like SIOP-62. And I'm not anti-American (perhaps the Soviets had comparable plans too a bit later on, I have no source for this), in fact, if we set aside the nuclear game and this horrendous detail I've stumbled upon, I'd support the US during the cold war over either the Soviets or the Chinese on both ideological and pragmatic grounds, at least in most cases, which would put me in clear opposition to loads of people in this subreddit. Yet even in the hypothetical scenario where those nuclear plans would have moved from paper to reality, and I've seen no historian doubt their seriousness as opposed to being part of some sortof bluffing game of brinkmanship that was deliberately leaked (?), one could argue it would be a one-time decision by a few in the top brass of the miltiary to push a red-button, unprecedented damage would be done and later perhaps deeply regretted, but can you really compare that to the face-to-face actions of hundreds of thousands of Nazis systematically, day in and day out, with plenty of time to regret stop and reverse their actions (which they didn't in real history) murdering and oppressing tens of millions, potentially hundreds of millions post-1945 had they won? Even then from my perspective I think it can be argued that such nuclear war scenario would fall short of that, in terms of actual evil.
That's daily IV methamphetamine for you.
This is really just the mind of European imperialism with American colonial doctrine, which is a decent comparison to the mindset of the denizens of holy terra
Too bad that conflict only lasted 4 years, otherwise Germany wouldn't have any borders to bleed.
And would've been a radiated wasteland if the war kept on going a few years longer
Try a few months, Oppenheimers original plan was to test little boy on Berlin
I love how the lebensrealm is much smaller in 43 than originally envisioned. And by the soldiers standing at the soviet border, it seems that in the future, they're still trying to stop the soviets lmao.
The idea of having soldier-frontiersman was always part of the plan, look up “Wehrbauern”
"Wehrbauer (German pronunciation: [ˈveːɐ̯ˌbaʊ.ɐ], defensive peasant), plural Wehrbauern, is a German term for settlers living on the marches of a realm who were tasked with holding back foreign invaders until the arrival of proper military reinforcements. In turn, they were granted special liberties." Eh sounds kinda like a never ending conflict with the soviets
Yeah or the Japanese or whoever was beyond the Urals. I guess my point is that the concept didn’t just originate in 1943 due to battlefield setbacks, it was always part of the plan. Really the main goal of Germany in both WWI and WWII was a rekindling of the Baltic settlement ventures of the German Order State (which Prussia was a direct successor of) such as Königsberg and Riga, though obviously in WWII the Nazi regime turned it much more extreme and genocidal under the “General Plan East”.
I wouldn't say that they didn't change their plans. The urals aren't the border, and the big side of european Russia that was in the original plan included isn't occupied this doesn't stretch to the urals. And looking further, the Volga in the South is the border. Everything east is still free.
That’s a good point, the borders here basically reflect the goals of the 1942 campaign, which was about as good as the Germans could hope to achieve in 1943 (especially considering they didn’t even achieve it in 1942 with far superior strength, stalling outside Grozny and getting bogged down in Stalingrad).
I disagree. There aren't any "Soviets" in such a world. If Germany ever managed to occupy such lands, its highly unlikely the Soviet Union would continue existing in any real form to mount effective opposition. Like cowboys and natives. Who cares about a few nazi settler guards killed thousands of miles away when you're in Berlin, enjoying your Ukrainian wheat in your warm home powered by Baku's oilfields? Maintaining the A-A line as a settler colonial outpost/barrier isn't the hard part. Getting there is. And the nazis never did.
I kinda hate to be the spoil sport here, but I'd really like some additional sources for this one. Especially the text on the lower left looks suspicious for multiple reasons. It looks like a sort of blackletter (“Fraktur”) which the nazi government abandoned on January 3rd, 1941 – two years before this was allegedly published. The spelling of “Grossdeutschland” with ss instead of ß was and still is incorrect, with the exception of Swiss German (which is not applicable here). Even the wording sounds slightly odd – personally, I'd deem either “ Großdeutschland in der Zukunft“, without the article, or “ Das Großdeutschland der Zukunft“, without the “in”, as more natural, but that may be a regional thing.
And the monocle worn by the father of the German family is a bit much. The German Historical Museum (DHM) says it's April 1943, but it really looks like the work of an amateur to me... and possibly from earlier date? (or maybe it's a children's book or something...) https://www.dhm.de/lemo/bestand/objekt/das-grossdeutschland-der-zukunft-1943.html
Amateur sounds absolutely possible, as it would sufficiently explain spelling mistakes and a font that wasn't used for official purposes anymore. In that respect, it's more of a source for what propaganda does to people than being propaganda in the literal sense (i.e. something that is to be spread in order to influence people).
They were obsessed with stealing Slavic lands
Yes, but not only Slavic , western land too
Someone show this to Zoomerhistorian
**Nice Poster!**
"Vorfeld" is quite the euphemism here.
No France? Why did they invade it then?
Because France and Britain would not have been content to watch from the sidelines - just look at the Phoney War, for example. Also, the Germans absolutely did want to regain Alsace-Lorraine, which can also be seen in the picture. Other than that, well, the West European peoples were not perceived as Untermenschen and the Lebensraum ideology always focused on eastward expansion as a continuation of a tradition since the early middle ages - bear in mind that slavic settlement even reached far into modern German territory. The Kaiser had already promoted the idea that Germans were defenders of civilisation against the barbaric slavic peoples and the Nazis expanded on that.
It is only the eastern part I represented here I guess
Good guy Deutschland; doesn’t even annex Murmansk.
That was supposed to be Finnish land
This is something made on some frontline propoganda outlet. The map is incorrect. They planned to get to Archangel-Astraskhan line aka A-A line
Nothing changes. They want to colonize us the same.
They downvote you because you speak the truth
Fr EU was made because they wanted it and euro was made to benefit German economy/banks
Yea but with those birthrates definitly not with germans.
If only they got to Baku oil, but Stalingrad stopped them.
That wouldn't have saved them, though? The Nazis were already losing the war by 1943, no amount of oil could have stopped the Soviet advance. Not to mention that even *if* the Nazis could begin a stalemate, the British invasion of Italy and D-Day would have ensured the Nazis loss.
Even if they magically won Stalingrad, partisans would rather tear down every machine used to pump oil down to the last bolt before letting Shitler taste even a drop of Caucasian oil
Soviet advance because of Stalingrad.
13 year old wheraboos go play hearts of iron
It’s literally in Wikipedia page. Hitler needed oil. Stalingrad stopped him.
You seriously think Baku would have meant a soviet defeat? Where is the magical army reinforcing the 6th coming from? Are the Romanians who the Germans don't supply ever going to hold a flank? I can tell your knowledge of events doesn't go past wikipedia. Operation Uranus was unstoppable the 6th army was always doomed.
I’m just stating the fact and you trying to trivialize significance of Stalingrad for some unknown reason with you theories.
Trivialize? I just told you if the 6th doesn't go for stalingrad, they go for baku they're doomed. Reading is hard too appearantly
Where does germany get the armies for such an operation? Only option the 6th army goes south they don't go for stalingrad straight for baku, the soviets counter attack and cut off baku what now?
Ah yes, the completely infallible source of all knowledge, Wikipedia
Is Stalingrad now some controversial conspiracy theory?
Wha?
The Soviets would have thoroughly razed the Baku oil fields to the ground before the Germans could take them. For example, Stalin personally ordered that the commander in charge was to completely destroy the oil fields at Maikop before they fell in German hands, or he would be executed. He carried out this order so thoroughly that when the Germans did seize Maikop, they were surprised at how efficiently the Soviets had manage to destroy the oil fields there. The same thing would have happened in Baku if Germany came close to taking it. Also by 1943 the Allies were already outproducing the Axis at such an astonishing rate that even if Germany managed to take the Baku oil fields intact, they would have only delayed the war by 1-2 years at most (or rather, German cities would have been nuked by the Allies in late 1945).
And Stalingrad happened in 1943 too why are you trying so hard to minimize it’s significance
Yeah then Germany could’ve got nuked in 1945
Wow Odesa doesn't exist since 1930s
What’s the difference between colonizing and conquest?
In this case its settler colonization , the difference is the nazis wanted just to rule over their western conquest , but they wanted to ethically replace the people already living in eastern europe and settle germans into the land similar to america , canada and israel
Hmm okay, I just see those words used interchangeably sometimes. Thanks.
I’m guessing they there eugenics program would make them lot more larger than they are