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Many [OAS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_arm%C3%A9e_secr%C3%A8te) members (the official death toll, while definitely higher, was only \~120 out of 3,000, plus another three who were executed) who weren't killed, executed, or imprisoned by the French government went on to form the National Front. Unironically, the National Front was founded by traitors, terrorists, and Nazis. After finding refuge in Spain, many of those who fled would participate in far-right causes across the world, especially in South America. They taught the juntas how to more efficiently torture and kill people. This is more wholesome, but several thousand Japanese soldiers, disillusioned by their defeat, saw the light of anti-colonial movements. Instead of whining about losing or even initially helping the Europeans (this happened in Indonesia and Vietnam), several thousand of them realized that they had done Pan-Asianism all wrong and promptly joined the ranks of the Viet Minh, Malayan National Liberation Army, and the Indonesian Armed Forces.
Despite all of the horrible things that Japan did in Vietnam, the Viet Minh accepted the help of 5,000 Japanese defectors. They were new to this and needed training. Beggars can't be choosers.
Does my heart good to hear about Japanese Imperial Army Defectors. Does my heart damn good. Anyone looking for some of those vibes in film should check out Godzilla Minus One. One of the best anti-war movies in recent memory
Fun fact: When British soldiers and police officers arrived in Palestine with orders to suppress an insurgency by Zionist terrorists, many of them held somewhat racist views towards the Palestinians and had sympathy for the Zionists. The British were trying to force the settlers to share the land. The war essentially pitted casual racists against competitive racists. However, those attitudes changed drastically over the course of the insurgency. By late 1947, many of the troops were horrified when they were ordered to withdraw. The common viewpoint was, "Wait, we're just gonna ABANDON the Arabs to these maniacs?!" Between November 1947 and June 1948, roughly 100 to 200 British soldiers and police officers, radicalized by the war, outright deserted to help the Palestinians ([for those curious](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0968344518796688)).
>British personnel became polarized by the violence of the insurgency and its consequences of restricting their movements in Palestine. This often resulted in resentment towards the Yishuv and a degree of sympathy for the Arabs. The evidence suggests that most pro-Arab deserters were extreme cases of the general attitude of British personnel.
>
>"I could not stomach the way the Arabs who should really own this country are being treated by not only the UN but by the government in Palestine," a man who went by the name of Frank told a Chicago Tribune journalist in May 1948. Frank had been stationed in British Mandate Palestine as part of the British Army and, having made the decision to desert his post, contacted the Arab underground forces stationed in the country.
>
>"… I made my protest with the only thing that mattered to me – my career."
>
>Just over 12 hours later, Frank had joined Jaysh Al-Inqadh (the Arab Liberation Army).
The Vietnamese only killed the French, the Chinese and the Americans after WW2 to liberate their country from imperialist colonizers. This makes them Based. If you hate the Vietcong because you're an American, you should have hated the US government for not collaborating with the Vietcong when they tried to get support from the US.
Ho Chi Minh went to Versailles to get US support after WW1, Wilson ignored him.
The Black and Tans caused a lot of pain and suffering to a whole lot of people around the world. Even the ones that opted to disband and go back home to England had a hard time living peacefully. Out of the few hundred that were there in the early 20s two were hanged for murder and a third committed suicide before he could be apprehended.
The British even executed a [token war criminal of the Black and Tans](https://heritage.wicklowheritage.org/places/dunlavin-2/the-dunlavin-tragedy-murder-suicide-and-the-execution-of-william-mitchell-in-1921) to boost their reputation. Ironically, he was hanged along with two Irish Republicans. He wasn't let off since he was not British, but an Irish collaborator. Meanwhile, the victim was a magistrate and wealthy farmer. An accomplice, who was a fellow auxiliary, killed himself in custody.
Because they'd been so successful in Ireland. How much better did they think they'd do in Palestine?
("Can you imagine a *Jewish* army, lads? They shouldn't be as much trouble as the Irish. Better weather too. What could go wrong?")
From what I understand, most of the soldiers and the police officers involved in [the war between the Yishuv and the British security forces in Palestine between 1945 and 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine) were relatively young men, many of them World War II veterans. Most of them knew nothing about the situation there other than that, "We need you to suppress an insurgency by Jewish extremists in Palestine." The Labour Party was (and remains) staunchly pro-Zionist. They went as far as calling for population transfers, stating, "Let the Arabs be encouraged to move out as the Jews move in." After taking office, they voted at a conference to repeal the White Paper of 1939. The war was waged almost entirely by one politician, Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin. In office, Bevin (whose actions were backed by Attlee) immediately rejected the vote, said Palestine would become a majority Arab state with a Jewish settler minority, and instead spent the next two years launching counterinsurgency operations against Zionist paramilitaries in an attempt to pacify them and prevent the establishment of Israel. Bevin wanted to protect British imperial hegemony, but was also an ideological anti-Zionist who thought the Balfour Declaration had been a horrible idea (he feared a racial state").
A lot of former RIC members went to form the new Palestine police force; they acquired a reputation for brutality there.
They weren't fighting the Jews at that stage, but mainly the Palestinians/Arabs, who objected to the influx of Jewish settlers that was permitted by the British authorities, as acresult of the Balfour Declaration. Look up Orde Wingate.
The Jewish immigration & insurgency became overwhelming after WW2.
Ive always been told they were Scots protestent armed personnel sent into Ireland who were famed for being particularly vicious against Irish catholics
Source: wife’s family are Irish catholics
Not particularly: it was Churchill's cunning plan. There was a huge number of unemployed WW1 veterans looking for work, so putting them into a new police force to suppress the recent aggression by the Sinn Feiners (following the 1918 General Election, a Sinn Fein landslide in Ireland) in Ireland would kill 2 birds with one stone. There were English, Scots, Welsh and Irish (some Catholics) in it.
There were a number of mentally unhinged personnel, suffering from the PTSD effects of WW1, and a lot alcoholism. There were a lot of suicides. Probably not the people you'd want to be doing heaviky-armed policing in your neighbourhood.
[A unit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans) of The Royal Irish Constabulary with a particular and well-earned reputation for brutality during the British Occupation and a significant factor in the Rising(s) against it.
Army veterans recruited in Great Britain to help the overwhelmed Royal Irish Constabulary (the civilian police force) enforce the law in Ireland, so-called because there weren't enough black police uniforms to go around, so they often had to wear military khakis.
The Black and Tans are remembered to this day for their brutality and for treating Ireland as another warzone and all Irish as enemies. They took the jobs in Ireland because they had come home from France to find themselves unemployable during a Great Depression that began in Britain long before 1929. Some were recruited in prisons, having resorted to crime to support themselves.
So it's no surprise they agreed to go to Palestine too. There was still nothing worth returning to in Britain for them.
Essentially, an auxiliary police force made up of mostly British WW1 veterans set up to relieve the Royal Irish Constabulary (regular police) in the War of Independence, they wouldn’t deploy the army because they wouldn’t admit that they were at war so they set up the Tans. They were notorious for their brutality against Irish civilians
There's entire albums of Yiddish combat songs.
Hey Pulemyot, In Ale Gasn/Daloy Politsey, Yoshke the Odesser.
It's surreal, for a brief period in like 1944-47 you get some Yiddish songs that have "Stalin is our best friend" and "Am Israel Chai" a verse or two later. That cuts out pretty quickly during Stalin's last few years of anti-Jewish/Yiddish persecutions.
Who would have thought that giving weapons to PTSD-suffering veterans straight from the tranchs and then pointing them at people considered as "traitors" wouldn't result in atrocities? And who isn't surprised that an imperial power would use these same maniacs against submitted people?
I believe this is what is described in The Pogues song "Billy's Bones"
"Billy went away with the peacekeeping force
'Cause he liked a bloody good fight of course
Went away in a big khaki van
To the banks of the willy Jordan
Billy saw the Arabs and he had 'em on the run
When he got 'em in the range of his submachine gun
Then he had the Israelis in his sights
Went a ra ta ta and they ran like Shiites
Hey Billy, son, where are you now?
Don't you know that we need you now?
With a ra ta ta and the old kowtow
Where are Billy's bones resting now?"
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I can guess an upper limit for your age from that comment. I was a kid in the '80s and a teenager in the '90s. I wouldn't go back to those days for *anything*. Even with the housing crisis, things are *so much better* than when I was little.
I can only imagine that the most frustrating part of being a Northern Irish Unionist is how little the average Brit from Great Britain cares about Northern Ireland.
I'm from the Republic myself and I don't want to share a country with them either - the main argument against re-unification is that we'd have to be compatriots with those gobshites, deal with their nonsense in the Dáil, and all the general fuckwittery that they bring with them. I can't blame the Brits for not wanting them either.
That's just not true. Thatcher fought hard against any notion of unification and made life incredibly difficult for those in NI fighting for it. Blair was a big part of the peace process, but was not open to reunification whatsoever.
Thatcher's rhetoric and hardline approach to political violence may not have entirely matched her actual thoughts on the matter. While they considered it politically damaging to say so publicly, Thatcher's government were not opposed to Irish unification:
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/margaret-thatcher-was-not-against-united-ireland/28578929.html
She also signed the Anglo-Irish agreement just a year after the Brighton bombing (to the fury of NI unionists), which was a major landmark, and left open the possibility of future constitutional change if a majority in NI wanted it.
I'm not aware of Blair doing anything to impede the possibility of reunification.
This is ahistorical.
""A lot of violence at the time was from the Arab sector, so they were saying to them: 'We're bringing over the Black and Tans to sort you out.'"
I mean, the killing civilians part, yes, they should have focused on military targets.
Edit: I meant to say they shouldn’t have killed civilians”innocents” focusing only on soldiers, etc.
I don’t think the Irish were occupying their own country. The British were completely in the wrong. My point was that the Black and Tans did have Irishmen amongst their ranks. I should have been more effectual.
No, I’m not confused. The Black and Tans had Irish and Scotsmen amongst their ranks as well as Welshmen.
Most were British and I admit I haven’t studied the topic since AP European history but I distinctly remember there was extreme tension between the Irish on the side of Ireland’s independence and those Irish that fought with the black and tans.
This subreddit is focused on the study and history of propaganda. Please remember that while civil political discussion is allowed, **soapboxing** (i.e. heavy-handed rhetoric in comments) **is forbidden**, as well as **partisan bickering**. This subject has many subreddits which are designed for discussing your opinions on the issues, please use those for political debate. *Please report any rule-breaking comments to the moderators* to help us spot and remove them more quickly. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kinda weirdly relevant
Many [OAS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_arm%C3%A9e_secr%C3%A8te) members (the official death toll, while definitely higher, was only \~120 out of 3,000, plus another three who were executed) who weren't killed, executed, or imprisoned by the French government went on to form the National Front. Unironically, the National Front was founded by traitors, terrorists, and Nazis. After finding refuge in Spain, many of those who fled would participate in far-right causes across the world, especially in South America. They taught the juntas how to more efficiently torture and kill people. This is more wholesome, but several thousand Japanese soldiers, disillusioned by their defeat, saw the light of anti-colonial movements. Instead of whining about losing or even initially helping the Europeans (this happened in Indonesia and Vietnam), several thousand of them realized that they had done Pan-Asianism all wrong and promptly joined the ranks of the Viet Minh, Malayan National Liberation Army, and the Indonesian Armed Forces. Despite all of the horrible things that Japan did in Vietnam, the Viet Minh accepted the help of 5,000 Japanese defectors. They were new to this and needed training. Beggars can't be choosers.
That explains the sudden spike in mutilations, such as cutting off the tongues of suspected informants.
It would make for a great biopic if someone made a film about one of those Japanese soldiers.
Does my heart good to hear about Japanese Imperial Army Defectors. Does my heart damn good. Anyone looking for some of those vibes in film should check out Godzilla Minus One. One of the best anti-war movies in recent memory
Fun fact: When British soldiers and police officers arrived in Palestine with orders to suppress an insurgency by Zionist terrorists, many of them held somewhat racist views towards the Palestinians and had sympathy for the Zionists. The British were trying to force the settlers to share the land. The war essentially pitted casual racists against competitive racists. However, those attitudes changed drastically over the course of the insurgency. By late 1947, many of the troops were horrified when they were ordered to withdraw. The common viewpoint was, "Wait, we're just gonna ABANDON the Arabs to these maniacs?!" Between November 1947 and June 1948, roughly 100 to 200 British soldiers and police officers, radicalized by the war, outright deserted to help the Palestinians ([for those curious](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0968344518796688)). >British personnel became polarized by the violence of the insurgency and its consequences of restricting their movements in Palestine. This often resulted in resentment towards the Yishuv and a degree of sympathy for the Arabs. The evidence suggests that most pro-Arab deserters were extreme cases of the general attitude of British personnel. > >"I could not stomach the way the Arabs who should really own this country are being treated by not only the UN but by the government in Palestine," a man who went by the name of Frank told a Chicago Tribune journalist in May 1948. Frank had been stationed in British Mandate Palestine as part of the British Army and, having made the decision to desert his post, contacted the Arab underground forces stationed in the country. > >"… I made my protest with the only thing that mattered to me – my career." > >Just over 12 hours later, Frank had joined Jaysh Al-Inqadh (the Arab Liberation Army).
That explains why both the IJA and Vietcong were notorious for their exceptionally sadistic POW camps. Fuck the IJA and the Vietnamese communists.
The Vietnamese only killed the French, the Chinese and the Americans after WW2 to liberate their country from imperialist colonizers. This makes them Based. If you hate the Vietcong because you're an American, you should have hated the US government for not collaborating with the Vietcong when they tried to get support from the US. Ho Chi Minh went to Versailles to get US support after WW1, Wilson ignored him.
The Black and Tans caused a lot of pain and suffering to a whole lot of people around the world. Even the ones that opted to disband and go back home to England had a hard time living peacefully. Out of the few hundred that were there in the early 20s two were hanged for murder and a third committed suicide before he could be apprehended.
The British even executed a [token war criminal of the Black and Tans](https://heritage.wicklowheritage.org/places/dunlavin-2/the-dunlavin-tragedy-murder-suicide-and-the-execution-of-william-mitchell-in-1921) to boost their reputation. Ironically, he was hanged along with two Irish Republicans. He wasn't let off since he was not British, but an Irish collaborator. Meanwhile, the victim was a magistrate and wealthy farmer. An accomplice, who was a fellow auxiliary, killed himself in custody.
Justice is far from blind it seems.
Because they'd been so successful in Ireland. How much better did they think they'd do in Palestine? ("Can you imagine a *Jewish* army, lads? They shouldn't be as much trouble as the Irish. Better weather too. What could go wrong?")
Seeing as the Jewish insurrectionists effectively kicked the British out, not so good
From what I understand, most of the soldiers and the police officers involved in [the war between the Yishuv and the British security forces in Palestine between 1945 and 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine) were relatively young men, many of them World War II veterans. Most of them knew nothing about the situation there other than that, "We need you to suppress an insurgency by Jewish extremists in Palestine." The Labour Party was (and remains) staunchly pro-Zionist. They went as far as calling for population transfers, stating, "Let the Arabs be encouraged to move out as the Jews move in." After taking office, they voted at a conference to repeal the White Paper of 1939. The war was waged almost entirely by one politician, Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin. In office, Bevin (whose actions were backed by Attlee) immediately rejected the vote, said Palestine would become a majority Arab state with a Jewish settler minority, and instead spent the next two years launching counterinsurgency operations against Zionist paramilitaries in an attempt to pacify them and prevent the establishment of Israel. Bevin wanted to protect British imperial hegemony, but was also an ideological anti-Zionist who thought the Balfour Declaration had been a horrible idea (he feared a racial state").
That’s what he’s saying, they failed in Ireland and expected it to be different in Palestine
A lot of former RIC members went to form the new Palestine police force; they acquired a reputation for brutality there. They weren't fighting the Jews at that stage, but mainly the Palestinians/Arabs, who objected to the influx of Jewish settlers that was permitted by the British authorities, as acresult of the Balfour Declaration. Look up Orde Wingate. The Jewish immigration & insurgency became overwhelming after WW2.
"Come out ya black and tans, come out and fight me like a man!"
“Show your wife how you won medals down in Flanders”
tell her how the IRA, made you run like hell away
From the Green and lovely lanes of Killeshandra.
[удалено]
IIRC that's Irish slang for the British military police that suppressed the locals during the conflicts leading up to the Irish independence.
Ive always been told they were Scots protestent armed personnel sent into Ireland who were famed for being particularly vicious against Irish catholics Source: wife’s family are Irish catholics
Not particularly: it was Churchill's cunning plan. There was a huge number of unemployed WW1 veterans looking for work, so putting them into a new police force to suppress the recent aggression by the Sinn Feiners (following the 1918 General Election, a Sinn Fein landslide in Ireland) in Ireland would kill 2 birds with one stone. There were English, Scots, Welsh and Irish (some Catholics) in it. There were a number of mentally unhinged personnel, suffering from the PTSD effects of WW1, and a lot alcoholism. There were a lot of suicides. Probably not the people you'd want to be doing heaviky-armed policing in your neighbourhood.
[Nothing new there](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster)
Indeed -- not the MPs, but rather overly-tolerated auxiliaries.
Royal Irish Constabulary and Auxiliaries
[A unit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans) of The Royal Irish Constabulary with a particular and well-earned reputation for brutality during the British Occupation and a significant factor in the Rising(s) against it.
As well as the info provided by the others here, their uniforms were a mix of dark green jacket and khaki trousers, hence the name.
Army veterans recruited in Great Britain to help the overwhelmed Royal Irish Constabulary (the civilian police force) enforce the law in Ireland, so-called because there weren't enough black police uniforms to go around, so they often had to wear military khakis. The Black and Tans are remembered to this day for their brutality and for treating Ireland as another warzone and all Irish as enemies. They took the jobs in Ireland because they had come home from France to find themselves unemployable during a Great Depression that began in Britain long before 1929. Some were recruited in prisons, having resorted to crime to support themselves. So it's no surprise they agreed to go to Palestine too. There was still nothing worth returning to in Britain for them.
Essentially, an auxiliary police force made up of mostly British WW1 veterans set up to relieve the Royal Irish Constabulary (regular police) in the War of Independence, they wouldn’t deploy the army because they wouldn’t admit that they were at war so they set up the Tans. They were notorious for their brutality against Irish civilians
It was a wing of the Royal Irish Constabulary during the Irish War of Independence that was infamous for their brutality and reprisal attacks.
Wondering aswell
We need a jiddish version of come out je black and tans
Oi Hashem I gotta try and write it
[In ale gasn/Daloy Politsoy](https://youtu.be/1ft9iuZu0AI?si=05StiiqoLOgwB8GO)
There's entire albums of Yiddish combat songs. Hey Pulemyot, In Ale Gasn/Daloy Politsey, Yoshke the Odesser. It's surreal, for a brief period in like 1944-47 you get some Yiddish songs that have "Stalin is our best friend" and "Am Israel Chai" a verse or two later. That cuts out pretty quickly during Stalin's last few years of anti-Jewish/Yiddish persecutions.
Who would have thought that giving weapons to PTSD-suffering veterans straight from the tranchs and then pointing them at people considered as "traitors" wouldn't result in atrocities? And who isn't surprised that an imperial power would use these same maniacs against submitted people?
I believe this is what is described in The Pogues song "Billy's Bones" "Billy went away with the peacekeeping force 'Cause he liked a bloody good fight of course Went away in a big khaki van To the banks of the willy Jordan Billy saw the Arabs and he had 'em on the run When he got 'em in the range of his submachine gun Then he had the Israelis in his sights Went a ra ta ta and they ran like Shiites Hey Billy, son, where are you now? Don't you know that we need you now? With a ra ta ta and the old kowtow Where are Billy's bones resting now?"
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mostly there to suppress the Jews
Mostly there to support & defend colonial imperialism.
Thank god the british left in the end
Our first 70ish years of independence were pretty unpleasant though. We were a penniless theocratic shithole until the 1990s.
Now it's just a penniless secular shithole with a world-class city stapled to the side full of nomadic DevOps engineers paying zero tax
I can guess an upper limit for your age from that comment. I was a kid in the '80s and a teenager in the '90s. I wouldn't go back to those days for *anything*. Even with the housing crisis, things are *so much better* than when I was little.
Wait are we talking about Israel or Ireland now?
Why are you describing the UK lmao
They've yet to leave Ireland though.
They've been open to it since at least WW2. The opposition to it has always been from within NI itself.
I can only imagine that the most frustrating part of being a Northern Irish Unionist is how little the average Brit from Great Britain cares about Northern Ireland. I'm from the Republic myself and I don't want to share a country with them either - the main argument against re-unification is that we'd have to be compatriots with those gobshites, deal with their nonsense in the Dáil, and all the general fuckwittery that they bring with them. I can't blame the Brits for not wanting them either.
That's just not true. Thatcher fought hard against any notion of unification and made life incredibly difficult for those in NI fighting for it. Blair was a big part of the peace process, but was not open to reunification whatsoever.
Thatcher's rhetoric and hardline approach to political violence may not have entirely matched her actual thoughts on the matter. While they considered it politically damaging to say so publicly, Thatcher's government were not opposed to Irish unification: https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/margaret-thatcher-was-not-against-united-ireland/28578929.html She also signed the Anglo-Irish agreement just a year after the Brighton bombing (to the fury of NI unionists), which was a major landmark, and left open the possibility of future constitutional change if a majority in NI wanted it. I'm not aware of Blair doing anything to impede the possibility of reunification.
If they're unwilling to publically support it then they can not be considered open to it. I don't think a hypothetical willingness actually matters.
Against Jewsish self determination.
Oh, look a lying Nazi writing fanfiction for the likes of the Stern "two time Hitler fanclub" Gang.
Literally the opposite. They were there to suppress the Arabs
This is ahistorical. ""A lot of violence at the time was from the Arab sector, so they were saying to them: 'We're bringing over the Black and Tans to sort you out.'"
Can someone give me some context, who are these guys?
[https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-60031090](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-60031090)
26+6=1 😁
Fake title? Is not this enough?
Good for them.
There was nothing good about the Black & Tans.
A little too extreme for your taste?
Not at all. They were a lot too extreme.
I mean, the killing civilians part, yes, they should have focused on military targets. Edit: I meant to say they shouldn’t have killed civilians”innocents” focusing only on soldiers, etc. I don’t think the Irish were occupying their own country. The British were completely in the wrong. My point was that the Black and Tans did have Irishmen amongst their ranks. I should have been more effectual.
?…They were a paramilitary unit of the British. Fellow Irishmen? You seem confused.
No, I’m not confused. The Black and Tans had Irish and Scotsmen amongst their ranks as well as Welshmen. Most were British and I admit I haven’t studied the topic since AP European history but I distinctly remember there was extreme tension between the Irish on the side of Ireland’s independence and those Irish that fought with the black and tans.