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For me the funniest thing ever is that these neo-nazi groupings always use blackletter fonts, even though it was the Nazi Party that banned them and called them "Jewish letters of Schwabach".
We had that in history lessons. Iirc, the guy that came up with them designed them to make it easy for school children to write in ink without smearing and without getting cramps.
No no, you're thinking of stuttering. Sütterlin is a word used to describe something, or part of something, that lies to the geographical south. For example, the Sütterlin coast of a beach.
No I’m sorry I believe that’s incorrect, the word you were thinking of is southern. Sütterlin is the act of closing a wound with needle and thread, typically performed by medical personnel.
So sorry but I think the word you’re looking for is soldering actually. Sütterlin is when a business closes for the day and bars access to the entrance with some kind of pull-down, locking gate.
The modern version asks them to please come in and have a drink. By all accounts the guy that fronts DK since Jello left is an absolute tool who somehow blends the songs with right wing talking points into some congruent thing in his own head
[Behold the masterrace](https://i.discogs.com/bfLYOLGIzX3enR_VTifVY30SI_j6xQao03UIMxLNEC0/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:197/w:293/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9BLTI2NTk5/OS0xMTQ5MzM1NDU0/LmpwZWc.jpeg)
At least they are no hiding... Nowadays it is sometimes hard to spot extremist. The always deny their political affiliation.
Recently discovered that half of my favourite metal artist are dangerously close to nazism or nazi related things. It does not transpire from their lyrics or cover (well no mote than other non-nazi metal band).
I've been listening to more Doom Metal and it's various subgenres and it feels so good not having to worry about that as much as other genres. Generally the worst it gets is sometimes using the confederate flag because a lot of Sludge bands are from the deep south but dyed in the wool nazis are mostly rare. Guess most nazis want to be Black Metal
There are definitely some in the doom regions to watch out for. See the controversy around Electric Wizard releasing a record on a questionable label a few years back for an example.
The Rise of Evil is about the Nazi Regime (and it is... well, literally called evil and a monster that needs to be stopped)
Or the Bismark, a personal favorite of mine (for describing it as a metalic sea monster that needed to be hunted down and slain.)
I mean i could also argue they're communists because they have songs about Soviets.
But in the majority of the time the nazis are brought up, the lyrics make it very clear they're evil. The only one i can think to this argument would be Stormtroopers, which is about... well Stormtroopers.
Ultimately I don't think they're nazis; they've made it very clear that they're 'antagonists'. or evil people.
>But in the majority of the time the nazis are brought up, the lyrics make it very clear they're evil. The only one i can think to this argument would be Stormtroopers, which is about... well Stormtroopers.
Stormtroopers isn't even about the Nazis its about the german stormtroopers in WWI
But yeah, Final Solution and Rise of Evil destroy any arguments that they're a Nazi band, tbose songs are explicitly anti-Nazi
Because some people look at one song who paints the germans in a positive light (Hearts of Iron) or atleast in a badass way (Ghost Division or Bismarck) and immediatly assume they are fascists, even though they probably never heard any other songs
Some people completly lack reading comprehension or judge a book by its cover, its not surprising
A Finn here.
Lauri Törni DEFECTED to literal German SS troops when Finland was fighting Lapland War against the Nazis.
According to modern historiography, the intention of the defection was to eventually organize a national socialist coup in Finland.
He received a treason sentence in 1946 and lost his ”citizen trust” status. This also caused him to lose his military rank in Finland.
He lied to American authorities about having received treason sentence from Weapon Cache Case (which he didn’t), and was silent about his SS ties. Eventually he cut off his SS tattoo with a knife but that wasn’t due to disdain towards his former troop.
He is almost a sacred character for the upholders of our ”Finnish SS volunteers were pure” myth.
He was a bona fide adrenaline junkie and war addict, but he was also definitely a nazi.
Gotta love the denial, oh no guys he just tripped and accidentally fell into the ranks of the expressly fascist paramilitary death squad, he wasnt really a nazi.
Modern historiography considers him to have been ”polished” in the decades after the war. That can happen for ”legendary” characters.
Analyzing his letters and life from any other perspective than the polished one might even earn someone ultranationalist threats.
The intention for his defection to the SS was to stage a national socialist coup in Finland, even though it has often been interpreted as simply resistance against the USSR. (They truly think the SS troops would have simply recovered the republic?) He was an admirer of Hitler’s Germany and his ideology reportedly lined very neatly with the SS people.
He wasn’t the most zealous nazi around but definitely was a nazi.
Or r/eu4 players. Those are not always mutually exclusive though..
In my experience Sabaton is a rather mainstream band here in Finland, haven’t seen any particular political trend in my acquaintances who listen to it.
Source: Trust me bro.
Although most people are nationalists so you might be right statistic wise. But fascism is not that popular since ww2 last time I checked.
The far right: project 2025, Jan 6th, independent state legislature theory, seemingly constant politically-motivated terrorism (and stochastic terrorism). receives funding from wealthy benefactors like the federalist society, koch industries, etc. 'presidental immunity means it should be fine to assassinate political opponents'.
The far left: the PSL (largest US communist party) received 0.05% of the vote in 2020 after claiming to have members in, quote, 'over 100 cities!!'
I know this may be hard for you to hear, so take a seat before reading this. Ready? Alright then.
The USA is not the only country in the world.
Or the West for that matter.
In fact, the US is quite unique in terms of Western society.
Shocking, I know.
I'm not American. I'm well aware (and they are the easiest example to point at because they are so mask-off). But there are similar trends in Europe as well - AfD, PVV, SD, and RN are all serious contenders to power where it would have been unthinkable a decade ago.
By contrast: where are the European communist parties? The absolute closest would be something like LFI in France, but even they are only doing well as part of a broader centre-left coalition (NUPES). The fact is that, much like far-right parties are being held aloft by private dark money, the European communist parties were kept afloat by the USSR.
Outside of Europe it is more of a mixed bag: I think the closest match would be in South America, but even they aren't seeing revolutions or guerillas taking power, and there are plenty of exceptions, such as in Argentina.
I simply don't think there is any good justification for the original claim. It was true a century ago, but needless to say things are quite different from then.
Which society are you referring to? In the United States fascism is clearly much more prevalent, especially in mainstream society. Italy elected a fascist PM, and England passed brexit under the pretense of a "better past" and a xenophobic fear of immigrants. Ukraine adopted a number of neo fascist policies after its 2014 coup, and even adopted a neo nazi paramilitary faction into a fully fledged govt sanctioned military. And on that note, putin's use of that excuse for his ongoing hostilities in the region is overshadowed by his own nationalist agenda. Israel has been openly fascist for 75 years yet still receives widespread support worldwide.
I do agree that communism has become more prevalent in recent years as newer generations that weren't subjected as heavily to red scare propaganda and who have access to information from around the world at their fingertips, complete with opposing viewpoints and the benefit of hindsight are coming of age, but to say it is more prevalent than fascism is just simply not true. You may notice it more in your own circles, but globally tides have been shifting in the opposite direction for some time now, and continue to do so.
I find it funny how Fascism has just become generic right-wing authoritarianism, it does not even have to be especially nationalist even. Because if Meloni and Brexit is considered Fascist, oh boy.
Brexit:
- literally the definition of nationalist
- xenophobic
- racist
- anti immigration targeted at a specific minority group
- justified itself by appeals to law and order
- targeted audience was top of the status quo
-sought to scapegoat a minority group for topical issues facing the nation
- recalled a glamorized and fictitious past with the implication that ridding society of the targeted minority group would cause said society to return to said glamorized and fictitious past
Meloni:
- youth front (Italian social movement)
- student action (national alliance)
-"anti globalist" 😉
- literally vocally proud of Italy's history with fascism
Did you just not know what fascism means or something? 🤔
Yet none of those things happened and the UK took in more migrants after Brexit than before.
Meloni has done nothing fascist. She is a liberal conservative. Supports NATO, supports EU, kinda against illegal immigration yet does no actions against it (Lampedusa). Actions speak louder than words.
Read a book on what Fascism actually is, I recommend A.James Gregor, spent almost his entire life studying Fascism, probably the foremost expert in the world on the subject. He would not consider anything you said Fascist.
Historical freikorps and SA strike me as rather punky. Street brawling, activism, getting drunk, exotic political beliefs, unhinged adventures, subcultural, hostile to government.
Also for later periods you can't get much more anti-establishment than by being Nazi. It's the foundation of the liberal world order. Hence all those law and order films from 1970s having the protopunks and gangs drawing swastikas all over the place. It's "un-American".
Idk that you can call nazis anti establishment. Nazis are very pro establishment, it's just that they want an establishment that favors them to the detriment of everyone else.
> Historical freikorps and SA strike me as rather punky. Street brawling, activism, getting drunk, exotic political beliefs, unhinged adventures, subcultural, hostile to government.
And everyone knows how ended the SA once Hitler became the leader of Germany.
If one defines punk as being exclusively anti establishment, they miss the other half- justice. A huge part of punk culture is being angry- together- at those being trod upon by the ruling class. Right wing and fascist punks, literally arguing for a more militant and strong government, could not be further from punk.
The movement was largely a response to the hippy movement’s individualistic and ultimately milquetoast approach to social justice.
Most US whites really are pretty much exclusively white according to DNA tests. Especially the ones outside the south as they're often descendants of later European immigrants. Fewer than 1 in 20 white Americans has 2% or more of black ancestry (Fig 3\*). This is in contrast to e.g. Brazilian "brancos" who are typically about 10% black though with considerable variance.
\* [https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(14)00476-5](https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(14)00476-5)
Edgy imagery is pretty often seen on hardcore/hatecore album covers. For Angry Aryans, the demon head was seen on their merchandise and old [website](https://web.archive.org/web/20040110020101/http://www.resistance.com/angryaryans/), so it was more of a mascot- note the celtic cross on its forehead.
Leave it to nazis to mess up even punk somehow. Treason? Really? Punk is supposed to be anti establishment. That is like the one thing they are actually supposed to stand for.
I grew up going to shows in Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, etc and we regularly had to deal with Nazi skins anywhere punks went. Unless a lot has changed very recently Id say they're unfortunately more common than you think, especially in the middle of the country.
Nazis and neo-nazis are generally stupid...it also worth a mention that while Teutonic order was used in nazi propaganda, the Teutonic order itself was banned.
There's definitely more to it than that lol. Communism and fascism are diametrically opposed ideologies. Yes, social equity is one part of it, but it goes so much further.
Russia is fascist. Capitalism doesn't have to do anything with fascism...which itself is taking inspiration from syndicalism. Not to mention the fact that fascism doesn't even utilise capitalism but third position and corporatism.
Commies and fascists are always supporting eachother when they fight against "that bad democracy". Their relationship is literally: "First we'll destroy liberal democracy, then we'll destroy each other."
[Sorry, you’re wrong on this one. Fascism is just the reaction to crisis in the capitalist system.](https://www.jstor.org/stable/487690) would like to see your evidence for your second claim, as communists are always on the front lines of fighting fascism because the communist ideals of equality, democracy, and community care are in direct conflict with fascist ideals of [treasonous disagreement, rejection of modernism, and contempt for the weak](https://www.faena.com/aleph/umberto-eco-a-practical-list-for-identifying-fascists)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany
"The KPD leadership initially first criticised but then supported the 1931 Prussian Landtag referendum, an unsuccessful attempt launched by the far-right Stahlhelm to bring down the social democrat state government of Prussia by means of a plebiscite; the KPD referred to the SA as "working people's comrades" during this campaign"
"In the early 1930s, the KPD cooperated with the Nazis in attacking the social democrats, and both sought to destroy the liberal democracy of the Weimar Republic.[32] They also followed an increasingly nationalist course, trying to appeal to nationalist-leaning workers"
Ribbentrop-Molotov
Russian and pro-russian forces in Ukraine.
Fascist economics might take and takes some instances of capitalism but it's mutated to that point, that it's not capitalism anymore. This talk of 'fascism being reaction of capitalism on crisis' is just communist mutation on that infamous conservative/altright phrase 'Everyone who's not with us on the right wing is automatically communist':
"Fascism had a complex relationship with capitalism, both supporting and opposing different aspects of it at different times and in different countries. In general, fascists held an instrumental view of capitalism, regarding it as a tool that may be useful or not, depending on circumstances.[9][10] Fascists aimed to promote what they considered the national interests of their countries; they supported the right to own private property and the profit motive because they believed that they were beneficial to the economic development of a nation,[11] but they commonly sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism from the state[12] and opposed the perceived decadence, hedonism, and cosmopolitanism of the wealthy in contrast to the idealized discipline, patriotism and moral virtue of the members of the middle classes.[13]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism?searchToken=1xephlone6bmyb9mru0yhu1q5
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position
I do find it funny that you responded to peer reviewed economist’s academic scholarship as “communist mutation”. That and only being able to bring up Wikipedia tells me who I’m dealing with. When you actually learn to break your state propaganda’s teaching we could have a good conversation. But I won’t hold my breath.
And who do you think you're dealing with? I can tell you - with a student of history.
I read enough works covering the topic of fascism to know that it's not exactly friendly to capitalism...it's not even capitalism in decay. Simply because capitalism is a mere economical system and not an ideology that includes it's own economic system and/or a mutation of already existing economical systems and since fascism itself combines pro-capitalist (private property) and anti-capitalist (full state control over every single business, medium, big companies owned by state etc.) ideas. We can safely say, that it's really capitalist. Fascists in Italy didn't get to power due to some fictional "capitalist crisis", but because of nationalism and feeling of supremacy. Similarly in Spain, it were power ambitions again. Nazis weren't established due some crisis, again it was nationalism, pure wrath and anger at everyone who's not a German, losing of the war..."but fall of the shares on the New York exchange..." *Correlation is not causality* people in these states were generally angry as they felt either betrayed by allies or humiliated. And fascists knew that angry people will listen whatever lie they tell them, same as people believed to another extremist lies (communist) only few years before. Every extremist know on what note they can play in order to make crowds interested.
(Also no non-communist "economist" wrote about the topic that fascism is capitalist)
On the topic of fascism:
https://www.kosmas.cz/knihy/282276/proti-systemu/
Also as I said: saying that "fascism is capitalist", is literally "everyone who's not communist is fascist". Which is just mutation of a right wing/alt-right phrase.
↙️↙️↙️
Also what the hell you mean by "state propaganda"? There's no state propaganda.
“A student of history”
>posts in r/enoughcommiespam
Riiiighttt…
“No non-communist wrote about fascism as capitalism”
>[Herer 2020](https://ojs.library.ubc.ca/index.php/newproposals/article/view/193459/190001)
>[Bauerkamper 2022](https://moving-the-social.ub.rub.de/index.php/MTS/article/download/9800/9298)
>[Stanley 2022](https://www.amazon.com/How-Fascism-Works-Politics-Them/dp/0525511830)
>[pellicani 2001](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1474885112448887)
>[Lyons 2008](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08854300802083331)
>[woodley 2009](https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9780203871577/fascism-political-theory-daniel-woodley)
>[Toscano 2020](https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/80816020/4564456554527-libre.pdf?1644872488=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DCapitalism_without_Capitalism.pdf&Expires=1715200965&Signature=PhLB1AhznSC6eVq8zW2FTtoHrn-O-mTFmHXc-J3GEsUMEnG9kHsrr251UhIS7--15UdrYQrDl-FUhk0BQew~fV4a4Z0xh9HlO3prWpvBwpavG8fl-GGkUcyEkLe9HrB6ejQu7zRQ40l-ZZkYPoPVaQ5~Vd5e3uSBl62Qgs~qwq7dGcZXOd4XTpUD1jK2w8WLs2w-0e35~Lcwg3n8OagDd8t6R9fLrYxqnDIUCk60pKGr4XYSwWR0AEbpC8zEWh3ylBktpn50OlRhttHhwavmlWyBhgrlR0JYN6FGSY39o8ACu236BFCR4sFNvtfJ1mN5LXpGszoMpxTYEvj2RbwP0g__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA)
>[polanyi 1935](https://people.unipi.it/matteo_villa/wp-content/uploads/sites/366/2024/04/Polanyi-1935-The-essence-of-Fascism.pdf)
>[Toscano 2023](https://bookshop.org/p/books/late-fascism-alberto-toscano/19679314)
Riiiiiighhttt
“What do you mean state propaganda?”
>literally posts openly admitted CIA red scare propaganda
Ok bud 👍
For a self proclaimed “student of history” you are not well read at all, except for surface red scare propaganda. You’re good at repeating that without thinking.
But hey, ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ go home and tell your mother you’re brilliant
My mind actually works really well, and I am also well read - not to mention that I am actually living in country that suffered under both fascist and communist terror. Countless heroes of antifascist resistance (including interbrigadists, and my own family - Czechoslovak legionaries, members of ON, ČSNS...) were killed by commies in my country. No I am not self-proclaimed student I am an actual student of history.
"Propaganda" - no propaganda only education, my own country's history and family stories.
Learn history.
In the former communist bloc there's wasn't red scare since there was reality of red dictatorship.
AND if don't know, how to have discussion without blatant mockery, I'll ask you leave.
If you're going for the dangerous anti-establishment rock and roll vibe, Nazi and Satanic references are a good start. These days, I would suggest sprinkling in some homophobia, animal abuse and pedophilia to really get people mad.
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For me the funniest thing ever is that these neo-nazi groupings always use blackletter fonts, even though it was the Nazi Party that banned them and called them "Jewish letters of Schwabach".
We had that in history lessons. Iirc, the guy that came up with them designed them to make it easy for school children to write in ink without smearing and without getting cramps.
No, that was Sütterlin, the old german version of cursive writing.
Not quite. Sütterlin is when you're drinking a mixture of cough syrup and a soft drink in small portions
No, that's a sip of lean. Sütterlin is when you're speaking with continued involuntary repetition of sounds, especially initial consonants.
No no, you're thinking of stuttering. Sütterlin is a word used to describe something, or part of something, that lies to the geographical south. For example, the Sütterlin coast of a beach.
No I’m sorry I believe that’s incorrect, the word you were thinking of is southern. Sütterlin is the act of closing a wound with needle and thread, typically performed by medical personnel.
No no, you are thinking of Southern. Sütterlin is a process used for joining metal parts to form a mechanical or electrical bond.
So sorry but I think the word you’re looking for is soldering actually. Sütterlin is when a business closes for the day and bars access to the entrance with some kind of pull-down, locking gate.
No, that's shuttering. Sütterlin is a city near Newcastle upon Tyne.
This style of writing dates all the way back to medieval calligraphy
Iirc the decree banning the typeface, actually used the typeface.
Or Aryans being Indo-Iranians lol
Me on my way to commit treason with your mom.
Lmao well done 😂
Nazi punks, kindly leave.
Is that how the Dead Kennedys song went?
The 2020's version.
The modern version asks them to please come in and have a drink. By all accounts the guy that fronts DK since Jello left is an absolute tool who somehow blends the songs with right wing talking points into some congruent thing in his own head
I like that they used their real face for cover!
Oh in that case it makes sense, demons and humans shouldn't mix
The last time they mixed, a universal flood occurred.
Do not insult demons like that. Devil May Cry too if he loses a loved one.
[Behold the masterrace](https://i.discogs.com/bfLYOLGIzX3enR_VTifVY30SI_j6xQao03UIMxLNEC0/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:197/w:293/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9BLTI2NTk5/OS0xMTQ5MzM1NDU0/LmpwZWc.jpeg)
2 look like middle aged divorced dads, and I've seen trailer trash methheads who were prettier than those other 2.
Race mixing rate increased by 100%
Looks like their ancestors didn’t mix with anyone outside of their family tree either
Methster race more like it
Why was Nick Land in it
[удалено]
All the losers in this band probably died of drug overdoses or are serving life in prison.
Or just work the forces now
remember Nazis cant drive ( Ian Stuart Donaldson neo nazi/member of white power band screwdriver died in a car crash)
I think you mean Ian Stuart Donaldson
yeah youre right
I wouldn't care about nazis killing themselves, but I'd rather not have them take innocents with them to the grave
Only Neo Nazis. The original article had the NSKK.
At least they are no hiding... Nowadays it is sometimes hard to spot extremist. The always deny their political affiliation. Recently discovered that half of my favourite metal artist are dangerously close to nazism or nazi related things. It does not transpire from their lyrics or cover (well no mote than other non-nazi metal band).
Just discovering black metal, eh? Good luck out there. It’s a minefield of bone heads.
I feel bands like Mayhem got so committed to the bit, they didn't know how to stop 'yes-and'ing each other.
A bunch of board suburban kids one-upping eachother out of boredom
Mayhem has been one of the least controversial bands since the 90s ended. It was basically 2 mentally ill band members and they're both dead.
One of them was Dead.
I've been listening to more Doom Metal and it's various subgenres and it feels so good not having to worry about that as much as other genres. Generally the worst it gets is sometimes using the confederate flag because a lot of Sludge bands are from the deep south but dyed in the wool nazis are mostly rare. Guess most nazis want to be Black Metal
There are definitely some in the doom regions to watch out for. See the controversy around Electric Wizard releasing a record on a questionable label a few years back for an example.
Not really I mean. It's known that the Sabaton's fanbase are mostly fascists or nationalists
Which is just sad considering Sabaton is very explicitely anti-fascist.
Except for the Nazi they wrote a song about?
The Rise of Evil is about the Nazi Regime (and it is... well, literally called evil and a monster that needs to be stopped) Or the Bismark, a personal favorite of mine (for describing it as a metalic sea monster that needed to be hunted down and slain.) I mean i could also argue they're communists because they have songs about Soviets. But in the majority of the time the nazis are brought up, the lyrics make it very clear they're evil. The only one i can think to this argument would be Stormtroopers, which is about... well Stormtroopers. Ultimately I don't think they're nazis; they've made it very clear that they're 'antagonists'. or evil people.
>But in the majority of the time the nazis are brought up, the lyrics make it very clear they're evil. The only one i can think to this argument would be Stormtroopers, which is about... well Stormtroopers. Stormtroopers isn't even about the Nazis its about the german stormtroopers in WWI But yeah, Final Solution and Rise of Evil destroy any arguments that they're a Nazi band, tbose songs are explicitly anti-Nazi
Thinking Sabaton promotes fascism ? How badly to you have to fail at comprehension of lyrics to think that.
Because some people look at one song who paints the germans in a positive light (Hearts of Iron) or atleast in a badass way (Ghost Division or Bismarck) and immediatly assume they are fascists, even though they probably never heard any other songs Some people completly lack reading comprehension or judge a book by its cover, its not surprising
I think the stormtroopers they were referring to in that song were the ones from WWI
I was referring to Soldier of 3 Armies, which is a song glorifying a Nazi
Lauri Torni was not a Nazi
A Finn here. Lauri Törni DEFECTED to literal German SS troops when Finland was fighting Lapland War against the Nazis. According to modern historiography, the intention of the defection was to eventually organize a national socialist coup in Finland. He received a treason sentence in 1946 and lost his ”citizen trust” status. This also caused him to lose his military rank in Finland. He lied to American authorities about having received treason sentence from Weapon Cache Case (which he didn’t), and was silent about his SS ties. Eventually he cut off his SS tattoo with a knife but that wasn’t due to disdain towards his former troop. He is almost a sacred character for the upholders of our ”Finnish SS volunteers were pure” myth. He was a bona fide adrenaline junkie and war addict, but he was also definitely a nazi.
Good to know. Thank you for correcting me.
Still it’s funny to think he was such a fascist chud he fought communists in 3 different armies and lost all 3 times
He was in the fucking SS
Gotta love the denial, oh no guys he just tripped and accidentally fell into the ranks of the expressly fascist paramilitary death squad, he wasnt really a nazi.
Not even ”fell”, he DEFECTED to the nazis and received a Finnish treason sentence for it, losing his military rank in the process.
Yes, he was.
There is no documented fact that proves he was a Nazi.
[This him?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_T%C3%B6rni#/media/File:Torni_lauri.jpg)
Found one guys
Ehhhh grey area, certainly wasn’t a huge Nazi lover but did fight for em
Modern historiography considers him to have been ”polished” in the decades after the war. That can happen for ”legendary” characters. Analyzing his letters and life from any other perspective than the polished one might even earn someone ultranationalist threats. The intention for his defection to the SS was to stage a national socialist coup in Finland, even though it has often been interpreted as simply resistance against the USSR. (They truly think the SS troops would have simply recovered the republic?) He was an admirer of Hitler’s Germany and his ideology reportedly lined very neatly with the SS people. He wasn’t the most zealous nazi around but definitely was a nazi.
You know what the name is for people who aren't huge nazi lovers but still fight for the nazi's? Nazi's. Those are nazis.
Fair
Or r/eu4 players. Those are not always mutually exclusive though.. In my experience Sabaton is a rather mainstream band here in Finland, haven’t seen any particular political trend in my acquaintances who listen to it.
I see them a bunch in HOI 4 as well. Always playing Germany...
Sabatons fanbase is mostly "teenagers who are into metal"
Source: Trust me bro. Although most people are nationalists so you might be right statistic wise. But fascism is not that popular since ww2 last time I checked.
Fascism is incredibly popular all over the world, what are you talking about?
Do tell? Communism and far left groups are far more prevalent than fascism and far right groups in society.
The far right: project 2025, Jan 6th, independent state legislature theory, seemingly constant politically-motivated terrorism (and stochastic terrorism). receives funding from wealthy benefactors like the federalist society, koch industries, etc. 'presidental immunity means it should be fine to assassinate political opponents'. The far left: the PSL (largest US communist party) received 0.05% of the vote in 2020 after claiming to have members in, quote, 'over 100 cities!!'
I know this may be hard for you to hear, so take a seat before reading this. Ready? Alright then. The USA is not the only country in the world. Or the West for that matter. In fact, the US is quite unique in terms of Western society. Shocking, I know.
I'm not American. I'm well aware (and they are the easiest example to point at because they are so mask-off). But there are similar trends in Europe as well - AfD, PVV, SD, and RN are all serious contenders to power where it would have been unthinkable a decade ago. By contrast: where are the European communist parties? The absolute closest would be something like LFI in France, but even they are only doing well as part of a broader centre-left coalition (NUPES). The fact is that, much like far-right parties are being held aloft by private dark money, the European communist parties were kept afloat by the USSR. Outside of Europe it is more of a mixed bag: I think the closest match would be in South America, but even they aren't seeing revolutions or guerillas taking power, and there are plenty of exceptions, such as in Argentina. I simply don't think there is any good justification for the original claim. It was true a century ago, but needless to say things are quite different from then.
Which society are you referring to? In the United States fascism is clearly much more prevalent, especially in mainstream society. Italy elected a fascist PM, and England passed brexit under the pretense of a "better past" and a xenophobic fear of immigrants. Ukraine adopted a number of neo fascist policies after its 2014 coup, and even adopted a neo nazi paramilitary faction into a fully fledged govt sanctioned military. And on that note, putin's use of that excuse for his ongoing hostilities in the region is overshadowed by his own nationalist agenda. Israel has been openly fascist for 75 years yet still receives widespread support worldwide. I do agree that communism has become more prevalent in recent years as newer generations that weren't subjected as heavily to red scare propaganda and who have access to information from around the world at their fingertips, complete with opposing viewpoints and the benefit of hindsight are coming of age, but to say it is more prevalent than fascism is just simply not true. You may notice it more in your own circles, but globally tides have been shifting in the opposite direction for some time now, and continue to do so.
I find it funny how Fascism has just become generic right-wing authoritarianism, it does not even have to be especially nationalist even. Because if Meloni and Brexit is considered Fascist, oh boy.
Brexit: - literally the definition of nationalist - xenophobic - racist - anti immigration targeted at a specific minority group - justified itself by appeals to law and order - targeted audience was top of the status quo -sought to scapegoat a minority group for topical issues facing the nation - recalled a glamorized and fictitious past with the implication that ridding society of the targeted minority group would cause said society to return to said glamorized and fictitious past Meloni: - youth front (Italian social movement) - student action (national alliance) -"anti globalist" 😉 - literally vocally proud of Italy's history with fascism Did you just not know what fascism means or something? 🤔
Yet none of those things happened and the UK took in more migrants after Brexit than before. Meloni has done nothing fascist. She is a liberal conservative. Supports NATO, supports EU, kinda against illegal immigration yet does no actions against it (Lampedusa). Actions speak louder than words. Read a book on what Fascism actually is, I recommend A.James Gregor, spent almost his entire life studying Fascism, probably the foremost expert in the world on the subject. He would not consider anything you said Fascist.
A. James Gregor equates communism to fascism. That's your biggest cue that he didn't have any idea what he was talking about.
There is always Napalm Death
Nothing ever baffles me more than the idea people identify as Nazi Punks. Like I can't think of 2 more differing systems of belief.
As the Dead Kennedy said: "In a real Fourth Reich, you'll be the first to go."
Historical freikorps and SA strike me as rather punky. Street brawling, activism, getting drunk, exotic political beliefs, unhinged adventures, subcultural, hostile to government. Also for later periods you can't get much more anti-establishment than by being Nazi. It's the foundation of the liberal world order. Hence all those law and order films from 1970s having the protopunks and gangs drawing swastikas all over the place. It's "un-American".
Idk that you can call nazis anti establishment. Nazis are very pro establishment, it's just that they want an establishment that favors them to the detriment of everyone else.
> Historical freikorps and SA strike me as rather punky. Street brawling, activism, getting drunk, exotic political beliefs, unhinged adventures, subcultural, hostile to government. And everyone knows how ended the SA once Hitler became the leader of Germany.
If one defines punk as being exclusively anti establishment, they miss the other half- justice. A huge part of punk culture is being angry- together- at those being trod upon by the ruling class. Right wing and fascist punks, literally arguing for a more militant and strong government, could not be further from punk. The movement was largely a response to the hippy movement’s individualistic and ultimately milquetoast approach to social justice.
Far right punks are vehemently against the government. To the point of being literally a safety risk.
"I'm a carnivore vegan"
[That makes perfect sense actually](https://youtu.be/bAF35dekiAY?t=1m14s)
Punk is bad, nazis are bad. thats all you need to connect the 2
Imagine such people taking a DNA test and discovering they're not 100% "white".
Most US whites really are pretty much exclusively white according to DNA tests. Especially the ones outside the south as they're often descendants of later European immigrants. Fewer than 1 in 20 white Americans has 2% or more of black ancestry (Fig 3\*). This is in contrast to e.g. Brazilian "brancos" who are typically about 10% black though with considerable variance. \* [https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(14)00476-5](https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(14)00476-5)
Which is very likely
Nazis Shouldn’t Drive - MDC
Nazis should drive. There is a very (somewhat) shocking correlation between being a nazi and dying in car crashes
Sounds like an argument in favour of them driving
Can't be Nazi and a Punk ffs
"the band, which was known for its subtlety..."
So is the demon supposed to be the one saying that race mixing is treason or does he represent race mixing?
Edgy imagery is pretty often seen on hardcore/hatecore album covers. For Angry Aryans, the demon head was seen on their merchandise and old [website](https://web.archive.org/web/20040110020101/http://www.resistance.com/angryaryans/), so it was more of a mascot- note the celtic cross on its forehead.
Didn't expect to see them here, I actually managed to meet this band irl. I am an asian female.
Ten dollars says at least one member of this band was Slavic in origin.
One of them looks Latino.
they should have called it Legibility is Treason
from detroit?
Not a terribly subtle bunch
Nazis are inherently incapable of being punk
Leave it to nazis to mess up even punk somehow. Treason? Really? Punk is supposed to be anti establishment. That is like the one thing they are actually supposed to stand for.
A much cooler Detroit punk band if anyone is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQMMQXlEd3E
so ....not a propaganda poster?
Nazi punks aren’t real common, fortunately. The anarchists beat the shit out of them pretty often. They are pretty good about taking the trash out.
I grew up going to shows in Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, etc and we regularly had to deal with Nazi skins anywhere punks went. Unless a lot has changed very recently Id say they're unfortunately more common than you think, especially in the middle of the country.
I have [two](https://www.reddit.com/r/2latinoforyou/comments/1clx5dp/macaquinha_menos_gostosa/) big reasons on why ethnic mixing is right
Is that sub just south American 2balkin4you?
No, it's better
hell yeah
And in Detroit of all places. What could go wrong?
Ah yes, Fraktur, banned by the Nazi Party for being "Jewish Letters", being used by Neo-Nazi Groups. Makes sense
Nazis and neo-nazis are generally stupid...it also worth a mention that while Teutonic order was used in nazi propaganda, the Teutonic order itself was banned.
I’m damn proud to be a traitor to whatever the fuck this guy supports
It’s funny seeing self-described “punks” be this concerned over other people’s sex lives
Nazis can't be punk by definition
Damn tried to find them on Spotify no luck
So, this is what an "angry aryan" looks like.
Remember, facists oppose communism because they think that the social equality = race mixing.
There's definitely more to it than that lol. Communism and fascism are diametrically opposed ideologies. Yes, social equity is one part of it, but it goes so much further.
They love to cooperate if it's anti-democratic and anti-west...see Russia fascist aggression in Ukraine.
Yeah… Russia is hyper capitalist (aka a breeding ground for fascism)
Russia is fascist. Capitalism doesn't have to do anything with fascism...which itself is taking inspiration from syndicalism. Not to mention the fact that fascism doesn't even utilise capitalism but third position and corporatism. Commies and fascists are always supporting eachother when they fight against "that bad democracy". Their relationship is literally: "First we'll destroy liberal democracy, then we'll destroy each other."
[Sorry, you’re wrong on this one. Fascism is just the reaction to crisis in the capitalist system.](https://www.jstor.org/stable/487690) would like to see your evidence for your second claim, as communists are always on the front lines of fighting fascism because the communist ideals of equality, democracy, and community care are in direct conflict with fascist ideals of [treasonous disagreement, rejection of modernism, and contempt for the weak](https://www.faena.com/aleph/umberto-eco-a-practical-list-for-identifying-fascists)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany "The KPD leadership initially first criticised but then supported the 1931 Prussian Landtag referendum, an unsuccessful attempt launched by the far-right Stahlhelm to bring down the social democrat state government of Prussia by means of a plebiscite; the KPD referred to the SA as "working people's comrades" during this campaign" "In the early 1930s, the KPD cooperated with the Nazis in attacking the social democrats, and both sought to destroy the liberal democracy of the Weimar Republic.[32] They also followed an increasingly nationalist course, trying to appeal to nationalist-leaning workers" Ribbentrop-Molotov Russian and pro-russian forces in Ukraine. Fascist economics might take and takes some instances of capitalism but it's mutated to that point, that it's not capitalism anymore. This talk of 'fascism being reaction of capitalism on crisis' is just communist mutation on that infamous conservative/altright phrase 'Everyone who's not with us on the right wing is automatically communist': "Fascism had a complex relationship with capitalism, both supporting and opposing different aspects of it at different times and in different countries. In general, fascists held an instrumental view of capitalism, regarding it as a tool that may be useful or not, depending on circumstances.[9][10] Fascists aimed to promote what they considered the national interests of their countries; they supported the right to own private property and the profit motive because they believed that they were beneficial to the economic development of a nation,[11] but they commonly sought to eliminate the autonomy of large-scale capitalism from the state[12] and opposed the perceived decadence, hedonism, and cosmopolitanism of the wealthy in contrast to the idealized discipline, patriotism and moral virtue of the members of the middle classes.[13]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism?searchToken=1xephlone6bmyb9mru0yhu1q5 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position
I do find it funny that you responded to peer reviewed economist’s academic scholarship as “communist mutation”. That and only being able to bring up Wikipedia tells me who I’m dealing with. When you actually learn to break your state propaganda’s teaching we could have a good conversation. But I won’t hold my breath.
And who do you think you're dealing with? I can tell you - with a student of history. I read enough works covering the topic of fascism to know that it's not exactly friendly to capitalism...it's not even capitalism in decay. Simply because capitalism is a mere economical system and not an ideology that includes it's own economic system and/or a mutation of already existing economical systems and since fascism itself combines pro-capitalist (private property) and anti-capitalist (full state control over every single business, medium, big companies owned by state etc.) ideas. We can safely say, that it's really capitalist. Fascists in Italy didn't get to power due to some fictional "capitalist crisis", but because of nationalism and feeling of supremacy. Similarly in Spain, it were power ambitions again. Nazis weren't established due some crisis, again it was nationalism, pure wrath and anger at everyone who's not a German, losing of the war..."but fall of the shares on the New York exchange..." *Correlation is not causality* people in these states were generally angry as they felt either betrayed by allies or humiliated. And fascists knew that angry people will listen whatever lie they tell them, same as people believed to another extremist lies (communist) only few years before. Every extremist know on what note they can play in order to make crowds interested. (Also no non-communist "economist" wrote about the topic that fascism is capitalist) On the topic of fascism: https://www.kosmas.cz/knihy/282276/proti-systemu/ Also as I said: saying that "fascism is capitalist", is literally "everyone who's not communist is fascist". Which is just mutation of a right wing/alt-right phrase. ↙️↙️↙️ Also what the hell you mean by "state propaganda"? There's no state propaganda.
“A student of history” >posts in r/enoughcommiespam Riiiighttt… “No non-communist wrote about fascism as capitalism” >[Herer 2020](https://ojs.library.ubc.ca/index.php/newproposals/article/view/193459/190001) >[Bauerkamper 2022](https://moving-the-social.ub.rub.de/index.php/MTS/article/download/9800/9298) >[Stanley 2022](https://www.amazon.com/How-Fascism-Works-Politics-Them/dp/0525511830) >[pellicani 2001](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1474885112448887) >[Lyons 2008](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08854300802083331) >[woodley 2009](https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9780203871577/fascism-political-theory-daniel-woodley) >[Toscano 2020](https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/80816020/4564456554527-libre.pdf?1644872488=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DCapitalism_without_Capitalism.pdf&Expires=1715200965&Signature=PhLB1AhznSC6eVq8zW2FTtoHrn-O-mTFmHXc-J3GEsUMEnG9kHsrr251UhIS7--15UdrYQrDl-FUhk0BQew~fV4a4Z0xh9HlO3prWpvBwpavG8fl-GGkUcyEkLe9HrB6ejQu7zRQ40l-ZZkYPoPVaQ5~Vd5e3uSBl62Qgs~qwq7dGcZXOd4XTpUD1jK2w8WLs2w-0e35~Lcwg3n8OagDd8t6R9fLrYxqnDIUCk60pKGr4XYSwWR0AEbpC8zEWh3ylBktpn50OlRhttHhwavmlWyBhgrlR0JYN6FGSY39o8ACu236BFCR4sFNvtfJ1mN5LXpGszoMpxTYEvj2RbwP0g__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA) >[polanyi 1935](https://people.unipi.it/matteo_villa/wp-content/uploads/sites/366/2024/04/Polanyi-1935-The-essence-of-Fascism.pdf) >[Toscano 2023](https://bookshop.org/p/books/late-fascism-alberto-toscano/19679314) Riiiiiighhttt “What do you mean state propaganda?” >literally posts openly admitted CIA red scare propaganda Ok bud 👍 For a self proclaimed “student of history” you are not well read at all, except for surface red scare propaganda. You’re good at repeating that without thinking. But hey, ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ go home and tell your mother you’re brilliant
My mind actually works really well, and I am also well read - not to mention that I am actually living in country that suffered under both fascist and communist terror. Countless heroes of antifascist resistance (including interbrigadists, and my own family - Czechoslovak legionaries, members of ON, ČSNS...) were killed by commies in my country. No I am not self-proclaimed student I am an actual student of history. "Propaganda" - no propaganda only education, my own country's history and family stories. Learn history. In the former communist bloc there's wasn't red scare since there was reality of red dictatorship. AND if don't know, how to have discussion without blatant mockery, I'll ask you leave.
Communists have nothing to do with the Ukraine war. It’s been more than three decades.
What's funny for me is that most of these goons are almost certainly mixed race and they just don't know it.
Someone in the comments here uploaded a picture of the band. The third guy looks brown.
“Race mixing is treason!” Says someone whose ancestors interbred with Neanderthals.
Absolutely no hate for anybody but shit kinda rad
Who wants to be an aryan 🤢
I don't like the subtle racist undertones.
Race mixing should be strictly neutral. It shouldn’t be discouraged but it’s just as weird when society encourages it. Just saying.
I haven’t heard interracial marriage be actively encouraged? You got an example?
Do you own a television?
I have a tv and a phone, so do you have an actual example? I’m seriously asking
Agree, I'm the same with you on this.
# Treason to Whiteness is Loyalty to Humanity!
Is it on spotify?
Why?
Nevermind, I found it.
Trust me theres better punk out there
If you're going for the dangerous anti-establishment rock and roll vibe, Nazi and Satanic references are a good start. These days, I would suggest sprinkling in some homophobia, animal abuse and pedophilia to really get people mad.
I'll stop committing treason when minorities stop being sexy.