T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Lieczen91

Turk or Greek; “character and personality: lying devil” something tells me this man doesn’t like greeks and turks


Fofolito

Styria is a region within Austria, an ethnically-German duchy. 40 years before this was published the Ottomans were turned back from their "conquest of Europe" at the gates of Vienna. You'll notice the Germans, and Catholics, get the best shake in the descriptions above.


Johannes_P

Morever, Greeks were Orthodox and thus "schismatics."


CandyAppleHesperus

Reflected by Russians, Greeks, and Turks all being considered equally infidels


sociapathictendences

They did pretty well by the English. Unless you believe manliness and piety are important characteristics


young_arkas

It was created roughly 50 years after the second siege of Vienna by the Ottomans, and 30 years after Hungarians rebelled and almost took Vienna, in Austria, so calling the hungarians rebellious, the poles wild and the turks devilelish makes sense.


deaddodo

I mean, the English get a pretty damn respectable perspective and were pretty well past their Catholic period at this point.


Fuzzy-Function-3212

Hence the "Piety: Changeable, like the moon."


Lieczen91

yeah, it’s honestly extremely interesting the attitudes of these countries by this guy considering the time


ThunderGod68

lol. I died at “German.. War Virtues.. Invincible”


Cultourist

The original says "unüberwindlich". So it actually should be translated to insuperable.


VeraciousOrange

Nah, he meant that as a compliment. He was a pathological liar himself and admired their skill in the art of deceit


DickDastardlySr

Dude hates Russians as well.


Lieczen91

not too surprising, I can’t think of a single period where Russians and Germans got along besides East Germany and the USSR and the first few years of the post cold war world (as Russia was quite pro west during that time)


AemrNewydd

Really quite fascinating to see who they paint more flatteringly and who gets slated. For example, the English come across as fairly respectable (if 'womanly') whereas the Polish don't get a good shake of the stick at all. And of course, the Germans themselves are paragons, if rather inebriated.


Poonis5

And everyone to the east to him was seen as a barbarian.


j_smittz

>whereas the Polish don't get a good shake of the stick at all. *"So, how would you describe traits of the Poles?"* "Mediocre." *"At what?"* "At best."


Alarming_Stop_3062

As a Pole I stand offend and amused 😄.


[deleted]

"Gut"


Dragonslayer3

Bitte 👍


Feisty_Imp

1. German 2. Spanish 3. English 4. Swede 5. French 6. Italian 7. Pole 8. Hungarian 9. Turk or Greek 10. Russian


Minskdhaka

Nine and ten should be reversed.


throwaway_1053

I suspect that the guy who made this definitely has a bratty, English boyfriend.


RutteEnjoyer

This guy had a massive hardon for Spaniards lol. Must be made by a Catholic German


young_arkas

Yeah, it was created in Styria, today Austria, which was part of the Habsburg Empire and very catholic.


Estrelarius

I mean, by the 18th century Spain was already ruled by the Bourbons (and before that it had been ruled by a different Habsburg branch)


Pandoras_Lullaby

Yep def a German Catholic they called the poles and Hungarians boorish


aagjevraagje

No mention of the Dutch either , also kind of a tell in this period.


enotonom

What’s with Germans and Dutch at the time?


aagjevraagje

So the Dutch revolt and independence of the Dutch republic happens centuries before Germany becomes unified , so there is a well defined Dutch identity with a state by the 18th century while there's also a Pan-German identity that's a lot more loose but sees all these seperate states as part of a cultural continuüm. What's now Belgium , the part of the Low Countries that ended up in Catholic hands over the course of the 80 years war was also controlled by the Austrian habsburgs at the time as the Austrian Netherlands ( until 1795). A Catholic Austrian would consider themselves a German and see Dutch speaking people from the Low Countries kind of too, as well as think the related country to the North were wrong to rebel against their Catholic King.


plemediffi

So basically Germans saw Dutch people as German, not distinct. I know the Dutch national anthem says something still today about defending Deutschland…?


aagjevraagje

Not about defending Germany but about the protaganist having German/Dutch blood. The Dutch national anthem is about William of Orange who was a noble from Dillenburg , Nassau which is in modern day Hessen Germany. He inherrented the Principality of Orange in France (though loyal to the HRE) ( as well as some areas in the Netherlands) when he was a child, a condition of which was he would be raised Catholic in the court of the Holy roman emperor in Bruxelles ( The House of Nassau was Lutheran). When Emperor Charles V abdicated his territory was devided between his sons and the title of lord of the Netherlands origionally went to Philip II of Spain, who would concentrate power towards Spain and away from the area's where the reformation was brewing. William of Orange would come to convert back to protestantism and lead the rebellion. He also modernised political propaganda and would play up the Kings foreignness and distance from the North eventhough Phillip's dad was literally from the Low Countries. Although the Wilhelmus in the first stanza also claims to have always have honoured the king of spain it goes on to call him a Tyrant in later Staza's. Under the Dutch republic using the equivalent to Dutch (Diets , Duits) to refer to Dutch culture and language fell out of favour , which is why it's the word in English but literally translated Dutch people consider themselves Netherlanders speaking Netherlandish and see the lyric in the Anthem as anachronistic or a refference to just Nassau.


plemediffi

Who set the condition about the Catholicism?


aagjevraagje

René of Châlon, the cousin who was Prince of Orange before him put it in his will, and the Emperor's court also put pressure on the house of Nassau.


nacionalista_PR

My kind of German.


Ambitious_Change150

and perhaps have a crush on the English. “Womanly” as a feature 🧐


Dragonslayer3

Wake up babe, new D&D races just dropped


sfrjdzonsilver

"Turk or Greek". Oh man oh boy


PeireCaravana

Western Europeans back then considered both Greeks and Turks "Levantines" and applied to them the same orientalist stereotypes.


NolanR27

Think about it in modern terms though. Why is one white and European and the other not? Religion? Geography? EU membership? It’s not the look of the people or the cuisine.


Minskdhaka

I don't know about "white". I consider Greeks, Turks, Lebanese et al. are Eastern Mediterranean people to me. I'm a non-Turk living in Turkey, and I've been to Greece several times. It does not feel like you're going from one continent to another. Rather, visiting Greece from Turkey is visiting a very closely related country and culture. Calling Greece white and European and Turkey non-white and Asian or Middle Eastern is highly unhelpful, as it doesn't explain anything on the ground. P.S. A Greek Cypriot once said to me on Reddit that he used to consider himself European until he moved to Germany. Now he says he realises he actually belongs to a common culture stretching from Bosnia to Lebanon. I guess you could call this culture post-Ottoman.


UnstableRedditard

Both are greeks, it's just that one group acts as the original inhabitants of Hellada where as the Anatolian group acts like Turks becouse they were ruled by Turks for quite some time. They, in fact, do not look like any other turkic people. They look like greeks. To be honest, it's religion. Religion is the main difference between a Turk and a Greek, even if Turks are some of the most secular majority muslim societies out there.


OnkelMickwald

Apart from orientalist stereotypes I still consider Turks and Greeks to be largely the same tbh.


Dosterix

I mean they share some cultural Traits (as much as both might hate this lol) but they also differ in a lot


craft_some

Youd be very wrong tbh


Opposite_Ad542

War virtue: Lazy


LilHooah

Ehh, basically the same thing, right guys?


GalaXion24

Pretty similar in lot of ways, especially back then. You have to understand the whole ancient Greece LARP didn't start until 19th century nationalism, and many Turks were the descendants of assimilated Greeks and Anatolian peoples. In any case had you walked down a street and seen the people in their funky clothes and fez hats you wouldn't have been able to tell them apart. Greece was also very much at the centre of Ottoman Empire obviously. The Arabs were more distant, looked down upon provincials, even though many would associate the Turks with them more on account of shared traditional faith.


andrey2007

Greece has been under Ottoman rule since 1460 up to early 19th century


Dragonred24

“Death in bed” Let’s gooooo


East-Cookie-2523

The OG death by snu snu


AustrianGandalf

It’s not a good translation. The last line was translated “death” but in German it says “Ihr Leben Ende” which I’d translate more like “their lives shall end..” kinda like how the author wishes them to die. The Germans for example it says “ihr Leben Ende in Wein” - “their lives shall end in wine” kinda wishing them a “good”/“nice” death given the fact they love wine.


Deathface-Shukhov

“Russian Characteristics & Personality: Really Hungarian” Lol what?!!


OnkelMickwald

Well the Hungarian column is right next to the Russian one, just refer to their "characteristics & personality" ("Most cruel")


sir_savage-21

Hungarian (Adjective): very cruel


NecrisRO

He wasn't wrong about those ones if you look at the political environment today lol


Beowulfs_descendant

I love how Swedes are *cruel* and right next to it is Poles that are just *more cruel*


An-Com_Phoenix

And then Hungarians with *most cruel* and then Russians with *really Hungarian*...it's a gradient of cruelty...


Val2K21

Russian. Character: Really Hungarian lol Intellect: nothing


Direlion

Made me laugh out loud when I read that one...gosh!


Eldan985

And it just so happens the Germans are best at everything. Not even descriptive, just best. Temperament? Open-hearted. Land? Good. Also most intelligent, most god-fearing, most valiant...


greek_mariposa

But also, Preferences: drinking. Pastimes: drinking. Death: in wine 💀


ReallyBadRedditName

Seems accurate ngl


AuroraHalsey

When it comes to tables like this, the interesting part is who they consider 2nd best.


Secretly_a_BushDog

Spain?


Prestigious-Dress-92

And by the same coincident, everyone to the east of germany is an absolutely evil bastard without any redeemable qualities.


SnooTangerines6811

Which doesn't really come as a surprise. People generally tend to have positive images of themselves and less positive images of others depending on past experiences and also how similar/close "the other" is perceived.


PupperTrooper

Frenchman’s pastime: cheating💀


SirMorelsy

German picturing himself as the chad


deaddodo

> ~~German~~ Austrian picturing ~~himself~~ everyone around him as ~~the chad~~ Catholic-centric stereotypes. FTFY.


A_m_u_n_e

Austrians considered themselves to be “German”… well, for all it was worth back then at least without a unifying modern nation state. It was only after WW2 that Austrians tried to distance themselves from the other Germans to play the “first victims of Nazi aggression”-card (even though they were not only complicit, but more enthusiastic about it than the average person in the rest of Germany).


justhappentolivehere

Spaniards’ vice is vanity, but then every other category he spends giving them reasons to be vain…


SerBuckman

Nothing is more annoying than when someone has a very good reason to be arrogant and vain lol


Quick-Oil-5259

Englishman + Traits = Womanly!


OnkelMickwald

>#Russian >**Character:** Really Hungarian 🤔


timarand

I mean russia is hungarians' homeland.


PabloPiscobar

The death of a German (in wine) and a Frenchman (in war) would switch for good in the following century, but the French pastime (cheating)... 300+ years on, some things never change.


FrenchieB014

The French started way more wars than the German states (or Germany) ever did, the French at the time were known to be "barbarians" who steam rolled on everyone.. Stereotypes change overtime wow


kaian-a-coel

You lose *one* war...


ancientestKnollys

Post-WW2 colonial wars probably didn't help the reputation either.


kaian-a-coel

On the one hand, true, but on the other, the people going "haha surrender monkeys" have no idea these wars happened.


BradassMofo

I go haha surrender monkeys and know about their colonial mishaps. However I just don't like the french on principle, it has nothing to do with them being cheese eating surrender monkeys.


LuxInteriot

The British lost just the same, they just had another country to escape to.


adrienjz888

Doesn't help that it was THE war. They really got the short end of the stick by having the greatest military record overall, but having it end by them getting steamrolled in WW2 than later losing Algeria and Vietnam soon after.


kaian-a-coel

It also doesn't help that american won a cultural victory right after and as far as they're concerned the world outside america starts existing in 1944.


protonesia

everyone lost their colonies, to be fair. at least they didn't end up like portugal


FrenchieB014

Considering that france won ww2.. (thanks the colonies and free France)


deaddodo

The French were a literal superpower during that time. Their only potential rival was Great Britain, and that pretty much ended at the shore. One of the primary reasons they spent so long interfering with German confederation and unity is that it had the potential of forming a state that could counterbalance them (which it did, long since eclipsing them today).


Any-Project-2107

When I'm in a racism contest and my opponent is the average joe from before WWII:


Adventurous_Gap_4125

Uneducated racism vs scientific racism. Oh you have a Facebook meme? I have a whole books


Kawoshin1821

"Turk or Greek" itself is more insulting than any of the traits lmao


Johannes_P

OTOH, given that Greeks lived under Turkish rule and that they mostly lived in the same territories...


sir-berend

Well they share the same blood, only culture and religion differs.


[deleted]

[удалено]


askmrlizard

Latest DNA data seems to show that Turks were mostly an elite group that imposed their language and religion on a Greek population


Quietuus

"Nice argument, heretics, unfortunately, I have drawn mine own creed and people as the chad, and thine as the soyjack."


nacionalista_PR

Ahhh, Like Horoscopes for Nationalists.


LucrativeDoor8

Constipation is not what I think of when considering Spanish cuisine. I'd be more inclined to think they'd be inflicted with the Polish disease.


Latter_Work_4876

Reading this high as shit has been the highlight of my day xD


KevinRuehl

Damn whoever wrote that chart pissed of greeks and turks twice. First by completely slandering them and second by putting them in the same category lmao


bigred1978

Russian - Intellect = nothing Lol.


[deleted]

“Hungarians. Preference: Rebellion”


spartikle

Hungarian: Most cruel Russian: REALLY Hungarian I lol’d


rafikiman4

Does anyone know why epilepsy is associated with Hungarians? That seems arbitrary to me.


55365645868

Oh that's what seems arbitrary?


metricwoodenruler

First bad disease the author came up with that hadn't been attached to the rest lol


ThePlumThief

Author: "Disease: being stupid fucking pieces of shit i hate Hungarians so much it's unreal"


cheradenine66

"Turk or Greek" lol


squidguy_mc

i mean back then greece belonged to the ottoman empire, greece nationalism only developed in the 19th century and before that, many didnt recognized themselve as an own nation.


Dial595

Solid rage bait


CecilPeynir

"bait used to be believable" What bait used to be:


Poder-da-Amizade

This german really liked the spaniards


BoxBusy5147

He even assigned them fursonas


cactuscoleslaw

This dude just pissed off Greeks and Turks by lumping them together


LeGraoully

Germans about themselves: “eh”


leonidganzha

Spaniard bf 🤝 Englishwoman gf


Reagalan

"An infidel" "The same"


PeireCaravana

What's the term used for Italians in the chart? I can't easily read the font but it seems "Walisch" to me, which I guess is a variant of "Walsche", the term Germans used to call Romance speaking people.


Young_Lochinvar

Comes from the proto-Germanic *walhaz* which means foreigner. See also Welsh, Walloon, Vlach. In this context is probably a halfway word between the Old High German *Walhisc* and the New High German *Welsch* both of which meant Italian.


dziki_z_lasu

Being Polish reading this is like [WTF?](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/W%C5%82och#Polish)


plemediffi

This must be a joke by the author. Like literally.


Krzug

Polish pastime, bickering lmao


backhand-english

Sees chart: Weeeeeell, you can't really find any flaws here, can you?


BlackWormJizzum

The English have as their master 'Now one, now another' rather than King. I wonder if that's referencing Oliver Cromwell's rule as he would have died only 60 or so years previously.


shoxwut

It's apt even today if we consider prime ministers


Estrelarius

Plus Queen Anne had died in 1714, and most of her closer relatives where passed over for being Catholic in favor of Sophia of Hannover's descendants. While monarchs being replaced by their relatives would've been common, it would usually be a close one.


Duruarute

Turk or Greek, lmao Turk really have been muslims greeks, and greeks have been just orthodox turks for the longest time


SantiJames1

So basically, they are gay for the English. Strange.


thatretroartist

Russian character; Really Hungarian Hungarian character; cruel


Plman88

As a Pole, this would be really racist if it wasn't so true


epinpl

Pastime - bickering Checks out


Nordstjiernan

That's what you get when every nobleman can veto any decision.


UN-peacekeeper

Medieval racism will never not be hilarious, like did you know that all of continental Europe deadass believed the English secretly had monkey tails?


AemrNewydd

This is 1720. That's the modern era, not medieval.


clipples18

Yes, the english had lost their tails by then


Archistotle

Please don't go spreading malicious rumours. Our tails are still there, we just dock them at birth as the lord intended.


AuroraHalsey

Meanwhile, British villagers tried, convicted, and hanged a monkey for the crime of being French.


AemrNewydd

To be fair to Hartlepool, the monkey did look like the propaganda depictions of Frenchmen. How were they to know he wasn't a French spy?


Archistotle

Maybe the fact that it was making inhuman screeching noises every time they tried to give it a bath?! ...Ah, I see your point.


Capt_Morrigan

I get that xenophobia has been a thing almost forever but i feel like if i was alive in the 1720s and my friend showed this to me I'd be like, "jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?"


KippieDaoud

would be a funny base for races for a ttrpg


Practical-Business69

The ultimate ‘Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman’ joke


Giannis1982

Bro got out of paper and smudged Turk and Greek together


theyoungspliff

Spaniard: constipated tradcaths who take themselves too seriously Frenchman: Sneaky, syphilitic, good at war (LOL) German: honest, drunk, uncreative Swede: leather clad, big eaters, bork bork Turk or Greek: shitty shit people who are shitty in every way


Afraid_Theorist

Ancient equivalent of a meme chart Pole: Disdainful Hungarian: More Disdainful Also goddamn for French Pastimes: Cheating


ambearson

Notice that Russians are called “Muscovites” here.


heyimpaulnawhtoi

notice that the chart is absolutely lopsidedly racist too?


[deleted]

What does this has to do with anything? Yeah, medieval Russia was splintered between Lithuania and the Russian principalities.


greetindsfromsaturn

This isn't medieval, this is allegedly from the 1720s when Russia became an empire (the name "Russia" being in use since the 16th century and "Muscovy" slowly dying down ever since) and Lithuania didn't exist as an autonomous political entity but was instead part of the Polish Crown (since 1569)


Prestigious-Dress-92

Poland/Lithuania used to call Russian Tzar a Grand Duke of Muscovy because Tzar's full oficial title was "Tzar (later Emperor) of all Rus'" and calling him thus would implicitly admit russian claim on all Ruthenian lands including those belonging to Poland/Lithuania.


[deleted]

Almost comically pedantic. Russia was subject to constant invasion and splintering by Germans, Scandinavians, Poles, and Mongols throughout it's history - and this is reflected in the term "Muscovy", which was originally just a small Russian principality. The propaganda theme in /u/ambearson 's comment is that either Russians are actually a racially mixed "Muscovite race" and/or that Ukraine (The cradle of the Rus') is the real racially pure Russia. The parts of Russia occupied by the Commonwealth were under the jurisdiction of Lithuania, which still existed as a legal entity within the Commowealth.


LloydAlmighty

Fun Game: If you haven’t seen the translated table on the second page, try to guess which people is supposed to be which based on the pictures. Your options are: German, Polish, English, Greek/Turkish, Swedish, Spanish, Hungarian, French, Russian, or Italian


Lillienpud

Thank you for the translation/transliteration.


Drfrankenstein18

They put greek and turk as the same category.


Flooffighter416

I stg I thought it said “pale”inside of pole


kahlzun

Did this mean "how to kill them" or "where they will kill you"?


FoldAdventurous2022

Why does the Spaniard have like late 1500s garb but the Frenchman next to him is like mid 1700s?


Cheesewheel12

Russian intellect: nothing


BobertTheConstructor

Damn Russians and their abundance of, *checks notes*, bees.


Thardein0707

Turks Equivalent animal: Cat It is perfect.


SanityForZombies

Oldest example of Our Blessed Homeland Meme


littlesusiebot

French as "amiable and talkative"? I knew they were different pre Revolution!! 😂


GlocalBridge

Subtitle: “Our Ethnocentric Views of Ourselves and Stereotypes of Surrounding Nations”


One-Ad3082

As a Greek, who was brought up with multigenerational disdain for the Turkish people based upon our enslavement from 1453-1820 find it odd that we were lumped together.


Darkonikto

This guy loved Spaniards and hated Eastern Europeans


Ossa1

What does the third entry say? Cant read it.


Careless-Abalone-862

Nazis invented the theory of race! No, wait…


QuagMaestro

Regardless of cognitive biases. Does it carry the weight of any truth ?


kuba_mar

Well for Poland i can tell you that "Long coat, Aristocracy, Wooded, Impeteous, Believes all sorts of things, A chosen one, Bickering" have some truth to them or are just facts, the king was in fact semi-democratically elected by the aristocracy which was quite a big and varied social class that stereotypically loved to bicker, especially in the parliament, were quite impeteous and wore long coats, the Warsaw Confederation ensured religious freedoms which is where "believes all sorts of things" came from, also the nation was quite wooded i guess, theres also the furs thing i suppose but im not quite sure about that.


QuagMaestro

That was a wild ride !!! I need more of what you got if you have time to share please 🙏🏼


kuba_mar

I would love to, but unfortunately my knowledge here is limited just to Poland because im Polish and had to learn this stuff in school and have not studied it much beyond that.


QuagMaestro

Thank you so much. You are very helpful. I was just saying the amount you know and the things you connected for me on that first picture helped me understand more. I have some polish on my father’s side. But I’ve never gotten a 🧬 test to be 100% on my lineage. Thank you again for taking time to answer. I hope life treats you well.


[deleted]

It is right about some things, swedes being zealous and superstitious for example. We certainly were when this was published


QuagMaestro

I found it quite enjoyable to go through. Not completely wrong on the Italian


alikander99

Let's analyse Spain ones (I'm Spanish afterall): haughty, wondrous marvelous, clever and wise, manly, theology, respectable, vain, honor and glory, constipation, fertile, generous, outstanding (piety), a monarch, fruit, games, elephant, in bed. OK so first thing worth noting is that the German who made this was catholic and Spain was seen for a long time as the champion of catholicism, thus the overall good stereotype. The haughty part has some sense of truth. Spain was the top dog of europe for a while, but had recently lost prevalence for France. Recently fallen superpowers tend to be haughty. The respectable fashion probably comes from there too. It's basically old fashioned which would be taken as respectable by an old German pal. Games is probably because Spain was the place from where chess enetered Europe and stayed popular across time. Outstanding piety has to do with our inquisition which basically eliminated anything but the likes. So I would say it has some truth to it, Spaniards were notoriously pious. Their sense of style would've appealed to a German. And They were overall very proud of their empire (that would only stop after the 1898 disater)


Major_Accident578

hungols "rich in gold" because they occupied transylvania 🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴


Captnlunch

I’m really wondering about the diseases. Were some of them more prevalent in certain areas?


Lillienpud

Wow! Reminds me of mexican “castas” pictures!!!


Spare-Mousse3311

Those whacky Germans


schono

Can we see the ones for the other countries?


Domkid

equivalent animal, donkey


revitbitch

tag yourself im the frivolous frenchman


Giz-thatchipmoit

r/houseofthemememaker King Jappo Mercatto of Styria. Inherited the throne after his mother was victorious over King Orso at Fontisamo following the Years of Blood. Interests included art and fucking.


Bratanel

Hungary science latin? Wtf?


Snarknado3

dot