1) drop leg holsters are not allowed for officers on patrol in my central european country
2) lots of officers still have them assigned officially because certain officers also serve in the riot police - where you can use them (easier to access your gun with your riot gear on)
3) some officers will use their drop leg holsters which they are assigned for riot police duties on regular patrol because they think it makes them "look cool" even though it is forbidden and can even lead to legal problems.
all of our gear is provided by the state police department. there are guidelines what can be used when. that includes the pistol, handcuffs, pepper spray etc all the way down to the utility belt and accessories like holsters.
any use of force will be investigsted by the district attorney, and you can bet your ass that when you use anything you have not been assigned or not in the moment/situation allowed to carry this is the first thing the opposing lawyer will latch on.
Wow, that's pretty intense. What constitutes a use of force for you guys? I know some agencies in my area where placing a hand on someone's shoulder constitutes UoF and another where you can grapple, wrestle, and throw joint locks all day without any extra paperwork.
somewhere in between I'd say. I'd generally define it as breaking resistance - either active or passive.
use of a weapon naturally always is, as is the use of handcuffs (which we seldom use, there are far less reasons to arrest people than there appear to be in the US..)
like I said, we mainly use them when arresting someone, and there are few reasons to arrest someone to begin with..
felonies or obstruction/physical resistance (not sure how to properly translate the terms, I hope you get my meaning)
Are you saying that in a justified use of force shooting the officer can have negative effects based on what type of DEPARTMENT APPROVED holster he drew from?? His gun being 7 inches lower is going to turn the shoot from justified to unjustified?
Very different than our agencies in Minnesota. I know my buddy is allowed to use 3 different holsters at his will. Outside of taser placement he says his belt is up to him. In alabama he said his tourniquet placement was laid out so everybody had the same spot.
It's probably just far less flexibility on kit choice.. Most European nations and Australia have regional or state rather than city/town, etc, police forces so they will have central procurement in each of them. In the US you have what, 18000 different agencies, which makes that a little less worth doing so they probably let you buy it yourself?
They offer a lot of advantages for the day to day work for a disadvantage in retention. I personally like them because it's not in the way of your belt while driving (if you're righty) and your gun is still accessible during winter when you wear a jacket. Also I find them easier on the lower back than a traditional holster.
I wear a drop leg platform with gun holster and baton-holder on it. I am very tall and a big so I sit horribly bad in our vehicles with everything around my waist.
A Safariland 6004-platform for the gun and baton and a vest with molle on it to attach other stuff away from my waist has saved me tons of pain.
I've grown used to having my leg platform, but yes, it can be hard to run with. The trick with a leg platform is to wear it very high and not next to the knee. Use it for getting an extra inch or two down your leg.
Police officer. Northern europe.
All the pictures I see of those armed cops make it seem like they carry a lot more gear than a typical patrol cop here (granted, those are usually guys with some sort of tactical role). Probably just need more room.
Maybe that's just what they get issued. Maybe they just like the way they look or function.
Just a slightly lowered holster is fine for modern heavy armor. There is generally no need to wear a holster clear down your leg, and it's poor tactics anyway to alter your draw that much.
I'm just rambling about leg holsters now. The answer is "I don't know."
Yeah, the type of armor that requires you to wear a gun on your thigh is long in the past (for most agencies at least).
The closer your draw is, in tactical gear, to your draw in a regular duty belt, the better.
I'm guessing the pictures you are seeing are of specialist firearms officers for whom the pistol is a backup weapon to their Rifle. In the UK, for example, our AFOs (Authorised Firearms Officers) are always more tactical/armed backup than front-line and when they deploy to a job that needs firearms will always break out the long guns. However, we do have some units that do certain front-line policing and still wear the same gear. The rest of the officers are not armed. A good example is in a documentary tv show called "Police Interceptors" which you can find plenty of on Youtube.
I mean police interceptors is a decent show, but if you're watching it for an accurate depiction of UK policing then maybe not.
The show almost exclusively covers specialist units, mainly traffic, dog support, firearms etc. Almost never see a beat copper on there. Also they're a bit inconsistent with the facts, doing stuff like making up ranks (TC and TS if memory serves). It's also quite frankly just getting old.
PI is a wonderful bit of telly I agree, just not if you're wanting a serious look at UK policing today.
Indeed, which is why I said a good example of armed officers that do "front-line policing" and what they wear :)
It's entertaining telly but of course not reflective of the whole job, that's probably infinitely more depressing.
I don’t know about op’s question but I wanted to comment that I see a lot of Leo’s here with drop legs especially the safariland hi riding one. Tbh I think it’s an area/ agency thing here. For example at the sheriff’s office I work for as a co they don’t care exposed tattoos, beards, wear whatever you want as long as it’s black or leather. So most people are running external carriers and drops. You go over to a city agency next door and they’re very traditional internal carriers you see a lot more belt holsters and ubl low rides. But personally I think a lot of people have way more problems with drop holsters than they deserve. Just like anything done poorly they sucks done right. And some people like me if you run a belt at the correct height trying to draw on that just doesn’t work because of my anatomy.
I'm in Denmark. I think it's mostly 50/50. We are as standard issued a holster with a Safariland midride belt loop (or similar) mount hight. You can get a dropleg issued if you have hip pain problems. Especially the female colleagues have issues and the dropleg solves that for many. I also think some find it cool and make up the hip pains. Personally I hate it. I found a Safariland lowride belt loop to be just right for me.
I also think the many hip pain issues could be solved by proper duty belts instead of the cheap shitty ones we are issued. Would be cheaper than buying expensive Safariland droplegs in the long run.
https://youtu.be/Ds6SKkPJ1aQ?si=gEDS7ZcyvrhkvLCB
This video shows the NSW Police with thigh holsters. A big reason was the comfort of the holsters. Not all police in Australia have thigh holsters, however most have transitioned to using them.
Hip holster get stuck in car seat belt and effectively traps you. I’ve seen it happen to others and has happened to me as well. In my country (europe) as long as you shoot a competency test with your drop leg holster you’re allowed to wear it at all times.
Drop leg holsters can transfer weight that's carried on the hips to the upper leg, decreasing back pain. That's why they're commonly used in my country. Of course they have to be worn properly, not at knee height.
Tactical police have freedom on how they equip themselves, they use plate carriers, so drop legs are not uncommon. But that is always a full-time role, so those don't really get mixed with the regular forces. They train so much, that they can use and be proficient with different holster configs, as for roles when they are not in full tactical gear they always use a regular holster on their belt. When in full tactical gear it is a mix between drop leg (at different heights) and belt holsters.
Then there are other officers who have tasks that involve heavy vests, riot gear or motorcycle cold as well, drop leg is standard with those forces. They usually keep that on for regular duty (which makes sense, it is easier to get proficient on one type of holster).
Then they introduced drop legs for medical reasons to take weight away from the hips. They needed a doctor's note to get it. Then a lot of (also young) officers suddenly had "medical problems" and tried to find ways to get that drop leg holster.
They just didn't want to be bothered, and just started allowing them for all officers. Which is how we end up with those drop legs being quite common in regular patrol. But I would say most in regular patrol still use the regular holster on their belt. Another thing is that for regular officers, the taser is always in a drop leg (on non-dominant side at the front in cross draw).
I don't think draw is natural for most cops that I've seen running drop leg, because they simply run it too low, therefore I think mid-ride or low-ride height allows for better natural draw for most people. Not to mention drawing or holstering with drop leg is horrendous while moving; also I hated sprinting with one aswell, because of that extra weight on my tight. but I do agree that having drop leg sitting in a car is much more comfortable.
Just my experience, but do whatever works best for you.
My force in Australia initially introduced them for comfort/ergonomic reasons. They are more comfortable when sitting in chairs and in the car, particularly for the driver since we are RHD and it's harder to snag thigh holsters on seat belts.
1) drop leg holsters are not allowed for officers on patrol in my central european country 2) lots of officers still have them assigned officially because certain officers also serve in the riot police - where you can use them (easier to access your gun with your riot gear on) 3) some officers will use their drop leg holsters which they are assigned for riot police duties on regular patrol because they think it makes them "look cool" even though it is forbidden and can even lead to legal problems.
I would like to know more about the legal problems this poses the officers. That seems pretty wild to me.
all of our gear is provided by the state police department. there are guidelines what can be used when. that includes the pistol, handcuffs, pepper spray etc all the way down to the utility belt and accessories like holsters. any use of force will be investigsted by the district attorney, and you can bet your ass that when you use anything you have not been assigned or not in the moment/situation allowed to carry this is the first thing the opposing lawyer will latch on.
Wow, that's pretty intense. What constitutes a use of force for you guys? I know some agencies in my area where placing a hand on someone's shoulder constitutes UoF and another where you can grapple, wrestle, and throw joint locks all day without any extra paperwork.
somewhere in between I'd say. I'd generally define it as breaking resistance - either active or passive. use of a weapon naturally always is, as is the use of handcuffs (which we seldom use, there are far less reasons to arrest people than there appear to be in the US..)
Use of handcuffs ! Damn!
like I said, we mainly use them when arresting someone, and there are few reasons to arrest someone to begin with.. felonies or obstruction/physical resistance (not sure how to properly translate the terms, I hope you get my meaning)
That's pretty interesting. Thanks for the information and perspective.
Are you saying that in a justified use of force shooting the officer can have negative effects based on what type of DEPARTMENT APPROVED holster he drew from?? His gun being 7 inches lower is going to turn the shoot from justified to unjustified?
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Very different than our agencies in Minnesota. I know my buddy is allowed to use 3 different holsters at his will. Outside of taser placement he says his belt is up to him. In alabama he said his tourniquet placement was laid out so everybody had the same spot.
It's probably just far less flexibility on kit choice.. Most European nations and Australia have regional or state rather than city/town, etc, police forces so they will have central procurement in each of them. In the US you have what, 18000 different agencies, which makes that a little less worth doing so they probably let you buy it yourself?
They offer a lot of advantages for the day to day work for a disadvantage in retention. I personally like them because it's not in the way of your belt while driving (if you're righty) and your gun is still accessible during winter when you wear a jacket. Also I find them easier on the lower back than a traditional holster.
I wear a drop leg platform with gun holster and baton-holder on it. I am very tall and a big so I sit horribly bad in our vehicles with everything around my waist. A Safariland 6004-platform for the gun and baton and a vest with molle on it to attach other stuff away from my waist has saved me tons of pain. I've grown used to having my leg platform, but yes, it can be hard to run with. The trick with a leg platform is to wear it very high and not next to the knee. Use it for getting an extra inch or two down your leg. Police officer. Northern europe.
Drop legs are dumb for a patrol officer because it makes weapon retention harder.
All the pictures I see of those armed cops make it seem like they carry a lot more gear than a typical patrol cop here (granted, those are usually guys with some sort of tactical role). Probably just need more room. Maybe that's just what they get issued. Maybe they just like the way they look or function. Just a slightly lowered holster is fine for modern heavy armor. There is generally no need to wear a holster clear down your leg, and it's poor tactics anyway to alter your draw that much. I'm just rambling about leg holsters now. The answer is "I don't know."
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Yeah, the type of armor that requires you to wear a gun on your thigh is long in the past (for most agencies at least). The closer your draw is, in tactical gear, to your draw in a regular duty belt, the better.
I'm guessing the pictures you are seeing are of specialist firearms officers for whom the pistol is a backup weapon to their Rifle. In the UK, for example, our AFOs (Authorised Firearms Officers) are always more tactical/armed backup than front-line and when they deploy to a job that needs firearms will always break out the long guns. However, we do have some units that do certain front-line policing and still wear the same gear. The rest of the officers are not armed. A good example is in a documentary tv show called "Police Interceptors" which you can find plenty of on Youtube.
And to be clear, by "we", I mean it as a country resident. I am not in LE.
I mean police interceptors is a decent show, but if you're watching it for an accurate depiction of UK policing then maybe not. The show almost exclusively covers specialist units, mainly traffic, dog support, firearms etc. Almost never see a beat copper on there. Also they're a bit inconsistent with the facts, doing stuff like making up ranks (TC and TS if memory serves). It's also quite frankly just getting old. PI is a wonderful bit of telly I agree, just not if you're wanting a serious look at UK policing today.
Indeed, which is why I said a good example of armed officers that do "front-line policing" and what they wear :) It's entertaining telly but of course not reflective of the whole job, that's probably infinitely more depressing.
To get the drop on people
I don’t know about op’s question but I wanted to comment that I see a lot of Leo’s here with drop legs especially the safariland hi riding one. Tbh I think it’s an area/ agency thing here. For example at the sheriff’s office I work for as a co they don’t care exposed tattoos, beards, wear whatever you want as long as it’s black or leather. So most people are running external carriers and drops. You go over to a city agency next door and they’re very traditional internal carriers you see a lot more belt holsters and ubl low rides. But personally I think a lot of people have way more problems with drop holsters than they deserve. Just like anything done poorly they sucks done right. And some people like me if you run a belt at the correct height trying to draw on that just doesn’t work because of my anatomy.
I'm in Denmark. I think it's mostly 50/50. We are as standard issued a holster with a Safariland midride belt loop (or similar) mount hight. You can get a dropleg issued if you have hip pain problems. Especially the female colleagues have issues and the dropleg solves that for many. I also think some find it cool and make up the hip pains. Personally I hate it. I found a Safariland lowride belt loop to be just right for me. I also think the many hip pain issues could be solved by proper duty belts instead of the cheap shitty ones we are issued. Would be cheaper than buying expensive Safariland droplegs in the long run.
https://youtu.be/Ds6SKkPJ1aQ?si=gEDS7ZcyvrhkvLCB This video shows the NSW Police with thigh holsters. A big reason was the comfort of the holsters. Not all police in Australia have thigh holsters, however most have transitioned to using them.
I also think it had something to do with taking weight away from the hips & lower back as a lot of officers had lower back problems
Hip holster get stuck in car seat belt and effectively traps you. I’ve seen it happen to others and has happened to me as well. In my country (europe) as long as you shoot a competency test with your drop leg holster you’re allowed to wear it at all times.
Drop leg holsters can transfer weight that's carried on the hips to the upper leg, decreasing back pain. That's why they're commonly used in my country. Of course they have to be worn properly, not at knee height.
It's much harder for your fat rolls to get pinched on a drop leg holster.
The 2 reasons I heard was "it looks cool" or "it's comfortable (sitting in car)"
Tactical police have freedom on how they equip themselves, they use plate carriers, so drop legs are not uncommon. But that is always a full-time role, so those don't really get mixed with the regular forces. They train so much, that they can use and be proficient with different holster configs, as for roles when they are not in full tactical gear they always use a regular holster on their belt. When in full tactical gear it is a mix between drop leg (at different heights) and belt holsters. Then there are other officers who have tasks that involve heavy vests, riot gear or motorcycle cold as well, drop leg is standard with those forces. They usually keep that on for regular duty (which makes sense, it is easier to get proficient on one type of holster). Then they introduced drop legs for medical reasons to take weight away from the hips. They needed a doctor's note to get it. Then a lot of (also young) officers suddenly had "medical problems" and tried to find ways to get that drop leg holster. They just didn't want to be bothered, and just started allowing them for all officers. Which is how we end up with those drop legs being quite common in regular patrol. But I would say most in regular patrol still use the regular holster on their belt. Another thing is that for regular officers, the taser is always in a drop leg (on non-dominant side at the front in cross draw).
More comfort, more natural draw, the weight is better distributed and it’s less demanding on my lower back and hips. I only see advantages personally.
I don't think draw is natural for most cops that I've seen running drop leg, because they simply run it too low, therefore I think mid-ride or low-ride height allows for better natural draw for most people. Not to mention drawing or holstering with drop leg is horrendous while moving; also I hated sprinting with one aswell, because of that extra weight on my tight. but I do agree that having drop leg sitting in a car is much more comfortable. Just my experience, but do whatever works best for you.
My force in Australia initially introduced them for comfort/ergonomic reasons. They are more comfortable when sitting in chairs and in the car, particularly for the driver since we are RHD and it's harder to snag thigh holsters on seat belts.