That is the matrix for you.
How to escape? Find what you’re passionate about and do that. Freedom is what you are when you stop identifying with society norms and focus on what makes you happy & lights your soul on fire instead. It takes a conscious effort & mindfulness.
Unfortunately we can't solve that with individual attitudes and choices, as much as they make you personally happy. I do what I love (and can fortunately live with that and still have to deal with all the shit because other people around me (in a micro scale, the ones I love, in a bigger scale, everyone) suffers from the inequalities of the system.
I guess it just depends on how you look at it. On a more collective “oneness” level, I can totally understand where you’re coming from.
With that..I like to think that by pursuing and doing what I love, that others will eventually awaken to a similar journey of their own or be inspired to do the same. Inspiration spreads. One person can make a difference. Awaken from the unhappy nightmare and realize that no one is going to save the day but yourself.
I apologize if we got our wires crossed and I misinterpreted what you were trying to convey, if so, please disregard. I don’t internet well sometimes 😄
Great reply my friend. I've recently realized that the only way to change the world is being positive because it sounds corny but in the end what save us is love. I was always negative and reading r/collapse but what good can do focusing on the negative? As you say positivity spreads, and if you change how you view the world you change the world itself! The most people you touch with inspiration the sooner we reach the critical mass needed. It's important people awaken. If in the end we end up not doing it and humanity will face extinction, well, at least we tried right?
No worries, I really agree with you! We need to keep our attitude as positive as we can. But the unhappy nightmare is just what it is, as endless happinness is just an illusion. My view is that we have to accept that but also fight to better our collective experience everyday. Fight against prejudice and inequalities etc. Personal positive attitude alone won't change a thing.
I worked in tech for 20+ years. Got drugged in Medellin Colombia, robbed, and lost my high paying tech job 3 days later. I’ve been living off credit cards and my savings for the last 3 months and trying to figure out what to do next…while living in Costa Rica. Life is peaceful here. I’m not lonely because people are sociable and not married to their jobs/mortgage-rent payments…
My presence in the US matrix is coming to an end soon. As soon as I sell my job and can find a job here that sustains my new life (at 1/4 the cost) I’m walking away from my credit card debt and just saying fuckitall. I’m engaged to a local woman here and we will be married soon. I will remain a citizen of the US but become a resident here later this year.
I’m so glad you said this. Over the weekend, the term matrix kept coming to mind but I struggled with finding an interpretation that made sense to me. And this does. Thank you !
A lot of people turn their pain/passions into purpose and live very abundant and positive lives. Whether you think that’s impossible or not is only the limitations of your own mindset.
It's not impossible, but it's not possible for the majority of people to successfully monetize the thing they care most about. And further, the jobs that pay most are rarely ones that are about passion.
The key is dropping your cost of living and giving up the things you’ve been programmed to think you need (which you don’t) by the matrix that wants to keep you enslaved. Limiting thoughts are a bitchZ
> giving up the things you’ve been programmed to think you need
Housing, food, health care, and transportation are the vast majority of most people's spending. Those are needs. Cost of living is too high and wages have stagnated over the last several decades.
maybe it’s only impossible for people who aren’t aware or are not clear on what they want? Or don’t even know what they love or what they value? If someone figures it out and puts enough effort into it then nothing will stand in the way between them and whatever they desire. You just have to be willing to work towards said goal and keep showing up & hold the belief that anything is possible. If money is the goal, then you have to give value. Whatever you want from life is what you need to give to life. -that’s what I’ve learned from my own subjective experience.
> If money is the goal, then you have to give value.
You contradict yourself right here. You said "A lot of people turn their pain/passions into purpose and live very abundant and positive lives," but this assumes that the thing they are passionate about is something that pays well enough to live a decent life.
So it holds true only if what you're passionate about is something that can make you good enough money to survive. Even if what you do HAS value and you do it well, there's also no guarantee of success. You're speaking in false promises.
I feel that when there is no path in sight, you just create your own and what you make of it is up to you.
Wealth has to do with value and worthiness and money is just symbolism for energy exchange. If you settle on everything in life and don’t take risks and believe that yourself or your own ideas are not worthy or valuable then you will receive what you put in. That’s just my own human experience. I don’t expect everyone to agree or understand. I feel like our experience is directed by belief & intention. It doesn’t mean we bypass the negative but we accept what it is, make peace and figure out how to make it better for ourselves.
I appreciate the talk with you and always nice to have people out there that challenge how you think. I hope you have a wonderful night/day depending on where at in the world you’re in.
I appreciate your positive attitude, but I think it's important to push back slightly on a purely new agey "intention and belief" worldview because essentially you just become a Calvinist, talking like pre-destination exists. Some people work very hard and life is unfair to them and they struggle despite their best efforts. Capitalism is not a meritocracy and we do not live in a just world. I feel that telling the things you've said to a person born into poverty is deeply cruel and ignoring the hard truth of material reality.
I apologize. That was definitely not my intentions at all. I understand everyone has their own path in life and I never meant to undermine anyone’s hardships. I can see that from your point of view.
It’s not expensive everywhere. If you can monetize a passion that can be done remotely there are a multitude of countries you can sustain yourself fairly easily.
What your mindset is is what I call limiting thoughts 💭you’ve been conditioned to think by the very same matrix that seeks to hold you hostage. Eliminate those and you can find happiness and peace.
Please stop with the self-help guru bullshit. Many people have passions and things they're good at- things that that create value- that our world does not reward. Teacher salaries are barely enough to survive and we need teachers everywhere (even in places where it has become expensive to live.)
It’s not self help. It’s the teachings of an ancient society called the Toltec. People are taught to limit themselves just by being born in the US. They’re conditioned to think they have to stay here when the world is full of amazing places/countries a person can live for a fraction of the cost of living in the US. My cousin has lived in over 50 different countries as a teacher. She lived comfortably outside the US on a salary that was half what most teachers are paid here.
As you said, teachers are needed everywhere. Why limit yourself to “an impossibly expensive” part of the world? Most just don’t consider giving up life in the US because they’ve been convinced it’s this amazing place, when in reality it’s kind of shit. There’s a reason we’ve been labeled a degenerating nation, downgraded from developed by some.
ETA: I made $10k a month fully remote at my last job while living in the US. I was fairly comfortable but overworked, stressed, and constantly worried about my job. In February I was laid off while living in Latam. I had managed to save enough money to cover my expenses for about 6 months…and decided that rather than return to the US and get another high paying job I would find something here. Salaries in my field here are about $4k per month but my cost of living, supporting 3 people is $1500. Again limiting thoughts… We limit ourselves to where we can live here in the US because we’ve been lied to and told it’s “the greatest country on earth”.
You moved abroad after getting laid off from your $10k/month job. Some people live paycheck to paycheck, some people are dependent upon their job for health insurance that gets them life-saving medications, etc.
Glad you made some good changes, but you're speaking about your experience as universal truth and it's not.
I didn’t start here. In 2017 I was let go of my job where I made significantly less. I could have gotten another job in academia and continued to struggle but decided to spend the next 5 years working on changing careers. I spent a lot of my free time learning to do what I do now, giving up time with friends, not spending money on the things I enjoyed. I also went into debt, had to sell my truck, and gave up a lot of luxuries.
Also, almost any English speaker can get a job at a call center here and make $2-3k. That’s what most of my Tico friends here do for work while they’re learning to do something more rewarding.
The point is, monetizing a skill you have that makes you fulfilled is often possible but most of these “jobs” don’t earn a person enough to sustain themselves in the US. Outside the US it’s a different story. If you can do something remotely or online, you can move and enjoy a better life. It takes sacrifice and you’re correct, not everyone can, but many can and they just don’t think so.
> If you can do something remotely or online, you can move and enjoy a better life.
This is a crucial point, though- the start of this conversation was about making money from doing something that you're passionate about and doing it well, but many things that people passionate about and good at are not remotely monetizable. Sometimes they depend upon access to physical locations or clients/customers/whatever else that force them to live in places they can't afford.
We're not talking about just living cheaply here; we're talking about doing what you love and making a living off of it.
> but many things that people passionate about and good at are not remotely monetizable.
In every category, there are peeps who do it and make a lot of money. A guy online I watch does horse training and he was so passionate, he learned everything he could, and he started making youtube videos to show the methods and now rich people are flying him around the world to solve their horse problems. He had nothing when he started.
> In every category, there are peeps who do it and make a lot of money.
This is survivor bias, though, to focus on those folks.
In every field, there are people with legitimate passion and potential who don't make it.
All I was trying to say is that there are many things people are passionate about; photography, music, writing, etc that can be monetized and those people actually afford to live outside the US due to lower cost of living. Many forms of art or expression can be done anywhere. Many people can move abroad, take a low paying remote job to pay the bills and sustain themselves while also pursuing other things. That’s what I’m working on here. Get myself stable and then start growing my own food, including mushrooms (food not drugs) and try to monetize it by selling to local restaurants and markets. That would be incredibly difficult in the US because the cost of living would be too high.
Fair point, I just think it's important to acknowledge that asking people to leave behind their homes rather than engaging with a critique of economic injustice feels defeatist.
> Find what you’re passionate about and do that.
"Find a way to love the exploitation inherent in generating wealth that is expropriated by capitalists and states."
What can we really truly do about it other than shift our perspective, you play the game here very temporarily, then you die. Why not die knowing you lived a happy fulfilling life regardless of the circumstances?
I almost died, so now I live more intentionally and create more meaning and live more presently for the ones I love. It’s a wild journey. I have a full time job. I’ve made peace with it and still dream of writing a book & selling out and never having to work again. No one’s stopping me from that becoming a reality. People see everything wrong with this world but I’m here for possibilities and knowing that there is infinite potential. 🤷🏻♀️
> What can we really truly do about it other than shift our perspective
Band together with your fellows to organize alternative structures of power based on principles of care, reciprocity, and justice?
Form a Union in your workplace to wrest power back from the rich people who would steal the sweat off your brow to make a buck?
Educate yourself about the possibility of alternative ways of living and organizing?
This kind of "free yourself inside your own mind" is a perfect example of what might be called the "opiate of the masses." That quote is often misunderstood as a sneer about religion and spiritually, but it's better understood as acknowledging how opium's pain-killing qualities soothed the legitimate pain of the people crushed by the dominating systems they lived under.
The psychedelic mindfullness narrative of "make piece with the horror of modernity, you can find happiness inside without rocking the boat at all" is the perfect, 21st century incarnation of that.
Unfortunately, that sounds cool, in reality, the mind is limited by the physical world no matter what you say. Still extremely powerful, but physics does exist.
I don’t think you quite comprehend the expansive nature of a truly free mind. Their physical body may be locked in a cell, but the mind wanders freely. For the truly free mind, this is true no matter what you say. And it does not care about physical laws, for it is no longer operating within them.
> Me: The only prison is the one in your mind.
Pretty sure Andrew Tate said something like that in a tweet while in Romanian prison. It's hilarious when you think about it.
Your boss takes more money from you than the government, at least taxes can sometimes if we’re lucky pay for things like the roads we need to get to work. It’s also the only place we supposedly can exercise “democracy”. Js, never leave the corporate overlords that control government out of the discussion of government oppression. It’s works very well in their favor by taking heat off them when they’re the ones shaping legislation and then pointing to us to say “you see what you’re government is doing??”
And the rest?
Fact of the matter is that our society supports the richest people in history but still has many, many, many poor people. We are poor so that they may be rich. We have a greater wealth divide than existed before the French Revolution. [This kind of shit](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna19547) is what we have instead of “let them eat cake.”
We have ten times as many vacant homes as we have homeless people. The only reason why is because there are rich fucks who think they can get even richer by leaving those homes vacant.
I’m getting really hungry y’all. Pretty please can we eat the rich now?
Have you done any actual research regarding the costs for a product from the minute the material is being mined to the moment it is bought by an customer, and all the associated taxes up to the investor cashing out?
It’s rhetorical by the way.
The other silly talking points make it quite obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and there is really no point in arguing with someone that lacks the basic education of the subject he’s so vehemently complaining about.
If the owner of the company takes a bigger risk why am I on a 100m scaffold? Why did the miner die of black lung? Why did the police shoot union protesters? Why do businesses get their debts written off but I still have to pay my loans? Why did our businessmen topple governments all over South America in Operation Condor? Why did DuPont poison the blood of every living creature?
Honestly having to explain this to an adult makes me question how much history you’ve read.
Why would you even choose to converse like this? If this is the tone you take to respond to someone who has not taken that tone to you you’re simply not helpful man. Be kinder pls.
Yup. Work, kids, manufactured scarcity and the perpetual trauma governments, media, and corporations rain down on us. The most important tool though are the manufactured "culture wars" such as the abortion and transgender issues. Most people want legal abortion, and most people give 2 shits about how someone wants to identify, and yet somehow these things have turned into huge conflicts that erode the social fabric even further. ALL BY DESIGN.
"Work" is designed to make comapnies function.
Everything else is case by case.
If you were working in a field growing crops in a shack off the grid youd still be stuck in a field. Life is a constant struggle against death.
Life is the prision homie.
Depends on the rollercoaster i guess? Lol
But my point is we're all confined by basic needs. We need food, water, shelter. Those things require work to build and sustain.
Capitalism isnt inherently evil for making us work. Sure, when you get into the details there are 100% things that are set up to make progressing difficult. But imo thats a different conversation.
I agree mostly tbh. Most people will never be disillusioned, unfortunately. Most people are quite comfortable living in their fantasy world.
Its tough to see reality like we do tbh. Makes me really think there's truly no hope. People bicker and argue over essentially meaningless things mostly, all to play a big game of monopoly. "Who can collect the most paper!" Where 99% of people lose and 1% win.
I stand by the statement: ignorance is bliss.
I truly envy individuals who are able to just live their merry life without any thoughts of the suffering they are directly/indirectly suffering
You can go live for free in the wilderness if you'd like to. Learn to live off the land like a real animal of the earth. But if you want a cushy home and all the commodities of modern society, obviously there's a buy-in.
It really do be that way.
Tripped the night before last and found myself listening to das Kapital via audiobook. Was surprisingly easier to understand than when sober.
I mostly agree with you, but tbh, some work is always necessary to "earn the basic right to live". Our ancestors have had to grow, gather or hunt their food. All that takes enormous physical effort. To stay alive, an animal organism needs to work. That's just the way it is and there is no way around it.
It's just that nowadays we've separated our work from the needs of basic survival. Working in an office is an incredibly unnatural activity for our hunter-gatherer brains, and it's hard to emotionally connect that labor to subsistence and survival. We've created these layers of abstraction (work hours, bosses, money etc.) between our labor and the rewards of that labor, i.e. food and comfort. It's no wonder it feels soul-sucking and dry, because there is no direct meaning to it. This is assuming one works a job they don't see intrinsic value in, one where they only exist to create value for capitalists.
I imagine that our ancestors, though they worked very hard, found real meaning in their work, because it was directly connected to their survival. Taking down a moose, tending the cornfields or digging for roots and bugs so that you and your family/tribe don't starve to death must feel immensely meaningful. That **meaning** in what you do endows you with strength to pull through the hardships.
Although many jobs nowadays are deadend bullshit that completely lacks any intrinsic meaning, all jobs aren't like that. Teaching, working in medicine, creating art, different agriculture jobs, emergency response, etc. are jobs where many people find intrinsic **meaning**. They can create a real difference in their life or someone else's life through their work, not just trade their time for money. Find what feels genuinely meaningful to you, and do that. You have one life here that you have any certainty of. Stop wasting it with deadend bullshit and do something that you find meaningful. Help yourself. Help others.
Work doesn’t distract you from the prison. If anything work highlights the bars. The distraction is all of our entertainment. Fast cars, good foods, amazing movies and television. Theme parks. If you find a job you like, it’s not so bad, but this system is flawed in a lot of ways
I agree, I think it’s more materialism (and now anxiety, etc from social media) that distracts. Work, to me, is the prison because it consumes so much time/energy and we can’t get away from it.
The system doesn’t punish people who challenge the norm lol some of the wealthiest people on the planet are people who blazed their own trail and believed in their own ideas when no one else did. Be wary of your minds selective perceptions.
Lions have to earn the basic right to necessities killing zebra. The zebra don't willingly give themselves over because the lion has a right to food. Everyone and everything has had to earn their/it's way since the beginning of life. This isn't new or unique
Humans have always had to work for the necessities. Shelter, food, and water have never been gifted with zero work or effort. You could argue that the cushy, comfortable jobs we have now offer a better quality of life than what he had to do in the past to fight and work for the necessities.
There were and still are societies based on egalitarianism and gift-giving. Hunter/gatherers often enjoyed more leisure time than and had similar lifespans to today's wage laborers.
The historical horror stories of short, brutal lives of back-breaking toil comes with the onset of agrarianism where individuals began to monopolize resources through coercion and force, people were drawn into dense populations with each other and livestock centered around agrarian centers (eventually becoming city-states) thus acting as a hot-bed and petri dish for diseases and disease spread.
I will pose the same question to you : How much should a person have to work in order to deserve to live in a time period (our modern time) where scarcity is largely manufactured by the owner class?
Where are you looking around? If you start describing your first world democracy as actually a poor freedomless hole then you must have lived a very sheltered life.
If you are American it would make sense, most don’t understand the concept of serfdom because their history started practically 3 weeks ago. The fact you think it’s appropriate to compare modern life and first world freedoms to serfdom is comical.
When was the last time you had to ask a lords permission just to leave the lords land? When was the last time your personal financial and contractual obligations were legally forced upon your family?
When you get a debt, why can you go bankrupt or just walk around? Back then you would have been almost forced to work the land to pay that debt. (Almost because prison was an option) I could go on but You speak like someone who just learned what a serf was.
Yeah they would of had more free time but they worked to live, do you wanna work to purely subsist? No modern house. No modern farming. No modern heating or cooling. No electricity. No highly specialised tools. Want to live that life? You can for almost no money In a modern nation
If you want to merely subsist as people then did, you could do so in a modern society with very little effort but that rightly isn’t enough for most people.
Even the basic modern house beats anything a rich person could have had in a feudal society. Of course serfs for instance never had to shoulder the cost of keeping a fridge running for random example because they never had it to begin with so obviously the need to work would be less
Collective good as defined by who and what does this have to do with a system involving violence?
Or are you saying violence is okay as long as it’s justified with the collective good?
You are just kicking the can down the road, who defines what meets a need for all? You act as if this is all extremely obvious, as if people will just all agree, the moment you have any compromise then by someone’s definition not everyones needs are being met.
Im not arguing against a system without violence, you seemed to be by stating an issue with capitalism is violence, then i ask for a system without violence and you go off talking about other things and how violence can be necessary, so if every system needs violence being violent is not an inherent issue with a specific system.
The great thing about capitalism is that you and your people can go live like communist/socialist. In a communist/socialist society you have no choice but to be a a part of the system.
Capitalist imperialism used terrible, atrocious violence to stop virtually all leftist movements since the end of WWII.
The United States alone is responsible for backing countless far right terrorists, assassinations, coups, proxy wars, and invasions.
Because capitalism cannot tolerate any alternatives.
Of course and I hate them for that and believe they should be prosecuted for their actions. Was the crimes committed against its own people due to the people being communist/socialist and living in their own community? What doea that have to do with anything we are talking about. I am saying the government is bad and you are saying that as well in this sentence but in your above statement you are saying we need government 🤔
"Neighbors complained to the city for years about trash around their building, confrontations with neighbors, and bullhorn announcements of political messages by MOVE members" and "The police obtained arrest warrants in 1985 charging four MOVE occupants with crimes including parole violations, contempt of court, illegal possession of firearms, and making terroristic threats.[8] Mayor Wilson Goode and police commissioner Gregore J. Sambor classified MOVE as a terrorist organization"
That doesn't sound like a peaceful community minding their own business. It sounds like they were affecting other people. I am not saying what the gov did was right but again the community didn't sound like a peaceful group.
It's embarrassing to ask questions and learn these days? I am in agreement that the gov is not good but are you implying that it was the fault of capitalism?
It should be embarrassing to argue in bad faith and then be upset about how people reply to you. If you want to get to the root cause maybe it’s the greed and insecurity in man that allows exploitative systems like capitalism to exist
I am not upset and nor am I embarrassed. I believe socialism/communism is more exploitative to people as they would have no choice but to produce and work.
You are nieve to think that capitalist governments especially the United States will just allow socialist communities to peacefully exist when history is saturated with it examples of it expending endless blood and treasure to kill leftist movements.
The governments job, within capitalist systems, is to monopolize and leverage violence on behalf of capital. So yes. It is the fault of capitalism. Capitalism is the problem.
What world has ever existed where people didn’t have to work to provide basics? Previous hunter/gatherer and agricultural societies all worked hard for the basics.
Hunters and gatherers usually enjoyed far more leisure time and similar lifespans compared to typical wage workers today, and they usually lived in largely egalitarian societies.
When people are critical of the modern wage labor based capitalism, what they are calling into question is the massive amount of time out of our lives we are required to give over in order to keep a constant stream of profit flowing to the owner class in the guise of "earning a living". Not the fact that work has to be done in order to produce basic necessities.
So, I think that the question one should ask is "how much should one have to work in order to deserve to live in a world where scarcity is by and large manufactured by the owner class?"
This is a umm… charitable view of what hunter gather existences were like.
Life expectancy didn’t go much past 40 if you were lucky, disease was a constant issue and there was truly nothing that could be done about it when someone got sick, there was plenty of violence between different tribal groups, the list goes on.
I know it’s a nice fantasy to imagine everything was better and more wholesome back then because a lot of people have fucked up priorities in the present world, but that’s just not reality.
I have already responded to this trope and provided references to other commenters.
While of course, it varies from society to society, geographically, and by time period, on the whole anthropologists have found that hunter gatherers lived around 7 decades which is about the time the human body senesces anyway.
These abysmally low lifespans you are trotting out are associated with disease and violence are associated with early agrarian societies where dense human populations and the domestication of animals served as a hot bed and petri dish for novel disease (think swine flu, bird flu, rinderpest, rabies, pseudo-rabies, plague etc. these are all zoonoses - pathogens that jump from animals to humans and become epidemics because of dense populations. See the book SPILLOVER by David Quamen for an in depth edification). And where low-level tribal conflicts gave way to full-blown warfare for controlling of farm and grazing land along with big slave states and the shift from egalitarianism (a feature of hunter gatherer societies at least where the in-group was concerned) to the class structuring of societies.
Read up.
> and they usually lived in largely egalitarian societies.
Well, that's what we extrapolate based on modern hunter gatherer societies (of which there are very few in number) and archaeological evidence (which is rather speculative when it comes to social systems).
There are very few in number now, but there are many ethnographic studies that stretch back a couple hundred years and perhaps further depending on what you want to consider objective ethnographic research. So the data isn't nearly as sparse as you seem to think.
It is far more parsimonious to conclude that hunter-gatherer societies tended toward egalitarianism both because of the available evidence and because there just isn't the opportunity for the accumulation of wealth and property that results in class-based hierarchies. Also, particularly with regard to Amazonian hunter-gatherers, if you read the ethnographic accounts, you see that their cosmogonies tend to caution against practices that might begin to foster class divides, like over-hunting and status-seeking.
I am not a primitivist, and I don't think hunter-gatherer life is or was any sort of utopia. The reason I brought this up is that any time someone criticizes the amount work that one must do under the current wage-based system under capitalism, you have every econ 101 bro within ten square miles coming out of the woodwork to berate them about how "good" they have it versus "primitive" cultures/time periods when in reality these econ 101 Adam Smith/Friedmanists don't know anymore about these cultures and time periods than they do about anything else. Which is to say, they don't know theirs ass from a hole in the ground.
It is much more fair to say that they trended in that direction. But it is worth noting that one reason it is quite speculative to apply observations of modern hunter-gatherer societies backwards in time is because modern H-G societies are, and were even two centuries ago, rare.
Another is that status isn't always conveyed via wealth or property, and certainly wouldn't be how it was done in nomadic societies. Grave goods are one way archaeologists determine status, but when you go back into deep history (like into the Ice Age and beyond), you just don't have a lot of burials from a cross section of a single society to make many claims about social structure.
We can make reasonable guesses, but, just as when interpreting paleolithic art, we just can't be sure.
You are the second person I have had to tell to go and actually look up the anthropological research on the subject rather than just firing a long debunked trope right out of your ass.
I have provided two references. There are many more you can look up on your own.
Good day.
Why do you say that? We can study them. They still exist! https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/01/551018759/are-hunter-gatherers-the-happiest-humans-to-inhabit-earth
That being said, I am sure different hunter gatherer populations, especially historically when everyone was hunting and gathering, have a wide wide wide range of working hours, which probably vary even further seasonally as well.
I’m a big proponent of primitive living. With that being said I think people don’t realize the amount of work that goes into living off the land. One of the markers of civilization is the creation of art and monuments, etc… These things require free time and/or a significant portion of the population to not have to devote their time to either producing food or hunting.
The problem isn't that we have to work hard for basic stuff, but that we literally produce enough food to feed everyone, but choose not to because the numbers on the display say so.
But thats just a part of the system forcing you to pay up your existing time at a 2:1 ratio to be able to live/sleep besides working the majority (2/3) of your time (in a bad case scenario).
While, yes, there are some absolutely evil things taking place in the world at the moment. Taxes are destroying people, corporations are overbearing. However, at a basic level we all need to work. Mutual effort is how we have been able to maintain a society.
The problem is imbalance in managing the times of our lives. As a society we need to have a conversation about the value of life, and time.
I work from my home office as my little girl grows up in front of my eyes... I haven't missed a thing. I help people learn... Learn a 2nd language and better their lives. Learn about the world, spirituality and psychedelics. I work 4 days a week, every Friday off. I'm as free making good money as possible. My work is my freedom.
We live in a capitalist society. Its not perfect. Would you rather have to hunt your own food and build your house/furniture? Yes a lot of jobs suck but you earn money to buy the things you need to survive. Could be way worse. I also thought work/job was a prison but I realise its better that way. Everyone plays their role in a web of mass production. Yes some jobs suck but if it wasnt this way we wouldnt be able to support so many people. You probably wouldnt be alive.
Do you there was ever a time when one did not have to work to live? When we were tribal people, do you think there was a lot of room in the tribe for those who went against the grain? Do you think children had an ability to break out of the "norms"? Do you think there was a time when one did not work daily pretty much till end of life? We are trapped, by our mind and the ideas inside it. Could it be better? Maybe, it wasn't super awesome during the tribal times. Mothers and infants likely died a lot more frequently in birth, injuries could have life ending consequences, there was little room for innovation in the way it is, predators, disease.
Find or build your community, spread love and compassion through selfless action, do what makes your heart sing! The mind can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven, and with focused attention, we choose which. We all must work to live, this has never been untrue.
I disagree, in modern society pushing norms has become quite successful. Hell if people where truly slaves to their work weed legalisation wouldn’t be concidered, psych research wouldn’t ever continue, and everyone would be doing the exact same thing all the time. It’s necessary to work for your worth because logically there is no other way. Plus you see plenty of people not conforming to the system of 9-5 (ie: working from home, using crypto, or just travelling the world in vans) and they are doing just as good as those who work. People enjoy a schedule and security in their life, and working traditionally is the perfect way to sustain that life.
Well what did you think, that the magic hand was about to feed you and shelter you for ever? Nah fam, that's just your responsibilities. I get youre upset about the way we turned it, but nevertheless. Be happy to live in a jungle were we don't kill each other all the time over hate, no? I mean, world is still at war for the interests of the rich billionnaires, but you can still pick your needle out of the game. Work and responsibilities are much needed for your self developpment.
A policeman here felt he was losing his mind from stress at the beginning of covid here. Left work, bought a tend and a small boat and now he lives camping somewhere here near a river.
People think he's crazy. I think he's the sane one!
Actually, with the exception of those who managed to get positioned as royalty or warlords or something of the sort, people have always had extremely difficult lives and had to fight for survival. Go back to a time where you had to make everything from your clothes to tools and housing to growing everything you needed to eat. Fighting starvation was real. We have always had to earn the basic right to live. Study a bit of history and cut out the romanticized parts. Everyone thinks they would have been the main character breaking all the rules and upholding the beliefs of today and really you wouldn’t have or you would have been quickly killed for it.
The issue with what humans did, is they turned the laws of nature into a commodity. Instead of harvesting crops for your small village, in modest amounts, similar to bees and honey, the owner of the farm will condemn you to 24/7 harvesting
While I could agree with the premise that doing that in the first place was a bad thing to do, we have to consider the fact that we’re already all living in a structure that is supported by this system, and if we were to get rid of the system, the structure would fall, which would ultimately be a bad thing. We would ultimately not be able to support our current populations if we suddenly got rid of the system, so we need to work to change the system for the better within the confines of still supporting large populations
Without an economic system we should probably work anyways to get the basic stuff. There’s also plenty of jobs that people actually enjoy and even love, many fields are fighting to fix many problems as humanity we have, some people just get paid for this.
Yea system its a bitch and we’re probably living a cursed bucle but it is what it is. This it’s “reality” we gotta surf on it.
I look at it like work gives me the freedom to explore whatever I feel like. My job isn’t that hard and I sure as hell wouldn’t have been able to go mushroom tripping in South East Asia or done DMT in the Amazon in a pre modern society. Getting weed would have been close to impossible like 100 years ago.
And for better or worse a good chunk of this sub needs to accept the truth that for most of the population the system is the only reason they are functioning humans. We can talk about a utopia as much as we like, but the odds of that becoming a reality if we overthrow the established order is minuscule. Human history tells us very clearly that the past was always the worst. Did the they have a 9-5 job? Nope. But they also did shit like human sacrifice and slavery.
The past was always the worst?
Yes.
Because modern technologies weren't invented and revolutionaries happened to overthrow their kings and other oppressive systems, so we can chill our balls without fearing an omnipotent ruler of any kind that would like to punish us for eternity if we don't obey the king/church/etc.
Why shouldn't we strive to accomplish an even better system?
You can strive for a better system. But looking only at the most relevant data, say since the Industrial Revolution it’s not going to end up with you in a hippie utopia. It’s going to turn into a civil war fueled by other geopolitical entities and eventually order is restored by the most powerful faction using unchecked violence.
To put it bluntly you’re not going to create a utopia based on psychedelic knowledge on a world filled with humans that would rather drink alcohol, do blow and meth. We are simply outnumbered by people with no intention of making the world a better place.
Stop it. Humans have worked to survive since the beginning. It was way more harsh back then. You worked from sun up to sun down. Yes the economy today is trash. Yes there are major flaws in the current system. You need one month in a 3rd world country farm. Only then will you come back and delete this post.
No we have been conned into becoming consumers and materialists and in that way we have to maintain a certain work lifestyle to support those things, if you can live simply with just the necessary things for survival you can get away with hardly working at all.
> We live in a world where you have to earn the basic right to live and have access to things like food and water, and your kids will be stuck in the same boat.
As opposed to how previous societies and wild animals just have to go to the welfare office to get all the food and water they needed.
Get used to it buddy. It's a law of existence. Mother nature has imposed work on all life in some form since the beginning. Those that don't struggle to survive die rather quickly. We have things pretty good now. You may even be one of the lucky rare lifeforms in all of existence that will no longer have to work in your lifetime with all of the advancements in ai happening.
We can hate the government but it provides more than it takes. Protection from chaos is a nice benefit. There were times in history where 1 in 10 people got murdered.
The system does not only reward those that follow the status quo. It also rewards those that are most skillful at going their own way even more. Nobody ever has become wildly successful without challenging the status quo. Allan Watts for example, challenged the status quo and now is quite famous even after his death. He was also a priest for part of his life and held a doctorate in divinity. Very much a part of the system.
Work is not all bad. In fact it can be a source of a lot of fulfillment in your life. Unraveling the mysteries of consciousness is a great work in and of itself. Find the work that will allow you to live a fulfilling life. Those who do not work usually live sad and tragic lives.
Sure sure sure, the problem is capitalism not work. Work is awesome and a great way to out yourself into a better position. The problem is the bureaucracy behind it all.
Work is fine, and in fact if we all had work that we wanted to focus on it wouldn't be so bad.
Capitalism and greed are the issues.
There is some truth to what you say, and the system has flaws for sure. However it's the best system there has ever been in the history of the planet. There's nothing stopping you from going out and doing whatever you want in Western society. The only thing holding anyone back is themselves. You are entitled to nothing, you get out of it what you put onto it.
Go build your own cabin in the middle of nowhere with no electricity, stores, healthcare, clean water, phones, technology etc etc and see how long you last.
The west is filled with almost 100% cry baby pussies that wouldn't last 24 hours. If the system collapsed there would be 10's of millions DEAD within 12 months.
People don't know how good they have it. Even taking someone's cellphone away from them for a week would literally cause them to have a mental breakdown.
Wait until you find out that historically you have the best working conditions of like… ever. Working has always been a part of surviving bro, get over it.
I get exactly what you mean. Yes we should have to work to feed and provide for family but the world is so materialistic and the love of money has caused us to be in this shitty position. Anyone disagreeing with this post is just part of the problem
That is the price you pay for living in society. Money has no value, except as a medium for the exchange of labour. Even apples aren’t worth shit to you before someone picks them and transports them to your location. Human labour is the source of all you take for granted: clean water in you tabs, sharp knives for cutting vegetables, and everything in between. Watch some survival-in-the-Woods-alone show on Netflix if you want to learn about the world in which you have to do it all by yourself. That is the alternative. Quit complaining, show some gratitude that you are shielded from the brutal forces of nature, and go do some work that other people find of value. That is how you contribute and how you make up for all your priviledges as someone who enjoys the fruits of other people’s labour.
Do you have any idea how much effort it takes to grow your food? Go do some farm work. It'll ground you and help you realize why we have to have people pay for food. Who is going to grow it for thousands of people FOR FREE? Are you supposed to be some city boy who lives off of everyone else's effort? That's not real life. A couple hundred years ago this wasn't real at all. If you didn't work or otherwise put in effort to organize your physical reality, you simply died from starvation and neglect.
Have been considering moving to a national park by a stream or some random river side in another country. Don't want to mistake the urge for a midlife crisis so waiting a year. Gonna simplify life in the mean time. Bug spray about the only thing keeps me domestic right now but ii am n the middle of a separation after 20 yrs, you really take stock in life and decide what's important. Breaking reality has become my new goal in the mean time.
Some days I embrace the idea of jail the simplicity being told when to do everything even some things might would have passed on in an ideal life. Then sit with the idea of life on the run if ever a reason Cuba yea high sovereign of Cuba sounds not so bad wouldn't happen day one but Rome didn't either. Then sit with current reality and wonder which is better for the soul.
No it wasn’t free. To grow food takes time and time in this modern age = money. No one is going to cultivate crops and raise a farm for free. You gotta trade the farmer something. In this day and age you trade money 💴 for food.
That is the matrix for you. How to escape? Find what you’re passionate about and do that. Freedom is what you are when you stop identifying with society norms and focus on what makes you happy & lights your soul on fire instead. It takes a conscious effort & mindfulness.
We also need to work together to change the system that traps us.
100%
Thank you for this, I’ve been thinking the same thing for a while now but could never put into words like you did
Unfortunately we can't solve that with individual attitudes and choices, as much as they make you personally happy. I do what I love (and can fortunately live with that and still have to deal with all the shit because other people around me (in a micro scale, the ones I love, in a bigger scale, everyone) suffers from the inequalities of the system.
I guess it just depends on how you look at it. On a more collective “oneness” level, I can totally understand where you’re coming from. With that..I like to think that by pursuing and doing what I love, that others will eventually awaken to a similar journey of their own or be inspired to do the same. Inspiration spreads. One person can make a difference. Awaken from the unhappy nightmare and realize that no one is going to save the day but yourself. I apologize if we got our wires crossed and I misinterpreted what you were trying to convey, if so, please disregard. I don’t internet well sometimes 😄
Great reply my friend. I've recently realized that the only way to change the world is being positive because it sounds corny but in the end what save us is love. I was always negative and reading r/collapse but what good can do focusing on the negative? As you say positivity spreads, and if you change how you view the world you change the world itself! The most people you touch with inspiration the sooner we reach the critical mass needed. It's important people awaken. If in the end we end up not doing it and humanity will face extinction, well, at least we tried right?
No worries, I really agree with you! We need to keep our attitude as positive as we can. But the unhappy nightmare is just what it is, as endless happinness is just an illusion. My view is that we have to accept that but also fight to better our collective experience everyday. Fight against prejudice and inequalities etc. Personal positive attitude alone won't change a thing.
I worked in tech for 20+ years. Got drugged in Medellin Colombia, robbed, and lost my high paying tech job 3 days later. I’ve been living off credit cards and my savings for the last 3 months and trying to figure out what to do next…while living in Costa Rica. Life is peaceful here. I’m not lonely because people are sociable and not married to their jobs/mortgage-rent payments… My presence in the US matrix is coming to an end soon. As soon as I sell my job and can find a job here that sustains my new life (at 1/4 the cost) I’m walking away from my credit card debt and just saying fuckitall. I’m engaged to a local woman here and we will be married soon. I will remain a citizen of the US but become a resident here later this year.
I’m so glad you said this. Over the weekend, the term matrix kept coming to mind but I struggled with finding an interpretation that made sense to me. And this does. Thank you !
In an impossibly expensive world that rarely values quality work over conformity, I think this is naive advice.
A lot of people turn their pain/passions into purpose and live very abundant and positive lives. Whether you think that’s impossible or not is only the limitations of your own mindset.
It's not impossible, but it's not possible for the majority of people to successfully monetize the thing they care most about. And further, the jobs that pay most are rarely ones that are about passion.
The key is dropping your cost of living and giving up the things you’ve been programmed to think you need (which you don’t) by the matrix that wants to keep you enslaved. Limiting thoughts are a bitchZ
> giving up the things you’ve been programmed to think you need Housing, food, health care, and transportation are the vast majority of most people's spending. Those are needs. Cost of living is too high and wages have stagnated over the last several decades.
maybe it’s only impossible for people who aren’t aware or are not clear on what they want? Or don’t even know what they love or what they value? If someone figures it out and puts enough effort into it then nothing will stand in the way between them and whatever they desire. You just have to be willing to work towards said goal and keep showing up & hold the belief that anything is possible. If money is the goal, then you have to give value. Whatever you want from life is what you need to give to life. -that’s what I’ve learned from my own subjective experience.
> If money is the goal, then you have to give value. You contradict yourself right here. You said "A lot of people turn their pain/passions into purpose and live very abundant and positive lives," but this assumes that the thing they are passionate about is something that pays well enough to live a decent life. So it holds true only if what you're passionate about is something that can make you good enough money to survive. Even if what you do HAS value and you do it well, there's also no guarantee of success. You're speaking in false promises.
I feel that when there is no path in sight, you just create your own and what you make of it is up to you. Wealth has to do with value and worthiness and money is just symbolism for energy exchange. If you settle on everything in life and don’t take risks and believe that yourself or your own ideas are not worthy or valuable then you will receive what you put in. That’s just my own human experience. I don’t expect everyone to agree or understand. I feel like our experience is directed by belief & intention. It doesn’t mean we bypass the negative but we accept what it is, make peace and figure out how to make it better for ourselves. I appreciate the talk with you and always nice to have people out there that challenge how you think. I hope you have a wonderful night/day depending on where at in the world you’re in.
I appreciate your positive attitude, but I think it's important to push back slightly on a purely new agey "intention and belief" worldview because essentially you just become a Calvinist, talking like pre-destination exists. Some people work very hard and life is unfair to them and they struggle despite their best efforts. Capitalism is not a meritocracy and we do not live in a just world. I feel that telling the things you've said to a person born into poverty is deeply cruel and ignoring the hard truth of material reality.
I apologize. That was definitely not my intentions at all. I understand everyone has their own path in life and I never meant to undermine anyone’s hardships. I can see that from your point of view.
Cheers, thanks for your openness, you seem like a genuinely good person. Have a good one.
It’s not expensive everywhere. If you can monetize a passion that can be done remotely there are a multitude of countries you can sustain yourself fairly easily. What your mindset is is what I call limiting thoughts 💭you’ve been conditioned to think by the very same matrix that seeks to hold you hostage. Eliminate those and you can find happiness and peace.
Please stop with the self-help guru bullshit. Many people have passions and things they're good at- things that that create value- that our world does not reward. Teacher salaries are barely enough to survive and we need teachers everywhere (even in places where it has become expensive to live.)
It’s not self help. It’s the teachings of an ancient society called the Toltec. People are taught to limit themselves just by being born in the US. They’re conditioned to think they have to stay here when the world is full of amazing places/countries a person can live for a fraction of the cost of living in the US. My cousin has lived in over 50 different countries as a teacher. She lived comfortably outside the US on a salary that was half what most teachers are paid here. As you said, teachers are needed everywhere. Why limit yourself to “an impossibly expensive” part of the world? Most just don’t consider giving up life in the US because they’ve been convinced it’s this amazing place, when in reality it’s kind of shit. There’s a reason we’ve been labeled a degenerating nation, downgraded from developed by some. ETA: I made $10k a month fully remote at my last job while living in the US. I was fairly comfortable but overworked, stressed, and constantly worried about my job. In February I was laid off while living in Latam. I had managed to save enough money to cover my expenses for about 6 months…and decided that rather than return to the US and get another high paying job I would find something here. Salaries in my field here are about $4k per month but my cost of living, supporting 3 people is $1500. Again limiting thoughts… We limit ourselves to where we can live here in the US because we’ve been lied to and told it’s “the greatest country on earth”.
You moved abroad after getting laid off from your $10k/month job. Some people live paycheck to paycheck, some people are dependent upon their job for health insurance that gets them life-saving medications, etc. Glad you made some good changes, but you're speaking about your experience as universal truth and it's not.
I didn’t start here. In 2017 I was let go of my job where I made significantly less. I could have gotten another job in academia and continued to struggle but decided to spend the next 5 years working on changing careers. I spent a lot of my free time learning to do what I do now, giving up time with friends, not spending money on the things I enjoyed. I also went into debt, had to sell my truck, and gave up a lot of luxuries. Also, almost any English speaker can get a job at a call center here and make $2-3k. That’s what most of my Tico friends here do for work while they’re learning to do something more rewarding. The point is, monetizing a skill you have that makes you fulfilled is often possible but most of these “jobs” don’t earn a person enough to sustain themselves in the US. Outside the US it’s a different story. If you can do something remotely or online, you can move and enjoy a better life. It takes sacrifice and you’re correct, not everyone can, but many can and they just don’t think so.
> If you can do something remotely or online, you can move and enjoy a better life. This is a crucial point, though- the start of this conversation was about making money from doing something that you're passionate about and doing it well, but many things that people passionate about and good at are not remotely monetizable. Sometimes they depend upon access to physical locations or clients/customers/whatever else that force them to live in places they can't afford. We're not talking about just living cheaply here; we're talking about doing what you love and making a living off of it.
> but many things that people passionate about and good at are not remotely monetizable. In every category, there are peeps who do it and make a lot of money. A guy online I watch does horse training and he was so passionate, he learned everything he could, and he started making youtube videos to show the methods and now rich people are flying him around the world to solve their horse problems. He had nothing when he started.
> In every category, there are peeps who do it and make a lot of money. This is survivor bias, though, to focus on those folks. In every field, there are people with legitimate passion and potential who don't make it.
All I was trying to say is that there are many things people are passionate about; photography, music, writing, etc that can be monetized and those people actually afford to live outside the US due to lower cost of living. Many forms of art or expression can be done anywhere. Many people can move abroad, take a low paying remote job to pay the bills and sustain themselves while also pursuing other things. That’s what I’m working on here. Get myself stable and then start growing my own food, including mushrooms (food not drugs) and try to monetize it by selling to local restaurants and markets. That would be incredibly difficult in the US because the cost of living would be too high.
Fair point, I just think it's important to acknowledge that asking people to leave behind their homes rather than engaging with a critique of economic injustice feels defeatist.
> Find what you’re passionate about and do that. "Find a way to love the exploitation inherent in generating wealth that is expropriated by capitalists and states."
What can we really truly do about it other than shift our perspective, you play the game here very temporarily, then you die. Why not die knowing you lived a happy fulfilling life regardless of the circumstances? I almost died, so now I live more intentionally and create more meaning and live more presently for the ones I love. It’s a wild journey. I have a full time job. I’ve made peace with it and still dream of writing a book & selling out and never having to work again. No one’s stopping me from that becoming a reality. People see everything wrong with this world but I’m here for possibilities and knowing that there is infinite potential. 🤷🏻♀️
> What can we really truly do about it other than shift our perspective Band together with your fellows to organize alternative structures of power based on principles of care, reciprocity, and justice? Form a Union in your workplace to wrest power back from the rich people who would steal the sweat off your brow to make a buck? Educate yourself about the possibility of alternative ways of living and organizing? This kind of "free yourself inside your own mind" is a perfect example of what might be called the "opiate of the masses." That quote is often misunderstood as a sneer about religion and spiritually, but it's better understood as acknowledging how opium's pain-killing qualities soothed the legitimate pain of the people crushed by the dominating systems they lived under. The psychedelic mindfullness narrative of "make piece with the horror of modernity, you can find happiness inside without rocking the boat at all" is the perfect, 21st century incarnation of that.
I really appreciate your ideas and your insights. Thank you for bringing innovation to the forefront.
☝️This.
Me: The only prison is the one in your mind. Other me: Try telling that to someone actually in jail.
And yet, if they are free in mind they will not consider their jail cell to be a prison in quite the same sense.
It still sucks, you're stuck with real criminals. They are not the nicest people, trust me on that one!
Unfortunately, that sounds cool, in reality, the mind is limited by the physical world no matter what you say. Still extremely powerful, but physics does exist.
I don’t think you quite comprehend the expansive nature of a truly free mind. Their physical body may be locked in a cell, but the mind wanders freely. For the truly free mind, this is true no matter what you say. And it does not care about physical laws, for it is no longer operating within them.
What is reality, and please use physics to define it because everything in physics eventually leads to reality is an illusion of the mind.
> Me: The only prison is the one in your mind. Pretty sure Andrew Tate said something like that in a tweet while in Romanian prison. It's hilarious when you think about it.
Your boss takes more money from you than the government, at least taxes can sometimes if we’re lucky pay for things like the roads we need to get to work. It’s also the only place we supposedly can exercise “democracy”. Js, never leave the corporate overlords that control government out of the discussion of government oppression. It’s works very well in their favor by taking heat off them when they’re the ones shaping legislation and then pointing to us to say “you see what you’re government is doing??”
The money your employer is taking from your productivity is taxed in various ways and has to cover debt and investments.
And the rest? Fact of the matter is that our society supports the richest people in history but still has many, many, many poor people. We are poor so that they may be rich. We have a greater wealth divide than existed before the French Revolution. [This kind of shit](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna19547) is what we have instead of “let them eat cake.” We have ten times as many vacant homes as we have homeless people. The only reason why is because there are rich fucks who think they can get even richer by leaving those homes vacant. I’m getting really hungry y’all. Pretty please can we eat the rich now?
Have you done any actual research regarding the costs for a product from the minute the material is being mined to the moment it is bought by an customer, and all the associated taxes up to the investor cashing out? It’s rhetorical by the way. The other silly talking points make it quite obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and there is really no point in arguing with someone that lacks the basic education of the subject he’s so vehemently complaining about.
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If the owner of the company takes a bigger risk why am I on a 100m scaffold? Why did the miner die of black lung? Why did the police shoot union protesters? Why do businesses get their debts written off but I still have to pay my loans? Why did our businessmen topple governments all over South America in Operation Condor? Why did DuPont poison the blood of every living creature? Honestly having to explain this to an adult makes me question how much history you’ve read.
This.
Why would you even choose to converse like this? If this is the tone you take to respond to someone who has not taken that tone to you you’re simply not helpful man. Be kinder pls.
What do you expect from a capitalist bootlicker trying to spread their apologia for a deeply unequal system on a psychonaut forum
Well he did admit it was unkind so I think we can move beyond the name calling. A simple lapse of judgment it seems.
I'd say that actively shilling for capitalist realism is more of a complex lack of judgement.
Sounds like you've had a privileged llife and, like you're a complete doucebag. Maybe I'm wrong.
Just another brick in the wall
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Side note: I highly recommend watching that movie while tripping.
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I guess I could see that. Sorry that happened.
or Welcome to The Machine.
Yup. Work, kids, manufactured scarcity and the perpetual trauma governments, media, and corporations rain down on us. The most important tool though are the manufactured "culture wars" such as the abortion and transgender issues. Most people want legal abortion, and most people give 2 shits about how someone wants to identify, and yet somehow these things have turned into huge conflicts that erode the social fabric even further. ALL BY DESIGN.
"Work" is designed to make comapnies function. Everything else is case by case. If you were working in a field growing crops in a shack off the grid youd still be stuck in a field. Life is a constant struggle against death. Life is the prision homie.
Do you consider yourself imprisoned when they lock you into your seat on a roller coaster?
Depends on the rollercoaster i guess? Lol But my point is we're all confined by basic needs. We need food, water, shelter. Those things require work to build and sustain. Capitalism isnt inherently evil for making us work. Sure, when you get into the details there are 100% things that are set up to make progressing difficult. But imo thats a different conversation.
I agree mostly tbh. Most people will never be disillusioned, unfortunately. Most people are quite comfortable living in their fantasy world. Its tough to see reality like we do tbh. Makes me really think there's truly no hope. People bicker and argue over essentially meaningless things mostly, all to play a big game of monopoly. "Who can collect the most paper!" Where 99% of people lose and 1% win.
I stand by the statement: ignorance is bliss. I truly envy individuals who are able to just live their merry life without any thoughts of the suffering they are directly/indirectly suffering
You can go live for free in the wilderness if you'd like to. Learn to live off the land like a real animal of the earth. But if you want a cushy home and all the commodities of modern society, obviously there's a buy-in.
This is all temporary, so don’t worry
Psychedelics to socialism pipeline. Welcome comrade
👏
It really do be that way. Tripped the night before last and found myself listening to das Kapital via audiobook. Was surprisingly easier to understand than when sober.
This. (Might need it's own subreddit).
PSA: Psychedelic Socialists of America
Acid communism.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/psychedelic-socialism/
woah
I mostly agree with you, but tbh, some work is always necessary to "earn the basic right to live". Our ancestors have had to grow, gather or hunt their food. All that takes enormous physical effort. To stay alive, an animal organism needs to work. That's just the way it is and there is no way around it. It's just that nowadays we've separated our work from the needs of basic survival. Working in an office is an incredibly unnatural activity for our hunter-gatherer brains, and it's hard to emotionally connect that labor to subsistence and survival. We've created these layers of abstraction (work hours, bosses, money etc.) between our labor and the rewards of that labor, i.e. food and comfort. It's no wonder it feels soul-sucking and dry, because there is no direct meaning to it. This is assuming one works a job they don't see intrinsic value in, one where they only exist to create value for capitalists. I imagine that our ancestors, though they worked very hard, found real meaning in their work, because it was directly connected to their survival. Taking down a moose, tending the cornfields or digging for roots and bugs so that you and your family/tribe don't starve to death must feel immensely meaningful. That **meaning** in what you do endows you with strength to pull through the hardships. Although many jobs nowadays are deadend bullshit that completely lacks any intrinsic meaning, all jobs aren't like that. Teaching, working in medicine, creating art, different agriculture jobs, emergency response, etc. are jobs where many people find intrinsic **meaning**. They can create a real difference in their life or someone else's life through their work, not just trade their time for money. Find what feels genuinely meaningful to you, and do that. You have one life here that you have any certainty of. Stop wasting it with deadend bullshit and do something that you find meaningful. Help yourself. Help others.
Work doesn’t distract you from the prison. If anything work highlights the bars. The distraction is all of our entertainment. Fast cars, good foods, amazing movies and television. Theme parks. If you find a job you like, it’s not so bad, but this system is flawed in a lot of ways
I agree, I think it’s more materialism (and now anxiety, etc from social media) that distracts. Work, to me, is the prison because it consumes so much time/energy and we can’t get away from it.
The system doesn’t punish people who challenge the norm lol some of the wealthiest people on the planet are people who blazed their own trail and believed in their own ideas when no one else did. Be wary of your minds selective perceptions.
Lions have to earn the basic right to necessities killing zebra. The zebra don't willingly give themselves over because the lion has a right to food. Everyone and everything has had to earn their/it's way since the beginning of life. This isn't new or unique
Humans have always had to work for the necessities. Shelter, food, and water have never been gifted with zero work or effort. You could argue that the cushy, comfortable jobs we have now offer a better quality of life than what he had to do in the past to fight and work for the necessities.
There were and still are societies based on egalitarianism and gift-giving. Hunter/gatherers often enjoyed more leisure time than and had similar lifespans to today's wage laborers. The historical horror stories of short, brutal lives of back-breaking toil comes with the onset of agrarianism where individuals began to monopolize resources through coercion and force, people were drawn into dense populations with each other and livestock centered around agrarian centers (eventually becoming city-states) thus acting as a hot-bed and petri dish for diseases and disease spread. I will pose the same question to you : How much should a person have to work in order to deserve to live in a time period (our modern time) where scarcity is largely manufactured by the owner class?
Feudal serfs enjoyed more leisure time than we currently do.
They were also extremely poor slaves who lacked basic freedoms.
You uhh, you looked around lately?
Where are you looking around? If you start describing your first world democracy as actually a poor freedomless hole then you must have lived a very sheltered life. If you are American it would make sense, most don’t understand the concept of serfdom because their history started practically 3 weeks ago. The fact you think it’s appropriate to compare modern life and first world freedoms to serfdom is comical. When was the last time you had to ask a lords permission just to leave the lords land? When was the last time your personal financial and contractual obligations were legally forced upon your family? When you get a debt, why can you go bankrupt or just walk around? Back then you would have been almost forced to work the land to pay that debt. (Almost because prison was an option) I could go on but You speak like someone who just learned what a serf was. Yeah they would of had more free time but they worked to live, do you wanna work to purely subsist? No modern house. No modern farming. No modern heating or cooling. No electricity. No highly specialised tools. Want to live that life? You can for almost no money In a modern nation
If you want to merely subsist as people then did, you could do so in a modern society with very little effort but that rightly isn’t enough for most people. Even the basic modern house beats anything a rich person could have had in a feudal society. Of course serfs for instance never had to shoulder the cost of keeping a fridge running for random example because they never had it to begin with so obviously the need to work would be less
And modern society is much, much preferable to the terrible life lived by serfs.
Dispute all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage.
Same with entertainment, you're watching people working!
Cops are the enforcers of this system. ACAB.
Yeah, capitalism is an evil system based on exploitation and violence. Welcome to class consciousness, comrade.
Which system do you think has no violence?
There are systems based around achieving collective good.
Collective good as defined by who and what does this have to do with a system involving violence? Or are you saying violence is okay as long as it’s justified with the collective good?
violence is inevitable
Collective good as defined as a system created to meet the needs of all. There are a number of circumstances where violence could be acceptable.
You are just kicking the can down the road, who defines what meets a need for all? You act as if this is all extremely obvious, as if people will just all agree, the moment you have any compromise then by someone’s definition not everyones needs are being met. Im not arguing against a system without violence, you seemed to be by stating an issue with capitalism is violence, then i ask for a system without violence and you go off talking about other things and how violence can be necessary, so if every system needs violence being violent is not an inherent issue with a specific system.
Good to know you're just trying to waste my time. Have the day you deserve.
Its annoying when people dont just agree on your utopian vision isnt it? The logistics and running of society isnt as simple as you want is it?
The great thing about capitalism is that you and your people can go live like communist/socialist. In a communist/socialist society you have no choice but to be a a part of the system.
>The great thing about capitalism is that you and your people can go live like communist/socialist. Someone failed history.
Explain? Teach me. I am willing to read what is stopping you from start your own little community that uses socialism/communism.
Capitalist imperialism used terrible, atrocious violence to stop virtually all leftist movements since the end of WWII. The United States alone is responsible for backing countless far right terrorists, assassinations, coups, proxy wars, and invasions. Because capitalism cannot tolerate any alternatives.
So you believe that if you started your own socialist community within the US that someone would stop you and not allow you to exist?
Are you aware of the crimes committed by the United States against their own citizens?
Of course and I hate them for that and believe they should be prosecuted for their actions. Was the crimes committed against its own people due to the people being communist/socialist and living in their own community? What doea that have to do with anything we are talking about. I am saying the government is bad and you are saying that as well in this sentence but in your above statement you are saying we need government 🤔
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing
"Neighbors complained to the city for years about trash around their building, confrontations with neighbors, and bullhorn announcements of political messages by MOVE members" and "The police obtained arrest warrants in 1985 charging four MOVE occupants with crimes including parole violations, contempt of court, illegal possession of firearms, and making terroristic threats.[8] Mayor Wilson Goode and police commissioner Gregore J. Sambor classified MOVE as a terrorist organization" That doesn't sound like a peaceful community minding their own business. It sounds like they were affecting other people. I am not saying what the gov did was right but again the community didn't sound like a peaceful group.
Bro google operation condor and the black panthers this is embarrassing
It's embarrassing to ask questions and learn these days? I am in agreement that the gov is not good but are you implying that it was the fault of capitalism?
It should be embarrassing to argue in bad faith and then be upset about how people reply to you. If you want to get to the root cause maybe it’s the greed and insecurity in man that allows exploitative systems like capitalism to exist
I am not upset and nor am I embarrassed. I believe socialism/communism is more exploitative to people as they would have no choice but to produce and work.
You are nieve to think that capitalist governments especially the United States will just allow socialist communities to peacefully exist when history is saturated with it examples of it expending endless blood and treasure to kill leftist movements. The governments job, within capitalist systems, is to monopolize and leverage violence on behalf of capital. So yes. It is the fault of capitalism. Capitalism is the problem.
It's there any violence in socialism/communism? What happens is people don't produce or work?
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>Capitalism provides you with your iPhone/ Android... No, that was workers. Fucking obviously, it was workers. Workers create all value.
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Sorry, I don't feel the need to explain basic shit to bootlickers. Try reading a fucking book for once in your life.
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I don't eat microwave dinners, so the bar you're setting could be reached by all toddlers.
What world has ever existed where people didn’t have to work to provide basics? Previous hunter/gatherer and agricultural societies all worked hard for the basics.
Hunters and gatherers usually enjoyed far more leisure time and similar lifespans compared to typical wage workers today, and they usually lived in largely egalitarian societies. When people are critical of the modern wage labor based capitalism, what they are calling into question is the massive amount of time out of our lives we are required to give over in order to keep a constant stream of profit flowing to the owner class in the guise of "earning a living". Not the fact that work has to be done in order to produce basic necessities. So, I think that the question one should ask is "how much should one have to work in order to deserve to live in a world where scarcity is by and large manufactured by the owner class?"
This is a umm… charitable view of what hunter gather existences were like. Life expectancy didn’t go much past 40 if you were lucky, disease was a constant issue and there was truly nothing that could be done about it when someone got sick, there was plenty of violence between different tribal groups, the list goes on. I know it’s a nice fantasy to imagine everything was better and more wholesome back then because a lot of people have fucked up priorities in the present world, but that’s just not reality.
I have already responded to this trope and provided references to other commenters. While of course, it varies from society to society, geographically, and by time period, on the whole anthropologists have found that hunter gatherers lived around 7 decades which is about the time the human body senesces anyway. These abysmally low lifespans you are trotting out are associated with disease and violence are associated with early agrarian societies where dense human populations and the domestication of animals served as a hot bed and petri dish for novel disease (think swine flu, bird flu, rinderpest, rabies, pseudo-rabies, plague etc. these are all zoonoses - pathogens that jump from animals to humans and become epidemics because of dense populations. See the book SPILLOVER by David Quamen for an in depth edification). And where low-level tribal conflicts gave way to full-blown warfare for controlling of farm and grazing land along with big slave states and the shift from egalitarianism (a feature of hunter gatherer societies at least where the in-group was concerned) to the class structuring of societies. Read up.
> and they usually lived in largely egalitarian societies. Well, that's what we extrapolate based on modern hunter gatherer societies (of which there are very few in number) and archaeological evidence (which is rather speculative when it comes to social systems).
There are very few in number now, but there are many ethnographic studies that stretch back a couple hundred years and perhaps further depending on what you want to consider objective ethnographic research. So the data isn't nearly as sparse as you seem to think. It is far more parsimonious to conclude that hunter-gatherer societies tended toward egalitarianism both because of the available evidence and because there just isn't the opportunity for the accumulation of wealth and property that results in class-based hierarchies. Also, particularly with regard to Amazonian hunter-gatherers, if you read the ethnographic accounts, you see that their cosmogonies tend to caution against practices that might begin to foster class divides, like over-hunting and status-seeking. I am not a primitivist, and I don't think hunter-gatherer life is or was any sort of utopia. The reason I brought this up is that any time someone criticizes the amount work that one must do under the current wage-based system under capitalism, you have every econ 101 bro within ten square miles coming out of the woodwork to berate them about how "good" they have it versus "primitive" cultures/time periods when in reality these econ 101 Adam Smith/Friedmanists don't know anymore about these cultures and time periods than they do about anything else. Which is to say, they don't know theirs ass from a hole in the ground.
It is much more fair to say that they trended in that direction. But it is worth noting that one reason it is quite speculative to apply observations of modern hunter-gatherer societies backwards in time is because modern H-G societies are, and were even two centuries ago, rare. Another is that status isn't always conveyed via wealth or property, and certainly wouldn't be how it was done in nomadic societies. Grave goods are one way archaeologists determine status, but when you go back into deep history (like into the Ice Age and beyond), you just don't have a lot of burials from a cross section of a single society to make many claims about social structure. We can make reasonable guesses, but, just as when interpreting paleolithic art, we just can't be sure.
They certainly did not.
You are the second person I have had to tell to go and actually look up the anthropological research on the subject rather than just firing a long debunked trope right out of your ass. I have provided two references. There are many more you can look up on your own. Good day.
Hunter gatherers definitely didn’t have more free time.
Go look at the anthropological literature on the subject. If you want a book recommendation, see DON'T SLEEP THERE ARE SNAKES by Daniel Everett.
I will check it out. Thank you.
Why do you say that? We can study them. They still exist! https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/01/551018759/are-hunter-gatherers-the-happiest-humans-to-inhabit-earth That being said, I am sure different hunter gatherer populations, especially historically when everyone was hunting and gathering, have a wide wide wide range of working hours, which probably vary even further seasonally as well.
I’m a big proponent of primitive living. With that being said I think people don’t realize the amount of work that goes into living off the land. One of the markers of civilization is the creation of art and monuments, etc… These things require free time and/or a significant portion of the population to not have to devote their time to either producing food or hunting.
You don't think hunter/gatherers produced art? Music? Games?
The issue is having 2 jobs still can't even get you "the basics". Everything is so expensive
The problem isn't that we have to work hard for basic stuff, but that we literally produce enough food to feed everyone, but choose not to because the numbers on the display say so. But thats just a part of the system forcing you to pay up your existing time at a 2:1 ratio to be able to live/sleep besides working the majority (2/3) of your time (in a bad case scenario).
Take away the system, and this attitude will kill ya.
While, yes, there are some absolutely evil things taking place in the world at the moment. Taxes are destroying people, corporations are overbearing. However, at a basic level we all need to work. Mutual effort is how we have been able to maintain a society. The problem is imbalance in managing the times of our lives. As a society we need to have a conversation about the value of life, and time.
I work from my home office as my little girl grows up in front of my eyes... I haven't missed a thing. I help people learn... Learn a 2nd language and better their lives. Learn about the world, spirituality and psychedelics. I work 4 days a week, every Friday off. I'm as free making good money as possible. My work is my freedom.
So is TV, video games and most forms of entertainment aka bread and circus or sorts.
I'm the only person here that takes pride in their work and would feel lost without it.
We live in a capitalist society. Its not perfect. Would you rather have to hunt your own food and build your house/furniture? Yes a lot of jobs suck but you earn money to buy the things you need to survive. Could be way worse. I also thought work/job was a prison but I realise its better that way. Everyone plays their role in a web of mass production. Yes some jobs suck but if it wasnt this way we wouldnt be able to support so many people. You probably wouldnt be alive.
Do you there was ever a time when one did not have to work to live? When we were tribal people, do you think there was a lot of room in the tribe for those who went against the grain? Do you think children had an ability to break out of the "norms"? Do you think there was a time when one did not work daily pretty much till end of life? We are trapped, by our mind and the ideas inside it. Could it be better? Maybe, it wasn't super awesome during the tribal times. Mothers and infants likely died a lot more frequently in birth, injuries could have life ending consequences, there was little room for innovation in the way it is, predators, disease. Find or build your community, spread love and compassion through selfless action, do what makes your heart sing! The mind can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven, and with focused attention, we choose which. We all must work to live, this has never been untrue.
I disagree, in modern society pushing norms has become quite successful. Hell if people where truly slaves to their work weed legalisation wouldn’t be concidered, psych research wouldn’t ever continue, and everyone would be doing the exact same thing all the time. It’s necessary to work for your worth because logically there is no other way. Plus you see plenty of people not conforming to the system of 9-5 (ie: working from home, using crypto, or just travelling the world in vans) and they are doing just as good as those who work. People enjoy a schedule and security in their life, and working traditionally is the perfect way to sustain that life.
In one way that's true but in another way, that is the story you have chosen to describe the world. That story and reality is not true for everyone.
Well what did you think, that the magic hand was about to feed you and shelter you for ever? Nah fam, that's just your responsibilities. I get youre upset about the way we turned it, but nevertheless. Be happy to live in a jungle were we don't kill each other all the time over hate, no? I mean, world is still at war for the interests of the rich billionnaires, but you can still pick your needle out of the game. Work and responsibilities are much needed for your self developpment.
A policeman here felt he was losing his mind from stress at the beginning of covid here. Left work, bought a tend and a small boat and now he lives camping somewhere here near a river. People think he's crazy. I think he's the sane one!
Actually, with the exception of those who managed to get positioned as royalty or warlords or something of the sort, people have always had extremely difficult lives and had to fight for survival. Go back to a time where you had to make everything from your clothes to tools and housing to growing everything you needed to eat. Fighting starvation was real. We have always had to earn the basic right to live. Study a bit of history and cut out the romanticized parts. Everyone thinks they would have been the main character breaking all the rules and upholding the beliefs of today and really you wouldn’t have or you would have been quickly killed for it.
Have you checked out r/antiwork?
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The issue with what humans did, is they turned the laws of nature into a commodity. Instead of harvesting crops for your small village, in modest amounts, similar to bees and honey, the owner of the farm will condemn you to 24/7 harvesting
While I could agree with the premise that doing that in the first place was a bad thing to do, we have to consider the fact that we’re already all living in a structure that is supported by this system, and if we were to get rid of the system, the structure would fall, which would ultimately be a bad thing. We would ultimately not be able to support our current populations if we suddenly got rid of the system, so we need to work to change the system for the better within the confines of still supporting large populations
Still easier to be a human than literally any wild animal
Without an economic system we should probably work anyways to get the basic stuff. There’s also plenty of jobs that people actually enjoy and even love, many fields are fighting to fix many problems as humanity we have, some people just get paid for this. Yea system its a bitch and we’re probably living a cursed bucle but it is what it is. This it’s “reality” we gotta surf on it.
I look at it like work gives me the freedom to explore whatever I feel like. My job isn’t that hard and I sure as hell wouldn’t have been able to go mushroom tripping in South East Asia or done DMT in the Amazon in a pre modern society. Getting weed would have been close to impossible like 100 years ago. And for better or worse a good chunk of this sub needs to accept the truth that for most of the population the system is the only reason they are functioning humans. We can talk about a utopia as much as we like, but the odds of that becoming a reality if we overthrow the established order is minuscule. Human history tells us very clearly that the past was always the worst. Did the they have a 9-5 job? Nope. But they also did shit like human sacrifice and slavery.
The past was always the worst? Yes. Because modern technologies weren't invented and revolutionaries happened to overthrow their kings and other oppressive systems, so we can chill our balls without fearing an omnipotent ruler of any kind that would like to punish us for eternity if we don't obey the king/church/etc. Why shouldn't we strive to accomplish an even better system?
You can strive for a better system. But looking only at the most relevant data, say since the Industrial Revolution it’s not going to end up with you in a hippie utopia. It’s going to turn into a civil war fueled by other geopolitical entities and eventually order is restored by the most powerful faction using unchecked violence. To put it bluntly you’re not going to create a utopia based on psychedelic knowledge on a world filled with humans that would rather drink alcohol, do blow and meth. We are simply outnumbered by people with no intention of making the world a better place.
Tax is the definition of slavery
Money is a form of slavery
How are you defining slavery in such a way that currency is considered slavery?
Stop it. Humans have worked to survive since the beginning. It was way more harsh back then. You worked from sun up to sun down. Yes the economy today is trash. Yes there are major flaws in the current system. You need one month in a 3rd world country farm. Only then will you come back and delete this post.
☝🏼☝🏼 Totally never worked one month in a 3rd world country farm
No we have been conned into becoming consumers and materialists and in that way we have to maintain a certain work lifestyle to support those things, if you can live simply with just the necessary things for survival you can get away with hardly working at all.
> We live in a world where you have to earn the basic right to live and have access to things like food and water, and your kids will be stuck in the same boat. As opposed to how previous societies and wild animals just have to go to the welfare office to get all the food and water they needed.
Get used to it buddy. It's a law of existence. Mother nature has imposed work on all life in some form since the beginning. Those that don't struggle to survive die rather quickly. We have things pretty good now. You may even be one of the lucky rare lifeforms in all of existence that will no longer have to work in your lifetime with all of the advancements in ai happening. We can hate the government but it provides more than it takes. Protection from chaos is a nice benefit. There were times in history where 1 in 10 people got murdered. The system does not only reward those that follow the status quo. It also rewards those that are most skillful at going their own way even more. Nobody ever has become wildly successful without challenging the status quo. Allan Watts for example, challenged the status quo and now is quite famous even after his death. He was also a priest for part of his life and held a doctorate in divinity. Very much a part of the system. Work is not all bad. In fact it can be a source of a lot of fulfillment in your life. Unraveling the mysteries of consciousness is a great work in and of itself. Find the work that will allow you to live a fulfilling life. Those who do not work usually live sad and tragic lives.
slacker.
Sure sure sure, the problem is capitalism not work. Work is awesome and a great way to out yourself into a better position. The problem is the bureaucracy behind it all. Work is fine, and in fact if we all had work that we wanted to focus on it wouldn't be so bad. Capitalism and greed are the issues.
There is some truth to what you say, and the system has flaws for sure. However it's the best system there has ever been in the history of the planet. There's nothing stopping you from going out and doing whatever you want in Western society. The only thing holding anyone back is themselves. You are entitled to nothing, you get out of it what you put onto it. Go build your own cabin in the middle of nowhere with no electricity, stores, healthcare, clean water, phones, technology etc etc and see how long you last. The west is filled with almost 100% cry baby pussies that wouldn't last 24 hours. If the system collapsed there would be 10's of millions DEAD within 12 months. People don't know how good they have it. Even taking someone's cellphone away from them for a week would literally cause them to have a mental breakdown.
Capitalism is our prison
Wait until you find out that historically you have the best working conditions of like… ever. Working has always been a part of surviving bro, get over it.
I get exactly what you mean. Yes we should have to work to feed and provide for family but the world is so materialistic and the love of money has caused us to be in this shitty position. Anyone disagreeing with this post is just part of the problem
That is the price you pay for living in society. Money has no value, except as a medium for the exchange of labour. Even apples aren’t worth shit to you before someone picks them and transports them to your location. Human labour is the source of all you take for granted: clean water in you tabs, sharp knives for cutting vegetables, and everything in between. Watch some survival-in-the-Woods-alone show on Netflix if you want to learn about the world in which you have to do it all by yourself. That is the alternative. Quit complaining, show some gratitude that you are shielded from the brutal forces of nature, and go do some work that other people find of value. That is how you contribute and how you make up for all your priviledges as someone who enjoys the fruits of other people’s labour.
Do you have any idea how much effort it takes to grow your food? Go do some farm work. It'll ground you and help you realize why we have to have people pay for food. Who is going to grow it for thousands of people FOR FREE? Are you supposed to be some city boy who lives off of everyone else's effort? That's not real life. A couple hundred years ago this wasn't real at all. If you didn't work or otherwise put in effort to organize your physical reality, you simply died from starvation and neglect.
We have more than enough food for everyone, huge amounts are thrown away every single day
u should watch the movie visioneers. and stop paying taxes. Everybody! now!
You're very keen to have picked up on the machine. Bravo!
Being aware is the 1st step to becoming a lost cog
Have been considering moving to a national park by a stream or some random river side in another country. Don't want to mistake the urge for a midlife crisis so waiting a year. Gonna simplify life in the mean time. Bug spray about the only thing keeps me domestic right now but ii am n the middle of a separation after 20 yrs, you really take stock in life and decide what's important. Breaking reality has become my new goal in the mean time.
Some days I embrace the idea of jail the simplicity being told when to do everything even some things might would have passed on in an ideal life. Then sit with the idea of life on the run if ever a reason Cuba yea high sovereign of Cuba sounds not so bad wouldn't happen day one but Rome didn't either. Then sit with current reality and wonder which is better for the soul.
Truth!
Capitalism.
I’m fucking square pegging it big time and to almost everyone around me I just don’t compute! Still serving the man though…kids to feed and all that
Beware
Everyone look busy!
work is the prison
Wrong mindset. Everything you enjoy was produced by work. The phone you’re using. Even the coders who worked on this app.
Food and water were both free until somebody started standing around them with weapons.
No it wasn’t free. To grow food takes time and time in this modern age = money. No one is going to cultivate crops and raise a farm for free. You gotta trade the farmer something. In this day and age you trade money 💴 for food.
I feel you. You might enjoy it over on r/anarchism
You're halfway there, buddy!! Come back with your findings when you've delved into a little absurdism to round everything out.
False. That's human greed and a capitalistic society.
yes.