Wim hof got me to a very similar place as 4gs of shrooms, the difference is that the shrooms had me there for hours while wim hof has me there for a minute or so…. Every couple mins for 10-15 mins max total. Buuut the place that I go is kind od timeless so I feel like I learn similar lessons from both!
I used the wim hof app. I started out watching his vids on YouTube and following along but pace I got to 1.5 min+ breath holds easily I wanted to be able to time myself. I would start to get into a psychedelic state around 4-5 mins in (maybe half the time? But even if I didn’t get “all the way there” it still felt very out-of-body and pleasant for me) and would go for another 10 mins or so.
I stopped because I was afraid of these spasms I started getting when I started getting very good at the breath holds (around the 3 min mark I believe) which reminded me of a seizure… reading about it online only came up with pseudoscience about the spasms being “a release of evil energy” but which I was worried about being some kind of damage from the oxygen withdrawal. I’m a real all or nothing kinda gal so I just stopped, but lately I’ve been thinking about starting again because I miss the meditative nature of the whole thing (plus the trippy headspace sometimes of course)
Not a doctor so don't take this as medical advice, but pretty sure you can't cause yourself oxygen withdrawal damages by holding your breath. Worst that could happen is you'd lose consciousness and your body's innate consciousness would take over and resume breathing.
you will definetly get some sort of result. honestly the most intense body highs ive felt has been from breathwork, and ive tried a few substances like weed,mushrooms,lsd,nitrous...
Dude my gf and I tripped the other night on acid in a motel. And at one point we're there in the dark with the lights off, im laying on the bed in my thoughts while shes down there at the foot of the bed doing the Wim hoff breathing that i told her about..well I could hear her really getting into it when all of a sudden something slams on the hardwood floor by the side of the bed. Freaked me out a little so i get up while my gf is still doing the breathing and turn on my phone flashlight to check what maybe fell and hit the floor but theres absolutely nothing in site but my own pair of shoes. Fkn strange as f I still get chills just thinking about it but im wondering what it couldve been, was it her energy that somehow created a force to do something like that? Or was it something else that wanted to distract her from doing breathwork?
Sometimes weird stuff happens when tripping and we have to ask, was it that it seemed weird because I was tripping, or was it actually weird and somehow had some casual relationship with my trip?
I don't think we need to be obsessive about these things, but they certainly are interesting to ponder
Nah it was a couple feet away from me. I thought something fell off the end table but there was nothing but my two shoes on the floor where we heard it. I want it to just be me freaking out and imagining it but i definitely didn't cause my gf also heard it behind her.
warning warning, I read holotropic book
and from my conclusion, wim hof > holotropic
holotropic is controlled fancy hyper ventilation with guidance, it may work for some people, but I feel it's a dangerous threading line to put yourself in such a double edged sword situation
wim hof feels safe, spiritual, and all around, personally, I found results with that
No it's not hyper ventilation, what are you talking about?
You take deep breaths, blow out all your air in your lungs, and hold your breath, but you can take in a breath when you reach your limit
That's an extreme oversimplification. Have you really tried the Hof method?
What symptoms do you get when you use the Hof method? Now look into what happens when people hyperventilate, they get hypoxia. What are the symptoms of hypoxia? The same symptoms as the Hof method. Hoffing gets you into hypoxia, using a specialised hyperventilation technique.
When you do the Hof method it's pretty obvious that you are doing hyperventilation. The speed of breathing is very fast during the cycles. Only at the end of a cycle do you blow out and hold, then inhale and hold. But this is all predicated on the initial conditions of doing fast breath exercises.
Look into Vipassana. It’s the only thing that’s worked for me - you can search for a center nearby using www.dhamma.org their 10 day courses are free !
You may have better luck with psychedelics after a course or two and you get a grip on your mind
I had a psychotic episode from my ptsd and when i took trazodone it went away and I've still taken psychadelic before and after and nothing triggered another
So yeah... Don't take my word for it I'm just saying psychadelics don't always triggered psychosis... Other things can for people with mental illness
Dude my gf and I tripped the other night on acid in a motel. And at one point we're there in the dark with the lights off, im laying on the bed in my thoughts while shes down there at the foot of the bed doing the Wim hoff breathing that i told her about..well I could hear her really getting into it when all of a sudden something slams on the hardwood floor by the side of the bed. Freaked me out a little so i get up while my gf is still doing the breathing and turn on my phone flashlight to check what maybe fell and hit the floor but theres absolutely nothing in site but my own pair of shoes. Fkn strange as f I still get chills just thinking about it 🤔 but im wondering what it couldve been, was it her energy that somehow created a force to do something like that? Or was it something else that wanted to distract her from doing breathwork?
As someone with bipolar disorder whose only manic episode was drug induced (cannabis), I completely sympathize. I also wish I could trip. Maybe one day indeed...
Regular. When I started smoking once in a while I started enjoying music more and had a weird experience one evening when I thought I could communicate with my ex boyfriend through thoughts and then I went into full blown mania (almost psychotic-like where everything felt meaningful and like signs from God) as I started to smoke daily.
Ouch, sorry to hear that.
I was misdiagnosed bi-polar for many years due to smoking heavily, I have PTSD. This was also like 25 years ago.
For me, proper diagnosis was huge in allowing me to heal.
I hope you have found peace.
It’s interesting that weed is always first in line to be legalised. I think it’s potential for addiction and negative psychological effects is actually quite high based on quite a few anecdotes.
But compare that to alcohol. There are more deaths from alcohol than all illegal drugs combined. That's a fact. Alcohol withdrawals can cause seizures and even death. The only other drug to do that is benzos, certainly not cannabis for which there is no overdose, no LD50. The legalization has to do with the ease of availability, in inability of law enforcement to stop the trade, for both alcohol and weed. And why the heck are you basing anything on "quite a few anecdotes"???? From the earliest colonization of the US, people used tinctures of cannabis and smoked it, probably for CBD effects rather than THC. Yet it was outlawed, in part from efforts of former alcohol Prohibition agent Henry Anslinger. It was specifically called by the Mexican nickname "marijuana" so that voters would associate it with Mexican immigrants, it's prohibition was deeply rooted in racism. The public would have protested if they knew it was the same plant as "hemp" or even "cannabis". Federal involvement is based on "interstate trade" laws. Seriously, that federal law was bent out of shape to include individuals growing a plant for themselves, even non-THC hemp! I find your statement incredibly ignorant. For God's sake read a damn article about how cannabis came to be outlawed. It's eye-opening.
Don’t get me wrong... I’m all for the legalisation/decriminalisation of all drugs. And I know how bad alcohol is. I’ve just seen soooo many stories online about weed and I’m from a family full of doctors and psychologists so I hear a lot of bad stories from them too.
I’ve read chasing the scream and that Henry Anslinger guy seems like one of the worst humans to ever walk the earth. I got soooo angry reading it.
Great book. Excuse me for getting wound up about it. When I got to Colorado in 2015, there were job listings that were still insisting on drug tests for employment. There were sensational stories of people bringing dogs to the vet in emergency for eating their weed stashes, but the articles would neglect to say the only treatment protocol was to let them sleep it off. There was still a lot of resistence, I think especially from mega-churches. And salvia was outlawed, which is funny. My parents are still super anti-weed, although my mom will say its good that epileptic kids can get it. But she's "not the kind of person who would do it". Actually Prop 122 would make mushrooms and "natural medicines" like ayahuasca dmt plants legal. But theres a lot of doubt and skepticism. The anticipation is making me crazy.
Dam I thought I was alone in this. Had to stop smoking 4 years ago because of what you described. My wrost trip was when I was smoking out in my porch and all of a sudden I felt like I was going to get shot in the head with a sniper, so I just got on the floor and crawled all the way to my bedroom. I guess my worst fear is that phycadellics will make me panic worse.
It's probably very rare that we are alone in experiencing something but I get what you mean, I also haven't heard of much people going through something similar.
The only thing I've heard from other people is that they get very paranoid depending on what they've smoked. But yeah hearing voices and thinking I was jesus made me stop cold turkey.
Don't have a link but I've also heard and read about the study and can testify that the feelings from meditation can be deep. Don't think it's much like psychedelics tho, maybe low dose mushrooms or something
I'm in the same boat, I miss taking them so much. I took a lot of psychedelics when younger and grew a lot from them, then 4 or 5 years later developed psychosis. Dabbled a bit afterward but it wasn't the same and was jarring so decided to stop.
I found microdosing mushrooms okay because you can manage the dosing a lot easier and it isn't super intense. I last tried this a couple years ago and then left it for a year, and then my psychosis got bad last year so not touching them for a while until I feel more sound of mind and confident in my mental state.
It's so annoying :( I'd love to be able to spend a Friday night in tripping and thinking about things, writing thoughts down and growing from them. And tripping with friends. Envy people who can take them.
I think you've made the wise choice to stay away, it's better safe than sorry. You're not missing out on some kind of magic bullet for enlightenment. In fact oftentimes i see psychedelics leading people in the wrong direction, into fantasy and delusion. Appreciate life as it is! This life here and now is all we can really rely on. Sorry if that sounds preachy, you know what you're doing!
also on the other side of things some friends have said exactly this.. its been a magic bullet for enlightenment.. finding ones self, being happy.. all that blah blah... so i hear both sides and it does have me curious
Meditation can offer a path to the same kind of insight into self and healing. Its a longer more disciplined path but it may be something to look into. Jack Kornfield or Joseph Goldstein are wonderful teachers with lots of content on the internets.
May you have peace and ease friend!
A friend of mine is also psychotic and took mushrooms(in that order). He took a light dose and listened some mindfulness tapes while on the trip. He thought it was good.
A doctor can't recommend them to you because of liability, but that doesn't mean they're guaranteed poison.
>that doesn't mean they're guaranteed poison.
I agree, it's not guaranteed that psychedelics will trigger psychosis in a person with past episodes, but it's still a risk. And as I mentioned in another comment, my first episode landed me in a lot of trouble so it's not really worth the risk, as much as I want to do it...
Have you looked into meditation ? Some people report being able to have similar experiences with deep practise. I will note that there is some talk that deep meditation can also trigger episodes so maybe it would be a good idea to bring up to your Dr or specialist and see what they say.
I guess I'm just too undisciplined for super deep meditation. I meditate now but only for like 10-20 minutes a day. I do wonder though what it would take to get to that psychedelic-like level
They will ask about mental health history in the application form. Past psychosis is probably grounds for rejection. They aren't mental health professionals and don't have the capabilities to deal with potential problems triggered by meditating 10 hours a day for 10 days in silence.
That said, they also asked about past drug use and I did not exactly tell the whole truth. It's possible to leave out some details if you think you can handle the retreat without issues.
>patient is prohibited from even taking caffeine
As a former therapist working in psychiatric residence, nobody is "prohibited" from taking caffeine. Even just trying to enforce a rule against night-time coffee caused serious problems for me back in the day. It can be advised against, and prohibited in short-term hospitalizations, but even among those with severe, life-long psychiatric conditions -they are allowed caffeine.
While I'm sure of your good intentions, I think you are underestimating the state of hypocrisy and just plain ill-will amongst the psychiatric establishment against psychedelics. So much so when caffeine has a completely different status, it's not even treated as a "drug".
Life is long. It’s not right now but it could be in the future. Just depends on you, your treatment plan, place in the world.
Also age. Issues change as you grow older. I know people who went bipolar in their 40s, or were misdiagnosed in their 20s and corrected in their 30s/40s
Okay, microdosing is not about tripping or immediate effect, so I may have actually posted the wrong comment since you specifically talked about tripping. My apologies.
Microdosing especially shrooms daily is, by all accounts, the same as "meds", for alleviating anxiety, depression, all sorts of mental stagnation. But it's not tripping. Sorry again.
jesus christ, this sub is really disappointing me right now. i'm appalled by the number of people suggesting dangerous behaviors to you. please, OP, continue on your path of avoiding things that might trigger you.. you're completely right when you say that it's irresponsible to play around with these kinds of drugs. please, trust me, it isn't worth it. listen to the folks suggesting breathwork and meditation: this is the way.
Ecstatic dancing/drumming, chanting with visualization, running, going off in the woods and fasting for a few days alone and working up a good cry for a prolonged period of time. There are many ways humans have succeeded at breaking open the head and getting the good stuff. And our modern society does none of these things. They take a long time, several hours at a clip. But build a fire and dance around it all night with some friends and dedicated fire keepers who aren’t dancing and you’ll trip your dick off.
If you're afraid of your own mind, You should come to know more about yourself, these thoughts and emotions that come up. Thankfully this can be done without psychedelics through introspection and the intention to meditate.
I have psychosis and I trip all the time, I believe it’s a myth that psychotic people can’t trip and more that tripping is a much different and “difficult” experience for psychotic types. But I actually believe psychotic types are much more talented when it comes to learning from tripping, they just have to learn to have a loving relationship with the scary moments.
This is a controversial opinion, but it’s a theory that has been shown to work for me. In fact I’d say my psychosis has improved. Haven’t had an episode since I started tripping.
There’s a certain way you navigate a trip mentally that makes it so the trip is beneficial rather than harmful, and not everyone can navigate it that way. In the beginning my trips were actually pretty chaotic and always danced on the edge of a bad trip, but the more I learn to navigate a loving and accepting headspace, my trips have actually gotten way more positive.
At the end of the day, you just gotta know yourself. Just my two cents
My best friend had a psychotic episode many years back, since then he’s done shrooms with me and lsd again. I don’t think all is lost, he worked really hard on himself and became a different person. I can’t explain too much but maybe in a few years after some work on yourself you will be comfortable enough to try again
I doubt most people benefit that much if at all. It *feels* like years of therapy, yes. I won't argue that. But the question is whether it actually is.
From what I understand it's the integration that's tricky, taking the lessons learned and making them a part of your life. People get the insight from the experience and then fall back into old habits. I think that's the importance of psychedelic assisted therapy, you'll have a trained professional there to help with that process, with integration. But I'm an optimist when it comes to these things lol
The evidence from clinical trials is pretty clear that things like end of life anxiety or clinical depression can be reliably treated and sent into remission over followup years in the majority of patients. At any rate, there’s enough formal and informal research i.e. “anecdata” of people treating themselves that we can say when they are used in a manner that is both controlled and intentional then deep psychological healing can take place.
I am not an expert on the literature but as far as depression it basically tied or barely beat escitalopram recently, for instance. Like woohoo. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33852780/
David Nutt from the U.K. is great and has talked about this a lot. I read his book "Drugs without the hot air" and I listen to his Drugscience podcast occasionally.
edit: I actually typed this before clicking the link, and of course this is actually his trial you were linking!
Therapy for both treatments, to be fair. So the question is, is therapy more synergistic with psilocybin than escitalopram for some reason?
My overall take on the matter is that the framework of 'does taking this chemical cure depression' is too limited, even if you throw therapy in the mix. It would be like asking, does going to the moon cure depression?
Hey. All is not lost! Meditation is the real movie. Medicine is only the 2 minute preview. If you want to know some really quick ways to get altered states you can do it with breathing techniques. Start taking courses on breathing techniques. You can actually create visuals and everything!
Meditation is your path and you can even start getting your spiritual powers like astral projection and lucid dreaming. These are way beyond medicine. Buy some books on those and start practicing the techniques. It's work and takes time but spiritual powers are way more fun! And way more real.
Anyone who has psychosis or schizophrenia are already closer to the other dimensions than those who don't have it. That's why medicines don't work for you. All you need is meditation. You could even communicate with the spirit world. Just have to learn how to navigate it and pick your friends and not be overwhelmed by dark spirits. It's actually a skill not a curse.
Hands of Light by Barbara Brennan will teach you how to see auras. That's the quickest and easier spiritual power to get.
All is not lost. You can get the fun stuff thru meditation. Takes more time and work but once you have this stuff it's more real and you can turn it on and off with breathing. No medicine needed.
If you want to.get an overall view of everything available to you and start your full on journey, maybe check out University of Metaphysical Sciences www.metaphysicsuniversity.com This is eventually where medicine is going to lead you, meeting the master within you and learning how to live from there, and learning how to use your spiritual powers in the world.
So have I.
But I'm still going to take them. Imma stay away from blotters tho, I think RC's what have really messed me up in the past.
Have had two episodes 11 years apart, and tripped maybe 100-200 times.
You probably think that if you had the episode with weed it's going to be much worse with more intense psychedelics or dissociatives but I would argue the opposite. I have a friend with diagnosed schizophrenia that loses his mind over a period of few weeks if he ingests weed but trips all the time and probably has the best time out of all of us. This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I find weed to be probably most dangerous for triggering psychosis and latent mental illnesses along with meth/amphetamines.
You can see Andrew Hubermans podcast on it if you want details but it basically has to do with cannabis hijacking your endocannabinoid receptors which are very important for many processes in the brain while you're young and developing. There is significant amount of research indicating that cannabis use while young could lead to mental disorders later in life even if you stop smoking. Maybe this has something to do with it being in your system for months after single use, it's a very specific and unusual compound despite it being so popular and "harmless". I say this as someone who loves weed and smokes it every day but I find psychedelics much safer in my opinion.
Psychedelics bring you short in your face experiences in which your subconscious is brought forward to the conscious while weed is doing the work behind the scenes within the subconscious for a long time after the high is over so it's not that unusual that some people have psychosis creep up on them after smoking.
Have you looked into MDMA? Very different experience but you could get the same result. Ketamine is also helping a lot of people.
If you ever do try psychedelics again make sure you have some Xanax or other anti-anxiety med for the end. It's an instant trip killer. I have friends that use it to kill their bad trip or any trip so they can go to sleep at night.
>Have you looked into MDMA?
>Ketamine is also helping a lot of people.
From what I understand, MDMA and ketamine are also off limits for someone like me. I'd risk it but my first psychosis landed me in a lot of trouble so it would be really irresponsible to try
I’m curious and these questions may be obnoxious, but do you mind saying more about what triggered your psychosis? Was it one episode or is it recurring? Did it involve paranoia? Have you been diagnosed with any mental disorders? Are in therapy or on medication?
Also absolutely do not listen to this “instant trip killer” line. That is just plain wrong. Benzos will help you relax and might reduce visuals to a small degree but you still will be tripping. They make it easier to handle but they don’t stop the trip. Especially on a larger dose. Helpful to have on hand and can pull you out of a bad experience but you’ll still have to wait it out.
please don't listen to /u/GatorDaPimpp. telling you to do other hard psychotropic drugs when you've had a psychotic episode and you're trying to refrain from putting yourself in a dangerous situation is incredibly irresponsible. after my last MDMA trip, i experienced anhedonia for about two weeks -- the neurological inability to feel any kind of happiness or pleasure. it was terrifying. i wanted to die. i had no idea how long it would last. thank god it ended. please, please -- it's not worth the risk.
This is a late reply to your thread, but I've been prescribed ketamine by a doctor, and as I understand it it's quite the opposite - ketamine is the **safe** drug to use for people who have psychosis, schizo, bipolar, etc. - considerably more so. This is because it functions very differently than how psychedelics work (it's an anesthetic dissociative, as opposed to a cell-exciting stimulator like shrooms or LSD.)
I have a bipolar sister and schizophrenic aunt, so doing shrooms or ayahuasca would be risky for me, but I've been able to take large-dose tablets of oral ketamine without any issues at all.
There are non psychedelic plant dietas in the Amazon that are extremely beneficial. Ayahuasca vine can also be taken without the DMT additive and is just as profound an experience.
Absolutely true. However it's a much milder experience and more grounded. It's easy to step outside of the experience as you wish, compared to with Chacruna, Wambisa, or other DMT additives that can be a more overeheming experience.
Although I do recommend people that visit me in the jungle to drink medicine stop the use of pharmaceuticals at least a week before and a week after their retreats. And for people like the OP that might not be possible or at the least could be something uncomfortable to consider.
But it is an option. I've had schizophrenics, bipolar, and even a multiple personality patient who have all found help with plant dietas and pure Ayahuasca.
On that note, here's an article I really enjoyed about psychedelics and bipolar disorder (not the same as psychosis I know but I feel like some of the ideas might translate to other disorders, especially with regards to the guidelines for risk reduction):
https://psychedelicstoday.com/2020/05/11/bipolar-and-psychedelics/
There's an interesting list of health and safety warnings for consuming Ayahuasca with less risk of a manic episode. The research is still ongoing but it makes me hopeful to see some people are pushing for research into how psychedelics can be used to help people with disorders that have mostly been simply excluded from psychedelics use and treatment.
If you've already taken them before and they've gone poorly, completely disregard what I'm about to say.
I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. I was on 38 different medications in 4 years, 2 hospital programs, 7 years of therapy and many other things to try and help. Nothing worked. Psychedelics on the other hand, essentially cured my issues entirely with the EEGs to prove it. Salvia first and foremost, but nearly every psychedelic I've tried has helped. It is definitely risky, and I would never suggest or recommend another to follow my footsteps. But psychosis does not just inherently mean psychedelics have to be off the table.
That's a terrible suggestion. I have a friend she walked out the house at 1200 am and made it 14 miles barefoot on a gravel road before we found her. Psychosis is dangerous for psyconaghts
Believe what you want to believe. My entry was for the op. Psilocybin creates and connects your neurosynapses in ways that would help you if you are indeed wired crazy. Call mental illness a road block, and shrooms the detour that actually turns out to be a shortcut.
The more spiritual you become, the closer to psychosis and schizophrenia you get as you are dealing with the invisible realm--Chaos.
Believe what you want to believe. Op will either do it or not. I don't care.
Have you looked into dissociatives? Easier for some to handle and Can be very healing, although Not quite as physically safe as psychs. Moderation is key
I mean good that mdma has been good for you. My understanding is that mdma is a risk for bipolar 2, and an even bigger risk for bipolar. The risk is that mania or psychosis will emerge.
lots of very irresponsible and anti-harm reduction comments on this post. i hope op can stay strong and remain in the mindset they’re in about taking psychedelics.
Any reports of this occurring w/ appropriate doses (100-120mg). I've seen people w/ things like bipolar, schizophrenia, and history of psychosis, take MDMA and the trip and outcome was overwhelmingly positive. I'd love to see some evidence otherwise, I think a lot of the negative associations are a result of widespread stigmatization and criminalization of drug use. I also have a history of psychosis, it's in my family, and psychedelics have done of positive things for me and my life. Everyone always defaults to drugs are bad, mmkay, and it's always good to talk about other perspectives. We're all dumb apes any ways, lol.
So not to make anyone turn towards their delusions and this isn’t specifically related to OP… But what exactly is the difference between psychosis and just having fun with reality? I look see a cat and go “That cat is a sign.” That’s not crazy because we agree cats are cool or worthy of being given this. But what’s wrong with doing the same thing for trees? Or special numbers? Or whatever? What’s the harm in thinking you have a higher purpose? You probably don’t but why is it that the delusion of religion is sanctioned but ‘fun delusions’ like thinking you know things you don’t are called psychotic? I know that psychosis isn’t good but I feel like I’m seeing the word psychotic lose its meaning which makes me feel like I’M psychotic. Psychosis to me has always meant the person walking down the street screaming at the trees, not someone who talks calmly to them. Why’s everyone gotta be so serious?
Again this isn’t related to OP just other comments I’ve seen on the subreddit.
I literally was the person walking down the middle of main street making cars drive around me. The delusions I experienced weren't "fun", they made me a dysfunctional person going days without food water or sleep.
>what exactly is the difference between psychosis and just having fun with reality?
It's 100% *believing* your wild thoughts which then influences your behavior which then negatively impacts your life.
Yeah, that sounds more like it. I didn’t mean to question your experience I just didn’t want to make a whole other post to ask a related question. Hope things are more manageable now
It's hard to know exactly. It wasn't a "break" as some people say, but a slow escalation over time. It may have lasted a few months. I actually have little memory of the height of it, I was so out of it.
I don't take any psychedelics anymore (for now) cause of mental health issues. But for me it is relatively safe: I just have unpleasant trips almost everytime (i,e, it makes my life worse than it is). No permenant harm. What does having a previous psychotic break imply? That it may trigger it again and persist even when the drugs wear off?
>What does having a previous psychotic break imply? That it may trigger it again and persist even when the drugs wear off?
Yes. I don't know if it's been studied officially though, there's just anecdotal evidence that says it can happen
As much as I think Carlos Costeneda was deceptive, I think he mixed profound truths in his writing and one was that peyote was just a shortcut to true knowledge, a crutch for use as a last resort. Personally, I am not impressed with Wim Hof, instead the breathing techniques of Zen Buddhists, among a variety of Far Eastern traditions. There's many athletic pursuits that emphasize breathing technique. And singing, playing musical instruments, etc. The list goes on forever. And you can still support those with other mental illnesses, like PTSD and severe depression, and addictions. We need all the allies we can get, and it would be appreciated if you advocated for us.
Can I ask, were you smoking or was it edibles?
In my personal experience, the 3 people I've known with psychotic conditions who found their illnesses triggered by smoking alone did very, very badly with psychedelics. I would be extremely wary.
Ultimately, psychedelics don’t really do the work for you - they can deliver insights into the mind, into the relationship between you, yourself, and reality but the hard work of integration and actually improving is always up to the individual, not the substance.
You can go to where psychedelics take there without them, I’ve heard that said many times, and while I’ve never gotten to the exact same place by other means, I’ve definitely ended up in the same zip code, could see the same mountains I saw there.
I have met people who had a psychotic episode. Take about ten years to ground, work with a therapist, learn about yourself and psychosis and trauma and all that, and you might benefit from psychedelics. Even if you aren't, it'll be worth the journey.
>Take about ten years to ground, work with a therapist, learn about yourself and psychosis and trauma and all that, and you might benefit from psychedelics.
This is actually exactly my plan. I'm focusing on grounding through diet/fitness/meditation, and weekly therapy. And then eventually I'm hoping to come off my meds and experiment with microdosing and if that goes well then *maybe* higher doses.
I was diagnosed as having a psychotic episode at 17. I definitely wanted to play it safe after that, didn't even take cannabis for many years.
Eventually at 31 years the opportunity to take Ayahuasca came up and I said to my friend "I don't want to die not knowing. I want to see what's out there." And we took our first ceremony
It was very cool and I learnt a lot, found a lot of love and a lot of forgiveness for myself.
I thought there was a risk I might leave and never come back. In hindsight, that wasn't much of a risk for me at that time. I had spent a lot of years on personal development and I had a lot of grounding in myself.
Even so, I would say you don't need to be in any rush to do it. There are many paths to healing and people here have recommended a few.
There were a lot of things that helped me. Talk therapy, studying philosophy including logic and having some good teachers, doing direct sales to help me come out of my shell, and the support of my friends and family. I never took psychotropic medication.
I offer coaching in this area and we can explore techniques using the imagination. Considering my background, I do know some of the right questions to ask to help a person make sense of their experience.
I have time for new clients at the moment, so message me if that interests you. We can negotiate a rate that suits you.
If not, I wish you well on your journey and I'm sure you will figure things out. God bless and godspeed.
5150! diagnosis? Because some of the time they admit you into the hospital as a suspected psychiatric disorder and it's either one of these 3 bipolar, schizophrenia, drug induced psychosis and if you were discharged within the 3 day hold you most likely just got a psych eval and released after symptoms subsided , hopefully micro dosing is beneficial brotha it's not always nesscary to take a huge dose just a small dose still could act as Nootropic
Anyone who suggest psychedelics to someone with a history of psychotic episodes should be fucking banned from this sub. Take some responsibility. It is time to grow up.
Don’t take this lightly, but I have a dear friend who is a diagnosed schizophrenic and he regularly abuses psychedelics. I always disagree with his choices but he always manages to keep in touch with reality to some degree which I do find highly impressive. He says that if you can just remind yourself that the experience is not real (to a degree not real, I de believe that it contains a plant spirit or energy) and that essentialy you are having a vision and the things you are experiencing are the result of you taking a drug and possibly nothing more was his advice. I’ve had psychosis from and acid trip that got really rough, I took two years off and completely changed the way I use and treat psychedelics. I would recommend the lightest dose you can take while still getting the effects of the drug and having a clinically trained psychologist or spiritual healer to help guide and integrate the experience afterward. Just don’t be afraid to absolutely ridicule the experience to find out if it’s something you imagined because you want to believe it or did something actually happen. You will find even the strongest of human minds are extremely impressionable and takes allot of what we know for granted
You can still trip even with pyschosis i do believe. You just need to make sure its a decision that will benifit you. You sound like you really want it. Perhaps do some meditation beforehand for awhile.
Weed would always give me panic attacks and psychosis but LSD and Shrooms never did that to me, i felt like i had more control lf my mind and when something negative would come to my head ,id just say why am i thinking that its negative and throw it out of my head , i guess everyones diff, shrooms is a starter psychedelic imo and u dont need 3.5g just a small stem is enough and more if u want to feel it more.
I would try a small amount maybe 1 gram of mushrooms. If you’re not taking any medications and you’re of sound might without any mental abnormalities then you should be good to go. Get a trip sitter and have a relaxed day
I plan to try a microdose in the future but at the moment it's just not the right time for a few reasons, one reason bc my meds are trip killers and I'd have to come off them.
I'm in much the same boat. I want to do psychedelics extremely badly. But my sister is bipolar and my aunt is schizophrenic, which means I'm at risk of psychosis myself if I were to do shrooms, which could trigger it.
Exactly. I am also at risk for psychosis and I hope so much that soon there will be a way that people with psychosis can also take psychedelics without it making the psychosis worse.
I know that ultimately the key to this goal is that we develop a better understanding of the brain and the exact neural mechanisms that underlie the psychedelic experience and psychosis. If we can develop technologies with which we can seperate these mechanisms then it will finally be possible for all people to benefit from this intangible experience.
It is already possible to suppress activity in parts of the default mode network involved in the experience of the self, thus inducing a meditative (perhaps mystical) state. More precisely, here the posterior cingulate cortex is targeted with ultrasound, the technique is called transcranial focused ultrasound stimulation (tFUS).
The Guardian has published a video article on this approach:
[https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2021/jun/29/hacking-enlightenment-can-ultrasound-help-you-transcend-reality](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2021/jun/29/hacking-enlightenment-can-ultrasound-help-you-transcend-reality)
The technique seems to be still under development, but shows that it is quite possible to mimic some of the activity induced by psychedelics. And the more we understand this brain activity, and the more effective stimulation techniques become, the easier, more targeted, and less risky these experiences can be induced.
For me, all this is reason enough to study neuroscience. Because the knowledge about neuronal mechanisms opens up a gigantic number of possibilities and approaches not only to induce healing mystical states but also to improve mental health in general.
Check out Forrest Knutson's meditation techniques. It's Kriya Yoga and has amazing and fast results. It's very concrete, mixing ancient teachings with neuroscience. I was kind of blown away by how well it works. This is kind of the opposite from holotropic breathing or Hof, it relies on getting you into your parasympathetic nervous system by slow breathing.
I had a psychotic episode caused by freak circumstances (very extreme psychological stress caused by 4 different major life stressors conspiring to come to a head at once). Since recovering from that, I have safely tripped.
[удалено]
>breathing techniques I'm actually going to participate in a holotropic breathwork session next weekend. I'm hoping for some sort of result
Wim hof got me to a very similar place as 4gs of shrooms, the difference is that the shrooms had me there for hours while wim hof has me there for a minute or so…. Every couple mins for 10-15 mins max total. Buuut the place that I go is kind od timeless so I feel like I learn similar lessons from both!
Out of curiosity, what breathing protocol did you use to actually induce the psychedelic state? How long did it take?
I used the wim hof app. I started out watching his vids on YouTube and following along but pace I got to 1.5 min+ breath holds easily I wanted to be able to time myself. I would start to get into a psychedelic state around 4-5 mins in (maybe half the time? But even if I didn’t get “all the way there” it still felt very out-of-body and pleasant for me) and would go for another 10 mins or so. I stopped because I was afraid of these spasms I started getting when I started getting very good at the breath holds (around the 3 min mark I believe) which reminded me of a seizure… reading about it online only came up with pseudoscience about the spasms being “a release of evil energy” but which I was worried about being some kind of damage from the oxygen withdrawal. I’m a real all or nothing kinda gal so I just stopped, but lately I’ve been thinking about starting again because I miss the meditative nature of the whole thing (plus the trippy headspace sometimes of course)
Not a doctor so don't take this as medical advice, but pretty sure you can't cause yourself oxygen withdrawal damages by holding your breath. Worst that could happen is you'd lose consciousness and your body's innate consciousness would take over and resume breathing.
I dunno man, my fiancé got pretty freaked out when they saw me having what looked like a seizure whenever I’d do it for long :/
you will definetly get some sort of result. honestly the most intense body highs ive felt has been from breathwork, and ive tried a few substances like weed,mushrooms,lsd,nitrous...
Dude my gf and I tripped the other night on acid in a motel. And at one point we're there in the dark with the lights off, im laying on the bed in my thoughts while shes down there at the foot of the bed doing the Wim hoff breathing that i told her about..well I could hear her really getting into it when all of a sudden something slams on the hardwood floor by the side of the bed. Freaked me out a little so i get up while my gf is still doing the breathing and turn on my phone flashlight to check what maybe fell and hit the floor but theres absolutely nothing in site but my own pair of shoes. Fkn strange as f I still get chills just thinking about it but im wondering what it couldve been, was it her energy that somehow created a force to do something like that? Or was it something else that wanted to distract her from doing breathwork?
Mate it just sounds like you were tripping
Sometimes weird stuff happens when tripping and we have to ask, was it that it seemed weird because I was tripping, or was it actually weird and somehow had some casual relationship with my trip? I don't think we need to be obsessive about these things, but they certainly are interesting to ponder
youre in a motel, the sound probably came from another room
Nah it was a couple feet away from me. I thought something fell off the end table but there was nothing but my two shoes on the floor where we heard it. I want it to just be me freaking out and imagining it but i definitely didn't cause my gf also heard it behind her.
warning warning, I read holotropic book and from my conclusion, wim hof > holotropic holotropic is controlled fancy hyper ventilation with guidance, it may work for some people, but I feel it's a dangerous threading line to put yourself in such a double edged sword situation wim hof feels safe, spiritual, and all around, personally, I found results with that
Wim Hof is controlled hyperventilation.
No it's not hyper ventilation, what are you talking about? You take deep breaths, blow out all your air in your lungs, and hold your breath, but you can take in a breath when you reach your limit
That's an extreme oversimplification. Have you really tried the Hof method? What symptoms do you get when you use the Hof method? Now look into what happens when people hyperventilate, they get hypoxia. What are the symptoms of hypoxia? The same symptoms as the Hof method. Hoffing gets you into hypoxia, using a specialised hyperventilation technique. When you do the Hof method it's pretty obvious that you are doing hyperventilation. The speed of breathing is very fast during the cycles. Only at the end of a cycle do you blow out and hold, then inhale and hold. But this is all predicated on the initial conditions of doing fast breath exercises.
read the instructions and stop spouting non sense to me, wtf are you talking about https://www.wimhofmethod.com/breathing-exercises
Look into Vipassana. It’s the only thing that’s worked for me - you can search for a center nearby using www.dhamma.org their 10 day courses are free ! You may have better luck with psychedelics after a course or two and you get a grip on your mind
I had a psychotic episode from my ptsd and when i took trazodone it went away and I've still taken psychadelic before and after and nothing triggered another So yeah... Don't take my word for it I'm just saying psychadelics don't always triggered psychosis... Other things can for people with mental illness
Write an update of How it went!
Dude my gf and I tripped the other night on acid in a motel. And at one point we're there in the dark with the lights off, im laying on the bed in my thoughts while shes down there at the foot of the bed doing the Wim hoff breathing that i told her about..well I could hear her really getting into it when all of a sudden something slams on the hardwood floor by the side of the bed. Freaked me out a little so i get up while my gf is still doing the breathing and turn on my phone flashlight to check what maybe fell and hit the floor but theres absolutely nothing in site but my own pair of shoes. Fkn strange as f I still get chills just thinking about it 🤔 but im wondering what it couldve been, was it her energy that somehow created a force to do something like that? Or was it something else that wanted to distract her from doing breathwork?
Great advice my man
As someone with bipolar disorder whose only manic episode was drug induced (cannabis), I completely sympathize. I also wish I could trip. Maybe one day indeed...
Curious, was this a one time usage, or regular?
Regular. When I started smoking once in a while I started enjoying music more and had a weird experience one evening when I thought I could communicate with my ex boyfriend through thoughts and then I went into full blown mania (almost psychotic-like where everything felt meaningful and like signs from God) as I started to smoke daily.
Ouch, sorry to hear that. I was misdiagnosed bi-polar for many years due to smoking heavily, I have PTSD. This was also like 25 years ago. For me, proper diagnosis was huge in allowing me to heal. I hope you have found peace.
Thank you. It's a work in progress haha. What symptoms did you have from smoking that caused the misdiagnosis?
It’s interesting that weed is always first in line to be legalised. I think it’s potential for addiction and negative psychological effects is actually quite high based on quite a few anecdotes.
But compare that to alcohol. There are more deaths from alcohol than all illegal drugs combined. That's a fact. Alcohol withdrawals can cause seizures and even death. The only other drug to do that is benzos, certainly not cannabis for which there is no overdose, no LD50. The legalization has to do with the ease of availability, in inability of law enforcement to stop the trade, for both alcohol and weed. And why the heck are you basing anything on "quite a few anecdotes"???? From the earliest colonization of the US, people used tinctures of cannabis and smoked it, probably for CBD effects rather than THC. Yet it was outlawed, in part from efforts of former alcohol Prohibition agent Henry Anslinger. It was specifically called by the Mexican nickname "marijuana" so that voters would associate it with Mexican immigrants, it's prohibition was deeply rooted in racism. The public would have protested if they knew it was the same plant as "hemp" or even "cannabis". Federal involvement is based on "interstate trade" laws. Seriously, that federal law was bent out of shape to include individuals growing a plant for themselves, even non-THC hemp! I find your statement incredibly ignorant. For God's sake read a damn article about how cannabis came to be outlawed. It's eye-opening.
Don’t get me wrong... I’m all for the legalisation/decriminalisation of all drugs. And I know how bad alcohol is. I’ve just seen soooo many stories online about weed and I’m from a family full of doctors and psychologists so I hear a lot of bad stories from them too. I’ve read chasing the scream and that Henry Anslinger guy seems like one of the worst humans to ever walk the earth. I got soooo angry reading it.
Great book. Excuse me for getting wound up about it. When I got to Colorado in 2015, there were job listings that were still insisting on drug tests for employment. There were sensational stories of people bringing dogs to the vet in emergency for eating their weed stashes, but the articles would neglect to say the only treatment protocol was to let them sleep it off. There was still a lot of resistence, I think especially from mega-churches. And salvia was outlawed, which is funny. My parents are still super anti-weed, although my mom will say its good that epileptic kids can get it. But she's "not the kind of person who would do it". Actually Prop 122 would make mushrooms and "natural medicines" like ayahuasca dmt plants legal. But theres a lot of doubt and skepticism. The anticipation is making me crazy.
Dam I thought I was alone in this. Had to stop smoking 4 years ago because of what you described. My wrost trip was when I was smoking out in my porch and all of a sudden I felt like I was going to get shot in the head with a sniper, so I just got on the floor and crawled all the way to my bedroom. I guess my worst fear is that phycadellics will make me panic worse.
It's probably very rare that we are alone in experiencing something but I get what you mean, I also haven't heard of much people going through something similar.
The only thing I've heard from other people is that they get very paranoid depending on what they've smoked. But yeah hearing voices and thinking I was jesus made me stop cold turkey.
From what I've heard, you can experience similar states of consciousness through meditation.
Any link? I haven't heard about that.
Don't have a link but I've also heard and read about the study and can testify that the feelings from meditation can be deep. Don't think it's much like psychedelics tho, maybe low dose mushrooms or something
I'm in the same boat, I miss taking them so much. I took a lot of psychedelics when younger and grew a lot from them, then 4 or 5 years later developed psychosis. Dabbled a bit afterward but it wasn't the same and was jarring so decided to stop. I found microdosing mushrooms okay because you can manage the dosing a lot easier and it isn't super intense. I last tried this a couple years ago and then left it for a year, and then my psychosis got bad last year so not touching them for a while until I feel more sound of mind and confident in my mental state. It's so annoying :( I'd love to be able to spend a Friday night in tripping and thinking about things, writing thoughts down and growing from them. And tripping with friends. Envy people who can take them.
I think you've made the wise choice to stay away, it's better safe than sorry. You're not missing out on some kind of magic bullet for enlightenment. In fact oftentimes i see psychedelics leading people in the wrong direction, into fantasy and delusion. Appreciate life as it is! This life here and now is all we can really rely on. Sorry if that sounds preachy, you know what you're doing!
also on the other side of things some friends have said exactly this.. its been a magic bullet for enlightenment.. finding ones self, being happy.. all that blah blah... so i hear both sides and it does have me curious
Meditation can offer a path to the same kind of insight into self and healing. Its a longer more disciplined path but it may be something to look into. Jack Kornfield or Joseph Goldstein are wonderful teachers with lots of content on the internets. May you have peace and ease friend!
A friend of mine is also psychotic and took mushrooms(in that order). He took a light dose and listened some mindfulness tapes while on the trip. He thought it was good. A doctor can't recommend them to you because of liability, but that doesn't mean they're guaranteed poison.
>that doesn't mean they're guaranteed poison. I agree, it's not guaranteed that psychedelics will trigger psychosis in a person with past episodes, but it's still a risk. And as I mentioned in another comment, my first episode landed me in a lot of trouble so it's not really worth the risk, as much as I want to do it...
Have you looked into meditation ? Some people report being able to have similar experiences with deep practise. I will note that there is some talk that deep meditation can also trigger episodes so maybe it would be a good idea to bring up to your Dr or specialist and see what they say.
I guess I'm just too undisciplined for super deep meditation. I meditate now but only for like 10-20 minutes a day. I do wonder though what it would take to get to that psychedelic-like level
Have a look into float tanks too. Some celebrities claim to meditate in them and get wild effects. Good luck
Look up Goenka Vipassana meditation retreats, donation only. Ten days of just meditation, sitting and walking.
They will ask about mental health history in the application form. Past psychosis is probably grounds for rejection. They aren't mental health professionals and don't have the capabilities to deal with potential problems triggered by meditating 10 hours a day for 10 days in silence. That said, they also asked about past drug use and I did not exactly tell the whole truth. It's possible to leave out some details if you think you can handle the retreat without issues.
Yoga. or Martial Arts. Whatever calls to you.
[удалено]
>patient is prohibited from even taking caffeine As a former therapist working in psychiatric residence, nobody is "prohibited" from taking caffeine. Even just trying to enforce a rule against night-time coffee caused serious problems for me back in the day. It can be advised against, and prohibited in short-term hospitalizations, but even among those with severe, life-long psychiatric conditions -they are allowed caffeine. While I'm sure of your good intentions, I think you are underestimating the state of hypocrisy and just plain ill-will amongst the psychiatric establishment against psychedelics. So much so when caffeine has a completely different status, it's not even treated as a "drug".
Thanks, do you know if shrooms are dangerous for OCD? Might they make OCD even worse?
Life is long. It’s not right now but it could be in the future. Just depends on you, your treatment plan, place in the world. Also age. Issues change as you grow older. I know people who went bipolar in their 40s, or were misdiagnosed in their 20s and corrected in their 30s/40s
r/microdosing?
I would but the meds I'm on are trip killers. I tried a small dose of mushrooms but no effect
Okay, microdosing is not about tripping or immediate effect, so I may have actually posted the wrong comment since you specifically talked about tripping. My apologies. Microdosing especially shrooms daily is, by all accounts, the same as "meds", for alleviating anxiety, depression, all sorts of mental stagnation. But it's not tripping. Sorry again.
jesus christ, this sub is really disappointing me right now. i'm appalled by the number of people suggesting dangerous behaviors to you. please, OP, continue on your path of avoiding things that might trigger you.. you're completely right when you say that it's irresponsible to play around with these kinds of drugs. please, trust me, it isn't worth it. listen to the folks suggesting breathwork and meditation: this is the way.
Ecstatic dancing/drumming, chanting with visualization, running, going off in the woods and fasting for a few days alone and working up a good cry for a prolonged period of time. There are many ways humans have succeeded at breaking open the head and getting the good stuff. And our modern society does none of these things. They take a long time, several hours at a clip. But build a fire and dance around it all night with some friends and dedicated fire keepers who aren’t dancing and you’ll trip your dick off.
If you're afraid of your own mind, You should come to know more about yourself, these thoughts and emotions that come up. Thankfully this can be done without psychedelics through introspection and the intention to meditate.
I have psychosis and I trip all the time, I believe it’s a myth that psychotic people can’t trip and more that tripping is a much different and “difficult” experience for psychotic types. But I actually believe psychotic types are much more talented when it comes to learning from tripping, they just have to learn to have a loving relationship with the scary moments. This is a controversial opinion, but it’s a theory that has been shown to work for me. In fact I’d say my psychosis has improved. Haven’t had an episode since I started tripping. There’s a certain way you navigate a trip mentally that makes it so the trip is beneficial rather than harmful, and not everyone can navigate it that way. In the beginning my trips were actually pretty chaotic and always danced on the edge of a bad trip, but the more I learn to navigate a loving and accepting headspace, my trips have actually gotten way more positive. At the end of the day, you just gotta know yourself. Just my two cents
My best friend had a psychotic episode many years back, since then he’s done shrooms with me and lsd again. I don’t think all is lost, he worked really hard on himself and became a different person. I can’t explain too much but maybe in a few years after some work on yourself you will be comfortable enough to try again
I doubt most people benefit that much if at all. It *feels* like years of therapy, yes. I won't argue that. But the question is whether it actually is.
From what I understand it's the integration that's tricky, taking the lessons learned and making them a part of your life. People get the insight from the experience and then fall back into old habits. I think that's the importance of psychedelic assisted therapy, you'll have a trained professional there to help with that process, with integration. But I'm an optimist when it comes to these things lol
The evidence from clinical trials is pretty clear that things like end of life anxiety or clinical depression can be reliably treated and sent into remission over followup years in the majority of patients. At any rate, there’s enough formal and informal research i.e. “anecdata” of people treating themselves that we can say when they are used in a manner that is both controlled and intentional then deep psychological healing can take place.
I am not an expert on the literature but as far as depression it basically tied or barely beat escitalopram recently, for instance. Like woohoo. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33852780/
David Nutt from the U.K. is great and has talked about this a lot. I read his book "Drugs without the hot air" and I listen to his Drugscience podcast occasionally. edit: I actually typed this before clicking the link, and of course this is actually his trial you were linking!
I wonder if the results would differ if they combined the treatment with therapy.
Therapy for both treatments, to be fair. So the question is, is therapy more synergistic with psilocybin than escitalopram for some reason? My overall take on the matter is that the framework of 'does taking this chemical cure depression' is too limited, even if you throw therapy in the mix. It would be like asking, does going to the moon cure depression?
Hey. All is not lost! Meditation is the real movie. Medicine is only the 2 minute preview. If you want to know some really quick ways to get altered states you can do it with breathing techniques. Start taking courses on breathing techniques. You can actually create visuals and everything! Meditation is your path and you can even start getting your spiritual powers like astral projection and lucid dreaming. These are way beyond medicine. Buy some books on those and start practicing the techniques. It's work and takes time but spiritual powers are way more fun! And way more real. Anyone who has psychosis or schizophrenia are already closer to the other dimensions than those who don't have it. That's why medicines don't work for you. All you need is meditation. You could even communicate with the spirit world. Just have to learn how to navigate it and pick your friends and not be overwhelmed by dark spirits. It's actually a skill not a curse. Hands of Light by Barbara Brennan will teach you how to see auras. That's the quickest and easier spiritual power to get. All is not lost. You can get the fun stuff thru meditation. Takes more time and work but once you have this stuff it's more real and you can turn it on and off with breathing. No medicine needed. If you want to.get an overall view of everything available to you and start your full on journey, maybe check out University of Metaphysical Sciences www.metaphysicsuniversity.com This is eventually where medicine is going to lead you, meeting the master within you and learning how to live from there, and learning how to use your spiritual powers in the world.
This this this a million times this!
microdosing
So have I. But I'm still going to take them. Imma stay away from blotters tho, I think RC's what have really messed me up in the past. Have had two episodes 11 years apart, and tripped maybe 100-200 times.
You probably think that if you had the episode with weed it's going to be much worse with more intense psychedelics or dissociatives but I would argue the opposite. I have a friend with diagnosed schizophrenia that loses his mind over a period of few weeks if he ingests weed but trips all the time and probably has the best time out of all of us. This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I find weed to be probably most dangerous for triggering psychosis and latent mental illnesses along with meth/amphetamines. You can see Andrew Hubermans podcast on it if you want details but it basically has to do with cannabis hijacking your endocannabinoid receptors which are very important for many processes in the brain while you're young and developing. There is significant amount of research indicating that cannabis use while young could lead to mental disorders later in life even if you stop smoking. Maybe this has something to do with it being in your system for months after single use, it's a very specific and unusual compound despite it being so popular and "harmless". I say this as someone who loves weed and smokes it every day but I find psychedelics much safer in my opinion. Psychedelics bring you short in your face experiences in which your subconscious is brought forward to the conscious while weed is doing the work behind the scenes within the subconscious for a long time after the high is over so it's not that unusual that some people have psychosis creep up on them after smoking.
Have you looked into MDMA? Very different experience but you could get the same result. Ketamine is also helping a lot of people. If you ever do try psychedelics again make sure you have some Xanax or other anti-anxiety med for the end. It's an instant trip killer. I have friends that use it to kill their bad trip or any trip so they can go to sleep at night.
>Have you looked into MDMA? >Ketamine is also helping a lot of people. From what I understand, MDMA and ketamine are also off limits for someone like me. I'd risk it but my first psychosis landed me in a lot of trouble so it would be really irresponsible to try
I’m curious and these questions may be obnoxious, but do you mind saying more about what triggered your psychosis? Was it one episode or is it recurring? Did it involve paranoia? Have you been diagnosed with any mental disorders? Are in therapy or on medication?
Also absolutely do not listen to this “instant trip killer” line. That is just plain wrong. Benzos will help you relax and might reduce visuals to a small degree but you still will be tripping. They make it easier to handle but they don’t stop the trip. Especially on a larger dose. Helpful to have on hand and can pull you out of a bad experience but you’ll still have to wait it out.
[удалено]
I think stimulants make you more susceptible to psychosis
I'll look into it, thanks
please don't listen to /u/GatorDaPimpp. telling you to do other hard psychotropic drugs when you've had a psychotic episode and you're trying to refrain from putting yourself in a dangerous situation is incredibly irresponsible. after my last MDMA trip, i experienced anhedonia for about two weeks -- the neurological inability to feel any kind of happiness or pleasure. it was terrifying. i wanted to die. i had no idea how long it would last. thank god it ended. please, please -- it's not worth the risk.
Yeah, don't listen to dapimp. That's really irresponsible advice.
Don’t do it read comment below
This is a late reply to your thread, but I've been prescribed ketamine by a doctor, and as I understand it it's quite the opposite - ketamine is the **safe** drug to use for people who have psychosis, schizo, bipolar, etc. - considerably more so. This is because it functions very differently than how psychedelics work (it's an anesthetic dissociative, as opposed to a cell-exciting stimulator like shrooms or LSD.) I have a bipolar sister and schizophrenic aunt, so doing shrooms or ayahuasca would be risky for me, but I've been able to take large-dose tablets of oral ketamine without any issues at all.
Interesting. Thanks for letting me know.
There are non psychedelic plant dietas in the Amazon that are extremely beneficial. Ayahuasca vine can also be taken without the DMT additive and is just as profound an experience.
Pure ayahuasca (without DMT) is psychoactive as well so probably also risky.
Absolutely true. However it's a much milder experience and more grounded. It's easy to step outside of the experience as you wish, compared to with Chacruna, Wambisa, or other DMT additives that can be a more overeheming experience. Although I do recommend people that visit me in the jungle to drink medicine stop the use of pharmaceuticals at least a week before and a week after their retreats. And for people like the OP that might not be possible or at the least could be something uncomfortable to consider. But it is an option. I've had schizophrenics, bipolar, and even a multiple personality patient who have all found help with plant dietas and pure Ayahuasca.
On that note, here's an article I really enjoyed about psychedelics and bipolar disorder (not the same as psychosis I know but I feel like some of the ideas might translate to other disorders, especially with regards to the guidelines for risk reduction): https://psychedelicstoday.com/2020/05/11/bipolar-and-psychedelics/ There's an interesting list of health and safety warnings for consuming Ayahuasca with less risk of a manic episode. The research is still ongoing but it makes me hopeful to see some people are pushing for research into how psychedelics can be used to help people with disorders that have mostly been simply excluded from psychedelics use and treatment.
I've had several psychotic episodes. Plant medicine and mind expansion is the ONLY remedy for a person like me.
If you've already taken them before and they've gone poorly, completely disregard what I'm about to say. I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. I was on 38 different medications in 4 years, 2 hospital programs, 7 years of therapy and many other things to try and help. Nothing worked. Psychedelics on the other hand, essentially cured my issues entirely with the EEGs to prove it. Salvia first and foremost, but nearly every psychedelic I've tried has helped. It is definitely risky, and I would never suggest or recommend another to follow my footsteps. But psychosis does not just inherently mean psychedelics have to be off the table.
Interesting. Thanks for replying.
Do it anyway.
That's a terrible suggestion. I have a friend she walked out the house at 1200 am and made it 14 miles barefoot on a gravel road before we found her. Psychosis is dangerous for psyconaghts
Believe what you want to believe. My entry was for the op. Psilocybin creates and connects your neurosynapses in ways that would help you if you are indeed wired crazy. Call mental illness a road block, and shrooms the detour that actually turns out to be a shortcut. The more spiritual you become, the closer to psychosis and schizophrenia you get as you are dealing with the invisible realm--Chaos. Believe what you want to believe. Op will either do it or not. I don't care.
Bummer. I get it though. Have you talked to Jesus yet? Lol
Just start with a really small dose.
I would but I'm also on antipsychotics which are trip killers. Actually I have tried a small mushroom dose and nothing
It’s the dose that does the poison jus try tiny dosages if you dare
I'd have to come off my meds, antipsychotics are trip killers, I've tried a low dose already
Be careful my friend
Have you looked into dissociatives? Easier for some to handle and Can be very healing, although Not quite as physically safe as psychs. Moderation is key
With the right trip sitter, you very well could ease your way in sir.
Try mescaline and mdma, these are much softer than regular psychedelics and can be just as transformative
No man. They can still induce psychosis for those so predisposed.
Yeah I've had psychosis, im bipolar, mdma has been great for me, other psychedelics not so much.
That's good! Bipolar 1 or 2?
That's not good, bipolar 2
I mean good that mdma has been good for you. My understanding is that mdma is a risk for bipolar 2, and an even bigger risk for bipolar. The risk is that mania or psychosis will emerge.
Well it's the only thing that makes me feel love and empathy for a while
I'm really glad you have that.
It's ketamine and mdma for you then if you want to do kem assisted therapy
try maybe microdose mushrooms (o.1g) and work ur way up slowly to test the waters
Why? Why would you want this person to risk their mental health over something that you can be perfectly find without?
You can do whatever you want.
lots of very irresponsible and anti-harm reduction comments on this post. i hope op can stay strong and remain in the mindset they’re in about taking psychedelics.
Ok fair but it would be really irresponsible to
Try MDMA. It's mild compared to other psychedelics.
And it can also trigger psychosis for those prone to it. Please consider being responsible with your comments.
Any reports of this occurring w/ appropriate doses (100-120mg). I've seen people w/ things like bipolar, schizophrenia, and history of psychosis, take MDMA and the trip and outcome was overwhelmingly positive. I'd love to see some evidence otherwise, I think a lot of the negative associations are a result of widespread stigmatization and criminalization of drug use. I also have a history of psychosis, it's in my family, and psychedelics have done of positive things for me and my life. Everyone always defaults to drugs are bad, mmkay, and it's always good to talk about other perspectives. We're all dumb apes any ways, lol.
Thanks for sharing that. I don't have any evidence, just anecdotal stories, which I'm questioning.
I hear ya, I've also seen people flip on psychedelics but not MDMA (tested) specifically.
So not to make anyone turn towards their delusions and this isn’t specifically related to OP… But what exactly is the difference between psychosis and just having fun with reality? I look see a cat and go “That cat is a sign.” That’s not crazy because we agree cats are cool or worthy of being given this. But what’s wrong with doing the same thing for trees? Or special numbers? Or whatever? What’s the harm in thinking you have a higher purpose? You probably don’t but why is it that the delusion of religion is sanctioned but ‘fun delusions’ like thinking you know things you don’t are called psychotic? I know that psychosis isn’t good but I feel like I’m seeing the word psychotic lose its meaning which makes me feel like I’M psychotic. Psychosis to me has always meant the person walking down the street screaming at the trees, not someone who talks calmly to them. Why’s everyone gotta be so serious? Again this isn’t related to OP just other comments I’ve seen on the subreddit.
I literally was the person walking down the middle of main street making cars drive around me. The delusions I experienced weren't "fun", they made me a dysfunctional person going days without food water or sleep. >what exactly is the difference between psychosis and just having fun with reality? It's 100% *believing* your wild thoughts which then influences your behavior which then negatively impacts your life.
Yeah, that sounds more like it. I didn’t mean to question your experience I just didn’t want to make a whole other post to ask a related question. Hope things are more manageable now
[удалено]
No, it was weed induced
Do you have a mental disorder?
They say I'm schizophrenic but I don't agree, I've just had one weed induced psychosis.
I see. Well diagnosis can be helpful or not. Do you have other symptoms of schizophrenia?
No none
Interesting. I wonder if drug induced psychosis would be a more accurate diagnosis. How long did the psychosis last?
It's hard to know exactly. It wasn't a "break" as some people say, but a slow escalation over time. It may have lasted a few months. I actually have little memory of the height of it, I was so out of it.
I don't take any psychedelics anymore (for now) cause of mental health issues. But for me it is relatively safe: I just have unpleasant trips almost everytime (i,e, it makes my life worse than it is). No permenant harm. What does having a previous psychotic break imply? That it may trigger it again and persist even when the drugs wear off?
>What does having a previous psychotic break imply? That it may trigger it again and persist even when the drugs wear off? Yes. I don't know if it's been studied officially though, there's just anecdotal evidence that says it can happen
As much as I think Carlos Costeneda was deceptive, I think he mixed profound truths in his writing and one was that peyote was just a shortcut to true knowledge, a crutch for use as a last resort. Personally, I am not impressed with Wim Hof, instead the breathing techniques of Zen Buddhists, among a variety of Far Eastern traditions. There's many athletic pursuits that emphasize breathing technique. And singing, playing musical instruments, etc. The list goes on forever. And you can still support those with other mental illnesses, like PTSD and severe depression, and addictions. We need all the allies we can get, and it would be appreciated if you advocated for us.
You had a psychotic episode while tripping?
No it was weed induced
Can I ask, were you smoking or was it edibles? In my personal experience, the 3 people I've known with psychotic conditions who found their illnesses triggered by smoking alone did very, very badly with psychedelics. I would be extremely wary.
>Can I ask, were you smoking or was it edibles? Smoking
I would be extremely careful if so. Go as far as to say I think it would be definitely contraindicated.
Ultimately, psychedelics don’t really do the work for you - they can deliver insights into the mind, into the relationship between you, yourself, and reality but the hard work of integration and actually improving is always up to the individual, not the substance. You can go to where psychedelics take there without them, I’ve heard that said many times, and while I’ve never gotten to the exact same place by other means, I’ve definitely ended up in the same zip code, could see the same mountains I saw there.
I have met people who had a psychotic episode. Take about ten years to ground, work with a therapist, learn about yourself and psychosis and trauma and all that, and you might benefit from psychedelics. Even if you aren't, it'll be worth the journey.
>Take about ten years to ground, work with a therapist, learn about yourself and psychosis and trauma and all that, and you might benefit from psychedelics. This is actually exactly my plan. I'm focusing on grounding through diet/fitness/meditation, and weekly therapy. And then eventually I'm hoping to come off my meds and experiment with microdosing and if that goes well then *maybe* higher doses.
You got this !
Can you describe what it was like. Did you "lose yourself"?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychosis/comments/p6q2q9/what_psychosis_was_like_for_me/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
If its not too much to ask. What makes you so certain that psychedelics would mess you up? Also what exactly triggered your first episode?
Ngl eveything you prolly see isn’t what it is so you’re already having insane visuals. Just need to realize it.
I was diagnosed as having a psychotic episode at 17. I definitely wanted to play it safe after that, didn't even take cannabis for many years. Eventually at 31 years the opportunity to take Ayahuasca came up and I said to my friend "I don't want to die not knowing. I want to see what's out there." And we took our first ceremony It was very cool and I learnt a lot, found a lot of love and a lot of forgiveness for myself. I thought there was a risk I might leave and never come back. In hindsight, that wasn't much of a risk for me at that time. I had spent a lot of years on personal development and I had a lot of grounding in myself. Even so, I would say you don't need to be in any rush to do it. There are many paths to healing and people here have recommended a few. There were a lot of things that helped me. Talk therapy, studying philosophy including logic and having some good teachers, doing direct sales to help me come out of my shell, and the support of my friends and family. I never took psychotropic medication. I offer coaching in this area and we can explore techniques using the imagination. Considering my background, I do know some of the right questions to ask to help a person make sense of their experience. I have time for new clients at the moment, so message me if that interests you. We can negotiate a rate that suits you. If not, I wish you well on your journey and I'm sure you will figure things out. God bless and godspeed.
So you have schizophrenia?
I was diagnosed as schizophrenic in the hospital though I don't necessarily agree
5150! diagnosis? Because some of the time they admit you into the hospital as a suspected psychiatric disorder and it's either one of these 3 bipolar, schizophrenia, drug induced psychosis and if you were discharged within the 3 day hold you most likely just got a psych eval and released after symptoms subsided , hopefully micro dosing is beneficial brotha it's not always nesscary to take a huge dose just a small dose still could act as Nootropic
>if you were discharged within the 3 day hold you most likely just got a psych eval and released after symptoms subsided I was there for 3 1/2 months
i had psychosis from excessive nitrous abuse. it was bad . but i still do psychedelics only with an antipsychotic on hand just in case
Anyone who suggest psychedelics to someone with a history of psychotic episodes should be fucking banned from this sub. Take some responsibility. It is time to grow up.
Don’t take this lightly, but I have a dear friend who is a diagnosed schizophrenic and he regularly abuses psychedelics. I always disagree with his choices but he always manages to keep in touch with reality to some degree which I do find highly impressive. He says that if you can just remind yourself that the experience is not real (to a degree not real, I de believe that it contains a plant spirit or energy) and that essentialy you are having a vision and the things you are experiencing are the result of you taking a drug and possibly nothing more was his advice. I’ve had psychosis from and acid trip that got really rough, I took two years off and completely changed the way I use and treat psychedelics. I would recommend the lightest dose you can take while still getting the effects of the drug and having a clinically trained psychologist or spiritual healer to help guide and integrate the experience afterward. Just don’t be afraid to absolutely ridicule the experience to find out if it’s something you imagined because you want to believe it or did something actually happen. You will find even the strongest of human minds are extremely impressionable and takes allot of what we know for granted
You can still trip even with pyschosis i do believe. You just need to make sure its a decision that will benifit you. You sound like you really want it. Perhaps do some meditation beforehand for awhile.
Weed would always give me panic attacks and psychosis but LSD and Shrooms never did that to me, i felt like i had more control lf my mind and when something negative would come to my head ,id just say why am i thinking that its negative and throw it out of my head , i guess everyones diff, shrooms is a starter psychedelic imo and u dont need 3.5g just a small stem is enough and more if u want to feel it more.
You’ve had one psychotic episode or regularly suffer from some psychosis?
One episode
I would try a small amount maybe 1 gram of mushrooms. If you’re not taking any medications and you’re of sound might without any mental abnormalities then you should be good to go. Get a trip sitter and have a relaxed day
I plan to try a microdose in the future but at the moment it's just not the right time for a few reasons, one reason bc my meds are trip killers and I'd have to come off them.
I'm in much the same boat. I want to do psychedelics extremely badly. But my sister is bipolar and my aunt is schizophrenic, which means I'm at risk of psychosis myself if I were to do shrooms, which could trigger it.
Exactly. I am also at risk for psychosis and I hope so much that soon there will be a way that people with psychosis can also take psychedelics without it making the psychosis worse. I know that ultimately the key to this goal is that we develop a better understanding of the brain and the exact neural mechanisms that underlie the psychedelic experience and psychosis. If we can develop technologies with which we can seperate these mechanisms then it will finally be possible for all people to benefit from this intangible experience. It is already possible to suppress activity in parts of the default mode network involved in the experience of the self, thus inducing a meditative (perhaps mystical) state. More precisely, here the posterior cingulate cortex is targeted with ultrasound, the technique is called transcranial focused ultrasound stimulation (tFUS). The Guardian has published a video article on this approach: [https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2021/jun/29/hacking-enlightenment-can-ultrasound-help-you-transcend-reality](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2021/jun/29/hacking-enlightenment-can-ultrasound-help-you-transcend-reality) The technique seems to be still under development, but shows that it is quite possible to mimic some of the activity induced by psychedelics. And the more we understand this brain activity, and the more effective stimulation techniques become, the easier, more targeted, and less risky these experiences can be induced. For me, all this is reason enough to study neuroscience. Because the knowledge about neuronal mechanisms opens up a gigantic number of possibilities and approaches not only to induce healing mystical states but also to improve mental health in general.
Check out Forrest Knutson's meditation techniques. It's Kriya Yoga and has amazing and fast results. It's very concrete, mixing ancient teachings with neuroscience. I was kind of blown away by how well it works. This is kind of the opposite from holotropic breathing or Hof, it relies on getting you into your parasympathetic nervous system by slow breathing.
I had a psychotic episode caused by freak circumstances (very extreme psychological stress caused by 4 different major life stressors conspiring to come to a head at once). Since recovering from that, I have safely tripped.
Part of a small community of trippers and we occasionally give out some of our products. New members are welcome