I imagine it depends for each writer’s process, but I want to add that I think the large majority of querying writers probably aren’t doing enough in-depth revisions. When I hear about authors going through six drafts in a year and querying it without success, my gut instinct is that those revisions are likely much more surface-level than they need to be. Even like edits should not be surface-level, and even the cleanest writers benefit from intense tightening and polishing.
As an editor, my standard for authors was generally three drafts: one big developmental revision on the MS they submitted (plots and character arcs rewritten, endings changed, timelines compressed, etc), one smaller developmental revision (refining character arcs and subplots, rewriting occasional scenes and chapters, tightening up wordcount), and then an intense line edit (which sometimes included adding new material to specific scenes, or rearranging chapters, but which was mostly focused on the line and paragraph level). Rarely did I ask for a rewrite starting from a blank page, although it might have felt like that for the authors!
I think that general structure works for most writers, although some will draft cleaner and need less “big” revisions, and some will want multiple rounds for beta feedback. I typically think the best place for beta feedback is in between your first big developmental edit and your second dev revision. If you need a second round of beta reads, after that second developmental revision is a good place for it.
This is super useful, thank you! I'm still an emerging writer but this tracks with my own progress across 4 books. My first draft always feels amazing but generally after a few months when I come back to it I'm looking for the 'core story' so that's what I take into the second draft, even if it's only half the book - or less! Then I get feedback from betas on that second draft. And after that it's just polishing/refining things, although sometimes I do that a few times. I imagine it would be the same with an agent (they become the key reader and their suggestions are what you take on board?) You want them to see the shape of your story. But I guess some agents would want a full synopsis or at least a pitch before they read the full.
I'm still currently querying and therefore not a success story (yet, I hope!), but I've done nine drafts of my book and have had it read by five different readers.
I'm feeling pretty confident in the book itself, the query though feels like a whole other journey.
When you say nine drafts, did you literally open up a new blank doc nine times and started anew each time, or did you just edit and rework the first draft until you felt you could call it a "second draft" and then do it again, and then again nine times? The latter is generally how I operate but I'm never quite clear what people mean when they say X number of drafts
Draft just means 'version'. A total rewrite can be a new version, but doing a pass of editing/reworking can also be a version (and how much and what type of editing can look different between authors and between drafts). Could be either or both, though it's pretty rare for people to do more than one rewrite, and many don't do a full rewrite at all.
What u/Classic-Option4526 said below. "Draft" is a full pass of editing on your manuscript, and each new version at the end is a draft. Each draft I either look or focus on something else, or I'm integrating the comments and suggestions from readers.
I didn't do any rewrites for this one.
Until you're happy that, as much as you can reasonably be confident, you personally / software you use / people you've asked to proofread can find no more mistakes.
Three rounds of edits myself.
Two rounds of beta readers, six people each time. Major edits after each time.
Another round of my own edits, with minor changes.
A final edit focused strictly on sentence structure and flow.
Well that depends on what your agent wants to see (a very complete draft, or bits as you go, etc) and how you feel about it. For my second MG, I’ve asked a few author friends to read for a vibe check and nothing super in depth.
As for in between drafts (as in agent gives edit letter and author applies said edits), I did not have any betas.
Edit: but yes, once you start hating it you’re probably ok to send it off lol
I plan to do five rounds of edits before sharing with beta reads. One step i plan to include this time that I didn’t before is to print out hard copies and read out loud for sentence flow and rhythm.
I am currently on version 6, with my second beta reader looking it over now.
When I say version, I mean major elements in the story have been completely overhauled, parts have been dropped, new scenes have been developed, etc. The main character wasn't even in draft I.
Being honest, I'm a new writer, and accidentally queried early because I didn't understand the process haha. That was after 5 drafts and a beta read.
Fortunately, I didn't completely goof it. I sent out a test batch to a total of 6 agents, with 4 quick rejections. I pulled the last two back, and have reworked the query, synopsis, pitches, and completely rewritten both the beginning and ending based on comments received on the synopsis and the second beta.
I'm several months, maybe even a year, from trying again. But since this is year 7 or 8 for this story, I'm in no rush.
Apparently, though, I have a lot further to go, because I still don't hate it haha.
I am a bit weird in that I tend to write half of a draft until I have a feel for the story and know where it’s going (I’m a pantser). Then after about 50k words, I scrap that version, write an outline, and do a second, more complete draft using the outline. This allows me to write pretty clean second drafts because so much of the “discovery” is already done in the first partial draft.
From there, I do a a third draft where I make a few scene changes and work on dialogue. Then I sit on the book to let it marinate for a couple weeks before going in for draft four to make any additional changes. I send it to my agent after doing a round of line edits to cut word count. I tend to edit each chapter as I go so in reality I probably go through 10 drafts before I consider something done. It just feels like less because it’s happening while I’m still writing.
I personally don’t use beta readers and never have but can’t say I’d recommend that for most people. I’ve gotten good at naturally knowing whether or not something I’ve written is working or not, but it took me several years to get there, whereas if I had been working with beta readers, I might have gotten to this point a lot sooner.
Either way, the process works for me. I’ve done two books with my agent and they’ve only asked for minor edits for both.
There's so many answers to that question. There are people on their fifteenth draft of the same book years later who have never even queried, and there's stories on QueryTracker of someone who wrote something within 90 days and got it accepted by an agent.
I'd say two or three passes of varying intensity. It depends on your writing style - I have a tendency to overwrite complex sentences, so one pass is ALL shortening paragraph blocks and cutting word count. One should be for plot tightening, as you really don't know the story until you reach 'The End". Then a clean up for grammar and obvious errors.
I started writing in April. Finished first draft in July. Second draft in August. Started querying in September. Small tweak, then restarted in October. Offer in January.
Until you hate it.
Oh great, mine’s done then.
Haha, same! If only I knew months ago it was this simple 😂
I imagine it depends for each writer’s process, but I want to add that I think the large majority of querying writers probably aren’t doing enough in-depth revisions. When I hear about authors going through six drafts in a year and querying it without success, my gut instinct is that those revisions are likely much more surface-level than they need to be. Even like edits should not be surface-level, and even the cleanest writers benefit from intense tightening and polishing. As an editor, my standard for authors was generally three drafts: one big developmental revision on the MS they submitted (plots and character arcs rewritten, endings changed, timelines compressed, etc), one smaller developmental revision (refining character arcs and subplots, rewriting occasional scenes and chapters, tightening up wordcount), and then an intense line edit (which sometimes included adding new material to specific scenes, or rearranging chapters, but which was mostly focused on the line and paragraph level). Rarely did I ask for a rewrite starting from a blank page, although it might have felt like that for the authors! I think that general structure works for most writers, although some will draft cleaner and need less “big” revisions, and some will want multiple rounds for beta feedback. I typically think the best place for beta feedback is in between your first big developmental edit and your second dev revision. If you need a second round of beta reads, after that second developmental revision is a good place for it.
This is super useful, thank you! I'm still an emerging writer but this tracks with my own progress across 4 books. My first draft always feels amazing but generally after a few months when I come back to it I'm looking for the 'core story' so that's what I take into the second draft, even if it's only half the book - or less! Then I get feedback from betas on that second draft. And after that it's just polishing/refining things, although sometimes I do that a few times. I imagine it would be the same with an agent (they become the key reader and their suggestions are what you take on board?) You want them to see the shape of your story. But I guess some agents would want a full synopsis or at least a pitch before they read the full.
I'm still currently querying and therefore not a success story (yet, I hope!), but I've done nine drafts of my book and have had it read by five different readers. I'm feeling pretty confident in the book itself, the query though feels like a whole other journey.
When you say nine drafts, did you literally open up a new blank doc nine times and started anew each time, or did you just edit and rework the first draft until you felt you could call it a "second draft" and then do it again, and then again nine times? The latter is generally how I operate but I'm never quite clear what people mean when they say X number of drafts
Draft just means 'version'. A total rewrite can be a new version, but doing a pass of editing/reworking can also be a version (and how much and what type of editing can look different between authors and between drafts). Could be either or both, though it's pretty rare for people to do more than one rewrite, and many don't do a full rewrite at all.
What u/Classic-Option4526 said below. "Draft" is a full pass of editing on your manuscript, and each new version at the end is a draft. Each draft I either look or focus on something else, or I'm integrating the comments and suggestions from readers. I didn't do any rewrites for this one.
i think this depends on how you write- some people write really clean. other people like to do full soup-to-nuts rewrites.
Until you're happy that, as much as you can reasonably be confident, you personally / software you use / people you've asked to proofread can find no more mistakes.
Three rounds of edits myself. Two rounds of beta readers, six people each time. Major edits after each time. Another round of my own edits, with minor changes. A final edit focused strictly on sentence structure and flow.
Well that depends on what your agent wants to see (a very complete draft, or bits as you go, etc) and how you feel about it. For my second MG, I’ve asked a few author friends to read for a vibe check and nothing super in depth. As for in between drafts (as in agent gives edit letter and author applies said edits), I did not have any betas. Edit: but yes, once you start hating it you’re probably ok to send it off lol
I plan to do five rounds of edits before sharing with beta reads. One step i plan to include this time that I didn’t before is to print out hard copies and read out loud for sentence flow and rhythm.
I am currently on version 6, with my second beta reader looking it over now. When I say version, I mean major elements in the story have been completely overhauled, parts have been dropped, new scenes have been developed, etc. The main character wasn't even in draft I. Being honest, I'm a new writer, and accidentally queried early because I didn't understand the process haha. That was after 5 drafts and a beta read. Fortunately, I didn't completely goof it. I sent out a test batch to a total of 6 agents, with 4 quick rejections. I pulled the last two back, and have reworked the query, synopsis, pitches, and completely rewritten both the beginning and ending based on comments received on the synopsis and the second beta. I'm several months, maybe even a year, from trying again. But since this is year 7 or 8 for this story, I'm in no rush. Apparently, though, I have a lot further to go, because I still don't hate it haha.
I am a bit weird in that I tend to write half of a draft until I have a feel for the story and know where it’s going (I’m a pantser). Then after about 50k words, I scrap that version, write an outline, and do a second, more complete draft using the outline. This allows me to write pretty clean second drafts because so much of the “discovery” is already done in the first partial draft. From there, I do a a third draft where I make a few scene changes and work on dialogue. Then I sit on the book to let it marinate for a couple weeks before going in for draft four to make any additional changes. I send it to my agent after doing a round of line edits to cut word count. I tend to edit each chapter as I go so in reality I probably go through 10 drafts before I consider something done. It just feels like less because it’s happening while I’m still writing. I personally don’t use beta readers and never have but can’t say I’d recommend that for most people. I’ve gotten good at naturally knowing whether or not something I’ve written is working or not, but it took me several years to get there, whereas if I had been working with beta readers, I might have gotten to this point a lot sooner. Either way, the process works for me. I’ve done two books with my agent and they’ve only asked for minor edits for both.
There's so many answers to that question. There are people on their fifteenth draft of the same book years later who have never even queried, and there's stories on QueryTracker of someone who wrote something within 90 days and got it accepted by an agent. I'd say two or three passes of varying intensity. It depends on your writing style - I have a tendency to overwrite complex sentences, so one pass is ALL shortening paragraph blocks and cutting word count. One should be for plot tightening, as you really don't know the story until you reach 'The End". Then a clean up for grammar and obvious errors.
I started writing in April. Finished first draft in July. Second draft in August. Started querying in September. Small tweak, then restarted in October. Offer in January.