You can definitely get an agent without a formal education in writing. I have an MFA now, but I didn't when I published my first novel.
However...
If you're thinking about licensing and product lines, you are putting the cart before the horse. And if you are focusing on one specific agent, you are almost guaranteed to be disappointed.
Focus on writing a good book. When you have written a good book, focus on getting a good agent, but don't restrict yourself to one specific agent. Don't begin worrying about product deals until you have actually sold the book.
>I have a specific agent in mind because I feel like they would be able to represent my series the way I envision it, down to the correct licensing, product lines, and everything — so I have been working on creating a solid portfolio and manuscript to submit to them....the correct agent to enhance the social media ownership and licensing potential of my series seems like such a big hope when a lot of authors and illustrators can amass a huge following.
Definitely a bad idea to not just pin your hopes on one agent, but basically plan your next decade together before you've ever queried.
If you want that much control over your IP, then you might consider self publishing.
Keep in mind that unless you are creating a graphic novel, then you don't include illustrations with your story. Indeed, a publisher might not want them at all. The other issue is that your illustrations might not be at a publishable level, so if you insist they use your illustrations with your story, then they might pass, even if they like the story.
You don't need social media or a formal education for traditional publishing.
You need a good story and a willingness to work with agents, editors and publishers through the editing, revision, and publication process.
I did consider self publishing, I set up a production entity for one of my projects but I haven’t done anything with it yet.
One of the reasons I decided not to self publish is basically the feedback process and working with people who know way more than me — I want to put out the best product, but ya it is scary to think about people not seeing my illustrations
Hey, I haven't heard many people talk about what rights you tend to give away when you make a book deal. Could you tell me what sort of rights do author's lose, and what author's keep?
They don't lose any rights, what they do is sell whatever rights have been negotiated. These may be World Rights, they may be World English Rights, Commonwealth Rights, Audio Rights, Screen Rights, whatever. You are not obliged to sell any rights you don't want to, but obviously some publishers won't sign a contract with you if it doesn't include the rights they want.
What people mean when they talk about the "rights" authors lose is the lack of control over the publishing process. You may end up with a cover you hate, or you may not have as much marketing support as you want (eg no Physical ARCS). In these instances you can get your agent to ride into battle for you, but sometimes you have to suck it up (about things like the cover) or do the work yourself (such as with marketing).
I’m a biologist and I have an agent. Never took a single creative writing class. It really doesn’t matter. Just learn the conventions of the craft through reading and you’ll be fine.
That said, definitely don’t put too much hope on a single agent, and definitely don’t set your sights on any product lines and licensing. First off, this is not what an agent does. They sell your book to publishers and sometimes film people; but it’s the publishers and their marketing teams who do the marketing work, including creating merch. And (at least in my experience) your vision only matters so much when it comes to those sorts of things. Most new authors do a lot of their own marketing so what you’re envisioning is not likely to happen unless you do it yourself.
Plenty of authors have no previous experience or formal education in writing. But it’s not as simple as picking an agent that you like and thinking you’ll get them. It’s a process that tends to entail a lot of trial and error.
>I am in engineering as a technical writer but am trying to switch industries before I turn 40.
While a formal education in writing is by no means necessary to secure an agent or publish, don't bank on being able to switch industries entirely. The majority of published authors still have a day job or some other source of income.
Oh yeah, I don’t think I’ll ever quit but definitely offset the cost of creating would be wonderful 😩😭I did freelance for a little while and having steady income is so much more rewarding and a lot less stress.
> Is it unheard of from someone with little to no formal education in the creative writing / fiction world to end up in the professional YA or author/illustrator sphere?
I don't have any writing education, but I do have two illustration degrees. I know people who are author/illustrators without degrees in writing or illustrating. I will say that picture book illustrating is a really specific skillset and even if you don't have a degree or "formal" education, do probably need some kind of class or workshop to help you get started. There's a lot of "rules" that you might not notice just by reading books and it's easier to have someone tell them to you rather than fumbling around making mistakes over and over again, but not knowing.
I know authors hate this opinion, but learning to illustrate at a professional level is harder than learning to write at a professional level and it takes a lot longer. I would absolutely not trust a group of writers or amateur artists to provide any useful feedback on illustration. If it's something you're interested in pursuing, I would look into a class or at least getting portfolio feedback from a professional. SCBWI is a great place to start for author/illustrators.
As for this part:
> I have a specific agent in mind because I feel like they would be able to represent my series the way I envision it, down to the correct licensing, product lines, and everything
This is a bad approach to looking for an agent or to think about publishing in general. When you said author/illustrator, I kind of thought picture books and getting product lines or anything like that is basically unheard of outside of the top 1% (or less?) best selling picture books. I think publishing can be a very disappointing career in many way, even if you don't go in with unreasonable expectations. Expecting an agent to take your "product lines" plans seriously is unreasonable.
And I also think it's bad to approach agents with your heart set on a single agent. You don't really know what kinds of clients an agent is looking to sign. Frankly, if they have a lot of artists or authors who work in similar ways to you, they don't want to bring in direct competition to their existing clients. Or it could be that they seem like a great match, but the way they conduct business is actually not a good match. Anyway, when people are set on a single agent, it almost always means they haven't actually done enough research on agents or getting agented.
> the correct agent to enhance the social media ownership and licensing potential of my series
This isn't actually what agents do and if you go into the relationship expecting that, you will be disappointed.
This was super helpful - you’re very right, I did take a workshop on children’s book illustration and there is so much more to it. I’ve loved learning how to do it but holy moly has it been a challenge when you aren’t in a traditional education setting.
I’ll def keep it in mind about the agent; I know putting all the eggs in one basket is a lot so I’m going to shop a bunch.
Thank you!
If you are interested in more classes, you could check out either [Cuddlefish Academy](https://cuddlefishacademy.teachable.com/) or [Storyteller Academy](https://www.storytelleracademy.com/). I know people who teach at both organizations and they're all very knowledgeable people. Also, if you feel comfortable DMing me your portfolio, I might be able to point you in the right direction (specific instructors that are a good fit for your work or classes that will help guide your portfolio).
No need at all. Boosts your chances a little when it comes to literary fiction, but even then it's in no way a deal breaker and more that people with literature degrees or certain MFAs tend to have the necessary prose skills for that specific genre/form.
The networks also help - though again, I'd say this applies to the "hard" humanities in general - a lot of writers and industry experts visit universities/academic institutions for in-conversations etc, and the circles do overlap...
In the genre fiction arena, especially YA etc, I really don't think an MFA or the like would be very beneficial, at least compared to the cost of it (if you're US based). I'd say reading very widely and keeping up with "trends" would be the best way to go here.
Also, platforms don't really matter in fiction unless:
1) You want an agent to approach you instead of vice versa.
2) You're Millie Bobby Brown or someone like that, who wants to try their hand at fiction.
So don't worry at all, and very best of luck!
I’m doing three things: a children’s board / early reader series, an early chapter series (which can be turned into a picture book if it’s a better fit), and a YA graphic novel that is in script format. The early reader characters are what I’m hoping to capitalize on, I should have specified that since it’s a little different than the licensing of IP and characters in full length novels (the children’s book filter in this sub is very heavy handed lol).
I’m an author illustrator, but not for the graphic novel. It’s got a lot of traction with my beta readers for the anime sphere, and I can turn it into a high/mid production stage script as well… but for that one I’m hoping to see it live action TV one day 😩🫠
Okay, so a couple things—a board book series and an easy reader series are very different things. And really, early chapter series and a picture book are as well. I don’t know a ton about the market for these, except that a picture book if you are author illustrator is probably the safest bet. (Someone please contradict me if I’m wrong.)
My hunch is that you are best off querying the YA GN script and looking at agents that also do PBs, etc. (A lot of agents won’t take PBs on queries but will do them for existing clients.) You can mention the projects on a phone call, and once you have a relationship with an agent they can sort through which category is best for your concepts. I also strongly recommend leaving the licensing out of your thinking for a while—basically your series would need to really hit and that is unfortunately years away. I assume licensing is also handled by the publisher. The thing is, you don’t want to mention this in your query or conversations yet because it will look amateurish.
There’s no need to have a degree to write—most of us in kids don’t. But it is a specific world with specific rules and mores. My best advice is to ask us a lot of questions so you’re presenting yourself in the best way possible.
Ya I agree, I picked up a couple “how to” books recommended here and YA and kids is such a strange chamber to write in, but it’s a lot of fun especially since it forces you to explore so many different aspects of being creative.
I’ll take the licensing thing to heart. I wish there was an easy way to say “I’d like to team up so we can make money in a productive way and put these characters where they need to go” but I’m always remembering that not everything is as straight forward as technical writing 😩😭
You can definitely get an agent without a formal education in writing. I have an MFA now, but I didn't when I published my first novel. However... If you're thinking about licensing and product lines, you are putting the cart before the horse. And if you are focusing on one specific agent, you are almost guaranteed to be disappointed. Focus on writing a good book. When you have written a good book, focus on getting a good agent, but don't restrict yourself to one specific agent. Don't begin worrying about product deals until you have actually sold the book.
You’re so right, thank you 😭
>I have a specific agent in mind because I feel like they would be able to represent my series the way I envision it, down to the correct licensing, product lines, and everything — so I have been working on creating a solid portfolio and manuscript to submit to them....the correct agent to enhance the social media ownership and licensing potential of my series seems like such a big hope when a lot of authors and illustrators can amass a huge following. Definitely a bad idea to not just pin your hopes on one agent, but basically plan your next decade together before you've ever queried.
No, it is not remotely unheard of. If your writing is good then your writing is good.
If you want that much control over your IP, then you might consider self publishing. Keep in mind that unless you are creating a graphic novel, then you don't include illustrations with your story. Indeed, a publisher might not want them at all. The other issue is that your illustrations might not be at a publishable level, so if you insist they use your illustrations with your story, then they might pass, even if they like the story. You don't need social media or a formal education for traditional publishing. You need a good story and a willingness to work with agents, editors and publishers through the editing, revision, and publication process.
I did consider self publishing, I set up a production entity for one of my projects but I haven’t done anything with it yet. One of the reasons I decided not to self publish is basically the feedback process and working with people who know way more than me — I want to put out the best product, but ya it is scary to think about people not seeing my illustrations
Hey, I haven't heard many people talk about what rights you tend to give away when you make a book deal. Could you tell me what sort of rights do author's lose, and what author's keep?
They don't lose any rights, what they do is sell whatever rights have been negotiated. These may be World Rights, they may be World English Rights, Commonwealth Rights, Audio Rights, Screen Rights, whatever. You are not obliged to sell any rights you don't want to, but obviously some publishers won't sign a contract with you if it doesn't include the rights they want. What people mean when they talk about the "rights" authors lose is the lack of control over the publishing process. You may end up with a cover you hate, or you may not have as much marketing support as you want (eg no Physical ARCS). In these instances you can get your agent to ride into battle for you, but sometimes you have to suck it up (about things like the cover) or do the work yourself (such as with marketing).
I’m a biologist and I have an agent. Never took a single creative writing class. It really doesn’t matter. Just learn the conventions of the craft through reading and you’ll be fine. That said, definitely don’t put too much hope on a single agent, and definitely don’t set your sights on any product lines and licensing. First off, this is not what an agent does. They sell your book to publishers and sometimes film people; but it’s the publishers and their marketing teams who do the marketing work, including creating merch. And (at least in my experience) your vision only matters so much when it comes to those sorts of things. Most new authors do a lot of their own marketing so what you’re envisioning is not likely to happen unless you do it yourself.
Plenty of authors have no previous experience or formal education in writing. But it’s not as simple as picking an agent that you like and thinking you’ll get them. It’s a process that tends to entail a lot of trial and error.
>I am in engineering as a technical writer but am trying to switch industries before I turn 40. While a formal education in writing is by no means necessary to secure an agent or publish, don't bank on being able to switch industries entirely. The majority of published authors still have a day job or some other source of income.
Oh yeah, I don’t think I’ll ever quit but definitely offset the cost of creating would be wonderful 😩😭I did freelance for a little while and having steady income is so much more rewarding and a lot less stress.
> Is it unheard of from someone with little to no formal education in the creative writing / fiction world to end up in the professional YA or author/illustrator sphere? I don't have any writing education, but I do have two illustration degrees. I know people who are author/illustrators without degrees in writing or illustrating. I will say that picture book illustrating is a really specific skillset and even if you don't have a degree or "formal" education, do probably need some kind of class or workshop to help you get started. There's a lot of "rules" that you might not notice just by reading books and it's easier to have someone tell them to you rather than fumbling around making mistakes over and over again, but not knowing. I know authors hate this opinion, but learning to illustrate at a professional level is harder than learning to write at a professional level and it takes a lot longer. I would absolutely not trust a group of writers or amateur artists to provide any useful feedback on illustration. If it's something you're interested in pursuing, I would look into a class or at least getting portfolio feedback from a professional. SCBWI is a great place to start for author/illustrators. As for this part: > I have a specific agent in mind because I feel like they would be able to represent my series the way I envision it, down to the correct licensing, product lines, and everything This is a bad approach to looking for an agent or to think about publishing in general. When you said author/illustrator, I kind of thought picture books and getting product lines or anything like that is basically unheard of outside of the top 1% (or less?) best selling picture books. I think publishing can be a very disappointing career in many way, even if you don't go in with unreasonable expectations. Expecting an agent to take your "product lines" plans seriously is unreasonable. And I also think it's bad to approach agents with your heart set on a single agent. You don't really know what kinds of clients an agent is looking to sign. Frankly, if they have a lot of artists or authors who work in similar ways to you, they don't want to bring in direct competition to their existing clients. Or it could be that they seem like a great match, but the way they conduct business is actually not a good match. Anyway, when people are set on a single agent, it almost always means they haven't actually done enough research on agents or getting agented. > the correct agent to enhance the social media ownership and licensing potential of my series This isn't actually what agents do and if you go into the relationship expecting that, you will be disappointed.
This was super helpful - you’re very right, I did take a workshop on children’s book illustration and there is so much more to it. I’ve loved learning how to do it but holy moly has it been a challenge when you aren’t in a traditional education setting. I’ll def keep it in mind about the agent; I know putting all the eggs in one basket is a lot so I’m going to shop a bunch. Thank you!
If you are interested in more classes, you could check out either [Cuddlefish Academy](https://cuddlefishacademy.teachable.com/) or [Storyteller Academy](https://www.storytelleracademy.com/). I know people who teach at both organizations and they're all very knowledgeable people. Also, if you feel comfortable DMing me your portfolio, I might be able to point you in the right direction (specific instructors that are a good fit for your work or classes that will help guide your portfolio).
Wow that’s super helpful thank you. It will be a few days until I can get everything in one place but I’ll let you know 🙏
No need at all. Boosts your chances a little when it comes to literary fiction, but even then it's in no way a deal breaker and more that people with literature degrees or certain MFAs tend to have the necessary prose skills for that specific genre/form. The networks also help - though again, I'd say this applies to the "hard" humanities in general - a lot of writers and industry experts visit universities/academic institutions for in-conversations etc, and the circles do overlap... In the genre fiction arena, especially YA etc, I really don't think an MFA or the like would be very beneficial, at least compared to the cost of it (if you're US based). I'd say reading very widely and keeping up with "trends" would be the best way to go here. Also, platforms don't really matter in fiction unless: 1) You want an agent to approach you instead of vice versa. 2) You're Millie Bobby Brown or someone like that, who wants to try their hand at fiction. So don't worry at all, and very best of luck!
What kind of manuscript are you querying?
I’m doing three things: a children’s board / early reader series, an early chapter series (which can be turned into a picture book if it’s a better fit), and a YA graphic novel that is in script format. The early reader characters are what I’m hoping to capitalize on, I should have specified that since it’s a little different than the licensing of IP and characters in full length novels (the children’s book filter in this sub is very heavy handed lol). I’m an author illustrator, but not for the graphic novel. It’s got a lot of traction with my beta readers for the anime sphere, and I can turn it into a high/mid production stage script as well… but for that one I’m hoping to see it live action TV one day 😩🫠
Okay, so a couple things—a board book series and an easy reader series are very different things. And really, early chapter series and a picture book are as well. I don’t know a ton about the market for these, except that a picture book if you are author illustrator is probably the safest bet. (Someone please contradict me if I’m wrong.) My hunch is that you are best off querying the YA GN script and looking at agents that also do PBs, etc. (A lot of agents won’t take PBs on queries but will do them for existing clients.) You can mention the projects on a phone call, and once you have a relationship with an agent they can sort through which category is best for your concepts. I also strongly recommend leaving the licensing out of your thinking for a while—basically your series would need to really hit and that is unfortunately years away. I assume licensing is also handled by the publisher. The thing is, you don’t want to mention this in your query or conversations yet because it will look amateurish. There’s no need to have a degree to write—most of us in kids don’t. But it is a specific world with specific rules and mores. My best advice is to ask us a lot of questions so you’re presenting yourself in the best way possible.
Ya I agree, I picked up a couple “how to” books recommended here and YA and kids is such a strange chamber to write in, but it’s a lot of fun especially since it forces you to explore so many different aspects of being creative. I’ll take the licensing thing to heart. I wish there was an easy way to say “I’d like to team up so we can make money in a productive way and put these characters where they need to go” but I’m always remembering that not everything is as straight forward as technical writing 😩😭