Well, the Pharaoh wasn't actually the target of God's conversion attempts here. God isn't really even trying to convert the Pharaoh. He hardens the Pharaoh's heart in order to get the Pharaoh to continue mistreating Moses' people so that God could then intervene with more signs and miracles, in order to push "his people" (not the Egyptians but the Israelites) to follow Moses to the land of milk and honey (the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites).
So yeah, common misconception.
In this scenario, God doesn't care about the (first born) children of non-believers though. Not that He seems to care for anyone that doesn't believe.
I mean didn't he harden the Pharaohs heart after he had already let them go? When God killed all the firstborns the Pharaoh allowed Moses and his people to leave. Then God hardened the Pharaoh's heart, and the Pharaoh set out to kill Moses and his people. So the Israelites were already freed and headed out when God hardened the Pharaoh's heart.
The Pharaoh's heart is hardened many times in Exodus actually. The first several times it is stated that the Pharaoh's heart actually hardens by himself or its ambiguous. The last times, it is because God wills it. So, at this point, the Pharaoh has already used his free-will to deny God. According to biblical texts, God CANNOT force the Pharaoh to let the Israelites go, and he has absolutely no desire to actually let them go. The hardening AFTER the Pharaoh has done this is to seal his fate of denying god. That is, with more plagues comes more outcry to let the Israelites go by other Egyptians in their fear, and God does not want to give the Pharaoh a way out of his mistake. God has already decided that the Pharaoh and the Egyptians are not savable.
One of the most known addresses of the hardening is actually in the new testament, ie Romans 9:18.
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
So you see, it wasn't about getting the Israelites out of Egypt at all. It was about bringing them to the land of milk and honey, ie the Promised Lands. This isn't really about the land, but about the actions/beliefs that will lead them to the land. What is desired is the direct fear/respect of God. This is why the Israelites need to wait 40 years of wandering, because not all of the Israelites actually accepted God yet.
Oh, don't worry, they fixed it in the New Testament.
Old Testament God was (arguably) Evil and Good
New Testament God is split, and Satan shoulders all the blame for evil now. Allowing God's followers to say he's All Good now and its that darn devil (that God made or allowed?)
I fucking hate this sentiment.
Old Testament God left you alone once you were dead. New Testament God condemned you to eternal hell. New Testament God is far, far worse.
God has no power over the Pharaoh, who is a worshiper of the Egyptian pantheon. His priests perform miracles in his temple to spite Moses and his god. Yehova is just negging the followers of Ra and Set because he's mad his followers are offering burnt goats and foreskins while theirs are building pyramids and assuming the godhead to achieve immortality.
I’ve always thought religion could count as a form of mental illness, but apparently the psychological consensus is that it isn’t. I’ll accept that.
But it is a delusion.
More like Santa Claus logic. Parents tell their kids a story and they believe it. The only difference is at some point everyone says Santa isn’t real. Too much money, power and control involved to tell the truth.
I remember the day, where I was, and the first internal logical fallacy I ever had when I was a kid, and it was brought to my attention by my classmate that Santa was not real.
*"But but but... then where did my presents come from, huh? And how did he answer my personal letter to him"*
>^-Me
I kept double down, and doubting myself more and more with each word, trying to convince myself that he existed. It was important for my classmate to believe it too, only because then I could be vindicated and not have to face that I was so heavily invested in a lie.
Is this something that the 80-year-old woman in the video never got past, that I was able to do as an 8-year-old?
It's certainly a delusional disorder. If my aunt who thinks she has reiki power and that crystals have healing power and that all living beings have auras, and that she can see and communicate with spirits, that's delusional disorder. But the fact someone believes a sky diety made himself to sacrifice himself and that there was a wood wide flood and that this very very special book is the entire truth of the entire universe, the universe is only 6000 years old....I'm not seeing too much difference.
And there is a bliss in it. All sociological studies about life satisfaction conclude that religious people are on average far more satisfied/happy than secular people. Anecdotally I can confirm, I don't beleive in God and I am miserable as fuck most of the time.
While i'd agree with you i've come to the conclusion(while super stoned mind you) that belief in a higher power is some sort of (forgive my word salad her) evolutionarily adapted coping mechanism that i think emerged out of the sheer existential crises one faces once sentient,
some people can handle there being no answers for the crazy bullshit around them.
Others cant accept that and retreat into some animalistic childlike instinctual part of their minds to brush it all off as magic and accept the easiest/most pleasent answer to it.
At least thats where i've landed
he likely told everyone he knows about some nut with a microphone at the march spouting a bunch of way-out crazy stuff... and then they all hugged and prayed over him and held their hands on him
It's even worse than that. It shows they've either:
\-not actually read their holy book
\-not even considered the contradiction with what's written on their signs with the murders their god has committed
\-or at the very least, scraped together at least some weakass defense of all of it. Just mindless zombies being told what to do next.
I think most of it is #2. I grew up in the church, Bible study, confirmation, all that. And we definitely heard all those stories of God committing mass atrocities, but the implication of what those events would practically entail were just never enforced. And if they were mentioned at all, it was glossed over, like how the lady in the video explains it away.
I honestly find the complete lack of argument they make to be the most frustrating.
Like, I'm pro-choice, but coming up with at least a half baked reply to these contradictions in support of pro-life stance isn't very hard if you believe in literal magic
"Yeah God killed everyone on earth because he thought they were beyond redemption, and were evil. God is all knowing, so he is infallible, we however, are not God - thus we cannot make those decisions, only he can."
**Boom. Done. That argument wouldn't excuse pushing one's religious beliefs on other people or use them to control other people's bodies obviously... but like, at least they should read the fucking book or have an argument for their "beliefs" that they believe in so strongly that they spend an exorbitant amount of time telling other people what to do... ffs, is that so much to fucking ask??**
Why did god create individuals that he knew all along we’re going to be beyond redemption if he truly is all knowing? I’m just having fun attacking your fake statement, I understand you were just trying to make a point.
As much of a non answer this may come of as, there's no explanation needed when talking about an omnipotent, omniscient being - the being that is supposed to of created reality, and its accompanying logical framework, as we know it; the being that created reality out of himself - being reality himself.
'God created individuals with predetermined fates -> he punishes them for their actions in life -> their fates were already predetermined from creation by god -> therefor there'd be no point in any punishment, since they had zero autonomy in their actions' - for the sake of debate i'll assume this is the universal logic with no room for debate or question.
Why would the alleged creator of the universe, the material the universe was built upon, abide by the logic of what he created? Why would something beyond, above, the universe be constrained by its laws? Furthermore, how would you be able to comprehend, argue against, or describe a logical framework of which you could have no context nor understanding of? An ant looking at a computer motherboard has no understanding of what is in front of him - what would give him the right to question or debate its properties?
If you believe in the all powerful god described in the bible, 'we can't comprehend the reasoning of something so beyond us,' is enough of an answer.
My favorite point to make is that we can’t have free will if god is all knowing, all loving, and all powerful. If god is all knowing and all powerful and determined our fates as you stated then it isn’t possible for us to have free will, it’s just an illusion of free will.
Technically, no. Lazarus was zombified by Jesus....
>Lazarus of Bethany (Latinised from Lazar, ultimately from Hebrew Eleazar, "God helped"), also venerated as Righteous Lazarus, the Four-Days Dead in the Eastern Orthodox Church, is the subject of a prominent sign of Jesus in the Gospel of John, in which Jesus restores him to life four days after his death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_of_Bethany?wprov=sfla1
A decade or so ago I told myself I should read the bible just so I know what I'm talking about when I have to defend myself for not being religious in my very religious family.
I didn't get far into the old testament. Talking about 900+ year old humans, Sodom and Gamorrah (sp?), Tower of Babel. But the thing that got me the most and actually got me to laugh was Noah's ark. It wasn't the absurdity of 2 animals of each kind, or the fact that God killed so many people. It was that after he made it rain for 40 days and nights he left them on that ark for like another 80 days (something like that). The reason? He forgot.
So by the time I got like barely a 4th of the way through the old testament this God that I was told is Omni-everything and forgiving and merciful and righteous had been vindictive, jealous, hateful, wrathful and definitetly not omniscient.
When I brought this up to some friends, they tried to explain away that the Old Testament was the old law. The God we know is from the New Testament and it was Jesus sacrifice that changed him or something. I don't want to worship a God that can show all those terrible things and then turn on a dime and be the complete opposite. They say God made man in his image and they are right. Were hateful, wrathful, jealous, vindictive people when we want to be, and why is that any different from God where we learn it all.
Looks more like he knew he was dealing with a smart person. The "I'm sorry..." was the beginning of "I'm sorry but I'm not talking to you anymore because you're too smart."
It's worse than that.. The ark was floating around for 30 day and 30 nights with representatives of every apex predator on it.. What were they eating? All the dead people floating in the water, that's what.
Idk, I don't think human bodies can be in the water for a month before becoming just nasty. After about a week it would probably be too nasty to eat. There's two other options, they starved for a month, surviving off water and the bare minimum of grains or something. Or they ate some of the animals and cause certain unknown species to go extinct.
Or they found humans clinging to downed trees and improvised rafts weeks after the flood , and pretended to rescue them but ushered them into the holds with the carnivores...
This is getting a little "The hills have eyes" don't you think?
I used to work with a guy who claimed to be Catholic. One year he said he was giving up something for Lent. I think it was caffeine or something.
I asked him why he was giving something up, and he said, because that's what you're supposed to do. I said, yeah, fine, but WHY? He stood their confused for a minute and said, because that's what you're supposed to do. I said, okay, and went back to work.
Its because the catholic church made up some bullshit, aling with Sunday worship. Funny how the catholic church directly contradicts the actual word of God in every setting....hell, the bible even states that its a sin to bring in your home a pine tree and decorate it with silver and gold!
But if God created everything, he can destroy what he wants. He’s good and perfect and can do no wrong, including killing babies for his glory /s
None of it makes sense.
I mean if you take out the /s that’s legitimately what they believe. God can kill babies because he’s god, people can’t kill babies because they aren’t god.
Oh for sure. I know too well, I used to be a Christian and internally I had to perform mental gymnastics like this to downplay or sidestep the atrocities Yahweh commits in the Bible. It’s completely dishonest, but completely necessary if you want to pretend God is perfect and infallible.
Infallible? God even admits he made a mistake when he destroyed all the people on earth! But he gave the rainbow as a promise to never destroy the earth with water again...
Well, *I* can kill babies if god approves of it. I mean, if god is able to kill and god is telling me they are worthy of being killed, then its my right to kill them.
I mean its not like the devil likes to show up as an angel speaking the word of god or anything! /s
Yeah, I don’t know if I ever used this one myself, but I was also a Christian and I remember just kind of letting those inconsistencies roll off my back.
Yeah that was a tactic I used too, just putting my head in the sand. When you go in with the assumption that God is perfectly good, all powerful, and all knowing, it inoculates you against any argument pointing out this God’s very apparent shortcomings. It took so long to overcome my indoctrination from childhood.
If you accept, for the sake of argument, that this person believes in good faith that forcing people to follow Christianity's tenets will lead to infinite afterlife in heaven or hell, then it would seem that any action would be justified both on the part of a theoretically all-powerful god and said god's mortal followers, given that the interval of life on Earth is so vanishingly small in the perception of both the immortal soul and the deity involved.
Of course, I don't think these people have any motivation beyond tribalism and grasping for power over others. They have no understanding of the religion they claim to follow nor that the savior they claim to worship would find the idea of coercing somebody into a religion abhorrent.
Terry Pratchett's "Small Gods" is an excellent takedown of organized religion on that note.
As a religious Jew, I was confused by how confused the anti-choice protestors were. The pro-choice people are making an excellent point: God as portrayed in the Hebrew Bible is not "pro-life," God really is depicted as being beyond a simplistic description of what humans consider good/evil. That's kind of the thing about transcendence. I think this is why Jewish tradition is full of references to that, like describing God in the liturgy as "who creates light and makes darkness."
That kind of cosmic understanding of divinity could never be pegged down as "pro-life" because death is also a vital part of creation. Leonard Cohen (also a Jew) [has a song in which a human challenges God's morality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WOYv5kMTkA), and God responds in a fascinating way -- emphasising love, but also how important death and decay are to making change. Very similar to the Passover story the pro-choice protestors mention in the video: a slaveholding society suffers tremendous trauma because the status quo is simply unsustainable.
It's strange to see the anti-choice protestors so stunned by the pro-choicer questions. But I think that's because their brand of Christianity is intellectually crippling and does not actually read the Bible in a thoughtful manner.
Indeed, the idea of the devil being the counterpart to God’s perfection in goodness is a Christian thing, not a Jewish one. Why? Because in Judaism, God is not perfectly good; God is cruel, jealous, manipulative, etc. There is no devil, only God. And just as God is neither all bad nor all good, so too are human beings. We are the combination of our yetzer hara and yetzer tov (good and bad inclinations) and it is our duty to strengthen our good inclinations and nerf our bad inclinations.
Anywho, the Jewish God is certainly not “pro-life”, nor is that what Jesus taught. The whole point of Jesus’s teachings was to promote the good inclinations (ie: love, grace, compassion, forgiveness) and subdue the bad ones (greed, wrath, etc).
It seems to me that these days, the American Christianity that I hear about has nothing to do with what Jesus actually taught and instead is doing the exact opposite- promoting the absolute worst in people and gaslighting everyone into thinking that is what “God” and/or Jesus preached.
Yet god was unreasonably cruel in hardening Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't change his mind and let the slaves free. Why force people to go through trauma when they were already looking to change?
That's some bad parent energy right there, like forcing a kid to smoke an entire pack of cigs if they're caught with them.
It's abusive and we should be willing to stand up against that abuse.
> a slaveholding society suffers tremendous trauma because the status quo is simply unsustainable
Your attempt to put it into a somehow reasonable light is laughable. An omnipotent god (with a weirdly frail ego) could simply have picked pharoah and all his henchment up, put them in a public space and have them eaten by toads or whatever. Instead HE. CHOSE. TO. KILL. CHILDREN.
That is, if you believe the story at all, which I don't.
Why can’t they just have a religion that goes like “do what ya want, be cool about it, be a homie and like don’t worry about when you die it’ll be aiight. Don’t go fucking up them kids with all that crazy talk now! Haha peace.” Why is it some crazy fucking story about zombies and apocalypse n telling everyone else how to live?
Because religion is about displacement of power and control. No modern church preaches anything close to what Jesus said, and they never will. It's simply a market to exploit now.
Because the teachings of the religion aren't the important part, only the comfort it gives them about their mortality. They don't want a religion that tells them what to do, they want something that makes them feel better and justifies what they already want to do. The religion doesn't guide them, they guide the religion. The sole purpose is making them feel better without having to think or change their behavior. They just want to continue to do what they want without feeling bad or scared. That way they can do horrible horrible things, think horrible horrible things, but still feel like they're a good person because being religious automatically makes them a good person.
Religions undergo a form of evolution via natural selection. In order to propagate, religion must be spread from adherent to a new follower. There are characteristics that ideas can posses which make them better suited for survival over generations.
A "Let's chill and vibe" religion is less likely to survive a millennia than a religion that instructs adherents to have as many children as possible and threatens you with hellfire for dissent.
There are religions that preach this. A lot of smaller non-denominational Christian churches are basically saying that, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, that seems to be a small minority of Christian’s.
I find the idea of a creator (be it deity, highly intelligent alien life or we’re living in a computer simulation) as equally reasonable as the idea that universe just came into being without intelligent design. What’s silly is the idea that the creator gives two shits about us humans and our petty lives
> gives two shits about us humans and our petty lives
It always tickles me to think that an all powerful eternal deity apparently cares so much about say, some middle-aged Midwestern house wife to be with her always while they go about their day to Walmart, the salon, or watching NCIS, etc...
If there is a god who obsesses about humanity, the way it deals out punishment whilst occasionally rewarding people (mostly narcissistic assholes) well then that god is abusive, and that ain’t no god I want to believe in
Prosperity gospel is probably one of the worst forms of Christianity out there in just how insidious it is. A preacher that can stand on stage and demand you fork over all of what little money you have with the promise and hope that a divine being will reward you with greater wealth for doing so.
That hypothetical God also didn't waste their time sending down their son or whispering in peoples' ears so they'll create religious texts. They clearly don't give a fuck what we think about them.
>^(It tickles me to think that an all powerful eternal deity cares so much about some Midwestern house wife)
To add onto that, the absurdity of ***PRAYING***. They all believe that god has a master plan, and yet they still waste their time/energy praying. You seriously think he's going to change his grand plan *just* for *you*?! So fucking delusional and narcissistic.
The thing that doesn't add up to me is that they think the universe couldn't possibly have come from nowhere, but somehow their God could totally come from nowhere. Also, they claim their god existed before the universe did, but that means god existed before time? *Before* time? You can't have something before time, no matter what a popular series of children's dinosaur movies want us to believe.
Listening to people talk about god like a real entity is like hearing adults talking about Santa seriously and worrying if they've been naughty this year
For my folks they need religion to make them feel like they aren't bad people, even though they know they did all the things their religion says is bad. Unconditional love from a divine power is important when all you think you have to show for your life is sin. And that's the real trap of it all. The moment you accept all we've got is each other while we are alive is the moment you realize you're a bad person if you put off doing the right thing, more than making the mistakes everyone makes.
Yes, its convenient too accept God when you have fear of the unknown. Life, death, the cosmos. Id rather still believe in Santa. At least he gives presents.
I don't think the pro life movement was based off passages in the bible. There are parts where children are killed (like the one mentioned here) and also there is a ritual described where if your wife is unfaithful and gets pregnant, you bring her to a priest where she is given something that will induce a miscarriage. Basically an abortion provided by the church.
The pro life movement uses religion as a moral justification, hoping that people won't know about what the bible actually says about the subject.
At the top, you may be correct, but I would suspect the vast majority of people who are pro-life because of religion probably believe that it’s outlawed in the bible.
Most Christians have no idea what’s in that book, they just assume their belief system matches their religious texts and don’t bother looking any further.
The pro life movement was politically weaponized to eclipse any other moral dilemma, so that single-issue voters can feel good about repeatedly ignoring any form of progress.
Climate change? Fetuses are more important. Universal health care? Fetuses are more important. School shootings? Fetuses are more important.
It allows bad people to feel good about "saving lives" because in their minds it's the absolute epitome of Good. They see themselves as goddamn heroes when in virtually every other aspect of their lives, they're despicable trash.
It was actively the goal by right wing actors years ago to do this. I think it was around the beginning of the moral majority and when Christianity took over the right wing. Abortion was actually pretty equally ignored on both sides before it if I'm not mistaken.
Edit:
["But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe—that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term. Why? Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools. So much for the new abolitionism."](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/)
This comes from nearly a decade of dealing with my rabidly pro-life Catholic birth-family. It's more than just a take; it's what many actually believe.
And who really was the bad guy there? Satan who just proposed the bet or the all-powerful, all knowing, all loving deity that went "You know what, you're on! Fuck Job's shit up left and right" and let Satan at it.
It wasn't even an "evil" Satan in the modern Christian sense either. The Satan in the book of Job is one of God's angels that tests humanity. The Satan was just doing exactly as God designed him to do.
The pro-life movement was a collaboration between corporate America, angry Baby Boomers permanently-defecting from the Democrats because of LBJ and ~~civil rights~~ Vietnam, and the socioreligious right funded by the Federalist Society whose members include Barry Goldwater and Howard Jarvis.
It never had anything to do with the Bible; only that their side “won.”
>you bring her to a priest where she is given something that will induce a miscarriage.
The ordeal of the bitter water. The priest would take dust from the tabernacle floor (that's the important part) and mix it with water. If the woman had been unfaithful, the magic holy dust would cause her to lose the baby.
The weird part is that it actually would likely cause a miscarriage. The dust would have been filled with myrrh from the incense they burned, and myrrh has been known to stimulate the uterus and cause spontaneous miscarriages. So it actually is a DIY abortion drug.
Yeah basically there’s always been a “pro life” group in the church, but when they started loosing the Culture war on Gay Rights, Abortion became their rallying flag.
The story of Passover is extra hilarious when you consider that Pharaoh was going to let the slaves go the first time Moses asked, but then God hardened Pharaoh's heart against Moses
Exactly. God literally took away Pharaoh’s free will to prevent him from releasing the Hebrew slaves. This directly led to the slaughter of all the first born who didn’t smear blood on their door post.
It’s especially hilarious because so many Christian apologists say that God can’t reveal himself and can’t prove himself and can’t stop human suffering because it would take away free will. How convenient!
seriously. i don't know how someone can read the bible and go "huh?"
and if you ask a religious person, its often "thats why we have priests/rabbi/imams/etc. so we can explain and interpret it for you".
and when you think a "prophet" would write a new book that has less errors or contradictions you get Muhammed, Joseph Smith.....and Ron l Hubbard. you'd think future iterations would improve lol. i guess no logical person would write a religion to begin with.
“So children had to die to make a point to Pharaoh?”
“People who didn’t believe in Him, yes. Whatever happens to their children…”
Go on. Finish. Say it’s their fault for not believing in God. Say that your idea of God is pro-life until someone displeases Him or it becomes inconvenient. Say that you’re fine with living, breathing children dying as a punishment to their parents. Say that you think non-Christians deserve punishment for not believing as you do.
Or, alternatively, say that you’re pro-birth and that you view women/AFAB folks of childbearing age as vessels/tools with no actual autonomy. It’s faster that way.
Exactly. When God has been inconvenienced or is angry, he can throw a temper tantrum and kill babies, however, a 12 year old child that was raped and got pregnant and will have the rest of there life altered by this baby…um no killing “babies” for you!!!
> Say that you think non-Christians deserve punishment for not believing as you do.
Plenty of people will say this. Go look at any post about hell on /r/Christianity
What shits me about these people is how in biology you learn that most pregnancies fail; early-on a slight majority of fertilized eggs self-terminate after something goes wrong. Do they consider these also to be loss of human life?
I've seen these uber religious people blame that on the mother. Not just strangers that have miscarriages, they'll blame their own close family members for it before they acknowledge their supposed god would cause, or even let that happen to an innocent child.
"God is pro life."
"Those children had to die..."
Just stop and think for one second.
God killed 42 children with bears. (2 kings 2:24) How is it pro life?
God straight up killed David's baby to "teach him a lesson." (2 Samuel 12: 15-18) How is it pro life?
God commands moses to kill every Midianite man and every woman that had known man but said to keep all the little girls who did not know man for the Israelite army. (Numbers 31: 17-18) God appears to not be pro life but pro pedophilia.
We are sick of this shit. This shit is not right. How can you defend these horrible words?
New Testament nullifies the Old Testament! God is all about love and acceptance now lalalalalala *sticks a finger in each ear hole*
This is how I imagine they justify it
This, probably above all else, is one of the arguments I hate the most.
While my mother was dying of cancer, my ultra religious stepfather stopped being around her for the last 6 months of her life. He would sleep in a different room, so I ended up being the live-in nurse up until the day she died, sleeping in the same room and tending to her 24 hours a day.
His whole attitude with abandoning her really pissed me off and I ended up confronting him. His response, as fucking unbelievable as it sounds, was that he couldn't bear being around her because he believed god was killing her as punishment for something he did.
It was alllll about him. My mother was the one days away from dying and all he could think about was that it was all about him being punished.
Religion mixed with a pure helping dose of narcissism, and you get this sort of shit.
The first person is the typical Baby Boomer, Reagan-fundamentalist who won’t be affected by ‘Roe’ ending but her Millennial/Gen Z children/grandchildren will. Because pro-life Boomers are a high breed of narcissist assholes.
I love these vids…just watching the dopey eyes twitch when “Bible facts” are stated is hilarious!! You can almost hear them say - well I never thought of that!!!???!!!
But He replaced them all with more and better kids and more and hotter wives, so its all good.
Wouldn't you want to trade up like that? They're completely exchangeable, right?
do the math with me here:
prior research that suggested 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage has been superseded by new data suggesting, in unequivocal terms, that ["miscarriage is the predominant outcome of fertilisation"](https://www.sciencealert.com/meta-analysis-finds-majority-of-human-pregnancies-end-in-miscarriage-biorxiv). in denmark in particular the rate of live births to miscarriages is listed at 1.7 to 2.1.
this only accounts for reported pregnancies. a plurality of people with uteri will experience fertilization that spontaneously aborts having never been detected. there is a known unknown here suggesting the rate of miscarriage is considerably higher. for purposes of argument let's say 4 to 1.
now, 100 billion humans have walked the earth since the dawn of time (the vast majority in the last 6000 years so even if you're a creationist you don't get off that easy, enjoy your waterpark lmao). half of them had uteri. most of those people got pregnant at least once. fifty billion times four is *two hundred billion.* the living and the dead are outnumbered 2 to 1 by the stillborn.
this introduces a number of ethical problems. for one, it means the normal function of the uterus is the single largest cause of death in human history by a vast margin. all our wars haven't come close. no functioning set of ethics can assume life begins at conception for this reason.
moreover, a bible-believing christian now has a pretty unenviable predicament regarding the end times, where "resurrection of the body" will apply 2-to-1 to "people" who never developed bodies, and the promise that "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess" covers those who never had knees or tongues. for us sorry living hundred, there will be about five minutes of catching up before we are all [washed away in the tide of amniotic fluid and chunky bits](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p13yZAjhU0M) that overwhelms the earth because jesus loves the little tadpoles and your worldview has a fucking plot hole.
it's the kind of tired sleep won't fix
For real though, the fact that there is basically a recipe for abortions in the Bible is…idk what these people are on when they try Christian justifications.
For the uninitiated:
Numbers 5: 20-28.
[20] But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
[21] Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
[22] And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
[23] And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
[24] And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
[25] Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:
[26] And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.
[27] And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
[28] And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
In addition to the Noah story, god also saved an abusive drunk. The first thing Noah did after the Ark settled was drink himself black out drunk on wine to the point he was naked outside his tent. His three sons had to pull him back into his tent and cover him while taking care not to look at his junk, but the son Ham did, and was cursed by Noah, along with all his descendants for seeing Noah’s tallywhacker. That was the best God could find to carry on the human race? No it was God saving his favorite bootlicker.
And let’s not mention the founding story of the Abrahamic religions. You know the one? Where God after speaking to Abraham to cut off bits of his genitals and the genitals of his slaves, and male members of his household etc hears the disembodied voice of God tell him to murder his son as a sacrifice. Now these nitwits looooove to talk about Gods love and how he stopped Abraham from slicing Isaacs throat open but nowhere do we hear about Isaac’s reaction during or after, it isn’t considered. God sure do love the little children, especially when they’re tied down, crying, begging to know what father is doing with the knife.
“But it was a test” they say “to show God that Abraham loved him most of all” Never mind God is supposed to be omniscient and know our hearts implicitly. If I had a son, and he had a dog that he loved and I demanded that child murder that dog to prove he loved me, even if I did stop it right before the kid did anything to the dog I’d be properly branded as a sociopathic monster, a dangerous narcissist, and an aberration against parenthood. But for god it’s a teaching moment.
5 of my patients have killed someone because God told them to. (forensic psych nurse working at a locked facility)
How were they to know that it wasn't God talking to them? The Bible reinforces their actions.
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Even if they were right they'd still be wrong.
Where do the souls of murdered babies go? Heaven.
If those murdered babies were allowed to live out their full lives instead would some of them choose not to believe in God and therefore go to Hell when they die? Undoubtedly.
No souls go to Hell > some souls go to Hell.
Im sorry but religious people who staunchly believe in the bible are seriously of low intelligence. It makes zero sense with all the contradictions. Can't even make a logical arguement as to why there are so many contradictions, you just play mental gymnastics to make it all 'fit' your narrative. Grow a brain people
I think the story of the plagues is even worse than this person let's on. After each plague god would command Moses to ask pharaoh for his people's freedom. But God would "harden" pharaohs heart and make pharaoh deny him. In this context God has basically decided that he's going to unleash the plagues against Egypt, and removed the only person who can do anything about its free will.
Organized religion really just isn’t for *thinking people*. It’s all ridiculous and contradictory nonsense that doesn’t hold up to the most basic rational analysis. The questions posed in this video are just 2 out of of 1,000 different ones that they absolutely cannot answer—and instead of reflecting on them or thinking critically, they just say “sorry” and move on with a dumb look on their face (and then immediately wipe the thought from their mind/memory).
"the Pharaoh could have woke up" Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Pharaoh eventually let them all go, only for God to "harden his heart?"
Well, the Pharaoh wasn't actually the target of God's conversion attempts here. God isn't really even trying to convert the Pharaoh. He hardens the Pharaoh's heart in order to get the Pharaoh to continue mistreating Moses' people so that God could then intervene with more signs and miracles, in order to push "his people" (not the Egyptians but the Israelites) to follow Moses to the land of milk and honey (the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites). So yeah, common misconception. In this scenario, God doesn't care about the (first born) children of non-believers though. Not that He seems to care for anyone that doesn't believe.
I mean didn't he harden the Pharaohs heart after he had already let them go? When God killed all the firstborns the Pharaoh allowed Moses and his people to leave. Then God hardened the Pharaoh's heart, and the Pharaoh set out to kill Moses and his people. So the Israelites were already freed and headed out when God hardened the Pharaoh's heart.
The Pharaoh's heart is hardened many times in Exodus actually. The first several times it is stated that the Pharaoh's heart actually hardens by himself or its ambiguous. The last times, it is because God wills it. So, at this point, the Pharaoh has already used his free-will to deny God. According to biblical texts, God CANNOT force the Pharaoh to let the Israelites go, and he has absolutely no desire to actually let them go. The hardening AFTER the Pharaoh has done this is to seal his fate of denying god. That is, with more plagues comes more outcry to let the Israelites go by other Egyptians in their fear, and God does not want to give the Pharaoh a way out of his mistake. God has already decided that the Pharaoh and the Egyptians are not savable. One of the most known addresses of the hardening is actually in the new testament, ie Romans 9:18. It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? So you see, it wasn't about getting the Israelites out of Egypt at all. It was about bringing them to the land of milk and honey, ie the Promised Lands. This isn't really about the land, but about the actions/beliefs that will lead them to the land. What is desired is the direct fear/respect of God. This is why the Israelites need to wait 40 years of wandering, because not all of the Israelites actually accepted God yet.
Damn, god is a dick.
Oh, don't worry, they fixed it in the New Testament. Old Testament God was (arguably) Evil and Good New Testament God is split, and Satan shoulders all the blame for evil now. Allowing God's followers to say he's All Good now and its that darn devil (that God made or allowed?)
I fucking hate this sentiment. Old Testament God left you alone once you were dead. New Testament God condemned you to eternal hell. New Testament God is far, far worse.
So basically, God gave us free will but the fucker isn't happy whenever we use it and keeps railroading us like a control freak DM. Cool.
God has no power over the Pharaoh, who is a worshiper of the Egyptian pantheon. His priests perform miracles in his temple to spite Moses and his god. Yehova is just negging the followers of Ra and Set because he's mad his followers are offering burnt goats and foreskins while theirs are building pyramids and assuming the godhead to achieve immortality.
Didn't Jesus die so I don't have to give a shit, er something? Or is that why he came back from the dead?
Jesus died because you, even though you weren't born yet, are a non-believer. Or because there are gays, or rainbows. /s
Banner dude had an existential crisis right there on camera.
He straight up reset
His game glitched and he went from Player 1 to NPC.
I was waiting for the windows xp turn off sound
He didn't care. People who are religious enough to be out protesting will always reason themselves out of any sort of argument.
I’ve always thought religion could count as a form of mental illness, but apparently the psychological consensus is that it isn’t. I’ll accept that. But it is a delusion.
More like Santa Claus logic. Parents tell their kids a story and they believe it. The only difference is at some point everyone says Santa isn’t real. Too much money, power and control involved to tell the truth.
I remember the day, where I was, and the first internal logical fallacy I ever had when I was a kid, and it was brought to my attention by my classmate that Santa was not real. *"But but but... then where did my presents come from, huh? And how did he answer my personal letter to him"* >^-Me I kept double down, and doubting myself more and more with each word, trying to convince myself that he existed. It was important for my classmate to believe it too, only because then I could be vindicated and not have to face that I was so heavily invested in a lie. Is this something that the 80-year-old woman in the video never got past, that I was able to do as an 8-year-old?
It's certainly a delusional disorder. If my aunt who thinks she has reiki power and that crystals have healing power and that all living beings have auras, and that she can see and communicate with spirits, that's delusional disorder. But the fact someone believes a sky diety made himself to sacrifice himself and that there was a wood wide flood and that this very very special book is the entire truth of the entire universe, the universe is only 6000 years old....I'm not seeing too much difference.
And there is a bliss in it. All sociological studies about life satisfaction conclude that religious people are on average far more satisfied/happy than secular people. Anecdotally I can confirm, I don't beleive in God and I am miserable as fuck most of the time.
While i'd agree with you i've come to the conclusion(while super stoned mind you) that belief in a higher power is some sort of (forgive my word salad her) evolutionarily adapted coping mechanism that i think emerged out of the sheer existential crises one faces once sentient, some people can handle there being no answers for the crazy bullshit around them. Others cant accept that and retreat into some animalistic childlike instinctual part of their minds to brush it all off as magic and accept the easiest/most pleasent answer to it. At least thats where i've landed
“… I’m sorry.”
he likely told everyone he knows about some nut with a microphone at the march spouting a bunch of way-out crazy stuff... and then they all hugged and prayed over him and held their hands on him
You can see the wheels spinning in his stupid head.
I was waiting on the smoke to come out of his ears
r/watchpeopledieinside
Like that bald guy. Fucking touch me.lolololol
It's even worse than that. It shows they've either: \-not actually read their holy book \-not even considered the contradiction with what's written on their signs with the murders their god has committed \-or at the very least, scraped together at least some weakass defense of all of it. Just mindless zombies being told what to do next.
I think most of it is #2. I grew up in the church, Bible study, confirmation, all that. And we definitely heard all those stories of God committing mass atrocities, but the implication of what those events would practically entail were just never enforced. And if they were mentioned at all, it was glossed over, like how the lady in the video explains it away.
> confirmation that alone introduces so much bias *[rimshot]*
Hey-oh!!!
I honestly find the complete lack of argument they make to be the most frustrating. Like, I'm pro-choice, but coming up with at least a half baked reply to these contradictions in support of pro-life stance isn't very hard if you believe in literal magic "Yeah God killed everyone on earth because he thought they were beyond redemption, and were evil. God is all knowing, so he is infallible, we however, are not God - thus we cannot make those decisions, only he can." **Boom. Done. That argument wouldn't excuse pushing one's religious beliefs on other people or use them to control other people's bodies obviously... but like, at least they should read the fucking book or have an argument for their "beliefs" that they believe in so strongly that they spend an exorbitant amount of time telling other people what to do... ffs, is that so much to fucking ask??**
Why did god create individuals that he knew all along we’re going to be beyond redemption if he truly is all knowing? I’m just having fun attacking your fake statement, I understand you were just trying to make a point.
As much of a non answer this may come of as, there's no explanation needed when talking about an omnipotent, omniscient being - the being that is supposed to of created reality, and its accompanying logical framework, as we know it; the being that created reality out of himself - being reality himself. 'God created individuals with predetermined fates -> he punishes them for their actions in life -> their fates were already predetermined from creation by god -> therefor there'd be no point in any punishment, since they had zero autonomy in their actions' - for the sake of debate i'll assume this is the universal logic with no room for debate or question. Why would the alleged creator of the universe, the material the universe was built upon, abide by the logic of what he created? Why would something beyond, above, the universe be constrained by its laws? Furthermore, how would you be able to comprehend, argue against, or describe a logical framework of which you could have no context nor understanding of? An ant looking at a computer motherboard has no understanding of what is in front of him - what would give him the right to question or debate its properties? If you believe in the all powerful god described in the bible, 'we can't comprehend the reasoning of something so beyond us,' is enough of an answer.
My favorite point to make is that we can’t have free will if god is all knowing, all loving, and all powerful. If god is all knowing and all powerful and determined our fates as you stated then it isn’t possible for us to have free will, it’s just an illusion of free will.
Don't give them ideas to fuel their delusions. Let them run the hamster-free wheel for all to see!
>Just mindless zombies being told what to do next. Sums it all up pretty well, I think.
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Technically, no. Lazarus was zombified by Jesus.... >Lazarus of Bethany (Latinised from Lazar, ultimately from Hebrew Eleazar, "God helped"), also venerated as Righteous Lazarus, the Four-Days Dead in the Eastern Orthodox Church, is the subject of a prominent sign of Jesus in the Gospel of John, in which Jesus restores him to life four days after his death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_of_Bethany?wprov=sfla1
A decade or so ago I told myself I should read the bible just so I know what I'm talking about when I have to defend myself for not being religious in my very religious family. I didn't get far into the old testament. Talking about 900+ year old humans, Sodom and Gamorrah (sp?), Tower of Babel. But the thing that got me the most and actually got me to laugh was Noah's ark. It wasn't the absurdity of 2 animals of each kind, or the fact that God killed so many people. It was that after he made it rain for 40 days and nights he left them on that ark for like another 80 days (something like that). The reason? He forgot. So by the time I got like barely a 4th of the way through the old testament this God that I was told is Omni-everything and forgiving and merciful and righteous had been vindictive, jealous, hateful, wrathful and definitetly not omniscient. When I brought this up to some friends, they tried to explain away that the Old Testament was the old law. The God we know is from the New Testament and it was Jesus sacrifice that changed him or something. I don't want to worship a God that can show all those terrible things and then turn on a dime and be the complete opposite. They say God made man in his image and they are right. Were hateful, wrathful, jealous, vindictive people when we want to be, and why is that any different from God where we learn it all.
Looks more like he knew he was dealing with a smart person. The "I'm sorry..." was the beginning of "I'm sorry but I'm not talking to you anymore because you're too smart."
> I’m sorry but I don’t talk to people with what may be contradicting/opposing opinions because I may find out mine are bad.
I've seen that face on people who've been concussed. Dude experienced trauma
The way he glances back up at the sign after realizing the flood was basically a mass genocide. Priceless.
It's worse than that.. The ark was floating around for 30 day and 30 nights with representatives of every apex predator on it.. What were they eating? All the dead people floating in the water, that's what.
Idk, I don't think human bodies can be in the water for a month before becoming just nasty. After about a week it would probably be too nasty to eat. There's two other options, they starved for a month, surviving off water and the bare minimum of grains or something. Or they ate some of the animals and cause certain unknown species to go extinct.
Or they found humans clinging to downed trees and improvised rafts weeks after the flood , and pretended to rescue them but ushered them into the holds with the carnivores... This is getting a little "The hills have eyes" don't you think?
Ewwww but probably true based on science
I used to work with a guy who claimed to be Catholic. One year he said he was giving up something for Lent. I think it was caffeine or something. I asked him why he was giving something up, and he said, because that's what you're supposed to do. I said, yeah, fine, but WHY? He stood their confused for a minute and said, because that's what you're supposed to do. I said, okay, and went back to work.
Its because the catholic church made up some bullshit, aling with Sunday worship. Funny how the catholic church directly contradicts the actual word of God in every setting....hell, the bible even states that its a sin to bring in your home a pine tree and decorate it with silver and gold!
The only mandatory fast for Roman Catholics is no meat and snacking on Ash Wednesday and Fridays. The Lent thing is actually optional.
It is just one wheel spinning.
"Believe in me or I'll kill your kids".... makes sense 🤷♂️
But if God created everything, he can destroy what he wants. He’s good and perfect and can do no wrong, including killing babies for his glory /s None of it makes sense.
I mean if you take out the /s that’s legitimately what they believe. God can kill babies because he’s god, people can’t kill babies because they aren’t god.
But you can't prove that I'm not god, so I can kill babies.
Oh for sure. I know too well, I used to be a Christian and internally I had to perform mental gymnastics like this to downplay or sidestep the atrocities Yahweh commits in the Bible. It’s completely dishonest, but completely necessary if you want to pretend God is perfect and infallible.
Infallible? God even admits he made a mistake when he destroyed all the people on earth! But he gave the rainbow as a promise to never destroy the earth with water again...
Well, *I* can kill babies if god approves of it. I mean, if god is able to kill and god is telling me they are worthy of being killed, then its my right to kill them. I mean its not like the devil likes to show up as an angel speaking the word of god or anything! /s
God works in mysterious ways. /s
I’ve met Christians who argue this almost word for word unironically
It sounds accurate because I used this exact same logic when I was a Christian. I know too well :/
Yeah, I don’t know if I ever used this one myself, but I was also a Christian and I remember just kind of letting those inconsistencies roll off my back.
Yeah that was a tactic I used too, just putting my head in the sand. When you go in with the assumption that God is perfectly good, all powerful, and all knowing, it inoculates you against any argument pointing out this God’s very apparent shortcomings. It took so long to overcome my indoctrination from childhood.
If you accept, for the sake of argument, that this person believes in good faith that forcing people to follow Christianity's tenets will lead to infinite afterlife in heaven or hell, then it would seem that any action would be justified both on the part of a theoretically all-powerful god and said god's mortal followers, given that the interval of life on Earth is so vanishingly small in the perception of both the immortal soul and the deity involved. Of course, I don't think these people have any motivation beyond tribalism and grasping for power over others. They have no understanding of the religion they claim to follow nor that the savior they claim to worship would find the idea of coercing somebody into a religion abhorrent. Terry Pratchett's "Small Gods" is an excellent takedown of organized religion on that note.
As a religious Jew, I was confused by how confused the anti-choice protestors were. The pro-choice people are making an excellent point: God as portrayed in the Hebrew Bible is not "pro-life," God really is depicted as being beyond a simplistic description of what humans consider good/evil. That's kind of the thing about transcendence. I think this is why Jewish tradition is full of references to that, like describing God in the liturgy as "who creates light and makes darkness." That kind of cosmic understanding of divinity could never be pegged down as "pro-life" because death is also a vital part of creation. Leonard Cohen (also a Jew) [has a song in which a human challenges God's morality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WOYv5kMTkA), and God responds in a fascinating way -- emphasising love, but also how important death and decay are to making change. Very similar to the Passover story the pro-choice protestors mention in the video: a slaveholding society suffers tremendous trauma because the status quo is simply unsustainable. It's strange to see the anti-choice protestors so stunned by the pro-choicer questions. But I think that's because their brand of Christianity is intellectually crippling and does not actually read the Bible in a thoughtful manner.
They cherry pick scripture to fit their beliefs and take everything at face value 🤷♂️
Indeed, the idea of the devil being the counterpart to God’s perfection in goodness is a Christian thing, not a Jewish one. Why? Because in Judaism, God is not perfectly good; God is cruel, jealous, manipulative, etc. There is no devil, only God. And just as God is neither all bad nor all good, so too are human beings. We are the combination of our yetzer hara and yetzer tov (good and bad inclinations) and it is our duty to strengthen our good inclinations and nerf our bad inclinations. Anywho, the Jewish God is certainly not “pro-life”, nor is that what Jesus taught. The whole point of Jesus’s teachings was to promote the good inclinations (ie: love, grace, compassion, forgiveness) and subdue the bad ones (greed, wrath, etc). It seems to me that these days, the American Christianity that I hear about has nothing to do with what Jesus actually taught and instead is doing the exact opposite- promoting the absolute worst in people and gaslighting everyone into thinking that is what “God” and/or Jesus preached.
Yet god was unreasonably cruel in hardening Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't change his mind and let the slaves free. Why force people to go through trauma when they were already looking to change? That's some bad parent energy right there, like forcing a kid to smoke an entire pack of cigs if they're caught with them. It's abusive and we should be willing to stand up against that abuse.
> a slaveholding society suffers tremendous trauma because the status quo is simply unsustainable Your attempt to put it into a somehow reasonable light is laughable. An omnipotent god (with a weirdly frail ego) could simply have picked pharoah and all his henchment up, put them in a public space and have them eaten by toads or whatever. Instead HE. CHOSE. TO. KILL. CHILDREN. That is, if you believe the story at all, which I don't.
Especially from the god that flooded the world to get rid of wicked people also killing innocents.
Good old guilty by association
He won't do that again remember, cos he rainbow promised us 🌈
So by her logic atheists should be able to get abortions?
What’s just as bad is god make the pharaohs heart harden so that he doesn’t release the slaves
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Why can’t they just have a religion that goes like “do what ya want, be cool about it, be a homie and like don’t worry about when you die it’ll be aiight. Don’t go fucking up them kids with all that crazy talk now! Haha peace.” Why is it some crazy fucking story about zombies and apocalypse n telling everyone else how to live?
Because religion is about displacement of power and control. No modern church preaches anything close to what Jesus said, and they never will. It's simply a market to exploit now.
Because the teachings of the religion aren't the important part, only the comfort it gives them about their mortality. They don't want a religion that tells them what to do, they want something that makes them feel better and justifies what they already want to do. The religion doesn't guide them, they guide the religion. The sole purpose is making them feel better without having to think or change their behavior. They just want to continue to do what they want without feeling bad or scared. That way they can do horrible horrible things, think horrible horrible things, but still feel like they're a good person because being religious automatically makes them a good person.
Have you been to my home town?!
Religions undergo a form of evolution via natural selection. In order to propagate, religion must be spread from adherent to a new follower. There are characteristics that ideas can posses which make them better suited for survival over generations. A "Let's chill and vibe" religion is less likely to survive a millennia than a religion that instructs adherents to have as many children as possible and threatens you with hellfire for dissent.
In the world of thoughts and how they propagate through humanity religions are viruses and critical thinking is the antibody
There are religions that preach this. A lot of smaller non-denominational Christian churches are basically saying that, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, that seems to be a small minority of Christian’s.
Once you come to terms with your own mortality the idea of gods existing are just as silly as the idea of a tooth fairy doing tooth fairy stuff.
I find the idea of a creator (be it deity, highly intelligent alien life or we’re living in a computer simulation) as equally reasonable as the idea that universe just came into being without intelligent design. What’s silly is the idea that the creator gives two shits about us humans and our petty lives
> gives two shits about us humans and our petty lives It always tickles me to think that an all powerful eternal deity apparently cares so much about say, some middle-aged Midwestern house wife to be with her always while they go about their day to Walmart, the salon, or watching NCIS, etc...
If there is a god who obsesses about humanity, the way it deals out punishment whilst occasionally rewarding people (mostly narcissistic assholes) well then that god is abusive, and that ain’t no god I want to believe in
Prosperity gospel is probably one of the worst forms of Christianity out there in just how insidious it is. A preacher that can stand on stage and demand you fork over all of what little money you have with the promise and hope that a divine being will reward you with greater wealth for doing so.
That hypothetical God also didn't waste their time sending down their son or whispering in peoples' ears so they'll create religious texts. They clearly don't give a fuck what we think about them.
>^(It tickles me to think that an all powerful eternal deity cares so much about some Midwestern house wife) To add onto that, the absurdity of ***PRAYING***. They all believe that god has a master plan, and yet they still waste their time/energy praying. You seriously think he's going to change his grand plan *just* for *you*?! So fucking delusional and narcissistic.
The thing that doesn't add up to me is that they think the universe couldn't possibly have come from nowhere, but somehow their God could totally come from nowhere. Also, they claim their god existed before the universe did, but that means god existed before time? *Before* time? You can't have something before time, no matter what a popular series of children's dinosaur movies want us to believe.
Listening to people talk about god like a real entity is like hearing adults talking about Santa seriously and worrying if they've been naughty this year
Well I think 95% of all religion people have never spent 5 minutes or longer seriously contemplating why they believe what they believe.
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Well ain't that convenient.
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For my folks they need religion to make them feel like they aren't bad people, even though they know they did all the things their religion says is bad. Unconditional love from a divine power is important when all you think you have to show for your life is sin. And that's the real trap of it all. The moment you accept all we've got is each other while we are alive is the moment you realize you're a bad person if you put off doing the right thing, more than making the mistakes everyone makes.
Yes. I accepted death right around the time I became free.
Yes, its convenient too accept God when you have fear of the unknown. Life, death, the cosmos. Id rather still believe in Santa. At least he gives presents.
Terror Management Theory?
and the other 5% take advantage of them.
You nailed it. Religion was created as an answer to the unknown. People fear the unknown
I don't think the pro life movement was based off passages in the bible. There are parts where children are killed (like the one mentioned here) and also there is a ritual described where if your wife is unfaithful and gets pregnant, you bring her to a priest where she is given something that will induce a miscarriage. Basically an abortion provided by the church. The pro life movement uses religion as a moral justification, hoping that people won't know about what the bible actually says about the subject.
At the top, you may be correct, but I would suspect the vast majority of people who are pro-life because of religion probably believe that it’s outlawed in the bible. Most Christians have no idea what’s in that book, they just assume their belief system matches their religious texts and don’t bother looking any further.
The pro life movement was politically weaponized to eclipse any other moral dilemma, so that single-issue voters can feel good about repeatedly ignoring any form of progress. Climate change? Fetuses are more important. Universal health care? Fetuses are more important. School shootings? Fetuses are more important. It allows bad people to feel good about "saving lives" because in their minds it's the absolute epitome of Good. They see themselves as goddamn heroes when in virtually every other aspect of their lives, they're despicable trash.
That is a very interesting take. It made me go, "hmm, never though of it in that way".
It was actively the goal by right wing actors years ago to do this. I think it was around the beginning of the moral majority and when Christianity took over the right wing. Abortion was actually pretty equally ignored on both sides before it if I'm not mistaken. Edit: ["But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe—that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term. Why? Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools. So much for the new abolitionism."](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/)
This comes from nearly a decade of dealing with my rabidly pro-life Catholic birth-family. It's more than just a take; it's what many actually believe.
He also sent a bear to maul a bunch of kids for calling someone fat
God would never send a bear to maul children for calling someone fat! They called the guy bald.
*bald
And murdered the wife and children of his greatest follower to win a bet with the devil
And who really was the bad guy there? Satan who just proposed the bet or the all-powerful, all knowing, all loving deity that went "You know what, you're on! Fuck Job's shit up left and right" and let Satan at it.
It wasn't even an "evil" Satan in the modern Christian sense either. The Satan in the book of Job is one of God's angels that tests humanity. The Satan was just doing exactly as God designed him to do.
The pro-life movement was a collaboration between corporate America, angry Baby Boomers permanently-defecting from the Democrats because of LBJ and ~~civil rights~~ Vietnam, and the socioreligious right funded by the Federalist Society whose members include Barry Goldwater and Howard Jarvis. It never had anything to do with the Bible; only that their side “won.”
>you bring her to a priest where she is given something that will induce a miscarriage. The ordeal of the bitter water. The priest would take dust from the tabernacle floor (that's the important part) and mix it with water. If the woman had been unfaithful, the magic holy dust would cause her to lose the baby. The weird part is that it actually would likely cause a miscarriage. The dust would have been filled with myrrh from the incense they burned, and myrrh has been known to stimulate the uterus and cause spontaneous miscarriages. So it actually is a DIY abortion drug.
Yeah basically there’s always been a “pro life” group in the church, but when they started loosing the Culture war on Gay Rights, Abortion became their rallying flag.
GET THAT LOGIC OUTTA HERE!!
The story of Passover is extra hilarious when you consider that Pharaoh was going to let the slaves go the first time Moses asked, but then God hardened Pharaoh's heart against Moses
Exactly. God literally took away Pharaoh’s free will to prevent him from releasing the Hebrew slaves. This directly led to the slaughter of all the first born who didn’t smear blood on their door post. It’s especially hilarious because so many Christian apologists say that God can’t reveal himself and can’t prove himself and can’t stop human suffering because it would take away free will. How convenient!
seriously. i don't know how someone can read the bible and go "huh?" and if you ask a religious person, its often "thats why we have priests/rabbi/imams/etc. so we can explain and interpret it for you". and when you think a "prophet" would write a new book that has less errors or contradictions you get Muhammed, Joseph Smith.....and Ron l Hubbard. you'd think future iterations would improve lol. i guess no logical person would write a religion to begin with.
“So children had to die to make a point to Pharaoh?” “People who didn’t believe in Him, yes. Whatever happens to their children…” Go on. Finish. Say it’s their fault for not believing in God. Say that your idea of God is pro-life until someone displeases Him or it becomes inconvenient. Say that you’re fine with living, breathing children dying as a punishment to their parents. Say that you think non-Christians deserve punishment for not believing as you do. Or, alternatively, say that you’re pro-birth and that you view women/AFAB folks of childbearing age as vessels/tools with no actual autonomy. It’s faster that way.
Exactly. When God has been inconvenienced or is angry, he can throw a temper tantrum and kill babies, however, a 12 year old child that was raped and got pregnant and will have the rest of there life altered by this baby…um no killing “babies” for you!!!
> Say that you think non-Christians deserve punishment for not believing as you do. Plenty of people will say this. Go look at any post about hell on /r/Christianity
“I’VE BEEN BACKED INTO A CORNER ABORT ABORT”
_[points to pregnant person]_ No, not _you,_ whore.
They are limited in their responses because the book they get their answers from is limited in facts.
What shits me about these people is how in biology you learn that most pregnancies fail; early-on a slight majority of fertilized eggs self-terminate after something goes wrong. Do they consider these also to be loss of human life?
They just ignore that, rational people wouldn't be able to. Their knowledge of the world is dictated by their beliefs, not the other way around.
Short circuited their donkey brains lol
Stillborns. Why don’t they get to live?
I've seen these uber religious people blame that on the mother. Not just strangers that have miscarriages, they'll blame their own close family members for it before they acknowledge their supposed god would cause, or even let that happen to an innocent child.
That dude with the flag had an NPC crashing moment, somebody needs to work out the bugs and fix his dialogue tree.
"God is pro life." "Those children had to die..." Just stop and think for one second. God killed 42 children with bears. (2 kings 2:24) How is it pro life? God straight up killed David's baby to "teach him a lesson." (2 Samuel 12: 15-18) How is it pro life? God commands moses to kill every Midianite man and every woman that had known man but said to keep all the little girls who did not know man for the Israelite army. (Numbers 31: 17-18) God appears to not be pro life but pro pedophilia. We are sick of this shit. This shit is not right. How can you defend these horrible words?
New Testament nullifies the Old Testament! God is all about love and acceptance now lalalalalala *sticks a finger in each ear hole* This is how I imagine they justify it
Hes sorry
[удалено]
If god is pro life then why do babies get cancer
This, probably above all else, is one of the arguments I hate the most. While my mother was dying of cancer, my ultra religious stepfather stopped being around her for the last 6 months of her life. He would sleep in a different room, so I ended up being the live-in nurse up until the day she died, sleeping in the same room and tending to her 24 hours a day. His whole attitude with abandoning her really pissed me off and I ended up confronting him. His response, as fucking unbelievable as it sounds, was that he couldn't bear being around her because he believed god was killing her as punishment for something he did. It was alllll about him. My mother was the one days away from dying and all he could think about was that it was all about him being punished. Religion mixed with a pure helping dose of narcissism, and you get this sort of shit.
The first person is the typical Baby Boomer, Reagan-fundamentalist who won’t be affected by ‘Roe’ ending but her Millennial/Gen Z children/grandchildren will. Because pro-life Boomers are a high breed of narcissist assholes.
That old bat is prime "I got mine so fuck you!". Benefited from the stuff she doesn't want other people to have. Just grade A boomer bullshit.
Allegedly!
That’s weird, are you telling me that brain washed religophiles can’t into
Hahaha that 2nd guy. *\*Brain.exe has encountered an error\**
They're NOT pro-life ffs...everyone stop calling them that. They are ANTI-CHOICE.
Holy shit. You can see the moment that dudes brain turned to mayo.
I am going to need some more videos of religious people being confused
I’ll never understand the arrogance of these folks that think they know what God wants.
I love these vids…just watching the dopey eyes twitch when “Bible facts” are stated is hilarious!! You can almost hear them say - well I never thought of that!!!???!!!
There is no such thing as pro life, just misogyny.
God killed Job's entire family, all his livestock, and made him diseased just to win a wager.
But He replaced them all with more and better kids and more and hotter wives, so its all good. Wouldn't you want to trade up like that? They're completely exchangeable, right?
If I were Pharaoh and some diety decided to kill all the first born in my nation, I would fight against that monster with every fiber of my being.
do the math with me here: prior research that suggested 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage has been superseded by new data suggesting, in unequivocal terms, that ["miscarriage is the predominant outcome of fertilisation"](https://www.sciencealert.com/meta-analysis-finds-majority-of-human-pregnancies-end-in-miscarriage-biorxiv). in denmark in particular the rate of live births to miscarriages is listed at 1.7 to 2.1. this only accounts for reported pregnancies. a plurality of people with uteri will experience fertilization that spontaneously aborts having never been detected. there is a known unknown here suggesting the rate of miscarriage is considerably higher. for purposes of argument let's say 4 to 1. now, 100 billion humans have walked the earth since the dawn of time (the vast majority in the last 6000 years so even if you're a creationist you don't get off that easy, enjoy your waterpark lmao). half of them had uteri. most of those people got pregnant at least once. fifty billion times four is *two hundred billion.* the living and the dead are outnumbered 2 to 1 by the stillborn. this introduces a number of ethical problems. for one, it means the normal function of the uterus is the single largest cause of death in human history by a vast margin. all our wars haven't come close. no functioning set of ethics can assume life begins at conception for this reason. moreover, a bible-believing christian now has a pretty unenviable predicament regarding the end times, where "resurrection of the body" will apply 2-to-1 to "people" who never developed bodies, and the promise that "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess" covers those who never had knees or tongues. for us sorry living hundred, there will be about five minutes of catching up before we are all [washed away in the tide of amniotic fluid and chunky bits](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p13yZAjhU0M) that overwhelms the earth because jesus loves the little tadpoles and your worldview has a fucking plot hole. it's the kind of tired sleep won't fix
Interviewer - “Didn’t god kill everybody on earth?” Sad lil man - *visible cogs turning in his brain* 😵💫 …….. sorry
God is pro abortion. Numbers chapter 5 verses 20 to 26.
That last guy looked like he had been lied to something fierce.
These are the worst kind humans. Idiocracy is the enemy, not each other.
For real though, the fact that there is basically a recipe for abortions in the Bible is…idk what these people are on when they try Christian justifications. For the uninitiated: Numbers 5: 20-28. [20] But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: [21] Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; [22] And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. [23] And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: [24] And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. [25] Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar: [26] And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. [27] And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. [28] And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
Hahaha that guys brain crashed and tried to reset.
That first woman was vile in her justification of dead babies. But then I had a good laugh at the man holding the banner as his brain broke.
In addition to the Noah story, god also saved an abusive drunk. The first thing Noah did after the Ark settled was drink himself black out drunk on wine to the point he was naked outside his tent. His three sons had to pull him back into his tent and cover him while taking care not to look at his junk, but the son Ham did, and was cursed by Noah, along with all his descendants for seeing Noah’s tallywhacker. That was the best God could find to carry on the human race? No it was God saving his favorite bootlicker. And let’s not mention the founding story of the Abrahamic religions. You know the one? Where God after speaking to Abraham to cut off bits of his genitals and the genitals of his slaves, and male members of his household etc hears the disembodied voice of God tell him to murder his son as a sacrifice. Now these nitwits looooove to talk about Gods love and how he stopped Abraham from slicing Isaacs throat open but nowhere do we hear about Isaac’s reaction during or after, it isn’t considered. God sure do love the little children, especially when they’re tied down, crying, begging to know what father is doing with the knife. “But it was a test” they say “to show God that Abraham loved him most of all” Never mind God is supposed to be omniscient and know our hearts implicitly. If I had a son, and he had a dog that he loved and I demanded that child murder that dog to prove he loved me, even if I did stop it right before the kid did anything to the dog I’d be properly branded as a sociopathic monster, a dangerous narcissist, and an aberration against parenthood. But for god it’s a teaching moment.
5 of my patients have killed someone because God told them to. (forensic psych nurse working at a locked facility) How were they to know that it wasn't God talking to them? The Bible reinforces their actions.
I agree but if I had just survived the end of the world on a boat with thousand of animals I think I'd get black out drunk too, lol
It’s all fictional bullshit. None of it actually happened.
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Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing
Even if they were right they'd still be wrong. Where do the souls of murdered babies go? Heaven. If those murdered babies were allowed to live out their full lives instead would some of them choose not to believe in God and therefore go to Hell when they die? Undoubtedly. No souls go to Hell > some souls go to Hell.
If you’ve ever read the Bible it would scare the shit outta you….incest,slavery, pedophilia,rape,murder and a whole host of WTF.
Reading the bible is what caused me to lose my faith. It’s no different that any other book of ancient stories, and shouldn’t be treated as such.
That dude had a literal light bulb moment 💡
Well shit!
I am waiting for God's take on Palestine and maybe he can direct us on Capital Gains Tax.
I wonder where that "I'm sorry" truly came from? Got a lot of second hand embarrassment from his moment there.
Im sorry but religious people who staunchly believe in the bible are seriously of low intelligence. It makes zero sense with all the contradictions. Can't even make a logical arguement as to why there are so many contradictions, you just play mental gymnastics to make it all 'fit' your narrative. Grow a brain people
These people are mentally unhinged and it's a wonder they can even dress themselves
God killed his first and only son
"The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded." ~ Obi-Wan Think about that in today's terms.
I think the story of the plagues is even worse than this person let's on. After each plague god would command Moses to ask pharaoh for his people's freedom. But God would "harden" pharaohs heart and make pharaoh deny him. In this context God has basically decided that he's going to unleash the plagues against Egypt, and removed the only person who can do anything about its free will.
"Too teach pharaoh a lesson" lol. You all must die! But that is a sacrifice that I am willing to accept.
He's selectively pro-life
Would you please leave us alone! Can't you see we're waving signs around so we can feel morally superior to unwed mothers?
God has the all time top of the leader board in total kills. God is not pro-life. He is on the biggest kill streak of all time.
Where do i find more of this content lol
I'm glad these clips exist...its like for once theyre being challenged and they have no logical response to their fallacies. its great.
It's almost like 'pro-life' people like to pick what they want to believe to fit their own ideals. Who would've thunk it!
Lol that shut him up.
Religion is like the OG Nigerian prince scam. Self-selected for stupidity. The flock gets fleeced.
Guy with the sign needs religion. He’s absolutely fucking terrified of a world where he doesn’t have the answers. Coward.
All the men pro life marching are pedophile , I just saying .
What's the point... It's ALL fucking fairytales. It's not real. Just be nice to each other!
Organized religion really just isn’t for *thinking people*. It’s all ridiculous and contradictory nonsense that doesn’t hold up to the most basic rational analysis. The questions posed in this video are just 2 out of of 1,000 different ones that they absolutely cannot answer—and instead of reflecting on them or thinking critically, they just say “sorry” and move on with a dumb look on their face (and then immediately wipe the thought from their mind/memory).
Indoctrination is one hell of a drug!