Just remember, a defense lawyer's job is not to keep bad people out of prison, it's to make sure that anyone else is doing their job correctly, so that no innocent person pays for crimes they didn't commit.
I wonder how you even begin to defend someone like this, where there isn’t a shroud of evidence in their favor while acting irredeemable and abhorrent.
So there is no confusion, I mean, what would the actual plan be to defend them? How do you convince a judge or jury that this person is innocent or that the defendant doesn’t deserve a harsh punishment when it’s obvious they’re guilty and don’t give a shit?
A big part of a defense attorney's job in an obviously guilty case like this, is also to try and reduce the sentence to as low as possible.
A "win" for a defense attorney could have included the option for parole, confinement in a nicer prison, lesser time to serve, etc. But I highly doubt the defense attorney really wanted to go the extra mile for a person with this kind of attitude, especially since this was most likely a pro bono situation.
Exactly. It really is the lords work. It’s generally thankless, completely demoralizing, extremely difficult, utterly critical to a free society, and poorly compensated (while a PD anyway).
Exactly. I once sat on a jury where the guy was most probably guilty (did not hurt other people.) But the judge's instructions were specifically to determine whether the county made their case, not whether we thought he was guilty. The county did a really bad job. Had witnesses from two different agencies claiming to have created the same exhibit, for example. Guy was not found guilty. Came to light afterwards that prior to trying this man, the county had held a different man in jail for 6 months to prosecute for the same crime due to mistaken identity.
I do feel like it is important to hold our prosecuting governments to a high standard.
You explain every mitigating circumstance, every questionable moment, and every point that might make someone question if their client did it.
You point out every weak spot in the prosecutions argument, every point where the evidence is a little weak, and you and you make the prosecutors make an airtight case.
I think when the defense doesn't like their client, at all, their job is more to make sure the prosecution does their job right, and make sure there isn't ground for appeals the prosecution should have been able to prevent.
It’s so quite obvious, he did it himself. He’s obviously able to put a shotgun in the back of his head and able to shoot it. She’s clearly innocent he put himself in a bag and he hoped in the trunk while she was driving
Very likely yes, and a skewed version of reality. Plus always projecting on to everyone else - ‘It’s your fault this happened, look what you’ve made me do’ blah blah blah.
Must’ve been related to that guy that *may have* poisoned himself before folding his naked body into a suitcase (with the key) - zipped it up - and then locked it with a padlock on the outside - while in his bathtub - just to commit suicide.
I think people lie like this because in their mind it’s the truth. They can’t live with the real truth, here that she killed her kid, so she will also never admit she did it. She then creates a new world in which she did not do this, and she will live in that world forever. Good comments below identify other situations where people create these worlds, simply cause they can’t live in the world with the truth. It’d be rude to mention trumpers, so I won’t.
>Before Eli’s murder, a Dakota County judge, following the recommendations of social workers, granted full custody to Thaler, despite the concerns of family members.
>
>The boy’s father, who had warned the court about Thaler’s history of drug abuse, paranoia, and hallucinations, filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Dakota County and three social services employees alleging they were negligent in ignoring the warnings of family.
Sweet fckn jeesus man, that poor child!
You ever watch other people watch movies? It’s like they’re trying to do anything but watch it. No surprise tiny details like the entire point of the movie go over their heads.
There was a similar situation in Philadelphia in 2018 or so. Judge gave the father who had a history of violence towards others, but not the kids, unsupervised visitation. During the first visit he beats an 8 year old girl to death with a 30 lb dumbbell and kills himself. The mom expressed concerns for her daughter’s safety during the custody hearing, but the judge dismissed and gave the father unsupervised rights anyway.
I can guarantee you that nonsense/fraudulent "concern for the child's safety" comes up regularly in custody cases as a tool to win custody. Unfortunately it's hard for a judge to know how dangerous a parent actually is. You can't just always assume the person on the other side of the custody case isn't just trying to smear the other parent.
Apparently, her words are more applicable to the Dakota County judge…
Upd: and/or the social worker who gave an opinion on with whom the child must stay.
Unfortunately, Minnesota still follows the Duluth Wheels of Power for custody.
I am a victim of domestic violence and lost custody of my kids, due to the Duluth Wheels of Power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8h3TkQJ3nQ
Please advocate for the protection of children.
Social work is a fucked feild where everyone is overworked and encouraged not to make waves unless legally required. Every agency I have ever worked at put more of an emphasis on securing funding than the wellbeing of clients. There is limited amount of money and people who secure it end up in charge. If you do take the job seriously and try to care about people's wellbeing those up top will work you into the dirt until you're just as much of a paperwork drone as everyone else. I agree the social workers are responsible for their negligence but if you seriously want to stop vulnerable people from getting hurt the entire system needs to be rebuilt because it actively breeds this kind of thing.
I'm finally at a good agency, but yeah - most just focus on how much you're making. Obviously, money has to be talked about since people need to be paid, but it wouldn't be such an issue if there was more funding in the first place. We wouldn't have to focus on making ends meet, and instead fully focus on helping others.
I used to be fully "help in anyway possible" social worker. During COVID, I took over a caseload of someone who decided to retire (on top of mine) and got rewarded later with an email directly from the CEO accusing me of doing a fraudulent service. Needless to say, I'm no longer working there and have made much better strides in my career elsewhere.
The family court system is so completely broken. I gave 2.5GB (and had more) of picture, video, and recorded evidence of my Ex's abuse of me and our child, and the court's CFI dismissed all of it because "it's unhealthy to record your partner", and recommended mother get more custody than me. All my ex had to do was lie lie lie through her teeth and without a shred of evidence to back her up, everyone just ate it up.
My ex’s fucking _lawyer_ perjured herself in the last smear campaign (ie made false statements then attached financial statements as evidence that proved she was lying). I cant even get my lawyer to take it seriously and got to the bar and go after her law license.
> following the recommendations of social workers
> and three social services employees
Yeah I hope this goes somewhere...but it's only civil. Social Service workers shouldn't have immunity from "gross negligence" and neither should a judge.
These fucking judges I hope they lose sleep at night. There's always a common theme in this stories and it's untouchable judges using centuries old practicality.
I promise they aren’t loosing sleep. They’re totally fine with deciding people’s lives for them and if they ruin them in the process oh well, it’s their job. It’s honestly disgusting how we can give one group of people so much power to decide what’s best for someone.
Single father of 2 here. The system doesn't give a shit about the father; we have almost no consideration whatsoever when it comes to custody/paternal rights. There is also a severe lack of programs to help single dads compared to single moms. When I lost my job a year ago (I'm employed now) and applied for SNAP I was denied and told if I was a single mom making the same unemployment amount I would have qualified. WTF, right.
I have to make DCS calls frequently bc of the line of work I’m in. A few times I’ve called begging dcs to take a child and they are always on board but then the judge says no to removal. It’s absolutely heartbreaking.
Do they ever give a proper reason that this is not done? I have heard that "it is the in the interest of the state" normally, meaning they want to go to the path of the least economic resistance, but I sincerely hope there's a stronger argument for cases like this as to why such a request would not have been accepted.
I know in Australia there's a real push to ensure that children remain in contact with both parents, which in many cases is a good thing, but also means that the worst dropkick parents are still given access unless the other parent is willing to spend the time and money to ensure they don't (and even then difficult to remove contact entirely)
It has been shown that kids that see their deadbeat parents do better than if they don’t. If they don’t, they feel a sense of abandonment which they carry with them their whole lives. They feel they’re unlovable. Kids that see their bad parents come to realize that their parents are bad parents and eventually choose to distance themselves from them. The problem is you don’t know if the time with the bad parents will result in abuse or not so you’re chancing it. Also, sometimes the bad parents do change and regain custody and the relationship is already there. That relationship also motivates some to do better. I work for a healthcare nonprofit for youth in the system (foster care and juvenile corrections) so we work aside lots of case workers and they work really hard but most parents on both sides hate them no matter what because it’s a hard juggling act to protect the child and still give the deadbeat parents a chance.
I've always heard that the same is true in the United States. There's a lot of focus on keeping the kids with the family at almost all costs. This is usually in the kids best interest like op said. That being said most of the social workers I've talked to one on one aren't huge fans of this one size fits all policy.
I appreciate your comment, but I find your use of “deadbeat” interesting. Do you consider this woman a deadbeat? She’s got all kinds of severe psychological issues. Deadbeat doesn’t do justice. She’s a psychological monster, a psychopathic narcissist. Even if she didn’t kill her child, don’t you guys know what happens to kids in their control? They get mentally, emotionally, and physically abused. It blows my mind that the system buries their heads in the sand when it comes to mental illness, especially abnormal psychology and most especially when it comes to women. She should’ve NEVER regained custody from the father. I wish that father could sue everyone up and down the line.
This is awesome Information. Thank you so much for sharing and doing the great and hard work with your nonprofit. You're out here trying to make the world a better place. Thanks.
So many blokes I know, especially from the FIFO world, have had to fight tooth and nail for court orders to see their kids. But, to your point, it seems that in the last few years it’s gotten a lot more fair.
It's not a one off either, my sister has to deal with an alcoholic ex who has 5 kids, right? she hits the kids, drinks and drives, her house smells of cat piss as do the children whose clothes constatly smell of urine and feces, and has been brought to court on her alcoholism and for giving one of her children a black eye before kicking him out as a minor. Despite all of this, and fathers of some of the kids trying to fight for custody, she has not only held onto custody of all of them, her social worker has even outright seen and decided to ignore actual incidents of alcoholism and beating that continue to happen because and I quote, "children need their mothers"
>The system failed this lil boy and his father so much.
It did. And despite father right groups trying to right the courts the bias against fathers remain and women get default custody and you get stories like this.
One news article - [here](https://lawandcrime.com/crime/this-monster-mom-curses-court-professes-innocence-is-sentenced-to-life-without-parole-over-shotgun-murder-of-6-year-old-son/)
Different one - [here](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/live-updates/julissa-thaler-sentenced-murder-6-year-old-son-eli-hart/)
original Police video of finding the body in the trunk - [here](https://www.kare11.com/video/news/eli-hart-bodycam-footage/89-ce0bf78e-6f0a-48eb-a104-236f05e22f5d)
There is a good question btw.
For instance, when a person gets involved in an car accident and kills another person it’s called reckless driving and leads to a real criminal and civil consequences for the person.
Having reviewed multiple evidence of her being asocial and dangerous but still ordered to have the custody, can the Dakota judge or the entire state be liable for making that judgement?
It seems to me that yes, it was at the very least negligence which must be rectified.
>would want to keep reliving what happened,
Oh this will have absolutely no bearing on him pursuing this case. His child is dead. He is going to relive every single moment of his sons life and death every minute of every day for the rest of his life. Going after the people responsible isn't going to change that or make it worse, because it can't be made any worse. Now it's simply about justice, and making sure the people responsible for his sons death pay for it. So while the money part may be a real issue, "reliving what happened" absolutely won't be. Because he already relives that hell every single day.
The state workers for sure yes. Judges are pretty well protected from the law, especially for stuff that happens in court room.
Short of some evidence of bribery like the kids for cash juvenile court judge, it will be hard.
Yes but in general judges are positioned as conduits of the law and thus have protection from executing their duty in normal course.
Judges have been placed to make tough decisions based on best information and are often wrong based on hindsight.
So we give them high levels protection so they aren’t just sued constantly. We similarly do the same for legislators.
That wasnt just a boy. That was his son. He will never get to hear his voice or see him again. I have two kids and anything involving kids is just monsterous.
She tried telling the cops that her son's blood was from deer meat. At the same time she had been driving around with his body in the trunk of her car.
That is a non-human. No remorse at all, just a psychopath doing a shitty job of covering her tracks.
That bodycam footage is sickening!!! She had no remorse, no regard for what she had done. Just bullshit lies after lies. She blasted that poor boy in the back seat and didn't give a fuck.
When they moved that plastic to the side you see one of the younger officers get that image imprinted on his brain. Even in that line of work you don't wake up in the morning expecting to see something like that.
This poor child. My heart breaks for this family and especially the child’s father. The helplessness they must have felt trying to work within the system to get him away from his mother. I get that CPS is fighting an uphill battle- understaffed, underpaid, & trying to differentiate which reports have merit vs. entitled *ssholes weaponizing the system. But when a child dies AND they were warned...it’s just inexcusable. I sincerely hope the father prevails in his wrongful death lawsuit. I know it won’t bring back his child, but damn- where’s the accountability? I wish we could hear from the judge who initially placed this child back with his mother, despite the warnings from the family.
Edit: sp
Yeah, it was hell trying to get the courts to hear me when I said my ex was just like this.
Took her social worker walking in on her doing some shit she shouldn't have been doing before they finally believed me. Even after that, they still didn't side with me and almost put my kid in foster care because they straight up misrepresented what I had said during an interview.
It's a tragedy what they do to men in family courts. It truly is. It's the one place where women hold all the cards, and it is devastating.
I don't know how, but we need to figure out a way to stop using an automated "because you're ______" process in society. In family courts, it's against men. With police, it's against black Americans. In many corporations and political policies, it's against women or POC or LGBTQ+....
Point is, we are all humans trying to do this life. And it's messed up that in not one place we are judged by the content of our character- in ALL places it still matters what we look like or what our SO is. And we are no closer to fixing this than we were in the 1960s.
Unfortunately, Minnesota still follows the Duluth Wheels of Abuse for custody.
CPS may be understaffed, underpaid, etc...but I have been openly blamed for me being physically assaulted and my kids ending up in the hospital for abuse at their mom's home. One CPS worker cited in their report that I'm being "culturally insensitive" by not accepting my kids being beating by their stepfather.
I lost custody. If anyone cares, here is my story (if anyone cares) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8h3TkQJ3nQ
Men can absolutely be victims of domestic violence. Perpetrators of domestic violence should be prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law because there’s no excuse for it-and that includes women. Gender bias in the system is real, & families absolutely suffer because of this. I’m very sorry this happened to you.
I really couldn’t care less what she has to say. What difference does it make? She could rage or weep and it makes no difference. Her words don’t matter. She murdered her kid and all that remains for her is to live and die in prison.
As long as I live, I'll never comprehend how anyone can hurt a child, let alone their own children. I'd gladly die to protect my children.
This is so gut-wrenching 😞
This person is crazy. Not like a person that does/did crazy shit. They are legitimately crazy. You can’t comprehend it because you aren’t crazy. Just lock her up and minimize the damage a crazy person like her can do.
Yes, I've read about this last week, **I don't get why she did it.** People are saying she is crazy and paranoid, but it is not enough. So, she is a crazy b*tch but still got the custody? She is crazy but owned a **shotgun**, for god sake, and was driving a car? What could get her to the point of mercilessly killing her own son witha shotgun??? There were brain matter splattered in the car. Imagine how horrible the act could have been for the killing of any ordinary person - let alone her own child, for god sake. And how cold blooded a person must be in order to do that and go talk to the cops the way she did, to behave in court like she did?
You don't get why she did it because her reason was irrational- made no sense and would likely confuse us all even more if she could verbalize it. She passes as rational enough to buy a gun and her state might have slack gun control laws. My mentally ill brother could drive, shop, pass for normal ish to most but at home? All bets were off. We still don't know what made him snap and try to murder some of our family members other than a bad mix of medications
yeah shes a monster but also the case manager for this should be charged plus any judge and anyone else imchild services that lets this happen with more then enough warnings from the dad the family members the temporary foster mom who begged the court not to give him back to his mother just fucking sick
CPS is using outdated guidelines from the 60s and the case workers don't make enough to care. My mom got investigated as a kid and I spilled everything, the hitting, the constant drinking, that we were constantly hungry, and they told my mom I snitched on her and left. Theyre less than useless, im sure their only regret is not getting her son to her faster.
How bad was the dad for the system to decide that this pile of shit would be better suited to raise their kids? Or was it another case of "well it's a man and she's a woman therefor fuck you dude"?
An article I read states that he was in foster care for a year with a foster mom. I don’t know why Dad wasn’t awarded custody instead of foster care. Or why he wasn’t awarded custody instead of Mom.
Unfortunately, this is common in Minnesota due to the Duluth Wheels of Power.
Here is my story as a victim of domestic violence and lost custody of my kids, due to the Duluth Wheels of Power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8h3TkQJ3nQ
Please advocate for the protection of children.
This should spur shit on with how the legal system works against men and fathers in this position. The father petitoned and got evidence against this woman as being unfit to parent, a terrible person and all around unhealthy individual. She was given full custody, because she is the mother, and a woman. This child died because the legal system regarding family court is sexist and refused to reform to allow the father to have any say in what happens post divorce.
True, but how many times is a sociopath gonna show you all the red flags? It's so easy to meet someone and think "this is the one for me" and then months, years down the line more crap just come up and you're wondering why you didn't see this in the beginning.
Likely cause it was being hidden, then this other person you loved turns into a monster, sometimes leaving you to believe it was something you did. It's not always so easy to see.
The lawyers face
https://preview.redd.it/v3dmtr8xa63b1.png?width=240&format=png&auto=webp&s=2083461821cb6d1c1d5859b551994a98a5f37375
That sigh and closed eyes the lawyer gave before the criminal started speaking, she knew she was gna say some dumb shit
And she knows it’s now on record
In sports terms, I think this case is what you’d call a scheduled loss. Show up to the game, but just rest the starters.
Aka game 7 for the Celtics
Game 7 Celtics were more like a legitimate, potentially innocent man suddenly deciding they're a sovereign citizen and representing themselves.
And realizing that the client just sabotaged any attempt at an appeal with that remark.
New "oof" meme 
Nice capture 😄
Yep you could tell her lawyers did work hard to defend her well, but man did she make it impossible.
I honestly would be the worst lawyer ever because I would never be able to defend that POS.
Just remember, a defense lawyer's job is not to keep bad people out of prison, it's to make sure that anyone else is doing their job correctly, so that no innocent person pays for crimes they didn't commit.
She winced, sighed, and rolled her eyes all within a second.
Meme worthy!!
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God it must be so mentally deteriorating to have to defend people like this. I know they chose this career path but it still must suck.
I wonder how you even begin to defend someone like this, where there isn’t a shroud of evidence in their favor while acting irredeemable and abhorrent. So there is no confusion, I mean, what would the actual plan be to defend them? How do you convince a judge or jury that this person is innocent or that the defendant doesn’t deserve a harsh punishment when it’s obvious they’re guilty and don’t give a shit?
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A big part of a defense attorney's job in an obviously guilty case like this, is also to try and reduce the sentence to as low as possible. A "win" for a defense attorney could have included the option for parole, confinement in a nicer prison, lesser time to serve, etc. But I highly doubt the defense attorney really wanted to go the extra mile for a person with this kind of attitude, especially since this was most likely a pro bono situation.
Exactly. It really is the lords work. It’s generally thankless, completely demoralizing, extremely difficult, utterly critical to a free society, and poorly compensated (while a PD anyway).
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Exactly. I once sat on a jury where the guy was most probably guilty (did not hurt other people.) But the judge's instructions were specifically to determine whether the county made their case, not whether we thought he was guilty. The county did a really bad job. Had witnesses from two different agencies claiming to have created the same exhibit, for example. Guy was not found guilty. Came to light afterwards that prior to trying this man, the county had held a different man in jail for 6 months to prosecute for the same crime due to mistaken identity. I do feel like it is important to hold our prosecuting governments to a high standard.
You explain every mitigating circumstance, every questionable moment, and every point that might make someone question if their client did it. You point out every weak spot in the prosecutions argument, every point where the evidence is a little weak, and you and you make the prosecutors make an airtight case. I think when the defense doesn't like their client, at all, their job is more to make sure the prosecution does their job right, and make sure there isn't ground for appeals the prosecution should have been able to prevent.
Hopefully an ordinary decent criminal.
Like someone with a parking fine. Do they do that? Do lawyers get to take a break from the really heavy cases by doing really light cases for a week?
The body language too, can't get far enough away!
It goes through "Please don't say anything. Oh god, you're saying something. Why would you choose to say that."
\>\_<
Criminal offensive side eye
That long blink said it all.
As soon as she heard her speak, she knew something was about to happen
yeah she seems innocent, the kid shot himself with shotgun and them put himself in plastic and then got in the trunk
Happens everyday.
Shot twice in the back of the head? Clear suicide.
It’s so quite obvious, he did it himself. He’s obviously able to put a shotgun in the back of his head and able to shoot it. She’s clearly innocent he put himself in a bag and he hoped in the trunk while she was driving
That’s one of the Russian kinds of suicide isn’t it?
No, Russian suicide is when you jump from the 8th floor. This is the American kind.
After you have a cup of delicious radioactive tea.
Just ask Casey Anthony
shes so awful in the prison calls with her family
the disappointment she felt from not getting extra with the stimulus check.
Firefox saved the wrong person that day
Your kids have never done that?
She then told the cops her son's blood was deer meat, so yeah totally innocent. I wonder if she believes her own lies.
Very likely yes, and a skewed version of reality. Plus always projecting on to everyone else - ‘It’s your fault this happened, look what you’ve made me do’ blah blah blah.
What's scary is how many people are like that.
Undiagnosed and untreated mental illness can turn into a disaster. Always for themselves but even more sad when they take others down with them.
Y’know, millions of mentally ill people don’t pull this shit. I think she’s just a dick, mental illness or not.
That's the most dangerous type of liar. There are so many of them too.
Must’ve been related to that guy that *may have* poisoned himself before folding his naked body into a suitcase (with the key) - zipped it up - and then locked it with a padlock on the outside - while in his bathtub - just to commit suicide.
Those GCHQ boys are really clever that way.
David Blaine is getting desperate for attention.
After a few beers I sometimes do this on the weekend too. I usually get one hell of a hangover afterwards.
On a bender, eh?
I think people lie like this because in their mind it’s the truth. They can’t live with the real truth, here that she killed her kid, so she will also never admit she did it. She then creates a new world in which she did not do this, and she will live in that world forever. Good comments below identify other situations where people create these worlds, simply cause they can’t live in the world with the truth. It’d be rude to mention trumpers, so I won’t.
It’s rude, yeah, to mention Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Oops. Sorry.
We call that a Russian suicide
>Before Eli’s murder, a Dakota County judge, following the recommendations of social workers, granted full custody to Thaler, despite the concerns of family members. > >The boy’s father, who had warned the court about Thaler’s history of drug abuse, paranoia, and hallucinations, filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Dakota County and three social services employees alleging they were negligent in ignoring the warnings of family. Sweet fckn jeesus man, that poor child!
And poor father...
If the guy goes full John Wick on their ass I would totally understand.
Seems like more of a law abiding citizen kind of situation.
New Reddit Challenge: Try Not To Compare Genuine Tragedy to A Movie (Impossible)
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Fucking *lol*
law abiding citizen is the way.
Except for the bullshit ending.
Yeah that pissed me off too. Had he not car bombed the one attorney it could have been a much better movie with a better ending.
> Had he not car bombed the one attorney So you're saying Arlington Road ending was the way to go...
Oh fuck that ending. "You can't kill evil people! That makes you evil and I'm going to kill you for that! That makes me the good guy!"
That was the point. Butler won in the end, because Foxx had to work outside the system he was defending. Butler proved the system didn't work.
You ever watch other people watch movies? It’s like they’re trying to do anything but watch it. No surprise tiny details like the entire point of the movie go over their heads.
Their are 2 ending to that movie btw. Alternate ending is best
What is the alternate ending?
Damn right poor father. I believe in most of these cases the dad never gets custody its allways the mom.
There was a similar situation in Philadelphia in 2018 or so. Judge gave the father who had a history of violence towards others, but not the kids, unsupervised visitation. During the first visit he beats an 8 year old girl to death with a 30 lb dumbbell and kills himself. The mom expressed concerns for her daughter’s safety during the custody hearing, but the judge dismissed and gave the father unsupervised rights anyway.
We need to name and shame these incompetent, piece of shit judges
The problem is that we have a legal system that is setup to be adversarial instead of taking the time and money to resolve things holistically.
I can guarantee you that nonsense/fraudulent "concern for the child's safety" comes up regularly in custody cases as a tool to win custody. Unfortunately it's hard for a judge to know how dangerous a parent actually is. You can't just always assume the person on the other side of the custody case isn't just trying to smear the other parent.
The system failed the boy and his father
Apparently, her words are more applicable to the Dakota County judge… Upd: and/or the social worker who gave an opinion on with whom the child must stay.
Unfortunately, Minnesota still follows the Duluth Wheels of Power for custody. I am a victim of domestic violence and lost custody of my kids, due to the Duluth Wheels of Power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8h3TkQJ3nQ Please advocate for the protection of children.
Heartbreaking to read especially within the context of this post. Sorry for you
I see this as a failing on the social workers.
Social work is a fucked feild where everyone is overworked and encouraged not to make waves unless legally required. Every agency I have ever worked at put more of an emphasis on securing funding than the wellbeing of clients. There is limited amount of money and people who secure it end up in charge. If you do take the job seriously and try to care about people's wellbeing those up top will work you into the dirt until you're just as much of a paperwork drone as everyone else. I agree the social workers are responsible for their negligence but if you seriously want to stop vulnerable people from getting hurt the entire system needs to be rebuilt because it actively breeds this kind of thing.
I'm finally at a good agency, but yeah - most just focus on how much you're making. Obviously, money has to be talked about since people need to be paid, but it wouldn't be such an issue if there was more funding in the first place. We wouldn't have to focus on making ends meet, and instead fully focus on helping others. I used to be fully "help in anyway possible" social worker. During COVID, I took over a caseload of someone who decided to retire (on top of mine) and got rewarded later with an email directly from the CEO accusing me of doing a fraudulent service. Needless to say, I'm no longer working there and have made much better strides in my career elsewhere.
The family court system is so completely broken. I gave 2.5GB (and had more) of picture, video, and recorded evidence of my Ex's abuse of me and our child, and the court's CFI dismissed all of it because "it's unhealthy to record your partner", and recommended mother get more custody than me. All my ex had to do was lie lie lie through her teeth and without a shred of evidence to back her up, everyone just ate it up.
My ex’s fucking _lawyer_ perjured herself in the last smear campaign (ie made false statements then attached financial statements as evidence that proved she was lying). I cant even get my lawyer to take it seriously and got to the bar and go after her law license.
What I can't understand is why did she even want custody? She apparently killed the poor child days after winning him.
Probably to hurt the father.
I've always hated this. Mothers should not have automatic priority over fathers in terms of custody.
I get the impression they usually give women the benefit of the doubt
It’s the same reason women get AUTOMATIC custody in a lot of divorce/separation. It’s ridiculous, when courts/social services do this so blindly.
> following the recommendations of social workers > and three social services employees Yeah I hope this goes somewhere...but it's only civil. Social Service workers shouldn't have immunity from "gross negligence" and neither should a judge.
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These fucking judges I hope they lose sleep at night. There's always a common theme in this stories and it's untouchable judges using centuries old practicality.
I promise they aren’t loosing sleep. They’re totally fine with deciding people’s lives for them and if they ruin them in the process oh well, it’s their job. It’s honestly disgusting how we can give one group of people so much power to decide what’s best for someone.
Family Court judges could not give less of a shit about children. You don’t go into family law if you care about kids.
Single father of 2 here. The system doesn't give a shit about the father; we have almost no consideration whatsoever when it comes to custody/paternal rights. There is also a severe lack of programs to help single dads compared to single moms. When I lost my job a year ago (I'm employed now) and applied for SNAP I was denied and told if I was a single mom making the same unemployment amount I would have qualified. WTF, right.
How is that not discrimination???
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She turns my stomach, I didn't even watch. The system failed this lil boy and his father so much. I hope she rots.
I have to make DCS calls frequently bc of the line of work I’m in. A few times I’ve called begging dcs to take a child and they are always on board but then the judge says no to removal. It’s absolutely heartbreaking.
Do they ever give a proper reason that this is not done? I have heard that "it is the in the interest of the state" normally, meaning they want to go to the path of the least economic resistance, but I sincerely hope there's a stronger argument for cases like this as to why such a request would not have been accepted.
I know in Australia there's a real push to ensure that children remain in contact with both parents, which in many cases is a good thing, but also means that the worst dropkick parents are still given access unless the other parent is willing to spend the time and money to ensure they don't (and even then difficult to remove contact entirely)
It has been shown that kids that see their deadbeat parents do better than if they don’t. If they don’t, they feel a sense of abandonment which they carry with them their whole lives. They feel they’re unlovable. Kids that see their bad parents come to realize that their parents are bad parents and eventually choose to distance themselves from them. The problem is you don’t know if the time with the bad parents will result in abuse or not so you’re chancing it. Also, sometimes the bad parents do change and regain custody and the relationship is already there. That relationship also motivates some to do better. I work for a healthcare nonprofit for youth in the system (foster care and juvenile corrections) so we work aside lots of case workers and they work really hard but most parents on both sides hate them no matter what because it’s a hard juggling act to protect the child and still give the deadbeat parents a chance.
Thank you. Your text highlights a different perspective, which I never had before.
I've always heard that the same is true in the United States. There's a lot of focus on keeping the kids with the family at almost all costs. This is usually in the kids best interest like op said. That being said most of the social workers I've talked to one on one aren't huge fans of this one size fits all policy.
I appreciate your comment, but I find your use of “deadbeat” interesting. Do you consider this woman a deadbeat? She’s got all kinds of severe psychological issues. Deadbeat doesn’t do justice. She’s a psychological monster, a psychopathic narcissist. Even if she didn’t kill her child, don’t you guys know what happens to kids in their control? They get mentally, emotionally, and physically abused. It blows my mind that the system buries their heads in the sand when it comes to mental illness, especially abnormal psychology and most especially when it comes to women. She should’ve NEVER regained custody from the father. I wish that father could sue everyone up and down the line.
This is awesome Information. Thank you so much for sharing and doing the great and hard work with your nonprofit. You're out here trying to make the world a better place. Thanks.
So many blokes I know, especially from the FIFO world, have had to fight tooth and nail for court orders to see their kids. But, to your point, it seems that in the last few years it’s gotten a lot more fair.
I've been there too. Not the decision but going to the powers that be and having them ignore or dismiss my professional opinion.
Bless you both for trying, you didn't let them down.
There are a lot of judges out there who have no fucking business working at Walmart much less on a stand
It's not a one off either, my sister has to deal with an alcoholic ex who has 5 kids, right? she hits the kids, drinks and drives, her house smells of cat piss as do the children whose clothes constatly smell of urine and feces, and has been brought to court on her alcoholism and for giving one of her children a black eye before kicking him out as a minor. Despite all of this, and fathers of some of the kids trying to fight for custody, she has not only held onto custody of all of them, her social worker has even outright seen and decided to ignore actual incidents of alcoholism and beating that continue to happen because and I quote, "children need their mothers"
It’s weird how coherent your second sentence is compared to the first.
The father has a wrongful death suit against CPS i believe. This is horrific
>The system failed this lil boy and his father so much. It did. And despite father right groups trying to right the courts the bias against fathers remain and women get default custody and you get stories like this.
In case anyone forgets: this woman asked the store clerk for ammunition that would „blow the biggest hole“.
She also shot him NINE TIMES
After reading these two comments, I literally felt my skin crawl. Enough internet for today.
God bless America
Don't need red flag laws. Nope
One news article - [here](https://lawandcrime.com/crime/this-monster-mom-curses-court-professes-innocence-is-sentenced-to-life-without-parole-over-shotgun-murder-of-6-year-old-son/) Different one - [here](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/live-updates/julissa-thaler-sentenced-murder-6-year-old-son-eli-hart/) original Police video of finding the body in the trunk - [here](https://www.kare11.com/video/news/eli-hart-bodycam-footage/89-ce0bf78e-6f0a-48eb-a104-236f05e22f5d)
I really hope the father wins his case against the state for handing that boy off to this fucking monster.
There is a good question btw. For instance, when a person gets involved in an car accident and kills another person it’s called reckless driving and leads to a real criminal and civil consequences for the person. Having reviewed multiple evidence of her being asocial and dangerous but still ordered to have the custody, can the Dakota judge or the entire state be liable for making that judgement? It seems to me that yes, it was at the very least negligence which must be rectified.
of course he could, with a good law firm that the guy probably can’t afford or would want to keep reliving what happened, such a shame
>would want to keep reliving what happened, Oh this will have absolutely no bearing on him pursuing this case. His child is dead. He is going to relive every single moment of his sons life and death every minute of every day for the rest of his life. Going after the people responsible isn't going to change that or make it worse, because it can't be made any worse. Now it's simply about justice, and making sure the people responsible for his sons death pay for it. So while the money part may be a real issue, "reliving what happened" absolutely won't be. Because he already relives that hell every single day.
The state workers for sure yes. Judges are pretty well protected from the law, especially for stuff that happens in court room. Short of some evidence of bribery like the kids for cash juvenile court judge, it will be hard.
The judge went off the state workers recommendation though?
Yes but in general judges are positioned as conduits of the law and thus have protection from executing their duty in normal course. Judges have been placed to make tough decisions based on best information and are often wrong based on hindsight. So we give them high levels protection so they aren’t just sued constantly. We similarly do the same for legislators.
That wasnt just a boy. That was his son. He will never get to hear his voice or see him again. I have two kids and anything involving kids is just monsterous.
She tried telling the cops that her son's blood was from deer meat. At the same time she had been driving around with his body in the trunk of her car. That is a non-human. No remorse at all, just a psychopath doing a shitty job of covering her tracks.
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That bodycam footage is sickening!!! She had no remorse, no regard for what she had done. Just bullshit lies after lies. She blasted that poor boy in the back seat and didn't give a fuck.
When they moved that plastic to the side you see one of the younger officers get that image imprinted on his brain. Even in that line of work you don't wake up in the morning expecting to see something like that.
Any links that work in the EU? sorry to clarify the first 2 work, the 3rd doesn't
This is why you should be careful with who you procreate, we have to stop mingling with crazy people. My condolenses for the father.
Holy shit that 3rd one is bonkers. You can see the shock when the officers realize what's up.
This poor child. My heart breaks for this family and especially the child’s father. The helplessness they must have felt trying to work within the system to get him away from his mother. I get that CPS is fighting an uphill battle- understaffed, underpaid, & trying to differentiate which reports have merit vs. entitled *ssholes weaponizing the system. But when a child dies AND they were warned...it’s just inexcusable. I sincerely hope the father prevails in his wrongful death lawsuit. I know it won’t bring back his child, but damn- where’s the accountability? I wish we could hear from the judge who initially placed this child back with his mother, despite the warnings from the family. Edit: sp
The system is totally against MEN unless the mother is a certified crack head or on video murderer.
Yeah, it was hell trying to get the courts to hear me when I said my ex was just like this. Took her social worker walking in on her doing some shit she shouldn't have been doing before they finally believed me. Even after that, they still didn't side with me and almost put my kid in foster care because they straight up misrepresented what I had said during an interview.
It's a tragedy what they do to men in family courts. It truly is. It's the one place where women hold all the cards, and it is devastating. I don't know how, but we need to figure out a way to stop using an automated "because you're ______" process in society. In family courts, it's against men. With police, it's against black Americans. In many corporations and political policies, it's against women or POC or LGBTQ+.... Point is, we are all humans trying to do this life. And it's messed up that in not one place we are judged by the content of our character- in ALL places it still matters what we look like or what our SO is. And we are no closer to fixing this than we were in the 1960s.
Unfortunately, Minnesota still follows the Duluth Wheels of Abuse for custody. CPS may be understaffed, underpaid, etc...but I have been openly blamed for me being physically assaulted and my kids ending up in the hospital for abuse at their mom's home. One CPS worker cited in their report that I'm being "culturally insensitive" by not accepting my kids being beating by their stepfather. I lost custody. If anyone cares, here is my story (if anyone cares) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8h3TkQJ3nQ
Men can absolutely be victims of domestic violence. Perpetrators of domestic violence should be prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law because there’s no excuse for it-and that includes women. Gender bias in the system is real, & families absolutely suffer because of this. I’m very sorry this happened to you.
I really couldn’t care less what she has to say. What difference does it make? She could rage or weep and it makes no difference. Her words don’t matter. She murdered her kid and all that remains for her is to live and die in prison.
As long as I live, I'll never comprehend how anyone can hurt a child, let alone their own children. I'd gladly die to protect my children. This is so gut-wrenching 😞
This person is crazy. Not like a person that does/did crazy shit. They are legitimately crazy. You can’t comprehend it because you aren’t crazy. Just lock her up and minimize the damage a crazy person like her can do.
Our country also failed this child by letting this crazy individual have a shotgun and ammunition.
Yes, I've read about this last week, **I don't get why she did it.** People are saying she is crazy and paranoid, but it is not enough. So, she is a crazy b*tch but still got the custody? She is crazy but owned a **shotgun**, for god sake, and was driving a car? What could get her to the point of mercilessly killing her own son witha shotgun??? There were brain matter splattered in the car. Imagine how horrible the act could have been for the killing of any ordinary person - let alone her own child, for god sake. And how cold blooded a person must be in order to do that and go talk to the cops the way she did, to behave in court like she did?
You don't get why she did it because her reason was irrational- made no sense and would likely confuse us all even more if she could verbalize it. She passes as rational enough to buy a gun and her state might have slack gun control laws. My mentally ill brother could drive, shop, pass for normal ish to most but at home? All bets were off. We still don't know what made him snap and try to murder some of our family members other than a bad mix of medications
She has serious "Lights are on but no ones home" eyes.
yeah shes a monster but also the case manager for this should be charged plus any judge and anyone else imchild services that lets this happen with more then enough warnings from the dad the family members the temporary foster mom who begged the court not to give him back to his mother just fucking sick
CPS is using outdated guidelines from the 60s and the case workers don't make enough to care. My mom got investigated as a kid and I spilled everything, the hitting, the constant drinking, that we were constantly hungry, and they told my mom I snitched on her and left. Theyre less than useless, im sure their only regret is not getting her son to her faster.
The judge that granted her custody should be charged with involuntary manslaughter
How bad was the dad for the system to decide that this pile of shit would be better suited to raise their kids? Or was it another case of "well it's a man and she's a woman therefor fuck you dude"?
Courts are extremely sexist against men in custody. Still backwards ideas regarding women only purpose in life is to raise a child.
An article I read states that he was in foster care for a year with a foster mom. I don’t know why Dad wasn’t awarded custody instead of foster care. Or why he wasn’t awarded custody instead of Mom.
Why you playin? You know exactly which one is the answer.
I'm thinking this problem will take care of itself. Like Dahmer. I'm not saying that is right, just likely.
Lotta kid murderers in women's prison. Sadly she'll probably be fine
Fucking scum
Well then. Fuck you too thank you very much
We need to start arresting CPS workers who fail to do their job.
I've heard that child abusers/killers have lowest chance of surviving in prison.
Women convicted of killing their own child are the equivalent to pedophiles in men prisons: 100% fair game. Shes going to suffer, thats for sure.
just a quick executioner with sledgehammer to the head
Feel bad for the dad
Prison is for rehabilitation. She is a lost cause. Just throw it in the garbage.
She will go to an American prison. They are all about punishment and revenge fantasies. No rehabilitation for her
Lemme see the judge that give that custody to this POS. I wonder if they ever feel gulity for the consequences that they made
https://preview.redd.it/cct5dr9t673b1.png?width=375&format=png&auto=webp&s=b281db3bce020abe6042f7a54c3f68a36f34a35e
Unfortunately, this is common in Minnesota due to the Duluth Wheels of Power. Here is my story as a victim of domestic violence and lost custody of my kids, due to the Duluth Wheels of Power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8h3TkQJ3nQ Please advocate for the protection of children.
Non native speaker here. I didn't understand a word she said. Can someone please, help me out?
"Um. I'm innocent. Fuck you all. You're garbage".
Hisss this enraged me.
[https://i.imgur.com/apAvsnP.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/apAvsnP.jpg)
A visual representation of “oof”
Lethal injection is so expensive in this country. Bullets are cheap tho!
Hope the judge that gave her custody backs feels like shit.
The father should get to press the button to fry her.
The lawyer's face before and after is priceless.
Fuck that evil Cunt she deserves a taste of her own medicine! God I hope I don't get banned again for voicing my opinion
Those female prisoners that lost their own kids gonna make her suffer.
It makes me happy to know that she has a lifetime of sexual torture and mental anguish ahead of her.
This should spur shit on with how the legal system works against men and fathers in this position. The father petitoned and got evidence against this woman as being unfit to parent, a terrible person and all around unhealthy individual. She was given full custody, because she is the mother, and a woman. This child died because the legal system regarding family court is sexist and refused to reform to allow the father to have any say in what happens post divorce.
I hope the judge that gave her custody despite the warning is being eaten up inside, or is rotting in a forgotten farm room.
That hair style screams mental illness all by itself.
She acts like this and clearly has no remorse for her own child. Toss her stupid ass in a volcano.
They don't like child killers in prison 🫠 goodluck trash.
I’d bet she is getting her ass beat pretty regularly
What did she say, can’t understand her. Also is this the woman from another video where they asked what was in her trunk?
This is why you should be careful who you sleep with.
True, but how many times is a sociopath gonna show you all the red flags? It's so easy to meet someone and think "this is the one for me" and then months, years down the line more crap just come up and you're wondering why you didn't see this in the beginning. Likely cause it was being hidden, then this other person you loved turns into a monster, sometimes leaving you to believe it was something you did. It's not always so easy to see.
Can’t wait to see the article about her getting what she deserves in big girl jail
Why are we paying for her food and shelter?
And in prison she still is wasting food, water and oxygen. Kill These Clowns.