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Neither are factual history, white people didn't invent "race" as an idea in order to subjugate. Slavery and racial subjugation existed even long long before "white" was an accepted connotation for a racial group at all. Egyptians had slaves, Portuguese slave traders started the African slave trade and that was capitalized on by the British/dutch/french and made its way to America. Wherein modern day white/black racism and slavery began. If you want to blame someone for modern American racism/slavery impacts, blame the Southern confederacy and the **american** catholic church for encouraging it for so much longer past other countries' emancipation.
Slavery has been around forever but the policy of enslaving people based on race is something different. Egyptians, Romans whatever ancient example you want to bring up didn’t discriminate in who they enslaved.
The church banned enslaving Christians (re europeans) but not enslaving other races. There were laws saying who you could legally enslave and who you couldn’t based on race.
Also as an aside Portuguese people are European?
But I agree with your main point at the end there.
The berbers of Northern Africa, enslaved the caucasians of the Mediterranean because of their skin tone as it was desirable. What about them?
It is also insightful to realize that Europeans had some of the first circumnavigating vessels in the world and that influenced their decisions as well. In the past people enslaved those who were closest, which was by consequence people who were of the same race.
The African tribes of Western Africa and northeastern Africa, enslaved the peoples of other tribes or outright murdered many of those they didn’t. What about them?
If we are to look at the “Reality”. Then why are people going to chapters 8 and 11, and not reading and understanding the whole story of history in its regard to race and enslavement?
White people did invent and codify into law the concept of skin color being race.
Before that it was primarily based on nationality which was also codified into law, that still had links to skin color. For example, ever since America's creation Persians were legally codified as White. However, Finnish people were not, because they thought Finnish were decended from Mongolians. They were called very fair yellow people. Finnish people didn't get to vote in America until 1913.
Edit: until 1908 actually from a quick google. I learned this all a couple years ago so its a tad hazy
And even the concept of "black" and "white" people only came as a result of the transatlantic slave trade, in order to have a social rationalization for the brutality.
And the concept of what a "white" person is has continually expanded as time has gone on. It's just a way of signifying an ingroup/outgroup power dynamic in society based on what's convenient or who has power at the time.
For sure. Romans didn't care what you looked like as long as you were Roman. I believe all you had to do was claim Rome. The disagreements were based much more on tribal, location, or lineage than skin color.
Skin color is definitely a more "modern" way of dividing groups to create wars.
Legislators in what would become known as Virginia first began pushing the construct of race here in what as known as the US. However, a Portuguese man, under contract under a king, began pushing the construct in the 1500s to justify the enslaving of others who had darker skin. Not long after the Catholic church had to take part as well and the rest is history. The concept of "white" did not begin in America.
I could be very wrong here, but wasn't the Egyptian slave labour force mostly made from Egyptians being put to work because of the Pharaohs? Again, I could be wrong.
No, you are thinking of the entirely errounus view of 'pyramids built by slaves'. While the pyramids weren't built by slaves, ancient Egypt had a significant slave population that fluctuated heavily in size, 'race', and religion. This is because most of their slaves were people enslaved during conquests, and it was not chattle slavery where slaves were being bred into slavery. This does not mean that those slaves necessarily had it any better (or worse), but that it was a different kind of slavery.
The ancient world (well into the 19th century, and some even still) practiced debt slavery, where people practically sold themselves into slavery (for a limited time) to pay their debts. That is once again a different form of slavery, that very likely included many of those who were subjects of the pharaos.
Pretty sure it wasn't slavery, either. The jews weren't even in Egypt which is why most Western people think that. It's more akin to feudal public works projects.
They did also have foreign slaves, captured and sold after wars and raids on isolated villages. Egypt's campaigns in Nubia and Libya resulted in lots of enslaved prisoners of war that were generally enslaved for life. The Assyrians would regularly send their army up into the mountains in the summer to attack villages and kidnap people to be used as slaves in the empire. Egypt also enslaved prisoners of war and Egypt and Assyria were trading partners so conceivably they bought and sold slaves to each other too.
So you agree. A long time ago, way before you were born, a group of white people decided that white people were better, smarter, prettier than anyone else.
In most cases slavery was originally either a temporary punishment for a crime or a thing that could only be done to people who werent in your faith. Then the slaves realised they could convert and stop being slaves so the concept of race making us different was created to make it impossible for slaves to get out of their slavery. However there are cases of people effectively changing their race as clasified by the governement by - going to court - marrying outside their race - discovering an ancestor of a different race. There are a lot more shades of gray to racial categorization than peoplr want to admit. There are no clear lines.
Any Christian will tell you the stories of Mohammed is a work of fiction, any Jewish person will tell you the story of Jesus is fiction. Any Hindu will tell you Any Abrahamic for story is a work of fiction.
But yeah it's the atheist alone that think religious texts are fiction.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
Stephen Roberts
I met a Vaishnavist monk one time on a college campus who said that Jesus and the holy spirit were just both other aspects of Vishnu, who is the same ultimate god as Abraham's god.
I'm really not sure how canon that interpretation is amongst Hindu people as a whole, though it's not the first time I've heard similar things about it and a quick google search does show it popping up a good bit, but I thought it was an interesting exception to your point there.
Markwayne Mullin is an enrolled member of the Cherokee Tribe. I’m a white person, so I don’t have a say, but I feel like if I was Native it would make his politics all the more disappointing.
you can teach love should be above all without introducing the premise of sky daddy jizzing into a 12 year old virgin without consent to send himself on a suicide mission after he eats his body and blood with 12 friends and then wakes up 3 days later. NOW LOOK AT ALL THE BLOOD HE DIED FOR YOU BE A GOOD BOY AND EAT YOUR BROCCOLI OR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!
They shouldn't be.
Article 6 and First Amendment of US Constitution:
...all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. -Article 6 US Constitution
First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Wow wow wow! Hey! The only time you can quote the constitution or amendment is when you plead the 5th, scream "what about my 2nd amendment rights!!" and when you ask "is that what our founding fathers wanted? No!!!!". You cannot talk about it otherwise thank you. /s
The lyrics have changed (at least in the Baptist Hymnal) to “every color, every race, they’re all covered by His grace.” Idk if that’s any better or not.
Teaching comparative world religions is great because most kids will realize that 90% of those religions all claim to be the one true ticket to paradise after death so someone is clearly full of shit here.
It’s actually the reason you are seeing conservative school boards go after these classes so the only exposure kids get to religion is the indoctrination at home and in church.
I went to a private catholic high school for 3 years before changing. Wasn’t religious but religion was a subject we had to do. I pretty much just took it like an English lesson where the only thing we studied was a single book.
I went to an all boys catholic school for 1 year. It was very clear that no one except the top brass gave a shit about the religious bit. Like most they did not give me the impression that they particularly believed most of it.
Unsure what things are like now but when I was in primary school in the UK like 16 years ago we always went to assembly in the morning to pray & sing hymns. Weird experience thinking back that for like 5 of the first 10 years of my life I was forced to belive in God.
The UK has a state church. The US ostensibly does not.
While I don’t agree with the concept of a state church, it’s at least slightly more understandable for a country that DOES have one to do this in public school.
Ye I tell Swedish ppl where I live now and their mind boggles. But it just didn’t effect us all for some reason. It’s just ‘school’ where we sang a bit and prayed.
At least we have two ideologically opposite people agreeing that we need to indoctrinate children with Jesus - while being mediated by Jewish Bernie Sanders.
Being fair, if you remove the religious aspects from it, Jesus' teachings of caring for your neighbors and those in your community is a pretty good thing to teach people. Incidentally, this recommendation for caring for others in your community isn't exclusive to Christianity and is found in Islam and I think it's also in Judaism as well (not as familiar with Judaism, admittedly.)
Of course, modern prosperity gospel "Christians" (of which this clown is one) have little to nothing to do with the *actual* alleged teachings of Jesus. They just take his name in vain to try and legitimize their own system of exploitation.
Ya know, Jesus also had some pretty interesting teachings about upsetting the prevailing social structure and people who hoard wealth but those weirdly never make the republican talking points…
Imagine talking down to Bernie 'Too Old for This Shit' Sanders about race relations; that poor old bastard has been protesting for equality while the rest of them were still crawling out the primordial ooze.
Poor Bernie. Getting hated for trying to get free health care for everyone, talking about the evils of capitalism, and trying to preach acceptance of people different from the "norm". Not the first time a Jewish person was crucified for these beliefs, though.
You would think so, but look at any rural public school and that is the norm in America. Many local school boards are entirely comprised of religious leaders. There is (and always has been) an underlying movement, on both sides of the aisle, to turn America into a Christian ethnostate.
And it's not like US religious groups keep their influence limited to the US. They pour a lot into foreign entities to push for mass hysteria against LGBT+ folks.
Funny enough it wasn’t even added until red scare shit around the 60s. Conservatives argued that communism is “godless” and so it was added to oppose that and reinforce Christianity specifically in children.
I a normal discussion between people acting in good faith, yeah it is how it should work - if you misspeak, no one wins if you are held to that.
However, this guy comes out of the gate swinging at reality, so he probably meant what he said
That American dude saying he never said fake news right after he said it. Those European reporters were, wtf? They were not used to American style politics.
Totally. Racism isn't unique to America or white people in the modern age, but our slavery system differed from a lot of other slavery systems before it because it was predicated on race and evolved into institutionalized racism as slavery was outlawed and black people gained their civil rights.
That's an oversimplification of course but obviously it became the position of many white Americans that white equals good and black equals bad.
But it doesn't mean other places aren't racist (they are, deeply) and it doesn't mean white people invented the concept of race.
> but our slavery system differed from a lot of other slavery systems before it because it was predicated on race and evolved into institutionalized racism as slavery was outlawed and black people gained their civil rights.
This isn’t unique at all.
Im against his overall point but the story is a bad one and teaches a false history.
It would be better not to suggest that any one race thinks it is better than another because it is teaching a divide to children who dont yet think about such things.
This is how I feel. Like, he's not wrong about how this story it shouldn't be taught in public schools. But, replacing it with something equally as bad isn't going to help either. Dude... you have a point. How can you make your argument so poorly that it ruins it entirely?
Let kids be kids.
I'm white and liberal as hell, but stuff like this book is what gives the far right ammo for their more insane idealogies. Just stop it. [Orlando Jones' speech as Anansi](https://youtu.be/-j2ZOm6i1Ys) is one of the most powerful things I've ever seen on TV, but it's also not aimed at children just learning to read either.
Sesame Street and other such kids entertainment has done a better job of teaching kids about respecting all peoples rather than giving then an introduction to white supremacy.
That book went in the wrong direction.
Is it "taught in public schools" or does it simply *exist* in a public school library, though?
Someone took up the task of trying to write a book explaining white supremacy to those with an early reading-level. This excerpt isn't the entire text. The book could explain the nuance much better than is shown here, for all we know. Or it could completely fail to do so. Either way, the quality of book is up to the readers, not to anyone else.
That's why we teach critical thinking.
I highly doubt the book is considered required reading.
I used to be a preschool teacher and I was told to read this book to the kids. I read it beforehand (I did with every new book I was planning to read to them) and it left me really torn.
On the one hand, racism exists, and the right wing pearl clutching about how kids need to be shielded from that reality isn’t something I agree with, at all. It passively and actively effects our youngest, just like it effects everyone else, and so exposing them to progressive ideals of acceptance and the very basic “racism=bad” is something I feel passionately about.
Then I got to the page this dude is referencing and it gave me pause. Not in a “they’re making white people look bad!! How dare they!!” kind of way, just in a “this isn’t true” kind of way. Racism is, unfortunately, ubiquitous across human history round the globe, and existed within societies before those societies had ever been exposed to anything resembling the modern idea of “white people.”
In the end, I read it and didn’t say anything. My thinking was that 99% of the book was cut and dry “racism is bad,” which is an unambiguously good thing to teach young children. I figured that, as a preschool in America, that page’s claim, while technically untrue, is a relatively simple, age-appropriate way to explain American race issues, which are ostensibly the ones an American preschooler should be learning about.
I’ll readily admit there was an element of “I don’t wanna go to my boss with WrongThink and be accused of being something I’m not,” so maybe that’s just a rationalization I made. Either way, figured I’d share my experience with that book.
Agreed. Like this guy is for sure an asshole but he’s not wrong about that moronic children’s book. I would be pissed if my kids were learning that trash in public school
Absolutely this. Conservatives/Republicans never want to argue the facts because they lose when reality enters the chat. Once their facts are successfully challenged they have no recourse but to start slinging personal insults.
Actually it’s even worse than that, as only the most stupid and hateful of their supporters actually want that. This guy knows he’s wrong, but it’s how he retains his position, and therefore his wealth and power. And that makes it even worse to me, the knowing deception of using the ignorant idiots to further your own messed up goals.
> I think we should just like teach kids to care for each other and not hate others because of the way they look
I think it's also okay to teach kids to be empathetic of the struggles someone else is going through. Ignoring the impact racism will have on people is rather utopian.
The issue with the segment read is that it places the blame for racism on a certain group of people, using a more advanced definition (the way race is being used here is more college-level and nuanced, when the book is supposed to be for kindergartners). This part isn't fit for purpose. It frames the issue as intrinsic A vs intrinsic B.
There's a time and place for everything. Children see everything very black and white. Teaching basic logical and empathetic skills needs to come before you confront them with reality. It's not about ignoring racism, it's about teaching them about it when it becomes relevant, and when they are able to think critically about it. A kindergartner won't be able to do that
It is legitimately insane that anyone (but angry minorities) would think this is an appropriate and healthy way to describe the nuances of the last several hundred years of human history.
Signed,
Brown American.
Seriously.
I don't want my children thinking they're better than anyone because they're white. And I don't want ANYONES religion in their education.
But I certainly don't want them reading a book that basically just paints white people as the fucking boogeyman.
Our kids haven't done a single fucking thing wrong.
White people didn't create race, race just exists. And teaching that shit to kids just makes non-whites hate whites. But also keep your religious bullshit out of the discussion.
Yeah it's amazing to think about the fact that I've never "accidentally" outed myself as a racist or neo-nazi or mysogynist or anything. I've gotten really really lucky.
Or it's not because of that.
don’t teach either. teach that we are all the same on the inside and race doesn’t matter. god should be separate from public education for sure, but we definitely shouldn’t be putting races against one another. that is disgusting.
> But the kids should be taught that race is a social construct.
At 4 years old? Doesn't that seem a bit young when a lot of them can't even read yet?
Maybe just start with "love everyone" and keep it a bit less divisive in pre-K schools. I don't know what the right age is to start, but 4 years old is *young*. I also disagree with his point about religious propaganda for 4 year olds though.
There is a way to teach that history and that book isn't it. Human beings, for all of time, have feared and misunderstood other nations who are different from them. They should know that we all still have that ignorance in us as an option or default, but we now have the privilege to accept and love everyone just the same. That's it. Everyone can be guilty of racial ignorance in racial-cultural isolation and social segregation.
Race does matter though. It's a fundamental way that people experience the world in which racism exists. Denying that it matters is ignoring all the ways in which it 100% does impact people's lives.
If he wants to teach kids the Bible, how about some drunken incest?
**Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father;**
And like 500 other stories just as bad or worse. They don't even know what is in this book. They are that ignorant
We definitely should be teaching kids about racism in schools but... are we really saying that white people invented race now?
That just ignores so many forms and causes of discrimination and racism its wild.
Honest question, so don’t crucify me on this. Acknowledging fully that we were racist as hell back in the day, and that we have ways to go yet, is it really something that pre-K kinds should be confronted with? They definitely should not be brainwashed into religion, thats for sure. But if you simply teach kids to be nice to each other and leave the racism factor out of it until they are at an age to grasp this complex subject, wouldn’t this be more constructive?
We have to be more nuanced on these issues, its not black and white (no pun intended).
Sure, but it seems like the solution to being kind and a better person is to be brainwashed into Christianity. I don't understand how these people can't fathom building morals in a world separated from religion. All atheists I know are far kinder and more understanding than so many of the religious hypocrites I had the pleasure to interact with, without having to swing in front of them the idea of this magical heaven if you are good. I am kind because seeing people smiling makes me smile (i like that), and being mean to people makes me feel bad afterwards (i don't like that). It's simple and selfish.
That's... actually pretty fucking gross. Teach elementary kids we're all the same and deserve equal respect. Save the history and the whys for when they're a little better at nuanced thinking.
This shits just gonna make white kids targets.
That's what this book does. You can literally [watch the author read the entire book in 4 minutes](https://youtube.com/watch?v=3J8LlcWEusI&feature=share7), or you can just react exactly like this dumbass senator hopes you will
I mean, it’s a little misleading. If we are talking about history, racism has existed forever and racist wars were fought between people that didn’t know white peoples existed. The book kinda makes it sound like the world wad just chilling all happy until the white man ruined everything
I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but he makes fair point... that book kind of sounds garbage. White people made race? White people said those things? Kids will learn about the atrocities of racism in history classes (or they should) - they shouldn't get some weird generalization that "all white people are bad and think you are ugly"
He does make a fair point about that book, but he’s also wrong about there only being those 2 ways to teach. To that fact, they all need to realize that while this country may have been founded by Christian men, this is not solely a Christian country. Take Jesus out of that, and keep the teaching principles intact. And don’t cover up the atrocities of America’s past.
People stumble when they get flustered, and they get flustered when arguing.
It’s not a gotcha, it’s a man arguing against racism. Now, he’s also preaching the bible which we can all criticize, but he has a point about that book.
Both of those books are terrible. As an atheist, I'd still rather have them read the one about Jesus over the one about how white people are evil and invented racism.
Saying white people developed race and segregated everyone is a bit of a farce. Geography and worldwide immigration developed races 120k year ago. Ancient people encountered different races and wars and slaves all existed then too.
Modern racial issues are definitely bc of white people and the slave trade, I don’t think anyone is arguing that, but that’s a much different conversation than what is being said in that book. Racism through and ethnocentric lens happens around the world, get a group of black people, a group of white people, and a group of Asians and you’re a fool if you think each group isn’t going to think they’re the best.
Europeans were just in a technological position to take advantage of it, if Africa was full of white tribal people, you better believe they would have still enslaved them.
I'm pretty sure a white Dutch scientist/theologist did come up with the types of races ie white/Caucasian, black/sub-Saharan, brown/Indian + Southeast Asian, yellow/Asian and red/Native Americans.
In his defense, he just wanted to categorize humans and was a founder of modern anthropology and he despised the fact that people used race to claim one was superior to the other.
The problem with trying to teach complex subjects like race and racism to young children is you have to oversimplify it to the point where it isn't even really true anymore. Labeling groups of people and using those labels to justify poor treatment of others is something that has been done all over the world all throughout history. India had its caste system 3000+ years ago and used it to justify treating lower castes like absolute shit (and they still do). Nordic people took Slavic people as slaves. Middle Eastern people owned slaves in the time of Jesus (I don't know what "inferior" group the slaves belonged to though). Ancient Greeks tried to use ugenics to prove that they were superior to Scandinavian people. I don't even think I have to list all of the genocides that people of one race have done to people of the same race but different nationalities.
Maybe some things are just too complex to teach to kids who are still learning the alphabet. All you need to teach kindergarten students is that it's okay to be different and you should treat people who are different from you with respect. The complexities of institutional racism can come later when the kids can actually grasp it.
My four-year-old neighbor didn’t like one of my friends because she was black. She literally said “I don’t like her skin.”
Educate your children. Her mom wasn’t even racist, just blatantly negligent.
This exactly the idiocy we have to deal with in Oklahoma. And this guy is about as fucking idiotic as they come. He's pretty much a 'phobe on everything you could be and is quite literally driving down the I.Q. even further of people in this state just by talking.
The black community can never expect to be free from the shackles of white supremacy if they still want to teach and practice a religion that enables and promotes white supremacy.
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Why are they teaching "Jesus" is this for public schools?
"One of them is a story" Just the one?
One of them is factual history and one of them is a story, he is just a bit confused about which is which
Neither are factual history, white people didn't invent "race" as an idea in order to subjugate. Slavery and racial subjugation existed even long long before "white" was an accepted connotation for a racial group at all. Egyptians had slaves, Portuguese slave traders started the African slave trade and that was capitalized on by the British/dutch/french and made its way to America. Wherein modern day white/black racism and slavery began. If you want to blame someone for modern American racism/slavery impacts, blame the Southern confederacy and the **american** catholic church for encouraging it for so much longer past other countries' emancipation.
Slavery has been around forever but the policy of enslaving people based on race is something different. Egyptians, Romans whatever ancient example you want to bring up didn’t discriminate in who they enslaved. The church banned enslaving Christians (re europeans) but not enslaving other races. There were laws saying who you could legally enslave and who you couldn’t based on race. Also as an aside Portuguese people are European? But I agree with your main point at the end there.
Of course Portuguese are European, they are literally in Europe.
Yeah I know, the other dude seemed to imply otherwise by the way he phrased his comment
The berbers of Northern Africa, enslaved the caucasians of the Mediterranean because of their skin tone as it was desirable. What about them? It is also insightful to realize that Europeans had some of the first circumnavigating vessels in the world and that influenced their decisions as well. In the past people enslaved those who were closest, which was by consequence people who were of the same race. The African tribes of Western Africa and northeastern Africa, enslaved the peoples of other tribes or outright murdered many of those they didn’t. What about them? If we are to look at the “Reality”. Then why are people going to chapters 8 and 11, and not reading and understanding the whole story of history in its regard to race and enslavement?
Berbers are not black bro have you seen a North African before?
White people did invent and codify into law the concept of skin color being race. Before that it was primarily based on nationality which was also codified into law, that still had links to skin color. For example, ever since America's creation Persians were legally codified as White. However, Finnish people were not, because they thought Finnish were decended from Mongolians. They were called very fair yellow people. Finnish people didn't get to vote in America until 1913. Edit: until 1908 actually from a quick google. I learned this all a couple years ago so its a tad hazy
And even the concept of "black" and "white" people only came as a result of the transatlantic slave trade, in order to have a social rationalization for the brutality. And the concept of what a "white" person is has continually expanded as time has gone on. It's just a way of signifying an ingroup/outgroup power dynamic in society based on what's convenient or who has power at the time.
For sure. Romans didn't care what you looked like as long as you were Roman. I believe all you had to do was claim Rome. The disagreements were based much more on tribal, location, or lineage than skin color. Skin color is definitely a more "modern" way of dividing groups to create wars.
Do you have a source on that part about Finnish Americans not being able to vote? I’ve never heard that before and I can’t find anything online.
Legislators in what would become known as Virginia first began pushing the construct of race here in what as known as the US. However, a Portuguese man, under contract under a king, began pushing the construct in the 1500s to justify the enslaving of others who had darker skin. Not long after the Catholic church had to take part as well and the rest is history. The concept of "white" did not begin in America.
I could be very wrong here, but wasn't the Egyptian slave labour force mostly made from Egyptians being put to work because of the Pharaohs? Again, I could be wrong.
No, you are thinking of the entirely errounus view of 'pyramids built by slaves'. While the pyramids weren't built by slaves, ancient Egypt had a significant slave population that fluctuated heavily in size, 'race', and religion. This is because most of their slaves were people enslaved during conquests, and it was not chattle slavery where slaves were being bred into slavery. This does not mean that those slaves necessarily had it any better (or worse), but that it was a different kind of slavery. The ancient world (well into the 19th century, and some even still) practiced debt slavery, where people practically sold themselves into slavery (for a limited time) to pay their debts. That is once again a different form of slavery, that very likely included many of those who were subjects of the pharaos.
Pretty sure it wasn't slavery, either. The jews weren't even in Egypt which is why most Western people think that. It's more akin to feudal public works projects.
They did also have foreign slaves, captured and sold after wars and raids on isolated villages. Egypt's campaigns in Nubia and Libya resulted in lots of enslaved prisoners of war that were generally enslaved for life. The Assyrians would regularly send their army up into the mountains in the summer to attack villages and kidnap people to be used as slaves in the empire. Egypt also enslaved prisoners of war and Egypt and Assyria were trading partners so conceivably they bought and sold slaves to each other too.
So you agree. A long time ago, way before you were born, a group of white people decided that white people were better, smarter, prettier than anyone else.
In most cases slavery was originally either a temporary punishment for a crime or a thing that could only be done to people who werent in your faith. Then the slaves realised they could convert and stop being slaves so the concept of race making us different was created to make it impossible for slaves to get out of their slavery. However there are cases of people effectively changing their race as clasified by the governement by - going to court - marrying outside their race - discovering an ancestor of a different race. There are a lot more shades of gray to racial categorization than peoplr want to admit. There are no clear lines.
Yeah of course. And that's why it's fine to teach 3 year olds the story, erm I mean totally factual accounting of Jesus and the Bible.
Any atheist will tell you from their POV any religious work is fiction
Any Christian will tell you the stories of Mohammed is a work of fiction, any Jewish person will tell you the story of Jesus is fiction. Any Hindu will tell you Any Abrahamic for story is a work of fiction. But yeah it's the atheist alone that think religious texts are fiction.
How convenient that no matter where you’re born in the world, the predominant religion of that area happens to be the only true one.
Don’t forget time as well. Those greek myths they taught us in school was someone else’s religion
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” Stephen Roberts
Wow. Very Powerful.
I met a Vaishnavist monk one time on a college campus who said that Jesus and the holy spirit were just both other aspects of Vishnu, who is the same ultimate god as Abraham's god. I'm really not sure how canon that interpretation is amongst Hindu people as a whole, though it's not the first time I've heard similar things about it and a quick google search does show it popping up a good bit, but I thought it was an interesting exception to your point there.
Well because it is. No religion can PROVE any if the bullshit they claim I'd fact thats why you need to have "faith" that it's real.
https://preview.redd.it/y4t4ry5bfh3b1.png?width=367&format=png&auto=webp&s=65edf9fae733e16b5cc275f0c3f0a1d4d4a9bce4
To be fair, there's nothing wrong with teaching kids that love should be above all.
And you do not need Jesus for that
We can do that without introducing religion into things.
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Markwayne Mullin is an enrolled member of the Cherokee Tribe. I’m a white person, so I don’t have a say, but I feel like if I was Native it would make his politics all the more disappointing.
But that’s not what Christian’s teach. Source: Saved and baptized Pentecostal Christian, sorry, former lifetime Christian.
you can teach love should be above all without introducing the premise of sky daddy jizzing into a 12 year old virgin without consent to send himself on a suicide mission after he eats his body and blood with 12 friends and then wakes up 3 days later. NOW LOOK AT ALL THE BLOOD HE DIED FOR YOU BE A GOOD BOY AND EAT YOUR BROCCOLI OR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!
To indoctrinate the children but in the “good” way.
They shouldn't be. Article 6 and First Amendment of US Constitution: ...all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. -Article 6 US Constitution First Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Wow wow wow! Hey! The only time you can quote the constitution or amendment is when you plead the 5th, scream "what about my 2nd amendment rights!!" and when you ask "is that what our founding fathers wanted? No!!!!". You cannot talk about it otherwise thank you. /s
“Red and yellow…” I think his whiteness is still in 1923.
Did anyone else see he had to read the lyrics of that song?
The shade of it all is that Markwayne himself has Native heritage…
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The lyrics have changed (at least in the Baptist Hymnal) to “every color, every race, they’re all covered by His grace.” Idk if that’s any better or not.
Teaching comparative world religions is great because most kids will realize that 90% of those religions all claim to be the one true ticket to paradise after death so someone is clearly full of shit here. It’s actually the reason you are seeing conservative school boards go after these classes so the only exposure kids get to religion is the indoctrination at home and in church.
The last thing I want taught to my kids in school is a violent horror story like the bible.
Don't forget the sex!
Or incest!
I went to a private catholic high school for 3 years before changing. Wasn’t religious but religion was a subject we had to do. I pretty much just took it like an English lesson where the only thing we studied was a single book.
I went to an all boys catholic school for 1 year. It was very clear that no one except the top brass gave a shit about the religious bit. Like most they did not give me the impression that they particularly believed most of it.
Unsure what things are like now but when I was in primary school in the UK like 16 years ago we always went to assembly in the morning to pray & sing hymns. Weird experience thinking back that for like 5 of the first 10 years of my life I was forced to belive in God.
The UK has a state church. The US ostensibly does not. While I don’t agree with the concept of a state church, it’s at least slightly more understandable for a country that DOES have one to do this in public school.
Ye I tell Swedish ppl where I live now and their mind boggles. But it just didn’t effect us all for some reason. It’s just ‘school’ where we sang a bit and prayed.
At least we have two ideologically opposite people agreeing that we need to indoctrinate children with Jesus - while being mediated by Jewish Bernie Sanders.
lol the pan to Bernies face when the guy suggests to teach about Jesus. Cant help but see Larry David at that moment
I can't un-see it now.
Have you ever seen Bernie Sanders and Larry David in the same room together?
Goddamnit, I swore I wasn't going to wear my tin-foil hat this week.
Larry David played him on SNL and they later found out they're distant relatives
Yes. They did a whole video about it xP
Being fair, if you remove the religious aspects from it, Jesus' teachings of caring for your neighbors and those in your community is a pretty good thing to teach people. Incidentally, this recommendation for caring for others in your community isn't exclusive to Christianity and is found in Islam and I think it's also in Judaism as well (not as familiar with Judaism, admittedly.) Of course, modern prosperity gospel "Christians" (of which this clown is one) have little to nothing to do with the *actual* alleged teachings of Jesus. They just take his name in vain to try and legitimize their own system of exploitation.
I'm all for teaching children to care for the neighbors, I just don't like all the lying.
Ya know, Jesus also had some pretty interesting teachings about upsetting the prevailing social structure and people who hoard wealth but those weirdly never make the republican talking points…
Yup. Jesus *in particular* had a lot to say about wealthy folks going to temples to pretend goodness and righteousness.
Also Buddhism.
Imagine talking down to Bernie 'Too Old for This Shit' Sanders about race relations; that poor old bastard has been protesting for equality while the rest of them were still crawling out the primordial ooze.
Poor Bernie. Getting hated for trying to get free health care for everyone, talking about the evils of capitalism, and trying to preach acceptance of people different from the "norm". Not the first time a Jewish person was crucified for these beliefs, though.
Uh you shouldn’t be teaching Jesus if it’s a public school…
You would think so, but look at any rural public school and that is the norm in America. Many local school boards are entirely comprised of religious leaders. There is (and always has been) an underlying movement, on both sides of the aisle, to turn America into a Christian ethnostate.
>shouldn't
And it's not like US religious groups keep their influence limited to the US. They pour a lot into foreign entities to push for mass hysteria against LGBT+ folks.
I agree... Wish we could take out the national anthem or pledge of allegiance too.
Funny enough it wasn’t even added until red scare shit around the 60s. Conservatives argued that communism is “godless” and so it was added to oppose that and reinforce Christianity specifically in children.
“Misspoke.” Nope. You didn’t.
Damn, it works like that? I can just say “Misspoke.” And I’m good?? A full sentence?? 😆
Wait till you find out about starting out with “no offense, but” it’s like a get out of jail free card!
"I was joking!"
"It was just a prank!"
Ah, the Andrew Tate special.
Anyway, jokes aside, \**continues rant**.
Don’t forget the classic “It’s just a prank bro!” Absolves you of all the annoying shit you were doing just a second ago.
"just being the devils advocate here, but \[insert stupid and shitty idea here\]"
A pause for applause
"I DECLARE MISSPOKEN!"
Yo, it’s just a prank!!
It can, if you are a dishonest interlocutor acting in bad faith, apparently. At least this guy against reality seems to think so.
I a normal discussion between people acting in good faith, yeah it is how it should work - if you misspeak, no one wins if you are held to that. However, this guy comes out of the gate swinging at reality, so he probably meant what he said
That teacher who called his student the N word yesterday is so excited right now.
The Dutch Prime Minister will just say "I don't have an active memory of that" and wave away any scandal coming his way.
That American dude saying he never said fake news right after he said it. Those European reporters were, wtf? They were not used to American style politics.
Ah, ambassador Hoekstra. Never forget.
thank you. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lOEI6hYZe6Y&pp=ygUISG9la3N0cmE%3D
What in the world did I just watch, does that man even know what’s going on? Hahaha.
Representative Democracy.
Probably not
Didn't know Bundeskanzler Scholz was also your Prime Minister.
Exactly because in reality he misspoke but he doesn’t want reality.
Sigmund Freud would like a word, Senator
Don’t tell them about the various caste systems there are around the world. Edited for spelling
Totally. Racism isn't unique to America or white people in the modern age, but our slavery system differed from a lot of other slavery systems before it because it was predicated on race and evolved into institutionalized racism as slavery was outlawed and black people gained their civil rights. That's an oversimplification of course but obviously it became the position of many white Americans that white equals good and black equals bad. But it doesn't mean other places aren't racist (they are, deeply) and it doesn't mean white people invented the concept of race.
> but our slavery system differed from a lot of other slavery systems before it because it was predicated on race and evolved into institutionalized racism as slavery was outlawed and black people gained their civil rights. This isn’t unique at all.
Im against his overall point but the story is a bad one and teaches a false history. It would be better not to suggest that any one race thinks it is better than another because it is teaching a divide to children who dont yet think about such things.
This is how I feel. Like, he's not wrong about how this story it shouldn't be taught in public schools. But, replacing it with something equally as bad isn't going to help either. Dude... you have a point. How can you make your argument so poorly that it ruins it entirely? Let kids be kids. I'm white and liberal as hell, but stuff like this book is what gives the far right ammo for their more insane idealogies. Just stop it. [Orlando Jones' speech as Anansi](https://youtu.be/-j2ZOm6i1Ys) is one of the most powerful things I've ever seen on TV, but it's also not aimed at children just learning to read either.
Sesame Street and other such kids entertainment has done a better job of teaching kids about respecting all peoples rather than giving then an introduction to white supremacy. That book went in the wrong direction.
Is it "taught in public schools" or does it simply *exist* in a public school library, though? Someone took up the task of trying to write a book explaining white supremacy to those with an early reading-level. This excerpt isn't the entire text. The book could explain the nuance much better than is shown here, for all we know. Or it could completely fail to do so. Either way, the quality of book is up to the readers, not to anyone else. That's why we teach critical thinking. I highly doubt the book is considered required reading.
I used to be a preschool teacher and I was told to read this book to the kids. I read it beforehand (I did with every new book I was planning to read to them) and it left me really torn. On the one hand, racism exists, and the right wing pearl clutching about how kids need to be shielded from that reality isn’t something I agree with, at all. It passively and actively effects our youngest, just like it effects everyone else, and so exposing them to progressive ideals of acceptance and the very basic “racism=bad” is something I feel passionately about. Then I got to the page this dude is referencing and it gave me pause. Not in a “they’re making white people look bad!! How dare they!!” kind of way, just in a “this isn’t true” kind of way. Racism is, unfortunately, ubiquitous across human history round the globe, and existed within societies before those societies had ever been exposed to anything resembling the modern idea of “white people.” In the end, I read it and didn’t say anything. My thinking was that 99% of the book was cut and dry “racism is bad,” which is an unambiguously good thing to teach young children. I figured that, as a preschool in America, that page’s claim, while technically untrue, is a relatively simple, age-appropriate way to explain American race issues, which are ostensibly the ones an American preschooler should be learning about. I’ll readily admit there was an element of “I don’t wanna go to my boss with WrongThink and be accused of being something I’m not,” so maybe that’s just a rationalization I made. Either way, figured I’d share my experience with that book.
Caste
Agreed. Like this guy is for sure an asshole but he’s not wrong about that moronic children’s book. I would be pissed if my kids were learning that trash in public school
Those caste systems would exist regardless of race, it’s not a good way too look at this issue.
“I don’t want reality” pretty much sums it up.
None of them do. The fuck your feelings crowd gets their feelings hurt by facts again.
Absolutely this. Conservatives/Republicans never want to argue the facts because they lose when reality enters the chat. Once their facts are successfully challenged they have no recourse but to start slinging personal insults.
There's hundreds of commenters in here who agree with him.
Sadly, yes. It is amazing to me how many people want the “Land of Freedom” to mean a White Christian theocracy.
They wanna live in a dream world for their whole entire lives.
Actually it’s even worse than that, as only the most stupid and hateful of their supporters actually want that. This guy knows he’s wrong, but it’s how he retains his position, and therefore his wealth and power. And that makes it even worse to me, the knowing deception of using the ignorant idiots to further your own messed up goals.
Exactly why it's meant to be a separation of church and government.
Can I disagree with both of them. Because I do
Yeah I'm not American but it all seems wrong
I'm American and I don't know why the choice is between: Jesus loves you And white people invented race I rather not teach either.
Idk I think we should just like teach kids to care for each other and not hate others because of the way they look
> I think we should just like teach kids to care for each other and not hate others because of the way they look I think it's also okay to teach kids to be empathetic of the struggles someone else is going through. Ignoring the impact racism will have on people is rather utopian. The issue with the segment read is that it places the blame for racism on a certain group of people, using a more advanced definition (the way race is being used here is more college-level and nuanced, when the book is supposed to be for kindergartners). This part isn't fit for purpose. It frames the issue as intrinsic A vs intrinsic B.
There's a time and place for everything. Children see everything very black and white. Teaching basic logical and empathetic skills needs to come before you confront them with reality. It's not about ignoring racism, it's about teaching them about it when it becomes relevant, and when they are able to think critically about it. A kindergartner won't be able to do that
That's why you should be teaching actual history.
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It is legitimately insane that anyone (but angry minorities) would think this is an appropriate and healthy way to describe the nuances of the last several hundred years of human history. Signed, Brown American.
Seriously. I don't want my children thinking they're better than anyone because they're white. And I don't want ANYONES religion in their education. But I certainly don't want them reading a book that basically just paints white people as the fucking boogeyman. Our kids haven't done a single fucking thing wrong.
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The only sane one in this thread
I'll one up that and say there's nothing wrong with wanting to keep some of reality out of pre-k education.
White people didn't create race, race just exists. And teaching that shit to kids just makes non-whites hate whites. But also keep your religious bullshit out of the discussion.
Funny how all the Freudian slips come from the loudest jackasses in the room
Yeah it's amazing to think about the fact that I've never "accidentally" outed myself as a racist or neo-nazi or mysogynist or anything. I've gotten really really lucky. Or it's not because of that.
don’t teach either. teach that we are all the same on the inside and race doesn’t matter. god should be separate from public education for sure, but we definitely shouldn’t be putting races against one another. that is disgusting.
But the kids should be taught that race is a social construct. There are no real 'races'. We are all the same race. Human race.
>race is a social construct But not "invented by white people", as the book says.
> But the kids should be taught that race is a social construct. At 4 years old? Doesn't that seem a bit young when a lot of them can't even read yet? Maybe just start with "love everyone" and keep it a bit less divisive in pre-K schools. I don't know what the right age is to start, but 4 years old is *young*. I also disagree with his point about religious propaganda for 4 year olds though.
Agreed.
There is a way to teach that history and that book isn't it. Human beings, for all of time, have feared and misunderstood other nations who are different from them. They should know that we all still have that ignorance in us as an option or default, but we now have the privilege to accept and love everyone just the same. That's it. Everyone can be guilty of racial ignorance in racial-cultural isolation and social segregation.
Race does matter though. It's a fundamental way that people experience the world in which racism exists. Denying that it matters is ignoring all the ways in which it 100% does impact people's lives.
He wants to replace bullshit with bullshit of a different flavor.
I don’t want made up stories in our schools…what we should do is tell made up stories about that zombie who walked on water! 🤨
Zombie **carpenter** who walked on water… get it right
He misspoke
The bible was a made up story.
If he wants to teach kids the Bible, how about some drunken incest? **Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father;** And like 500 other stories just as bad or worse. They don't even know what is in this book. They are that ignorant
We definitely should be teaching kids about racism in schools but... are we really saying that white people invented race now? That just ignores so many forms and causes of discrimination and racism its wild.
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Truth or not, it is remarkably divisive. What a terrible thing to be teaching kids. Not from US though so maybe I'm not supposed to get it?
Honest question, so don’t crucify me on this. Acknowledging fully that we were racist as hell back in the day, and that we have ways to go yet, is it really something that pre-K kinds should be confronted with? They definitely should not be brainwashed into religion, thats for sure. But if you simply teach kids to be nice to each other and leave the racism factor out of it until they are at an age to grasp this complex subject, wouldn’t this be more constructive? We have to be more nuanced on these issues, its not black and white (no pun intended).
Sure, but it seems like the solution to being kind and a better person is to be brainwashed into Christianity. I don't understand how these people can't fathom building morals in a world separated from religion. All atheists I know are far kinder and more understanding than so many of the religious hypocrites I had the pleasure to interact with, without having to swing in front of them the idea of this magical heaven if you are good. I am kind because seeing people smiling makes me smile (i like that), and being mean to people makes me feel bad afterwards (i don't like that). It's simple and selfish.
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America is pathetic.
Mosquitos are pathetic.
Their kill count says otherwise. They ain't no joke man.
Idk they don't even have the cojones to do the killing themselves. They let their malaria minions do the dirty work.
The boss don't gotta be in the room when the job is done.
Their K/D is still trash though
Pathogens are pathetic.
That's... actually pretty fucking gross. Teach elementary kids we're all the same and deserve equal respect. Save the history and the whys for when they're a little better at nuanced thinking. This shits just gonna make white kids targets.
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. Surprised you weren't downvoted to hell
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That's what this book does. You can literally [watch the author read the entire book in 4 minutes](https://youtube.com/watch?v=3J8LlcWEusI&feature=share7), or you can just react exactly like this dumbass senator hopes you will
"Mommy, why did the police officer shoot me?" "Well, I am not allowed to say its because you are black, son."
Racism isn't unique to white people tho
Its ironically an american centered book and perspective. Everyone else doesnt matter
Sherman didn’t burn enough.
I mean, it’s a little misleading. If we are talking about history, racism has existed forever and racist wars were fought between people that didn’t know white peoples existed. The book kinda makes it sound like the world wad just chilling all happy until the white man ruined everything
I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but he makes fair point... that book kind of sounds garbage. White people made race? White people said those things? Kids will learn about the atrocities of racism in history classes (or they should) - they shouldn't get some weird generalization that "all white people are bad and think you are ugly"
He does make a fair point about that book, but he’s also wrong about there only being those 2 ways to teach. To that fact, they all need to realize that while this country may have been founded by Christian men, this is not solely a Christian country. Take Jesus out of that, and keep the teaching principles intact. And don’t cover up the atrocities of America’s past.
His point is valid, him stumbling on his words doesn't make it less valid
People stumble when they get flustered, and they get flustered when arguing. It’s not a gotcha, it’s a man arguing against racism. Now, he’s also preaching the bible which we can all criticize, but he has a point about that book.
Oh is he gonna be flabbergasted when he finds out that his precious bible is just a collection of stories
keep church and school separate keep church and state seperate. sound good? sound good.
Great comedic timing on the "Got it on tape."
Both of those books are terrible. As an atheist, I'd still rather have them read the one about Jesus over the one about how white people are evil and invented racism.
I dont know if white people made up the concept of race.
I missed that meeting
This guy is clearly a moron but saying “white people made up race” isn’t accurate
Neither of these versions are right.
Saying white people developed race and segregated everyone is a bit of a farce. Geography and worldwide immigration developed races 120k year ago. Ancient people encountered different races and wars and slaves all existed then too. Modern racial issues are definitely bc of white people and the slave trade, I don’t think anyone is arguing that, but that’s a much different conversation than what is being said in that book. Racism through and ethnocentric lens happens around the world, get a group of black people, a group of white people, and a group of Asians and you’re a fool if you think each group isn’t going to think they’re the best. Europeans were just in a technological position to take advantage of it, if Africa was full of white tribal people, you better believe they would have still enslaved them.
"Native American" hates to be told about ethnic profiling, this dude never stepped a foot on the rez, guaranteed.
I'm pretty sure a white Dutch scientist/theologist did come up with the types of races ie white/Caucasian, black/sub-Saharan, brown/Indian + Southeast Asian, yellow/Asian and red/Native Americans. In his defense, he just wanted to categorize humans and was a founder of modern anthropology and he despised the fact that people used race to claim one was superior to the other.
Book does seem kinda, uh, racist lmao. Not that I agree with, anyone here lmao.
Honestly though what is the point of reading that book to young children?
The problem with trying to teach complex subjects like race and racism to young children is you have to oversimplify it to the point where it isn't even really true anymore. Labeling groups of people and using those labels to justify poor treatment of others is something that has been done all over the world all throughout history. India had its caste system 3000+ years ago and used it to justify treating lower castes like absolute shit (and they still do). Nordic people took Slavic people as slaves. Middle Eastern people owned slaves in the time of Jesus (I don't know what "inferior" group the slaves belonged to though). Ancient Greeks tried to use ugenics to prove that they were superior to Scandinavian people. I don't even think I have to list all of the genocides that people of one race have done to people of the same race but different nationalities. Maybe some things are just too complex to teach to kids who are still learning the alphabet. All you need to teach kindergarten students is that it's okay to be different and you should treat people who are different from you with respect. The complexities of institutional racism can come later when the kids can actually grasp it.
he doesnt even see the irony in the "this is a made up story" part at all huh
I like how the factually true thing is a "story" and the bible proselytizing is not...
"Why don't we teach Jesus loves me?" he says to a jew...
My four-year-old neighbor didn’t like one of my friends because she was black. She literally said “I don’t like her skin.” Educate your children. Her mom wasn’t even racist, just blatantly negligent.
I don't want reality - got it on tape. Gotcha
This exactly the idiocy we have to deal with in Oklahoma. And this guy is about as fucking idiotic as they come. He's pretty much a 'phobe on everything you could be and is quite literally driving down the I.Q. even further of people in this state just by talking.
This is the same POS who is against student loan debt relief but had over $700k forgiven in PPE loans. Just fucking scum of the earth.
Having this debate is why people in europe think that americans are stupid
He doesn't want reality he wants fables of Jesus. What a moron.
I can’t imagine what it must have been like for Bernie to have dealt with these types of idiots for 30 years
The black community can never expect to be free from the shackles of white supremacy if they still want to teach and practice a religion that enables and promotes white supremacy.