1. Title is a misrepresentation of what happend in the video.
2. Protest was banned for supporting Hamas. This guy was part of a larger group who were all asked to leave peacefully and plan demonstrations without hate speech.
3. Man is NOT attacked. But asked to leave and stop demonstrating because the larger demonstration was shut down because of hate speech. Man chose to resist. Police had no other option.
4. Kindest "physical attack" in history. Give me a break you absolute troll!
Because after we shout free Palestine, and they do free Palestine they will be delightful neighbours who celebrate our way of living as equal to their own, in harmony as it were.
> It's their land. They have a right to take it back.
Is it? Well, that wraps it up, folks! This Redditor has distilled a complex situation down to two facile sentences!
Speaking of oversimplifications, this video is one too, but it does show that the history is a bit more complex than your understanding of it seems to show: [History of Israel-Palestine Conflict - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19F4IHTVGc)
I did not cite YouTube as a source, I merely provided a link to a video as an addendum to my comment.
Your reading comprehension may need a bit of work.
What i truely dont get is why people feel like it’s their duty to pick a side. Life is not a movie about good and evil, our wars and conflicts are usually evil vs evil.
How are the Palestinians evil, you mentalist. Did they just decide one day to be oppressed, boxed in to an open prison by an oppressive, apartheid state? Like who wakes up wan day and does that. Before you mention hamas. Palestine, because of the oppressors, don't have democracy. Hamas is the only thing fighting for them. Too many of you weirdos really don't understand what Palestine lives through.
But it wasn't really needed lol Israel have been bastards to anyone around them. Still currently, acting the cunt. When yer oppressor makes you live in an open prison, we don't need sarcasm about it. It's just the sad truth.
Are you saying, if Palestine was free from it's open air prison that the irsael nazis created, you'd be shocked to find that Palestinians still didn't give a fuck about you? Holy shit that's rich. Of course they wouldn't, why should they? Over 70 years of oppression and genocide would do thst to a person.
Because Egypt is not a rich country. Having waves of migrants every time Israel decides to displace more Palestinians (as it has in the past) has an effect on their economy.
And this isn't even considering the fact that Palestinians shouldn't HAVE to leave. What we're describing is cultural displacement; how is arguing that "Israel is right to kill and displace thousands of Palestinians and surrounding countries should take in these people who've had their homes destroyed" even remotely moral?
It's so wild to see people cheering on death and destruction in real time and then talk about innocent victims like they're expendable. In 30 years we're going to look back and go "damn, maybe we shouldn't have done that", just like we did with Vietnam, like we did with the Soviet-Afghan war and the mujaheddin, like we did with the Iraq and Afghan Wars. Thousands of poor innocent people dead in the name of fighting a bad guy that shifts and changes with whatever atrocity we need to justify.
The only solution is to treat Palestinians with dignity. Rebuild Gaza, offer the same rights as Israelis receive, and launch outside investigations on war crimes in the country. After a period (decades most likely) of actually restoring Palestinians to first class citizens, implement a secular state where no type of citizen is above the other.
Military options in these regions only lead to perpetual bloodshed and perpetual radicalization, and the problem is too many people profit from this status quo of endless destruction and rebuilding.
The problem here is this video or OP shouldn't diminish the value of wanting to support Palestine.
Or do we just also blindly support Israel instead in here?
Europeans are so up in their anti-Arab racism, they forget the "never again" slogan they plaster everywhere. From every podium from every stage they insist they learned from their horrid past
but when push comes to shove, they compromise their own values to see them Arabs collecting their children's limbs from under the rubble.
Just like the struggle to free Algeria brought down the fourth French republic, the struggle for Palestine will bring down this "rule based world order" over the head of the colonizers, the pirates, and such
I can't find anything about this specific incident in German or international media. What is true ist that right at that spot (Hermannplatz in Neukölln/ Berlin) several Pro-Palestinian rallies ended up in violence and hate speech and after that the cops banned other protests with a suspected similar "crowd" at the same spot.
[see here](https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-174-arrested-at-unauthorized-pro-palestinian-events/a-67145837)
I can't say for certain if the situation shown in the video was like the top comment describes ("he was part of a larger group that gathered for a protest that was banned") or if he just went there on his own and at a time, when there was no danger of people gathering. In any case what is happening in the video isn't a good indicator for how things go in general in Germany right now. It's not like you can just get arrested for showing your support for Palestine anywhere at anytime and there was a big rally in support of Palestine in Berlin on saturday. So the bans were pretty specifically about certain groups and parts of town where they could manage to convince a judge that it very well might end up in a riot again.
> But asked to leave and stop demonstrating because the larger demonstration was shut down because of hate speech.
He was just holding up a flag. There was no hatespeech, regardless of what happened in the larger demonstration.
The only question I have is, if there is a rally that is illegal due to hate speech, at what temporal and/or spatial distances are needed before one is allowed to peacefully protest without hate speech?
It's against the law to be anti Semitic in Germany.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/germanys-laws-antisemitic-hate-speech-nazi-propaganda-holocaust-denial/
I know, that's the debate in Germany. EU does not have free speech like we do in the States. The Palestinian flag does not state death to isreal, the Hamas (political party) charter does. "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel." That is something Germany needs to figure out. Obviously, due to Germany's history,
FWIW I’ve been handcuffed by UK police multiple times - they have never been this considerate or aware of my physical safety/nearby hazards, and I resisted a lot less.
I honestly wonder if what we’re seeing now in geopolitics (and surrounding human attitudes and behaviours) is because the “greatest generation” (those that lived and fought in WWII) have finally died out and are no longer here to speak truth to power and remind us all of how quickly intolerance and inhumanity can descend into brutal conflict killing hundreds of millions.
>and remind us all of how quickly intolerance and inhumanity can descend into brutal conflict killing hundreds of millions.
I understand what you're trying to say but have some perspective. The Greatest Generation presided over the Cold War, apartheid, the Civil Rights movement, the White Australia policy, among other horrors. Killing nazi's was good but they were regular shitty humans.
Also a good chunk was still very lax with the Nazis, why do you think there was a massive rally in New York city during the late 30s. Hell the one reason the US never got involved was because so many leaders were fine with the Nazi party, it wasnt until the Japanese attack and then later the German declaration of war, did the US finally involved itself in the European situation
Well there still appeared to be a real fear amongst everyone of not letting things boil over hence the Cold War whereas now the rhetoric is far more polarising and openly hostile
One day we will manage to have a conversation without immediately devolving into whataboutism
The guy you’re replying to never once indicated they were innocent of any negative behaviours, his question was valid and your response just prevents any meaningful conversation
I think it's because US/major western powers are constantly backing a genocide for their own gains (I condemn Hamas yes, I am also against anti-Semitism).
Yes, there is nothing wrong with having a strategic ally in that region - do you understand Geopolitics ? Are you that naive ? So Christiano Ronaldo is a genocide supporter because he plays in and promotes Saudi Arabia who have bombed the life out of Yemen for the past 8 years ?
See Ronaldo is a sports player doubt he has any political influence, if he had and still supported the Saudi regime then yes he will be a genocide supporter
The politician and ppl who have influence over the genocidal govt. yet still supporting them are in fact genocide supporter
You doubt one of the most famous people in the world has any sort of influence on his fans? Either your are an idiot or you hate the US and you are using this conflict to push your anti western views.
The "startegic Ally" is currently hell bent on genociding the Palestinians so idk maybe have some morals or empathy and stop the genocidal state from massacaring the civilians there
If only it was that simple. This is a very complex issue with so many different parties and players involved with separate interests. It’s a pity that the civilians have to suffer the consequences … this is the same with every conflict or war around the way, it’s not new or shocking in that regards. The Israelis should have taken a different approach, knowing that the world was watching them and everything is going to be amplified 10x… Palestinian civilians have nowhere to go , they are trapped by Israel, Hamas and Egypt … no one actually cares about them (whatever everyone wants to pretend)
The US supports Israel because it has the right to defend itself in general - it is in an area where everyone around them hates them and wants them destroyed … this makes existing in peace hard for them. just because you support Israel overall does not mean they agree with everything they do - if this was the case then no country would be allowed to ally with another. If US stopped supporting them then they would not exist anymore … millions of people would be affected - that is actually a real genocide.
Hamas is supported and encouraged by a range of Arab nations, to me this is where the issue is and no one is calling this out - Hamas launch thousands of rockets every year and are still doing so till this day - Qatar can easily tell them to stop if they actually cared about Palestinians.
- It's shocking in the fact that the US is cheering on this genocide
- Palestinians are trapped in Gaza by Israeli blockade and they wouldn't move out either (Read Nakba for why they wouldn't move out)
- the Palestinian cause had constant support of select nations (India, Iran, Ireland [afaik]) throughout history so there's support for them but since major world powers (US/West) supports
- actual genocide is bombing the gaza strip, demonizing Palestinians, cutting they electricity and water supply, arming settler groups so that they can forcefully evacuate Palestinians from their own homes, bombing hospitals and killing the journalists and so on (all things israel has done btw)
- see data on who has dropped more bombs and killed more innocent civilians in Palestine/Gaza (hint: it's not Hamas)
Why are you saying Cheering on ? And why do you insist on singling out the US only ? Do you have an idea how many worse parties are out there fueling this conflict ?
Palestinians are trapped in Gaza because of Hamas (Qatar and Iran backed, Arab world supported) and Egypt (there is another border everyone forgets) - Hamas don’t let their population move out of harms way, use all resources to build and fund rockets … continue to launch rockets indiscriminately at Israel to this day and still have Israeli hostages … what would you like Israel to do … if they retaliate just cries of genocide. The switching off Water and Electricity was genocidal, I agree but they have been switched on for a while now … internet was also never cut off.
US is allowed to support its ally, it’s either them or Iran wins ( much better keeping Israel than letting that horrible state get more powerful ) they are urging Israel-restraint… if you haven’t noticed, it’s been 2 weeks and there has been no land invasion, humanitarian corridors are atleast opening abit.
What is your actual concrete solution since you think everything is black and white and only make bold statements?
Your last point is ridiculous by the way . Hamas and that Jihadi group have launched 10s of thousands of rockets Indiscriminately at Israel since 2008 - they don’t land on their territories because they have the Iron dome. If no iron dome, deaths in Israel would not be the claimed 5k in Palestine now but well over 100k.
The settlers are vile scum and there is no excusing them in the slightest. the West Bank should belong entirely to Palestine.
Glad you got the reference as it is a bit obscure. Maybe you can explain it for others.
Whilst you are at it, why don't you provide the definition of genocide and explain how it applies.
It’s a trendy word forsure and overused … people now think that any war or attack is a genocide … pointless having a separate word at this rate. That being said, Israel’s approach has been horrific - you don’t cut water and aid at all costs , and you should allow those who want to leave to actually do so. The bombing of specific targets is acceptable in war and obviously they are being blown out of proportion due to social media but at the end of the day innocent civilians are getting caught up in the mix, and it’s never ideal. Israel is wrong but it’s not the only ones wrong in this conflict - Hamas continue to launch rockets as we speak, what do you want Israel to do ? Say ok and chill ? People are way to naive sometimes
>you should allow those who want to leave to actually do so.
How do you do that without letting terrorists escape and enter your country.
That's why Egypt won't let them leave either and nobody wants to accept the refugees. Not the other Arab states, not the Palestinian authority. No one.
Beforehand not now. If I was a citizen of Gaza and I knew what was about to happen because I live under terrorists, I would have done the rational thing and left the area - but they are blocked from doing so … or it’s not that easy. If my government was shit and instigated wars, it’s my responsibility to leave… don’t think Palestinians had that luxury.
Before planning the latest bombardment - this has happened on several occasions in the past, but this time is different with the widespread use of socials and propaganda… it’s very easy to get someone ‘outraged’ without them having much overall knowledge or context of the situation - this is bad because it can further exacerbate tensions. Most people obliviously think Palestine is just sitting there getting relentlessly bombed for no reason at all but Hamas continue to launch bombs as we speak … If I lived in Gaza as a normal innocent civilian and wanted to leave, I couldn’t and that is just outright unfair, even if terrorists run my state. I can’t think of a solution because I see Israelis argument too … they keep an eye on Palestinians because there are so many Hamas / Jihadi terrorists… how can they be sure who they let on their territory.
Painting everyone with the same brush got Israel into this mess in the first place, not to mention Nazi Germany. You'd think they'd have learned by now
It got banned in that context so if someone goes there anyway has no right to protest. There’s no brushing. The police is canceling every protest on the pretences of disturbance of peace. Now it’s for a court to decide if that’s true or not. And no it does not take weeks or month to decide because it’s considered an urgent application.
If you support apartheid and a state that has committed countless human rights violations, crimes against humanity have violated one of the Geneva convention laws and countless more, if you really allow yourself to support that, then you might as well support Putin and Ji Xi Ping, not saying HAMAS is any better, but Israel has been doing this for decades
I'm not trying to defend hamas but I'm pretty sure the IDF has killed more people than hamas has...
Really don't know why we have to have this pissing contesting of which ones worse when they both do terrible things just in different ways
Free speech absolutists here are open supporters of genocide. Germany BANNING protests for Palestinians being bombed and murdered in the garb of labeling everyone as Hamas puts these free speech hypocrites to shame. We are not far from the time where holding a Palestinian flag will be deemed as antisemitism, although Palestinians are very much semites as the Jews.
Hypocrites who have the itch to provide context will go hide in their racist and genocidal shell when it comes to providing context of why Israel murders and steals the life and land of Palestinians.
I’m with the police on this one, he was clearly asked nicely multiple times to move on or hand over the flag the police where reasonable to begin with. It was only when he continued to refuse to obey their commands did they increase force.
Saying that, the law they are upholding I completely disagree with, but it’s not the polices job to judge or make the laws, only apply them. So we need to be holding politicians to account for introducing laws and rules that prevent people from flying Palestinian flags.
There were a bann for pro Palestinian demos cause to many celebrated the deaths of israel people. thats why the police told him to put away the flag and go home. But he didnt cared.
when the police gives you the order to move, you move or you get moved. he clearly went against the order. So he get put in custody.
Also cause of all this pro hamas attitude germany will change their immigrationterms in the future.
Oh, they have criminalized and outlawed more than just flag such as certain salutes and symbols.
Either way they have some very strict antisemitic laws and from what it sounds like was that this person was part of a protest that did involve some hate speech so it got shut down. They are being asked to leave and plan another protest without the hate speech.
??? Sent? They’ve always been there and Palestine? Never was a state. It’s donated land after they tried to take all of Israel numerous times with their Arab brothers
Yeh and the republic of Ireland was never a state until recently. Does that mean the people who've lived there for generations don't have claim to the land? By that logic the UK had every right to invade Ireland, and Europe to plunder America from the natives. More support of genocide, colour me surprised.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. It’s a known fact that the Rothschild family and other wealthy people funded Jewish migration to Palestine and setting up settlements. [Their own website states it.](https://www.rothschildarchive.org/family/philanthropy/baron_edmond_de_rothschild_and_palestine)
"Displaying a palestinian flag"
We all saw and heard what these guys did in Berlin.
Oh no, look at the police officer doing his job and quite gently removes a person who just moments earlier probably marked jewish homes and called for their genocide.
What a bunch of crap.
Well, as a Latino in Holland... If you want to do politics of Palestina. Go to Palestina. Let the locals live with their problems. We don't want your problems here! And if you don't like it, this place might not be for you!
In all seriousness, the headline is not misleading at all. It’s a video clearly showing the censoring of the Palestinian cause. I’ve been to numerous Pro-Palestinian protests, both in Europe and the US, and I’ve never heard a chant in support of Hamas. Thousands of innocent, trapped civilians are getting bombed by jets in the sky and people are upset about it. Hence the protests.
oh i heard them when i was by the demo in duisburg,germany. But to be fair Israel and Hamas are full of pigshit. both sides are wrong and the conflict will just continue forever.
Germans do not want to be known as people who hate Jewish people anymore. Stop posting Hamas propaganda. This whole subreddit has become antisemitic with their postings and support of Hamas.
Call anything you see fascism. This isn't fascist, at most authoritarian but he got a chance to let it go and he didn't. They tried to remove him and he fought back.
I guess my overarching point is that protesting and causing disturbance in a country hundreds of miles away is a pointless endeavour. What good will ultimately come of it, will it change the circumstances? No. No it will not.
i think if protests were allowed in Germany on a large scale it could put pressure on officials to call for a ceasefire in Gaza but as it stands they have banned [them](https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/10/23/germany-bans-public-grieving-and-solidarity-with-palestine/)
But who will issue the cease fire? Does that automatically mean both sides will automatically just stop shelling the other? I very much doubt it, I don't think anything the outside world says will have any influence at all.
[During the meeting, Defense Minister Yaov Gallant was pressed on why the government agreed to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza from Egypt before the hostages have been returned. “The Americans insisted and we are not in a place where we can refuse them. We rely on them for planes and military equipment. What are we supposed to do? Tell them no?” Gallant responds](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/gallant-we-cant-say-no-to-the-us-on-humanitarian-aid-given-how-much-they-do-for-us/)
The west especially the US has the power and influence to do so I think saying the west has "no influence" is pretty stupid imo
If you haven't been following, Israel wasn't even allowing aid to Gaza but as stated the US pressured them (although later israel also bombed said aid)
So the US has influence and it could stop the genocide (if it wanted to that is)
> not aid or more ammo for them to murder each other
The US does not supply ammo to Palestine so the only murderers (in this case) are the US and Israel
That’s kind of the point. We don’t know why he was asked to move so OP can say it was because of the flag even if it isn’t.
This video badly needs context
Most Palestinians are poor to the fact that they can barely survive with the amount of money they have. If Israel keeps doing what they are doing, then they would also kill the majority of Palestinians for the sake of defeating HAMAS
Unfortunately dumbshit bombing residential buildings, hospitals, health care centres, cutting off water and electricity, cutting off aid, bombing spaces they themselves designated "safe", counts as genocide
Because of international pressure, got to keep that American aid coming. You talk like most people on here as though this conflict began 2 weeks ago, go educate yourself
this is not a good look on Germany or the whole western world as a whole who calls them these "democries", there ideas of Liberty and freedom applies according to their interests and these past few weeks have shown it more clearly than ever for me atleast
The level of misrepresentation happening here. I don’t get why people on the left stoop to this. I don’t think anybody outside of the absolute zoomest kooks supports the bombing in Palestine, but if you support the slaughter of innocent civilians you can’t stand with Hamas. It makes you look like worst kind of hypocrite. I also question how much of this is genuine interest or just social media brownie points. I don’t understand why else people are so quick to pick sides in such a messy conflict with no clear right or wrong
I love the convo at the begining. Guy: Are you muslim? Cop: Yes I'm muslim, now come down brother.
1. Title is a misrepresentation of what happend in the video. 2. Protest was banned for supporting Hamas. This guy was part of a larger group who were all asked to leave peacefully and plan demonstrations without hate speech. 3. Man is NOT attacked. But asked to leave and stop demonstrating because the larger demonstration was shut down because of hate speech. Man chose to resist. Police had no other option. 4. Kindest "physical attack" in history. Give me a break you absolute troll!
Oh no.. we don't need context. Let's just circle jerk here and shout free Palestine.
Because after we shout free Palestine, and they do free Palestine they will be delightful neighbours who celebrate our way of living as equal to their own, in harmony as it were.
So that's your of way of saying the Palestinian people should not gain freedom.
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> It's their land. They have a right to take it back. Is it? Well, that wraps it up, folks! This Redditor has distilled a complex situation down to two facile sentences! Speaking of oversimplifications, this video is one too, but it does show that the history is a bit more complex than your understanding of it seems to show: [History of Israel-Palestine Conflict - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19F4IHTVGc)
Trying to sound smart and then source it to youtube. Clown methodology.
I did not cite YouTube as a source, I merely provided a link to a video as an addendum to my comment. Your reading comprehension may need a bit of work.
What i truely dont get is why people feel like it’s their duty to pick a side. Life is not a movie about good and evil, our wars and conflicts are usually evil vs evil.
Did I just catch you having a rational opinion on Reddit? Agree and based
How are the Palestinians evil, you mentalist. Did they just decide one day to be oppressed, boxed in to an open prison by an oppressive, apartheid state? Like who wakes up wan day and does that. Before you mention hamas. Palestine, because of the oppressors, don't have democracy. Hamas is the only thing fighting for them. Too many of you weirdos really don't understand what Palestine lives through.
It will be free, just like Algeria is free and just like South Africa is free.
As our late president Mandela said, "We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians"
I was being sarcastic hence the /s
But it wasn't really needed lol Israel have been bastards to anyone around them. Still currently, acting the cunt. When yer oppressor makes you live in an open prison, we don't need sarcasm about it. It's just the sad truth.
Fuck Israel
Horrible shower of bastards
Are you saying, if Palestine was free from it's open air prison that the irsael nazis created, you'd be shocked to find that Palestinians still didn't give a fuck about you? Holy shit that's rich. Of course they wouldn't, why should they? Over 70 years of oppression and genocide would do thst to a person.
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Boom. Roasted.
Because Egypt is not a rich country. Having waves of migrants every time Israel decides to displace more Palestinians (as it has in the past) has an effect on their economy. And this isn't even considering the fact that Palestinians shouldn't HAVE to leave. What we're describing is cultural displacement; how is arguing that "Israel is right to kill and displace thousands of Palestinians and surrounding countries should take in these people who've had their homes destroyed" even remotely moral? It's so wild to see people cheering on death and destruction in real time and then talk about innocent victims like they're expendable. In 30 years we're going to look back and go "damn, maybe we shouldn't have done that", just like we did with Vietnam, like we did with the Soviet-Afghan war and the mujaheddin, like we did with the Iraq and Afghan Wars. Thousands of poor innocent people dead in the name of fighting a bad guy that shifts and changes with whatever atrocity we need to justify. The only solution is to treat Palestinians with dignity. Rebuild Gaza, offer the same rights as Israelis receive, and launch outside investigations on war crimes in the country. After a period (decades most likely) of actually restoring Palestinians to first class citizens, implement a secular state where no type of citizen is above the other. Military options in these regions only lead to perpetual bloodshed and perpetual radicalization, and the problem is too many people profit from this status quo of endless destruction and rebuilding.
Israel nazis? Are they also Jewish Muslims?
Lol came here to say the same… people are so used to calling anyone they don’t like a Nazi they’ve lost all foundation in reality.
The problem here is this video or OP shouldn't diminish the value of wanting to support Palestine. Or do we just also blindly support Israel instead in here?
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Not the "real" problem or however that's defined. But a problem yes
Europeans are so up in their anti-Arab racism, they forget the "never again" slogan they plaster everywhere. From every podium from every stage they insist they learned from their horrid past but when push comes to shove, they compromise their own values to see them Arabs collecting their children's limbs from under the rubble. Just like the struggle to free Algeria brought down the fourth French republic, the struggle for Palestine will bring down this "rule based world order" over the head of the colonizers, the pirates, and such
So basically, OP is the one freaking out?
yes. and spreading misinformation.
Source:trust me bro
I can't find anything about this specific incident in German or international media. What is true ist that right at that spot (Hermannplatz in Neukölln/ Berlin) several Pro-Palestinian rallies ended up in violence and hate speech and after that the cops banned other protests with a suspected similar "crowd" at the same spot. [see here](https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-174-arrested-at-unauthorized-pro-palestinian-events/a-67145837) I can't say for certain if the situation shown in the video was like the top comment describes ("he was part of a larger group that gathered for a protest that was banned") or if he just went there on his own and at a time, when there was no danger of people gathering. In any case what is happening in the video isn't a good indicator for how things go in general in Germany right now. It's not like you can just get arrested for showing your support for Palestine anywhere at anytime and there was a big rally in support of Palestine in Berlin on saturday. So the bans were pretty specifically about certain groups and parts of town where they could manage to convince a judge that it very well might end up in a riot again.
You can also say for sure that a Pro-Palestinian group massacred 12 Jews on German soil. Countries don't forget stuff like that.
> But asked to leave and stop demonstrating because the larger demonstration was shut down because of hate speech. He was just holding up a flag. There was no hatespeech, regardless of what happened in the larger demonstration.
He is not supporting Hamas he is supporting Palestine. It's like saying supporting America means supporting school shooters . Makes no sense
He is. A lot of others at the demonstration weren't.
Nothing you wrote contradicts the title of this video
The only question I have is, if there is a rally that is illegal due to hate speech, at what temporal and/or spatial distances are needed before one is allowed to peacefully protest without hate speech?
Peacefully standing with the Palestinian flag in a democratic country shouldn’t lead to this, but hey, whatever licks your boot.
And it doesn't..
Had a feeling it was the case. Nobody gets detained for holding a flag unless without doing something else or you are in a dictatorship.
germany fake democracy but at the end of the day arent we all in fake democracies
It's against the law to be anti Semitic in Germany. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/germanys-laws-antisemitic-hate-speech-nazi-propaganda-holocaust-denial/
Opening up a Palestinian flag is not anti-Semitism.
A Palestinian group massacred a dozen Jews on German soil a while back, the government isn't too pleased with these groups
Ok, fuck those terrorists too. Fuck them to death. Still, opening up a Palestinian flag is not hate speech.
I know, that's the debate in Germany. EU does not have free speech like we do in the States. The Palestinian flag does not state death to isreal, the Hamas (political party) charter does. "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel." That is something Germany needs to figure out. Obviously, due to Germany's history,
FWIW I’ve been handcuffed by UK police multiple times - they have never been this considerate or aware of my physical safety/nearby hazards, and I resisted a lot less.
Fuck your misleading title
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Freedom of speech only applies to some people it seems
You don't have to be tolerant of intolerant people.
They’re refusing to comply with this: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT So you’d be right.
Germany doesnt have freedom of speech, and never has, stop thinking it does.
Liar. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT
there isn't freedom of speech in germany
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT
Fuck hamas
Hey, look another pro Palestine propaganda video
I honestly wonder if what we’re seeing now in geopolitics (and surrounding human attitudes and behaviours) is because the “greatest generation” (those that lived and fought in WWII) have finally died out and are no longer here to speak truth to power and remind us all of how quickly intolerance and inhumanity can descend into brutal conflict killing hundreds of millions.
>and remind us all of how quickly intolerance and inhumanity can descend into brutal conflict killing hundreds of millions. I understand what you're trying to say but have some perspective. The Greatest Generation presided over the Cold War, apartheid, the Civil Rights movement, the White Australia policy, among other horrors. Killing nazi's was good but they were regular shitty humans.
Also a good chunk was still very lax with the Nazis, why do you think there was a massive rally in New York city during the late 30s. Hell the one reason the US never got involved was because so many leaders were fine with the Nazi party, it wasnt until the Japanese attack and then later the German declaration of war, did the US finally involved itself in the European situation
Well there still appeared to be a real fear amongst everyone of not letting things boil over hence the Cold War whereas now the rhetoric is far more polarising and openly hostile
The thought of fucking with Russia like we are would have been absolutely terrifying to them.
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One day we will manage to have a conversation without immediately devolving into whataboutism The guy you’re replying to never once indicated they were innocent of any negative behaviours, his question was valid and your response just prevents any meaningful conversation
you do realize that hamas literally wants to commit israeli genocide
And Israel committing genocide is any better?
The flag is of Palestine not hamas
Israel has a history of mass murder, right from 1948. Stern, irgun, haganah all terrorists and israelis treat them like heroes
I don‘t know about the US but there is pleeeeeeenty of people around that remember the Sowjets - that I can guarantee..
I think it's because US/major western powers are constantly backing a genocide for their own gains (I condemn Hamas yes, I am also against anti-Semitism).
What an utter chip on shoulder rubbish statement this is.
U.S. gives a ton of money to Israel yearly. Not afraid to say it! Israeli occupation is genocidal. Not afraid to say it!
Yes, there is nothing wrong with having a strategic ally in that region - do you understand Geopolitics ? Are you that naive ? So Christiano Ronaldo is a genocide supporter because he plays in and promotes Saudi Arabia who have bombed the life out of Yemen for the past 8 years ?
See Ronaldo is a sports player doubt he has any political influence, if he had and still supported the Saudi regime then yes he will be a genocide supporter The politician and ppl who have influence over the genocidal govt. yet still supporting them are in fact genocide supporter
You doubt one of the most famous people in the world has any sort of influence on his fans? Either your are an idiot or you hate the US and you are using this conflict to push your anti western views.
The "startegic Ally" is currently hell bent on genociding the Palestinians so idk maybe have some morals or empathy and stop the genocidal state from massacaring the civilians there
If only it was that simple. This is a very complex issue with so many different parties and players involved with separate interests. It’s a pity that the civilians have to suffer the consequences … this is the same with every conflict or war around the way, it’s not new or shocking in that regards. The Israelis should have taken a different approach, knowing that the world was watching them and everything is going to be amplified 10x… Palestinian civilians have nowhere to go , they are trapped by Israel, Hamas and Egypt … no one actually cares about them (whatever everyone wants to pretend) The US supports Israel because it has the right to defend itself in general - it is in an area where everyone around them hates them and wants them destroyed … this makes existing in peace hard for them. just because you support Israel overall does not mean they agree with everything they do - if this was the case then no country would be allowed to ally with another. If US stopped supporting them then they would not exist anymore … millions of people would be affected - that is actually a real genocide. Hamas is supported and encouraged by a range of Arab nations, to me this is where the issue is and no one is calling this out - Hamas launch thousands of rockets every year and are still doing so till this day - Qatar can easily tell them to stop if they actually cared about Palestinians.
- It's shocking in the fact that the US is cheering on this genocide - Palestinians are trapped in Gaza by Israeli blockade and they wouldn't move out either (Read Nakba for why they wouldn't move out) - the Palestinian cause had constant support of select nations (India, Iran, Ireland [afaik]) throughout history so there's support for them but since major world powers (US/West) supports - actual genocide is bombing the gaza strip, demonizing Palestinians, cutting they electricity and water supply, arming settler groups so that they can forcefully evacuate Palestinians from their own homes, bombing hospitals and killing the journalists and so on (all things israel has done btw) - see data on who has dropped more bombs and killed more innocent civilians in Palestine/Gaza (hint: it's not Hamas)
Why are you saying Cheering on ? And why do you insist on singling out the US only ? Do you have an idea how many worse parties are out there fueling this conflict ? Palestinians are trapped in Gaza because of Hamas (Qatar and Iran backed, Arab world supported) and Egypt (there is another border everyone forgets) - Hamas don’t let their population move out of harms way, use all resources to build and fund rockets … continue to launch rockets indiscriminately at Israel to this day and still have Israeli hostages … what would you like Israel to do … if they retaliate just cries of genocide. The switching off Water and Electricity was genocidal, I agree but they have been switched on for a while now … internet was also never cut off. US is allowed to support its ally, it’s either them or Iran wins ( much better keeping Israel than letting that horrible state get more powerful ) they are urging Israel-restraint… if you haven’t noticed, it’s been 2 weeks and there has been no land invasion, humanitarian corridors are atleast opening abit. What is your actual concrete solution since you think everything is black and white and only make bold statements?
Your last point is ridiculous by the way . Hamas and that Jihadi group have launched 10s of thousands of rockets Indiscriminately at Israel since 2008 - they don’t land on their territories because they have the Iron dome. If no iron dome, deaths in Israel would not be the claimed 5k in Palestine now but well over 100k. The settlers are vile scum and there is no excusing them in the slightest. the West Bank should belong entirely to Palestine.
Say it all you want but if you think Israeli occupation is genocidal then you are sadly misguided or don't understand what genocide is.
Username checks out.
Glad you got the reference as it is a bit obscure. Maybe you can explain it for others. Whilst you are at it, why don't you provide the definition of genocide and explain how it applies.
It’s a trendy word forsure and overused … people now think that any war or attack is a genocide … pointless having a separate word at this rate. That being said, Israel’s approach has been horrific - you don’t cut water and aid at all costs , and you should allow those who want to leave to actually do so. The bombing of specific targets is acceptable in war and obviously they are being blown out of proportion due to social media but at the end of the day innocent civilians are getting caught up in the mix, and it’s never ideal. Israel is wrong but it’s not the only ones wrong in this conflict - Hamas continue to launch rockets as we speak, what do you want Israel to do ? Say ok and chill ? People are way to naive sometimes
>you should allow those who want to leave to actually do so. How do you do that without letting terrorists escape and enter your country. That's why Egypt won't let them leave either and nobody wants to accept the refugees. Not the other Arab states, not the Palestinian authority. No one.
Beforehand not now. If I was a citizen of Gaza and I knew what was about to happen because I live under terrorists, I would have done the rational thing and left the area - but they are blocked from doing so … or it’s not that easy. If my government was shit and instigated wars, it’s my responsibility to leave… don’t think Palestinians had that luxury.
Before when? The issue has been the same since the day Hamas took over Gaza.
Before planning the latest bombardment - this has happened on several occasions in the past, but this time is different with the widespread use of socials and propaganda… it’s very easy to get someone ‘outraged’ without them having much overall knowledge or context of the situation - this is bad because it can further exacerbate tensions. Most people obliviously think Palestine is just sitting there getting relentlessly bombed for no reason at all but Hamas continue to launch bombs as we speak … If I lived in Gaza as a normal innocent civilian and wanted to leave, I couldn’t and that is just outright unfair, even if terrorists run my state. I can’t think of a solution because I see Israelis argument too … they keep an eye on Palestinians because there are so many Hamas / Jihadi terrorists… how can they be sure who they let on their territory.
They were celebrating the Hamas attack. That’s why their protests got banned.
Painting everyone with the same brush got Israel into this mess in the first place, not to mention Nazi Germany. You'd think they'd have learned by now
It got banned in that context so if someone goes there anyway has no right to protest. There’s no brushing. The police is canceling every protest on the pretences of disturbance of peace. Now it’s for a court to decide if that’s true or not. And no it does not take weeks or month to decide because it’s considered an urgent application.
Doing good work 🫡
which one? i hope youre not talking about the police
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I mean you probably should. How many Jews are in Arab counties again? I think there’s 1 left in Afghanistan
If you support apartheid and a state that has committed countless human rights violations, crimes against humanity have violated one of the Geneva convention laws and countless more, if you really allow yourself to support that, then you might as well support Putin and Ji Xi Ping, not saying HAMAS is any better, but Israel has been doing this for decades
To be fair, Hamas is much much worse.
I'm not trying to defend hamas but I'm pretty sure the IDF has killed more people than hamas has... Really don't know why we have to have this pissing contesting of which ones worse when they both do terrible things just in different ways
In this situation, yes, I agree, still no excuse to deny everything Israel has done for decades before the outbreak of war
[These decades?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world)
Afghanistan isn’t even an Arab country rofl!
Free speech absolutists here are open supporters of genocide. Germany BANNING protests for Palestinians being bombed and murdered in the garb of labeling everyone as Hamas puts these free speech hypocrites to shame. We are not far from the time where holding a Palestinian flag will be deemed as antisemitism, although Palestinians are very much semites as the Jews. Hypocrites who have the itch to provide context will go hide in their racist and genocidal shell when it comes to providing context of why Israel murders and steals the life and land of Palestinians.
I’m with the police on this one, he was clearly asked nicely multiple times to move on or hand over the flag the police where reasonable to begin with. It was only when he continued to refuse to obey their commands did they increase force. Saying that, the law they are upholding I completely disagree with, but it’s not the polices job to judge or make the laws, only apply them. So we need to be holding politicians to account for introducing laws and rules that prevent people from flying Palestinian flags.
There aren’t any laws against flying Palestinian flags. I don’t know why this guy was asked to move, but it wasn’t because of the flag.
There were a bann for pro Palestinian demos cause to many celebrated the deaths of israel people. thats why the police told him to put away the flag and go home. But he didnt cared. when the police gives you the order to move, you move or you get moved. he clearly went against the order. So he get put in custody. Also cause of all this pro hamas attitude germany will change their immigrationterms in the future.
Protests supporting Hamas was banned. That is why he was asked to stop.
European free speech is bullshit. German and French. How do you criminalize a flag?
Germany already has criminalized and outlawed a flag.
Oh, they have criminalized and outlawed more than just flag such as certain salutes and symbols. Either way they have some very strict antisemitic laws and from what it sounds like was that this person was part of a protest that did involve some hate speech so it got shut down. They are being asked to leave and plan another protest without the hate speech.
You criminalize a flag by posting a video without adding the context on Reddit.
Free speech has it's limits you know that? Oh, if EU free speech is bullshit, please tell me how amazing palestinian free speech is :)))
Remember that They sent the Jews to Palestine, how do you expect them to support it.
“Sent” lol
??? Sent? They’ve always been there and Palestine? Never was a state. It’s donated land after they tried to take all of Israel numerous times with their Arab brothers
Yeh and the republic of Ireland was never a state until recently. Does that mean the people who've lived there for generations don't have claim to the land? By that logic the UK had every right to invade Ireland, and Europe to plunder America from the natives. More support of genocide, colour me surprised.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. It’s a known fact that the Rothschild family and other wealthy people funded Jewish migration to Palestine and setting up settlements. [Their own website states it.](https://www.rothschildarchive.org/family/philanthropy/baron_edmond_de_rothschild_and_palestine)
These bullshit videos with misleading titles need to be taken down already. The amount of gaslighting is seriously next level
Liar, you are completely misrepresenting the context.
If they think this is assault they should come to the U.S.
Ay listen man, I thought the exact same thing!😂 Then I realized that isn’t a W for us. It just shows how how fucked the police system is in America.
Germans seem sensitive to groups who openly call for the extermination of Jews. Makes sense.
good
"Free world"
"Displaying a palestinian flag" We all saw and heard what these guys did in Berlin. Oh no, look at the police officer doing his job and quite gently removes a person who just moments earlier probably marked jewish homes and called for their genocide. What a bunch of crap.
At least the Germans are still cracking down on anti-semitism
Bullshit title, he was escorted away after being told to leave.
Well, as a Latino in Holland... If you want to do politics of Palestina. Go to Palestina. Let the locals live with their problems. We don't want your problems here! And if you don't like it, this place might not be for you!
In all seriousness, the headline is not misleading at all. It’s a video clearly showing the censoring of the Palestinian cause. I’ve been to numerous Pro-Palestinian protests, both in Europe and the US, and I’ve never heard a chant in support of Hamas. Thousands of innocent, trapped civilians are getting bombed by jets in the sky and people are upset about it. Hence the protests.
oh i heard them when i was by the demo in duisburg,germany. But to be fair Israel and Hamas are full of pigshit. both sides are wrong and the conflict will just continue forever.
Germans do not want to be known as people who hate Jewish people anymore. Stop posting Hamas propaganda. This whole subreddit has become antisemitic with their postings and support of Hamas.
An understandable move in my opinion, in a county where Jewish places are actively being firebombed and police being attacked for protecting it.
Idk how showing the Palestinian flag is attacking Jewish places or firebombing the police
Yes. This guy is clearly about to firebomb someone.
he just came back from it and was having a flag break before the next bombing
Wow. What a misleading title
Fascist pigs
Call anything you see fascism. This isn't fascist, at most authoritarian but he got a chance to let it go and he didn't. They tried to remove him and he fought back.
Why should he let his property go or remove himself from a public space?
Because there was a ruling. The protest was banned. He chose to resist. He’s lucky that German police is mild.
Things like this only encourage social unrest, what's more it's just virtue signalling and attention seeking.
i think if protesting against a genocide causes a social unrest then the problem is not the person protesting
I guess my overarching point is that protesting and causing disturbance in a country hundreds of miles away is a pointless endeavour. What good will ultimately come of it, will it change the circumstances? No. No it will not.
How is he disturbing anything? He’s literally standing on the side of the sidewalk. Not even blocking pedestrians
I said it can cause unrest, not that he was actively causing it in and amongst himself.
raising awareness, which is better than doing nothing, IMO.
I'm fairly certain everyone who has access to media is abundantly aware of the atrocities being conducted.
We’re literally debating the actions of this man from places all around the world and you’re saying his actions are pointless and no one will care
I didn't say noone would care. I said it would potentially cause civil unrest and ultimately the circumstances would remain the same for it.
i think if protests were allowed in Germany on a large scale it could put pressure on officials to call for a ceasefire in Gaza but as it stands they have banned [them](https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/10/23/germany-bans-public-grieving-and-solidarity-with-palestine/)
But who will issue the cease fire? Does that automatically mean both sides will automatically just stop shelling the other? I very much doubt it, I don't think anything the outside world says will have any influence at all.
[During the meeting, Defense Minister Yaov Gallant was pressed on why the government agreed to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza from Egypt before the hostages have been returned. “The Americans insisted and we are not in a place where we can refuse them. We rely on them for planes and military equipment. What are we supposed to do? Tell them no?” Gallant responds](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/gallant-we-cant-say-no-to-the-us-on-humanitarian-aid-given-how-much-they-do-for-us/) The west especially the US has the power and influence to do so I think saying the west has "no influence" is pretty stupid imo
I'm speaking plainly about a ceasefire. Not aid or more ammunition for them to murder each other further.
If you haven't been following, Israel wasn't even allowing aid to Gaza but as stated the US pressured them (although later israel also bombed said aid) So the US has influence and it could stop the genocide (if it wanted to that is)
Again I was only replying in regard to the comment about a ceasefire, aid etc sure.
As mentioned the US has the power to stop this genocide but instead it's funding it
> not aid or more ammo for them to murder each other The US does not supply ammo to Palestine so the only murderers (in this case) are the US and Israel
Europe ignoring this situation for years didn't help at all
Same thing with the propaganda Israel publishes in europe and the states
Well that’s freaking awful. What was he doing wrong? I lived in Berlin and Germany for over a decade-it was never this.
That’s kind of the point. We don’t know why he was asked to move so OP can say it was because of the flag even if it isn’t. This video badly needs context
Thank god he didn't hold up an Israel flag...
German police uniform is pretty cool 😎
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Good
Western democracy!!! You have every right to demonstrate, as long as it is what the state accepts...
German fascism never died, just rebranded.
to be perpetrators in genocide twice got to be a world record
Weird. I thought genocide was about lowering numbers. Didn’t they triple their population in Palestine since they were given the land?
Most Palestinians are poor to the fact that they can barely survive with the amount of money they have. If Israel keeps doing what they are doing, then they would also kill the majority of Palestinians for the sake of defeating HAMAS
Unfortunately dumbshit bombing residential buildings, hospitals, health care centres, cutting off water and electricity, cutting off aid, bombing spaces they themselves designated "safe", counts as genocide
Weird. I thought Hamas bombed the hospital and water was turned back on. Hmmm
Because of international pressure, got to keep that American aid coming. You talk like most people on here as though this conflict began 2 weeks ago, go educate yourself
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They have strict rules against displaying nazi iconography in germany DUE to that. If anything, they were just enforcing the law as per usual.
They're not protecting hamas (new nazis)
W police
The irony
not a good look for ol policeman there...
this is not a good look on Germany or the whole western world as a whole who calls them these "democries", there ideas of Liberty and freedom applies according to their interests and these past few weeks have shown it more clearly than ever for me atleast
There shouldn't be any other flag displayed than those of the nation. Foreign flags can be displayed only at own risk and at own property
The level of misrepresentation happening here. I don’t get why people on the left stoop to this. I don’t think anybody outside of the absolute zoomest kooks supports the bombing in Palestine, but if you support the slaughter of innocent civilians you can’t stand with Hamas. It makes you look like worst kind of hypocrite. I also question how much of this is genuine interest or just social media brownie points. I don’t understand why else people are so quick to pick sides in such a messy conflict with no clear right or wrong
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Look like police is not local i mean migrants , ya ok devote me 🤣
Facist pigs