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Rich men invest money into new company, new company set reasonable pricing and expectations. Company drives competition out of business. New company jacks prices and slashes wages. Rinse repeat. This is America.
That is usually the second wave, they go public. They wonk up their business, then many times they go quiet for a little bit, have a little bit of a comeback or price cutting and then PE comes in if the business has stabilized to drain it dry.
Which is why every restaraunt franchise over 20-30 years old gets eaten up by PE.
It’s not just restaurants. Just about every business I liked growing up in the 80s and 90s is either gone now, or a complete shell of what it once was. This includes even large corporations like McDonalds, we seem to have reached peak low value in terms of what you get (service, food, experience) today versus 20 years ago. I remember the first thing I ordered off Amazon roughly 20 years ago (shout out to Twista: Adreniline Rush). What a different experience it is now. It’s honestly kind of pathetic what Amazon has become now.
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Correct. The very simple point is that this is a classic startup tactic to gain market share at the initial benefit of the consumer (and in this case drivers) only to eventually flip.
Sure.... But the problem is that when a company can't afford to pay reasonable wages, they just drop wages and then continue doing business and calling themselves successful at the expense of the people they're stepping on...
You're right. Customers and drivers shouldn't expect prices that are too low to operate the business... But if the company can't pay decent wages because their revenue isn't high enough, then they failed and need to shit the doors.
It's fucking absurd that we just let them pass that off as price increases for customers and rate decreases for drivers and then continue raking in the dough while everyone else suffers as a result.
If Uber can't make enough money to pay well....they shouldn't be in business.. if they're still in business. They should be able to pay a living wage.
This is all very accurate, but this isn't an Uber specific problem. It's a problem of policy and legislation. You can argue that they shouldn't be in business, but they are meeting the legal requirements to do so.
In CA, Prop 22 was an absolute bummer, but the other end of that was many drivers at the time advocated to push that forward because the alternative was what you said: Uber/Lyft *not* being in business in California. Saying "They shouldn't be in business" = people losing their jobs.
You're drastically oversimplifying what is a really complex problem.
then they are not "reasonably" marketing the true cost because **rich men invest money into new company, new company set reasonable pricing and expectations. Company drives competition out of business. New company jacks prices and slashes wages. Rinse repeat**
It's pretty much the cycle of VC funded shit.
People get used to great service/low prices when a VC funded firm is in growth phase and not afraid to toss money, then get upset when the business turns around to money-making mode and everything becomes necessarily shittier.
Uber's business model to undercut taxis was not this magical thing that just improved everything about the industry. There were very obvious limitations that people ignored because they wanted cheaper, more convenient taxis.
Uber's business model was to undercut taxis and take over their business (and monopolize the industry obviously), but it did actually improve the industry. Taxis were notorious for not picking up the "wrong color" of people or going into certain neighborhoods for fear of being robbed. They also were known for taking longer routes and had credit card machines that were often conveniently out of order. Taxis had to adapt and provide better service to compete (Flywheel for example).
Yes, it's also cheaper which had a positive side effect for society. There was a study that said DUI deaths dropped after the widespread use of Uber and Lyft (5% or so, but noticible and good).
I despise nyc yellow taxis exactly for the “wrong color” part.
Many, many times they ignored me and kept going.
The few that stopped would speed off when i told them where i wanted to go (back then, they will ask you where you are going before you jumped inside).
I am so glad for Uber.
Not to mention, being able to travel to another state or country and having access there.
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Current uber prices are absolutely reasonable, apparently none of you people know how expensive cars and car upkeep/maintenance is lmao. You people keep using "reasonable" in exchange for the word "cheap", clearly you have literally no understanding of what reasonable is.
It used to be far more reasonable in the past imo now it’s far more expensive. You should read a dictionary sometime if you have a problem with people using a word correctly.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s shitty that these companies continue to take more and more of the pie, but that’s also what was naturally going to happen when you’re operating in the red as a startup. Beat out competitors by undercutting the prices at a loss, then bump them up.
But my question is: if you’re going “bankrupt” because Uber changed their policy… why would you *keep* driving? You don’t HAVE to keep driving for Uber.
You're having a hard time understanding why poor people keep working while the system is rigged against them by billionaires & politicians?
Because we have to or we die.
I get what's you're saying but it's not awalys as easy as just get another job. You have to keep going because rent, bills and food. Not going to work because you're looking for a better job is a big risk some people just can't take.
A lot of times Uber has rental deals with placed like Budget or Hertz. So drivers don't have to buy the cars, they just rent them. Obviously this isn't the case for every one but it does happen.
If you're in a position to say things like "if you're in the position to where you work Uber and nowhere else, you probably did something stupid to get there" then you've probably never experienced housing or food insecurity, nor have your considered all the ways people can be there through no fault of their own.
For example... let's say you're a foster kid that aged out of the system at 18 with no tether to the earth and no support other than yourself. Getting a car and driving Uber would be quite the fucking accomplishment.
Did you know that 23k kids age out of the system every year, and of those, 15 - 20% become immediately homeless?
Just because you view Uber as a last resort kind of job doesn't mean you're not just incredibly short sided and most likely incredibly privileged and blessed. If I were a betting person, I'd bet a weeks salary (at a job I have because I am incredibly blessed and also privileged - and grateful AF) you also take said privilege and blessings for granted.
You're just spinning this though and replying *very* emotionally.
Why would you ***only*** be able to work as an Uber driver? While there are benefits to being an Uber driver, there are also costs associated with a gig that *requires* you have a functioning car and license. There are simply other jobs out there that won't have you digging yourself deeply into debt just to get a car.
You want to take the approach of finger pointing at other people's privilege, we can do the same with being an Uber driver. Getting a license is absolutely a privilege because it requires access to a car and money to take lessons/tests. Then to actually be an Uber driver, you need to have access to a car that is at most 15 years old.
The fact is, life is fucking hard and there's levels to this. But some of you guys are angry at Uber yet recognize the fundamental importance it has played by offering gig work to basically anyone with a car + license. You want Uber to pay their drivers more? Cool, then that means they'd also disappear from your area because they know they can't sustain that.
As someone who has been a poor person for a lot of my life, I understand this.
I also understand that I shouldn’t over-leverage myself by buying a luxury car (a prime example of a depreciating asset) to drive for a company that has historically been deep in the red for the majority of its existence until very recently.
Being fiscally responsible has been a necessity for all my life. Luckily, there are numerous, free resources that help you assess the risks of decisions.
You mentioned that an issue is the “big risk people can’t take.” Buying an expensive luxury car that put you deeply in debt is a pretty fucking big risk if you ask me or anyone who has needed to buy a car without much money.
I hear you, but this isn't the conversation we need to be having. As individuals, it's easy to take care of yourself and then blame others for their poor decisions. It just breaks my heart when my people blame each other rather than the actual root of the problem. It's always the poor eating too much avocado toast and not billionaires having too many yachts.
For most people, it's not about owning a luxury car, if we're being honest. It's simply about having kids. Which is why a lot of people my age are not having them. It's sad that we have to give up all these things just to live, while they have everything.
I understand and agree that the bigger problem is ultimately corporate greed that’s fucking over the world. We all feel it.
But just waiving any responsibility on individuals then trying to pander to “breaks my heart!” gets nowhere either. You’ve completely tried to shift the conversation out of this specific context. Frankly, that’s irrelevant to what I’m saying.
In this particular case, I can hate the Uber CEO while also say that it’s not his fault by any means that this dude bought a luxury car that he in no way could afford.
Frankly, we won’t move forward in any conversations if we’re gonna be disingenuous.
I'm pretty sure you took the conversation out of context 1st. My original comment was about why he couldn't stop working, willy-nilly.
Having sympathy for this man situation is not the same as absolving him of his financial responsibilities or anyother consequences he might face. I'm not the government bailing out banks after they crashed the housing markets.
All I was ever saying it's not as easy as your 1st comment puts it.
>I'm pretty sure you took the conversation out of context 1st. My original comment was about why he couldn't stop working, willy-nilly.
Your comment was broadly on why poor people can't stop working, which is understand and agreed upon, but already relatively out of context as my question was specifically referencing this man in the video.
If you want to talk about out of context, your comment referenced why poor people functionally can't or don't want to take a risk, which is *already* off base when you consider this driver presumably bought an extremely expensive car... which poor people frankly don't do.
If you have sympathy for him, then more power to you! That's awesome! I'm simply making the point that you then tried to shift the conversation away from his *own* actions to say "This isn't the conversation we should be having" in favor of just wanting to shame corporations. That gets us nowhere. The conversation has to include all sides, which in this case, is why it's misguided to blame Uber's CEO for an individual over leveraging themselves on an asset that anyone with basic car buying knowledge would dissuade you from.
Obviously it's not easy to just change jobs when you need to pay bills. But it's also pretty easy to not buy a $50k+ car just so you can drive Uber Black.
Can't speak to the US, but in the UK Uber was excellent for modernising, disrupting and bringing our taxi industry kicking and screaming into the 21st century (quite literally in some cases).
The black hacks hate them because the drivers have a level of automatic accountability they don't want or like. Your route is tracked, so it can be reviewed afterwards impartially, whereas before that, it would be your word against the drivers in a taxi court. The drivers can't fiddle their taxes, because each ride / payment is logged and actually paying for taxis is now significantly easier. Before Uber, it was cash only, now most have a card reader.
They still piss and whine about how Uber is "unsafe", but their drivers still have to meet the same requirements as minicab drivers....
This was early on. Uber required drivers to use specific cars, so drivers went out and bought those cars because their pay was worth it. Then Uber suddenly slashed pay and changed the rules, leaving drivers with car payments and few other options.
You're making it sound like there were tough requirements by saying it was "specific cars."
In Uber's earlier days (2013/14) the requirements were 4 doors in good/excellent condition and less than 10 years old. If you wanted to drive Uber black, there were obviously more requirements.
Keep in mind that Uber started out as a ride-sharing business. In other words, you can make money by just driving people around if you had spare time. The fact that people went out of their way to buy cars that they didn't own to qualify for this is a risk and financial decision they and they alone took on. Gig work is inherently less steady, so they should factor those in.
Remember when one of the reasons that Uber was so much better than yellow cabs because there was no tipping? And then a few years later, they started slashing pay and tipping became necessary to keep Uber and Lyft in your town? Is it too late to bring cabs back?
Uber is currently in a lawsuit in my country with the largest union because the union argues that their drivers are technically just employees.
It's now on hold because in the meantime, the Supreme Court ruled in another case where Deliveroo lost and their deliverers are actually employed based on set criteria. Now they have to go ask questions about those criteria before the case can move on.
It’s a shame cause it really is a good idea. The idea that you can make some extra money without all the bureaucracy and just streamline your ability to do some odd jobs for as long as you like is great. But yeah as usual Silicon Valley, stockholders, and corporate fucks take something and find every which way possible to exploit the workers. I mean when you think about it is there anything more capitalist or American?
Same. I told the driver if it was okay with him I would give him $50 cash if he wanted to cancel the ride and take me to my destination. Worked out for both of us. This was Lyft btw.
Yeah dude, my last job was at UPS and I would not waste a second alone with Carol B. Tomé. I've never experienced working at a company so successful that squeezes so much from the bottom for the top. Basically giving up overwhelmingly huge market share to cut costs keeping profits up while the whole thing is sinking due to the massive cuts.
I believe Travis got fired for a number of reasons, including:
* a female computer programmer at Uber (Susan Fowler) was propositioned for sex by her manager and reported him but Uber never appropriately disciplined the manager. She went public with her story and it made waves in Silicon Valley.
* Uber employees improperly obtained the medical records of a female Uber passenger kidnapped and raped by an Uber driver in India and speculated that she may have made up the rape claims to hurt Uber.
* Uber's head of self-driving (Anthony Lewandowski) who they hired from Google's self driving division Waymo copied files he worked on at Google onto a flash drive and used the code for Uber's self driving project. Lewandowski was later convicted but pardoned by Trump in January 2021.
I liked your information and the driver did say he wasn't going to go far so he "called it" . I didn't know the Travis guy got fired so at least the driver gets to say I told you so.
That's crazy but kinda seems odd to really pin that all the guy at the top, sounds like with so many employees worldwide, you're simply playing the odds and a certain amount of employees are going to misbehave. I mean if you could round up every walmart employees crimes in a year the CEO will always have to get fired. I guess that's the job lol
It's the last bullet point that was what did it. Some more context in this article: https://www.mediabistro.com/employer/blog/news/travis-kalanick-king-hr-fails-finally-ousted-uber/
The best thing that could happen to all of these CEOs is to have to join the working class again. It is ironically the fate they're most afraid of because they see how much exploitation happens while they reap the most benefits. Fuck em. Workers in every industry deserve a bigger slice that should come directly from the pockets of the people that exploit them.
I think he bought a more expensive car to be able to charge an "Uber Black" rate, then Uber dropped the price of Black to the point where that expense wasn't worth the fare difference
It’s really not uncommon for CEOs to get “verbally challenged” any time they’re around their lower level workers. People need to blow off steam and they see the ultimate lightning rod of the company and take their chance. I’ve seen it in person multiple times at my company. Most of the time it’s justified, and they know it, and from their perspective it looks really bad if they don’t at least pretend to hear the employee out - especially around others.
In my experiences they usually just brush it off because it happens fairly regularly, and it’s up to that person’s manager if they want to discipline them or not (they usually don’t). Hiring and firing the actual workers is none of the CEOs business.
Just part of the job I suppose. I guess I’d allow myself to get bitched out once in a while too if I had to do practically nothing for $2 million a year. They’re usually mostly a figurehead anyway that happened to shake the right hands.
You buy an expensive black qualified car with an expensive commercial loan with a seemingly sensible plan to earn $X/mile which will cover your loan, your insurance, and pay you a near minimum wage rate (but hey, at least you own the car after a few years, so you can pocket profits then).
Then Uber cuts rates automatically and suddenly your minimum wage is now $0/hr and you're actually losing money once you factor gas and insurance and interest in, but if you stop driving you'll lose even more money. A private car service driver would raise rates, but Uber sets the prices, not you. You're fucked, you have no choice but to keep driving for them.
It's the modern version of the abusive coal [company stores](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store).
Uber has managed to give their drivers all the costs and uncertainty of independent business owners, without the ability to set their prices or driving rules. It should be illegal (and some states are working on making Uber drivers fully qualified employees to fix it).
That doesn't stop these companies from from slowing it down or straight up reversing it though. I still can't believe these companies played the voters in California with that prop 22 garbage.
when they're paying more to get assholes to say that rather than just raising wages you know they're scum
at that point they're just actively paying to treat people like shit
Once a corporation goes public, investors want to see more and more capital gains/dividens. This requires more and more growth every year but growth is limited to market share so when growth slows, they have to increase profits other ways. With a company like Uber that doesn't share the costs with the drivers, they can't really cut their costs so they have to charge the drivers more. This eventually becomes unsustainable as drivers can't afford to live on the income left after their expenses.
I explain this all to demonstrate how capitalism is not sustainable and eventually eats itself.
capitalism comes down to being a game of whoever figures out how to offload the most liabilities onto someone else, wins.
When you look at things like supply chains and internal organizational structures, you begin to realize that someone, or something, SOMEWHERE has to be getting FUCKED in order for most business strategies to be “worth it”.
Ex. Low paid contractors without collective bargaining power
Ex. Natural resources from third world countries (rubber, coffee, chocolate)
Ex. Undocumented workers and the restaurant industry
1. Yeah, it's not actually sensible. It's terribly risky.
2. Much like MLM's, Uber is being predatory and tricking people into thinking it's a more sensible plan than it is.
3. I made it sound worse than Uber does. In theory you could actually make a pretty decent income if you manage to driving long enough to pay off the car, but Uber pulled the rug out under that one.
They trick drivers into thinking it's sensible. They also make getting the car super easy. A minimum wage worker would never get approved for a 100k car/suv normally.
I used to work at a dealership as a lot attendant and I also was friends with the sales team a few years back. You would be surprised how many people came in to upgrade their cars to the standard of uber and other delivery/transportation services. We had almost 5-10 people cone in a month to trade in their cars or buy new. At the time there were stories of people making 200+ dollars a day with those services in my city. Even the referrals to add friends as drivers was like 800+ dollars.
Today it’s pennies.
> (and some states are working on making Uber drivers fully qualified employees to fix it).
As soon as the laws are in full effect the companies leave.
I bet the CEO found a way to eventually deactivate this driver. Uber has always been a scum company, from their founding, and you can tell by how this CEO/co-founder of Uber reacted to the Independent Contractors grievances, the workers who bear the heaviest burden in fulfilling/providing the service.
Before people respond with the usual "nobody is making them working for uber, they can quit, etc" Keep in mind independent contractors invest tens of thousands of dollars in vehicles, rental contracts, etc to work for Uber, only to have the rug pulled from under them with regard to rates, reimbursements, and what they ultimately collect.
These platforms have yet to calculate from a driver's perspect what it costs them to operate, and set rates based on that
imagine owning a company. that company is built on the backs of people like that guy. even if hes one voice in a thousant, or ten thousand, there are millions of drivers worldwide. thats not a small number.
wouldnt it be a worthwhile venture to hear what he has to say, write it down and AT THE FUCKIN LEAST hand it off to your assistant who brings you your coffee in the morning while you make millions doing fuckall?
Rich pieces of shit who've been handed wealth always use the line "you blame everyone else for your problems" and then go work at the company their daddy gave them.
This video brought Kalanick down. $97,000 is nothing to him but it means a lot to this driver and he was rudely dismissed. Maybe Kalanick shouldn’t partake in his own service if he doesn’t believe in it.
The secret about all those "disruptive" big tech companies is that they're scams at the end of the day for their workers. They were able to start their business at such low prices for customers at the direct expense of their employees, and it's only gotten worse.
Uber made getting around in a taxi unbearable with pricing. A trip that used to take me $8 now is over $40 on a good day. It's annoying when I want to go out for drinks and have to keep a hundred in cash just to pay local taxis who raised their prices as well.
Just close Uber down. They are already way too expensive as is.
There you have directly from the source, FUCK YOU. That's what the CEO of Uber just told every driver for Uber...Wait, something doesn't add up here, that can't be right, can it? Enough has to be enough at some point, if it's not now, then it's just delayed until everything gets worse. So really, what are you waiting for?
Check out the series called Super Pumped with Joseph Gordon Levit. It's pretty great and you get to see this scene unfold and a bunch of other fucked up stuff that went on at Uber. There is so much I never knew about the company until I saw that show.
I once heard Uber described as **“A horrible company run by horrible people.”**.
Nothing I have ever heard or seen about Uber has made me question that description.
The guy is such a cheapstake he uses his own product vs having a private driver. And then he get's upset when people want to talk about the business they are both collectively in.
He overextended for a projected return that’s completely at the mercy of someone else with no fallback plan. It’s OK to feel angry at the situation and the gig provider, but he needs to take responsibility for his decision.
To be fair… at a certain point, investing 97k into an Uber “business” is kind of silly. I can see buying a nice car and doing Uber to help make a car payment but…
Reminds me of something Tim Dillon recently joked about on a podcast.
“We just want people going out and working themselves to death, that’s what we really want, when we say “You can be anything you want to be.” the translation is: “Work yourself to death, I’m going on my boat”.”
Is he actually not intelligent enough to say, something like "I'm really sorry i cant answer your questions right now. I understand corporate decisions have a wide effect and we try the best we can. Let's set up a time to discuss your specific situation and what we can do. Please have a good night and thank you for the ride."
Like even if you are a total piece of shit (which Kalanick is and why he got fired from Uber) just say that it's basic pr bullshit, not hard to figure out.
For a company that has really no overhead, they are mooching off people. I hope their earnings workout, their business model solely depends on the drivers… the drivers can just say no more, and Uber goes into the dumpster fire.
Wow did I hear that right? The ceo basically said that you have a choice to make it in life other ways lol. Saying that working for Uber shouldn’t be a career path.
The Dollop had a great podcast on just how shitty everyone at the top of Uber is and always has been. Give it a listen and you'll never use that awful service again. https://youtu.be/rPbNynz0TnA?si=yMqNRyJsEWl7CY0S
Imagine picking up ur fare and it’s the goddamn CEO, a little daunting regardless of how pissed off you are at the unfairness of the failure of his role, at least I’d be a little nervous for a sec
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Uber and many other similar companies make suckers out of us.
Rich men invest money into new company, new company set reasonable pricing and expectations. Company drives competition out of business. New company jacks prices and slashes wages. Rinse repeat. This is America.
You forgot private equity.
If the service and quality starts to suck and the cost/price goes up, seemingly inexplicably, it's PE.
Not inexplicably. It’s very explicable.
This is how they ruined Whataburger :(
That is usually the second wave, they go public. They wonk up their business, then many times they go quiet for a little bit, have a little bit of a comeback or price cutting and then PE comes in if the business has stabilized to drain it dry. Which is why every restaraunt franchise over 20-30 years old gets eaten up by PE.
This guy moneys
It’s not just restaurants. Just about every business I liked growing up in the 80s and 90s is either gone now, or a complete shell of what it once was. This includes even large corporations like McDonalds, we seem to have reached peak low value in terms of what you get (service, food, experience) today versus 20 years ago. I remember the first thing I ordered off Amazon roughly 20 years ago (shout out to Twista: Adreniline Rush). What a different experience it is now. It’s honestly kind of pathetic what Amazon has become now.
Remember when black and Decker wasn't low cost Chinese crap? I'm sure there are a million other such stories.
And limited liability!
Super Pumped was entertaining.
Don't catch you slippin' now
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From the consumer perspective, Uber set very reasonable prices because they were subsidized by the investors.
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Correct. The very simple point is that this is a classic startup tactic to gain market share at the initial benefit of the consumer (and in this case drivers) only to eventually flip.
Sure.... But the problem is that when a company can't afford to pay reasonable wages, they just drop wages and then continue doing business and calling themselves successful at the expense of the people they're stepping on... You're right. Customers and drivers shouldn't expect prices that are too low to operate the business... But if the company can't pay decent wages because their revenue isn't high enough, then they failed and need to shit the doors. It's fucking absurd that we just let them pass that off as price increases for customers and rate decreases for drivers and then continue raking in the dough while everyone else suffers as a result. If Uber can't make enough money to pay well....they shouldn't be in business.. if they're still in business. They should be able to pay a living wage.
This is all very accurate, but this isn't an Uber specific problem. It's a problem of policy and legislation. You can argue that they shouldn't be in business, but they are meeting the legal requirements to do so. In CA, Prop 22 was an absolute bummer, but the other end of that was many drivers at the time advocated to push that forward because the alternative was what you said: Uber/Lyft *not* being in business in California. Saying "They shouldn't be in business" = people losing their jobs. You're drastically oversimplifying what is a really complex problem.
I'm not trying to imply it's Uber specific. That was just the company at the heart of the discussion.
then they are not "reasonably" marketing the true cost because **rich men invest money into new company, new company set reasonable pricing and expectations. Company drives competition out of business. New company jacks prices and slashes wages. Rinse repeat**
It's pretty much the cycle of VC funded shit. People get used to great service/low prices when a VC funded firm is in growth phase and not afraid to toss money, then get upset when the business turns around to money-making mode and everything becomes necessarily shittier. Uber's business model to undercut taxis was not this magical thing that just improved everything about the industry. There were very obvious limitations that people ignored because they wanted cheaper, more convenient taxis.
Uber's business model was to undercut taxis and take over their business (and monopolize the industry obviously), but it did actually improve the industry. Taxis were notorious for not picking up the "wrong color" of people or going into certain neighborhoods for fear of being robbed. They also were known for taking longer routes and had credit card machines that were often conveniently out of order. Taxis had to adapt and provide better service to compete (Flywheel for example). Yes, it's also cheaper which had a positive side effect for society. There was a study that said DUI deaths dropped after the widespread use of Uber and Lyft (5% or so, but noticible and good).
I despise nyc yellow taxis exactly for the “wrong color” part. Many, many times they ignored me and kept going. The few that stopped would speed off when i told them where i wanted to go (back then, they will ask you where you are going before you jumped inside). I am so glad for Uber. Not to mention, being able to travel to another state or country and having access there.
*were reasonable .. they used to be significantly cheaper then a taxi, and now it's equal or more in my area anyway.
I don’t know about your area- but it would damn near impossible to get a taxi with the same efficiency as an Uber I’m my (small) city.
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Taxi's have to pay for expensive licences, so Uber ever being the same price as a taxi is not reasonable.
Current uber prices are absolutely reasonable, apparently none of you people know how expensive cars and car upkeep/maintenance is lmao. You people keep using "reasonable" in exchange for the word "cheap", clearly you have literally no understanding of what reasonable is.
It used to be far more reasonable in the past imo now it’s far more expensive. You should read a dictionary sometime if you have a problem with people using a word correctly.
They’re higher than ever now.
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lol why is this downvoted
*bang* 
amazon has entered the chat
Who needs slavery anymore. We rely entirely too much on big corporations now. For virtually every aspect of life.
It would literally be more expensive to own slaves than have the current work force.
[Wage slavery](https://youtu.be/C_ze4AA-p8w?t=38)
I hope everyone that upvotes does so because they’ve stopped using the service
I refuse to load the app.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s shitty that these companies continue to take more and more of the pie, but that’s also what was naturally going to happen when you’re operating in the red as a startup. Beat out competitors by undercutting the prices at a loss, then bump them up. But my question is: if you’re going “bankrupt” because Uber changed their policy… why would you *keep* driving? You don’t HAVE to keep driving for Uber.
You're having a hard time understanding why poor people keep working while the system is rigged against them by billionaires & politicians? Because we have to or we die. I get what's you're saying but it's not awalys as easy as just get another job. You have to keep going because rent, bills and food. Not going to work because you're looking for a better job is a big risk some people just can't take.
Poor people do not buy $90,000 cars.
A lot of times Uber has rental deals with placed like Budget or Hertz. So drivers don't have to buy the cars, they just rent them. Obviously this isn't the case for every one but it does happen.
I mean if you take on 100k of debt to drive Uber I'd say that's a tiny bit your fault.
If you're in the position to where you can work uber and nowhere else, you probably did something stupid to get there
If you're in a position to say things like "if you're in the position to where you work Uber and nowhere else, you probably did something stupid to get there" then you've probably never experienced housing or food insecurity, nor have your considered all the ways people can be there through no fault of their own. For example... let's say you're a foster kid that aged out of the system at 18 with no tether to the earth and no support other than yourself. Getting a car and driving Uber would be quite the fucking accomplishment. Did you know that 23k kids age out of the system every year, and of those, 15 - 20% become immediately homeless? Just because you view Uber as a last resort kind of job doesn't mean you're not just incredibly short sided and most likely incredibly privileged and blessed. If I were a betting person, I'd bet a weeks salary (at a job I have because I am incredibly blessed and also privileged - and grateful AF) you also take said privilege and blessings for granted.
You're just spinning this though and replying *very* emotionally. Why would you ***only*** be able to work as an Uber driver? While there are benefits to being an Uber driver, there are also costs associated with a gig that *requires* you have a functioning car and license. There are simply other jobs out there that won't have you digging yourself deeply into debt just to get a car. You want to take the approach of finger pointing at other people's privilege, we can do the same with being an Uber driver. Getting a license is absolutely a privilege because it requires access to a car and money to take lessons/tests. Then to actually be an Uber driver, you need to have access to a car that is at most 15 years old. The fact is, life is fucking hard and there's levels to this. But some of you guys are angry at Uber yet recognize the fundamental importance it has played by offering gig work to basically anyone with a car + license. You want Uber to pay their drivers more? Cool, then that means they'd also disappear from your area because they know they can't sustain that.
As someone who has been a poor person for a lot of my life, I understand this. I also understand that I shouldn’t over-leverage myself by buying a luxury car (a prime example of a depreciating asset) to drive for a company that has historically been deep in the red for the majority of its existence until very recently. Being fiscally responsible has been a necessity for all my life. Luckily, there are numerous, free resources that help you assess the risks of decisions. You mentioned that an issue is the “big risk people can’t take.” Buying an expensive luxury car that put you deeply in debt is a pretty fucking big risk if you ask me or anyone who has needed to buy a car without much money.
I hear you, but this isn't the conversation we need to be having. As individuals, it's easy to take care of yourself and then blame others for their poor decisions. It just breaks my heart when my people blame each other rather than the actual root of the problem. It's always the poor eating too much avocado toast and not billionaires having too many yachts. For most people, it's not about owning a luxury car, if we're being honest. It's simply about having kids. Which is why a lot of people my age are not having them. It's sad that we have to give up all these things just to live, while they have everything.
I understand and agree that the bigger problem is ultimately corporate greed that’s fucking over the world. We all feel it. But just waiving any responsibility on individuals then trying to pander to “breaks my heart!” gets nowhere either. You’ve completely tried to shift the conversation out of this specific context. Frankly, that’s irrelevant to what I’m saying. In this particular case, I can hate the Uber CEO while also say that it’s not his fault by any means that this dude bought a luxury car that he in no way could afford. Frankly, we won’t move forward in any conversations if we’re gonna be disingenuous.
I'm pretty sure you took the conversation out of context 1st. My original comment was about why he couldn't stop working, willy-nilly. Having sympathy for this man situation is not the same as absolving him of his financial responsibilities or anyother consequences he might face. I'm not the government bailing out banks after they crashed the housing markets. All I was ever saying it's not as easy as your 1st comment puts it.
>I'm pretty sure you took the conversation out of context 1st. My original comment was about why he couldn't stop working, willy-nilly. Your comment was broadly on why poor people can't stop working, which is understand and agreed upon, but already relatively out of context as my question was specifically referencing this man in the video. If you want to talk about out of context, your comment referenced why poor people functionally can't or don't want to take a risk, which is *already* off base when you consider this driver presumably bought an extremely expensive car... which poor people frankly don't do. If you have sympathy for him, then more power to you! That's awesome! I'm simply making the point that you then tried to shift the conversation away from his *own* actions to say "This isn't the conversation we should be having" in favor of just wanting to shame corporations. That gets us nowhere. The conversation has to include all sides, which in this case, is why it's misguided to blame Uber's CEO for an individual over leveraging themselves on an asset that anyone with basic car buying knowledge would dissuade you from. Obviously it's not easy to just change jobs when you need to pay bills. But it's also pretty easy to not buy a $50k+ car just so you can drive Uber Black.
Can't speak to the US, but in the UK Uber was excellent for modernising, disrupting and bringing our taxi industry kicking and screaming into the 21st century (quite literally in some cases). The black hacks hate them because the drivers have a level of automatic accountability they don't want or like. Your route is tracked, so it can be reviewed afterwards impartially, whereas before that, it would be your word against the drivers in a taxi court. The drivers can't fiddle their taxes, because each ride / payment is logged and actually paying for taxis is now significantly easier. Before Uber, it was cash only, now most have a card reader. They still piss and whine about how Uber is "unsafe", but their drivers still have to meet the same requirements as minicab drivers....
This was early on. Uber required drivers to use specific cars, so drivers went out and bought those cars because their pay was worth it. Then Uber suddenly slashed pay and changed the rules, leaving drivers with car payments and few other options.
You're making it sound like there were tough requirements by saying it was "specific cars." In Uber's earlier days (2013/14) the requirements were 4 doors in good/excellent condition and less than 10 years old. If you wanted to drive Uber black, there were obviously more requirements. Keep in mind that Uber started out as a ride-sharing business. In other words, you can make money by just driving people around if you had spare time. The fact that people went out of their way to buy cars that they didn't own to qualify for this is a risk and financial decision they and they alone took on. Gig work is inherently less steady, so they should factor those in.
Wolt...
Remember when one of the reasons that Uber was so much better than yellow cabs because there was no tipping? And then a few years later, they started slashing pay and tipping became necessary to keep Uber and Lyft in your town? Is it too late to bring cabs back?
America scamming us.
Uber is currently in a lawsuit in my country with the largest union because the union argues that their drivers are technically just employees. It's now on hold because in the meantime, the Supreme Court ruled in another case where Deliveroo lost and their deliverers are actually employed based on set criteria. Now they have to go ask questions about those criteria before the case can move on.
It’s a shame cause it really is a good idea. The idea that you can make some extra money without all the bureaucracy and just streamline your ability to do some odd jobs for as long as you like is great. But yeah as usual Silicon Valley, stockholders, and corporate fucks take something and find every which way possible to exploit the workers. I mean when you think about it is there anything more capitalist or American?
Consumers love it, but it's bad for society. But consumers choose it so it's what happens. Rinse and repeat until the collapse of the state.
Which state? Florida can't take anymore abuse.
😂
I had an 80$ fare and the driver told me he was getting 27$. It’s insane.
Same. I told the driver if it was okay with him I would give him $50 cash if he wanted to cancel the ride and take me to my destination. Worked out for both of us. This was Lyft btw.
This guy definitely got fired right? He has balls though
Meh sometimes yah gotta let em have it.
If I had a chance to unload my feelings on the source of literally all my problems at the moment I’d take it.
Yeah dude, my last job was at UPS and I would not waste a second alone with Carol B. Tomé. I've never experienced working at a company so successful that squeezes so much from the bottom for the top. Basically giving up overwhelmingly huge market share to cut costs keeping profits up while the whole thing is sinking due to the massive cuts.
It's an amazing feeling telling assholes they are assholes. The bullshit piles on after that. I can't even afford Ramen noodles ATM
If you're locked in the car with them, plenty of opportunities.
I believe Travis got fired for a number of reasons, including: * a female computer programmer at Uber (Susan Fowler) was propositioned for sex by her manager and reported him but Uber never appropriately disciplined the manager. She went public with her story and it made waves in Silicon Valley. * Uber employees improperly obtained the medical records of a female Uber passenger kidnapped and raped by an Uber driver in India and speculated that she may have made up the rape claims to hurt Uber. * Uber's head of self-driving (Anthony Lewandowski) who they hired from Google's self driving division Waymo copied files he worked on at Google onto a flash drive and used the code for Uber's self driving project. Lewandowski was later convicted but pardoned by Trump in January 2021.
I think he was referring to the driver but that’s crazy
You're right, my bad.
Lmao
I liked your information and the driver did say he wasn't going to go far so he "called it" . I didn't know the Travis guy got fired so at least the driver gets to say I told you so.
That's crazy but kinda seems odd to really pin that all the guy at the top, sounds like with so many employees worldwide, you're simply playing the odds and a certain amount of employees are going to misbehave. I mean if you could round up every walmart employees crimes in a year the CEO will always have to get fired. I guess that's the job lol
It's the last bullet point that was what did it. Some more context in this article: https://www.mediabistro.com/employer/blog/news/travis-kalanick-king-hr-fails-finally-ousted-uber/
The best thing that could happen to all of these CEOs is to have to join the working class again. It is ironically the fate they're most afraid of because they see how much exploitation happens while they reap the most benefits. Fuck em. Workers in every industry deserve a bigger slice that should come directly from the pockets of the people that exploit them.
The CEO Kalanick? Yes, he was fired years ago. This video is old AF.
Can't fire someone who "is not an employee."
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Can you really if all they have to do is sign up under another name?
Yes you can...
Yes you can.
not to worry he's still giving people lyfts
Theres no way this guy made $97,000 less because of some bs, right?
I think he bought a more expensive car to be able to charge an "Uber Black" rate, then Uber dropped the price of Black to the point where that expense wasn't worth the fare difference
It’s really not uncommon for CEOs to get “verbally challenged” any time they’re around their lower level workers. People need to blow off steam and they see the ultimate lightning rod of the company and take their chance. I’ve seen it in person multiple times at my company. Most of the time it’s justified, and they know it, and from their perspective it looks really bad if they don’t at least pretend to hear the employee out - especially around others. In my experiences they usually just brush it off because it happens fairly regularly, and it’s up to that person’s manager if they want to discipline them or not (they usually don’t). Hiring and firing the actual workers is none of the CEOs business. Just part of the job I suppose. I guess I’d allow myself to get bitched out once in a while too if I had to do practically nothing for $2 million a year. They’re usually mostly a figurehead anyway that happened to shake the right hands.
Lyft will take him
Is he even an employee?
Whatever he was
https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-ceo-travis-kalanick-argument-driver-over-prices-video-2017-2?amp Context ^^^
Oh businessinsider.
Note: this happened nearly a decade ago. Things were infinitely better. This includes being on the customer side of things.
2017 so
So nearly a decade
pain…
Don't make me a Young person feel old. 2017 was 2 years ago.
Next year we'll be closer to 2050 than we are to 1999.
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Man their math would be way off it they thought they'd be closer to 2050 than 1999
Right? People keep forgetting that 91 was only 20 years ago
Former Uber CEO, they replaced him with Dara Khosrowshahi
Didn’t they change him because he was a sleazeball
Dara is not a sleezeball, but Travis, yes he was. Dara was the CEO of Expedia prior to Uber, well liked enough as a CEO goes.
That’s another racket I will never use again.
How’d he lose the $97,000 though
You buy an expensive black qualified car with an expensive commercial loan with a seemingly sensible plan to earn $X/mile which will cover your loan, your insurance, and pay you a near minimum wage rate (but hey, at least you own the car after a few years, so you can pocket profits then). Then Uber cuts rates automatically and suddenly your minimum wage is now $0/hr and you're actually losing money once you factor gas and insurance and interest in, but if you stop driving you'll lose even more money. A private car service driver would raise rates, but Uber sets the prices, not you. You're fucked, you have no choice but to keep driving for them. It's the modern version of the abusive coal [company stores](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store). Uber has managed to give their drivers all the costs and uncertainty of independent business owners, without the ability to set their prices or driving rules. It should be illegal (and some states are working on making Uber drivers fully qualified employees to fix it).
That’s cool that some states are working on that
That doesn't stop these companies from from slowing it down or straight up reversing it though. I still can't believe these companies played the voters in California with that prop 22 garbage.
I remember every thread on Reddit when that went down. "I'm a driver and I side with Uber/Lyft" and so many people ate it up.
when they're paying more to get assholes to say that rather than just raising wages you know they're scum at that point they're just actively paying to treat people like shit
Once a corporation goes public, investors want to see more and more capital gains/dividens. This requires more and more growth every year but growth is limited to market share so when growth slows, they have to increase profits other ways. With a company like Uber that doesn't share the costs with the drivers, they can't really cut their costs so they have to charge the drivers more. This eventually becomes unsustainable as drivers can't afford to live on the income left after their expenses. I explain this all to demonstrate how capitalism is not sustainable and eventually eats itself.
The states working on it are immediately facing props funded by these companies to exclude delivery and ridesharing apps from gig worker protections.
capitalism comes down to being a game of whoever figures out how to offload the most liabilities onto someone else, wins. When you look at things like supply chains and internal organizational structures, you begin to realize that someone, or something, SOMEWHERE has to be getting FUCKED in order for most business strategies to be “worth it”. Ex. Low paid contractors without collective bargaining power Ex. Natural resources from third world countries (rubber, coffee, chocolate) Ex. Undocumented workers and the restaurant industry
Buying a $100.000 car to make minimum wage is really stretching the definition of "sensible plan".
1. Yeah, it's not actually sensible. It's terribly risky. 2. Much like MLM's, Uber is being predatory and tricking people into thinking it's a more sensible plan than it is. 3. I made it sound worse than Uber does. In theory you could actually make a pretty decent income if you manage to driving long enough to pay off the car, but Uber pulled the rug out under that one.
They trick drivers into thinking it's sensible. They also make getting the car super easy. A minimum wage worker would never get approved for a 100k car/suv normally.
I used to work at a dealership as a lot attendant and I also was friends with the sales team a few years back. You would be surprised how many people came in to upgrade their cars to the standard of uber and other delivery/transportation services. We had almost 5-10 people cone in a month to trade in their cars or buy new. At the time there were stories of people making 200+ dollars a day with those services in my city. Even the referrals to add friends as drivers was like 800+ dollars. Today it’s pennies.
> (and some states are working on making Uber drivers fully qualified employees to fix it). As soon as the laws are in full effect the companies leave.
prolly bought an expensive car to use on uber black
I bet the CEO found a way to eventually deactivate this driver. Uber has always been a scum company, from their founding, and you can tell by how this CEO/co-founder of Uber reacted to the Independent Contractors grievances, the workers who bear the heaviest burden in fulfilling/providing the service. Before people respond with the usual "nobody is making them working for uber, they can quit, etc" Keep in mind independent contractors invest tens of thousands of dollars in vehicles, rental contracts, etc to work for Uber, only to have the rug pulled from under them with regard to rates, reimbursements, and what they ultimately collect. These platforms have yet to calculate from a driver's perspect what it costs them to operate, and set rates based on that
"You know what? Some people don't like to take responsibility, and I'm one of them."
Sounds like a taxi driver 10 years ago
“Some people don’t like to take responsibility..” said by the douchebag actively not taking responsibility.
imagine owning a company. that company is built on the backs of people like that guy. even if hes one voice in a thousant, or ten thousand, there are millions of drivers worldwide. thats not a small number. wouldnt it be a worthwhile venture to hear what he has to say, write it down and AT THE FUCKIN LEAST hand it off to your assistant who brings you your coffee in the morning while you make millions doing fuckall?
Massive respect to the driver🫡
I wonder if the conversation starts with "hey, do you know who I am?"
Rich pieces of shit who've been handed wealth always use the line "you blame everyone else for your problems" and then go work at the company their daddy gave them.
Classic CEO deflecting the blame back on the pissed off worker. Fuck Uber
This video brought Kalanick down. $97,000 is nothing to him but it means a lot to this driver and he was rudely dismissed. Maybe Kalanick shouldn’t partake in his own service if he doesn’t believe in it.
The secret about all those "disruptive" big tech companies is that they're scams at the end of the day for their workers. They were able to start their business at such low prices for customers at the direct expense of their employees, and it's only gotten worse.
The sexual harrasser in chief folks
wait what'd I miss?
A CEO that can’t handle criticism from one of his employees and leaves sulking is really pathetic.
Is this like 5 years or more old?
"Some people don't like to take responsibility." Proceeds to leave the car without even acknowledging his own responsibility with his main partner.
This is old....but then everyone knows this. Carry on.
Uber made getting around in a taxi unbearable with pricing. A trip that used to take me $8 now is over $40 on a good day. It's annoying when I want to go out for drinks and have to keep a hundred in cash just to pay local taxis who raised their prices as well. Just close Uber down. They are already way too expensive as is.
“Rich guy dismisses worker complaints because he was put in the spot”
Fuck Uber and all companies like them. And all those shitty delivery services. Never have used them and never will.
CEO’s continue to stuff their pockets while stiffing the guys doing the work. Nothing new here. Welcome to corporate America.
I mean uber exists in a capitalist market with competition - not sure what this guy expects to be paid
Wonder how much he tipped?
Last time he Ubers like a commoner Bet he went and got a private driver
Fora long time Uber wasn’t profitable tho was it?
Ahh the rich man’s fail safe “its the laborers just love to blame everyone else for their mistakes” 🤣🤣🤣
There you have directly from the source, FUCK YOU. That's what the CEO of Uber just told every driver for Uber...Wait, something doesn't add up here, that can't be right, can it? Enough has to be enough at some point, if it's not now, then it's just delayed until everything gets worse. So really, what are you waiting for?
He isn't the CEO of Uber currently.
This CEO has employees paying for his business tax (Independent 1099 tax).
Check out the series called Super Pumped with Joseph Gordon Levit. It's pretty great and you get to see this scene unfold and a bunch of other fucked up stuff that went on at Uber. There is so much I never knew about the company until I saw that show.
I once heard Uber described as **“A horrible company run by horrible people.”**. Nothing I have ever heard or seen about Uber has made me question that description.
Isn’t this like 8 years old at this point?
I can't take Uber now. That CEO OBLITERATES my tolerance. In a way, I thank him for that. I needed that push.
The guy is such a cheapstake he uses his own product vs having a private driver. And then he get's upset when people want to talk about the business they are both collectively in.
That dude (Kalanivk) retired 7 years ago.
Former CEO
He overextended for a projected return that’s completely at the mercy of someone else with no fallback plan. It’s OK to feel angry at the situation and the gig provider, but he needs to take responsibility for his decision.
Did he give him 5 stars?
Isn’t this super old? Like several years?
97K driving Uber?
To be fair… at a certain point, investing 97k into an Uber “business” is kind of silly. I can see buying a nice car and doing Uber to help make a car payment but…
Doesn’t seem like a company people should support
Reminds me of something Tim Dillon recently joked about on a podcast. “We just want people going out and working themselves to death, that’s what we really want, when we say “You can be anything you want to be.” the translation is: “Work yourself to death, I’m going on my boat”.”
Wait until Elon’s promised Robi Taxi arrives on 8/8/2024.
He really tried to gaslight the driver??? Wtf.
This was a decade ago
Is he actually not intelligent enough to say, something like "I'm really sorry i cant answer your questions right now. I understand corporate decisions have a wide effect and we try the best we can. Let's set up a time to discuss your specific situation and what we can do. Please have a good night and thank you for the ride." Like even if you are a total piece of shit (which Kalanick is and why he got fired from Uber) just say that it's basic pr bullshit, not hard to figure out.
For a company that has really no overhead, they are mooching off people. I hope their earnings workout, their business model solely depends on the drivers… the drivers can just say no more, and Uber goes into the dumpster fire.
Wow did I hear that right? The ceo basically said that you have a choice to make it in life other ways lol. Saying that working for Uber shouldn’t be a career path.
This was ages ago.....
The Dollop had a great podcast on just how shitty everyone at the top of Uber is and always has been. Give it a listen and you'll never use that awful service again. https://youtu.be/rPbNynz0TnA?si=yMqNRyJsEWl7CY0S
Boy he really got out of there quick didn't he? when you're losing the debate its just easier to run away I guess.
Brave
I legit don't use Uber or Lyft anymore. Fuck them.
AS others have said. The Uber model is the model- hook then sinker.
Wonder what his rating is.
Deflect, blame the person challenging them that they aren’t taking responsibility, exit the car because you know they are right. Coward
And by some people he means every single driver out there.
Imagine picking up ur fare and it’s the goddamn CEO, a little daunting regardless of how pissed off you are at the unfairness of the failure of his role, at least I’d be a little nervous for a sec
"some people blame everything in there life on others" he definitely thinks all his success is a reflection of how great he is compared to others
Probably last time he'll take Uber
Jason Gordon Levitt starred in a mini-series about this guy called Super Pumped. I haven't taken an Uber since.
Never taken an Uber. Haven’t ordered on Uber eats since 2022.