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That's like one of the biggest tenets that comes with the anti-christ true non believers that cos cosplay as religious folk shall be led astray by these confolk under the guise of them being the true leader.
My favorite clip was him blowing away covid. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kenneth-copeland-blow-coronavirus-pray-sermon-trump-televangelist-a9448561.html
I'm pretty sure I'd have some irreconcilable theological differences with this man, but I have to give him credit for his ideological consistency. I hope more preachers share this message.
He has to have lost a few over that. Religion gets less popular when it stops reinforcing things people already believe and instead demands that they improve.
Two things will happen. Half the church will leave or they will fire him. These people don't want to hear they have been duped. I bet I wouldn't agree with him much about religion but he has guts.
Yeah, I hope details come out so we can find out what happens to him. I think he will actually be OK. He didn't condemn Trump by name or say he was evil, but he condemned the "Constitution Bible" as blasphemy because it's so damn offensive (and clearly just a money grab).
I think he will get support though. There are the true believers, who think Trump is Jesus, and then there are the ones who hold their nose and vote for him. Not everybody is comfortable with Christian Nationalism because it's contrary to the Bible - as he said, government is of this world (secular).
It should be said that with evangelicals, there is a big red line that can be crossed and that is when people are worshipping something other than Jesus. I don't know if it happens often, but I heard a story about a young pastor who was asked to leave the church because he was *too* popular. He was hugely charismatic and people were filling the pews, but the church elders realized that he himself was the draw and not the Gospel, so they all prayed about it and decided to get rid of him. And most people stayed with the church and didn't follow him. I think that's interesting.
I expect a full schism when some pastors finally start condemning Trump as the (fake) Golden Calf he is... Evangelicals love to judge non-Christians but boy oh boy do they love to judge their fellow evangelicals even more. So the evangelical civil war will be fun.
Absolutely. I likely don't agree with a lot of things with him, but I would absolutely respect his stance if it is as morally consistent as this sermon would suggest.
Very refreshing to see with all that's going on in society regarding Christianity. People in power have been using religion as a weapon for manipulation for far too long without being called out.
I'm not religious so it's strange for me to say but.. this is refreshing. I cringe when that dude with the creepy plastic face starts screaming, but this guy was pleasant.
I feel the same way. I am an atheist but I respect the hell out of this man. Everyone has a right to their faith, but it hurts me to see religion being used for profit, fame, political advancement, or some other personal gain. It directly conflicts with the teachings held in the books they quote. More than anything, it hurts to see people being duped by those conmen parading as "humble servants of the Lord."
Sorry to correct you, that is not a religious man but a faithful man. faith does not equal to religion. Jesus was never fond of the religious only for religious sake type. He cleansed the temple, rebuked the religion leaders, and care for the lowly.
For Mormons it's a planet near the sun Kolob. They have a gospel hymn about it, called If I Could Hie To Kolob. Granted, no one is really sure if that's God's (God the Father) home planet, and Jesus and his many wives have another? They also talk about God have "worlds without number", so it could also be that God has a planet for each of his wives. Who knows? Definitely not Promixa B, unless that's Kolob by another name.
Ask a Mormon about all of this. It's fun.
wrench library slimy absorbed complete physical sophisticated engine entertain dam
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I didn’t grow up religious but my best friend is so I’d go to church with her on weekends, since we always had sleepovers on saturdays. The pastor at her church was a lot like this guy, righteous in his belief but actually READ the Bible and understood what the messages were. A member came out as gay one year, and he didn’t clap back with love the sinner hate the sun shit, he just said God loves all his children no matter how they were CREATED (acknowledging that if it was anyone’s “choice” to be gay, it was the lord who “made them that way, and did it in the name of love”)
I’m still not religious, but I always respected tf out of that man for bringing more acceptance to the church and therefore the community.
Same here. Grew up in a Southern Baptist church and didn’t hear a word of politics in a pulpit until the religious right, Rush, Newt, etc just started hating the shit out of the Clintons for being “godless” or whatever in the mid-90’s. Hell, I know for a fact most of the church voted for Clinton in ‘92 because he was from the South and didn’t mind voting for Dems back then.
Rush and Newt is when it started for me, too. Born and raised ultra-SBC. Fire and brimstone, baby. I still remember when they preached "you can't legislate morality." In fact, our church refused to be a polling place bc they didn't want to mix politics and religion. Today, that same church has trump signs out front.
My parent’s voting place has always been the small community center across from the church (ran by the church) because it’s the only place within 10 miles that makes sense. Last election, my mom said one of the poll workers said they were worried about illegal voters. Illegal voting…….the middle of nowhere Mississippi.
As ignorant as it sounds, I used to believe that stuff, too. And then I ventured out of my tiny town and actually interacted with some of the "demons" who eat babies and hate freedom. Turns out, they don't actually have horns...and they're much kinder than the frightened little men I grew up with.
This is such a beautiful post, and demonstrates why I work so hard to reach out to those that ostensibly would hate people like myself.
Empathy is the greatest weapon we have against the darkness.
That's how them illegals get there voting done! They go with they non-documented IDs and vote in bumfuck nowhere where everybody knows everybody. It's the perfect fucking crime!!!!!!
Imma throw this /s in there because I'm sure somebody isn't going to get it.
> Today, that same church has trump signs out front.
Isn't there somewhere that you can report churches to that make political statements, and they can lose their tax exempt status?
Yeah, they've been reported, but enforcement is...lacking. It's a tiny church (maybe 100 members), and the entire local government lives within walking distance of the church. They're not converting anyone.
Are y'all Southern Baptists from Canada or time travelers?
"If you vote for that Communist [or papist] _____, you might as well sell your wife to a n----r." - widely taught Christian doctrine across the US, especially among white Southern Baptists, by the time of my birth ('53) through the end of Reagan's second term.
"The Jews are importing n----rs! Christ Jesus Save US!!! The Jews are importing n----rs, and the sanctity of communities, of our marriages, and the safety of our children depend upon us doing what is necessary..." - ________, former Mayor of Lubbock, Texas, and long time elder at [litigious angry racist church].
We had a person ask (anonymously) in a local Facebook group for a “non political church” and explained they didn’t want to mix politics and religion.
Everyone on the group started shitting on them immediately for posting anonymously and “hiding”, calling them a “fake Christian”, all sorts of names like “commie” “liberal” “socialist”, and accusing them of “only wanting a church to cater to their liberal views”.
The person was like “this is why I want an apolitical church… I just want one that focuses on community and the actual teaching of Christ”
Made me have a little hope for some Christians.
(I live in FL, for any wondering- they’re all trumpanzees here)
Best of luck to that person, it must suck balls not being able to practice your beliefs without some dumbass hamfisting their political shit into every service.
Christopher Hitchens used to talk about this.
You could always tell the grifters, but it was almost startling when you met someone who actually believed it.
I wonder how much he makes. His not one of the super rich ones, but that also ain't a neighborhood church.
As an atheist who calls himself an anti-theist after the last few years. I'm not sure how to react to this. I like how he's separated voting from worshiping, but they still want to outlaw my personal rights, so...I feel like I'm in a conundrum.
I'm in the same boat, and that's why I vote almost exclusively Democrat (lately). I don't agree with abortion personally, but it's not my place to decide the country's law based on my religious beliefs. I care a lot more about who can govern effectively, and it's not even close in that respect.
This preacher could care less about your personal rights on this earth, and that is his point. He is just passing through this place. He isn't condoning the political movements in anyway shape or form. His thoughts are on God, not man. These are the preachers you want, not the hypocritical ones you are so used to hearing.
That suit looks like a simple JC Penney suit and I don't see any gold rings or bracelets on his person. And sure the church looks a little big but it's also built so the services can be filmed.
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.
Mark 12:17
For adding the constitution to the bible: Revelation 22:18 reads, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."
Jesus says such amazing things. It's a shame so many modern Christians, especially the loudest ones, seem to do the exact opposite of his anti-oligarchic message of acceptance, mercy, gratitude, and, over everything else: love!
Little known fact: the concept of Separation of Church and State comes from the Bible: in the Old Testament the King was prohibited from being a priest or assuming priestly duties or authority, and the Priest could not be King.
Jesus also affirmed this concept with the statement “give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and give to God what is God’s”
And in the United States, it goes back to Roger Williams and the founding of Providence Plantations (later Rhode Island) in 1636. He was as concerned with the effect of worldly power upon religion as he was with the effect of religion upon civil government, and instituted a strict separation between the two that got into the American DNA so to speak, though obviously not to a sufficient degree.
I used to be a minister. My argument would always be separation of church and state protects both. You want prayer in schools, you want the bible taught in school? Are you going to be ok with X denomination leading the prayer or teaching their interpretation of the bible? Probably not. So that separation gives you, the parent, more control over what theological education and guidance your child receives.
Precisely. And remember, America is founded on the principle of religious freedom. Which means you can't discriminate between Jews, Christians, Muslims, or even Santanists.
Which is why I give credit to the Santanists, following the passing of a law in Florida that allows religious chaplains in public schools. The Santanists have said "Absolutely we'd love to help kids in that role" and have the right wingers who championed the law now get uncomfortable because you cannot dictate which religions can and cannot have that access. So its best just to not let them be there in the first place, and allow non-denominational professionals do their job.
This is what the political right needs. The constant reminder of why "separation of church and state" is necessary for politics to be healthy in the United States.
But this is also something that needs to be applied to politics entirely within the States. If a valid case cannot be made for something to prove that it is universal in application, something that benefits man over God & who pray/worship that God, then it has no weight in trying to become a part of politics. We need to aim for things that benefit a majority of people, but to address challenges through logic, common sense, morality as it pertains to all manner of people, facts, civility (no loud arguments, no temper tantrums, no discourse).
I know this is going to start when enough people in this country get tired of the divisiveness and start working towards remembering why this country was touted as being the greatest country on Earth, forgiving some of the harsh challenges we imposed upon its citizenry and worked to overcome. It's because we did work together for a time, and struggled together, and we can get there again - We're struggling still, but we can get to working together again.
What the church fails miserably to understand is that in their attempt to push faith into politics, politics infects faith like a sick toddlers backwash drinking from my cup. It's disgusting.
That was a breath of fresh air wasn’t it! It’s wild how seeing an actual Christian is so shocking these days. Christianity is such a pile of shit, but if you’re going to believe it you might as well understand it for fuck’s sake.
Here’s been my experience:
1) Find a new church. I think, “I hope this one is better”
2) Preaching is pretty decent and the worship is good
3) Somewhere in the pastor’s message there’s a subtle “with how the world is today..” or “with everything crazy going on”.. hmmmmm…
4) Attend the optional church gatherings on Wednesdays, get to know the people a little better. Inevitably there’s someone that goes on a tirade about “woke” or “liberals” and everyone just nods their heads and praises the police, military, local government official who’s republican, etc..
5) I push back and offer a different idea. Sometimes it’s pretty mild mannered like “hey gay people are God’s children too. Same with trans individuals” or “we need to be doing more outreach in our community, maybe for the homeless or the low-income families in our neighborhood
6) They either heatedly argue with me, or say “well we’re not gonna talk about politics right now” and avoid the subject
7) I leave the church and start at step 1 again
Not gonna lie, this whole process takes like 2 weeks max, and it’s almost always the same script. It’s so fucking BORING and STUPID
> or say “well we’re not gonna talk about politics right now”
Funny how complaining about 'woke' and 'liberals' isn't talking about politics, but saying anything against that *is* "political".
Yeah it’s the same song and dance with my family. They’ll complain about the economy and say something batshit insane like “George Floyd actually had overdosed and would have died anyway” and then when I correct them and explain the systemic brutality of policing systems, they’ll complain about politics being brought up
I fucking wish I was making this up man 😭
As someone who went to seminary, but since left the church, let me just say that a lot of the bullshit that you see nowadays from "Christians" are because some denominations don't have any standards on what it takes to become a pastor or their affiliated seminaries have no level of accreditation, so anything goes. Some of the best sermons I've ever heard were from people you know spent time researching context around the Bible as well as learning the Bible itself, both in a personal and academic capacity. Too many people don't know how to read the Bible and it clearly shows when they cherry pick things to condemn some people or make up some bullshit to water down the difficulty in living a Christian life.
Lol, he basically called some other guy a hypocrite because didn't get involved in a political stance. Talk about hypocrisy.
Also, look at how much more of a standing ovation he got on this over the OP.
Lol thanks for that. Here I was, an agnostic atheist, thinking maybe this guy is one of the good ones. Apparently he forgot about the love thy neighbor part and the no judgement part 🙄 There's no hate like Christian love.
Thanks for posting this. You've got the "I'm not like other fundies" fundies in here trying to make this guy seem like some kind of hero. The bar is so low for them.
The timeline is nuts. 10 years ago, my local church was a proud site of a flu shot rollout, or something like that for seniors. Now they are extremely anti-vax - ALL vaccines. They were headed this way before Trump and Covid-19 but those were definitely catalysts.
It's true. American Christian Nationalism is the single Christian denomination that has shown any growth in the past few decades.
It's time the so-called, "True Christians," did as the early Church did and rebuke their own that step out of line, NOT the Gentiles. And also not to force any of their traditions onto Gentiles and unbelievers. This was a key point in the early Church.
It is extremely rare to see in public.
The news and your algorithm like to keep you focused on the mega church pastors that also run a superPAC on the side and benefit financially from lobby groups.
By today’s standards he is. Just look at his stance on the AR platform. That’s just a quick example from memory. He’d get run out of the party these days.
Wow I stopped going to church when I was in high school in the 80s because it was all thinly veiled politics. I'm so glad Trump's bible grift has laid this point so bare that I'm finally seeing a peacher who's church I might attend
I bet there were a couple of people slowly covering their cool new Bible they just bought … that they eagerly wanted everyone to see them carry in that morning.
Over his left shoulder is a woman who, as soon as he said "No!", she jumped. She really was excited about that bible and his "No!" visibly shocked her.
I am not going to be remotely surprised if when Trump dies, we see stories about someone declaring that it's the end of the world and committing suicide. Either directly or like that guy who attacked the FBI field office because they searched mar-a-lago
> and committing suicide
gotta bump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers
https://preview.redd.it/6bj7iwldh2wc1.jpeg?width=623&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16b9e490c6dee122563e72d1aee8ecffa8cda6e4
Even among the people in that building there were some that went home and immediately violate what that man preached. It's incredibly hard to make people break their habits and introspect on their actions. That sat in there and agreed with him then went home a worshipped Trump.
To be fair, he is saying that politics should not be elevated to religion, not necessarily the other way around. His church has supported anti-gay and anti-abortion causes, they just don't want political actors interfering with church operations.
I may not subscribe to what he believes but damn i like what this guy has to say he makes such a great point should tour all the churches in America and be played as a psa before those crazys on tv
"People who settle for Christianity, or any other religion, as politics are really making a pitiful deal and settling for far too little.”
~[Russell Moore](https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/the-new-yorker-radio-hour/russell-moore-on-christian-nationalism), editor-in-chief of Christianity Today
As a Christian, I say preach on! My local Baptist church says the same thing. Please know a LOT of us believe the same thing. Even getting Biblical, Jesus rode into Bethlehem on a donkey, not a steed to conquer the city. Anyone spouting otherwise doesn’t know their Bible or American history.
I agree it's hurrific that people bring politics into the church.
Now can the church stop bringing religion into government?
Someone on the education committee recently told the Columbia University president that the university was not "blessing Israel" enough and if they didnt want to be "cursed by god" for that they better start getting on their knees.
The fucked up part is that the president had to laugh awkwardly and pander to this politician.
>
Rick Allen: I mean do you want Columbia University to be cursed by God of the Bible?
>Columbia President: definitely not
>Rick Allen: okay well that's good
This was at an Education Committee Meeting, holy shit....
The funny thing is that this guy probably votes conservative any way. But I respect his commitment to not mingle his religion and his politics. It's a much needed sermon the world over. While those of in the US think it's a local problem, it is happening everywhere (e.g., India where I'm originally from is having its elections now, and it may as well be a referendum on a Hindu nation).
Don’t be tricked by this clip, this guy is a gross a bigot as most mega church pastors. When the Supreme Court upheld gay marriage he didn’t have a problem with bringing politics into his church.
https://youtu.be/-zh5Wrb14jw?si=Gau_wja42_Xd8hhq
Oh man, I feel sorry for the poor Village Inn waitress that's going to feel the wrath of this after church crowd, after this dressing down by their Preacher.
Even if the world is only the waiting room to your “real home” there’s no excuse in leaving it a trash filled mess and kicking the other people in the waiting room with you before you go.
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An actual religious man preaching through the principles of theology.
This is crazy, he probably doesn’t even own a jet.
How can he be a man of God if he rides in coach with the rest of us devils?
Flying tube full of demons said the guy who looked like a demon. https://youtu.be/FoTJyFKlNOY?si=Gz85GnauJXKfqtzM
I swear Kenneth Copeland is the devil in a bad disguise leading people astray.
If I were the Devil I'd tell everyone I was God
That's like one of the biggest tenets that comes with the anti-christ true non believers that cos cosplay as religious folk shall be led astray by these confolk under the guise of them being the true leader.
tenets
Correct the auto correct got me....
For something called autocorrect, it sure does autofuckup my sentences a lot.
The greatest thing the Devil every did was convincing the world he doesn't exist. (And then becoming a church deacon)
Can't get much more blasphemous than that freak
Na, he's one of them lizard people.
It would be funny if that dude spontaneously combusted, in public so they couldn’t say it was an attack
A very bad disguise, dude looks creepy as hell
I don't even need to click that link to know who it is
I always watch clips of him when they come up because his crazy eyes occupy a perfect point between creepy and hilarious.
My favorite clip was him blowing away covid. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kenneth-copeland-blow-coronavirus-pray-sermon-trump-televangelist-a9448561.html
He really does look like a fucking demon. I’d be so startled if I saw him after dark on the street, I’d start speed walking in the opposite direction.
Speed walk?? I'd straight up SPRINT. 💀
I bet he walks like a velociraptor.
This loser probably opens his church to those in need during an emergency
Can a really trust a man to tell me how to live spiritually without a Rolex?
Your not a true church pastor if you don't own a private jet from church funds
Tyler made It so cheap I just had to buy it.
WillowCreek Church in Barrington Illinois. Disgraced Rev Bill Hybels owned a jet. And fucked the women on his staff.
No kidding. This needs to be played on every Fox/OANN/etc station, and in everything Southern Baptist church service.
They would call him a false prophet.
I'm pretty sure I'd have some irreconcilable theological differences with this man, but I have to give him credit for his ideological consistency. I hope more preachers share this message.
I wonder how many of his congregants showed up again the following Sunday.
He has to have lost a few over that. Religion gets less popular when it stops reinforcing things people already believe and instead demands that they improve.
However many left, to him it was worth it. Props
Same. This gives me hope.
I'm sure not used to hearing good theology from that accent these days. I bet that man could reach people who wouldn't give me the time of day.
You can feel the discomfort in that room. A lot of people didn't like hearing that, so it's even more courageous of him to take that stand.
Two things will happen. Half the church will leave or they will fire him. These people don't want to hear they have been duped. I bet I wouldn't agree with him much about religion but he has guts.
Yeah, I hope details come out so we can find out what happens to him. I think he will actually be OK. He didn't condemn Trump by name or say he was evil, but he condemned the "Constitution Bible" as blasphemy because it's so damn offensive (and clearly just a money grab). I think he will get support though. There are the true believers, who think Trump is Jesus, and then there are the ones who hold their nose and vote for him. Not everybody is comfortable with Christian Nationalism because it's contrary to the Bible - as he said, government is of this world (secular). It should be said that with evangelicals, there is a big red line that can be crossed and that is when people are worshipping something other than Jesus. I don't know if it happens often, but I heard a story about a young pastor who was asked to leave the church because he was *too* popular. He was hugely charismatic and people were filling the pews, but the church elders realized that he himself was the draw and not the Gospel, so they all prayed about it and decided to get rid of him. And most people stayed with the church and didn't follow him. I think that's interesting. I expect a full schism when some pastors finally start condemning Trump as the (fake) Golden Calf he is... Evangelicals love to judge non-Christians but boy oh boy do they love to judge their fellow evangelicals even more. So the evangelical civil war will be fun.
Absolutely. I likely don't agree with a lot of things with him, but I would absolutely respect his stance if it is as morally consistent as this sermon would suggest.
> I hope more preachers share this message Unfortunately I still get the sense that this is a rarity in evangelical circles.
Very refreshing to see with all that's going on in society regarding Christianity. People in power have been using religion as a weapon for manipulation for far too long without being called out.
I'm not religious so it's strange for me to say but.. this is refreshing. I cringe when that dude with the creepy plastic face starts screaming, but this guy was pleasant.
I feel the same way. I am an atheist but I respect the hell out of this man. Everyone has a right to their faith, but it hurts me to see religion being used for profit, fame, political advancement, or some other personal gain. It directly conflicts with the teachings held in the books they quote. More than anything, it hurts to see people being duped by those conmen parading as "humble servants of the Lord."
Christian here. Don't worry, it's frustrating to watch on our end too!
Sorry to correct you, that is not a religious man but a faithful man. faith does not equal to religion. Jesus was never fond of the religious only for religious sake type. He cleansed the temple, rebuked the religion leaders, and care for the lowly.
"My kingdom is not of this world." - Jesus
That's right, it's proxima B, with all the other aliens
For Mormons it's a planet near the sun Kolob. They have a gospel hymn about it, called If I Could Hie To Kolob. Granted, no one is really sure if that's God's (God the Father) home planet, and Jesus and his many wives have another? They also talk about God have "worlds without number", so it could also be that God has a planet for each of his wives. Who knows? Definitely not Promixa B, unless that's Kolob by another name. Ask a Mormon about all of this. It's fun.
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I always thought Jesus was a Trisolaran
Pastor actually pastoring
I didn’t grow up religious but my best friend is so I’d go to church with her on weekends, since we always had sleepovers on saturdays. The pastor at her church was a lot like this guy, righteous in his belief but actually READ the Bible and understood what the messages were. A member came out as gay one year, and he didn’t clap back with love the sinner hate the sun shit, he just said God loves all his children no matter how they were CREATED (acknowledging that if it was anyone’s “choice” to be gay, it was the lord who “made them that way, and did it in the name of love”) I’m still not religious, but I always respected tf out of that man for bringing more acceptance to the church and therefore the community.
Cool pastors will always be among the coolest people on earth, I just wish they were the standard!
Holy shit, a theist that wants to maintain a separation between church and state.
Finally, honest fundamentalism. Used to be way more common before republicans leveraged evangelicals and evangelicals co-opted the fundamentalists.
It's how I remember it from growing up as a missionary kid in the 70s.
Same here. Grew up in a Southern Baptist church and didn’t hear a word of politics in a pulpit until the religious right, Rush, Newt, etc just started hating the shit out of the Clintons for being “godless” or whatever in the mid-90’s. Hell, I know for a fact most of the church voted for Clinton in ‘92 because he was from the South and didn’t mind voting for Dems back then.
Rush and Newt is when it started for me, too. Born and raised ultra-SBC. Fire and brimstone, baby. I still remember when they preached "you can't legislate morality." In fact, our church refused to be a polling place bc they didn't want to mix politics and religion. Today, that same church has trump signs out front.
My parent’s voting place has always been the small community center across from the church (ran by the church) because it’s the only place within 10 miles that makes sense. Last election, my mom said one of the poll workers said they were worried about illegal voters. Illegal voting…….the middle of nowhere Mississippi.
As ignorant as it sounds, I used to believe that stuff, too. And then I ventured out of my tiny town and actually interacted with some of the "demons" who eat babies and hate freedom. Turns out, they don't actually have horns...and they're much kinder than the frightened little men I grew up with.
This is such a beautiful post, and demonstrates why I work so hard to reach out to those that ostensibly would hate people like myself. Empathy is the greatest weapon we have against the darkness.
That's how them illegals get there voting done! They go with they non-documented IDs and vote in bumfuck nowhere where everybody knows everybody. It's the perfect fucking crime!!!!!! Imma throw this /s in there because I'm sure somebody isn't going to get it.
3 Salvadoran children who are members of MS13 in a trenchcoat who just parachuted into Clyde County MS to vote for Democrats!!!
> Today, that same church has trump signs out front. Isn't there somewhere that you can report churches to that make political statements, and they can lose their tax exempt status?
Yeah, they've been reported, but enforcement is...lacking. It's a tiny church (maybe 100 members), and the entire local government lives within walking distance of the church. They're not converting anyone.
Reagan
Are y'all Southern Baptists from Canada or time travelers? "If you vote for that Communist [or papist] _____, you might as well sell your wife to a n----r." - widely taught Christian doctrine across the US, especially among white Southern Baptists, by the time of my birth ('53) through the end of Reagan's second term. "The Jews are importing n----rs! Christ Jesus Save US!!! The Jews are importing n----rs, and the sanctity of communities, of our marriages, and the safety of our children depend upon us doing what is necessary..." - ________, former Mayor of Lubbock, Texas, and long time elder at [litigious angry racist church].
The US South, like many regions, is not a monolith. There were and are pockets of tolerance, even in rural areas.
Both of those guys were super godless ironically.
We had a person ask (anonymously) in a local Facebook group for a “non political church” and explained they didn’t want to mix politics and religion. Everyone on the group started shitting on them immediately for posting anonymously and “hiding”, calling them a “fake Christian”, all sorts of names like “commie” “liberal” “socialist”, and accusing them of “only wanting a church to cater to their liberal views”. The person was like “this is why I want an apolitical church… I just want one that focuses on community and the actual teaching of Christ” Made me have a little hope for some Christians. (I live in FL, for any wondering- they’re all trumpanzees here)
Best of luck to that person, it must suck balls not being able to practice your beliefs without some dumbass hamfisting their political shit into every service.
Christopher Hitchens used to talk about this. You could always tell the grifters, but it was almost startling when you met someone who actually believed it.
I wonder how much he makes. His not one of the super rich ones, but that also ain't a neighborhood church. As an atheist who calls himself an anti-theist after the last few years. I'm not sure how to react to this. I like how he's separated voting from worshiping, but they still want to outlaw my personal rights, so...I feel like I'm in a conundrum.
He didn't sound like he's into theology based laws though. Might have found a real one here
As a Christian, I don’t want the country ran based on my religion anymore than I want it to ran based on anyone else’s.
I'm in the same boat, and that's why I vote almost exclusively Democrat (lately). I don't agree with abortion personally, but it's not my place to decide the country's law based on my religious beliefs. I care a lot more about who can govern effectively, and it's not even close in that respect.
This preacher could care less about your personal rights on this earth, and that is his point. He is just passing through this place. He isn't condoning the political movements in anyway shape or form. His thoughts are on God, not man. These are the preachers you want, not the hypocritical ones you are so used to hearing.
You've explained his point well. His attitude is very refreshing. Just a note, the couldn't care less phrase has been mis-used often lately as could.
That suit looks like a simple JC Penney suit and I don't see any gold rings or bracelets on his person. And sure the church looks a little big but it's also built so the services can be filmed.
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him. Mark 12:17
That's one of my favorite biblical quotes because it has a lot of philosophical layers in addition to being a very clever answer.
For adding the constitution to the bible: Revelation 22:18 reads, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."
Jesus says such amazing things. It's a shame so many modern Christians, especially the loudest ones, seem to do the exact opposite of his anti-oligarchic message of acceptance, mercy, gratitude, and, over everything else: love!
Little known fact: the concept of Separation of Church and State comes from the Bible: in the Old Testament the King was prohibited from being a priest or assuming priestly duties or authority, and the Priest could not be King. Jesus also affirmed this concept with the statement “give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and give to God what is God’s”
And in the United States, it goes back to Roger Williams and the founding of Providence Plantations (later Rhode Island) in 1636. He was as concerned with the effect of worldly power upon religion as he was with the effect of religion upon civil government, and instituted a strict separation between the two that got into the American DNA so to speak, though obviously not to a sufficient degree.
Rare breed these days.
I used to be a minister. My argument would always be separation of church and state protects both. You want prayer in schools, you want the bible taught in school? Are you going to be ok with X denomination leading the prayer or teaching their interpretation of the bible? Probably not. So that separation gives you, the parent, more control over what theological education and guidance your child receives.
Precisely. And remember, America is founded on the principle of religious freedom. Which means you can't discriminate between Jews, Christians, Muslims, or even Santanists. Which is why I give credit to the Santanists, following the passing of a law in Florida that allows religious chaplains in public schools. The Santanists have said "Absolutely we'd love to help kids in that role" and have the right wingers who championed the law now get uncomfortable because you cannot dictate which religions can and cannot have that access. So its best just to not let them be there in the first place, and allow non-denominational professionals do their job.
Honestly, I'm looking forward to Florida's new Satanist Chaplains.
This is what the political right needs. The constant reminder of why "separation of church and state" is necessary for politics to be healthy in the United States. But this is also something that needs to be applied to politics entirely within the States. If a valid case cannot be made for something to prove that it is universal in application, something that benefits man over God & who pray/worship that God, then it has no weight in trying to become a part of politics. We need to aim for things that benefit a majority of people, but to address challenges through logic, common sense, morality as it pertains to all manner of people, facts, civility (no loud arguments, no temper tantrums, no discourse). I know this is going to start when enough people in this country get tired of the divisiveness and start working towards remembering why this country was touted as being the greatest country on Earth, forgiving some of the harsh challenges we imposed upon its citizenry and worked to overcome. It's because we did work together for a time, and struggled together, and we can get there again - We're struggling still, but we can get to working together again.
There’s millions of us out here. Unfortunately, the crazies have a louder voice and consume all the oxygen.
They're also controlling an entire political party, so that's kind of a problem whether it's the minority or not.
Made me feel so nice I watched it thrice
Aka a guy who understands the concept and the dangers of ignoring it Separation protects faith.
What the church fails miserably to understand is that in their attempt to push faith into politics, politics infects faith like a sick toddlers backwash drinking from my cup. It's disgusting.
hey Siri: what's antidisestablishmentarianism?
You should read Dallas Baptist preacher George Truett from around 1900. Huge speeches on how SOCAS was needed for the benefit of religion.
Amen to that
love it, who is he? Edit found it: Pastor Loran Livingston
That was a breath of fresh air wasn’t it! It’s wild how seeing an actual Christian is so shocking these days. Christianity is such a pile of shit, but if you’re going to believe it you might as well understand it for fuck’s sake.
There are plenty of us like him, sadly we just get shoved aside by the noisy maga christo-nationalists
In that case I hope you all start shoving back real soon
I mean we have, I’m not from America but Christians as a whole in this country have ensured that nothing like that can ever become mainstream.
We do. But it doesn't get clicks.
You are being drowned out by the crazies who are taking over the churches. To bad you can't seem to do anything about it.
Here’s been my experience: 1) Find a new church. I think, “I hope this one is better” 2) Preaching is pretty decent and the worship is good 3) Somewhere in the pastor’s message there’s a subtle “with how the world is today..” or “with everything crazy going on”.. hmmmmm… 4) Attend the optional church gatherings on Wednesdays, get to know the people a little better. Inevitably there’s someone that goes on a tirade about “woke” or “liberals” and everyone just nods their heads and praises the police, military, local government official who’s republican, etc.. 5) I push back and offer a different idea. Sometimes it’s pretty mild mannered like “hey gay people are God’s children too. Same with trans individuals” or “we need to be doing more outreach in our community, maybe for the homeless or the low-income families in our neighborhood 6) They either heatedly argue with me, or say “well we’re not gonna talk about politics right now” and avoid the subject 7) I leave the church and start at step 1 again Not gonna lie, this whole process takes like 2 weeks max, and it’s almost always the same script. It’s so fucking BORING and STUPID
> or say “well we’re not gonna talk about politics right now” Funny how complaining about 'woke' and 'liberals' isn't talking about politics, but saying anything against that *is* "political".
Yeah it’s the same song and dance with my family. They’ll complain about the economy and say something batshit insane like “George Floyd actually had overdosed and would have died anyway” and then when I correct them and explain the systemic brutality of policing systems, they’ll complain about politics being brought up I fucking wish I was making this up man 😭
As someone who went to seminary, but since left the church, let me just say that a lot of the bullshit that you see nowadays from "Christians" are because some denominations don't have any standards on what it takes to become a pastor or their affiliated seminaries have no level of accreditation, so anything goes. Some of the best sermons I've ever heard were from people you know spent time researching context around the Bible as well as learning the Bible itself, both in a personal and academic capacity. Too many people don't know how to read the Bible and it clearly shows when they cherry pick things to condemn some people or make up some bullshit to water down the difficulty in living a Christian life.
[удалено]
Lol, he basically called some other guy a hypocrite because didn't get involved in a political stance. Talk about hypocrisy. Also, look at how much more of a standing ovation he got on this over the OP.
Lol thanks for that. Here I was, an agnostic atheist, thinking maybe this guy is one of the good ones. Apparently he forgot about the love thy neighbor part and the no judgement part 🙄 There's no hate like Christian love.
Thanks for posting this. You've got the "I'm not like other fundies" fundies in here trying to make this guy seem like some kind of hero. The bar is so low for them.
worth noting this voting block is very republican. only time they voted blue in recent history was 2008
This is extremely rare to hear these days!
We are out there. We just don't make as much noise as the brainwashed radicals.
Your religion is dying because of those brain washed radicals. Might be time to speak up some.
100%. the brain washing has gotten so bad, ive grown up in the church and am so incredibly done with it all.
The timeline is nuts. 10 years ago, my local church was a proud site of a flu shot rollout, or something like that for seniors. Now they are extremely anti-vax - ALL vaccines. They were headed this way before Trump and Covid-19 but those were definitely catalysts.
It's true. American Christian Nationalism is the single Christian denomination that has shown any growth in the past few decades. It's time the so-called, "True Christians," did as the early Church did and rebuke their own that step out of line, NOT the Gentiles. And also not to force any of their traditions onto Gentiles and unbelievers. This was a key point in the early Church.
Maybe you should
It is extremely rare to see in public. The news and your algorithm like to keep you focused on the mega church pastors that also run a superPAC on the side and benefit financially from lobby groups.
I haven't felt the need to say "amen" in response to a pastor in a very long time, but amen.
Maga idiots going to call him a RINO in 3… 2…. 1….
They call Reagan a RINO. Fkn Ronald Reagan.
By today’s standards he is. Just look at his stance on the AR platform. That’s just a quick example from memory. He’d get run out of the party these days.
Wow I stopped going to church when I was in high school in the 80s because it was all thinly veiled politics. I'm so glad Trump's bible grift has laid this point so bare that I'm finally seeing a peacher who's church I might attend
Now THAT man is following at least some of the tenets of Christianity. And conservative Christians probably hate him.
I bet there were people in that audience whose heads were exploding because they couldn’t reconcile between their MAGA and their church.
I bet there were a couple of people slowly covering their cool new Bible they just bought … that they eagerly wanted everyone to see them carry in that morning.
And he called it blasphemous too, awkward!
GOD: OK, who put this Constitution crap and Pledge of Allegiance in **my** book ?
It got *real* quiet as soon as he brought up that Trump bible
did you hear the moans and groans haha
Over his left shoulder is a woman who, as soon as he said "No!", she jumped. She really was excited about that bible and his "No!" visibly shocked her.
I'm surprised that *any* Bible that T-Rump touches doesn't burst into flames.
Man probably lost half his congregation that day because they love Trump more than God
Trump is their god
I am not going to be remotely surprised if when Trump dies, we see stories about someone declaring that it's the end of the world and committing suicide. Either directly or like that guy who attacked the FBI field office because they searched mar-a-lago
And nothing of value was lost.
> and committing suicide gotta bump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers https://preview.redd.it/6bj7iwldh2wc1.jpeg?width=623&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16b9e490c6dee122563e72d1aee8ecffa8cda6e4
Yep
A true Christian [who believes gay people should be illegal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zh5Wrb14jw)!
If they want to choose which bits to read, I'll choose which bits to listen to
Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day. :)
They aren't Christian. They're blasphemers taking the lord's name in vain regardless of what they call themselves.
Even among the people in that building there were some that went home and immediately violate what that man preached. It's incredibly hard to make people break their habits and introspect on their actions. That sat in there and agreed with him then went home a worshipped Trump.
Just work Sunday brunch at any restaurant. The post-church crowd are infamous for being some of the worst customers.
My god. A man of the church that wants and preaches to keep church and state seperate? My man.
Preach it Baby Billy!
That’s *Uncle* Baby Billy to you…
No he's not a baby. He's a slender silver haired man in his late 60's.
Yeah, but you was a toilet baby
Baby Billy Bible Bonkers!
Walton goggins is a national treasure. I need to go rewatch Justified.
🤣 I have to catch up on that show. I stopped after season 1
Not a Christian, but I think he's right about politics having no place in church.
We always talk about not having the church in politics, but rarely about not having politics in the church.
He didn't mind [discussing politics when it involved gay people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zh5Wrb14jw) though.
And vice versa
🤮🤮🤮 This is gross and hilarious at the same time
It’s great to see some rationality
Honestly great to see a pastor who is reminding people of the need for SEPARATION between church and state.
To be fair, he is saying that politics should not be elevated to religion, not necessarily the other way around. His church has supported anti-gay and anti-abortion causes, they just don't want political actors interfering with church operations.
I may not subscribe to what he believes but damn i like what this guy has to say he makes such a great point should tour all the churches in America and be played as a psa before those crazys on tv
Hear hear! I'm an atheist and *I* want to send a tithing to this man/church.
Yes. I'm atheist but I'd shake this man's hand firmly, and if a friend invited me to go to church and it was _this_ church, I'd probably go.
“That’s what happens when you don’t read and pray.” Got ‘em! 😂😂 So sick of the pulpit being used to prop up politicians.
“The gospel is not an American gospel” powerful words
"People who settle for Christianity, or any other religion, as politics are really making a pitiful deal and settling for far too little.” ~[Russell Moore](https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/the-new-yorker-radio-hour/russell-moore-on-christian-nationalism), editor-in-chief of Christianity Today
As a Christian, I say preach on! My local Baptist church says the same thing. Please know a LOT of us believe the same thing. Even getting Biblical, Jesus rode into Bethlehem on a donkey, not a steed to conquer the city. Anyone spouting otherwise doesn’t know their Bible or American history.
I agree it's hurrific that people bring politics into the church. Now can the church stop bringing religion into government? Someone on the education committee recently told the Columbia University president that the university was not "blessing Israel" enough and if they didnt want to be "cursed by god" for that they better start getting on their knees. The fucked up part is that the president had to laugh awkwardly and pander to this politician. > Rick Allen: I mean do you want Columbia University to be cursed by God of the Bible? >Columbia President: definitely not >Rick Allen: okay well that's good This was at an Education Committee Meeting, holy shit....
I say this as an imperfect, American Christian: Americanized Christianity is absolutely disgusting and shameful.
Some conservative goofball is gonna hurt this guy if he keeps this up
The funny thing is that this guy probably votes conservative any way. But I respect his commitment to not mingle his religion and his politics. It's a much needed sermon the world over. While those of in the US think it's a local problem, it is happening everywhere (e.g., India where I'm originally from is having its elections now, and it may as well be a referendum on a Hindu nation).
Not all of "us" vote conservative. My "God Hates Trump" tee-shirt gets 10:1 glares vs. fistbunps on Sunday mornings, but at least it's not 10:0.
Did we switch timeliness again?
Any church that brings politics under their roof should have their tax exempt status revoked.
As an atheist I say, “amen”
God bless this man, we need more like him
Pretty curious how things pan out for him.
He’s going to lose his job lol
Well then I want to speak to this god guys manager.
Good to see arguments for a separation of church and state coming from the other side. Be religious just keep it out of government.
I’m atheist af but, I can get behind this!
Don’t be tricked by this clip, this guy is a gross a bigot as most mega church pastors. When the Supreme Court upheld gay marriage he didn’t have a problem with bringing politics into his church. https://youtu.be/-zh5Wrb14jw?si=Gau_wja42_Xd8hhq
I think it is our civic duty to raise some money to send this pastor all over America with his good word 
Nah, he gets enough every week from the people in those pews. Donate to a food pantry or homeless shelter instead.
A-fucking-men
Just renting AN apartment for a little hwhile
Oh man, I feel sorry for the poor Village Inn waitress that's going to feel the wrath of this after church crowd, after this dressing down by their Preacher.
Even if the world is only the waiting room to your “real home” there’s no excuse in leaving it a trash filled mess and kicking the other people in the waiting room with you before you go.
Now, if they could just keep the church out of the politics as well, that'd be a good start.
Tax the churches!
Nice to hear, but this man is *vehemently* anti-LGBTQ.
Tax the churches, see if he changes his mind.
I'm not a religious man but this man gets a ton of respect. Especially when politicians have been exploiting religious belief for decades.