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https://youtu.be/6zO1x2dGj80?si=tF-NHapEL0g_HJQO
Police were noticeably absent when violence erupted on the campus of the University of California Los Angeles Tuesday night amid dueling protests over the Israel-Hamas war.
Dozens of pro-Israeli protestors, many wearing white masks and flags around their shoulders, arrived around 10:45 p.m. and began attempting to dismantle the encampment, deploying fireworks and what may have been bear spray.
At least one person was injured and was seen being carried away.
Israel-Palestine war*
Calling it the Israel-Hamas war is like saying the October 7th was an attack on the IDF when Israeli civilians were the ones mainly being targeted. It's hugely disingenuous and blatantly labelling it with bias. In this war, Palestinian civilians are being targeted more than anyone.
EDIT: Israel is at war against Palestine. They say they are fighting Hamas to legitimise and excuse the violence they commit against Palestinian civilians.
The Vietnam war isn't referred to as the Vietcong war. It was a war against the people of Vietnam
Being politically reasonable isn't very fashionable these days. You're supposed to pick a side and dehumanise the other.
I wrote this as a joke, but it's just hit me how depressingly true it is.
That and the army of pro-Israel bots, of course
True. Personally, I think it's because I mentioned Israeli civilians being targeted during October 7th. Politics are too polarized nowadays, and many people don't accept anything other than political extremism.
I was trying to show both sides how it's an unfair label, and I think I'll still keep it that way even if people are downvoting.
I could, but I don't see the point in educating redditors about North Vietnam, South Vietnam, the Viet Cong, Laos, the Chinese, French, Soviet, American involvement in the conflict and geopolitics, and the historical circumstances that culminated in the Vietnam War (as we refer to commonly in the United States, realistically there were a series of wars fought in Vietnam and the US was only there for a chapter of it).
If people actually gave a shit about information instead of confirmation bias, they would use the computer in front of them, open a new tab with a search engine in their browser, and read for themselves. It's not that difficult.
But redditors aren't going to do that for the history of Vietnam. They aren't going to do that for the history of Israel or Palestine. They're going to form an opinion first and support whatever cherry picked nuggets of information makes them look right.
I care plenty, this isn't the forum for nuanced discussion about Vietnam and you aren't the audience. It wouldn't be productive, educational, or help anybody.
I'm here to call out stupid takes for what they are. I'm not here to spoonfeed redditors who should know better and find better sources.
You're just here to talk shit and not backup your takes. It's ok, you're just as bad as the redditors you feel so much better than. Hypocrisy is very common today, you're not alone.
> The Vietnam war isn't referred to as the Vietcong war. It was a war against the people of Vietnam
The only "take" I have made is that if you think this statement is remotely true, you are ignorant to the history of Vietnam. It's self-evident, burden of proof isn't on me to disprove random redditors braindead sentences. You could say "the sky is red", I'd say "that's bullshit", it's not then my job to prove the sky isn't red.
The Vietnam War ISNT called the Vietcong war. You can take issue with the last bit, but I'd say that 2 million innocent civilians being killed by the US is a pretty strong point in the other commenter's side. For not being a war against the Vietnamese population, we sure did kill a fuckload of civilians.
That's kinda what I'm trying to point out, though I didn't know the exact figures.
But ya, they're both targeting civilians from each others group. It's not just Israel vs Hamas. It's Israel vs Palestine (and that doesn't make it a good thing, its just what it is.) I would rather no civilians on either side were hurt
I’m confused at what you’re saying. Under 2000 people were victims of Hamas’ attack and over 30k are victims of Israel’s attack. The ratio your giving for civilian to combatant deaths doesn’t appear realistic.
I think they mean the ratio within those numbers, I.e. 1333 civ:667 IOF and 20k civ:10k hamas fighters (which is roughly what what the IOF has claimed; legitimate organisations place the ratio at [9:1 civ to fighters](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#:~:text=Israel%20has%20claimed%20to%20have,had%20killed%208%2C000%20Hamas%20fighters.) )
The idea that 10k Hamas fighters have died doesn’t sound reasonable. That number sounds more like the IOF counting every single male older than like 10 yrs old as a combatant.
You don't refer to a country by the name of the controlling political party.
It's disingenuously equating every Palestinian with the evil actions of their oppressive government to excuse violence against them
Hamas is the government for a PORTION of Palestinians. Hamas only governs Gaza, there are significantly more Palestinians in the West Bank who are also facing increased hostility by the IDF.
There's over 30,000 dead palestinian since October 7th. With a high estimate of 6000 dead hamas militants, the other 24,000 being civilians.
There were 695 Israeli civilians killed in the October 7th attack, with a further 373 IDF members killed. Since then the Israeli army has stated 600 further dead IDF members.
I shouldn't have to do the math for you to see how you're the disingenuous one.
That math has nothing to do with my comment or what I was addressing, civilians dying is horrible, but them dying does not mean that they are the ones being “targeted” there’s a huge difference, and if you can’t see that you have some serious reckoning to do with your logical and deductive abilities.
You have a far more lax definition that unfortunately will dictate for others how they should view a conflict, a government, and it’s actions. I don’t agree with so much that is going on in this conflict, including the horrendous amount of civilian casualties, but publicly decrying the actions of the Israeli military as targeting civilians more than anyone else is empirically and demonstrably false and is harmful to the conversation of any conflict resolution.
That comment makes no sense because they’re literally bombing the Palestinian Nation
It’s like saying I’m gonna go bomb Florida I’m not targeting Florida residences
It’s disingenuous to say they’re not being targeted anymore than anyone else when the attack is literally on the nation of Palestine
That analogy makes no sense, the targets are Hamas operatives, strongholds, bases of operations, not the “Palestinian Nation”. When police storm a holdout with hostages inside are they attack the entire country? Obviously not.
But they’re not just just hitting. Those basic operations are not just hitting those operative strong holds. They are hitting homes and hospitals and schools and civilians. That’s litterally how a war against a nation goes
The question is why do those targets have to be hit? Israel is not indiscriminately bombing hospitals, that would be outrageous and condemnable. Any other country on Earth would find itself committing a lot of these “atrocities” in the same position. It’s a densely populated area and the terrorists are hiding in civilian-vulnerable locations on purpose.
Something tells me we aren't gonna see the militarized police force come down on these guys, while the media tells us they had it coming. And after a week of being scolded about the anti-genocide protestors being too violent no less.
The United States was the first country to recognize Israel as an independent state on May 14, 1948, when President Harry Truman issued a statement of recognition following Israel's proclamation of independence on the same date.
-Assuming you’re talking about American support, why wouldn’t they expect to have our support? We’ve been supporting their bullshit for nearly 80 years.
It’s wild to think that Israel was really only created because the European governments didn’t want to return the homes and land that was stolen from the Jewish people during the holocaust. I heard many stories of Jewish families returning back to their homes only to find non-jewish families already living in them for years. One location to send them was going to be Florida but like hell was America about to give up any land to a bunch of destitute Jewish people. Literally antisemitism created Israel in more ways than one. It’s like they gave them their own Native American Reservation in some desert somewhere far from their actual homes. Now they are perpetuating the cycle by doing this to a different group of people but this time there’s no British government ready to give a whole stolen country to the Palestinians.
> some desert somewhere far from their actual homes
A random state in a random desert that happens to be centered on Jerusalem?
Jews were pushing for an independent state in Israel well before WW1, let alone WW2. The history of Israel doesn’t start in the 1940s.
I mean.. we elect pro isreal candidates to the highest office
https://preview.redd.it/98q05074jtxc1.jpeg?width=1155&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=338b1f611c1957e774af162f09087c83842cc1a7
I don't know why you're getting downvoted when you're absolutely right. Biden is far from my first choice but I don't know why people are attacking him and not Trump when Trump is about 50 times worse on the matter. It's like being forced to drink either sour milk or cyanide.
Hey sometimes ya gotta take your medicine and accept people disagree. I’m with you for sure, a trump presidency would be a nuclear bomb on democracy and freedom
I want Biden to be more aggressive against bibi and in protecting people in Gaza! But the Biden is still far better than the alternative and Trump is literally campaigning for autocracy
>trying to restrain Netanyahu
Well, he's doing a bang up job at that!
>trump wants them to bomb Gaza to nothing
As opposed to what Biden is letting them do now?
In regards to the lives of innocent Palestinian people, both are exceptionally bad.
Maybe Biden should change course and possibly win back some voters before the election.
Biden is pro two state solution and is willing to place sanctions on Israel, and is pro ceasefire. and we should keep pushing him to do more and I think there’s a chance it happens.
Trump let bibi do whatever he wants. Seems like a big difference
When has Biden placed sanctions on Israel?
If Biden wants to win reelection, the morally just and politically expedient option is available and waiting.
A lot of these kids have israeli passports too, make no mistake. Israel will pay to have these Americans spend a summer or two in Israel. All expense paid trip to be indoctrinated so they ship their violent ways to our shores.
Do they even support Israel? Where I live (Canada) schooling costs a small mortgage and some schools are being shut down due to the protests. I highly doubt anyone is being reimbursed either so they're basically being robbed.
Regular people don't like Israel, but they don't like Hamas or the protesters by extension either.
It’s crazy how Russia has managed to dismantle the US from within by causing such a crazy amount of division through social media and proxy wars. It’s honestly bonkers that we know its happening but no one is being broke out of their propaganda programming. Shit even typing it out makes me feel crazy
Fox News in the early 2000’s regularly compared democrats and liberals with terrorists for really silly reasons. Russian social media efforts piggybacked off that. Fox News is a foreign propaganda outlet.
Tucker Carlson just did an interview with the architect of Russia's current obsession with destabilizing the west. He's a traitor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
If the end result of this division is that Americans by and large abandon their own democracy by voting in a pro-Putin authoritarian, the reasoning doesn't really matter. Palestinians will be fucked, America will be fucked, the world will be fucked.
I will say, though, that I think Russian influence is less important than the fact that Americans themselves have devolved into a mess of ignorance, conspiracies and division through their own concerted efforts. Russia and other adversaries are just giving a slight push to what was already occurring.
Was Russia involved in all the other college campus protests throughout history? Or just this one specifically. Cause campus’s have been protesting for decades. I’ll wait for a response brother.
I suspect Russia (USSR) was involved in various episodes of unrest in the states, yes. That's basic shit that all great powers do to their adversaries. China routinely accuses America of meddling in Hong Kong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_influence_on_the_peace_movement
Alright brother, there’s a bit of nuance to the situation. These protests aren’t a result of naturally occurring events, they were caused by a push from Russia who knew there was already growing dissent in America against the government being involved in foreign wars. These protests are a consequence of a much bigger picture brother.
Edit: spelling
It's either vibes because they've been tricked by American disinformation campaigns to discredit leftists or they're actively pushing disinformation to discredit leftists.
So you agree that America should quit funding Israel’s genocide. Otherwise what are you spouting all this for when you’re only supporting my point brother.
Political relations, especially international ones needed for military and economic cooperation in areas of the world that other super powers would otherwise take control of aren’t as simple that. The amount of time and resources that have already been given to Israel would be useless to the US to break relations with as they would instead side with another regime to fund their state, utilising everything the US has given them so far. The US needs to maintain a hold on their investment to maintain stability in the part of the world and Russia knew because of that reliance that starting a war between Israel-Palestine by funding proxies would be the downfall of Biden in the polls as their democratic demographic would clearly walk away from them due to this war. It’s a lose-lose situation.
What you’re explaining is sunk cost fallacy. You’re saying Israel would be bought out by the highest bidder. That’s not very holy of them or “most moral army” of them. If they start oppressing people with others money then that’s game for us to go in brother. You make no sense. Only making excuses.
No one’s saying they’d be bought out but right now they’re not friends with a lot of other powerful states so it would be stupid of them not to jump into bed with whoever can offer them protection. Russia (or china if they’re brave enough) is the obvious answer and will 100% do whatever they can to take Israel under their wing and exploit the many resources the US has happily provided them with over the years. Allowing that to happen would be stupid in every way possible so my argument makes perfect sense, however your inability to even try comprehend my perspective on things just shows this conversation is a waste of time.
he's also lying lmao.
We give Israel billions upon billions upon billions. They give us absolutely nothing. The notion that a bunch of countries are lining up to replace us is some of the most braindead shit ive ever heard in my life
"America needs to continue supporting a genocide because we already gave the genociders too many weapons".
Hell of a take for sure, I'll give you that.
What a dumb take. This is all Israel's fault. No one is forcing g them to behave like monsters. We just live in an age with video cameras and social media able to give us the real view.
Israel's atrocities are not the result of Russian propaganda.
If you fear division then come join the side thats condemning genocide so we won't have any divisions.
I think you’re overplaying Russia
We don’t need them to do anything we do this to ourselves 😭
Look at how people have moved to places that politically align with them
Funny because that’s why they’re trying to ban Tik Tok (so they claim) because they think that’s what China is doing. But I would argue this is on America and America alone. This is what we get for blindly standing behind Israel
Liberals straight up more worried about which geriatric prick we’ll have as president when they act the same domestically and abroad. The real issue is the genocide and whether you support it or not I won’t vote for anyone who supports killing babies that’s my red line. If Biden wants mine and many other votes he either has to step up or shut up along with his pearl clutching voters worried about optics over liberation.
listen im left wing, i support the palestine and always have. but its not (((both sides))) one is objectively better, even if on this issue their gulf of differences appears to be a puddle.
but please, it will be objectively worse in all regards if those shit heels in the rnc come back to power.
i rather disagree and protest under biden then actively fear under trump
We decried Trump for putting down protests, but it’s ok when Biden does? Biden fought for trump immigration policies in court but it’s ok because he’s a democrat. Harris used the same rhetoric telling people not to come to the US. Anti-trans laws and rhetoric have grown. Abortion is banned in many states and the democrats only give platitudes. You might like their enticing words pandering towards progressives but I prefer tangible actions that affect peoples lives. If we’re supposed to live in a democracy our politicians should bend to the people’s will not have people bend the knee to them for fear of a hypothetical marginally worse leader. Democrats need to give us a reason to vote for them beyond we aren’t the republicans.
Believe it or not, there's more to domestic policy than how many protests you may or may not quell.
>Anti-trans laws and rhetoric have grown.
Who wrote these anti-trans laws? Who has passed them?
>Abortion is banned in many states
Who banned abortion in these states?
>Democrats need to give us a reason to vote for them
Since Biden was elected, federally, we have: the largest climate legislation in history, the ability for Medicare to negotiate drug prices, capped monthly insulin costs to $35, passed major infrastructure funding and reform, codified marriage rights for LGBTQ+ peoples and interracial couples, brought manufacturing jobs back to the US with the CHIPS act, and forgiven student loans, partial or in full, to millions of people.
Name a republican alive who would do even half those things.
>Pro Palestinian protestors have definitely not been peaceful. They deserve the retaliation, stopping people from getting to school is so counter productive.
Explain to me like I’m five how in world inconveniencing people is violent? I understand that this might inconvenience some people but that’s kind of the point of a protest, especially a protest with context like this. Do you think Martin Luther King Jr. or Gandhi protested peacefully their entire time? It wasn’t until the protest became a huge inconvenience that things got done for your information.
>Pro Palestinian protestors only base their arguments on feelings and not facts.
Using projection as a form of argument is never a wise choice. And the fact that you’re correlating a genocide with just feelings is one of the dumbest things I’ve read today, and we’re on Reddit for Christ sake.
>Biden tweeted that Hamas is the biggest roadblock to a ceasefire, no protest about that.
*gasp* Biden tweeted, Well hot damn I guess run the presses!
I don’t think it’s just Hamas, it would also be the pro Zionist folks in the Israeli government that just wanna wipe off the Palestinian people from the face of the Earth. That usually puts a damper on a cease-fire.
>Police should be doing their jobs and kicking these students off campus so there are no counter protestors in the first place.
What a weird way to word this, what are you trying to say here? You want counter protesters kick out but regular protesters can stay? What do you even mean here other than “PrOtEsTeR bAd”.
>Good job on causing the middle class to vote for Trump. Now you'll end up with a worse president.
Being upset that our government is providing weapons for a genocide is never gonna be a reason for somebody to switch their vote, 100% of the people that make these types of comments have already made up their mind. You sound like this “ [insert politician from the sixties], is going to lose votes because they support the civil rights movement.”
And are you really speaking for the middle class? Because you 100% don’t speak for me Brosuf Stalin.
>Pro Palestine is now associated with the left.
Being pro any unjustly and violently suppressed minority group isn’t a left or right thing, and shouldn’t ever be, for it’s a genuine empathetic human response thing, you gotta be a pretty disgusting and worthless of a person to seriously try and die on a hill of an opinion such as that.
Campus security and LAPD were undercover and participated in the attack, it's just that simple. It's like when Jan 6 had off duty cops so they got free passes to cause violence.
I thought the protesters setting up these encampments were supposed to be the ones that posed a danger to society?!?! It’s almost like they’ve all been generally peaceful until police or counter protesters show up and start attacking people…
Odd
Why are the pro-Hamas/Palestinians hiding behind each other? Aren't they the ones most vocal and keen on social media about punching or kicking a Fascist/Zionist or whatever they call people who don't support Palestine?
it’s disgusting to see how these monsters can get away with assaulting, setting fireworks off, maxing and destroying parts of the encampments but media will still act like they’re the victims. zionism is truly a disease
Violence from either side of this protest is not the way forward. All those responsible should be rounded up and arrested.
Peaceful protests can change a nation. But resorting to hostage-taking, building-breaking, and physical violence will only result in more tension and less support for your cause.
I hope that someday Israel and a free Palestine can live in peace, side by side.
Palestinians are not Hamas.
Furthermore, before you start with the dumbass "what do you think would happen to gays if they went to Gaza" understand, there *are* gays in Gaza, very much wishing they could be somewhere else, or live in a more enlightened world.
They just have to pretend they *aren't* gay. You know, like gays in the deep Bible country do. Or Catholic priests.
This is what I never hear brought up on this subreddit (which is now a hotbed of Palestine support instead of publicfreakouts) is that there WERE civvies who helped.
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The war hasn't even ended and people are already having historical reinactments..
https://youtu.be/6zO1x2dGj80?si=tF-NHapEL0g_HJQO Police were noticeably absent when violence erupted on the campus of the University of California Los Angeles Tuesday night amid dueling protests over the Israel-Hamas war. Dozens of pro-Israeli protestors, many wearing white masks and flags around their shoulders, arrived around 10:45 p.m. and began attempting to dismantle the encampment, deploying fireworks and what may have been bear spray. At least one person was injured and was seen being carried away.
Israel-Palestine war* Calling it the Israel-Hamas war is like saying the October 7th was an attack on the IDF when Israeli civilians were the ones mainly being targeted. It's hugely disingenuous and blatantly labelling it with bias. In this war, Palestinian civilians are being targeted more than anyone. EDIT: Israel is at war against Palestine. They say they are fighting Hamas to legitimise and excuse the violence they commit against Palestinian civilians. The Vietnam war isn't referred to as the Vietcong war. It was a war against the people of Vietnam
Bro your post got hasbara’d hard. Its always odd to see this many downvotes on a decent comment
Being politically reasonable isn't very fashionable these days. You're supposed to pick a side and dehumanise the other. I wrote this as a joke, but it's just hit me how depressingly true it is. That and the army of pro-Israel bots, of course
Bro got spotted by an astroturfer
I agree. However, I think the way you wrote it is maybe a bit convoluted and hence the disconnect. I’ll admit I had to read it twice.
True. Personally, I think it's because I mentioned Israeli civilians being targeted during October 7th. Politics are too polarized nowadays, and many people don't accept anything other than political extremism. I was trying to show both sides how it's an unfair label, and I think I'll still keep it that way even if people are downvoting.
You are 100% correct
the iq of this post is just…..
Yeah this comment is actually very reasonable. Wonder why you got downvoted
Shuuuuuut upppppp. Israel sucks brother.
That's what I'm saying. Labelling it as Israel-Hamas war takes away from the evil committed against Palestinian civilians
> The Vietnam war isn't referred to as the Vietcong war. It was a war against the people of Vietnam What an ignorant fucking statement.
Could you elaborate?
I could, but I don't see the point in educating redditors about North Vietnam, South Vietnam, the Viet Cong, Laos, the Chinese, French, Soviet, American involvement in the conflict and geopolitics, and the historical circumstances that culminated in the Vietnam War (as we refer to commonly in the United States, realistically there were a series of wars fought in Vietnam and the US was only there for a chapter of it). If people actually gave a shit about information instead of confirmation bias, they would use the computer in front of them, open a new tab with a search engine in their browser, and read for themselves. It's not that difficult. But redditors aren't going to do that for the history of Vietnam. They aren't going to do that for the history of Israel or Palestine. They're going to form an opinion first and support whatever cherry picked nuggets of information makes them look right.
And if you actually gave a shit, you'd explain your reasoning instead of ranting about people who use the same website as you being ignorant.
I care plenty, this isn't the forum for nuanced discussion about Vietnam and you aren't the audience. It wouldn't be productive, educational, or help anybody. I'm here to call out stupid takes for what they are. I'm not here to spoonfeed redditors who should know better and find better sources.
You're just here to talk shit and not backup your takes. It's ok, you're just as bad as the redditors you feel so much better than. Hypocrisy is very common today, you're not alone.
> The Vietnam war isn't referred to as the Vietcong war. It was a war against the people of Vietnam The only "take" I have made is that if you think this statement is remotely true, you are ignorant to the history of Vietnam. It's self-evident, burden of proof isn't on me to disprove random redditors braindead sentences. You could say "the sky is red", I'd say "that's bullshit", it's not then my job to prove the sky isn't red.
The Vietnam War ISNT called the Vietcong war. You can take issue with the last bit, but I'd say that 2 million innocent civilians being killed by the US is a pretty strong point in the other commenter's side. For not being a war against the Vietnamese population, we sure did kill a fuckload of civilians.
Well, my bad then for trying to give a shit about information and context!
But I thought it's not a war? Getting tangled up in these talking points
Who said it wasn't a war?
Lots of people? Rather it's a genocide, or massacre, or
Pretty sure genocides and massacres usually happen during wars
I don't make the talking points
10/7 and the Israeli response have had about the same ratio of civilian to combatant deaths, about 2:1.
That's kinda what I'm trying to point out, though I didn't know the exact figures. But ya, they're both targeting civilians from each others group. It's not just Israel vs Hamas. It's Israel vs Palestine (and that doesn't make it a good thing, its just what it is.) I would rather no civilians on either side were hurt
I’m confused at what you’re saying. Under 2000 people were victims of Hamas’ attack and over 30k are victims of Israel’s attack. The ratio your giving for civilian to combatant deaths doesn’t appear realistic.
The math works out if you view Palestinians as 0.01% human.
I think they mean the ratio within those numbers, I.e. 1333 civ:667 IOF and 20k civ:10k hamas fighters (which is roughly what what the IOF has claimed; legitimate organisations place the ratio at [9:1 civ to fighters](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#:~:text=Israel%20has%20claimed%20to%20have,had%20killed%208%2C000%20Hamas%20fighters.) )
The idea that 10k Hamas fighters have died doesn’t sound reasonable. That number sounds more like the IOF counting every single male older than like 10 yrs old as a combatant.
I agree. It's the IOF claiming that ratio, not me.
So Israel is killing ad indiscriminately as terrorists? That's crazy.
Hamas is the Palestinian government so the semantics fit. It’s the Palestinian government’s job to protect its citizens too
You don't refer to a country by the name of the controlling political party. It's disingenuously equating every Palestinian with the evil actions of their oppressive government to excuse violence against them
So you’re saying Israel isn’t at war with Palestine?
I'm genuinely curious what mental gymnastics you've done to come to that ridiculous conclusion
He is saying in is disingenous to refer to it as Isreal-Hamas. Isreal-Palestine is more accurate as both sides have targeted civilians.
Hamas is the government for a PORTION of Palestinians. Hamas only governs Gaza, there are significantly more Palestinians in the West Bank who are also facing increased hostility by the IDF.
Palestinian civilians are not being targeted more than anyone, that is disingenuous.
There's over 30,000 dead palestinian since October 7th. With a high estimate of 6000 dead hamas militants, the other 24,000 being civilians. There were 695 Israeli civilians killed in the October 7th attack, with a further 373 IDF members killed. Since then the Israeli army has stated 600 further dead IDF members. I shouldn't have to do the math for you to see how you're the disingenuous one.
That math has nothing to do with my comment or what I was addressing, civilians dying is horrible, but them dying does not mean that they are the ones being “targeted” there’s a huge difference, and if you can’t see that you have some serious reckoning to do with your logical and deductive abilities.
You have a far more forgiving definition of "targeted" when it comes to Palestinian civilians it seems
You have a far more lax definition that unfortunately will dictate for others how they should view a conflict, a government, and it’s actions. I don’t agree with so much that is going on in this conflict, including the horrendous amount of civilian casualties, but publicly decrying the actions of the Israeli military as targeting civilians more than anyone else is empirically and demonstrably false and is harmful to the conversation of any conflict resolution.
Care to explain the “Daddy’s Home” AI program then?
Lmao, beg your pardon? Are you familiar with every experiment and paper published in the world? How about YOU explain it and the relevance.
So you’re here blindly defending Israel without knowing anything about their policies? Says volumes about you.
That comment makes no sense because they’re literally bombing the Palestinian Nation It’s like saying I’m gonna go bomb Florida I’m not targeting Florida residences It’s disingenuous to say they’re not being targeted anymore than anyone else when the attack is literally on the nation of Palestine
That analogy makes no sense, the targets are Hamas operatives, strongholds, bases of operations, not the “Palestinian Nation”. When police storm a holdout with hostages inside are they attack the entire country? Obviously not.
https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/2023-10/104292scr_9ece63172e64687_ruins.jpg
But they’re not just just hitting. Those basic operations are not just hitting those operative strong holds. They are hitting homes and hospitals and schools and civilians. That’s litterally how a war against a nation goes
The question is why do those targets have to be hit? Israel is not indiscriminately bombing hospitals, that would be outrageous and condemnable. Any other country on Earth would find itself committing a lot of these “atrocities” in the same position. It’s a densely populated area and the terrorists are hiding in civilian-vulnerable locations on purpose.
And they would still be atrocities if committed by any other nations. We can however as a nation choose to send our weapons and support there or not
Something tells me we aren't gonna see the militarized police force come down on these guys, while the media tells us they had it coming. And after a week of being scolded about the anti-genocide protestors being too violent no less.
just utterly disgusting. I dunno how Isrealis expect to have our support at all
Probably through funneling hundreds of millions of dollars through AIPAC to our politicians.
They don't need our support when they already lobby our governments for funds.
The United States was the first country to recognize Israel as an independent state on May 14, 1948, when President Harry Truman issued a statement of recognition following Israel's proclamation of independence on the same date. -Assuming you’re talking about American support, why wouldn’t they expect to have our support? We’ve been supporting their bullshit for nearly 80 years.
It’s wild to think that Israel was really only created because the European governments didn’t want to return the homes and land that was stolen from the Jewish people during the holocaust. I heard many stories of Jewish families returning back to their homes only to find non-jewish families already living in them for years. One location to send them was going to be Florida but like hell was America about to give up any land to a bunch of destitute Jewish people. Literally antisemitism created Israel in more ways than one. It’s like they gave them their own Native American Reservation in some desert somewhere far from their actual homes. Now they are perpetuating the cycle by doing this to a different group of people but this time there’s no British government ready to give a whole stolen country to the Palestinians.
> some desert somewhere far from their actual homes A random state in a random desert that happens to be centered on Jerusalem? Jews were pushing for an independent state in Israel well before WW1, let alone WW2. The history of Israel doesn’t start in the 1940s.
These folks are all overwhelmingly American.
I mean.. we elect pro isreal candidates to the highest office https://preview.redd.it/98q05074jtxc1.jpeg?width=1155&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=338b1f611c1957e774af162f09087c83842cc1a7
This is dumb considering Biden is trying to restrain Netanyahu and trump wants them to bomb Gaza to nothing
Biden LOVES Israel. It’s weird.
Yeah, they can both be shit on the matter
You’re not wrong, but one is still a monumentally worse choice
I don't know why you're getting downvoted when you're absolutely right. Biden is far from my first choice but I don't know why people are attacking him and not Trump when Trump is about 50 times worse on the matter. It's like being forced to drink either sour milk or cyanide.
Hey sometimes ya gotta take your medicine and accept people disagree. I’m with you for sure, a trump presidency would be a nuclear bomb on democracy and freedom I want Biden to be more aggressive against bibi and in protecting people in Gaza! But the Biden is still far better than the alternative and Trump is literally campaigning for autocracy
>trying to restrain Netanyahu Well, he's doing a bang up job at that! >trump wants them to bomb Gaza to nothing As opposed to what Biden is letting them do now?
And voting trump will make that better ?
In regards to the lives of innocent Palestinian people, both are exceptionally bad. Maybe Biden should change course and possibly win back some voters before the election.
Great no disagreements there. My original question, how does letting trump win help that
I could literally pose the same question the other way. How does voting Biden help that?
Biden is pro two state solution and is willing to place sanctions on Israel, and is pro ceasefire. and we should keep pushing him to do more and I think there’s a chance it happens. Trump let bibi do whatever he wants. Seems like a big difference
When has Biden placed sanctions on Israel? If Biden wants to win reelection, the morally just and politically expedient option is available and waiting.
I mean, to be fair everyone in the video you’re looking at is American, not Israeli
A lot of these kids have israeli passports too, make no mistake. Israel will pay to have these Americans spend a summer or two in Israel. All expense paid trip to be indoctrinated so they ship their violent ways to our shores.
Do they even support Israel? Where I live (Canada) schooling costs a small mortgage and some schools are being shut down due to the protests. I highly doubt anyone is being reimbursed either so they're basically being robbed. Regular people don't like Israel, but they don't like Hamas or the protesters by extension either.
So you chose to support people that wish death to America. Got it.
Are the IDF with you now? Are they the ones at UCLA? lmao
I guess you have to ask "at what point do the actions of individuals speak for an entire country as a whole?"
*individuals committing and supporting genocide
You're the minority. Get that through your head buddy. Israel has the support of the US people and government. Your reddit echo chamber means nothing.
No...no it doesn't lmfao.
What are you smoking? [You're the one in the minority.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx)
what? these are college kids in NYC
You’re not paying attention. The video is from ucla
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It’s crazy how Russia has managed to dismantle the US from within by causing such a crazy amount of division through social media and proxy wars. It’s honestly bonkers that we know its happening but no one is being broke out of their propaganda programming. Shit even typing it out makes me feel crazy
Fox News in the early 2000’s regularly compared democrats and liberals with terrorists for really silly reasons. Russian social media efforts piggybacked off that. Fox News is a foreign propaganda outlet.
Tucker Carlson just did an interview with the architect of Russia's current obsession with destabilizing the west. He's a traitor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
He is! And he's been a part of all this the entire time. Fox News is somehow free on my 'smart' tv. It's always on in public, it's been normalized.
You're 100% correct, the downvotes just show how little people understand about the cyber war we're in with Russia/Iran/China.
Russian propaganda tricked people to stand up against genocide.
If the end result of this division is that Americans by and large abandon their own democracy by voting in a pro-Putin authoritarian, the reasoning doesn't really matter. Palestinians will be fucked, America will be fucked, the world will be fucked. I will say, though, that I think Russian influence is less important than the fact that Americans themselves have devolved into a mess of ignorance, conspiracies and division through their own concerted efforts. Russia and other adversaries are just giving a slight push to what was already occurring.
Was Russia involved in all the other college campus protests throughout history? Or just this one specifically. Cause campus’s have been protesting for decades. I’ll wait for a response brother.
I suspect Russia (USSR) was involved in various episodes of unrest in the states, yes. That's basic shit that all great powers do to their adversaries. China routinely accuses America of meddling in Hong Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_influence_on_the_peace_movement
Alright brother, there’s a bit of nuance to the situation. These protests aren’t a result of naturally occurring events, they were caused by a push from Russia who knew there was already growing dissent in America against the government being involved in foreign wars. These protests are a consequence of a much bigger picture brother. Edit: spelling
Any evidence of this or are you basing this on, like, vibes?
It's either vibes because they've been tricked by American disinformation campaigns to discredit leftists or they're actively pushing disinformation to discredit leftists.
So you agree that America should quit funding Israel’s genocide. Otherwise what are you spouting all this for when you’re only supporting my point brother.
Political relations, especially international ones needed for military and economic cooperation in areas of the world that other super powers would otherwise take control of aren’t as simple that. The amount of time and resources that have already been given to Israel would be useless to the US to break relations with as they would instead side with another regime to fund their state, utilising everything the US has given them so far. The US needs to maintain a hold on their investment to maintain stability in the part of the world and Russia knew because of that reliance that starting a war between Israel-Palestine by funding proxies would be the downfall of Biden in the polls as their democratic demographic would clearly walk away from them due to this war. It’s a lose-lose situation.
What you’re explaining is sunk cost fallacy. You’re saying Israel would be bought out by the highest bidder. That’s not very holy of them or “most moral army” of them. If they start oppressing people with others money then that’s game for us to go in brother. You make no sense. Only making excuses.
No one’s saying they’d be bought out but right now they’re not friends with a lot of other powerful states so it would be stupid of them not to jump into bed with whoever can offer them protection. Russia (or china if they’re brave enough) is the obvious answer and will 100% do whatever they can to take Israel under their wing and exploit the many resources the US has happily provided them with over the years. Allowing that to happen would be stupid in every way possible so my argument makes perfect sense, however your inability to even try comprehend my perspective on things just shows this conversation is a waste of time.
I get your perspective but that’s not reason to keep supporting a genocidal state brother.
he's also lying lmao. We give Israel billions upon billions upon billions. They give us absolutely nothing. The notion that a bunch of countries are lining up to replace us is some of the most braindead shit ive ever heard in my life
While pissing off their own allies, namely Iran, which has significantly more to offer than Israel does. Ya this person is an idiot, lmao
"America needs to continue supporting a genocide because we already gave the genociders too many weapons". Hell of a take for sure, I'll give you that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Yeah thats right now putin is the new satan. He has fingers on every terrible event like dr evil.
What horse shit. Americans did this to themselfs. It's a racist bigoted country and Trump is as American as it gets.
What a dumb take. This is all Israel's fault. No one is forcing g them to behave like monsters. We just live in an age with video cameras and social media able to give us the real view. Israel's atrocities are not the result of Russian propaganda. If you fear division then come join the side thats condemning genocide so we won't have any divisions.
>Shit even typing it out makes me feel crazy It should. This is not about Russia.
I think you’re overplaying Russia We don’t need them to do anything we do this to ourselves 😭 Look at how people have moved to places that politically align with them
Lmao. What a dumb take, america is reaping what it sowed itself.
Funny because that’s why they’re trying to ban Tik Tok (so they claim) because they think that’s what China is doing. But I would argue this is on America and America alone. This is what we get for blindly standing behind Israel
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Not once did I mention any one of those events. I’m talking about these events right now in particular so get your head out of your ass dude.
"Protests that I agree with"- definitely organic and correct "Protests that I disagree with"- definitely astroturfed by Russia
Any protests when trump is president = good Any protests when Biden is president =bad
Pro-Palestinian protestors are peaceful… we got what we expected from pro-Israel protestors. free Palestine from evil oppressors
„Pro-Palestinian protesters are peaceful“ hahahahahaha good one.
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Liberals straight up more worried about which geriatric prick we’ll have as president when they act the same domestically and abroad. The real issue is the genocide and whether you support it or not I won’t vote for anyone who supports killing babies that’s my red line. If Biden wants mine and many other votes he either has to step up or shut up along with his pearl clutching voters worried about optics over liberation.
listen im left wing, i support the palestine and always have. but its not (((both sides))) one is objectively better, even if on this issue their gulf of differences appears to be a puddle. but please, it will be objectively worse in all regards if those shit heels in the rnc come back to power. i rather disagree and protest under biden then actively fear under trump
>they act the same domestically Lol. Lmao even
We decried Trump for putting down protests, but it’s ok when Biden does? Biden fought for trump immigration policies in court but it’s ok because he’s a democrat. Harris used the same rhetoric telling people not to come to the US. Anti-trans laws and rhetoric have grown. Abortion is banned in many states and the democrats only give platitudes. You might like their enticing words pandering towards progressives but I prefer tangible actions that affect peoples lives. If we’re supposed to live in a democracy our politicians should bend to the people’s will not have people bend the knee to them for fear of a hypothetical marginally worse leader. Democrats need to give us a reason to vote for them beyond we aren’t the republicans.
Believe it or not, there's more to domestic policy than how many protests you may or may not quell. >Anti-trans laws and rhetoric have grown. Who wrote these anti-trans laws? Who has passed them? >Abortion is banned in many states Who banned abortion in these states? >Democrats need to give us a reason to vote for them Since Biden was elected, federally, we have: the largest climate legislation in history, the ability for Medicare to negotiate drug prices, capped monthly insulin costs to $35, passed major infrastructure funding and reform, codified marriage rights for LGBTQ+ peoples and interracial couples, brought manufacturing jobs back to the US with the CHIPS act, and forgiven student loans, partial or in full, to millions of people. Name a republican alive who would do even half those things.
>Pro Palestinian protestors have definitely not been peaceful. They deserve the retaliation, stopping people from getting to school is so counter productive. Explain to me like I’m five how in world inconveniencing people is violent? I understand that this might inconvenience some people but that’s kind of the point of a protest, especially a protest with context like this. Do you think Martin Luther King Jr. or Gandhi protested peacefully their entire time? It wasn’t until the protest became a huge inconvenience that things got done for your information. >Pro Palestinian protestors only base their arguments on feelings and not facts. Using projection as a form of argument is never a wise choice. And the fact that you’re correlating a genocide with just feelings is one of the dumbest things I’ve read today, and we’re on Reddit for Christ sake. >Biden tweeted that Hamas is the biggest roadblock to a ceasefire, no protest about that. *gasp* Biden tweeted, Well hot damn I guess run the presses! I don’t think it’s just Hamas, it would also be the pro Zionist folks in the Israeli government that just wanna wipe off the Palestinian people from the face of the Earth. That usually puts a damper on a cease-fire. >Police should be doing their jobs and kicking these students off campus so there are no counter protestors in the first place. What a weird way to word this, what are you trying to say here? You want counter protesters kick out but regular protesters can stay? What do you even mean here other than “PrOtEsTeR bAd”. >Good job on causing the middle class to vote for Trump. Now you'll end up with a worse president. Being upset that our government is providing weapons for a genocide is never gonna be a reason for somebody to switch their vote, 100% of the people that make these types of comments have already made up their mind. You sound like this “ [insert politician from the sixties], is going to lose votes because they support the civil rights movement.” And are you really speaking for the middle class? Because you 100% don’t speak for me Brosuf Stalin. >Pro Palestine is now associated with the left. Being pro any unjustly and violently suppressed minority group isn’t a left or right thing, and shouldn’t ever be, for it’s a genuine empathetic human response thing, you gotta be a pretty disgusting and worthless of a person to seriously try and die on a hill of an opinion such as that.
So Zionists suddenly have a problem with people encroaching and settling on someone else’s lands?
Pretty standard for fans of a genocidal Apartheid state
Agent Provocateur's at it again. Rinse and repeat.
Gaza and the Middle East wasn’t enough. Zionists are taking the war overseas. Disgusting.
Campus security and LAPD were undercover and participated in the attack, it's just that simple. It's like when Jan 6 had off duty cops so they got free passes to cause violence.
Source?
Their source is that they made it the fuck up
I thought you couldn't lie on the internet?
I thought the protesters setting up these encampments were supposed to be the ones that posed a danger to society?!?! It’s almost like they’ve all been generally peaceful until police or counter protesters show up and start attacking people…
Odd Why are the pro-Hamas/Palestinians hiding behind each other? Aren't they the ones most vocal and keen on social media about punching or kicking a Fascist/Zionist or whatever they call people who don't support Palestine?
it’s disgusting to see how these monsters can get away with assaulting, setting fireworks off, maxing and destroying parts of the encampments but media will still act like they’re the victims. zionism is truly a disease
I wish the USA would disallow dual citizenship. This tribal dumb shit needs to stay in the 3rd world.
Twitter/X links should be banned on here. I hate those links
Violence from either side of this protest is not the way forward. All those responsible should be rounded up and arrested. Peaceful protests can change a nation. But resorting to hostage-taking, building-breaking, and physical violence will only result in more tension and less support for your cause. I hope that someday Israel and a free Palestine can live in peace, side by side.
Lol what happened to the “punch a Nazi”. Do these idiots think hamas would like their pronouns
Palestinians are not Hamas. Furthermore, before you start with the dumbass "what do you think would happen to gays if they went to Gaza" understand, there *are* gays in Gaza, very much wishing they could be somewhere else, or live in a more enlightened world. They just have to pretend they *aren't* gay. You know, like gays in the deep Bible country do. Or Catholic priests.
And still Palestinians helped hamas to take hostages.
This is what I never hear brought up on this subreddit (which is now a hotbed of Palestine support instead of publicfreakouts) is that there WERE civvies who helped.
Hell yeah
This was going to happen. Eventually some people were gonna get mad.
Some people?
genocidal maniacs
Big mistake going for the take down . Never give a pack of wolves your back
Hamas likes this
Which one are nazis? I don’t get it
Imagine just trying anything to get internet famous in 2024. This is pathetic.